Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo The Age Old Subwoofer Question

I have owned a pair of M22ti's for six months now, and I still get a grin from ear to ear everytime I sit down to listen to them (which is usually nightly). I knew when I bought the speakers, however, that I would want a subwoofer at some point, and now I am now making a final decision on what to buy.

My system includes a Denon AVR-1804 receiver, and a Sony DVP-NC665P 5 disc DVD player.

I have generally narrowed down the subwoofer search to two models: the Axiom EP175 and the HSU STF-2. I have a smaller living room 14'x12'x8' and will very likely be forced to place the sub towards the front of the room instead of beside the sofa on the back wall. I am mostly a music listener, and so good punch from a bass drum is more important than dinosaur footsteps, but I don't mind the deep bass either.

Now for the question... Is the HSU actually better, and if so will it work placed at the front of my room instead of to the side of the couch as Dr. HSU recommends? For those who have heard either product, are you satisfied? Any comments are appreciated.

sub placement can be tricky, but there is really no problem with it being in the front.

as far as your sub choice, the axiom subs are good, fine subs.. the SVS and HSU's are considered to be a little better.. on specs alone, the STF-2 should perform better than the EP125. if you have the budget, i would say get the STF-2, and dont look back.

you should be more than pleased with that decision!

bigjohn

I have never heard any of the Axiom subs so I cannot make a comparison. I do, however own the HSU STF-2, and my room is 11.5x18x8. The STF-2 does a fantastic job for me. I don't think it's actually happened, but a number of times it's felt like my pant legs are blowing in the wind.

You can buy a HSU direct from them, or, if you have a CompUSA store near you that stocks them, you can pick one up $50 cheaper than you can get it from HSU. Check here to see if there is a store near you that stocks them.

One thing. CompUSA is new to carrying electronics. They do NOT do a good job of demonstrating this subwoofer. People have complained that they usually have them badly placed, on one shelf, under another, and if you listen to the STF-2 in the store, under those conditions, you probably will not be impressed.

I have my STF-2 in the corner at the front of my room. One of the things you should try, in addition to the sub crawl, is placing the sub in the corner up close to the side wall, port facing toward the front wall, and experiment with moving the sub along the side wall away from the front wall, an inch or two at a time. I've seen it recommended that somewhere between 6 and 18 inches from the front wall can produce satisfactory results.

Also HSU has a Product Recommendation and Support Form, where you can describe your room and they will recommend a sub position. Calling them on the phone can get you the same thing.

Thank you, for the response, in this case the STF-2 at $399 would actually be cheaper than the Axiom EP175 at $499, so I think that is the direction I am leaning unless anyone has a reason to prefer a forward firing sub over the downward firing HSU model.

I can also easily recommend the STF-2. I've had mine for about two weeks now and it sounds both great for movies and music. I have no regrets and for $349 you can't beat it. I also wouldn't use their website to verify if the nearest store to you has any in stock. I went to the website and it said that every CompUSA in PHX was out of stock. I stopped by my local CompUSA for the hell of it and they had two in stock. I would call ahead.

I have the JBL PB12 which I picked up at an established online store for about $250 smackaroos. Nothing has happened to my pants, but I saw the drapes move a couple times. I have no complaints with it. It works well and has lights. It fills in the bottom end with the 22s nicely. The best thing about it is that it does all this without haaving cost me $400-$600.

The STF-2 is a good subwoofer, but if you really like your bass I would look for something more.

The bass won't knock you down (which is what I am looking for) but you can feel it in your chest.

I own the STF-2 and I wish I had gone for one of SVS's bad boys.

One mans opinion.If he's satisfied with it then it is good enough.

I purchased the STF-2 on Friday night at the local CompUSA. They didn't have a demo set up, so I purchased it without listening to it, but I was fine with that since I had been prepared to order it online prior to hearing that they sold them at CompUSA.

It has taken me a while to try to set the sub up perfectly, and I am not even sure that I have acheived the correct placement yet. When I have the volume set to match the speakers (M22ti) then the sub lacks kick and punch. If I turn it up more, then it sound to boomy and overpowers the fronts. Any suggestions? My living room is small (14x12x8) and the sub is in the front corner... only about 12 inches from the front wall and about 2 feet from the side wall. Is there an extended break in period for these subs?

Mine sounded good out of the box. I set all of the speakers to small and set the crossover at 80 hz. I have the sub volume at just a hair under or over the first major white line before 12 o'clock (approximately 9 o'clock). For rap where the bass is way overexaggerated I put it a hair below 9 o'clock and for most other music I put it a little above. You would be surprised what a difference a slight adjustment makes.

i also believe along with adjusting the volume dial, you need to turn the crossover dial up to its highest setting. that is, if you are gonna manage the bass with the crossover on the receiver.. that way the two crossover points arent interfering with each other.

hope you can get it right!

bigjohn

bigjohn
Do you ever make it up to the Dallas area?
Bray

Hey Jarrett,

I have the 1804 too, but don't yet have the sub.

A couple of observations on setup, though. You might look around here for "calibration" threads, or those including the phrase "SPL meter" (I'm too lazy to do the search for you right now - sorry). I bought the Sound and Vision setup DVD and am happy; others have Avia or Digital Video Essentials and seem pleased, too.

Now, buying a SPL meter and setup disk is a good way to go, but I can understand you being reluctant to spend the ~$70 if you have neither of those things already.

HOWEVER, you should still go through the on-screen Denon setup stuff. When you go through it the first time, I would use the sub volume to do the setup and leave the 1804 sub output at 0db. Doing it that way will allow you to use the Denon sub adjustments (by 1 db up or down) to tweak as you listen in the future without having to muck around with the sub volume.

Also, be sure you have the sub crossover all the way "out"; since you are running the sub from the "LFE Out" of the Denon rather than through the speaker-level outputs (right?), you don't need to utilize the sub crossover.

What kind of material is causing you to perceive boominess? I am not among those that subscribe to "break in" of the equipment, but I do think that your perception of the bass will undoubtedly change over the short term.

Likewise, the suggestions to move the sub around, even by inches, could help tame standing waves within your room.

Tom,

Thanks for the post. I do not have a SPL meter, and you are right, my wife would balk at the $70 cost of the meter and test disc. She has been supportive of the system so I can't fault her on this.

I have gone through the Denon on screen set up... I have it set to crossover at 80hz (crossover turned off on sub) and have set the M22's to small. As far as the boominess is concerned, I don't know how to adequtely describe it. Its just not quite as razor sharp as I would have assumed it would be from all of the reviews. Maybe I have no conception of what reasonably priced bass sounds like. (I used to work around a VERY serious mix suite with very nice earth shattering bass, and I suppose I took it for granted due to a lack of reference). The HSU is not horrible, don't get me wrong. It's deep that's for sure, its just not uber crisp. Take Norah Jones first album for instance, on "Lonestar" or "One Flight Down" the bass just seems to lag a little and come across as muddy in comparison to the way the rest of the frequencies sound through the M22's.

On Ben Fold's Rocking the Suburbs album, track 6 "The Ascent of Stan," there is a TON of low bass, I mean I didn't know that there was bass that low on this album, I was amazed, but at the same time it seems that I had to crank the sub too far up to be able to enjoy it... by crank I only mean maybe 12 o'clock on the dial.

I think I just need to play around with it some more. My only fear being that the Axiom EP175 would have been a bit quicker and more responsive due to being a front firing sub. Of course it would not have played as low either, so its a Catch-22. Does anyone else having this lag problem with their STF-2? Or is this simply a case of proper placement?

Sounds like you've got everything pretty much covered. I suspect your level of satisfaction with the Hsu relates directly to your expectations from your previous experience. I have read many opinions similar to yours; some people are underwhelmed with new subwoofers because they have grown accustomed to bass profiles that are either somewhat exagerrated or unattainable in a home environment.

My sense is that the form factor alone (front-firing v. down-firing) should not make a discernable performance difference.

You could just step up to a pair of SVS cylinders I think the Axiom EP-350 B-stock for $558 including shipping is a pretty attractive option, too. When it comes to subwoofers, there really is no substitute to size - of driver, amplifier and enclosure. There are a lot of happy STF-2 owners, though, so you probably just need to continue to play with placement options and other settings, and give it a bit of time.

jh20477,

I understand the reticence to purchase the SPL meter and the disk due to the cost but I can say that both are a worthwhile purchase if you want to get the most out of your home theater.

That said, you may want to check with some friends that are into HT that you know around town and see if someone has both the meter and the disk that may be willing to lend to you for a few days. Some of the video stores will rent these disks...

A question I have is regarding whether or not you have performed the "sub crawl"...ie. putting the sub in the sweet spot and then playing a bass heavy segment on repeat and crawl around the perimeter of the room to find the best location for the sub...the best location will be the one where the bass sounds best / loudest at the location you are in in the room when you hear it. Try placing the sub there, re-calibrate and see if you get a better response.

Again, trying to calibrate (or re-calibrate by ear) will not get you optimal response...you will need the meter and disk for that...the Sound & Vision Home Theater Set up Disk is approximately $15 at Fry's and the meter at Radio Shack is less than $40...although most prefer the AVIA disk which is $40 or more...depending on where you get it.

Don't give up, dude. Although I have the SVS 20-39 PC+, I did not get the best sound out of it initially until I did the above and some additional tweaking...

My .02,

WhatFurrer

So now after a number of days with the new subwoofer, I think I have gotten it dialed in. I have to say that it sounds pretty good now. After listening more and more I found that the proper level to blend with the M22's was really just above 9 o'clock on the volume dial, a bit lower than I had originally had it set. This seems to take out any additional boominess and doesn't overpower the main speakers. I would have to say that for my ears the "break in" period was very real. The sub sounds much different now than it did the first hour out of the box, and that is a good thing. I am sure that most of that change is due to dialing it in, but I really think it has just gotten to flex its muscle a little too and now is more responsive. Thanks to everyone for their comments and help...