Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners What's Wrong with Axiom Subs?

I have been lurking around here for quite a while and have finally pulled the trigger on my Axiom system. It was a "welcome home from the desert" present from my wife. One thing that I have noticed as I read through the boards....a lot of people here that seem to be more knowledgable than myself in all things hi-fi never seem to opt in for the Axiom subs such as the EP125,EP175 or EP350. I would be curious to know why. I see a large following to Hsu and SVS. Am I missing something here?

ola, and welcome home from the desert from me!!

you ask a question that has been asked a million times before, so here goes..

there is NOTHING wrong with axiom subs.. they are very good subs.. but, the general idea is that for the money you pay for the 175 or the 350, you can get a BETTER sub from SVS or HSU. it is widely considered that the SVS and HSU's are the best value in bang for bucks bass.. their frequency response tends to be a little lower(into the 16-25Hz range) for about the same price.

the main draw back is in their finish.. if you get the axioms sub, you can get it in the same finish to match the rest of the speakers.. the SVS and HSU's are not avail in as many colors and finishes, and that can sometimes be a negative in the eyes of the 'significient other'.. but, let me say again, you will not be disappointed with an axiom sub.. they are just as well made as the rest of the speakers in the axiom line.

BTW- what system did you ordr?? what color?? what kinda receiver you got?? send pics!!!

bigjohn

Big John,
Being in the military overseas, you find that space is often a commodity (read: military quarters). So my system had to be built accordingly. I went with M22s for the fronts, VP150 for the center, M2s for the rears, an EP 350 sub, and QS8s for the surrounds. Everything with the exception of the sub and center was light maple with white grills. (neutral color to blend with the walls, the boss still wants to know why we aren't getting a nice small and tidy Bose system "like everyone else") Everything but the sub and center will be wall mounted, so its actually only the sub that does not fall in line with my lack of space plan. The sub and center are going to be the Boston Cherry to match our our Belgian entertainment center (that will "remain in the family long after I am gone") The money that I had been setting aside was actually going to be a new HDTV, but, again, the boss nixed that one in order to preserve the aforementioned entertainment center (she knew I wanted to go for the big screen) So I decided to keep our Panasonic 32" HDTV and upgrade the sound system, a 9 year old Klipsch Rebel home theater system with Technics towers. Yep, that's right, Klipsch Rebel, you never see those mentioned anymore. I will be mating all of these speakers to a Denon 3802. Had given thought to upgrading that, but realize it would be hard to justify that one. I think it will suit our purposes nicely. Its actually been sort of humorous...... (as I have been spending the past couple of evenings studying my Denon Owner's Manual) I could tell you more than you ever wanted to know about the aerodynamics associated with rotary and fixed wing flight, but I all too often put that manual down scratching my head when confronted with the specifics associated with 6.1, 7.1, etc. So, we'll see how it goes. Thanks for responding to (as we say in the Army) the FNG.

i spent 3 years in the army back in 91-94, so i feel the pain of your military quarters. i was stationed at fort bragg, so i spent much time watching the apaches come in and out of simmons army air field!!

your 3802 will push these speakers just fine.. i think the only major upgrade from the 3802 to the newer 3805 is the 3805 has Pro Logic IIx and 10 more watts per channel.. big whoop!! no need for improvement there, the 3802 will be great for your needs. from what i have been told, the denon manuals are a little hard to readm and can be confusing.. so stick with it, and try to absorb.. i kept my manual in the bathroom for about 3 months and read it, well, you get the point.. anyway, after 3 months, i knew the dang thing almost cover to cover.. call it multi-tasking??

enjoy your new system, i am sure you will be very impressed. make sure and post any questions or concerns on here, these guys are real helpful.. and there are many with denon products that will be very informative for you.. that EP350 is gonna rock your world, so be prepared.

you have 2 posts now.. so you are no longer the FNG..

bigjohn

I think you'll be more than happy with that system, AVG8TOR. The EP350 is pretty musical and has plenty of slam.

Greetings,
I've listened to both the EP175 & EP350 in my system before going with a Hsu STF-3. The Axioms were fine, but Hsu specializes in subs, and to my ear sounded lower and better.
Your results may vary...
b.

That should be a awesome system, have tons of fun with it. and BigJohn is right, the 3802 will be fine with your speakers....

I love the 3805, and PLIIx is awesome......also the 3805 has some upconversion stuff that the 3802 doesn't and auto-setup, there are quite a few new features that BJ isn't aware of *poke poke*

But as far as speakers go, the 3802 and Axioms will rock your world.

- D

OK, experts, here's an axiom sub question for you:
Background: I have an empty 14'x19' media room just waiting for me to fill it up. I have appt's to let local Home Theater (Tweeter and HomeTheaterStore) guys look at the space and make recommendations, but I have doubts that I will give them my money.
So, I'm seriously considering Axioms and every time a walk through the Axoim 'wizard' it ends up recommending TWO subs. Can anyone tell me if and why 2 EP175's would be better than 1 EP350?

Thanks,
Wyatt

It would give you more volume and you could move them around more to ensure good bass for the entire listening area.
I'm not sure I'd do that though. If the ceilings aren't inordinately high, or there aren't too many openings, it sounds like a pretty easy room to fill with bass.

How bout another brand of sub - I got a Velodyne CHT-8 after reading a lot on ecoustics. The word was that SVS and Hsu were the best, but that the velodyne CHT line was pretty good and cheaper.

Is that your take on it? The have a cheaper line which is NOT recommended and a more expensive line (or lines) which may be close to the HSU and SVS.

Anyone heard the CHT line? (8, 10 and 12 inch woofers).

Well, the EP350 and the VP150 both arrived last night. Was not sure I should hook them up without having the other speakers here. I couldn't wait, decided to hook them up and see....the sub rocks. I did the test tones on my Denon with the sub set up in the recommended configuration.....we have yet to find the dog, I think she decided to move out. The VP 150 does seem very detailed, but this could be just as much a product of running the audio soley out of two fronts prior to that for 3 months. Either way, I am happy. Long story short, the neighbors are happy for me, but they also have the MP's number on speed dial while they wait for my other six speakers to arrive. hehe

Thanks BigWill,
I am also wondering about subs, crossovers, and squarewaves. The bigger the speaker, the higher the mass, the more difficult it is to 'turn around' so sounds like percussion aren't as sharp. Conversely, you need a large excursion to get the low notes and larger speakers can better move air around.
I am really trying to find a system that would accurately play music one moment and the "rock the block" with a DVD explosion the next without me having to reach behind the sub to adjust the settings. I have a CD that has previously revealed ugly sounding subs: Billy Cobham's "Warning". The last track has some syth bass notes that sound all uneven if your sub settings aren't damn near perfect.

-Wyatt

I have a Billy Cobham, but unfortunately it doesn't have that tune on the disc. Ini Kamoze's old hit "Hotstepper" has some great bass on it, too, but not ridiculously low.

It's unfortunate that Craigsub hasn't chimed in here - he is a sub expert (and all around audio expert) whose advice you can certainly trust.

I'm sure I'll get corrected, but I think the little micro-subs, with their sealed design and huge amps aren't very good. Kind of muffled and indistinct. They can go low and loud, but I haven't liked the few I've heard.

The cheap Velodyne line is a larger ported sub, right? Probably about the same as all the other ported box designs, IMO. Differences between the good ones due mainly to driver and enclosure size, amp power, and driver quality.

I really liked the SVS 20-39 for HT from the brief demo I was given. We didn't listen to any music, but it rumbled and thumped without any boominess at all. You could really feel the distinct LF effects as opposed to them being resonant and boomy. If I had to do it over, even though I am more than satisfied with the EP350, that is probably the one I'd buy (SVS PC+ 20-39, that is).

BigWill... I have not posted on this topic only because I have not heard an Axiom subwoofer. I DO have an idea for Alan Lofft and Amie... Alan was put off a bit in our floorstanding speaker review because I was using a small, 8 inch, Hsu subwoofer with the Ascend 340's.

Alan... Here is another thought. I own a pair of M-22ti's AND the VDP-150 center channel. Since the M22ti's AND the EP-350 subwoofer would add up to $1020 delivered, If you would like, rather than the M-80's, I would be happy to review the M-22/EP-350 combo as a system... and compare it to the ELT-CSE/UFW-10 and 340/STF-1... Three bookshelf designs with each company's subwoofers.

Comments ?

Wyatt, on the point about bigger speakers not sounding as "sharp", this isn't necessarily the case. First, all subwoofers are inherently "slow" in that the 20-100Hz frequencies that they cover are very slow in relation to the rest of the audio range. As long as the magnet for the bigger driver is correspondingly more powerful, the subwoofer range is just as well-controlled as a smaller sub would be(see Dr. Toole's discussion of this point on page 11 of his paper). Another point is that to the extent that a low frequency sound seems sharp or fast, it's due almost entirely to the upper harmonics of the low note, which are reproduced by the mid-range speaker, not the sub. A check on this point can be had by playing a CD which has some low notes which sound sharply defined, but with all speakers but the sub disconnected. The result is in no way "fast".