Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater 6.1 or 7.1 in this room??

Hi all,
I am planning on ordering Axiom speakers but I just can't decide if I should go 6.1 or 7.1. Here is a photo of my rear wall:

Http://members.shaw.ca/mcad64

Width across is 13 feet. Centre is roughly above the light switch. 6.1 would be fairly straightforward, but as you can see with drop ceiling and hallway it is not necessarily conducive to 7.1. but could be done. I was thinking about QS8's for surround duties. I like DVDA and SACD so I am a little concerned about how these guys sound with high res audio though.
Thanks,
Mike

A link for the lazy people.

I can't help with 6.1 vs. 7.1 though, sorry

Thanks for the link. I am NOT one of the lazy people, unfortunately I AM one of the STUPID people who don't know how to make a link!! DOH!!

Didn't mean to imply either! You are a new person and thus not expected to know how to make links and such, but I know there's a lot of lazy people on here who will be much more inclined to follow a link than use cut and paste. I run a 5.1 system, in a pretty normal space, so I'm sorry I can't provide any meaningful input on 6.1 or 7.1 in your odd space.

Hi Mike, welcome! Andrew is right; some people are much more likely to click than to cut/paste, so he was just trying to get those folks to your link.

Unfortunately, I too can only offer opinion and anecdotes, not actual experience. I run 5.1 in a pretty big room and really don't feel deprived. In looking at your space, I should think that 6.1 would be quite adequate since it is not a terribly wide room. Plus, the mounting for 7.1 would be pretty challenging. One of our board regulars (Spiffnme) went from 5.1 to 7.1 and ultimately decided that the improvements were too modest to justify the expense and hassle. There is (to my knowledge), no discrete 6.1 or 7.1 source material anyway, so at best, your getting matrixed or derived channel(s) back there anyway. People seem to like the HK and Yamaha surround chips for those kinds of installations.

There have been discussions here in the past about which speaker to use for the rear channel. There does not seem to be a clear consensus, with some people preferring a third QS model and some preferring a direct radiating speaker (like a single M2). Getting a professional opinion from the Axiom staff might be worth your time.

As far as multichannel audio goes, the QS8's are terrific speakers. If you are concerned about their lower extension, you could consider an Outlaw ICBM or get a receiver that allows you to adjust the sub crossover for each channel independently. You don't say what kind of equipment you have or are considering, but bass management capabilities seem to vary pretty widely on DVDA/SACD players. The QS8's are really very capable speakers; the drivers are credibly big as is the enclosure. Unless multichannel audio is your primary focus, the immersive surround offered by the quadpolar design is a great HT/Music combination. If multichannel audio is going to outweigh your HT usage by like 70/30 or something, you might want to consider getting 6 identical speakers all the way around.

If I were in your situation, I would do 6.1 with 3 QS8's and be totally content.

Greetings,
For what it's worth, I had 6.1 and thought it was too directional. I went to 7.1 with QS8's on the side and back and think it is wonderful. In your room, m2 or m3's might be the ticket in the rear. Just my opinion, yours may differ...
b.

That set up seems prime for a 6.1 experience.

The 6.1 and 7.1 set ups are very similar. First, there's not that much separation between the rear channels in a 7.1 system. The information is all derived from another speaker (be it the surrounds or a matrixed stereo source).

Looking at the back wall, there might be a problem wiring a left rear surround because of the door. Therefore, go with the 6.1 installation, using a QS8 or 4. The wide dispersion should make it seem like the whole back wall is covered in sound. This will given you that convincing enveloped feel you're seeking.

I do tout the benefits of 6 and 7.1 over 5.1. I think that the directionality of sound in the rears becomes less distinct and the panning is better. I think that most people's rear set-ups dont let them experience the benefits because their couch is butted right up against the wall. Your situation is different, and you'd likely notice and enjoy the upgrade.

In short, go with the 6.1 and a QS of some sort. You'll be happy. Consider, however, getting a receiver (unless you already have one) that will give you 7.1 eventually, just in case you get upgradeitis or discover a way to place a second rear surround. Just make sure that it has Dolby Pro-Logic IIx -- notice the (X) in that, very important.

Anyway - have fun. It looks like you've got a great room for HT, baby!

Thanks for all the many replies. Below the photo is a simple schematic of the room, kind of an odd shape but what can a person do!! The plan is for the Infocus 4805 projector on the wall, with seating position about 13 feet give or take. That leaves around 10 feet to the rear wall. I would have to guess that the spousal unit will poopoo the 7.1 anyway and opt for the 6.1 due to a cleaner look. As far as a receiver I have not purchased one, but the plan is definitely 7.1 so that down the line if I want to put a second speaker on rear wall I am good to go. As far as receivers I am looking at the Yamaha RX-V750Ti, RX-V 1400, and RV 2400 as well as a Marantz 7400. Wife seems to want silver stuff downstairs so that almost certainly means the RX-V750ti or I guess the equivalent in the HTR line from Yamaha. Anyone have a 7.1 Yamaha that they run with Axioms?
Thanks again for replies and listening to my ramblings!!
Mike
PS: I heard this description for 5.1 versus 6.1 and 7.1. In 5.1 the bullets feel like they are whizzing by you, in 6.1 and 7.1 they feel like they are going through you!!

I agree with Capn Pickard about going with 6.1 and a QS8 or QS4.
I also agree about the bullets going through you with 6.1 too.

PS:Anybody know of any 7.1 movies so I could try out my 7.1 system?

Greetings,
I am using the Yamaha htr-5790 with m60's, vp150, 4 qs8's and an Hsu STF-3. Someone else in this thread mentioned using Pro Logic IIx, and I totally agree. At times I find it almost as enveloping as DD or DTS. The Yamaha has performed well...no complaints. Since I'm single and live with a cat, I didn't need spousal approval for any of the set up. The cat hasn't gone near any of the equipment, either. He knows better...
b.

don't know of a 7.1 listing, but here's a DTS listing that includes 6.1 listings:
DTS listing

KO, there actually is no 7.1 format; the most "real" channels is 6 on a few movies. The 6th channel can of course be played on both 6th and 7th back surround speakers and the general opinion is that the effect is somewhat better than with only a single back speaker. Also, as has been mentioned, processing such as DPLIIx can derive information from two and five channel sources and send stereo surround signals to the two back speakers.

Ok, I am starting to think more and more about putting 2 M2ti's on the rear wall for the 7.1. I think due to there more diminutive size(7 1/2" wide) I could in fact fit one of these guys to the right of that closet door. With a full metal bracket, I think it would be doable. My only question is: According to the literature for the full metal bracket it says it mounts the speaker 2 3/8" from the wall. Is this enough room for a rear ported speaker?? The final setup would be as follows: M22ti's up front, VP150 for centre, QS8's left/right surround and 2 M2ti's for the rears. As you can tell I REALLY want 7.1!! This would give me 5 1/4 woofers all around? Which I assume would mean a uniform soundfield for hires audio.
Mike

Mike, I think you answered your own question when you said:

In reply to:

---

I REALLY want 7.1!!

---

.

If you really want it, anything less will give you nagging dissatisfaction.

You should check with Axiom on the FMB and the M2, but I'd be flabbergasted if they designed a bracket that would not work well with their own speakers. I'll bet you'll be better than fine.

Is hires audio similar to Hires Root Beer?

That will be a great system. What are you doing again for the sub?

tomtuttle,
Good point on inquiring about the FMB and the M2i!! As far as sub goes, for now I will drag my sub from upstairs downstairs. It is a Paradigm PDR-10. It will do sub duties for the time being. Hires root beer..mmmmmmmm....beer!!!
Mike

I'll say it again, especially with that nice Paradigm sub, I think the system you've described is going to be fantastic! Also, a lot of people seem to really like the HK receivers, and they are often available for good prices from harmanaudio.com and other online sources. Don't get me wrong, I personally have Denon and Yamaha stuff, but there have been numerous mentions by people who really enjoy the HK multichannel processing.

Now, go have a beer.

Thanks for the info Bilbo and JohnK.

KO

Does HK have a receiver with DPLIIx? I can only find DLPII.

I think they call it Logic7 or something similar. Same idea as DPLIIx, but proprietary circuitry. We need to find somebody who knows this stuff better than I.

Logic 7 and DLPIIx are similar but different. Yes, both will get information to come from the rear speakers, but the Logic 7, as I understand it, plays more like Neo 6 from DTS. (Please feel free to correct me if I'm worong on this - I'm not a Logic 7 user). That is, it plays a mono rear surround. The DLPIIx plays a stereo rear surround and can do so with a 2 channel or a 5.1 or 4.0 signal.

Both DPLIIx and the seven channel HK receivers with Logic7 will extract different "stereo" surround material for two back speakers. DPLIIx can do it with a 5.1(or4.0)source as well as two channel, while the HK variety of Logic7(there are more advanced versions by Lexicon)operates only on two channel.

thanks fo the clarification, John.

Hey MCAD64, I too had the 7.1 bug. So that's what I have now. VP150 (center), M60s (fronts), QS8s (side surrounds) and M2s (rear surrounds). Coming in as the 20th or so person to put a post on here a lot has been said already. But I'll post from my experience.
It's true, there is no 7.1 "discrete" signals (though DD-EX could be argued as 7.1 discrete)...but all movies can be made 7.1 movies. Anthing can be upconverted from a 5.1 or 6.1 to 7.1. 5.1 to 7.1 spreads the sounds of the left surround between the left side surround and left rear surrounds, and visa versa for the right side. In 6.1 the rear surrounds play in mono when in a 7.1 setup.
I could go on about what I think about 5.1 vs. 7.1. But I'll sum it up pretty simply here. If you have a large room....go with 7.1. It will really help fill in the sound from the rear. I've done tests between 5.1 and 7.1 and I can't help but like the 7.1 better because the sound surrounds me more than ever. Like a movie theater you have the speakers on the sides of the seating and behind. But if you have a relatively small to medium sized room then 7.1 is overkill because you don't need that much sound being spread all over the room. Again. 7.1 has the side and rear surrounds share information. So unless you can really spread you speakers a good distance apart, it's a waste of money really.
Though Dolby Digital EX does (in some senses) use 7.1 in a disrete fashion. Movies such as Finding Nemo and Star Wars Episodes I and II all use DD-EX, as well as the Lord of the Rings movies. But, if you're going to watch Lord of the Rings I'd recommend the DTS 6.1 Discrete channels. So...there are a few examples of movies where having 6.1 or 7.1 would be nice over 5.1. But again, it really comes down to room size.

Small to Medium = 5.1 or 6.1
Medium to Large = 6.1 or 7.1
Larger than Large = how ever many amps and speakers you can afford