Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Why don't people like Pioneer?

OK. I probably shouldn't ask this question, but I am going to anyway. I have had Pioneer receivers for years without any problems or complaints. From my first 2 channel Pioneer up to my latest Pioneer Elite 54Tx 7.1...

I like them a lot. Granted, my first couple were because they were "priced right" for a guy in high school and again for my second one I bought when in college.

I love the new Advenaced MCACC configuration feature too. I will agree with some others that the remotes are generally "less than perfect" but I have a touchscreen remote that I use anyway, so I don't care too much.

So why Denon, HK, and the like but not Pioneer?

Just looking for thoughts. For $650 I got a THX Select 7.1 receiver with all sorts of options and config capabilities.

Nick, I really like Pioneer also, since high school back in the 80's, I've owned 3 Pioneer (non-elite) receivers. When I was shopping for a new receiver months ago, I was --><-- close to going with a 53tx or the new 54tx. I still have my old Pioneer CS60 4-way Turbo Bass speakers with tone control buttons and led level indicators on the top, they are like brand new.... I'm sure I would have been very happy with the Elite. I think I was to a point where I was so tired of hearing all the biased talk on AVS about them, which I think is a bunch of BS, and when I talked to some of the Axiom tech guys, they talked me into the Denon 2805. And by the way, I love the Auto Setup and Room EQ on the Denon...

later

i would doubt if there is one obvious thing to point at, to say, "we dont like pioneer". i think it could be several things.

1- i think they have a history of not working out of the box.. such as mentioned with the sonys
2- i know i often lump them into the mid-grade equipment, along with kenwood, panasonic, JVC, Sherwood, teac, etc.
3- i think there is a certain amount of questionability about a product name, when they try and branch out into every aspect of electronics avail.. dont know if that makes sense.. sony for example. they make at least one type, of almost every single electronic gadget you can think of.. the mindset being, if they stretch themselves that thin, then they cant possibly do all of them well.. make sense?

if you like the pioneer stuff, then by all means, use it.. dont let us try and change your mind.. not to mention, the 'Elite' series has gotten great reviews. its really all just opinion, so whos to say whos is right or wrong.

bigjohn

I agree with some of what you say bigjohn. One thing I've noticed is that they are just a bit behind in coming out with technologies of their competitors (for ex. surround modes) I haven't really known them to have problems out of the box, and I'm not sure I'd put them in the same category as Kenwood, Sherwood, Panny's, JVC, Teac, especially the Elite line. Just my 5 cents.

In reply to:

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Just my 5 cents

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oh yea.. well, what i said was my $.02 cents.. so with you .05, and my .02, thats still only .07.. so we still cant afford crap!!

bigjohn

Good point about being a little behind in technology. I was hoping to get a Pioneer DVD player, but I didn't see anything with DVI or HDMI, at least that I remember even considering...

Good point. Diversity is good in business and investments, but I have found that companies that spread their R&D a bit thin by trying to have their hands in everything, usually struggle. Somewhat of an example is in the PC industry. Take Dell vs. Sony.. (My sister was looking for a new PC, so this is fresh in my mind.) She was wanting Sony because she could get it at Best Buy for the same price as a Dell. Problem is, as I told her, Dell makes PCs only, Sony makes radios, cd players, other small electronics, oh and some PCs too. I know Dell rebrands peripherials under the Dell name, but they don't make them, just PCs and servers. I told her that this is a main reason the Dell has the largest market share of PCs and why Sony is just a blip on the radar.

I guess that would carry over to AV as well. Like people that are all excited about SVS possibly coming out with a full line of speakers. Why? That doesn't impress me. Stick with subs, that is what they are know to be good at. Diversity is not always good, I guess.

As for working out of the box, no problems for me, but of course that is 4 Pioneer receivers, a CD changer, and a DVD player out of thousands, and I shouldn't have problems.

And for mid-grade. I would agree with the non-Elite line. Then again, that was all I could afford at one time, and even now, I am on the "lower end" cost-wise in their Elite line. If I was given $1500 to spend on a receiver, I would have looked elsewhere I am sure.

Thanks for making me think!

I've liked the Pioneer Elite stuff, but their "regular" line just seems a little lacking when compared to Denon, HK, etc...

btw...I believe the DV-59i has HDMI.

Yes, but for about $900+ for a single disc player, it is a bit more cash than other brands...

The one great thing about Pioneer products is that if you're willing to go without a warantee, you can get their stuff for FAR, FAR less than msrp. Just search the web...even their top-o-the-line stuff can be had for nearly 50% off sometimes.

There are also *some* Pioneer products which do get recommended on here. The 578 DVD player and 1014 receiver both get mentioned quite a few times. I don't think enough people have experience with the 1014 to get wide acceptance yet but the people who do own a 1014 tend to be very happy with it.

I have a Pio 45TX and love it. In fact, it was recommended to me by an old poster who's now MIA, "sushi".

The Elite line is a great product line IMHO. I think the biggest knock that it gets is the supposed inaccuracy of the MCACC, but so does the Yammy version. I claim ignorant bliss...

You beat me to it, I knew there was a big Elite supporter on here back when I joined, I think Skippy is another one. I've actually heard just the opposite about the MCACC. I've had not complaints about my Denon Auto Setup and Room EQ, but I don't want to start that discussion again

Well I have a Pioneer DVD player and a VSX-D812 receiver. My first pieces of HT so I have no other brands to compare my experience with them too.

I think the receiver was good value for money at the time I bought it. A NAD/Onkyo with same features was much more. I do however get worried when I read peoples post saying Pioneer receivers are not good for music/ they're bright/ not as detailed as others. It does have a learning remote which is a big plus.

The amp does have one critical flaw: lowest crossover setting is 100Hz. I've ended up running my 3 M22's as large and using the Sub+Mains setting for bass.
This alone makes me wish I'd spent the extra 20% and bought the Onkyo 501.

I have the 54 elite also. You know it sounds great with the Axioms so why bother posting this? thx.... you have it Denon, hk lots don't as one example. Each receiver has different features. Some people here are misinformed on features, how accurate Macc is etc. Elite is great as are the others. Do you really care that 4-5 people post and Pioneer owners don't?Here is a review of the 52 (Not near as good as the 54tx) from Perfect vision magazine

For purposes of comparison, the Denon-AVR-2805 re-viewed in Issue 57 had a more finely graduated 8-band EQ and it cleverly checked for correct speaker polarity. But the Pioneer was more transparent sonically and less congested during stereo playback. While not as sophisticated as the “advanced” version currently fitted to Pioneer’s elite Elite receivers like the VSX-54TX, MCACC nevertheless is effective and affords enough flexibility for users to create their own custom settings and to trim existing EQ settings to their liking.
http://www.theperfectvision.com/newsletter/tpv59/pioneer_elite.html
The point is it's what You like

I used to be a Pioneer proponent. Until my intelligent son introduced me to the wonders of Yamaha's AVR's. I believe Pioneer used to make some pretty good stuff. But, I don't think they are offering anything these days that compares with the quality of HK, Denon, and Yamaha products. I tried to go back to Pioneer with all the hype surrounding the 1014. I know may new owners of this receiver are happy with it, but I was very disappointed with it. But, I am very happy with my new Denon.

I'm a bit disappointed with their universal dvd players, since I only have one DVD-A disk, which won't play on my 563a.

I recently purchased both the Elite 56txi and the Universal Elite 59AVi and am loving them both. The sound and features are all I need.

While pricey, the 59Avi offers a couple important features for me.
1) It has the i.link connectivity, which allows me to hook up one single digital cable between the player and the receiver to transmit all of the different audio signals. The receiver of course recognizes each format automatically making setup and use a breeze. The digital connection also sends over a great signal in my opinion.

Secondly, the player has the hdmi output, which I send directly to my Sony HS51 projector, and can send the image in 480, 720 or 1080. The image is spectacular to my eye.

I think you can probably find bigger bang for the buck, but this combo sounds real good and works great together (as one would hope).

Lucky you.

As for me I am still dreaming about the day I can shell out $2000+ for a player/receiver combo. For now I have to settle with a super-cheap Pioneer 578a and a $200 Yammie.

The analog output of the 578a is very very very poor!