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#53569 - 09/20/04 08:19 PM Re: Holy crap
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
From your quote I cited above, I inferred that you were simply against any and all war.

I just read an on-line article about the latest beheading of an American in Iraq. If I hear one more asinine comment about how peaceful Islam is, or how the resistance in Iraq are "freedom fighters", "patriots", or "just protecting their homeland", I'm going to puke. I'm at a loss for words. Not only from the article I read and the stills from the beheading, but from the continued denial and apparent de-sensitization of people in our own country who cannot seem to realize how nasty that part of the world - and the people who inhabit it - are. It's sickening. They're decapitating our countrymen and the headlines will probably be some crap about Abu Gharib and how Rumsfeld should be fired or what Dan Rather says about old lady Knox. What a bunch of bullshit.
Those countries all suck. Why don't THEY take steps to ensure the safety and prosperity of their Muslim brethren? They support continued, pointless terrorism because they're a bunch of scumbags with no respect for human life or happiness.


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#53570 - 09/20/04 08:45 PM Re: Holy crap
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Green Glass.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#53571 - 09/21/04 12:43 AM Re: Holy crap
INANE Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 1670
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
Changing gears a lil... what about 3rd party canidates (other than just Nader)

Michael Badnarik

Question session on Slashdot

I become more Libertarian everyday :-/

_________________________
-Ben
HT v2.0 !
HT v1.0

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#53572 - 09/21/04 12:50 AM Re: Holy crap
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
I dunno. Every Libertarian I've ever met has been a real nutcase - except myself of course.

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#53573 - 09/21/04 12:50 AM Re: Holy crap
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
In reply to:

Not only from the article I read and the stills from the beheading, but from the continued denial and apparent de-sensitization of people in our own country who cannot seem to realize how nasty that part of the world - and the people who inhabit it - are. It's sickening.


Beheading IS sickening. It's downright evil. People who commit such acts are barely deserving of the word human.

However -- you knew this was coming -- I urge you to focus your anger toward the perpetrators and not broaden it to include all the people who inhabit that part of the world.
In reply to:

If I hear one more asinine comment about how peaceful Islam is, or how the resistance in Iraq are "freedom fighters", "patriots", or "just protecting their homeland", I'm going to puke.


Get your bucket ready. If you look at the balance of history, people who follow Islam, and not militant fundamentalists who put forth their own flavor of Islam, are peaceful.

The people behind the resistance in Iraq, the ones who are pulling the strings, are motivated more by POLITICS than religion. Islam is not the enemy.

I hate having to be the only voice of reason around here, especially since it makes me look like I don't care about American lives. I DO care about each American life lost. I just can't sit back and watch people foment rabid anti-Islamic hatred and say nothing to attempt to curb it.

As wise old Yoda once said, "Fear leads to Anger.  Anger leads to Hate.  Hate leads to suffering."
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#53574 - 09/21/04 01:00 AM Re: Holy crap
INANE Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 1670
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
I have to say I'm getting tired of hearing all about how peaceful Islam is... actions speak much louder than words in this case.

_________________________
-Ben
HT v2.0 !
HT v1.0

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#53575 - 09/21/04 01:17 AM Re: Holy crap
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
So the actions of a few who identify themselves as Muslim reflect upon ALL Muslims?

Folks, what we have here is yet another reductionist fallacy. It's logically no different than saying all African Americans are criminals, or all Native Americans are drunks.

Not once did I say all Muslims are peaceful. I said Islam is a peaceful religion. Don't slam an entire polulation because some of its members are violent.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#53576 - 09/21/04 02:19 AM Re: Holy crap
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
They are not a "few," PMB. The Koran and Hadiths speak proudly of beheading unbelievers, making temporary truces (Hudna) until the faithful are strong enough to kill their "peace" partners, slavery, sexual slavery, Holy War ... Please PMB, don't put a happy face on this murderous rampage against civilization. Who are the terrorists in the world? Who murdered the children of Belsan, of Ma'alot? Who brought down the twin towers? Who beheaded Nick Berg, Daniel Pearl, Armstrong, etc., etc.? Who cheered when the towers came down? Who is conducting the genocide of Darfur? Where is slavery still a strong institution? If someone refuses to admit something is seriously wrong with the civilization which espouses these values, values of murder, theft, slavery, calculated deceit ... then such a person is an apologist for these practices.

What kind of religious "authority" makes "Fatwas" religious legal edits, of death for someone like Salman Rushdi, for writing a book, but is thunderously silent, refuses to issue a single Fatwah against those who murder children, or Osama Bin Laden or Al Zarqawi, for the mass murder of those in the twin towers?

I know, PMB, you are quick to condemn the US for our policies, and accuse us of murder, and suggest that to fight terrorism is as bad as terrorism because all war is killing, but that value structure ignores the difference between the policeman and the murderer who have a shoot out with each other.

These murderers are not madmen who arise out of nothing - they are committed practitioners of their faith, a faith which condones murder. They are Islamic Jihadists, and Jihad is a requirement of that faith. The issue is what constitutes normative values for a given civilization, not whether there are good people in every civilization.




Edited by 2x6spds (09/21/04 02:32 AM)
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#53577 - 09/21/04 02:39 AM Re: Holy crap
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
You say this because you are living at this point in history. Turn back the clock a bit and it's Christians doing the killing. Turn it back further and it's someone else.
In reply to:

These murderers are not madmen who arise out of nothing - they are committed practitioners of their faith, a faith which condones murder. They are Islamic Jihadists, and Jihad is a requirement of that faith.


Bullshit. You are blinded by hatred and fear. Next I suppose you'll call for all Muslims living in America to be rounded up into camps. After all, how can we tell the difference between "faithful practitioners of their faith" and those that just like to call themselves Muslim but don't really believe in killing, hmm?

Keep it up 2x6. You are adding fuel to the fire.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#53578 - 09/21/04 02:54 AM Re: Holy crap
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Correct, PMB, I'm living at "this point in history." I don't live 500 years ago, or a 1000 years ago, or in the Pleistocene. I don't compare our society to Genghis Khan's, or the piles of human skulls left across the plains of scorched civilizations, to make excuses for today's murderers.

It's not "bullshit." Todays terrorists are Muslim. Not all Muslims are terrorists, but they can claim every terrorist of note in the world today. You attempt to show that they're not so bad, that someone else is or was as bad. True, Christianity has a bloody history, but it has progressed greatly. Our society is civilized, it has renounced slavery, it is tolerant. Do you think Muslim societies are tolerant of other religions? It's not hatred, to say this, it is what it is. When Islam can be self critical, take responsibility for its murderers and do something about them, rise up and reject them, then you can compare Islam to Christianity.

No, I'm not in favor of "rounding up" Muslims and putting them "into camps." I am in favor of strict scrutiny and surveillance, and strict restrictions on immigration. I am in favor of ethnic profiling at airports and points of entry. Islamic terrorists tend to be ... though politically incorrect to say, Islamic. Time to wake up. Also time for those who call "themselves Muslim but don't really believe in killing," to turn on those who do instead of on those who complain about the murderous practitioners of that faith - those who murder in the name of that faith. Beslan, almost 200 children murdered, some of them shot, some of them raped then killed - violence against Christians. Take a look at the world - the margins of Islam is a ring of fire and death. Who is at war with Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, Jews, animists, Zoroastrians, B'hais? There is a war against the world - a religious war. Renounce it! Condemn it! Don't make excuses for it or say what's happening isn't really happening.


Edited by 2x6spds (09/21/04 03:02 AM)
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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