Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Setting up new HT, new to A/V looking for advice

Hello everyone, I'm pretty new to A/V so please bare with me if I sound out of place. I've been reading alot of reviews on the Axiom and they're pretty impressive for the price. My concern now is what speakers to get for the room dimensions that they will be in. The HT will be in a fairly large area. I will describe the dimensions now as accurately as I can.

The room is about 13X28. If you picture the room as:
..........N
..........28
W13..........13E
..........28
..........S

And I will refer to placement in terms of NWES etc.

The screen will go on the North wall. To the right of the screen on the North wall is a 3ft opening into a large kitchen den area. On the SE corner are a set of stairs going up to the second floor facing East. On the SW corner is an opening South that is the front door and a 8X6 Foyer. The ceiling is vaulted all the way to the Second floor ceiling so it's pretty high....30ft? The second floor has a balcony on the East side.

Sorry to be so detailed but from my readings it seems that room layout and speaker placement is essential to get good sound. Now considering I will be facing the wider wall and will be sitting about 9-10' from the screen. What is the best option in terms of front speakers. I like the reviews on the M80's but I'm afraid of it being "too much speaker". Is there such a thing?

My current proposed system:
Panasonic TH-42PWD6UY Plasma
Denon AVR-3805
Pioneer DV-578a
Axiom:
M80ti
VP150
QS8

I'm thinking that I might be able to hold off on the sub. Some people tell me that it's not needed for most applications. What is your input. Thanks in advance.

Welcome, fortuneman!

I assume there is a good reason you are going to watch across the short axis of the room, but I think putting the TV on the east or west wall and viewing across the long axis would yield better results.

At the distance of 9 feet, I'm thinking you may find it difficult to position the M80's to get optimal sound. I have my M60's about 9-10 feet away, and they are about 8 feet apart, and it works pretty good. The 60's are known for being more forgiving with their positioning than the 80's.

I would not put off the sub too long, as it is pretty essential for a satisfactory home theater experience, IMHOP.

It would be a good idea for you to send the above message to Alan Lofft, Axiom's resident guru for his advice, as he knows more about this than the rest of us combined.

Mark

For real HT fun and jollies the sub is essential. In a room that size you may want to consider buying two subs (or a monster like the SVS PSB2). The M80s would probably work for you, though you may be sitting kinda close.
I have M60s in a room slightly larger than that but with 9' ceilings and they're plenty. You will need some serious subwoofers, though to fill that space.
If it were me I would get M60s, QS8s, the VP150 and an SVS 20-39 PC+.
Happy shopping!

I would love to place it on the east wall but a window there takes up half the wall....but now that you got me thinking....maybe I can get a floor mount for the screen...I was originally going to wall mount it but didn't have enough wall there.

There are huge windows in the NW corner. One on the W wall thats about 6ft wide and one directly adjacent to it on the N wall about 3-4ft wide. My NW corner is just a big window.

If you're going with a projector you could get 3 M60s across the front and be pretty damn happy, I think.

Hehe, maybe...but this whole east wall idea already has me running in that direction. I think there's a perfect setup for the HT that way. I have a ledge created by the balcony thats probably about 12' high and about 15+' back from the east wall. Looks like a great placement for the QS8's. Thoughts? Thanks mhorgel for helping me think "outside the box".

Te

Hi Te - welcome. I'll throw in my $0.02 here, and agree with what BigWill and mhorgel have already said.

Axiom has stated that the M60 and M80 are sonically very similar, and that the advantage of the M80 is in increased power handling and higher SPL (plays louder). Some users have reported having greater difficulty in positioning the M80 to their satisfaction. I own M60's in a room similar to yours and have never felt like I am missing anything.

Definitely get a good sub for that room. For great home theatre, you will want one. And given the size of the room, music will be much more satisfying, too.

I had trouble with placement in my house too. What I decided to do was somewhat non-traditional. To get a decent viewing position along the long axis, I put the TV in the window bay on the street-side of the house. Now, that window was only interesting to the dog anyway, because looking at the street activity in suburbia is not exactly high culture. So, we always had the drapes closed anyway. This is not a great photo. Ignore the clutter and the light fixture obscuring the upper right corner.



I'm pleased with the arrangement, so wanted to encourage you to continue to examine that "East Wall" scenario.

Thanks for all the great input...you guys are fantastic here . So my only other concern is with low volume audio on the M80's. Will they sound as good with the volume low? Or will they need to always be a certain level for decent sound? This is more for music audio.

Te

Te, I'm sure that the scientists among us will be able to cite some psychoacoustic paper on the topic. My understanding is that people perceive "louder" as "better" up to a certain volume point. That concept is not specific to any particular brand or model of speaker. The M80 should sound as full and rich as anything else at lower volumes; they don't NEED to be driven to high volumes to sound good, but they CAN be. My experience (not science!) is that the M60's sound very rich and detailed at low to moderate volume levels, and that they also can provide very satisfying, large-room-filling sound.

There ARE good people here - people I now call friends. You should stick around and keep us posted. I'd love to see some pictures of your room, and I'm sure you have expertise in many areas that we can all learn from.

Te, This could just be me, but because I had lesser speakers before I got my M60s, I had fallen into the habit of cranking up the volume in order to be able to hear what I wanted to hear from the speakers, i.e. balanced lows, mids, and highs.

Because of the accuracy of the M60s, I don't have to do that. I can play them at relatively low volumes, and be completely satisfied.

In fact, should you get Axioms, when they first arrive, I would recommend being careful not to crank them too loudly at first, just to give yourself a chance to acclimate yourself to their sound. They're really quite amazing. Of course, I'm a tad biased.

Yup, it's amazing how much detail my M50s have at low volumes. Even when the 525 is at -50, I still hear things I've never heard before.

Well I took some pics so you guys can take a look:

LIVING ROOM:

This is the living room "east wall". As you can see there are big windows in the corner. I had an idea that I can get some thick drapes and pull them closed when we're watching a movie or something.

LIVING ROOM w/ FOYER:

This is a shot from the 2nd floor of the corner with the foyer.

LIVING ROOM REAR:

This is shot looking back from the front. You can see the opening into the kitchen. The side of the opening with the light switch is where the balcony starts right above this picture.

BALCONY:

This is the second floor as viewed from the living room. I think this is a good place to mount the QS8's.

Let me know what you think.

Te

In reply to:

---

I would love to place it on the east wall but a window there takes up half the wall....but now that you got me thinking....maybe I can get a floor mount for the screen...I was originally going to wall mount it but didn't have enough wall there.

There are huge windows in the NW corner. One on the W wall thats about 6ft wide and one directly adjacent to it on the N wall about 3-4ft wide. My NW corner is just a big window.

---

I have a portable floor projection screen and it goes over big windows and nicely stores away under the curtains. I also am sitting 9'-10' from the screen. In short distances make sure you projector can project a big enough image at that close distance. Some projector have a far throw. You need a short throw in close spaces.



check out my setup:
http://www.spacelofts.com/h30/

well, i will take first crack since no one else has..BTW, great room, i would guess you have new carpet being that everyone had to take off their shoes

man, that is an odd shaped room to try and do anything with.. you either got doorways or windows on every wall where you could put a TV.. not to mention, once you do find a spot for the TV, you have to come up with a good way to place the furniture around it. the best scenario i could think of, would be to place the entertainment center on that left wall as you come in the foyer door.. i know it will be partly blocking that big window, but thats about the only good place with respect to still having to set up furniture. then i would place the surrounds above the two doors(the one to the right of the stairs and the kitchen door).. if you try and place them up on that balcony, that seems too high to me.. then, your couch or main listening area, could be just in front of the kitchen door, towards the TV..

there, thats my 2 cents.. i could be way off, but thats the best guess for how the pics looked to me.. have fun, and to answer an earlier question.. the M60's with a good sub, will fill that place just fine.. you would be surprised as to just how loud they can go.. also, be sure to put down some sort of thick carpet to help with sound reflection on the hardwood.. you might get some bad echoing if you dont.. you dont have to cover the whole floor, just the section inbetween the TV and your sitting area..

thats about it.. good luck

bigjohn

PS- SATURNS POST WAS NOT THERE WHEN I STARTED MINE!! I DONT WANT ANYONE THINKING THAT I THOUGHT HIS POST DIDNT COUNT AS A "CRACK"..

I'm sooooooooo insulted. You must weapons of mass destruction.

Thanks for the advice about the carpet. I guess we just need to see how things will sound once we get all of our furniture and stuff in. About the QS8's, how high would you recommend that they be? And which direction should they point? I can possibly hang them down from under the balcony, essentially the ceiling part.

you could do that, but then they would essentially become 'rears' instead of surrounds.. you want the surrounds to be about a foot infront/behind the listening position to the sides. there is no set height for them to be.. usually, anywhere from level with your ears, to upwards of 3-4 feet above your ears is fine.. thats why i was saying if the TV is on that wall with the big window, and the couch is just in front of the kitchen door, then just above, or maybe a little infront of those doors would be good.

i hope i am saying this in a way that makes sense? putting the QS8's under the lip of the balcony wont be horrible, but certainly not the best either.

keep in mind, you can only work with what you got, so dont stress over it too hard.

bigjohn

I see what you're saying now, so something like this:
SP - Speaker
PL - Plasma
C - Couch
S - Surround

SP............S

PL...........C

SP............S


BTW - I think I've decided that I want a SVS PB2-ISD to compliment my system What do you think?


Te

EXACTLY.. you could even put the surrounds in front of the couch a little like this..

SP..............S

PL...............C

SP..............S

either way is fine.. and the PB2-ISD should be enough bass to loosen the boards on that hardwood floor. i have never heard one, but i would bet that it will be everything you could ask for..

bigjohn

Te,

In my own learning process, I've collected a bunch of tutorials related to this hobby. Here are a couple that address speaker placement.

Where am I supposed to put all these speakers?

Setting Up Your Home Theater

And here is a comprehensive guide which will probably answer most any question you may have.
A Primer for Home Theater Newcomers
It's a couple of years old, but everything pretty much still applies. If you have questions about something not covered here, let me know, and I'll see if I've got another tutorial which will satisfy.

Wow, Jack, those are some good links! I didn't get anything done at work today. Thanks!

You're welcome Josh. If you boss catches you, blame it all on me!

Ain't it amazin' what one can find on the internet?

In case you couldn't find what you were looking for:
Home Theater Articles

Jack,

Those links are great . Will definitely help me out alot. So I've decided to go with the M80's , part of the "must have more power" in me. Besides...we will be moving again in the future so we'll probably have a bigger house to fill. In fact I just put the order in yesterday. I ordered the M80's and the VP150's from the outlet and the QS8's new. (I couldn't wait 8 weeks for delivery). So once things get here and setup I'll take some pics and let you guy know how it looks. The Denon 3805 is already on it's way....just need a sub now . Still leaning towards the SVS PB2-ISD

That SVS SS sub, available in any number of wood finishes, would sure look pretty in that room.