Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Totem Dreamcatchers

I've narrowed down my HT package to the Totem Dreamcatchers or this Axiom set-up. M22 fronts, QS8's rear, VP100, EP175. The other system I liked was Energy's Encore system. I'm leaning towards the Totem package because it seems like everytime I audition the Axioms they sound muffled compared to the Totem's. Anybody have any comments on either system?

Did you say you found Axiom muffled compared to Totem?

I've had the chance to audition the dreamcatcher - twice, in two different settings, with different electronics and different sources playing. I liked them, a whole lot. They're an excellent and good looking package. However, they are expensive, and I don't find them to be as good as the Axiom setup I have.

Just for the record, my HT consists of

M22Ti
VP150
QS4
EP125

If you are thinking of buying these, or better, do so. They surpass the Totem's Dreamcatcher. The most noticeable improvements Axioms give are clarity and sound dispersion, especially in the surround and center channels.

My advice to you is buy the Axioms, and even better, don't get the VP100, get the VP150. It's well worth the extra cash.

good luck with your decision!

I have also demoed these Totems. I do like the way they sound at first, but after a while I found myself wanting to turn them of due to listening fatigue. They are very clear, almost too clear. I felt that they were a little too bright and piercing. My wife felt the same way. The Totems are good, the towers especially, but for the money I believe Axiom is a better choice.

Bestboy4

Thanks for the responses. I'll be demoing tthe Totem's again with my wife and will also be checking out B&W 600 S3's all round with LCR60 S3 with the ASW600 for a sub. These run very close in price to the Axiom set of 22's, VP150 and EP175. The other system I am trying to demo is Dahlquist's System 3.

I need to go to a better retailer and listen to the Axiom's again.

xforce

the dahlquists are a great competitor of Axiom!

I have said it before that if Axiom was a bit more expensive I would have an all Dahlquist home theatre. Their surrounds are very good, their subs aren't, and their bookshelves and centers are very, very good. They sell very well in Canada because they, too, are Canadian and are not expensive considering the quality.

However, with prices being almost equal, and with Axiom having FAR FAR better customer service, I found Axiom to be a no-brainer.

Well, my wife and I just got back from auditioning a lot of speakers. I have to say that Axiom did sound better this time when we had a chance to listen to them set up in a proper room. We eliminated the Energy Encore and a Energy conniseur system and B&W 600 system. The 2 on the top of the list are still Totem and Axiom.

AXIOM
Pros:
Lower end is better
quad-polar surrounds
good customer service
loyal customer following

Cons
Laminate finish
not quite as detailed

TOTEM
Pros:
beautiful veneer finish
smaller speakers all round
more detailed middles and highs
audiophile reputation

Cons:
base doesn't go as low or fill the room as much
direct radiating rears
the 4 monitors are a little harder to drive

Both systems I listened to were about the same price. Actually the Totems were $200 cheaper. The Axiom set-up I listened to was the M3 for fronts, QS4's for rears, VP150 and the EP175. So I guess I mull it over for while I finish the basement and see how I feel when its time to install the system. I now need to do some research on in-wall speaker wire.

xforce

i find it odd that you found Totem's mids and highs better, and that they were more detailed.

i found their highs were rough and fatiguing. i also found the system to be very bad for music, whereas M22's are perfect for music AND home theatre.

anybody else compared the two and wish to respond?

I have not comapred these models, but have other models in the respective lineups.

In general, it is suffice to say that they each have their respective strengths, but overall the choice would be geared to the overall vision of my system.

I believe the Totem's are a better speaker at the upper end of the lineup. But again, only if you had the extra money, and were not living with less than acceptable system components.

Dahlquist is a US company, based in NY

Check the company bio here:
http://www.dahlquistspeakers.com/

Also, as you state Axiom has "far,far better service" , what was you bad experience with Dahlquist service?

Didn't Dahlquist have some financial troubles awhile back?
I think they were tagged as a troubled company for a long time.

BBIH said:
Also, as you state Axiom has "far,far better service" , what was you bad experience with Dahlquist service?

Did you have a bad experience with Totem? An advantage to Axiom is you can speak to the owners, but I haven't heard of any complaints on any discussion boards about Totem. I've never owned Dahlquist.

Marc at audioshop told me:
Dahlquist was a very good speaker in the 70's, they went under someone purchased them and made cheesy speakers and now jonic is trying to rebuild the former reputation.

That URL is just a company who services Dahlquist.
The URL for jonic is www.jonic.ca

Totem does have a lot of speakers that are much more expensive than Axiom but in regards to the Dreamcatcher compared to a similar Axiom set-up, I believe it presents an excellent value.
I know this was discussed awhile back when Axiom increased its prices. As many others have said, it's not Axiom who holds the clear cut decision for best value in Canadian speaker anymore. They are priced competitively with other very good CDN speaker companies like Energy, PSB, Mirage, Paradigm and now even Totem.

Well stated. I believe in the copr onfo section of the website, they address the companies woes.

Yes, they were a very well thought of speaker earlier in their day.....can't say I have come across them recently. But I can honestly say that I have seen little on the street from Axiom as well. They were prominent in several stores in the area....but alas....

I auditioned a few different speakers today. First there was the Paradigm Studio20's..very nice..clean highs and excellent mids. LAcks punch, but of course its a mini-monitor. Also listened to B&W's 303 and 601's. Both were ok, but i think a little pricey for what you get. The Paradigms are a better value at $600 a pair.
I also had a chance to listen to Energy C3's with C1's. These were ok, I would compare them to Paradigms monitor series.

So as of right now the leading 3 systems is the Axiom set up, Paradigm ref. 20's and the totem dreamcatchers. I think the 2 receivers that I've liked are Pioneer Elite 42 and the Denon 1603 or maybe the 1803 when it comes out.

xforce

the Denon 1603 is a great choice
as are the Paradigm Ref's, but they are way more expensive than Axiom.

I personally am not a fan of the Dreamcatchers. I like Totem's higher end models but they are more expensive that cars or downpayments on a condo.

Hello xforce,

Just a note on the Paradigm Reference 20s. I've had a pair for years and on instantaneous A/B comparisons (the only ones that are really valid) they're virtually indistinguishable from Axiom's M22ti's. I prefer the soundstage and imaging of the M22s slightly over the Reference 20s. The 20s have a little more bass output. The 20s were my benchmark mini-monitor reference speaker until I auditioned the M22ti's.

Also, re Dahlquist. The latter's DQ-10 in the '70s was a landmark speaker. Unfortunately, Dahlquist never followed up with other models of merit (John Dahlquist was in a terrible car accident).

For a time, they sold a line with imported German drivers. They had a distinctly German disco tonal balance (boomy bass, midrange sag, exaggerated tweeter output). Then a Canadian company, Audiosphere, purchased the name. I had lunch with the then-Audiosphere president about whether to re-introduce the DQ-10! I believe Audiosphere then went into receivership and I'm uncertain who actually builds or designs the Dahlquist models. Nor have I heard any.

Regards,

Thats true Ravi, but in the really hifi world, Totem is a small player....a mere $12000. for the Shaman..chump change for the likes of JMlab Grande Utopia and the like. And hell if your going to spend a hundred g's on a pair of speakers you'll need $200,000 on electronics!

How about Sherwood Newcastle? I have looked at the 756 ($1000.cdn) and it seems really nice. I've read some great consumer reviews but info is hard to come by about the company and this receiver.

In regards to pricing of the M22's and the Paradigm Reference studio 20's, their really is no signicant difference. The M22's list for $620cdn and I was quoted $650 for the studio20's. Both would be discounted a little further if a complete HT system was purchased. I've listened to both and both are good. But it is frustrating to see Axiom's prices being matched by some of Paradigm's reference line.
I would have to think the parts and the construction of the reference line would be of higher quality than Axiom uses.

xforce,
i would not presume that the Paradigm reference line has more 'quality' parts because of a slightly higher price difference or because they are considered the 'high end' of the Paradigm lineup.
This is how a company's marketing strategy sucks in the buyers. They could change one feature of a speaker from their 'low end' brands, give it a new better sounding name and sell it for an extra hundred bucks knowing that buyers coming in looking for the best their money can get, will buy the 'higher' end speaker.

For example, we take two speaker brands and place them a mere $100 apart in price and change the drivers from an aluminum tweeter to a combo Al-Ti tweeter. Change the woofers from a polymer cone to a mica polymer cone or perhaps make them out of heavier HDF instead of MDF and rename them. Now which one would you buy?

A) Company Name Stylus Theatre series or,
B) Company Name Superior Reference Gold series (for only a hundred or two more)

Alot of research goes into product name testing to see what sounds good to the consumer in the world of electronics, food products...you name it.

Axiom does not have model 'categories' like Paradigm, so it is easy to think that all Axiom has is one standard line of speakers with just differences in size and driver numbers.
Don't let the names or prices fool you. Axiom simply builds the best speaker they can, period.

The only way to know better quality is to audition for oneself and to do it without any predisposition or bias towards a brand.
I think of that advice when reviewing speaker prices and component materials by trying to remember Wilson Audio's $80, 000 (USD; $125, 000Cdn) X-1Grand SLAMM speakers.
I don't care if they do weigh 1200 lbs, they are not worth that much cash unless that weight is due to solid gold parts.
wilson ridiculous audio grand slamm

No one will ever convince me that they actually sound 120, 000 times better than the $1000 Axioms.

Good point...I wasn't comparing the names. Lets face they both cost almost the same, studio 20's AREN'T more expensive than the M22's. And I think if you pulled them apart and looked at what was inside, the Paradigm would have higher quality components.

Hey, both sound good, no doubt about that, but i think people need to realize Axiom is not the super high value it once was, it price points are in the same ballpark as almost all Canadian priced speakers and even companies like Totem and upper end lines of PSB, Energy, and Paradigm prices compare with Axiom.
It's my opinion that Paradigm's reference line and Totem (especially)quality and workmanship are above the above mentioned companies or lines. Has nothing to do with name or gadgets on them. Pull them apart and there in lies the truth. No slight against Axiom and calling something a Gold sereies only sucks in suckers.

I like Axiom and i think the company is fantastic and I still may get an Axiom set up, but I don't have blinders on like many loyal Axiom owners.

Since i haven't pulled any of these speakers apart i could not say whether the components inside are more or less expensive than each other (although Ian or Alan may have done such a thing and could tell you, but that might give away the general true base costs of the Axiom build and hence, not really be a good idea from the company perspective).

I do agree with you that the price of Axioms has gone up and now puts them in a position that removes them from the super bargain quality speaker to the more general pool of brand names competing at the same price level. In fact, i think i may have been one of the first people to buy Axioms within one month of their price increases. I had to wait until the end of June before purchasing and i recall their prices went up around April or May. Needless to say i wasn't too happy that several hundred dollars was added to my original estimated expenses so close to my purchase date but after picking up some Factory Outlet deals, the cost came back to my original estimates.
For THAT price i'm very satisfied with these Axioms.

Ultimately though, it was the customer service and personal attention that sold me as well. I was tempted in looking around at some other speaker options after hearing about the price increase. However, I decided i was willing to pay a couple of hundred extra to have that security of a good company standing by their products (and not having to deal with a local vendor). That being said, about $200 extra would be about my personal limit for such service.

I really do need to get out and do some more auditioning. Its been awhile since i've heard Paradigm speakers.

My two cents on the Paradigm audition Chess...(such a coincidence!!)...I listened to my M60's for two hours yesterday, then drove to hear the same cd's with the Studio 40's. They even had the new Yamaha I have with their 40's. My very untrained ear and limited audio vocabulary will not begin to describe the differences between the two. I will just simply say that I am very glad I chose the 60's. I heard the 40's two months ago when I began the search for my home theater package and almost pulled that trigger. After extensive online forum research, I chose the Axioms unheard. I just had a hunch. I returned yesterday to rationalize that purchase and to do some research for a friend. Silly I know, but I didn't want the buyers remorse cloud hanging over me. I am feeling no remorse after the audition. So would you call the "after-audition phase", the "validation phase"? If so, my decision was validated. Hopefully I can post my pics soon. I'm very proud of the results.

I can honestly say i've gone through the same phase. Although i have yet to satisfy my curiousity and head back to borrow the Angstrom speakers i auditoned as a direct in home comparison.
I really would love to hear their sound again but i've easily vindicated my purchase in knowing that if (and i did) have any problems, that Axiom the company would be easy to deal with.
I never seriously considered the PSB, Paradigm lineups due to a strong local influence of advice. I did however briefly look at Energy and auditioned the B&W 603 series.

xforce,

Twice you mention that you think (price being similar) that if you took apart an M22ti and a Paradigm Reference 20, that you expect to find better quality parts in the Reference 20, yet you don't explain why. Could you please elaborate??

Also, this was posted in the stereo section by Sean, if you haven't had a chance to read it, it's an informative and recent comparison of Axiom M22ti, Paradigm Reference 40v2, and a few other higher end speakers.

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/faceoff3_a.php

As you will read, there are some who still consider the M22ti to give you considerable bang for your buck.

As far as which system is right for you, only you can answer that, if you ask for advice on the axiom boards, you should expect axiom owners touting their speakers

After auditioning Reference 20's & 40's, PSB's, Boston Acoustics, Mirage, JBL, I decided to go with the M22ti's and I am more than pleased by their performance and thier great value (saved a lot of strife between me and the wife). Unfortunately did not listen to any Totems although I LOVE the looks of the Arro, Forest, etc.

Good Luck,

DL

I hope nobody is getting me wrong, I really like Axiom speakers and think they are a very good speaker. The one frustrating thing is that when i first looked at Axiom products last winter.....no question the very best value in cdn made speakers. I laid off speakers research for awhile and now that I'm back into it again I've found that Axiom is not the astounding value they were. Yes, I agree Axiom owners on an Axiom board will defend their speakers, I expect that, but lets be open to others opinions. My point is that there is a few excellent speakers that to my ears are as good or better than Axiom and priced very close.
I still have not purchased any Axiom products, but am looking for advice on possible use with a tube amp. These high efficiency speakers are a whole world apart from the mainstream and a whole different listening audience...a lot of DIY type people.

My education is never ending!