Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Apartment dweller needs speaker advice

Hi everyone. This is my first post here, and I'd like some advice. I live in an apartment with my wife and two sons (12 & 10 yrs). A few weeks ago I decided to upgrade my system for the first time in a dozen years. I've decided to get a new receiver and speakers. They will probably be used for 60% music and 40% HT. I'm more concerned with quality music than with HT.

I've done a lot of research on the web, and I have just purchased a Harman Kardon AVR 325. I have also decided on Axiom speakers. I'll probably get the M3ti for mains and the VP100 center. But I'm uncertain what I should get for the surrounds and sub. Our living room is 18' x 12' x8.5' high. The back opens up to a dining area, so it is an L-shaped space. The television will go at the top of the L. I am very concerned that I not disturb my neighbors, particularly downstairs (they're quite uptight about noise).

I would like a sub that improves the listening experience, but is not "boomy". I don't need to rattle the walls, but I would like to hear a good clean bottom. Our tastes in music runs from contemporary club music, ambient music, independent rock, folk, country, & Latin. I've narrowed my choice of subs to the EP125, the Adire Rava, or no sub at all. My concern with the 8" EP125 is that it will be too "thin", and won't add that much to the M3ti's. My concern with the 12" Rava is the opposite, that it will be a "wall rattler". I'm considering not using a sub at all because of the cost savings and because I won't need it in an apartment. What do you think I should do?

I'm also uncertain about which surrounds to buy. For now, I'm just going to get the side surrounds, and probably in the future get another pair for rear surrounds. I like the QS4's, but they are $310 USD. Audioshop has the QS2's for only ~$130 USD. Is it o.k. to use the QS2's with the M3ti's and VP100, or will their smaller size detract from music listening? I know that the QS4's are a better match, but it's hard to justify a price difference of $180 just for surround speakers.

Thanks in advance for your input. I've really enjoyed reading all the past posts on this board.

Kevin

Considerig you are trying to keep your overall sound to a lower level (apartment living, testy neighbors), i don't see why the smaller QS2s wouldn't fit your situation nicely.
As for the sub, its essentially the same principle. If you are looking for a small addition to keep up the lower end of bass, just about any sub will do. Certainly the EP125 should handle what seems to be a relatively simple setup without too much in the way of heavy or loud use. If you prefer to go with a sub that works a bit better in the more 'demanding' range then sure, chek out the Adire offerings (although you can still chek them out regardless since their prices are quite good).
Then in about 5 years when you have some kids going off to college, perhaps you can give them your M3s and VP100 then upgrade yourself (and of course for your wife as well) to some lovely M80s, VP150 and the QS8s you've so surely desired.

Tha'ts my ten cent take on it.

Sorry to hear about the fussy neighbors.

I own a pair of M3's that I run full range without a sub in a second system. Having no sub is positively the most neighbor friendly option. Given your musical tastes, however, you may feel your missing too much "meat" without a sub. These speakers excel at everything they attempt to reproduce. They don't attempt low bass. I have grown accustomed to the way they present music. I don't feel the need to add a subwoofer. The difference could be in Home Theater. If you are at all into sound effect type movies, low bass is a must. My advice is try the M3's full range. Give yourself some time (at least a couple weeks of serious listening) to get used to the way they sound. Then decide if you want to add a subwoofer.

I'll throw my 2 cents in here...

I was considering some of the same stuff you are (except I listen only to music - no HT)... I was looking at M3s or M22s... now I don't have kids, but I do have cats - and those speakers pretty much need stands, and the first thing I can imagine my cats doing is knocking them over. I also knew if I bought these I would want a sub at one point - but thinking about the total cost (I'm very frugal) and the fact I too have "sensitive" neighbors, I opted for the M40s. They don't cost much more than M3s with a pair of stands (esp. if you buy from the factory outlet)

I'd say these are really nice full-range speakers that my cats couldn't possibly knock over... They might not go low enough for club music, but I think they'd be fine for ambient. As for indie rock, I listen to quite a bit of that, and I'd say it fits that genre perfectly. Sometimes if I realy listen, I can tell the speakers aren't going as low as some of the more bass-heavy music is trying to express - but I personally don't find anything missing. They are really smooth and clear - I actually find myself happier at lower volumes with them than my old speakers due to their clarity - which I'm sure my neighbors enjoy (they are famous for calling everyone's landlord on the block).

Back to the indie rock - I don't know if you are familiar with The Magnetic Fields, but they are one of my girlfriend's favorite bands that I never liked much until I heard their album "Holiday" on our new Axioms - and I was blown away at how GREAT it sounded. By your tastes, it seems like something you would like a lot, and I seriously recommend listening to that album with whatever Axiom you choose.

-nowave

p.s. This Mortail Coil and The Cocteau Twins are two other bonds that just SHINE on my new speakers... but now I'm just gushing....

hey kevin,i share the same problem you do,condo-people above
and below me.my room is 13' x 19' x 8',similar to yours.my
listening prefence however is opposite to yours,60% ht,40%
music.i'm using m3ti,vp100.qs4's.the qs4's are worth every
penny extra!i also am using a 10" powered sub.your point
about t 8"sub is valid,as well as,the 12"sub.ive found the
10" sub is perfect for my listening purposes.i listen to a lot off dvd concerts now,and less to cds than i use to.if
u do not purchase a sub,maybe m40's would be a better front
end option for you,but less dramatic for HT.in either event
think seriously about the qs4's,you won't regret it.
happy entertainment.......19

Kevin.. I feel for ya my friend.. I can still remember my days of apt dwelling.. A notch above my dad yellin at me to 'Turn it down!'.. :> And later, married with kids.. Their sticky little fingers into EVERYTHING !! But, as Chesseroo so eloquently pointed out, one day you will have it all to yourself.. Patience my friend, patience..
In the meantime, enjoy life as it comes.. If that means yer neighbors get a little annoyed with your tunes once or twice a week, so be it.. That's what Saturday afternoon is all about, isn't ? And don't tell me you don't like to let yer hair down.. Anybody that lists Latin (read Passion) and Rock (in any form) as musical interests, has to find a way to express it..
You can't go wrong with a sub.. It doesn't have to be cranked to be enjoyed. Axioms sound terrific at any volume.. And same for subs.. You can go without it, and not really notice.. But when you bring up those lower freqs, to match what ever volume the mains are running at, the difference is night and day..
I just don't understand those that believe subs don't belong in stereo music ? You know what I mean ? I digress, sorry..
Anyway, that EP-125 will fill your apartment with nothing but great sounds, and allow ya to enjoy a movie or two on the weekends to boot..
My advice, go for it.. I just checked, and there is a black EP 125 in the factory outlet for $342.. Nuff said ?

>>I just don't understand those that believe subs don't belong in stereo music ?

I would have to disagree somewhat with Mikey on one bit. Try listening to some more recent Radiohead with a sub. You definitely lose the effect when bass frequencies pan from one channel to another and your bass is running through a sub. This was my reason for returning the M3/sub combo and going with the M60. The M3/sub combo is not bad - just not neccessarily a true representation of a two-channel source. Give me TWO subs and a pair of M3s and watch me drool. Another case is Superbass 2 - three jazz bass players - left, center, right. If all of the low freq was coming out of a single source, you would lose all aspects of who is playing what.

I probably would recommend the M40 over the M3 as well, just to get a little more bass extension. Either route is going to be a good one. No matter what, you will probably want a sub at some point. Your budget will probably dictate the route more than anything else (it did in my case). Just my take on things.
-jd

Jazzdrummer.. Ok, you have me at a bit of a disadvantage, as I have two subs, and never run with just one.. So, I can't honestly say you are wrong about any directional perception you may have with regard to your set up.. But, in most cases, it seems when this happens one is either sitting too close to the sub, or has the sub turned up to loud.. Orrrrr, as is the case with my cheap set of KLH Tens (I know, there goes whatever little creditability I might have had) they tend to draw attention due to poor quality of sound..
Low frequency is in itself inherently non-directional, eh, so it should not really draw your ears to it..
Big room, small room, loud or soft music, it's all in the set up.. And that can be broken down into each cd you play, and sometimes the individual tracks within.. Each requiring a bit different degree of highs mids and lows.. Take it as far as you want.. Sometimes it's fun, sometimes it's not :>
But, if you are looking for a full complete sound, how can you honestly say to yourself "There are no sounds worth listing to in music below (pick a number) hrz" ? Those frequencies are there in a live performance.. Shouldn't one do ones best to fully recreate that same sound at home ?
Just my thoughts.. What do you think ?

Screw the neighbors. I was in an apartment when I first took possession of my Epic 80 setup. Certainly, it didn't sound nearly as good as it does now in my new home because of the volume restriction but it still sounded incredible.

You won't be living in an apartment forever (unless you're in a cramped city back east in which case ignore me) but you will have these speakers for a very long time. Do not let the sensibilities of others dictate your hobby! Buy what you'll enjoy now and into the future.

Gee, that didn't sound stereotypically American, did it?

Thanks for all of the replies. I've decided that I'm definitely getting a sub, and I've narrowed it down to the Adire Rava or the Axiom EP175. The Rava is very highly regarded. It goes lower than the EP175, and it seems to have the same goals as the Axioms--being "musical" is more important than HT slam. It also looks nice, and it is $100 USD less than the EP175. However, it has one major shortcoming for me: it's not shielded! I had planned on putting it near the TV so that it would be between the main speakers (depending, of course, on how it sounds when positioned there). I'm unsure how far away I'll need to put it.

Are the Axiom subs shielded? I think I remember reading somewhere that they are.

BTW, Semi_On, I do plan on living in this apartment forever. :} I've got a great lease in a 3-bedroom apartment in the best community in Manhattan in which to raise kids. We were on a 7-year waiting list to get into the apartment complex in a 2-bedroom, and then we we had to get on another waiting list for 8 years for our current 3-bedroom apartment. I can't imagine that I'll ever live anywhere else.