Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo to much bass on m80 speakers

Since I purchased my m80 speakers a few months ago I have had a problem with to much bass.Ive tried just about everything to solve this problem to no avail.Using a Radio Shack sound meter I found that I have a room node beetween 32hz and 40hz.I was told that a paremetric equalizer is the answer to this problem.Ebay has a vintage SAE 180 equalizer for around $70-$80.Does anybody out there know anything about it? Can it really help? I am really desperate for a solution at this point and would appreciate any help at this point. I really love the sound of these speakers otherwise.

As you posted this in the stereo area I'm going under the assumption you have to much bass in a 2 channel set-up so talking crossover etc, won't do any good.

How close do you have the speakers placed to the wall? Have you tried pulling them forward etc? What do you have them hooked up to? I can make up a list of 20 things to look for but I think most will want more info.

As mentioned in my post ive tried just about everything,moving speakers away from both back and side walls,moving them closer to back & side walls,placing them on stands etc etc.They are hooked up to a HK 3470 stereo reciever.I also tried using a graphic equalizer but that did not help because I couldnt home in on the room node frequency and it affected other areas of the speaker frequency response adversely.

can nobody spel anymore

Asher7700,

How are you? Is the bass "boomy" or exaggerated?
What kind of music are you listening to? Not that this matters too much.

Tom

For M60s I found I needed at least 2 feet between the back of the speaker and the rear wall before the bass sounded right. My understanding is that M80s need even more in some rooms.

How far have you pulled them out so far, and if you haven't tried >3 feet between speaker and any walls could you try ?

Also, what is the room dimension (W*L*H)?
Are there any other environmental characteristics with the room? Also tell us about the sources you’re using and how they are connected.

Thanks!

Tom

Asher.

Do you have the V-Max engaged on your reciever,if so that could account for the problem.

Just a hunch from the information you provided.
http://www.axiomaudio.com/archives/roomacoustics.html Check it out.
Alan in my opinion is the "oracle" of sound! I think I need to lay off of the Matrix for a while ....

Thanks for the replies fellas.I apologize for my spelling.It was never one of my stong points.The size of my room is 13x21Height is 13 feet.I have the speakers placed along the long wall because of the furniture placement that my wife prefers(I'm really having a ot of flack from her because of the size of the speakers).The most i've had them from the back wall is around two feet.Can't do more then that because of,guess what,my wifes plans for our living room. I am using an HK 3470 rec. and using 12 gauge cables to connect to my speakers. I listen to classical and new age and am getting to much bass (not boom) in the 32hz to 40 hz area .I checked this out with my trusty sound meter which tells that the increase in this area is around 6 db's.It seems strange, but I don't have this problem with my AR9's which have side fireing woofers.That's why i'm intrested in the SAE paremetric equalizer with which I hope to pinpoint and solve what I assume is a room node (whatever that means).I just can't seem to find to much about it on the internet becase it's a vintage product.

Since the M80's woofers are facing the opposite wall (another long wall), I’ll bet the low frequencies are bouncing. At this point I'm 100% sure that your problems are acoustic related.

Can you try moving the M80's to the short wall and have it firing toward the long part of your room? This way you will know that the M80's are not the problem. Keep in mind that this is just an experiment. I’m not trying to tell you that you have to upset the misses by rearranging the room.

Let us know if you do the experiment and what the results are.

Good luck!

Tom

P.S. Don’t worry too much about the spelling. We all make mistakes.

I would love to move the speakers to the short wall but it would really mean moving around a heck of a lot of furniture plus components.Most important the missus would move me out of the house.No V-Max.

At this point you might want to give Axiom a call to see if they can offer any solutions. I'm out of ideas.

Called them and they gave me the same suggestions you did.Thats why I figure that my last resort is a paremetric equalizer.If that doesnt work I will,reluctently,have to sell the m80's.

How long have you owned them?

I look at your situation as having an exotic sports car parked in a garage but not being able to drive it. You might be able to trade the M80's in if it's not too late. The M22's might be the answer here.

The M60s or M50s might cover it too, but the M22s+ a sub will be more versatile.

Very true.

How far are the speakers from the side walls ? If they are pretty widely separated (ie close to the side walls) then moving them closer together might help a bit.

re: pulling them out from the wall further, is there any big piece of furniture between the speakers that you could sneak out another 6-12" without getting caught ? That would let you pull the M80s out into the room a bit further without anyone noticing

It wouldn't hurt to temporarily pull 'em out 3-4 feet from the wall just to see how they sound. Weekend afternoons are good for this...

I think the reason people are asking how long you have had the M80s is that it sounds like your room and placement constraints make M60s a better fit, and if you haven't had the M80s too long you could just exchange them.

I think this is a case where the 80s just won't work in the situation where you have to place them ( are you reading this Jack ).Being along the long wall I believe you are not allowing enough distance between the speaker and the listening position.Since the wife will not allow for placement on the short wall (which probably would work) maybe the only thing to do is to try a different model.The M22+ a sub sounds like a pretty good choice in this case.

Just out of curiosity, have you tried to toe them in a bit and create a little more air in the back on one side of the speaker?

One more thing. If you do have to go with an EQ, try and find a Yamaha. You will be happier with it then the one you are looking at. I still think if you tweak the placement, you can fix it without the EQ but who knows for sure. I'm also assuming that you don't have a loudness button on by chance do you? Are you running everything flat? ie no treble, no bass?

If I had to go the EQ route.
http://www.rane.com/thx22.html

Everything on the reciever is set to flat.The Yamaha won't work because it's a graphic equalizer.Iv'e already tried one of those.A Audio Control Richter Scale Bass equalizer.The problem with them is that they affect to broad a frequency range.Thats why i'm intrested in the SAE paremetric equalizer which can adjust the bandwith that you want corrected,not only the frequency.Its about the only one that I can find on Ebay for home audio.All the others are for professional or car audio.

Do you have them toed in at all?

Yes they are slightly toed in.Iv'e tried that route to and no dice.About Rane equalizers they go from $2000+.A bit out of my league.

What about an eq like This.

No rca inputs or outputs on the Rane pe 17.

If you find a big enough graphic eq you should be able to smoothly blend the low freqs in. Audiocontrol bijou is also nice. I'm not sure how much they cost. My favorite eq of all time is SoundCraftsman. They can be found used and they are very good IMO.

Good read
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/roomacoustics/roomacousticslivingroom.php

I've tried using a Audio Contol Richter scale one third octave bass equalizer which is very highly rated,but again its a graphic equalizer and the improvement was minimal.If I remember correctly the old Stereo Review And High Fidelity magazines gave high marks to the SAE 800 for just such problems.However I can't find this information on the internet.SAE doesn't exist anymore and neither do Stereo Review & High Fidelity.By the way I have the m80's since June so theres no way I can return or exchange them .Whats about a vintage DBX 10/20 computerised equalizer with mike that supposedly equalizes automatically by using the mike and sweep tones? I've seen them on Ebay.The problem is they usually go for $500.I'm just about ready to throw in the towel which would really be a shame because otherwise these speakers are fantastic.

Short wall

They'll still probably let you trade them. Or you might be able to sell/trade them to someone here for M22s+sub or M60s.

Would the Behringer Feedback destroyer Pro help this guy? Evidently, many have had good luck using it's parametriq EQ to take care of some pretty bad bass issues, and it's only $120.

He'd need a pair of them if it worked at all. I suppose if you had pre-outs and main ins a pair could work. 'Course I suppose that you would need such a beast for any eq.

Edit-forget the pair. I just d/led the manual, which I should have looked at first... dur. So just how does one use this beastie with a sub? And is a TDS jack the same as an RCA jack?

I assume that the reason people are using these is because they include a parametric equalizer and they're cheap, not because it's a use that the manufacturer envisioned.

asher, just so we don't miss anything - have you tried adjusting your bass or treble on the receiver?

Ash, welcome. If the room dimensions that you described are accurate there should be no room modes between 32-40Hz, but a very strong one around 43Hz. This would be caused by the identical 13' height and width dimension(coincidentally, on a thread yesterday we discussed a bass problem with Mark Johnson relating to his 13' square room)causing a double reinforcement at that frequency(560/13~43). The speaker placement to reduce the problem isn't especially practical. The woofer cones would have to be raised to about 6-7' from the floor, where the 13' floor/ceiling mode is at a minimum. Alternatively the speakers would have to pulled out from the 21' wall so that the woofer cones(not the back of the M80s)are about 6-7' from the wall, where the 13' width mode is at a minimum. You might want to try the latter move just as a temporary experiment to see what the effect would be.

If speaker placements(or lowering the ceiling)aren't practical, equalization with e.g., BFD is the remaining possibility. Different speakers or a separate sub(assuming that they have strong normal response at that frequency)should have a similar problem, so it's unclear why your other speakers didn't exhibit it.

Yes I have tried using the bass and treble controls on the reciever.I also looked at the manual for the Berenger feedback destroyer.It looks intresting but it doesnt have any rca inputs or outputs.How would I hook it up to my reciever? By the way , why hasn't anyone responded to my original question about the SAE 180 ?

BFD works fine with sub but not recommended for full range speakers. If you really like those M80, then try your best to play with the M80 placement regardless how many furnitures you'll have to move. If that is not possible, then your best option is either buy or build yourself a first order highpass crossover (6dB/Octave), 2nd order(12dB/Octave) is way too steep and cut off too much bass so you dont' want that. Try rolling off point at around 45~60hz(since you said your room has a spike at around 32hz and 40hz), a variable crossover network has better flexibility, do a search for Harrison Labs, their stuff are decent. If you don't feel comfortable messing around with crossover then you better off downgrading your M80 to either M60 or M22ti, they have smaller footprints, less bass, and forgiving on placement. the safest bet is M22ti.

"why hasn't anyone responded to my original question about the SAE 180 ?"

I'm sure if anyone knows about this vintage EQ they will respond.
Unfortunately, I do not have any experience with the SAE 180.

I have never had the 180 but I have had a few older SAE''s and the reason I kind of went around your question is because I never really liked any of them.

Also, I believe you can get RCA to XLR connectors or adapters.

http://www.haveinc.com/products/haveflex.html

These are what I use. Your local Radio Shack should have something similar.

I edited my post above because I made a mistake.
This may be useful
http://www.haveinc.com/products/haveflex.html

It seems as though it's time to consider getting rid of the missus. Is she a good cook?

I was wondering when someone was going to mention that .

Thanks a lot for your input fellas.Now i've got to sort out the various suggestions and see which will work out for me.By the way the "missus" happens to be a fantastic cook.She just thinks I spend more time with my system then with her(She's probably right).

Don't they all .

Being in a smallish apartment does have SOME advantages. She can't accuse me of that one.

Iv'e noticed a DBX 10/20 equalizer on Ebay which uses a mike to measure room frequency response and sets the proper response through a built in computer . It goes for around $400.Is any one familier with this item? Again I can't seem to find out to much about it on the internet since it is a vintage component.

I too have too much bass but its due to the fact that there isnt enough soundproofing, like a carpet for example. My ceiling is 14 feet high also. I had to turn my bass down. I dont know how much furniture you have, just thought it might help.
Good Luck

Hi fellas I,m back again.Still having problems with the bass on my m80's.Iv'e heard good things about the Behrenger Feedback Desroyer.Does any one know whether it will work on my m80's in a stereo setup.I know that it works well in equalizing a sub woofer(mono)

Just solved my bass problem with A vintage DBX 10/20 computerised equalizer.This gizmo is really fantastic.No more boom ,no more excessive bass.I have nearly ruler flat response across the board.It even has a button to roll of highs to concert hall level.The m80's are really marvelous sounding now.I don't understand why they don't make these things any more.Thanks for all the input guys.

Thank goodnessyou solved your boomy bass problem. Now you can enjoy your axioms like the rest of us.

Dang... Just missed a chance to put in my two-cents worth..
I was going to ask if you had checked to be sure that the factory installed bi-amp straps were still in place.. If not, and you were running the speaker leads into the bottom two posts, you would not be sending any signal to the tweeters..
You wouldn't be the 1st to have that that happen..