Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo M80's or Rockets, and a new receiver

Hello all,

I’ve got the itch to buy some quality audio gear. My last real purchase was about 10 years ago. I am a complete audio idiot. I turn it on, twist a couple knobs and I either like the way is sounds, or I don’t.

I have a big log house with a 26’ X 32’ great room that has a loft above it. The loft floor is at the ten foot level above the great room. It is open to the pitched ceiling peak, which is 25’. Sound carries very well in this entire area. Currently, I have a 46” TV in the loft and I’m using a Bose system (yes, I have the balls to admit it) for my HT. I got the speaker only kit pretty cheap, and it works OK in this small area. What I need now is a good set of speakers for the great room and a good receiver with 2 zones. I’ll place the tower speakers downstairs and run them off the HT receiver's second zone.

That being said, I’ve been researching speakers and receivers for about a month now, and as a result, I have less hair, frequent headaches and I’m more confused now than when I started. In my searches and discoveries, my speaker short list is the M80’s and the Onyx 750 Rockets. I can get both B stocked speakers for right at $1000, so cost comparison isn’t an issue. For your reference, while I was speaker shopping, I really liked the way the B&W 703’s and Paradigm Studio 100’s sounded. At $3000 and $2400, neither of those two will come home with me……

After speaking with Axiom, they recommend Denon, HK or NAD to power the 80’s. I’m considering the Denon 3805, HK 7200 or 7200-Z and NAD 763. My total allowance is $2000 for the speakers and receiver. I don’t have a lot of spare time to read owners manuals, tweak, play and experiment. A user friendly receiver definitely gets points with me. Oh, and can you recomend one of those remote IR sensors for the second zone remote?

Thanks in advance for your input.

……….mike

first off, welcome mike.. WOW, that a lot of info in a relatively short 'i need help' kinda post.

as far as the M80's, with that size room, they would be perfect for your needs. i have the M60's in a 26x28 room, and they are more than enough. the M80's are supposed to sound very similar to the M60's, just louder. the M80's will reach uncomfortable volume levels, and remain constant with a crisp and clean sound all the way.

now, for a receiver, you have narrowed your choices down very well.. i have heard nothing but great things about the denon 3805. it can handle the 4ohm load of the M80's, and has the dual zone with plenty of power that you are going to need. you also need to keep in mind, regardless of which receiver you choose, you WILL need to spend sometime getting it set-up and inputting your initial settings. so there will be some reading of the owners manual and tweaking involved.. but, once you get the settings where you like them, its pretty much power on/off, and you are good to go. the set up on my receiver(onkyo 701) took about 1 1/2 hours. you can expect that and maybe a little more with any receiver, but once its set, you wont have to mess with it again.

well, hope i have helped some.. good luck in your choices.. i gotta tell ya though, there are gonna be a lot of us to try and get you to replace that bose HT system with some axioms.. you are a brave man!!

bigjohn

Hi Mike, Welcome.

I know what you mean about being overwhelmed by the audio research. Try to enjoy the journey.

It sounds like you have zeroed in on products that will make you happy. You've probably already done so, but I'd urge you to search and browse these forums for a while, because the Axiom v. Rocket stuff seems to come up about once a month. There really is no substitute for you listening to both brands (even if not the same exact model) and deciding for yourself. The Questions/Answers forum has a section for Axiom owners who are willing to give auditions.

Any of those receivers will likely make you pretty happy. Lots of people here have had good luck with Denons, myself included (albeit at a much lower level in the line).

Bigjohn's right (most of the time) - once you get that new setup, you're going to start making a "Mr Yuck" face when you listen to the Bose.

What kind of music will you be listening to in the two-channel (downstairs) area?

Keep us posted. Oh, and we like pictures

Mdrew - Welcome!

You'll probably end up going with a better surround set up after you've tasted something better than BOSE, but we'll see.

As for the second room IR repeater/flasher, try the hot link system out. I currently use it to operate my components in a single room, with the components placed out of the way (I'm also able to control the repeater from a second your, if the infra-red reflections are just right). They sell additional lengths of repeater wire to run into a second room. I find that my components actually respond better with the hot link attached (even those is direct sight of the remote). The cost is around $100 for the sensor and a 6 component ribbon that stretches 7 feet. Additional feet of repeater ribbon will be a bit more, I would assume.

I got mine on ebay for aroun $80, new out of the box. I bet if you looked there, you'd see the same seller who sold me mine offering the identical deal.

The repeater technology is fairly cool - the device is pretty discrete, and you can place the sensor on the wall behind your TV (not even directly viewing the remote). The reflections bounce off the back wall and into the ligt sensor (which is apparently much more sensitive to the IR signal than a normal component IR detector.

Give it a try, you appreciate the convenience.

Thank you for your responses and the welcome. Seems like a nice place with a bunch of courteous folks here.

OK, in defense of the Bose crap….., I wanted better sound than just the TV and was wandering through Sam’s club one day. They had the series 10 lifestyle system without the cheesy DVD / Receiver for $550. Seemed like a good deal, so I bought it. The TV area is quite small, 10 X 10. I’m sitting about 6’ away from the TV. The little Bose speakers fill this area with plenty of sound. BUT, I am building a REAL HT room in the basement. Unfortunately, I’m busier than a one legged man in a but kicking contest, so this area will not be complete for about another year. When it is, I’m going all out on a new system. The receiver I’m looking to buy now, and the speakers will go downstairs with it. Well, maybe not the speakers....I don't know yet. I might just keep them in the great room and buy a killer two channel receiver. - but the reciever I'm buyin now will definately go downstairs.

I live in a rural area of Alaska. That’s what drew me to on-line companies. The Rockets appeal to me because they are soooo darn good looking. I have hickory wood floors, cherry cabinets, knotty pine ceilings, red cedar logs and railings and black garnet counters/back splashes. The speakers will be out in the open and the Rockets would look pretty darn good. Plus, they get good reviews and the price is right.

The M80’s appeal to me because of all the drivers. I don’t know squat about speakers, but it sure seems logical to me that a speaker with all those drivers would react quicker and sound better. Plus 4 ohm / 400 watts….they just gotta sound good!!

As far as my listening tastes go, it’s primarily rock of some sort. Anything from AC/DC to Pink Floyd to the new rock, like Vertical Horizon & Fuel. I like country and that Celtic / rock mix stuff too. The only thing I don’t like, (detest really) is anything remotely close to rap or dance.

I don’t mind playing around to set something up, it’s just all the frigging options and menu’s some of these new receivers have……..I’ll never take the time to play with all the options. I’d rater be out riding and getting muddy.

Thanks for that link Skipper!! Way cool.

If you are worried about real world power for your receiver than the HK 7200 is easily the most powerful of the group of receivers you are looking at. Processing wise the 3805 is the most up to date but having had both I can tell you that the 7200 is much more robust although when switching from digital sources there is a 2 second or so delay til it locks onto and deciphers the signal (ie, DD5.1, DTS5.1, etc). It also is 21.5 inches deep and weighs about 55lbs so it requires a bit of a comittment. The 7200 will easily drive the M80's. I believe Sound and Vision tested it at an actual 143 Watts per channel with 5 channels driven. The 7200 is last year's model as the 7300 is now available so it can be had for $800 US or less at the moment.

Mike,

The Rockets and Axioms are both contenders, along with a few others, for the "best bang for the buck" title. Both companies make quality products and have fabulous customer service (run a "customer service" search on this forum for the last 6 months and see what you come up with.)

The Rockets ARE beautiful. Real wood veneer, but you pay for that. Axioms are far from ugly. Have you seen the custom finishes available? Also vinyl can be an asset when you slop something on them, or your kid doodles on them with a magic marker.

Commonly, you'll hear the Rockets referred to positively as "warm," or "laid back" (negative terms for the same thing are "muffled," or "muddy") The Axioms are positively referred to as "accurate," or "detailed" (negatively, as "bright" or "harsh.") A decision like the one you face is purely subjective. It all depends on your hearing, your room, your tastes, and what you had for breakfast this morning. It's THAT subjective.

The best way to tell is to order them and listen to them in your own environment. Of course, if you don't like them, you end up eating the return shipping costs, and from Alaska, who knows.

This whole thing can be mind numbing and frustrating. Hang in there.

P.S. Before I bought my Axioms, I owned Bose 301s.

Mike, I'll throw votes for the 3805 and the M80s. Jack's input for comparison between Axioms and Rockets was spot on. I'd as soon spend my money on the hearing part vs. the seeing part - hence the Axiom recommendation.

By the way, the B&W 703s sound very much like the M60s. The main difference between the M60s and M80s - the M80s have more headroom. If you like the B&W 703s, you will like the M80s.

Couple of other things. If you are thinking about surrounds, the Axiom QS8s are superior. Also, with a choice of the M80s, you end up with available dollars for the sub you will need for that sized room. I heartily recommend SVS, but HSU could be another choice. I'd suggest you call & talk to SVS - thee are stellar folks and will give you some expert guidance on the choice of sub to fill that that room you described with LFE.

Hope the info is helpful.

Ray

Hiya Mike,

Well, since Ray brought it up... Even 2-channel audio in a room that size might benefit from a subwoofer, and you are certainly going to want one when you get the dedicated HT room done. So keep that in mind.

Everybody here has had some version of "that Bose crap" (as you put it) in their audio past. I had Electrophonic speakers in the 1970's. They were absolutely horrible; much worse than any Bose product. Big, though.

In reply to:

---

hickory wood floors, cherry cabinets, knotty pine ceilings, red cedar logs and railings

---

Mike, that sounds just glorious. Post the damn pictures, already! I'd echo the suggestion about looking at how the Axiom custom finishes might work in your space.

And now, much to the dismay of those board regulars who have suffered this diatribe before, you have initiated my "American union values" sequence.

How much of that wonderful, natural wood in your home was harvested outside North America? I'm betting a number darn close to 0%. Many people are seduced by the perceived quality of the Rocket finishes, but take little time to consider that the "exotic" woods used come from Africa and South America, and that the product itself is manufactured in China. Now, neither Axiom nor SVS can claim 100% of the final product originates in North America, but each does the assembly here, supports living-wage jobs in our communities, and strives to minimize the value of imported parts and components. I'd rather support an American (or Canadian) "company" than just a "distributor".

So, when I listen to my Axioms, it makes me feel good to know that I not only got a great product for a fair price, but also that my patronage helped support a company whose hiring and manufacturing processes embody values similar to my own.

Don't even get me started about Sam's Club. Wal-Mart is the great satan.

One of the great things about this board is that we all have passions, and are united by our love for audio.

(/rant)

Axiom is a good company, with good people and wonderful products.

Thanks for all the input. I’ll try to post some pictures, but I’m not to savvy at it. Might end up sending them to you directly.

The sub for this area is not an option, but thanks anyway. There just isn’t anywhere to put the frigging thing. There’s no cubby’s or out of the way areas. It would have to be right out in the open where folks would trip over it. This area is completely open with windows everywhere. Even finding a place to put the speakers and then arrange the furniture around them is going to be a chore. My original plan was to run ceiling speakers with a whole home audio system. But after listening to many, I’ve ditched that Idea. I’ll let the next owners do that. I have the house wired for it, but didn’t purchase the hardware.

I think I’m just going to have to buy both speakers. Keep the set I like best, send the other back. The shipping will be outrageous as there is no ground shipping to Alaska. Everything will be overnight Fed-X or UPS. Wonder if the two companies would pop for the shipping if posted a review from an ordinary every day guy??? I haven’t been able to find a shot out or comparative analysis of these two speakers.

Does anyone know what the difference is between the HK 7200 and 7200-Z?? The Z I can get from HK direct as a factory reconditioned unit, or I can get the 7200 from a couple on line shops. Both are priced about the same.