Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Another Freakin' Sub Question!

OK, I’m _really going to make this my last post on subwoofers…… at least I think I am! :P

I’m very confident about the right Axiom system for me (M60s, VP150, QS8s) for every speaker except the sub. I’ve asked opinions on which manufacturer and about musicality VS. “Boom” before, but I have one last, simple question.

I’m going to go with an Axiom sub. I know others might be a little better value in terms of extension for the price, etc… but I’m only putting this in a 13’ x 13’ x 8’ room, and it IS going to be used along with M60s, and it will be very visible so I like the idea of matching the finish of the rest of the system.

But, for the life of me, I just keep going back and forth between the EP350 and the EP175. There’s not much difference in price, there’s very little difference in physical size, there’s only a fractional difference in power. Really, on paper, the 350 only looks a tiny bit better. As a matter of fact, looking at the specs only, I’m not even sure why Axiom maintains the 175 in the line. It almost seems like they could drop the 175 from the market, and drop the price of the 350 by $50 (make up for it in volume and efficiency of having to build one less variation and stocking extra parts for the 175).

It makes me think I MUST be missing something here. On paper, the 350 looks like it’s only 10% better; maybe in reality it’s much more than that? In a 13’ square room, will there be much of a “real world” difference between the two? If it just means I keep one set to “five” and another to “four”, or I gain just a few Hz in extension, or one is just an inch and a half smaller, I might as well go for the 175. How do I determine the preferred one for my needs without ordering both and trying them side by side (no, that seems like a big waste of postage and it’s taking advantage of Axiom’s generous policies in my opinion).

Sorry to even ask another sub question; you experienced forum members must be sick of the same repeats over and over! I just wonder if I’m missing something obvious between the two, and wonder if it makes a difference in a smallish room anyway? I searched past posts, but really didn’t find anything regarding the differences between the two!

Hi Mark,

I really respect your position to pay some heed to the aesthetics of the situation.

I'm totally speculating here, because I don't own either model, but I'll give you my opinion for free. One time only. Call before midnight tonight. Not valid in all states.

The EP350 is 2 inches bigger in every dimension; it really is a bigger box and a bigger driver. It will produce lower frequencies and produce them more loudly. As to whether those differences are going to be meaningful to you in your room, only you can decide.

Didn't you have the very real prospect of moving your setup to a new, larger room in the future? If it was me, I'd future-proof the buying decision and get a Factory Outlet EP350 for $558 - the wait time is only a couple weeks.

You should call Axiom and talk to Alan or Joe or Brent or somebody about your dilemma. I'm sure they will be happy to advise you more capably than any of us numbskulls. On this topic, anyway

Hi Mark,

In that size of room, get the EP175. You will not hear a difference with the EP350 unless you put the system in a much larger room, and even then, I think you'd be better advised to add a second EP175 to get more even coverage and for greater overall output.

Regards,

"Didn't you have the very real prospect of moving your setup to a new, larger room in the future?"

Yes, I did.

I didn't bring that up this time because I thought that if the two subs are very close in performance, in EITHER case I'd probably add a second sub in that larger room down the road. Only if the 350 were rasonably or substantially more powerful could I likly avert that situation... and whether or not the sub was apprecibly more powerful was kinda the question in the first place!

I was trying to keep the question simple. I'm afraid that I'll become known as "Long Post Mark" if I don't start keeping my posts in these forums to under 5,000 words.

Hey, now that I think of it, it wouldn't be a HORRIBLE nickname to have!!??!!

Thanks Tom and Alan!
I think I'll change my SIG line and put this to bed!

"Long Post Mark"

Dear Long Post,

Sounds like Alan got you covered.

I've been called worse. By a long shot.

Hope you enjoy your Axioms! Be sure to stick around the forums and lend a hand where you can.

I've got my EP175 in a 12.5 x 16 x 9 room, and it's a terrific little sub. For my normal listening levels (rarely over 75db, the occasional 80db), it's more than adequate and never loses its composure. I think the volume on the sub is only dialed up to around 9 o'clock, and that's with the Avia calibration disc. The only negative thing I could say is that in some movies with a lot of low frequency material (particularly a quick bomb blast or something similar), I feel like there's a noticable roll-off. That is, there's no distortion or abruptness in its behavior, but I know for a fact there's additional frequencies the EP175 isn't handling. Of course, my next door neighbor would probably disagree.

If I had it to do over again (and eventually I will), I'd opt for something with more extension. But the EP175 is a very nice, well made little sub and it does very well with music. Heck, it does great with movies too - but there's that 2-3% of the time that I'd wish I'd picked something that could go a little lower.

Jeeeez, THANKS Mike!

Just when I thought it was settled!
I guess I have to change my SIG line back?

Tell you what - I'll make you a great deal on my EP175 and then I can either save for a VTF-3R or a PB12-Plus. Or a EP500...mmmmmmmmmmm...

In all seriousness, the EP175 IS a very good sub. I suspect part of my complaints stem from the fact that it's right next to the couch, and even though it's callibrated properly for my listening position I can hear every last thing that's going on. Combine that with a fixed 100hz crossover on my Marantz, and the sub becomes a little too easy to localize.

Put it this way: If I bought my setup today, I'd probably look at one of the subs I mentioned above. On the other hand, I've lived with mine for two years now and I haven't felt compelled to spring for a different sub. It does its thing very, very well. Its "thing", however, just doesn't include the extension that other subs from HSU, SVS and Axiom might offer.

It's hard for me to imagine that there is really much going on below 28~25 Hz.... maybe I'm just ignorant in that respect, but it's one of the reasons I've always said that I would value "musicality" over more extension.

Anyone? If Sub "A" goes flat to 28Hz and Sub "B" goes to 20Hz, does that really come into play often? Assuming it's very rarely an issue in music, do those lowest of notes hit once in a movie like Saving Private Ryan, or are they hitting 40 times and responsible for much of the impact through many scenes?

You know, I've never auditioned subs. It seems as though they would be SO dependant upon the room they're in, their location within that room and the interaction of the other speakers that it never seemed to have mattered. Maybe, as I said, I'm ignorant because I've never owned a good one? Funny thing is, I've been using subs for 25 years, long before they were moderately known for satellite/sub systems and REALLY long before they were popular for Home Theater use. But I've always bought "relatively" cheap ones and I'm not exactly sure what to expect out of a better one!!??

NOW I'm back to even wondering about the SVS/HSU option. I can't believe I have so much confidence in all the Axioms I'm ordering but just cannot seem to decide on the sub....!

Whooooaahh! You dudes are, like, SO freakin' me out over this!