Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater m-80s with m-22s up front??

I am considering upgrading to the m-80 towers, although I love my 22's I am looking for that extra punch. I use the QS-8s as rear surronds, as my couch set-up HAS to be flush to the rear wall. I don't want to sell my 22's. And I can't use them as rears. My Yamaha shows a set-up with the 2 towers up front, and "presence" speakers, smaller speakers also up front 4 total, Any thoughts, or could I place them staggered with the 80s, will them being 8 ohm and the 80s being 4 ohm cause the 22's to play louder, or too efficient? causing a mismatch. Can they be wired together on the same channel (dasiy chained) or does the whole idea just not make sense???

The presence channels on your receiver are so that the mains can play only what is supposed to be heard through the front speakers when the audio is decoded directly while the DSP effects are outputted through the two additional "presence" speakers. In my opinion, that is a good thing. Secondly, if you wired them in parallel, the speaker with the lower resistance (impedence) would be the one that plays louder. V=IR --> I = V/R. Voltage is constant, but resistance varies so current (I) goes up when resistance is lowered. Simple Ohm's law application.

I have M80's and love the sound quality.
I will be more than happy to take the M22's off of your hands. I'm just kidding of course.
Seriously, The M80's are more than enough. I don't know how the M22's would sound as "presence" speakers as I have never liked the way Yamaha does their surround sound modes (my personal experience in the past). Also, you may need to research the Yamaha to see if it can handle a 4-Ohm load effectively. Does your Yamaha do phantom speakers for the sides? If so, this may be another option. I wouldn’t daisy chain the two you might be asking for trouble. If you had a good amp, you might be able to use the m22’s as a huge center channel (using two channels of an amp and a couple of Y adaptors).

Have fun!

Tom

All Yamaha receivers can handle 4 ohm loads. They do it the bad way, though, by implementing a current limiter switch.

Thanks.
My older Yamaha (1992) did not like 4-Ohm loads. In fact it refused to even try to drive them. The receiver would shut itself off after a minute or two. However, I did like it for the most part. The unit performed very well other than the 4-Ohm issue. I have it connected to my PC now

Ah - sorry to hear about the issue with older Yamahas. I was unaware that older Yamaha models didn't also have Low Impedence Drive Technology as Yamaha puts it.

So you have something nice connected to your computer too?

Not as nice as yours

Jon, since you're not using amp channels 6 and 7 for back surrounds, it might be useful to set them to drive M22 front "presence" speakers. I've never experienced this, but Mike(mwc)did this some time ago and was rather pleased with the results. Possibly if he sees this he'll comment.

That was my thinking John, thanks. Maybe some can weigh in on this, I guess wiring them in with the m-80s is out of the question from what I here. Is this becase the ohms are different

Jon, your 1400 should drive M80s very well, and at the regular 8 ohm setting without having to use a lower impedance setting which would limit the voltage and therefore current and power available. Connecting M22s in parallel with them might well cause a problem; the resulting net impedance for paralleled 8 ohm and 4 ohm loads is 2.67 ohms(1/8+1/4=3/8, or 2.67 ohms). Besides that, running two different(even if similar)sets of speakers simultaneously on the same material would tend to muddle the sound.

if your yamaha has preout then you can add an additional 2ch amplifier or 2 monoblocks dedicated for the M80, and run the M22 off of your yamaha, if you stack or pair them together I suspect the overall sound quality is going to suffer due to the different nature of amplification. my advice...not a good idea.

Just use the M80 as your main and setup the M22 in other room. You said you want more punch, how about getting another pair of M22 and run all 4 of them upfront? parallel them will give you a 4ohm load, assume you yamaha can handle it. Technically, 2 pairs of M22 have more drivers(cone area) than M60, and they should have very close output to that of M80, with less bass extension but you have two 12" sub to handle the lower region so that shouldn't matter, left alone 2 pairs of M22 = $800 and 1 pair of M80 = $1100, you do the math :-) If you must pair the M80 and M22 together, then wire them in series and that will give you a 6ohm load.

JoninFlorida,

Before the era of discrete Dolby Digital 5.1, Yamaha always promoted the "presence" speaker setup, which did indeed widen and make the front soundstage more "expansive" and spacious, a significant improvement over the old Dolby Pro Logic processing. If memory serves, the extra pair of front presence speakers are driven from their own amp so they should not present any impedance problem.

In my judgment, the "presence" speakers are not required anymore and I suspect they would muddle the front soundstage. Besides, it's a Yamaha proprietary format and not the way movies are mixed. You can always try it if you like.

By the way, Yamaha is still iffy re driving 4-ohm M80s and the older models definitely did not do so. If you want more punch, get the M60s, which are an easy 8-ohm load.

And don't connect speakers in series if you want fidelity and accuracy. The impedance curves of each speaker will interact and alter frequency response when speakers are connected in series.

Regards,

Thanks Alan, good info. I think my Yamaha rxv-1400 has enough power. Maybe some can weigh in on it. Not that weight dictates power, but this is a big amp 40 lbs. It has plenty of brut. And has very good power, 770 watts @ 7 channels. (110 w.p.c.) It does not seem to be overstated power like I have seen in the past. I had a a cheap Sony that was rated at 100 watts per channel. It just seemed very lite duty, I use it in my garage now. There is no way this Yamaha is only 10 w.p.c. more, it plays twice what the Sony did.