Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Upgrading the whole lot....

The wife has gone and upgraded us from Townhouse to house and more importantly from room 10 x 12 to 19 x 21. Room has an opening in the middle of the room (5 ft wide) that opens to the kitchen, so seating area is 12 - 16 ft back. I have a Marantz 7200 with a nice small BA 90X surround set. As much as I like the speakers, I feel I HAVE to upgrade the speakers as well. Pity me. I will not take possession of the house until next April, but need to give a layout for the HT pre-wire now. I have been very interested in the Axioms over the last couple of years, and see this as an opportunity. I know enough to hurt myself but not enough to move forward. So, I thought the site of the best speakers would have the best boards. From what I have seen, this is true. SO:

1. M60 - VP100 - QS4 - ep175 - is it enough?
2. QS4s - side or back mounted?
3. In wall wire - 12 or 14 or 16 gauge?

Thanks in advance for ANY answer.

Do I see a DLP in my future as well....

Rick

Welcome, Rick. If the decision that's first is the wiring layout, keep in mind that the side surrounds are primarily for, well, surround effects from the side, although some effects from the back can be produced. So, the wiring for them should be to a sidewall location even with, or just slightly behind the sitting position. Although you're apparently considering a 5.1 setup, it appears that you'll have enough room behind the seating to make 7.1 a consideration, especially at the wiring stage(e.g. wiring points about 10' apart on the back wall). As to gauge, check the old reliable table here . 14 ga should be plenty for even the longest run you might need.

Last but not least(better not be), the speakers. In a room that size a more powerful sub might be advisable. As I often do, I'll also suggest that a vertical M2 or M22 center be considered rather than a horizontal configuration.

I would go with the largest speaker you can get away with. As for the rears if you are choosing dipoles the best place is side mounted. Go for broke and enjoy the set up.

go with the VP150 u won't b disappointed

Rocco,

1. get the Epic80 without the sub. Buy an SVS sub. Might as well go all out and get the best, you won't regret it.

2. QS8's, side mounted at listening position, about 7 feet up from the groung.

3. 12ga

For the speakers, I would go for as much as your budget allows. The room is good sized; I would be tempted to get the QS8's and Vp150. I don't have personal experience with the M60's. Hopefully, one of the other members can help you out here.
The 14 AWG wire, as JohnK recommended is what I would do too. Bigger doesn't always mean that it's better.

I would side mount the QS's and slightly behind the listening area, Alan our resident expert recommends using a step ladder to find the optimal location. There are a lot of placement posts and documents here. This will help you.

The subwoofer is critical; I would try to get something powerful like an SVS. Again, I don't have experience with the Axiom subwoofers I'm sure there fine. I would research subwoofers until you find a solution. The whole idea here is the most bang for your buck.

Good luck Rick!

Tom

Johnk,

Yeah, I am going to talk to them about wiring for 7.1, even though I am a 6.1 receiver. Cheaper and easier now i figure.

I will look at the upgraded sub (the one i have now I think is a 125 so if I double the room - double the sub!) and have not heard of a vertical so will look into it.

About a week to layout out the wiring, 9 months to research before even getting the house.....not good

Instead of the SVS sub take a look at the LFM Outlaw sub. In the reviews I have read it matches the SVS in almost everything at a much lower cost. It has a much smaller footprint then the SVS. I just got mine in yesterday and am VERY happy.

www.outlaw.com

Sorry but the SVS and the LFM are 2 totally different subs. Forget the bias reviewers and check the specs (Factual, not the companies) and the differences are rather large. The LFM has been noted by many people to bottom out or slap with some hard passages in the 25 to 29 range and the SVS doesn't even break a sweat. For that matter nor do the HSU's.

Don't get me wrong here I'm sure the LFM is a decent sub but the Outlaw is not a SVS or HSU.

NeverHappy...

There have been reports of SVS subs bottoming out as well.

The LFM-1 is very similar to the Hsu STF-3. The LFM-1 is engineered by Hsu with Outlaw's design considerations.

There is a comparison of the LFM-1 and PB2-ISD....and the LFM-1 did quite favorably.

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/SVS_subsPB2-ISD_OutlawLFM-1_1.php

Just so you know Dr. Hsu himself designed the LFM for Outlaw Audio. I haven’t seen the specifications yet. I like The SVS stuff; I think they build good quality subs.

Yes I'm aware that HSU had a hand in the Outlaw. Like I said before don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Outlaw is a bad sub....actually far from it. But the SVS hammers harder, deeper and with far more then control then the Outlaw. I don't however put much stock into the Audioholics web-site. I'm in the minority saying that but I have seen some reviews from them that are nothing more then biased opinions from some dude with a pen and not much else. I must admit however that I see they agree with my thoughts on the SVS. Maybe there is hope for them yet......but wait.....is that another advertiser at the door?

I don't like reviews from average Joe either. However, I do trust people in forums like this. The people here won't blow too much smoke and know what they’re talking about.
I didn't take your post the wrong way. I am very partial to SVS too. I think they build quality subs. I just wanted you to know that Hsu had a part in the design for Outlaw.

My understanding was that Outlaw consulted Dr. Hsu, and that he gave them some specific recommendations on the design rather than creating the actual design. In any case, Dr. Hsu's fingerprints do seem to be all over it (figuratively speaking).

Neverhappy - was curious where you've seen those reports? I own an LFM-1 and to my knowledge have not had any problem with it bottoming out. I've cranked it up a few times (not an everyday occurence) and it seems to stay strong and tight to my ears.

In any event, I would appreciate it if you could post a link to a review that indicated this problem. I would like to see if there's something I am missing with my own sub. thanks.

ericb, what I posted isn't from reviews, it comes from people I know that own them. I put zero stock in reviews and that includes Audio Review. I have seen stuff get glowing reviews from well respected magazines or web-sites etc that never should have gotten it. Chances are you will never hear it unless you want to get down and dirty and start playing in the 25 and under world. That is were the LFM will start to show it's weakness............but by just watching a movie or listening to music, you are not going to get there very often to say the least.

I actually had my SVS tuned down to 10 for a bit and it will actually go down to 5. Doing 10 with zero distortion, zero slapping and still maintaining control at that level is something very few subs can do. I tried the same thing with a Servo from Paradigm and it couldn't handle it. I also tried it with my old Boston Acoustics VR-500 and it needed to go in for repairs after I was done!

People..... don't read to much into my posts. The LFM from all accounts is a fine sub. My point was it's not a SVS! I know 2 people who have them at this moment and one guy is actually running 2 as he thought one was a little weak for what he wanted. Both have been to my house and both stated that my SVS was playing in a different world all together. That was there opinion, not mine I'm simply repeating it.

Coming from a guy named "NeverHappy", that is pretty glowing praise.

Neverhappy - hey, no problem. I was just curious, that's all. I tend to over-analyze my purchases which, given the fact that I don't have an open checkbook to buy my audio gear, makes it all the more important to get it right.

Regarding your assessment of reviews and reviewers, I tend to agree with you. Buyer beware, because you never know what rules some of these sites and magazines play by. In the case of the Audioholics review I have some personal experience that tells me that the reviewer made a decent assessment of the product based on what I can observe with the sub. I can't vouch for any of their other reviews, with the exception of the M22ti (again, right on the money based on my experience). They do seem to be one of the few sites that will give out a negative review from time to time (not too many, don't want to scare off the advertisers! )

I very much respect the SVS products and had thought about getting one myself before settling on the Outlaw. In the end it fit my needs (music first, HT second) and budget.

Eric, if you haven't already done so, read Tom Nousaine's tests of the LFM-1 and 11 other subs in the September issue of Sound&Vision.