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#53519 - 09/15/04 04:35 PM Re: Holy crap
twodan19 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 624
Loc: Pembroke, Massachusetts
bigwill, if i understand him, there should have been options:
1. we screwed up, have the kid, we both pay
2. abort, split cost of procedure
3. she chooses to have child, he doesn't, she pays
4. he chooses to have child, she doesn't he pays
craig, did i understand you to mean something like this?
dan

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#53520 - 09/15/04 04:52 PM Re: Holy crap
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
twodan, You are right, with the addition that this argument is centered around the concept that everyone in society should be treated equally by laws.

In this case, people are not treated equally. Men are treated differently than women. For example, Why is it that the woman automatically gets the child ? All the man does is pay... with no rights applied.

It is the LAW ... and I abided by the law...

But if we are going to treat EVERYONE the same... then it needs to be across the board.




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#53521 - 09/15/04 04:55 PM Re: Holy crap
twodan19 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 624
Loc: Pembroke, Massachusetts
craig, be thankful you don't live in massachusetts. every divorce ends with the guy getting screwed here. didn't happen to me, but again the laws tend to be tipped in favor of the female.

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#53522 - 09/15/04 04:55 PM Re: Holy crap
Huffer Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: Winnipeg
Craigsub, I totally agree with you on this one.
You know what a feminist is? A woman who wants equal rights until it's not in her best interest.

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#53523 - 09/15/04 05:15 PM Re: Holy crap
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
Twodan, The situation I was in was not even a divorce, but knowing Massachusetts as I do, I can easily imagine how anti-male the laws are there... we call your state "The People's Republic of Massachusetts"...
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#53524 - 09/15/04 05:18 PM Re: Holy crap
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
I guess it's my turn to say, "Wow".


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#53525 - 09/15/04 05:19 PM Re: Holy crap
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
Huffer ... My lovely wife, accomplished attorney turned homemaker/office manager for my company, would agree with you.

She has been to a couple support hearing with me, and got to see first hand the treatment I received. When the "case manager" referred to me as the "rapist" I thought my wife was going to punch her...
_________________________
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#53526 - 09/15/04 05:23 PM Re: Holy crap
md55 Offline
local

Registered: 05/20/03
Posts: 284
Loc: Nevada City, CA
I believe we need to include the understanding that equal treatment under the law also requires equivalent fact sets. Some circumstances are inherently unequal. What a mother and a father provide a child are not identical or interchangable. The mother might claim that while all the effort you had to make was to pay for support while she spend years of time and effort raising the child and perhaps making other sacrifices. The child might ask where was the equal treatment of growing up without his physical father?

I believe your choice in the matter came in the moments leading up to conception. After that there is no real equality in the facts. The judge has a duty to society and the dependant child to do what is in his or her power to make the best of a less than ideal situation. At that point the judge probably doesn’t really care who thinks the situation is fair other than the child, who most likely never will.

Most of us who have been to court have been disabused of the idea that what happens there is very often fair. I’m sure it felt very unfair to have been lied to and perhaps used in the first place. One of the great hazards of youth is we rarely understand the potential consequences of seemingly trivial acts, even when we think we are acting responsibly.

Under the circumstances I think you deserve acknowledgment for having supported the child financially.

_________________________
Mark

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#53527 - 09/15/04 05:24 PM Re: Holy crap
TurboDog1 Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 342
I don't meant to quash the child support responsibility and rights dialog, so please continue.

On an international front, what is everyone's thoughts on this story? It looks like the Russians are getting in bed with the Israelis on the terrorism front. I'm not sure how I feel about this.....Is this a good thing to have the Russians getting into the battle?.....Is this a dangerous thing to have another power insert itself into the Israeli/Muslim conflict, one that might not be as conservative in it's handling of it? We have for a long time kept Israel at our side, but at a distance. There's a part of me that's concerned that this relationship could lead to some added animosity towards Israel should the Russians in turn go and beat the crap out of the Chechians (sp?)....which could eventually lead to some larger conflicts.

This is a pretty complicated issue w/ different influences and dynamics, so I'm not sure if I know enough to see what's going to result. It just gave me a minute of pause.

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#53528 - 09/15/04 05:51 PM Re: Holy crap
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
MD - There is no judge involved... It is a case worker, or in Pa... they are called a "Master" ... They do not care about anything other than paternity and how much they will order the man to pay. Period.

There is no mechanism to ensure that even one penny goes to the child. The "EXCUSE" that the laws are there to protect the children is pure bullshit. If the mother wants to spend money on drugs, cigarettes, clothes, or on anything else she pleases, the State could not care less.


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