Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Who I am & Why I'm here (VERY long!)

Some of you may enjoy this VERY long post, others may not. If you really make it to the end of this ramble and did NOT enjoy it, please write me and I will refund what you paid to read it. For the others, I hope this sparks a thread of other stories about how you came into this hobby and how you arrived where you are… as well as where you’d like to go from here. Pretty lofty/arrogant considering I’m a newbie, here, huh??

As many of you have likely seen as well, there just aren’t the “stereo” stores around like there used to be in the late 1970’s and 1980’s. That makes it tougher for me to audition speakers the way I’d like. Although Concord, NH is not exactly in the “sticks”, it’s also not a major metropolis teeming with independent brick and mortar showrooms. This is why I’m doing much of my preliminary research on speakers on the net; I’m hoping to weed through the many choices out there so if I have to do a little driving to audition speakers, I can know that I’ve at least narrowed the choices a little beforehand.

Getting back into this hobby and deciding to fund it after being away from it for several years has caused me to do some reflecting as to how I first started enjoying it and how I’ve gotten to where I am. Like many of you, frequently my lifestyle is far too busy to ever allow me to sit and think, and this introspection really brought back some nice memories for me.

I remember around the time that I was in high school and for several years after that, the immense enjoyment I received from music and my stereo system. While many in high school were spending their money on new Chrome wheels for their Nova or putting side pipes on their Camaros, I spent $300 on a direct drive Pioneer turntable and a nice Shure cartridge. An old Ampex cassette “all-in-one” system that my dad gave me served as my amp; a Realistic clock radio served as tuner through it’s little headphone jack. The speakers were basically small boxes, much as you can find today, with 6x9 cutouts. They came with the Ampex and had some pretty mediocre paper cones and featured the infamous “whizzer cone” technology. I replaced them with some off-brand 3-way 6x9s I got at Bradlees and the sound improved a little bit.

There was some pride of ownership in that turntable. It wasn’t the best, or most expensive, but it was pretty good; a heckuva lot better than the turntables that came with the console stereos and better than the equipment I hooked it up to. As a matter of fact, if I borrowed my dad’s Koss headphones (I think they weighed about 9lbs!!) the sound was really not bad at all.

I spent many, many hours listening to Aerosmith, Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix and Pink Floyd. I later bought some el-cheapo speakers that were way too big for bookshelves, but not really designed for floor use either. (Remember the old Radio Shack Mach-2 speakers? Kinda like those!) Knowing I could improve my bass by getting them off the floor, I built some really ugly speaker stands out of 2x4s. Also knowing that the treble sucked, I promptly bought some accessory, standalone Radio Shack piezo supertweeters and put them on top. I like to think that someone from B&W saw them and was later inspired to create the Nautilus line!

The following year, I built an “entertainment center” in wood shop. It featured storage for all my equipment in a vertical rack atop a “base unit” that made it “L” shaped when you looked at it head-on. It held my new Technics integrated amp, all shiny silver with it’s fluorescent meters and 55/wpc. It held all my albums below, and had a row of cassette holders as well. What made it cool, though, are the two toggle switches I mounted on the front panel: the first switched on a small muffin fan that I mounted atop the unit to draw air past the integrated amp which I had in the uppermost position of the rack (it really had no recourse for air otherwise, and I must have done something right because I still use the amp today in another setup!). The second switch controlled a hidden, soft 15 watt light that I had mounted hidden above that shining jewel of a turntable. It allowed me to play music in a dimmed room, yet still turn an album over and check for dust. The dimmed lights were essential for some music…like Pink Floyd… that just didn’t sound the same in a well-lit room.

Probably five years after high school, I bought what was, to me, my “dream” electronics: An NAD system consisting of the 2200 amp, 1155 preamp and a tuner, the model number of which I don’t remember. The amp could put out hundreds and hundreds of watts on peaks due to it’s high headroom, and it weighed a ton. There was a lot of pride of ownership then as well. When I turned on that system, I knew that I was going to be treated to something special. The NAD stuff was built like tanks, with well-thought out controls, flexible ins and outs, and nice, understated aesthetics.

I was driving a small pair of Design Acoustic speakers mated with something many had not heard of: a subwoofer (made by Cerwin Vega). At the time, the only company that was actually doing anything on the satellite/subwoofer front was Atlantic Technology, and I liked the idea and value that this route offered.

My musical tastes started changing as well: CDs were now available, and I started listening to many GRP releases and the like: Dave Grusin, Michael Hedges, Diane Schuur. I’m not so sure that I was into the music as much as the sound quality of the recordings though and after awhile, they all seemed to not inspire the passion I felt with other types of music in my younger years…. Stevie Ray Vaughn a noted exception in that time period.

I started my own Photography/Video Production business and was working longer and longer days. I was not finding the time to lose myself in music anymore; it was something I just put on in the background while I was working and paid so little attention to that I often wasn’t aware when the CD ended.

After several years, realizing that I was much more likely to watch a movie (VHS Hi-Fi) than sit down and critically listen to music, I sold all the great NAD stuff and bought a mediocre but inexpensive Technics Pro-Logic receiver and some DCM TimeFrame speakers at a going out of business sale that I got for a great price because they only had two left… Literally, two LEFTS. Someone else must have accidentally taken home two RIGHTS. It didn’t matter; as I said, I never listened critically or intently anymore. I DID enjoy the movies, though, and now, so heavily involved in video production, certainly appreciated DVDs’ better picture quality and sound.

There was never any “pride of ownership” with this setup, though. It all sounded “OK”, but never really gave me that “wow” experience. It was just there and served a purpose in an “acceptable” fashion.

I’m looking to change that now. After years of working 15-18 hour days seven days a week (mostly, I still do), I’m looking to get off the treadmill and enjoy life a little more. I’m trying to golf more than the three times a year I had been getting out in the past, and I’m looking to enjoy music and my home theater more. I can’t lie and say I don’t enjoy the process; researching and choosing equipment for my revamped system is part of the fun and a little distraction from work…especially when I had been “out of it” for a few years and now am trying to learn more about Bass Management, higher-resolution audio discs and dipoles vs. bipoles.

I purchased a Denon 3805 last month and am once again feeling that “pride of ownership”. I like the build quality and design. Though not esoteric (fine by me!), it’s a huge step above what I had and so far I’m very pleased. I would like to get the Denon 3910 universal player to match it as well, but not being able to justify an extra thousand dollars, bought a pioneer 578 universal player instead. Someday, I’d like to get the Denon and I’ll make use of this Pioneer somewhere else. The Pioneer doesn’t offer that “pride of ownership” I’ve mentioned several times. It sounds good and offers pretty good picture quality, but it’s built like the $59 VCRs that are out there… you lift it and it feels like a paperback and not an encyclopedia. Value? A. Pride of ownership? D.

My last two steps will be to replace all six of my speakers and step up from my 32” analog TV to (likely) a DLP or LCOS ~45” HDTV.

I also purchased a nice Bell’O audio rack to hold the stuff, which I got at a steal as it was a Tweeter floor model.

Maybe you’ve sensed a theme here. I do enjoy that “pride of ownership” thing. I’ve never gone for the esoteric stuff. Never bought a Stereophile magazine or wired my speakers with more than 12 gauge zip cord. Many of my connects are Radio Shack, though I’m replacing more and more of them with A-T cables from Best Buy…. still don’t spend the extra money on Monster. But I think most mid-range products offer a good value that models above and below them don’t frequently offer…. A big step above the entry stuff but well below the diminishing returns of “hi-end” equipment. In my eyes, this “pride of ownership” is not audio snobbery, but I realize that my honesty regarding this might be perceived that way by others.

I remember going into those stereo stores when I was young and hearing some really nice speakers from Ohm, B&W, Canton, Polk and, yes, at the time, Bose. To me, they were the Holy Grail. A level of sound that I could aspire to, without feeling like I was going overboard and spending much more to only gain a bit more in fidelity. Now that I’m researching replacements for my current speakers, I truly had the idea that I would likely spend $3~5,000 on all six speakers and was looking for local dealers of Canton’s and B&W and KEF. But in my internet research I started seeing forums such as this one. And people weren’t really talking about European or American speaker manufacturer’s as much. Instead, much of the talk seemed to be about speakers such as Axiom, Mission and Energy (all Canadian if I’m correct?). Things have changed when I wasn’t looking! The British sound, Boston sound and California sound has been replaced with the Canadian Sound!

I’ve actually only auditioned two brands of speakers so far in my initial searching. I recently heard some Paradigms in a not-so-great test (no A/B setup) and wasn’t really impressed. I’m not sure if it was the setup, my rushed schedule, or they were really only “OK” to my ears. A couple of months ago I heard some Definitives though (I think the 7002s) that really impressed me and that was what got me started on this whole quest of upgrading. With my own (“regular”) CDs I heard detail that I had not heard (“Hmmm, I never noticed that acoustic guitar in the background before”). Those particular speakers would have really overwhelmed my small room, though I’d still like to listen to some smaller Definitives and see if they have that same transparency…. I also wonder how good they would have sounded with a DVD-Audio or SACD source.

So, when some of you have warned me that my old Aerosmith recordings won’t sound as impressive on Axioms, but a great recording DOES shine with them, it makes me think that they might offer that same transparency I heard with the Definitives that I’m lusting after. I’m still unsure if they would compete with some Canton Karats, but for the price difference I’m willing to try them in my home and see. It’s hard for me to think I’d likely feel that same pride of ownership though with Axiom over Cantons; maybe in some way I do have a hang up with price vs. quality. Maybe it’s simply because I haven’t heard the Axioms yet. Hell, I haven’t heard the Cantons in 20 years either! Really, until I audition several I won’t know.

I’m looking forward to getting back into this hobby and I’m looking forward to this particular community. I’m also looking forward to re-experiencing what I heard in that Definitive audition and hearing that “veil” being lifted from the sound of my current DCMs. This introspection I’ve been doing the past couple of weeks has really reminded me how much I miss good, passionate music played on a nice system. And yes, one that offers “pride of ownership”.

That sure is a lot of “forward-looking” for someone whose been spending so much time of late looking back…!

Whew.

Next??

Ummm, I thought I should offer an edited synopsis of my previous post for those who were looking for something shorter:

I'm getting kinda old and is Axiom "too good to be true"?

Heh, Cliff's Notes for us slackers. I am quite happy with my Axioms. I think they're able to offer a great product at a great price because there's no middle man.

I see I have had similar situations, and experiences with stereo equipment, and music interests .......(after reading your dissertation), i.e Radioshack stuff, Hendrix, etc..........
after 16 years, I finally "upgraded' My system. (it's listed in my user profile)
I did some research, and also got lucky finding great deals on everthing.
The Axioms are great "bang for the buck", and sound even better.
I just know I have great system, topped off with M60's..........no regrets.

I REALLY enjoyed that, Mark (of course, I'm old and have a LOT of time on my hands ). You're to be commended for your openness, honesty, and articulation.

Your journey reminds me of my own, though slightly different, road to aural happiness and abject poverty. I came back from Viet Nam in 1970 with some pretty heady equipment for that day: top of the line Pioneer stereo receiver; AR-5 speakers; AR turntable with Shure V15 cartridge; Teac top of the line reel to reel tape deck, and Koss Pro4AA headphones. Believe it or not that stuff lasted me 30 years. And, if I were interested in music alone, and if one of the AR speakers hadn't given up the ghost, and if the knobs on the Pioneer receiver hadn't pooped out, I'd probably STILL be using it.

About the time this equipment was heading for the big stereo trash heap in the sky, I began noticing how good movies in a theater were sounding, and particularly how good the MUSIC in those movies sounded. I can remember my reaction to the soundtrack of Sleepless In Seattle which utilized a lot of great old songs that I loved. That reaction was "Gee, my stereo at home doesn't sound like that." DUH! So, like you, I bought a Technics Pro Logic receiver and some new speakers, and from then on I was dead meat.

I know what you mean by "pride of ownership." I tend to express it as "pleasure of ownership" just to avoid the possibility of others interpreting it as "snobbery." But, I believe we are talking about the same thing. For me the wonderful thing is, having reached the age I have, the "pride" has little or nothing to do with what others think. The only opinion that really counts is the man in the mirror's. Folks who have lesser systems would listen and be impressed with my stuff, and "audiophiles" (I have come to loathe that word and all it implies) would just smile and politely say "gee, that's very nice." So, since reactions by others to my system would run the gamut from "AH" to "UGH," I think it prudent to listen to the little man inside. Quite liberating!

To get to the heart of the matter, to wit:

In reply to:

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I'm getting kinda old and is Axiom "too good to be true"?

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When it comes to selecting speakers we are dealing with an INCREDIBLY subjective decision. One man's ceiling is another man's floor. I have M60s/VP150/QS8s with a Hsu STF-2 sub. Axioms are NOT perfect speakers. It is my humble opinion there ain't no such animal. But, the Axioms are the best I've ever owned. However, having owned Bose previously, that statement could be considered damning with faint praise . I'm very happy with them. I find their clarity and imaging wonderfully satisfying.

The QS8s are startlingly immersing, and the best surrounds I've ever heard. My standard comment on the QS8s is "the thing I notice most about the QS8s is that I DON’T notice them." They do a wonderful job of providing the surround experience without calling attention to themselves in any way. They do not distract you from the movie.

The M60s handily satisfy my desire for a balanced set of mains that provides everything I want to hear (i.e. adequate bass, solid mids, clear highs. I often (but not always) listen to music with the M60s alone.

The VP150 sounds great, blends with the M60s flawlessly, and reproduces dialog really well. But, because my seating area is so close to it (7 feet), seating that is off axis doesn't get the great response that sitting in the middle does. If your seating area is farther back from it, you probably would NOT have this problem.

Critics of the Axioms call them "bright" or "harsh." Proponents describe the same listening experience as "accurate," or "detailed." Regardless, you will not find these speakers "muddy," or "muffled and they will expose a poorly mixed CD. If your room has hardwood floors, bare walls, minimal furniture, and a low ceiling, Axioms may not be for you. If you have carpeting, wall hangings, sofas and chairs, and/or a high ceiling you may find them wonderful.

With music, having owned lesser speakers I had gotten into the habit of cranking up the volume in order to give me the listening experience I wanted (hearing everything). I have found that these speakers do NOT need to be cranked to provide the satisfying experience of hearing everything in the mix, which satisfies my desire and need (townhouse with neighbors) to listen at lower levels.

For home theater, I find the whole ensemble flawless. Of course, the fact that I'm the one sitting in the sweet spot just might have something to do with that.

Keep in mind one VERY important thing when auditioning speakers. I cannot overemphasize the influence of YOUR room on the way speakers sound. If you're listening to a speaker at your local B&M store, it is VERY likely those speakers will not sound exactly the same in your room. The advantage (and disadvantage) to internet brands, like Axiom, is that you can audition the speakers in your own room. The disadvantage is that, if you don't like them, you have to pay return shipping.

Are Axioms too good to be true? Axiom makes quality products at a reasonable price; has superior customer service; offers 10% off if you buy from their Factory Outlet, offers an additional 5% off if you order ANY 5 items (such as 5 speakers, or two speakers, 2 stands and a cable); and allows returns for any reason within a 30 day period (you pay return shipping).

If you order 2 front speakers to get an idea of the Axiom sound, like them, and order, for example, a center and 2 surrounds within the 30 day trial period, that will qualify for the 5% discount. If the Axiom sound isn't for you, you only have to pay for return shipping on 2 speakers.

As you pointed out, the journey is as much fun as the arrival. So, have a good time, and keep us posted as to how it all goes. We get to relive our own experience vicariously through yours.

I hope my post is longer than your.

STOP IT! You boys are making me feel bad for not posting 1000 words or more everytime I post!

When I get the time, I'll post my story. Just don't have the time right now. BTW...love the stories so far...keep them coming.

Well if your "story" is as entertaining as the stream of consciousness posts about who you are and what you like, which you made sometime back, I'll be eagerly looking forward to it. I thought those were WONDERFUL posts. I'm VERY impressed with someone THAT in touch with themselves, and articulate enough to express it without sounding narcissistic. Well done!

Glad you liked those. They were a lot of fun to do, and actually I learned quite a bit about myself in doing them. I also got myself in a bit of trouble with my folks. They didn't realize I was an athiest. I now receive there church services on cd every month or so.

OOPS! Hoist by your own petard.

I think this has been gone through on this forum before. But here is a link to The Straight Dope's explanation of what hoisting yourself on your own petard means and where it came from.

Billy Shakespeare sure gave us a lot of cliches and sayings.

jr

Wow, as I was reading the posts, really tomes, that Mark and Jack did, I was wondering if I would be able to submit my retirement paperwork in time. Interesting stuff. What stuns me is how Jack was able to remember ANY of that.

On a more serious note Mark, have you looked at the first post in the "Technical Questions" forum relative to auditioning Axioms? There is a set with M60s in Windham NH that are available. Don't know how close that is to you, but the whole thread lists auditionng opportunities and might be worth a look. Also, drop Amie a line and she might be able to hook you up with a close and willing Axiomite. (Hmmm, I hope that doesn't sound like it sounds ).

To get at your Cliff Notes version, yeah, the Axioms are almost to good to be true. There is no wood finish or space age design, but they certainly deliver audio in a big way. Couple the sound quality with the price and its a daunting combination. If you can find an audition within a 2-3 hour drive, they are worth a day trip. Take your cell phone so you can place an order on the way home.

Windham is only 30 minutes from Concord.

Mark