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bi-amp with M60 and rotel RMB-1075
#63064 10/01/04 03:12 PM
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Hi,
I was wondering the binding post on M60 is made for true bi-amping option or just a marketing...?

thanks.

Re: bi-amp with M60 and rotel RMB-1075
#63065 10/01/04 03:23 PM
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I think it's made for bi-wiring, which Axiom themselves says will make no difference in sound, but they have so many people asking for it, they make it available.

btw...I have my M60's powered by a RMB-1075, and it's awesome!





Re: bi-amp with M60 and rotel RMB-1075
#63066 10/01/04 03:35 PM
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Thanks.
I'm currently have denon 3805 and i'm thinking of getting rmb-1075 and biamp 4 channels to M60. I probably look for 1080 instead.

Re: bi-amp with M60 and rotel RMB-1075
#63067 10/01/04 03:44 PM
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I'm curious what you mean by "true" biamping.


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Re: bi-amp with M60 and rotel RMB-1075
#63068 10/01/04 11:42 PM
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The website mentions... "These 8-ohm, easy-to-drive speakers will create ultra-clean, high-volume levels in large rooms. Both bi-wirable and bi-ampable, the M60s come with rubber feet, carpet spikes, and a wrench for tightening the binding posts."


M60's
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Re: bi-amp with M60 and rotel RMB-1075
#63069 10/01/04 11:57 PM
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There are two separate sets of posts wired in parallel with removable shunts so it looks like they are set up for bi-amping.


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: bi-amp with M60 and rotel RMB-1075
#63070 10/02/04 01:23 AM
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AF,if you're using the term "true biamping" in the strict sense that is usually applied, the answer is no. True biamping requires that the internal crossover of the speakers be bypassed and an external crossover located before the amplifiers be used so that the amplifiers will carry only limited frequency ranges. Simply providing separate terminals on the speakers obviously doesn't allow this and the internal speaker crossover is still used.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: bi-amp with M60 and rotel RMB-1075
#63071 10/02/04 05:14 AM
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Most Axiom speakers are still setup for biamping whether someone wants to call it 'true' or not. The basic definition is to use 2 power sources for each driver section. There is nothing wrong with allowing the internal crossover to function as it was designed. Applying an external crossover would typically need to be set at the designed internal cross value anyway, unless the user wanted to try weird and funky sound tricks outside of the speaker design..
In my limited home tests i've found no difference in sound quality having 2 amps drive a single M60, but biamping may have reasonable application for high power, high SPL situations. My guess is that this will be limited occurrence for 99.999% of home users and even for the remaining portion, may not add much benefit at all.



"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: bi-amp with M60 and rotel RMB-1075
#63072 10/02/04 03:31 PM
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OK, found the following writup from Alan on the Axiom site. Looks like requests for bi-wiring support were the primary reason for the extra posts. Reading between the lines, bi-amping is certainly possible although you would probably want an asymmetric electronic crossover for best results (ie you want to keep the LF energy out of the mid/high amp signal but still want to let the speaker crossover be in charge).

http://www.axiomaudio.com/en-ca/archives/deepbass.html

JB

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A/V Tip:
Biwiring and Biamping

Bi-words seem to be proliferating these days (bi-coastal, bipolar, etc.), and the world of stereo and home theatre loudspeakers is no exception. The terms “bi-wiring” and “bi-amping” (short for biamplification) continue to confuse lots of stereo and home theatre fans.

At its root, “bi” means “two,” and it relates particularly to the Axiom M80ti and M60ti tower speakers, which are supplied with “biwiring terminals.” Biwiring in practice means running two speakers cables to each speaker (a total of four to a pair of speakers) instead of one cable per speaker.

On the M80's rear panel (and the M60's), there are four binding posts instead of the usual two. One pair of binding posts is linked to the woofers, and the other two are connected to the midrange and tweeter section of the crossover. When the speakers are shipped, there are gold straps that run between the two pairs of binding posts, linking them so that they function electrically as a pair.

If you remove the gold metal links, however, you can biwire your speakers, using one speaker cable for the woofers, and the other cable for the midrange and tweeters. At the other end, both cables connect to the same amplifier output terminals. The practice became popular in Britain (not unknown for its eccentric audiophiles), the thinking being that using separate cables for low and high frequencies would somehow reduce interference between the two and improve sound quality.

If you look at the amplifier as a current source, then for amplifiers and receivers that are capable of supplying lots of current into low impedances, biwiring could offer theoretical advantages, particularly to loudspeakers that are linear and smooth, like the Axiom M80ti and M60ti, by eliminating potential intermodulation distortion between the low- and high-frequency portions of the audio signal. Using biwiring, this distortion would not occur because the low-frequency part of the speaker crossover would draw the current it needs for the woofers (and they need lots of current) through one speaker cable, while the midrange tweeter section would draw less current (it doesn't need as much) through its own speaker cable. This could prevent intermodulation distortion that may occur using one big “fire hose” or single speaker cable. (Using two cables per speaker will also lower total resistance to the audio signal—and that is well and good, although a single run of 12-gauge cable to each speaker will keep resistance to an insignificant level, well below 0.3 ohms.)

Will it sound any different if you biwire? Some users think it does, but I've never heard any differences, nor have any of our laboratory measurements or scientifically controlled double blind listening tests ever demonstrated there are audible differences. Axiom includes the extra terminals as a nod to those enthusiasts who believe that biwiring results in audible benefits and for the bi-ampers.

Bi-amping, or biamplification, is used mainly in professional sound reinforcement applications, where extremely high levels of loudness are required. Here big, separate amplifiers powering the low frequencies, and smaller amps for the midrange will increase overall output. Sometimes they will use a separate outboard electronic crossover (the speaker's internal crossover is disabled or bypassed entirely) so the operator can vary and adjust individual crossover frequencies, tailor the “slope” of the crossover to match the strengths of each set of drivers, and also adjust the relative sonic balance of bass, midrange and treble to suit the environment. This is important for huge auditoriums or outdoor events where separate arrays of treble and midrange horns are operating with big “bass bins,” but such systems have no place in domestic home theatre systems in normal rooms. Additionally, it puts control of the relative smoothness and tonal balance into the hands of the sound system operator, a dangerous tool for all but the most experienced sound reinforcement experts. It also partly explains why the live sound at so many concert events (not all, mind you) is so awful. – A.L.


Last edited by bridgman; 10/02/04 03:34 PM.

M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: bi-amp with M60 and rotel RMB-1075
#63073 10/02/04 04:39 PM
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Thank you all for valuable information. I guess bi-amp is not really practical for home use.

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