Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Did I needlessly throw my money away on Axiom's?

Alright so I got in an argument with some friends on IRC tonight. They're convinced I totally threw away my money on my Axiom + SVS + Denon setup. I bought M60's, VP150, and QS8's, they cost about $1900 US I think all together.

I'm being told that my speakers would sound as good as a 5.1 Bose system, or a $1000 setup... There's obviously no convincing them that what I spent is just a drop in the bucket to some... help?

- D

I'm guessing they don't have HT's of their own and most likely are jealous of yours.

If this is not a joke (not knocking you Daphoid, but I'm a bit shocked and wonder if you are pulling our 'collective' leg) then I'm speechless. Comparing Axiom and Bose speakers is like comparing crisp, juice Granny Smith Apples to those tiny pastey things the local grocer tries to convince you are apples. Both are fruit and will take up space in your stomach, but your enjoyment of consumption is VERY diffrent.
Do your friends have any 'logic' behind what they say or are they just goosestepping and parroting along with bose's market-speak?
Also, I have friends who think I throw money away on my audio and computer equipment, but that is a difference in priority, not the quality of what I buy. They think spending that much money on audio eq is a waste of money period, axiom or otherwise.

jr

I guess there are 2 questions:
1. Are you happy with your "non-Bose" set-up?

2. Have those other guys even heard your system?

I'm assuming that your post is serious, but the whole thing stretches credibility a bit.

I can tell you I have listened to Bose, Polk, Infinity, and a bunch of other speakers and to me, with my ears, in my room the Axioms sounded the best. Not even mentioning the price. The Axioms sounds better than the other speakers that cost twice as much.

Was it a waste of money for me? No! (On the other hand it might be for someone else, that can't hear the difference between Bose and Axiom.)

I think that Ray's questions are perfect. All that matters is your happiness with your setup, and if they have not heard your system then they really have little to say.

jr

All I can say is that I have seen a number of friends expensive HT systems and none of them held a candle sound-wise to my relatively basic Axiom system (M2 + VP100 + PSB sub + no-name surrounds).

Most people seem to measure HT systems by "total watts"; using those measurements you sure paid too much, wasting money on good speakers when all you need is a big crappy amp

Seriously though -- the only way you might have thrown away money is by purchasing better sound than what you could have gotten by with. We're probably all guilty of that, but personally I get more enjoyment out of the extra $$ I spent on good speakers than on any equivalent purchase I can think of (yeah, even the whiskey).

Could you get the same sound quality for significantly less ? No way. Find some good PSBs or Paradigms being cleared out by a retailer and you might get close or match the value, but I haven't found any speaker that really beats Axiom for the same money. You can get a nice system for less money, no question, but not AS nice a system.

First...are you sure you spent only $1900 on the entire setup?

Second...I have found that most people do not know what sounds better unless they actually hear the speakers side by side with the same equipment......especially guys on IRC that think Bose sound good.

This is some April Fools thing, right ?

Daphoid, you absolutely did not waste your money! I know people who have spent A LOT more, and did not end with a substantially better system. As for B(l)ose, not worthy to be mentioned in the same sentence IMHO. Enjoy what you have.

Uh, are these people HT aficianados? Have they heard a good HT setup (ie, not Bose crapola)?

Besides, a 5.1 Bose setup WOULD cost you $1900.

I think the bottom line is this:

Are you happy with what you have? Have you heard better at a comprable price point? It's about YOU, man, not them.

Where is Peter's sig line when you actually need it?

In reply to:

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It's about YOU, man, not them.

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You damn right,tell um kcarlile.I wouldn't give a damn what anyone else has to say.I think we all hear the same ol crap from others that have no idea what a good sounding system is like.

on them.

A different set of questions to consider :

- did you pay too much for the quality of system you received ? NO WAY !!

- did you buy more system than your room required, ie could a smaller (eg. M22/VP100/QS4) system perform as well for you ? Possible but unlikely; how big is your room ?

Remember that cheaper/smaller HT systems can work well in a small space but you need bigger speakers to really fill a medium/large room.

- did you buy more quality than you need, ie could you spend half as much, get a much less good system and be happy with it ? That one is tough, only you can answer that.

Bottom line is that unless you were looking for something cheap and bought M60/VP150/QS8 in the misguided belief that it was the cheapest HT system on the market it's hard to believe you made the wrong decision.

Alright.

1. The total argument wasn't a "Bose vs. Axiom" type deal, that was just a small comment. The main argument was that I spent way to much money, and as am example, a $500 Fluance 5.1 setup (which I've been told are very nice speakers for their price range) could sound as good as my Axiom's.

2. No I'm not pulling your leg.

3. My room ix 20' x 14' x 7.5', yes I do have quite a bit of system for the current space, but I don't plan to be here forever, and when I buy my first house, I don't want to have to upgrade my HT too, I'd to be able to move into a bigger room without having to ugprade the equipment.

4. Well I'm Canadian, so going by prices (no taxes are anything):

Speakers: $1720
Custom Finish: $275
Subwoofer: $1200
----------------------------
Total: $3195 USD <-- now keep in mind that the first figure is with today's values, and the dollar is higher then it was back in the summer But you get a rough idea.

So Basically I spent $3200 USD on speakers, and I'm being told that a $500-1000 system would sound exactly the same.

2 words for them.

PROVE



IT.

I'm laughing so hard I'm crying.... I'll put my Axiom setup up against any Bose system of today. I think you need to find some new friends, just joking. At one time, Bose made some decent speakers, I remember my college years, my roomate had some 901's and listening to Floyd was the [censored], or maybe it was the stuff we tried to block with the towel under the door.

Anyway, I had a guy at work tell me his 5.1 Bose setup rocked. I asked him what he payed, he responded, almost 2 grand...2 Grand for these little cubes, what a joke. After he listened to my setup recently, the look in his eyes was "I got screwed on my Bose"....

As long as your happy, who gives a crap what you friends think...

Axiom = Corvette
Bose = Chevette

Later

Check out some other thoughts on Bose here and (maybe even more interestingly,here.

I know that there's more to this than Axiom VS. Bose, but if your friends really think that Bose is "it" and the standard by which others should be judged, it kinda disqualifies their opinions, in my own personal opinion.

I've just been down this road and have done a pretty good amount of research before purchasing my Axioms a couple of months ago. They have an outstanding, industry-leading reputation for good sound per $.

Could you have spent less? I dunno. My father thinks spending more than $149 for a HTIB is wasteful, but you know, we all have different levels of equipment that satisfy us.

Personally, I look at it this way: I don't vacation much at all, I don't spend money on clothes, bar-hopping, or on sports cars. My HT, though, I enjoy. And right now, I'm thinking I should spend more!

I'm getting the impression his friends just think that Axioms are expensive. The bit about Fluance is interesting... they seem to talk a good game, but something tells me they aren't as good as Axioms. I'd like to see them pony up for a shootout, though...

ENJOY WHAT YOU GOT!
And when your friends say anything like this again...........just remember..............................THEY'RE TALKING OUT OF THEIR A$$!

Daphoid, the only way the argument makes any sense is in an "ignorance is bliss" sort of way. When I first started looking into home theater I didn't know what was out there so I started from the bottom at Best Buy and Circuit City and listened to Yamaha, Sony, Bose and Klipsch (very low end) systems and to someone that had never owned a subwoofer or a home theater they all sounded great. The Klipsch sounded best and for $1300 I could have walked out of there with a Yamaha receiver and 6 speakers and I would have been loving life. I never would have known what I was missing. But once I looked around I realized how much better the sound can be I ended up with a system that I think is 200% better for less than twice the price. And at that point I had listened to systems that were way more expensive than what I bought and decided for myself that they weren't worth the difference in price. The bottom line is that once your system is set up, get some CD's and DVD's that demonstrate how good your system sounds and let your pals listen to it and decide for themselves. Then tell them that every time they want to come over and listen to it it will cost them a beer...

In a medium/large room I don't believe there is anything you could get for the same price that would sound as good. You could definitely get an OK system for $500 but it would NOT compare with what you have today. The Fluance speakers look great for the money but I don't think anyone can honestly claim that they are in the same league as Axioms for sound. The Fluances look a lot like the "high end digital monitors" I use for surrounds until I can afford QS8s -- decent sound, but not even comparable to M2s in terms of overall sound quality.

Again, we keep coming back to the same questions. Could you have spent much less and still be happy ? Quite possibly, you have a heck of a nice system today and we all used to get by with crappier sound. Could you have spent much less and got an equally good system ? No way, stop worrying.

In reply to:

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You could definitely get an OK system for $500

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Hell I have more than that in a headphone set up.Is that a waste of money,I don't think so.

Its what you want and like not what your friends think you should have.Almost everyone I know thinks I'm crazy but I really don't care.Most of them don't know squat about what sounds good.My father-in-law just spent $500 on a Bose wave radio...........now to me that is a waste but he seems to like it,so I don't comment on his decision its his $$$$.

totally agree FogHorn, when I tell people about Axioms, they say "Axiom who? Personally, I had never heard about Ax's until about 6 months ago. If it was not for advertisements on audioreview.com, avsforum.com, etc.. who knows what I would own today...

I can't believe people think Axioms are expensive, if anything they should be more expensive for what you get. I think it is rediculous what Bose speakers sell for, heck my friend just purchased a 5.1 Bose system with cube speakers for a crazy price, he is so stuck on the Bose bandwagon.

In addition, my brother in law owns a professional recording studio, he is a BIG B&W fan, which also blows away Bose, anyway he has always had B&W's in his studios. Now that he has heard my Axiom's he is starting to think his next order will be from Axiom.

I personally compared B&W 700 series, Paradigm's, NHT, and Klipsh, Bose wasn't even a thought, and in my opinion for the money these brands can't compare, but in detail and accuracy they are as good or better.

If your friends have nice cars ask them why they threw away too much money on it when they could have bought a used Yugo. If they say that is not the same tell then why, the Yugo and the BMW will get you to the places you are wanting to go to. Oh, I guess the BMW is nicer, drives a hell of a lot better and is all around a better car but then again, they listen to Bose so go figure...

PS... Who gives a crap what anyone thinks besides you.

Daphoid, I'm in total agreement with the rest. You've got a hell of a system for the $$$$'s spent! We all know Axiom and SVS are some of the best values out there hands down. If your friends don't then too bad. Bad luck for them.

In my mind there definitely is a point of dimishing returns with $$$$ spent but one does have to spend a fair amount, as you have, to get to this point. I believe you're there!

Of course this is all relative, one man's oasis is another man's hell... I've heard the Bose systems and to ME thats hell!


To this date my wife still doesn't understand this. To her a HTIB system would be just fine. Not to me! In sound quality we have different values. ( hopefully this will change once I get everything )

These are all very much value based opinions and its for this reason that its impossible to make a strong argument to anyone that doesn't value sound quality to the same degree. For instance to me I'd never spend 100K and an amp, even if I could, I just don't value the degree sound improvement I would supposedly get. Others on the other hand definitely would and do. If I can't appreciate the improvement then too bad for me.

For you, I think its more important, as it is to me, to know what like minded people, who value the same quality in sonics, think. And I think its clear from the above posts you've got a great system! A great system of outstanding value!

And the Fluance systems... just look at the specs. You've got them beat. Your monster SVS would eat them for breakfast!

Cheers, jag

I'm not sure what to make of this thread. Anyway, I guess my question is do you like your speakers? if so, then screw your buds and ignore them. I think Bose for the most part is a joke but.........they have got it right a few times also. Ever heard a set of 10.2 towers? Nice speaker. 901's when set-up and backed with some decent power can get the job done. As for the cubes, yeah whatever. Not sure what the hell is up with that train of thought.

As for Fluance speakers, don't take them for granted. Do a little research on the line and you will find some heavy hitters behind this brand that were instrumental in PSB and Polk just to name two. That doesn't necessarily mean there good but I bet you they are better then most people think they are. That doesn't mean there great, but I doubt they are what you would call junk!..................now if you had said Streem, you would have gotten a totally different view point from me! :-)

This is a joke right? ;-) I think our friend Daphoid just needed to hear more compliments and wanted to boost his reassurance...hehe.
No offense or anything, but if you were smart enough to buy these Axiom, Denon, and SVS, then you sure as hell ain't dumb enough to believe what your "friends" said, I'm sure you'd already audition many speakers out there so if you're still in doubt and questioned decision you made. Maybe, just maybe...it's about time to upgrade and jump on higher end gears, your equipments are nice, but there's always better out there for much more money. ;-)

I have M22ti and SVS PB12-ISD(aka PB1) myself and I too, often have the urge and itch to upgrade them, but whenever I fire them up with my favorite CD....I realized again that they're doing a pretty darn good job at music reproduction, and that's when I knew I needed to spend more time to listen to all my music collection instead of looking for excuses and spending countless of hours to shop for other equipments. Nowaday I found myself shopping more and more for CD and DVD...heh. :-)

About the "being happy with a lesser system thing": I think that you may have been happier with a crappy system and never known the difference if you had heard nothing better. However now that you have a real high end audiophile type setup you probably say to yourself all the time things like "man, X sounded like crap compared to my system" I know that I do. When I first got the axioms I was impresseed, but did not notice a hugely vast difference between them and any other system, but now when I hear a inferior system I know it is inferior...

daphoid- let me start out by saying "thank you", for not posting anymore pics of your system. JK.

dude, i think your friends are off their rocker.. i mean really? i know you have probably heard a few other systems, so what are your impressions? i have heard a complete 5.1 boston acoustic system, 5.1 infinity system, and the classis 5.1 bose mini-boxes sytem. not to mention, the 7.1 paradigm audition system at the local stereo store. my axioms(and my crappy sub) blew them all out of the water. the only one that was close was the paradigm system, but keep in mind, it was in a room specifically designed to sound good, and that particular paradigm system was over $4000 bucks. i got custom axioms and my sub for less than half that price.

i will agree that, in my opinion, that seems like TOO much system for your room, but like you said, you wont live there forever. and with the SVS being almost half of the speaker budget, its not logical to say that you have "thrown money away" on axioms. i dont think you threw any money away on anything.

sounds to me like your buddies might be a little jealous. i would be happy, and take pride in what you got. dont let those guys try and bring you down, or second guess yourself.

BTW- its nice to be idolized, i think?

bigjohn

I can't believe that someone else did not post this:

"No Highs, No Lows, Must be Bose!"

"Did I needlessly throw my money away on Axiom's?"

- Aren't friends great?... The only way you would've wasted your money is if you're deaf.

I would consider his "friends" blessing and very very lucky if they can not hear the difference between BOSE and Axiom, that's mean they could easily save TONS of money by getting those cheap speakers at Walmart and BestBuy. While you're at it, might as well go straight to Radio Shack to pick the rest of your gears, they're similar to BOSE and cost a whole deal less. Man...how I wish I could have a pair of ears like that and be satisfied with those Optimus and RCA stuff ;-)

1) 'Too much' is all relative. It depends on whether you can afford or not. A pair of $200 speaker may be 'too much' for someone.

2)Why people spend $200+ plus on an Air-Jordon basketball shoe and not even play basketball. They feel proud to wear in front of people. The 'satisfaction' can't be qualify in logical sense. They just feel happy. It's so simple

3) It's all MARKETING. These people are smart enough to promote their product and make you feel you need to own one to prove your success, status, rich etc. I believe BOSE has more marketing than Axiom (I still have to wait for my Axiom - hoepfully before X'mas), people get to know their name better. Therefore they may think you spent unnecessary amount of money for an 'unknown' product. (I took my chance already)

4. Anyway, enjoy your music and go and listen to more systems in future. I'm sure you'll find your investment worth down the road.

from what teh guy at intellexual.net says the bose system is the real rip off -- why pay $1200 for a bunch of 2 inch air mashers that can only really produce sound at 7khz? now THAT seems like money flushed down the toilet. Like I said before, just get your friends to listen to your system for a few weeks. One day they will get home to their BOSE systems and realise that they have all ordered axioms in their sleep because their ears would not take any more insults.

Here it is.

Also, what kind of customer support do you get from Bose? Is it as good as Axiom's?

But the most important thing is the sound. It is up to your ears.

Well put Tim, and welcome.

Late to reply just noticed the post and It caught my interest. I've been in audio since 1973.

I can say one thing that has remained consistent. Anytime someone uses Bose as a standard for high fidelity there is no reasoning with them until they've heard the system in question.

Quite simply they are speaking out of ignorance. They've never really heard high end in a home enviroment, if at all.

The poster who likened Axiom to a Corvette and Bose to a Chevette is quite correct. All you're friends drive Chevettes and Pintos. They don't even know about Corvettes and can't fathom anything being better then the crap they drive around.

My dad has some Bose 301's. I have Axioms, Aperions and PSB's. Any of these 3 are so far ahead of Bose it is laughable to compare them.

I also have some Focus Audio FS688's in my main system. Little 13x7 minimonitors that sell for $3000 a pair. So I know what bad, good and great sound like.

Rest assured any of the floorstander and monitors Axiom sells are simply great bang for the buck and based on sound should sell for 2X the price.

That was me Stimpy1, what is funny is that I am good friends with a Chevy dealer owner, and his current Vette has Bose speakers in it and they sound pretty good. Maybe Axiom should get into the auto speaker business ...

At one time though Bose did make good stuff, but I can barely remember it, the college years are fading...

Yes, I also still remember when Bose actually made some good stuff. 901's and 601's. Back in my College days as well. At least it sounded good in a cloud of smoke

Don't tell my mommy