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Receiver Recommendations?
#5520 09/06/02 01:08 PM
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reddish Offline OP
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I am new to the home theater scene and am looking for my first receiver in the $1000 range. I've been considering the Denon 3802 but wanted to get some feedback, please let me know what's a good bang for the buck. Thanks!

Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5521 09/06/02 01:52 PM
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Hello reddish,

Denon doesn't skimp on heat sinks and cooling of their receiver's output sections, which means the 3802 will drive low impedances (4 ohms) and remain stable, without overheating or triggering of protection circuitry. The latter can happen with some other receiver brands that offer a lot of features but short-change the power-amp sections of the receivers. Typically, those will state that the receiver amps will drive only 6-ohm loads or higher, which is okay if all your speakers have 8-ohm impedances, but not okay if you are planning to get speakers with a nominal 4-ohm impedance rating.

Regards,


Alan Lofft,
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Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5522 09/06/02 01:58 PM
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reddish Offline OP
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Thanks Alan! So the 3802 will be able to handle both the QS-8 and the M80ti's with no problem?

Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5523 09/06/02 02:08 PM
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Hi,

That is correct, sir.

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Alan Lofft,
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Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5524 09/06/02 02:57 PM
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reddish

I have a Denon 1602, and I plugged in some crappy old Braun speakers that are 4 ohms and drove them to high volume levels with ease.

I have no doubts the 3802 can do the same, considering it is far more expensive and in the same line!

Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5525 09/06/02 05:03 PM
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Thanks Ravi!

Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5526 09/06/02 06:40 PM
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REDDISH,
I just checked again with 6th Ave . com, they still offer up the Denon 3802 for $699.00 (plus shipping).. Ask for Chris, ex 509..
I've had mine for a month or so now and couldn't be happier.. Megga power to burn ! Combined with my M80's there is just no stopping me..
Running around -10 db on movies, and +05 db or better with the tunes.. It will go wayyyyy beyond that without breakin a sweat, but I got tired of jumping up to catch all the stuff falling off the shelves..


LFE ! The rest is just details..
Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5527 09/06/02 07:05 PM
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Reddish,

The Denon 3802 is a great buy, but if music is a priority as well as movies, DON'T buy the Denon until you've had the chance to audition other receivers. Onkyo, Outlaw, and Yamaha make receivers that will all outperform the Denon on music. The receivers by Arcam will blow the Denon out of the water on music, but you sacrifice 6.1 and component video switching.

Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5528 09/06/02 07:46 PM
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I would tend to disagree with you here, I have both the denon 3802 and the denon 5800, The 3802 was purchased to replace my Yamaha 995 which I then moved too my office. I find that the 3802 for my type of music and the type of movies I like, far and away outperforms the Yamaha 995. The AVR-5800 just completely blows away all of them. the only unit that i have auditioned that came close the Denon (5800) was the marantz SR-14EX. In the end I went with the 5800 as my main unit not only for features but for sound. The 3802 performs extremly well overall, but you know it really comes down to personal preference at this price point pretty well all of the units are going to give you very good performance. The problem I have found when going to shops and listening to the different units was in trying to compare them you were listening to one receiver on one type of speakers the second on another type. The only way I could do it was to find a place that carried the models that i wanted to compare, take the units home to auditon in your own place with your setup. then you could compare each of them for a couple of days and say wow i like the color this gives the sound or I don't like what that one does. With whatever you choose at that price point they will all give you simlar features and similar performance.

Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5529 09/07/02 03:21 AM
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i have the denon 1802 a real bang for the buck!! driving a set of polk monitor 12's soon to be driving a set of m50's

Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5530 09/07/02 06:27 PM
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fhw is right

Arcam and Outlaw will be better than Denon with music. Yamaha and Onkyo, however, i'm not so sure. I haven't found their lower end models to be as great with music as their higher end models.

Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5531 09/07/02 06:45 PM
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My newbie opinion might not be worth too much, but I'll put my Yamaha RX-V1300 ($627 delivered) up against anything. Although this is my very first system, I am totally sold on the combination I have taken three months to research and buy. The Yamaha drives my 6.1 Axiom setup very nicely. M60's, QS8's, VP150 and EP175 would sound great with most receivers I bet, but I have grown very fond of my setup the past week or so.

Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5532 09/07/02 07:03 PM
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Id suggest looking into HarmanKardon and Rotel Both of those companies have teriffic power supplies in their receivers so no worries there and they both sounds great - Yamaha is good for HT but ive heard (and I really have heard) they sound like ass for music; which is a pity. But they are great for HT If you end up with a receiver that is considered 'high current' you will get a much better sound - I recently learned that the more wattage you have, not only is it safer, but it sounds much better I hope I dont sound condescending or anything - Im not a real audio pro I just dabble a bit


1xAxiom ax 1.2 2xPolk Audio R30 2xMordaunt-Short 3.0 H/K AVR 225 Paradigm PDR-10 Sub HTR MX-500
Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5533 09/08/02 12:48 AM
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I'm always baffled by comments like: "Yamaha is
good for HT but ive heard (and I really have heard) they sound like ass for music"-freesey.
How can something sound good for HT but not good for music or vice versa? I'm just curious because I think my h/k AVR520 does an excellent job on BOTH. I'd be a little upset if it lacked in either department. I hear Denon and Yamaha are good for HT and Marantz, NAD and h/k are good for music. Unless you ONLY listen to music OR HT, why would you buy something that's only good for one "thing"?
I know this is off-topic, but I'm really curious to hear opinions on this matter.
Thanks!
PS I'm quoting you, freesey, but it's nothing personal and this is not an attack on you. You just happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.


Big L
Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5534 09/08/02 03:09 AM
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Big L, you have good reason to be baffled by those comments, since there's no technical basis for them. If you get a receiver adequately powerful for your setup and which has flat response from 20-20K hz with inaudibly low distortion(which most manufacturers supply easily), it will be good for home theater, good for music, and good for music occurring in home theater.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5535 09/08/02 04:41 AM
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I agree with JohnK.

The words "adequately powerful" very much point out that more power does not automatically equal better sound, for any application.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5536 09/08/02 10:06 AM
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chess... JohnK

Can't say that I disagree with your statements/arguments. Seems to me like the logic is there.

Most HT contains a sh**load of music these days. (and music is music eh?) My guess as to why some people believe that one brand (or model) is better at HT than music (or vice versa) stems from the companies particular approach to design the features that support HT (or just music)sound. I would think that since pretty stringent standards exist for the use and application of the 5.1, 6.1 decoding (and others) like DTS, DD, DPL etc, that they would be "essentially" the same between brands. But the way a company designs the receiver to use these decoders COULD have an effect on it's sound (for HT at least) and thus the perception that some brands do better at one element than the other.

Given the time and difficulty of actually comparing the sounds and features of receivers in the HT environment(unless they are doing an exact double blind test - which helps to eliminate the brain's acoustic memory loss), I think most people would be hard pressed to judge one brand "better" than the other when comparing their ability to reproduce HT vs music.

That whole argument seems pretty silly to me.

Just my 2 cents....

Randyman

Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5537 09/08/02 01:09 PM
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I had a similar concern with the purchase of receiver that could drive totem's dreamcatcher system. The 4 monitors are rated at 4ohms and I was looking at either the Denon 1603 or the Marantz 5200. I was told it would be no problem by a sales rep, true?

Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5538 09/08/02 05:55 PM
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Randyman I agree with you, in some regards however the comments do hold somewhat true, in stating that a system sounds go for HT but not for music. The point here is HT not Music. You will never find it the other way around. This seems to be more a product of the system as whole rather then just the receiver. For HT you can get a way with a lot as the requirements are just not as demanding. That is to say that to reproduce HT to sound good is as not as demanding of a system as to reproduce Music. The sound tracks on HT generally are very sloppy, the bass is deep and rumbling which is what impresses everyone but it is really not too demanding fidelity wise becuase that is not what you are really listening too. Now too reproduce music to any degree of accuracy requires a much better system overall the audience focus is on the music and reproduction of it is more critical. A setup while sounding great on HT can in fact sound mediocre for music. The choices for your receiver tend to be very influenced by what is considered “hot” this year. The business is very cyclical, one year it is Yamaha or Outlaw that everyone wants, the next it is Denon, next year it will Onkyo. I would challenge most people as you correctly state to actually hear any difference if they were not able to see what they were listening to. Given the same class of AV receiver the same speaker setup and the same piece of music, I do not think you would be able to tell one manufacturers comparable model to another’s. I do not mean comparing 500.00 receivers, you take any of the low to average range receiver’s $1000.00 to $1500.00 and compare the direct competitor to the model. Run them flat without any DSP crap and see if you can tell the difference. Most people cannot.

Last edited by john_henderson; 09/08/02 06:13 PM.
Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5539 09/08/02 06:05 PM
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Ravi,
that is a pretty broad and general stement to make. You have to compare apples to apples. to broadly state that Outlaw and Arcam are better then Denon is pretty liberal. you cannot compare an Outlaw even the best one they make the 1050 which is what all of what $800.00 with the likes of the AVR5800 or 5803 they are simply not even in the same class. A person looking at either one would not be even auditioning the other.

Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5540 09/08/02 08:15 PM
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John, i agree with the notion that standard (or even experienced) users display a frequent inability to distinguish between system components (in this case receivers), I would also agree that certain brand names or technologies (ie. THX) can become the 'big ticket item' for any given year.
Although these statements are pretty logical, i don't believe that stating HT sound tracks are "sloppy" is accurate. I also do not believe that requirements for HT are not as demanding as opposed to music. Not all movies are bass action flicks or dramas with nothing but dialogue.

Case in point (and going back to Randyman's idea of soundtrack) have you ever watched a 'musical' production on dvd?

My fiance is quite the connoiseur of shows like The Sound of Music. These dvds require as rigorous and accurate a sound track as their cdrom counterparts. Making the cdrom sound a better quality than the dvd version just wouldn't make any sense at all. I highly doubt that extra care is only put forth for such dvds either. The focus of such movies is very much on the music.

One addition to our latest list of 'test' material for new components has become any of my fiance's musicals on dvd.

Last edited by chesseroo; 09/08/02 08:19 PM.

"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5541 09/09/02 12:44 AM
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Chesseroo,

You are very correct, maybe I too have generalized too much here as well. The point is not specifically all DVD's I have music DVD's as well. What my point is to be more specific, is that Movies in general and lets take for the example LOTR or even Star Wars Episode 1, While these movies have good sound tracks the main event of the movies is the special effects and the pumped up lazy base that rolls on and on. You do not need a really good system to make these movies impress somebody. Take for example Bose systems (this I speak from experience because my first HT system which I do still have was upstairs in the main family room, my wife’s criteria, " I don't want to see big speakers" So when see saw the Bose systems well there you go) Now this system while sounds good (as good as Bose can Sound) playing movies it absolutely sucks at music. Compared to my Yamaha 995 it is absolutely pathetic for music. Now I take the 995 and put it on my system in the HT Room and compare it against my Denon 3802 or my Denon 5800 when played flat you are hard pressed to pick out the 995 from the 3802, I can't. I can hear the differnce from the 995 to the 5800 but then again you are not comparing apples to apples. So with out rambling on here, I did not mean to lump all DVD's into this statement, and I agree with your thoughts. But the fact is, and I am sure that Ian, Joe, and Allan will tell you that a movie that is made for effects such as LOTR is more forgiving of a system for accuracy then a music CD or music DVD.

Re: Receiver Recommendations?
#5542 09/10/02 02:33 AM
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How about the Integra 5.2? I have an opportunity to but this demo for $799, what do you think? Also in that range I've heard good things about Pioneer Elite 41 and Marantz 6200.

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