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#53509 - 09/14/04 07:44 PM Re: Holy crap
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16273
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Saw it, maybe even in the theaters. It seemed plausible at the time, now even more so.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#53510 - 09/14/04 07:50 PM Re: Holy crap
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16273
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I agree. I wasn't going to link to an article I read recently, for fear that 'certain people' would slam it as an extremely biased, Bush-bashing op-ed piece; however, now that I know that 'certain people' don't even read links that are longer than a few paragraphs, I should be safe.

Why Al-Qaeda is Winning

I found it to be rather insightful and helped give some history and background to the forces we are up against. This is also where myu question about who you think Osama would vote for came from.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#53511 - 09/14/04 11:20 PM Re: Holy crap
Michael_A Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/07/04
Posts: 418
In reply to:

Who do you think bin Laden wants to win the election in November?



In order:

1 - Ralph Nader - He could blow up Americans until the cows come home without any retaliation at all from Nader.
(As long as osama provided the suicide bombers with OSHA approved hearing protection for their missions. If he didn't, all bets are off. Ralph might nuke him. )

2 - Kerry - He could get in between 2 and 5 attacks on the US during the 18 month period that Kerry would spend begging the French for permission to retaliate with a "surgical strike".

3 - Bush - Attack the US, lose a country that used to be a home base, as well as the hospitality of the biggest bully in the middle east. Even I think this option stinks.
_________________________
M- M60s/VP150/QS8s/SVS PC-Ultra/HK630 Sit down. Shut up. Listen.

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#53512 - 09/15/04 02:18 AM Re: Holy crap
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16273
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Michael,

Do you actually believe Kerry would wait for permission from other countries before retaliating against perpetrators of another attack on our country? That's ludicrous.

The invasion of Iraq and the invasion of Afghanistan -- you know, the country that was ruled by the Taliban and called Osama bin Laden a "guest of the Afghan people" -- were done under entirely different circumstances. A country that has been visciously attacked should not require permission to retaliate against a regime that willingly harbored the prime suspect. Invading Iraq, however, was not retaliation and even Bush needed "permission" before proceeding. This permission came from the countries that allied themselves with us. We would not have gone into Iraq if we had to do it totally alone.

So if you say Kerry would wait to ask for permission before retaliating after an attack on our soil, at least get your events straight.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#53513 - 09/15/04 07:18 AM Re: Holy crap
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
Good NEWS !!!! We finally have an admission from the LEFT that we did NOT fight in IRAQ alone !! For about 18 months now, that has been the LEFT's rallying cry !

PMB - Welcome to our side...


_________________________
Remember, this is a HOBBY

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#53514 - 09/15/04 09:30 AM Re: Holy crap
ringmir Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/03/04
Posts: 619
Loc: boston
I generally stay away from the Iraq war issue because I'll be honest and say up front my position is not "well formed." But I'll give a shot at explaining it.

First, I think Iraq is not a better place now than it was before the war, but I think it will become a much better place within the next several years. I find it hard to believe that these people will reject democracy. I think if we can succesfully aid in the supression of any attempted "military coup"-like uprisings in the years to come, the situation will resolve itself well. Similarly, I think the US is not significantly safer now than it was, but there is the potential for it to become so in the next several years assuming a democratic Iraq is succesfull. *To me* the facts are:

1) The world as a whole does not agree that we made the right descision. Whether or not this matters is subjective.

2) If we can succesfully establish a stable democratic government in Iraq, nobody will debate the "correctness" of our actions ten years from now. (This includes France and Russia, but not North Korea...)

3) Either president, Kerry or Bush, will handle the next four years of presidency well with respect to the situation in Iraq. They will do it quite differently however with respect to foreign policy.

3a) Bush will continue to "penalize" countries that opposed the war by trying to block them out of potential commercial endeavors in Iraq as long as it is within his power to do so (or whatever other methods he can utilize to this end.) His thinking is, if you're not with us in the war on terror, then you're against us. To Bush the world is much more black and white than to Kerry. This may result in greater US benefit by way of stronger US ties in the democratic Iraq down the road a ways. In the short term it will be a continued strain on foreign relations, "world US image", as well as financially. (Although the resulting tax burden on US citizens will be significantly less than the tax burden on Greeks from hosting the Olympics...)

3b) Kerry will loosen up this policy and let in aid wherever offered. He'll do this to lighten the US load in Iraq, even if it means giving up potentially lucrative contracts to countries initially opposed to the war. This will result in a less significant US handhold in a democratic Iraq down the road, but will more immediately improve foreign relations and lighten the US financial load. I also think that "the world" has a bad enough view of Bush that "world US image" will immediately increase simply by Kerry being elected.

So then I have to ask myself, which of these two policies is right? Honestly I don't think I am qualified to decide. To me, this election is *NOT* really about the situation in Iraq, or about the war on terror. I firmly believe that both candidates are capable of handling that situation well. Nobody, democrat or republican, is going to say "Gee, they (terrorists) showed that they are willing to indiscriminantly kill thousands of people, but we shouldn't go after them by whatever means necessary because the world might not agree." To me this election is about domestic policy issues, and I know very clearly where my vote lies on those issues.
_________________________
[black]-"The further we go and older we grow, the more we know, the less we show."[/black]

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#53515 - 09/15/04 03:10 PM Re: Holy crap
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
craigsub, I'm surprised that you would consider zero responsibility on the part of either parent a valid position. You are directly responsible for the existence of that person on this planet. Perhaps you were a bit "naive" to believe the young lady, but that doesn't change your obligations.
If we would like to shrink the gov't, and the public's dependence on it, individuals need to accept responsibility for their own actions - even mistakes such as your own (happened to my little brother the exact same way at the same age).

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#53516 - 09/15/04 03:17 PM Re: conspiracy theory
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5214
Loc: Los Angeles
Hmmmmm

Anyone seen this before? I'd never even heard of this particular conspiracy before.



_________________________
"A nation cannot prosper long, when it favors only the prosperous." -President Barack Obama

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#53517 - 09/15/04 03:28 PM Re: Holy crap
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
BigWill, I am getting used to you being wrong about me. Go look again, I PAID $200,000, so tell me how I shirked my responsibility.

AND... Nice to know that being lied to makes someone "naive"

What I am saying (perhaps I need to use smaller words) is that we live in a society that exercises selective assignment of responsibility. According to guys like you...

1. If she had killed the fetus, that is ok.

2. If she Has the child, and wants to keep the child, that is ok.

3. If I voice an opinion that since it was HER choice to keep the child, that I should have the same "right" to rid myself of responsibility that she had, that is bad.
_________________________
Remember, this is a HOBBY

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#53518 - 09/15/04 04:17 PM Re: Holy crap
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
craigsub, anything that will improve your communication skills would be welcome - as it seems you are frequently misunderstood.

"What I am saying (perhaps I need to use smaller words) is that we live in a society that exercises selective assignment of responsibility. According to guys like you...

1. If she had killed the fetus, that is ok.

2. If she Has the child, and wants to keep the child, that is ok.

3. If I voice an opinion that since it was HER choice to keep the child, that I should have the same "right" to rid myself of responsibility that she had, that is bad."

It is ridiculous to assert that a man should have the power to tell a woman to have an abortion. It is equally ridiculous to assert that the father of a child should have the option to financially support the child or not.

You were correct earlier to state that your "choice" came at the moment of conception.

BTW, did you remember to calculate lost interest into that $200K? Your actual cost might be significantly higher.

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