Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater VP100 vs. VP150 vs. M22 vs. QS4 vs. M3 vs...

Thanks for continuing the experiments!

BTW, there is a scale to the posts. You'll hit local at 200, then addict (again) at 300. And then you'll stay there forever; witness Peter, who has 3700 someodd.

Interesting. I thought there were more levels (per the FAQ) but when I look closely "addict" turns up twice. Wonder if the FAQ has older levels mixed in from when the board wasn't so active ?
From the FAQ :

"Here is the list of the standard titles and # of posts to achieve them:

0 newbie
5 regular
10 frequent flier
20 hobbyist
30 enthusiast
40 addict
60 old hand
100 veteran
200 local
300 addict"

Ayup. There was a bit of a petition about a year(?) ago to change it, but nothing came of it. All us >1000 posters are bored with our titles.

If they really wanted to mess with us they could change the titles to M2, M3, M22, M40, M50 etc...

That would imply that the higher number speakers are better than the lower number ones. And that just wouldn't be right.

Exactly. Imagine the outrage...

I did some casual testing with the center in a variety of different positions and orientations :

- vertical, to the right of the TV (standing on the receiver) -- sounded OK but the dialog etc. was VERY clearly offset to the right, didn't like this at all

- horizontal on top of the TV, with a paperback book raising the speaker an inch or so to minimize the fringing -- sounded better, but lost the nice sharp "dialog is dead center" feeling that I got with the speaker vertical on top of the TV

- vertical and inverted on top of the TV -- clearly the best so far, with clear sound centered on the TV image

- vertical but not inverted -- didn't try this one because of the fringing but suspect it would be even a bit better because the bulk of the dialog seems to come out of the woofer

So... what does all this mean ? My first thought was "OK, I'm convinced, sign me up as a charter member of the Friends of Vertical Center Speakers club". My second, more sober thought was "hey, stupid, you probably just figured out what Axiom has known for years -- that you need to have a symmetrical driver layout on a center channel speaker".

Think about it for a minute... if you have two woofers surrounding a tweeter then the woofer output is going to sound like it is coming from the midpoint of the woofers, ie in exactly the same spot as the tweeter. Works the same for the VP150... everything should sound like it is coming from the midpoint of the speaker.

Try the same thing with a horizontal M2 or M22 -- the woofs and tweets come from different points and you blur the sound a bit. BUT -- wait for it -- put TWO horizontal M2/M3's side by side and they work like a symmetrical VPxxx speaker with the sound all seeming to come from one point.

Vertical M2/M3/M22 is no problem. A pair of vertical speakers on each side of the TV should also be no problem.

Sorry to be hogging my own thread but this is interesting, at least to me

I ordered a single M2 earlier this evening based on preliminary results; was briefly thinking about changing the order to get a VP100 instead (now that I understand their design a bit better) but after some thought I haven't really discovered anything "bad" about a single vertical M2i center. I do understand the guy who started the "what would happen if'n I took a hole saw to my VP150" thread a bit better though.

John, been following your experiments with interest, as I've suggested the benefits of a vertical M2 center several times over the past couple years. One thing that interested me was the fringing that you experienced in the normal orientation with your particular TV(which I didn't get with an M22). Since turning it over made a difference of 5" or so to the midwoofer, it would be interesting to see how much you had to raise it in the normal position(on a stack of magazines, for example)to get rid of the problem.

Oh, I think it's a fascinating thread. I'd be interested in having you verify that the M2s on the sides of the TV were good, but I don't want you to mess up the tube. I'm curious as to how far away from the mains such a pair of centers would have to be in order to preserve proper imaging.

JohnK -- ask and ye shall receive.

It took about two average paperbacks to avoid fringing with the speaker centered on the top of the TV. If the speakers are over at either side then another paperback is required... seems like the corners are more sensitive to magnetic fields. This isn't too bad really -- pretty much the same spacing you would get if you had a shelf above the TV with the speakers on the shelf.

I noticed a slow, very significant fluctuation in the intensity of the fringing with a cycle of several seconds. Never noticed it before when playing with magnets and CRTs but then again this is the first time I have looked carefully.

kcarlile -- don't feel up to doing those tests tonight (have to find a new home for the receiver so I can stand a speaker on each side of the TV) but will try tomorrow.

If it's an inconvenience, don't do it for my sake.