Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Setup Question

Hey Guys:

I need some advice here. I'm fixing to put in my order to replace my speakers and I need some help with making a decision.

Due to my circumstances, I can only afford to do one of two options. This question by the way has to do with my center channel and surround speakers. I got my mains all figured out already.

Ok, again, I can only go with one of these two options. I can either go with:

1.The VP100 and the QS8's

Or

2. The VP150 and the QS4's.

My HT room is 15'11.5" X 10'10.5", ceiling is roughly 7'4".

Which would be the better way to go in your guys opinion. In some ways I'm kind of thinking option 1 cause, well my room isn't wide at all, therefore the extra dispersion isn't needed at all.

Thanks in advance to all who replies.




Sutter Cane

i would say opt. 1 also.. i know the QS8's are worth every penny, and from prior posts, the VP100 can hold its own with the 150. i think ray has the 100, and he says it has plenty of volume and dispersion.

good luck with which ever choice you make!

bigjohn

Thanks BigJohn, I appreciate your responce as well as your advice. I can always count on you to lend a helping hand, nobody else sure has bothered.

Doesn't anybody else have something to contribute? Nobody has any advice or opinion to my question? I really could use all the advice I can get regarding the options I have.

Thanks.


Sutter Cane

I agree with BigJohn on this. I too would choose the VP100 and the QS8's.

In reply to:

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.. nobody else sure has bothered.

---

Sutter, meaning no disrespect, there any number of legitimate reasons why others haven't "bothered" to respond. For example, I have never heard the VP100 or QS4s, and I don't feel qualified to answer your question. I would hate to give out advice based on partial information, and have someone be disappointed by heeding it. If experience with all 4 speakers wouldn't matter to you, it would be helpful if would state that in your question, and ask for opinions based on what we've heard here. You will not lack for opinions from the members of this forum.

I always feel badly when someone asks a question and doesn't get much of a response. But nine times out of ten, it's because we don't have the wherewithal to reasonably answer the question, not because we're ignoring it.

Also, I would ask you to not be so quick to assume the worst of us here. I know that you've heard, over at the SPoT, what a terrible bunch we are. So I can understand you looking for the worst. But, please try to give us the benefit of the doubt, if you can. Doing so will go a long way toward providing the experience you want to have here.

Thank you.

I guess I can be guilty on ignoring this one also. I have posted a ton on the VP150 vs the VP100 as I have both and have done side by side tests etc...........If you missed it, there is squat for difference. I have never heard the QS4's so I can't help there. I have had the QS8's but I sold them as they didn't do it for me with music and went with the M3's. Big improvement with music!

If the above are my only 2 choices, option 1 it is.

Sorry, SutterCane. My real job beckons.

My advice is theoretical only. The only one of the speakers in your question that I own or have heard is the QS8.

Based on NeverHappy and Ray3's experiences with the VP100, that is what I am going to buy (am currently using a center from another manufacturer and have other, higher priorities). Although TonyM does have me thinking about two M2's instead, but I digress.

I vote option 1. The QS8's have bigger drivers and a bigger box, which enables them to produce appreciably deeper bass response. This ability may help you measurably relative to not only HT but also multichannel audio. I love mine.

Kurt,

Glad to hear that the situation with your wife has improved...And you get better speakers to boot! I'd call that a double blessing.

As to the speakers, I have the VP150 (primarily for "what-if-itis" as we will move into a bigger place eventually) and since I have the M22's on stand as rear surrounds...(Rent house, look here to have a look see), I cannot comment with any authority on the QS8's other than what I heard in my audition. I was impressed but the M22's do excellent double duty as surrounds and as rears when listening to DTS tracks on DVD-A (no universal player, yet ). As the QS4 and the QS8 are now using the same tweeters, it comes down to your choice...The QS8's will play louder...

Did not see any mention of a sub but since your room is smaller, you might could go with the VP100 and the QS4's and have some green to put toward a sub...Things that make you go "Hmmmmmmmm"...

Just a thought...

Again, congrats on the wife's surgery and good luck deciding on speakers.

WhatFurrer (both here and on the SPOT)

WhatFurrer:

Sorry, forgot your name bud. That's a really nice a/v rack you have man. Nice collection of crosses/crucifixes as well.

The reason why I didn't mention a sub, is because I'm still contemplating which sub I'm going to go with.

I talked with Brent at Axiom about this a few days back, as well with Joe just a little while ago. They both agree that I should go with VP150 and the QS4's instead of the VP100 and the QS8's. They told me since the 4's now share the same tweeter as the 8's, there isn't any difference between the two speakers in terms of sound, quality, and preformance. According to what they told me, the only difference between the two, is that 8's will play a little louder and do a little better with bass responce, which makes since considering it has a bigger driver.

I've been giving this a lot of though. Although I've yet to make a decision, I've been taking what Brent and Joe had to say, as well as the advice I've gotten from others, and at this point in time I'm leaning towards the VP150 and the QS4's, or possibly the VP100 and the QS4's.

I agree with what Brent and Joe had to say though. Your surrounds are no where near as important as your center channel is, well, if your a home theater buff as I am. I may make my living as a musician, but I don't really care to listen to music all that much, primarly because I'm playing all the time.

Taking my room into consideration and the fact that Brent and Joe told me that the 4's would work perfectly in a room up to 24'X18', I really can't see the point in getting the 8's.

Now with all that said though, again I'll point out, I have yet to make a decision. In other words, this could all change before it's all said and done. I plan on placing my order though some time tonight. Assuming the idiot (the idiot being me) can make a freakin decision before the night ends. If not, then it'll be first thing in the morning.




Sutter Cane

I'm sure I missed it, SutterCane, but what mains are you going with?

My intuition tells me the QS4s aren't much different from the QS8s now, so that sounds like good advice from the factory. If NeverHappy is correct re the center then... VP100 and QS4s with money left over for sub, TV, DVDs, whatever.

BTW, Tom, that is one happy, handsome, smart lookin' boy! Sure he's yours?

Ok.......I'm bored as I have no TV at the moment. So I just hooked them both up again and the VP150 and the VP100 sound exactly the same. The VP150 throws a little more sound when the volume gets to the insane level but other then that, the same. My wife who has a very good ear, agreed that they sound the same.

BigWill:

I'm going with the M22ti's for my mains.

Neverhappy:

Based off your comparison , that defiantly gives me something to think about. Like BigWill said, with the money I'd save, I could apply that on other things.

SC, in your size room the QS4s with a vertical M2 center should give you the best sound for the least money.

Hiya Kurt. I'm very pleased with the VP100 in a 16x22x10 room. While I have the QS8s, I'd suggest the 4s would work well (and save some $$$) in a room your size. Same tweeter was mentioned above. Worst case is that you may play everything a db or two louder, but the audio quality will be excellent. Also, your fronts will help create a false center effect to supplement the VP100.

I hope momma is recovering nicely!

Ray

Thanks guys, and Ray, the wife is doing alright. A little sore yet, but she's getting better.

I got to ya all, this is only getting worse instead of better. Let me explain.

I picked up the phone to place my order last night. Just as it was begining to ring, I started to question my decision for my mains. Based off of all the advice I received from Joe, Brent, and Alan, I had decided I was going to go with the M22's this time, even though I absolutely loved my M50's.

So as the phone rang, I got to thinking, man, is the M22's better then the M50's for what I'm looking for, or what I'll be using them for. See, I'm trying to get the best speakers for home theater applications. I make my living as a musician, therefore due to the fact that I'm playing all the time, I really don't care to listen to much music when I'm not preforming.

The guys from Axiom, Joe, Brent, and Alan, all told me the M22's would be a major upgrade from the M50's due to their imaging, soundstange, and being clearer.

What do you all think? I mean I just want to do the job right this time out. Not that I feel I did the job wrong last time, because I was more then happy with the M50's. It's just that because of all that has happened, I'm now in a position where I'm able to do things over again, to do things better, and I just want to get the best speakers for home theater, aside from the M60's or M80's, cause I do not have enough to be able to afford those two models.

I thought I'd ask all of you and see if your opinions/advice falls along the same as Joe's, Brent's, and Alan's.

Thanks again.

I currently using M22's for mains, a vertical M2 as center and QS4's as surrounds. We couldn't be happier with the speakers-it's a great setup for music and gives us a great home theater experience. When I set up my system, I went inexpensive on the sub and receiver. (The impending arrival of what are now 3 month old twin boys made cost savings a necessity.) I have a 10" Dayton sub and an HK AVR130 receiver. This system is really working out great for us. A better receiver and a Hsu sub are in the works, but it will be a while. I think you'll be blown away by the M22's, they are just plain great speakers. The M2 vertical center turned out to be a great cost saving option for me. The recent posts about adding another M2 in parallel has tweaked my interest-but it is not yet a burning desire or absolute necessity. The Qs4's fill out the home theater experience in our room very nicely. I'm curious about how the Qs8's would sound, but the Qs4's are making us very happy at present. Hope this helps you out. My thoughts and prayers to you and your wife.

Anybody, please?

I plan on placing my order here pretty soon. I don't care if you're not owners of either of the speakers in question. I mean, just what you know and have heard about them would be helpful to me.

Thanks

Hello SutterCane,

Hope you are well. I have not heard either the VP100 or the VP150, but neither one will allow a smooth 80Hz crossover, you will need to run a 100Hz crossover.

Frequency response for the VP100 is 95Hz to 22kHz +/-3db, and the VP150 is 85Hz to 22kHz +/-3db. This is the reason I chose two M2s for my center channel since they have a 70Hz to 22kHz +/-3db frequency response, which allows a very easy 80Hz crossover. Looking at the NRC data for the M2 shows that at 80Hz they are at 87db 1watt/1meter at 80Hz. If Axiom would develop a ported center channel design then this would be moot.

Later,

TonyM

If music isn't an issue I'll guess you will be happier with the 22s. I can only extrapolate from my knowledge of the 3s and 60s. The warmer bottom end of the 50s will not be an advantage for HT, but the 22s clear mids likely would be.

i would go with what the boys at axiom are telling you.. we always hear nothing but good things about the M22's, and looks like you have already decided on the VP150 and QS4's.

i think you get a good sub with that, and you should be good to go!!

bigjohn

Oh hey Tony, I meant on the M22's and the M50's.

I read the comparison that Ken, Peter and Adam did on these two speakers, I was just trying to get a feel on which of the two most people would consider the better speaker for home theater use, not so much music.

I had called in yesterday to place my order, I had decided on the M22's, but as the darn phone began to ring, I started questioning my decision.

I had the M50's before, and I loved them, but after talking with several of the guys at Axiom, they all told me the M22's would be an upgrade from the M50's and would be far better for home theater due to their better imaging, soundstage and clearer sound.

I'm just wondering if everybody else feels the same way, or if anybody thinks the M50's would be the way to go.

Truth be told, I quess I probably should just shut up and order what I had planned on ordering. It's not like I have anything to lose. If I don't like them or feel the M50's are better, I can simply just send them back and re-order what I had before, which were the M50's.

Anyways, I'm fixin to place my order within the next hour or two. Any opinions/advice would be greatly appreciated from all who reads this post. It doesn't matter to me if you guys own either of these two speakers or not. Just what you know or have heard about them would be helpful to me.

Thanks.

Let's not sweep the subwoofer issue under the rug. If your primary goal is HT, then the M22+sub would probably be better than the M50 by itself. Get a good sub and go with the M22.

Tom:

Oh I am! I'm getting an HSU sub shortly.

SutterCane, I have not heard the M50s so I cannot compare. However, I have the M22s with a sub for my HT and music needs. I love it and occasionally annoy my co-workers as I wax poetically about the beauty of Axiom speakers! I do yearn for a pair of M60s, but that is upgradeitis more than need.
If the folks at Axiom steer you towards M22s and a sub, I would follow their advice. I have yet to read someone stating that they followed Axiom's advice and were unhappy with the result.
Perhaps I have missed it, but why are you 'stuck' (from what I see) on getting the M50s? Because you had them before, they are floor standing, have a lower freq response, look better to you, or if you get the M50s you cannot get a sub? If it is a matter of sub or no sub I very much would recommend the M22s with a sub over the M50s alone. The differance for HT will be significant and noticable.
I think you solved your own dilema with "I guess I probably should just shut up and order what I had planned on ordering. It's not like I have anything to lose. If I don't like them or feel the M50's are better, I can simply just send them back and re-order what I had before".

jr

SutterCane,
I hate to be the dark voice here but if you like the sound of the M50's keep in mind that the M22's sound nothing like the M50's. I'm honestly a little lost as to why Axiom would point you in the 22's direction when you have been more then happy with the M50's? There is nothing wrong with either of these speakers but as a guy who has had both at the same time I must say again that these speakers are night and day in terms of the sound they provide.

...........and this is for the folks at Axiom not you SutterCane.

In reply to:

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talking with several of the guys at Axiom, they all told me the M22's would be an upgrade from the M50's and would be far better for home theater due to their better imaging, soundstage and clearer sound.

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That is complete BS! I have no idea why they would say that but they can list all the fancy speakers terms they want but at the end of the day, I don't buy it. If that is the case then the price of the M50's should be in-line with the M22's as they are a sub-par speaker according to Axiom. I had my M22's running as mains with a SVS Ultra for all of 3 or 4 day's before going back to with the M50's. Anyway, sorry guy's but all the comments against the M50's in here that come from Axiom are really getting to me as I don't buy most of it.

At the end of the day I went with M50's over the M22's as mains. To me they do a better job with HT and music.....The day is coming when I'm going to stop defending these poor M50's and just get some MA's and be done with it.

Hello SutterCane,

Hope you are well. I agree with everyone here, the M22s with a sub will sound much better than the M50s did. The M22s have a beautiful frequency response on and off axis. I own a pair of M2s that use one of the M22s 5.25" woofers, and the detail is incredible. The M2s are supposed to sound very much like the M22s, I believe you will be happy with the M22s.

The M2s I have blend beautifully with the sub with an 80Hz crossover, and so will the M22s.

Later,

TonyM

Neverhappy:

The biggest reason I got from the people I spoke with at Axiom, was due to the M22's imaging and soundstage. That and they told me the M22's are clearer sounding speakers.

They then went on to tell me that I'd get less dynamics out of the 22's then what I'd get from the M50's, and that the M50's would provide me with a much fuller sound. To tell you the honest truth, they just confused me more then they did help me. lol

I mean, after they shared with me what they did about the M22's, then the M50's, I was like ok, so which would be better for home theater applications. That's my main concern, not so much musically. At that point they just gave me their opinion of course, cause as we all know it's all very subjective. Which was for the three I spoke with, were the M22's.

Oh, someone asked a question about the sub. The answer is no. I'm getting a new sub regardless of which speakers I go with. I'm just simply trying to get the best speakers for what I need/want them for, which in my case is home theater.

In the end, I'll probably stick with my orginal game plan and give the M22's a shot. I've owned nothing but floor standing speakers in the past, and for reasons I don't want to get into, primarly because the list is long. lol I'm just kind of burnt out on them.

Well, ok, I'll list a few. My wife and I move a lot, kind of comes with her job. Floor standing speakers are bigger, heavier, and a headache to have to move, not to mention they're not as easy to position when having to mess around with placement.

I thought going witht he M22's would be a good idea because you tend to have more flexability with bookshelf speakers, plus after all the rave reviews I've be hearing about the M22's, especially when paired with a sub, I figured it would be the best way to go.

Now with all that said, I'm all for the best in preformance. Unfortunately I can't swing the M60's or M80's, so the best I'd be able to do in a floor standing speaker would be the M50's. Yes, I did like the M50, I liked them a lot. However, I'm just trying to get the very best home theater speakers I can for what I have to spend.

Get the M22s. Practically every movie you get these days is mixed with a subwoofer in mind, crossed over at 80 Hz. All the fullness of the M50s is cancelled out by that crossover. The M22s are clearer and more precise in the upper ranges, and really DO throw a more 'holographic' soundstage than the M50s.

M22, M22, M22. M50s? Been there, done that.

for real suttercane, you seem to me like you are about to 'think' yourself out of getting axioms all together. you are gettin kinda 'girly' over this decision. just make a choice, and go with it. the worst thing that can happen is that you will end up with an awesome set of speakers regardless of which way you go.

your not pickin out bridesmaids dresses here man.. if you liked the 50's, then just do it!! its all gonna be good.. i think you are stressing out over this WAY too much.

EDIT- oh, i just thought of this after i posted.. my dad used to tell me, "quit actin like a virgin on prom night, and make up your damn mind".. he was such a wise ole basterd!!

bigjohn

LOL BigJohn, I like that. lol

Dude believe it or not I'm really not stressing, regardless of how it comes across on here.

However, I have. I'm going with my orginal game plan. I'm going to get the M22's. I'll be honest, I have yet to decide just which way I'm going to go as far as the center channel and surrounds go, but hell I'm not worried about in the least. I'll just make that decision at the time of order.

Knowing me and my damn spending habits, I really can't quite afford to go with the M22's, the VP150, and the QS8's, but ya know what, I probably will anyways. lol

And why, because they're the best, and I am one who is used to having nothing less then the best. lol

A spoiled little $hit I am! lol

What's scrary is it's already starting to rub off on my daughter, and she's only 20 months old. God help me! lol

Kurt,

You already KNOW what the 50s sound like. Get the 22s and you'll know how BOTH sound. If you like the 22s, keep them. If you don't like them, return them within the 30 day period and go back to the 50s. Either way, your decision will be an informed one based on personal experience, and you'll be able to rest your mind. However, don't judge the 22s until you get the sub to go with them. If home theater is your primary listening goal, for HT, I found the 22s, with my STF-2, to be absolutely flawless.

You're right that the 22s are a little easier to deal with because of size, but they will still work best on stands in a position away from reflective surfaces where they can "breathe."

Thanks Jack, that's what I've decided on. I found some really awsome stands at www.standandmounts.com that I like. I'll be ordering them soon, but I do have something to place them on untill I can get the stands ordered.

I'm going to use them for a while cause I've got my sub to pay for next, just as soon as CraigSub makes it back from vacation. lol

LOL! Are you buying one of Craig's subs? Cripes, is there ANYBODY who hasn't bought one of Craig's subs? Which one are you getting?

Kurt,

As you know, I ordered the m50s to compare with my m22s, side by side. I ordered them because I thought the 22s were a little too forward for my tastes and thought that the m50s would be slightly less forward. I found the m50s to be too laid back, to the point of being boring. If you had the m50s alone, you would probably find them to be an adequate speaker. Initially, upon comparing the two, I found the differences between them to be minor. After about 2 weeks the gulf had widened and there was not any way I could justify keeping the m50s. Everyone in my household told me that the 22s were a much better speaker. They were anticipating the return of the 50s anxiously.

My advice would be to give the m22s a try. If you find you cannot live with their sound you could return them to Buffalo for $20. Then you could order the m50s, or the m3s which many have said sound similar.

LittleB:

I'll admit, I had some doubts at first, but I've pretty much lost any doubts I had about the M22's. I mean how in the heck could so many people be wrong about them ya know. lol

I'll be ordering my setup this evening. Once ordered I'll let everybody know what I went with. I can assure everyone right now, that the M22's are defiantly going to be ordered. I'm just still a little up in the air as far as which way I'll go for the center channel and surrounds, but I'm not worried about it. I'll make my final decison at the time of order.


Jack:

LOL, yes I am my friend. lol
I plan on purchasing one of his HSU VTF-3MKII subs.