Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners New M3s - 1st impression with questions

I really think that the answer for you would be the M22ti bookshelves.

Here, John Potis says a variety of things including the following:

In reply to:

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Moving up into and through the midrange, the M22Ti SE continues to ascend to a level of liquidity that the M3Ti SE can’t quite match. I have to be careful not to step on the toes of the M3Ti SE; it’s a wonderful speaker in this regard. But the M22Ti SE has a more smoothly flowing nature about it in the midrange. By comparison, and only direct comparison, the M3Ti SE can sound a tiny bit grainy. The M22Ti SE does not, as should be the case for 40% more money. I also believe that the M22Ti SE's midrange performs a more successful segue into the treble, resulting in a slightly more seamless and coherent presentation.

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Going up to the M22's would fix the upper midrange problems and hopefully eliminate the grain. I used to own the M2i's before I got my M60s and I know that they do not suffer from the upper midrange problem or the grainy treble either, but if you're going to be listening without a sub, most music really just will not work. If you don't like using a subwoofer for 2 chan (like me), just get the best of both worlds and never look back: M60. It combines the clarity of the M2 / M22 with great, solid, and clean bass. In fact, to my ears, the treble and mid actually sound better on the M60 than on the M2i's. Maybe it was just the fact that there was bass in addition to the mids and treble, maybe it was placebo, but I think it was actually better. It just seemed to be more calm even at lower volumes. They also dissapear a good deal more into my room than the M2's ever did. If I close my eyes and try and "locate" the M60s, I have a very hard time, as so much of the time the sound seems to extend beyond where the speakers are physically located, as a good speaker should..

Hi judasmac

I think it's your room. The M3s' driver is mechanically 'integrated' with its tweeter since there is no cross over between the amp and the driver. The simple x-over is between the tweeter and the amp. I replaced the capacitor and resistor in most of my Axiom made speakers and have noticed an audible improvement. Of course, if you do this your warranty will almost certainly be voided.

I've tried Jensen paper/oil, Audiocap Thetas, and some Solen caps and Mills and Caddock resistors with good results. I think these modifications have taken my speakers up a level.

I found my M3s liked to be placed about 2' from the wall and required some decent speaker stands. (I like the stands from Loveland)

One thing that surprised me about my M3s was the bass output. It helped me find weaknesses in the built in cabinetry behind the speakers - lows caused some things near the speaker to resonate. Move 'em out and let those ports work!

Your Tangents sound interesting. I have some old speakers around which also sound great. My garage system is vintage and uses a pair of Dahlquist DQM 905s which sound ridiculously good. (Kenwood KA9000 slightly modified with a heavy power cord and modern 5 way speaker posts, a Kenwood SW300 sub with a Titanic 10" driver and a 15 year old JVC CDP).

I don't want to diss Cambridge equipment, but I had a D500SE CDP which I got rid of because it sounded terrible wth my M3s. I know there are folks who insist that all CD players sound the same, and I'm not sure whether the one I had was defective, but it was a terrible match for my system.

M2i dont have as much bass as M22ti or M3ti, and stronger midrange than M3ti, if you're going to put them on the shelf then look no further than M2i, M22ti has much stronger mid than both M2i and M3ti but you'll more than likely experience the same boom or excessive bass as the M3ti, so I say M2i is a much better option for you.
Or, use the Tangents as your bookshelf, and get the M22ti as replacement.

HI Judasmac,

Nah, it isn't speaker placement. You are obviously a careful listener: "slightly recessed midrange" exactly nails the M3ti's tonal balance. When I'm being polite, I call it "laid-back" or "somewhat recessed."

And for heaven's sake, ignore 2X6spd and his eccentric theories of modifying the crossovers with his oil-filled caps and the like. I suspect you'd love the M22ti's or M2ti's, although the M2i's really require a subwoofer.

By the way, I haven't heard anyone mention Tangent speakers for 20 years. In their time, they were quite good speakers.

Regards,

This has been very helpful. A great resource, especially for those of us who already bore to death everyone we know when we hyperanalyze our stereos.

I'm am now inclined, despite my protestations in my first entry, to try the M22s. I fear that I'll really miss the bottom end on the M2s. Once you get hooked on this hobby, what's a hundred bucks here or there (and there, and there, and there ... damnit, I tried to be good). I also see a place where I might be able to mount them using brackets on the sides of the built-in shelves, if the brackets are sufficiently adjustable. That would get them away from the echo chamber of the bottom shelves. It also tacks on another $70, but let's just ignore that.

I was up until almost 3 in the morning last night listening to music through my M22s. There's a natural tendency on gravitate towards (or at least lust after) the models closer to the top of the line (M60, M80), but these are easily the nicest speakers I've ever owned and among the best I've heard. Pair 'em with a sub and they're that much better. Sure, I'd like to make the leap to a pair of M60s one day, but I have a tough time imagining what I might be missing.

Gee, that's funny, Alan. When we discussed this a few months ago, you said straight out that upgrading capacitors was a tweak which noticeably improves the sound quality of a speaker. BTW, I take it you didn't like the Ed Gerhard CD I sent you after that conversation since I never heard back from you.

2X6spds:

Don't put words in my mouth. I would never state such nonsense. What I would say is that altering crossover components will certainly change the timbral balance of a speaker, either degrading it or improving it. But unless one has a firm grasp of electrical theory (inductance, resistance, capacitance, etc.) or an EE degree, I do not recommend that novices play around with the crossover components of a well-designed loudspeaker.

Regards,

Perhaps you have forgotten our conversation. We were not discussing changing the values of the capacitor or resistor, or redesigning the cross-over, but rather substituting better quality components than OEM, better quality but of the same value.

I have accurately reported our discussion in this regard. Sorry if sharing our discussion has caused you any discomfort or embarrassment, but I'd like the folks with whom I've been posting for years to know that I did not put words in your mouth or ascribe to you statements which you did not make.

Now all the rest of us need to do is decide whom we believe.