Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Denon 3805 or Onkyo 901 or Integra DTR 7.4

As I posted before my father in law has the bug and he is basically letting me build a decent system for him. I have narrowed down my receiver choices to the 3 above. I'm looking for feedback here on which way I should go. Video up-conversion is a must and these 3 have it.....I wish my Onkyo 800 had it! I have no interest in Yamaha, Pioneer etc. I may look at a Sony ES or NAD but I'm not sure if they offer up-conversion within this price range.

I can actually get a sweet deal on a 989v2 but for some reason Onkyo's flagship doesn't up convert! Go figure.

As I have never owned any of these, I need some help here!

John in my view you should go with the 3805(or if you'd want to save some money, the 2805). All three would give him equally transparent amplification, but the 3805 would make things easier with automatic calibration and equalization(microphone about $60 extra with 3805, included with 2805). The 3805 has very powerful amps, which, as is typical, exceed their power rating.

I thought of the 2805 also but I want to keep him in Burr Brown DAC's. Being an old Parasound fan I have always loved Burr Brown DAC's. The 3805 has them, the 2805 does not. The 3805 also does 24/192 which is nice. I can grab one of these (3805) right now new in the box for $850.00US plus shipping and whatever customs get's me for.....but I'm such a huge Onkyo guy I'm having a hard time pulling the trigger!!

http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/pdfs/AVR%20New%20Model%20Chart%20052004.pdf

Doesn't the Integra use Wolfson DACS? I'd take them over Burr Browns everything else being equal.

when you say the onkyo doesnt up convert, to what degree are you talking of?? my 701 up converts up to s-video.. you have to get the 901 til it will up convert to component cables.

and the integra is just an up-scale version of the onkyo.. i believe the comparision was said, "like lexus is to toyota".. or "lincoln/mercury is to ford" same, but different.

good luck in your choice.. i would love the opportunity to just 'build' a system for someone.. as long as they had to mount the speakers.

bigjohn

Hi NeverHappy,

Get the Denon because should your father-in-law ever get 4-ohm speakers like the M80ti's (or other brands), the Denons will drive them, and the Onkyos are iffy in that department.

But don't let Denon's gimmicky auto-equalization sway your decision. It's okay to use the auto-calibration for setting channel levels but turn off the simplistic auto-EQ. The latter is the latest marketing gimmick offered by a number of manufacturers. At Axiom we continue to get inquiries from customers whose Yamahas or Denons or Pioneers equipped with auto-EQ erroneously signal that their speakers are "out of phase" when in fact they are correctly wired.

EQing a room is tremendously complex, and even if you set it up for one location, the EQ will apply only to that one position. Shift to another seat on the couch or chair, and everything changes. . .The potential of primitive auto-EQ is to undo all the good design and linear performance of fine speakers.

Regards,

Hey bigjohn, we are looking for up-conversion from SV to Component. My 800 doesn't do it but your right, the 901 does. I also agree with your thoughts on Integra and Onkyo. The Integra has been dropped from my list as of today for that very reason.

2x6spds, curious as to why you think that. I have seen several bench test reports on Burr Brown vs Wolfson and the Burr's always hold there own. I'm not an expert by any stretch on DAC's so I value any info you have.

In reply to:

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and the Onkyos are iffy in that department.

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Hey hey hey! As the proud owner of almost every Axiom speaker made and who also uses a Onkyo I resent that comment! :-) All kidding aside, yeah I thought of that to. My 800 did a great job of pushing my 80's but it only sounded decent to a certain db. After that my trusty Onkyo ran out of gas. I only use it as a pre now anyway. I did hook up my 50's to it once and it seemed to do fine with them.

I can get a Denon AVR-985 new in the box. I guess it's the same as the 2805. Anybody know anything about this model? It will save me around $200.00US plus taxes, customs etc if I go with the 985.

Yes John, in my previous reply I probably should have said 2805/985. The 985 is a model in Denon's "specialty audio" line which is sold at a different group of retailers at a slightly lower price. It's exactly identical to the 2805(but only available in silver). The best deal for shipment to Canada that I'm aware of is this , which should make an outstanding buy.

So far as the DAC discussion goes, this is something that was useful many years ago, but as Alan and others have pointed out, DACs are now a mature technology and should be of no concern to the consumer. Equipment makers have a choice of excellent DACs available at low cost(as little as $1 apiece in OEM quantities) from suppliers such as Analog Devices, Cirrus Logic, Texas Instruments(Burr-Brown), Wolfson and others. They pick what meets their specs at the best price they can negotiate and there's no audible difference, although slight measurable differences still exist. The 2805/985 in particular uses the very fine Analog Devices AD1835A codec(an acronym for COder/DECoder, combining both ADCs and DACs on one chip), which you can see described here on the data sheet.

JohnK, thanks for the post. I was not aware that the 985 and 2805 are basically the same. I have seen a few posts that said it but I was not positive. I'm lost as to why Denon does this. Sells the same unit under various model numbers.

So I guess now I need to look a little harder at the 985/2805 vs the 3805,

Does the 3805 or 2805 for that matter hold level settings for each input? For example if I set the sub to +2 on the DVD input and say -2 on the CD input does it store those settings or does one setting do all inputs like my current Onkyo?

Thanks again!

I found the answer to the question I posted above. Yes it does in case anybody cares.....and I went with the 3805. Picked it up about an hour ago. I'm keeping it for a few day's just to see what all the fuss is about with this thing. Who knows if I like it I may just pass along my Onkyo to the father-inlaw! :-)

.........and I almost forgot, thanks for all the feedback folks!

neverhappy-

alan is right concerning the onkyos pushing the M80's. the 80's are a 4ohm load, so the onkyos would have a little problem.. and my 701 gets pretty hot as it is.

and not that the integras are bad, but just a higher priced version..

hope you enjoy your denon, and good luck in building the rest of the system.

bigjohn

Well I got the 3805 hooked up. No other amps. All my other stuff is sitting on the side watching! :-) First thoughts on the 3805 are not to bad. The set-up menu was a little odd for me with all the surround A & B and then back stuff but I think I got worked out. One thing it does way better then my Onkyo is with 5 channel stereo.

One thing I do not like at all is what Alan was talking about. The auto set on the room EQ is to me a joke. You set it all up only to move 3 feet over and everything sounds out of whack....but....gotta go time to play some more.

All my Onkyo people HELP ME! The more I play with this thing the more I don't want to pass it over to my father-inlaw. What has me is this upconverting of Super Video to Component. Dam that works nice! Also the power! This thing has just a little more control over my 50's then the Onkyo. I have been sitting here all day with 2 Stratos amps sitting beside me and I have zero desire to hook them back up.

I'm using an Onk 797, but I'm gonna be no help at all. I've been coveting a 3805 since it came out. It's just not in the budget. Do you notice a difference in timbre (warmer, brighter, etc.) with the Denon as opposed to the Onkyo? I don't really subscribe to the idea that receivers sound different, but I have an open mind, and thought I would ask if you felt you noticed any difference.

The Denon has a setting for tone defeat. With that bypassed and there silly room EQ off they sound more or less the same. With tone on and everything at 0, the Denon is brighter. There is no doubt there but it's not a huge change but I hear it. The big change is when you get going on the volume, the Denon has far more control and composure.

This is a nice unit. It does almost everything well. I have been playing with it for about 7 hours now. Is it heads and tails above my 800?............no. It has more power and a few more bells and whistles but the Onkyo holds its own. Biggest compliment I pay the 3805 is exactly what I said above. I could run this all on it's own and be very happy. That includes music and movies. I could then dump a total of 5 other amps (And some of these are very highly regarded) and pay some bills and buy more speakers or something! :-)......what to do?, what to do?

2 day's later and I'm still running the Denon on it's own. No other fancy amps, no nothing. I think I will hang on to this one!

It's good to hear that you like the 3805. I have a 3805s on order so it's nice to hear a positive opinion, expecially from someone who's "never happy". Whenever I buy something and have to wait for it I always second-guess my purchase a bit.

Pete

In regard to the DAC subject that was brought up: can you tell the difference between a 24/96 DAC and a 24/192 DAC?

Honestly, yes a little. Is it night and day?.........nope.

Hey NeverHappy,

I read in a review of the 3805, that you can bi-amp your fronts using the the two rear-surrounds. (If you only have a 5.1 set-up going anyway, if you have 7.1 then you can't)

I think I read that you had a pair of 80's. Have you tried running two amps to each of those 80's? I think that would be 240 watts with the 3805!

If so, how did it work/sound?

Yes you can do it but I ditched the 80's as they didn't do it for me. I'm running a set of 50's up front now that sound awesome with the 3805...........but you can't biwire them. Axiom if your reading this, make the 50's with bi-wire connections!