Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater New Axiom Subwoofers

Home Theater & Sound's upcoming reviews lists the Axiom EP500 and EP600 subwoofers at the very top. Does anybody have any details?

Dang, and I just ordered a EP350....

Typo or just another plot to part you from your money? ......stay tuned.

The "coming soon" addition on Home Theater & Sound came as a result of an article I did on our SoundStage! site regarding the new subs. See the link below to get much more information:

See "Traveler" column:
http://www.soundstage.com/columns.shtml

Doug Schneider
www.SoundStageNetwork.com

Wow! Those subs seem incredible!

For anyone who didn't navigate all the way to Doug's article:

http://www.soundstage.com/traveler/traveler.htm

...and these just seem incredible. I can't wait to hear more.

I'm sorry but i was sworn to secrecy.
Now that the cat is out of the bag....

I was surprised that not a single person asked about the greyed out area next to the tv in the Axiom listening room after i posted the Tour pics.
No one picked out that detail? So much for the Golden "Eyes" hypothesis.

Chesseroo, you deserve to win a prize for keeping a secret this long!!!

give him a free sub!

OK...I just read that article and I'm now looking for a paper towel to clean up the drool. I was just this week looking at my Hsu and wishing it had a bit more depth, and matched the look of my speakers better.

Damn you Ian...damn you!!!! (I mean that in the best possible way!)

Homina homina homina...

My god! I was looking to get a $400ish subwoofer, but now I might just have to bump my budget a bit. To... $1150? Guess not

Any chance of a EP400 in the near future? Where the "400" refers to the price?

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you deserve to win a prize for keeping a secret this long!!!

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And you think the rest of the secrets contained in my bean make it any easier than that one?
Oh lordy.
The daily pressure i must endure.

I know of a great prize Axiom could provide. How about letting me set the price on the new subwoofers?
I'm sure that would please Ian immensely.

Yeah, tell me about it. When I was reading the article, I was thinking, there's no way I can get that EP600 into the house. But the EP500.... ack, price!

Oh well...

Sell you pets...sell your children...hell, sell your spouse. The new sub will never pee on the floor, the new sub will never talk back to you, the new sub will never nag. Sounds like a good trade to me!

We didn't REALLY want new windows in our bedroom, right?

Well, let's see...Christmas is right around the corner, so I've got to budget for girlfriend presents, friend presents and family presents. But that W2 will be in the mailbox by January 31st, so...

Hello All,

Hope you are all well. Now we see the reason Axiom allows us such latitude on this forum to talk about SVS and HSU and other subs, so they can make a product that beats them all utilizing our spy information...lol. If that EP600 is as good as it looks I will wait a year longer to purchase my sub to get it. I was looking at getting the SVS 16-46PC Plus, but if this one is cleaner with its digital processing I will wait. Going vertical with it is a great idea, kind of like a cylinder...but will match my Axioms, very nice. Hope those reviews come out soon.

Later,

TonyM

Amazing, a little out of my budget but I'm sure you'll have no problem selling them. Chess you do deserve a medal.

Can the port be retrofitted to an EP350?

LOL! What makes you think no one noticed? Because, no one asked about it? If it's grayed out, obviously you wouldn't be able to tell us what it is, so why ask.

I thought, erroneously, because of the height, that it was an equipment rack full of stuff they didn't want us to see. Why wouldn't they want us to see the equipment they use? Haven't the foggiest, but that's what I thought.

i wonder if there will be a trade in & up program?

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What makes you think no one noticed? Because, no one asked about it? If it's grayed out, obviously you wouldn't be able to tell us what it is, so why ask.

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Because it is human nature and even more so, intense curiousity being the nature of these forums.
The fact that no one even mentioned it jokingly is proof enough that the slight grey box design was not intriguing enough for anyone to ask about. Now had i made the box a big pinkish freak of art coverup instead....
Of course if anyone now states they did see the grey box after the fact this topic was mentioned reduces any credibility in such a claim to zero. Such is the nature of the scientific design principles in behavioural experimentation with colours. Yes, colour DOES make a difference in affecting the human mind.
Paint your listening rooms red and see how "hot" all your music sounds.

I'll admit it. I didn't notice the gray box before. Though even if I did, I never would have guessed subwoofer.

Wow. I want to get a job that pays more so I can buy a house, so that I can get an EP600.

wow... again... wow...

And hints of electronics... again... wow.

jr

Damn...I've just gone back and read that article and drooled on my keyboard again for the fifth time today.

I didn't see it at all. Was that a 600? It's taller than an M80!

First I had to get a better job to buy a house, now I'd have to get a MUCH BETTER job to buy EP500/600.
Or well, SVS20-39PCI it is

WOW, i havent seen this much of a buzz since peter's kid put down the glass of beer!!

those subs do look nice and solid. i kinda like the port that looks like its smiling at you. way outta my price range though.. even if they offer factory prices, its still way outta my range. but, the pics sure are nice to look at. i cant wait to see who is the first to get one of these monsters home and give us a report.

bigjohn

They look simply awesome.....I'll have to live with the 350 for a while, then maybe I can talk the wife into the 500 in a year or so.....

WoW

I think I'll have to get the 500 and tell Roger that it's a dual purpose item. Not only a subwoofer, but a very nice end table. That MIGHT fly.

See, that was my theory. The Epicenter EP500 is short and square, and about the same depth as a couch . . . perfect end table excuse!! (Although seriously, you'll lose your drink in 10 notes or less!!)

The coolest thing about the 600 is you can actually WATCH it forever. The woofer action is astounding!

Definitely an upgrade program!

Well, heck, if the EP600 can sit on its side like Doug described in the article, that looks big enough to double as a coffee table...

...or a nice stand for a VP150 and/or a TV...

Wow. They sure do look nice. Can't wait to see a full review of the production models compared against say, the SVS Plus and Ultra lines.

I'm curious about the pricing strategy though. It seems there a lot of $600-800 subs sold these days that go pretty low, based at least on the number of people on this board that seem to go for the SVS PC+ line in particular. It would seem the attach rate to a set of Axiom speakers would go up considerably with a more aggressively priced sub. Perhaps the demand curve for subs is steeper than I thought?

I have a feeling that part of it is development cost, plus the price of the processor(s). Plus it's a lot more material than other subs, at least in the case of the 600. These aren't your regular old "slap a large woofer or four in, put in a huge amp, and put it all in an enormous enclosure" type of subs. (I know, simplification...)

Hey, totally OT, but did anyone notice that little picture that links to the store on the front page is actually Amie & Ian's (old) setup?

wow...that's a sharp eye.

Now back to the subject. How the heck am I going to convince Roger that we need one of these bad boys?

That 600 looks like a killer... and Here I am getting ready to review the ACI Maestro... $2050 with a high output 15 inch driver... Wonder how they would compare...

Someone's fishing for a review sample...

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Now back to the subject. How the heck am I going to convince Roger that we need one of these bad boys?

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tell him that the VTF-2 is broken and that the new sub is the replacement.

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Now back to the subject. How the heck am I going to convince Roger that we need one of these bad boys?

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I like one that I heard on another forum. Just put the 600 in your system sometime when he's not home, and tell him you spilled some water on your sub and the wood swelled.

and changed color!

Water can do that, ya know. But, I'll bet they'll come in Black Oak, just like the speakers (assuming Spiff's VTF is black).

Not really looking for another review... Though it (the 600) DOES look like a pretty interesting sub... I think my bride would about throttle me if I bought another one...

I'm nominating myself, my house and my system as a test subject for these subs. Come on...please....I'l not afraid to beg.

Dang it! I just creamed my jeans. And these were new boxers, too.

Those things are beautiful! Tomtuttle, scratch the SVS idea and buy an EP500! When you do, I'll be on the next flight to Seattle and I'll bring the beer!

Too late, and too expensive

I followed your lead and got a PB1-ISD

Very interesting marketing decision by Axiom. Can a M120 be far behind? While I applaud both the technological innovation and efforts to grow the business, this looks to me like a very clear departure from the core business. I'm not complaining, I'm just pondering.

Expensive, but I like the look of that EP600.
Maybe sometimes a company needs to put costs and marketing considerations aside and just say, "Look what we can do." Like the new Ford GT, that sub will probably speak volumes about the company's knowhow even if most of their traditional customers can't afford it. Maybe I can get full retail on my EP350 in a trade-in??????? please.....?

Oh, I agree. I fully expect the build quality to be top notch in every respect. No shortcuts taken.

I'm probably just feeling sorry for myself that I can't afford one right now. It's going to be torture reading the post made by the first one that buys that 600.

As I think about it, my wife was talking about getting a coffee table. I wonder what the 600 would like on it's side? We need more pics!

I was at Joe's house this past weekend, and he has a 600 there. Man that thing is big!! Unfortunately I had my kids with me, so demo time was limited to about 15 minutes. $%#@%#!!!!! My wife promised that when we go back up in October, I could have some "alone" time with that beauty. She is so understanding. That port is a little intimidating, though....

Chess, when you were at the factory, did you get to hear it? I must say that "Wow" seems so inadequate. "Holy mother of God!!!", is getting a little closer.

And yes Chess deserves a medal, for the other "secrets" are just as exciting.

The problem with the EP600 is it would be pretty conspicuous. I think you would need to buy a pair to balance the the look of the room.

I need something tall - and just one of them to occupy the space to the right of my TV that corresponds with my component rack. SVS 20-39 PC+ or Axiom EP600 (assuming I get a good trade in value on the old sub )?

Although I've never been a huge fan of front firing subwoofers... I want to hear this sub just because of it's shape... It intrigues me that a single driver subwoofer, in that figuration (driver in the middle of a huge narrow box, but front firing) pushing out good bass...

Although look at my subwoofer's response



And that's at stock.. mine's tuned a little lower

As for the Axiom sub's...intriguing none the less.

- D

Daphoid, very good point. Having had experience playing with subs in an automotive environment, I can attest to the difference "loading" makes. (Same as placing a home sub in a corner or firing the driver down.)

After hearing the 600, I am dying to hear a SVS tube. It does seem like a more efficient design.

On the idea of subwoofer driver driver direction, I'm not sold on the concept that the direction of the woofer will change much of the sound.

The problem with determining whether a downfiring vs. a forward (or rear) firing subwoofer actually makes a difference is that one needs to use the EXACT same subwoofer but in two different configurations in order to test it. Had Axiom sold both a downfiring and forward firing EP350, now that would have been a review to read, but to date, i've only seen reviews of completely different subs trying to differentiate sound differences via the woofer firing direction reasoning. Mind you i did once have my EP350 on its side lifted by pucks so i could test this idea.



The longer wavelength of a low frequency note is what makes the sound hard to localize. With that in mind, a downfiring or forward firing woofer (with the identical build) will still move the same amount of air to produce this effect. The key here is that the air movement around the subwoofer (or any speaker for that matter) is not unidirectional and air molecules will go in several planes. Being closer to walls makes a difference as the molecules hit the resistance of a hard surface and either rebound or add their energy into a wall struture (hence the increase bass closer to corners and such) but this phenomenon has to include the effect from the whole subwoofer structure and not just the driver direction.

Anyways, i digress. Thoughts to ponder.

Here is the original picture of the Axiom subwoofer that we heard on tour.



You can now clearly see it is just their prototype before the port design was changed and the driver raised, but otherwise it was the EP600. We did not have a ton of time with the sub but from what we heard while we were there was impressive.

Just for the record, my wife and i really only have one Axiom 'secret' left to hold for awhile. Then we will need to take another tour i'm thinking.
But that's ok. There's an excellent spa resort about 40 minutes away so the trip works for everyone!
Maybe next time we will have time to visit Amie and Ian's fabled house of wood.

Size: 18" wide, 25" tall and 28" deep
Weight: 140lb's

As you can tell from the speaker, I have no average subwoofer. I'm curious to hear the EP600, because at $1750 it's $550 MORE then my subwoofer, and mine has dual 12" drivers, and a 900w built in amp... I was asking a friend of mine who does a lot of sub reviews whether or not the EP600 could touch the PB2+, he didn't think so...yet the above article seems to be "omg it's AWESOME!" so I'm curious to see reviews...

I'll take a review sample for comparison

As for the above poster, I think down firing vs. front firing depends on location too, look at my location, front firing would've been bad, having it fire into the couch, or into the bed, just wouldn't have gone well I think. Also my drivers have 2 INCHES of horiztonal lift...it's insane how much they can move...

- D

EDIT: just thought I'd post this picture for size comparison issues. Note the CD next to the subwoofer.

Daphoid... I remember you ordering you PB2+ .... You live in Ontario, correct ? I had a pair of the PB2+ here.. they are big.... for sure. We sold them and ordered a B4+ ... I was almost shocked when it came in... HUGE ...

Daphoid,
That is indeed an odd location in which you have your subwoofer, although understandable given your room limitations. Your sub is one huge unit!

As i said, i'm not sold on the concept of different firing direction, and so far from what i've heard with my EP350 turned on the pucks, it made no difference. (I would need a second EP350 to do some real A/B testing). However, proximity to items such as a soft bed will certainly affect the movement of air so it is hard to say. When i tested my EP350 sideways, it was no closer than 1.5-2ft from walls. Perhaps a more general thought would be to state, if a subwoofer, not constrained by close surfaces, would likely have little difference in low frequency sound regardless of the driver firing direction.

A secondary consideration is also distance from the subwoofer itself. If you ever sit next to a sub when it is playing a solid passage, the air movement creates an uncomfortable pressure within the ear, hence you know you are close to the sub and depending on which ear has the most pressure, you can localize a general location. Moving further away alleviates this effect and creates a more ubiquitous sound. Only when i'm within about 5-7 feet of the EP350 can it be localized easily by ear. If it is too loud however, i get a bit of port chuff and it gives itself away.

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How the heck am I going to convince Roger that we need one of these bad boys?

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When's his birthday?

Mark

Yeah well my room is limited, and I didn't have enough room in the corner up next to one of the m60's, so it lives there.

It actually works surprisingly well. Even just a few feet from the sub on the couch, it's hard to localize if you're not specifically paying attention. It's not the best situation, but it's indeed livable, and having the whole couch shake takes way from the directional feel as well. Also my mains and the qs8's right above add a bit of bass too, so that helps as well.

Sitting *right* next to it on the couch is a little stressing on the right ear, but I have some friends that like that amount of bass, and actually clamor to get that seat, or sit on my bed because it shakes like crazy .

Personally I sit in the middle of the couch, which isn't centered with the two mains for space reasons, but it seems to be a nice spot with the qs8's and the SVS... It is indeed a huge box, but it's tons of fun nonetheless

Cheers!

- D

Just out of curiousity, how far have you turned up the subwoofer? Have you tested any of its limits?
We managed to push the SVS PCi 16-46 upwards of 100dB at 50Hz and decided not to venture any further. Besides, some of the SPL WAS coming from my drop ceiling at that point. How much we could not tell but i'm sure at least a dB or two.

These new subs are using different drivers and different ports than the rest of the line-up. Maybe there is going to be a change in the rest of the product line? If so, it appears they will retain the existing shape, but utilize non-Chinese mfg drivers? (hoping )

His is in May...mine on the other hand is only 8 days away.

I'm just a little PISSED after seeing this thread! I've been scouring the internet, bugging folks all over the world via forums, measuring, re-arranging furniture, and just generally irritated because I couldn't find a sub that would look right in my home next to my M80's.

Now I see this 'new Axiom sub' thread and see that they are going to be selling subs that would not only look right in my home, but sound good too. According to Fed-X, my Outlaw sub is just a couple hundred miles away. It's too late and I sure in the hell don't have room for two subs.

Dammit Axiom, you should keep you customers informed of your upcoming new products so we can consider them when shopping for new audio gear. It should be pretty obvious that you have a loyal customer base and repeat buyers. There really is no good reason to not drop them a hit from time to time. I certainly would have waited, and would have purchase the E500 without hesitation. It would have looked perfect in my living room.

Does your Outlaw sub not come with a 30 day money back guarantee? Send it back!

It looks like it's 58lbs or so.

From Alaska.

Yikes.

Could be worse, I suppose. You could have ordered a PB2-Plus.

Hello Daphoid,

Hope you are well. SPLs are not everything, these new Axioms are bringing internal digital processing to the signal to clean it up and prevent distortion, bottoming etc... SVS subs do not have digital processing built in, so would be hard to compare the two, since they are not on an even footing.

The cost difference we are seeing is the cost of this new smart amplifier design. If it works as stated, the sound should be very pure with a very flat frequency response. Is it worth the difference? We shall see when the reviews come out. I would give up raw SPLs for a very clean tight bass.

Later,

TonyM

mdrew, Easy big guy....the thread just started yestday and there is always that first day when the news breaks on a new product line....I do have to admit they would look darn nice close to my M60's that are soon to arrive...

How about a new M60 like this



Enuff time waisted, back to the grant

Cheers, Jag

That is really beautiful.

hey, all right jag... man, you guys and your photo shops are pretty cool.. strangely enough, take away the bottom port, and it almost looks like a rocket..

scary stuff man.. but pretty cool graphics.

bigjohn

Thanks BigJohn, I'd have switched the tweeter but for some reason the EP600 doesn't have one

Jag

All right, dude, Axiom didn't announce anything. It's not available yet. Someone published early (possibly), and we found it. Businesses don't work like that; they don't preannounce preannouncements of products. We don't even know when they're going to start producing/shipping these things. It could be months! Besides, are you really going to pay double or triple what you paid for the Outlaw? They haven't even been reviewed!

I would like to know what kind of EQing the DSP is doing, and if it is user configurable.

Chesse...can you help with that?

I am pretty sure that the new subs are an indicator of how the new anniversary speakers are going to look.

The EP500 doesn't look ridiculously large. In the picture, it looks like it's a hair or two less than half the height of an M80 which would make it about the height of an EP350. That's not bad at all.

That does look nice. Assuming that they are coming out with such changes to the existing line-up, I'm guessing they will also try to make them all front ported - that seems like a nice feature for wall mounting and other space constrained situations.

While they're at it, here's my vote for the next generation M3Ti



A nice $300 book shelf which will match the Reference 3a de Capo MM !!

Your pic isn't coming up.

Here's a direct link:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0103/3amm1.jpg

Wanna bet?

"403 Forbidden
Your client does not have permission to get URL /magazine/equipment/0103/3amm1.jpg from this server."

works just fine for me (WinXP using Firefox)

Yep...I'm "forbidden" as well. Was I bad?

Dosn't work here either.

Yes, you were very naughty, but isn't that a good thing?

I'll fix it for everyone:

kcarlile,
Settle down there turbo. Axiom does not need you to defend them from me. I think they are an outstanding company. Plus, I like my M80's and will most likely buy more products from them in the near future when I build my HT room downstairs. I also realize the subs aren't available yet. assumption is a not a good habit, you might want to try to understand why a person says what they say first, before making assumptions or judging them. I'm merely pissed that I will not be able to enjoy their subs as I do their speakers.

The outlaw is $745 to my door and Axiom pays shipping. do the math again, it's not double. and reviews are opinions of what someone else hears. I don't place much wait on them other than describing physical characteristics. companies routinely announce that they are developing a new product or making changes to a product line well in advance. go to the Detroit auto show one of these days. So yes, I'd buy one today if I hadn't already bought something else.

Looks a bit like a mini Thiel, no? (Damn fine sounding speakers btw)

Although I am not currently in the market for a "new" sub Myself, I don't know if the "look at Me, I had a secret" series of posts, was the best way to "break" the news to forum members. Some making future purchase plans, MAY have perceived (the seemingly innocous) posts, as a tad bit..... obnoxious, perhaps expecting a different kind of "heads up".

Outlaw Audio likes to give hints when a new product is about to be released. It's just as bad because everyone in the forum is trying to guess what the next product is going to be. This sometimes will last several months.
It drives us nuts...

Like most, I look forward to new Axiom products, if the new speakers (drivers) are going to look like Sapphire's(and others)........I'm gonna kinda miss those little black cone centers.

New anniversary speakers? I hadn't heard anything about this until now.

I agree. I like the black dust cap.