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#7979 - 03/09/03 01:36 PM Re: M60 ear fatigue?
vtimpaler Offline
regular

Registered: 03/09/03
Posts: 6
I just purchased the M60's, and have been listening to them for the past 2 days. I noticed some brightness only when pushed to levels far greater than I usually listen to music, I had to push them hard, kinda like getting a new car, and wanting to lay some rubber. I noticed that the speakers just seemed to play better as I pushed them harder, only when I pushed them to wall vibrating levels did I notice the harshness. My room is fully carpeted, with a huge sectional, plus a few side chairs. I believe this helps keep the speakers from sounding harsh.

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#7980 - 03/13/03 01:08 AM Re: M60 ear fatigue?
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
I think Vtimpaler raises an important point. The room is an integral element in the sound of your system. I love the sound of every Axiom and Axiom made speaker I've ever owned. I'd work on my room before I would ever consider dulling down an Axiom.

On the other hand, I had an extra pair of M22 like speakers which I did tweak a bit by replacing the OEM resistors with Caddocks of the same resistance and the capacitors with great big Jensens also of the same values. I also replaced the internal wiring with some 4x9s silver wire, and added some additional internal damping. That particular pair of speakers sounds wonderful. Better than stock? Dunno, maybe, but I do have extra affection for them for the tweaking entertainment they provided.

I'm looking for a pair of rugs to hang on the wall behind my front pair of M60 like speakers in my HT system, am thinking about moving the front center speaker back a bit. I've also moved the twin subs in the room from the 11:00 and 3:00 positions to the 11:00 and 1:00 positions - one behind each front main speaker. Maybe play with the room a bit before you open those beauties up and dull them down.


Edited by 2x6spds (03/13/03 01:12 AM)
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#7981 - 03/13/03 06:32 AM Re: M60 ear fatigue?
Steven Offline
buff

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 41
I have totally rebuilt the crossovers in my M60's, VP150, & QS8's

I constructed them using the factory inductors, Mills resistors, & Sonic Caps from Jeff @ Sonic Craft. I used like for like values for the resistors & caps. I built new boards using point to point wiring.

I also did some internal damping work and replaced all internal wiring with Teflon coated 14g Tef-Flex AG from North Creek Music.

The result was nothing short of stunning. Sound is very fluid, extremely detailed, huge sound stage, speakers have actually disappeared.

Any & all problems with top end ear fatigue, edginess, or harshness are totally gone! Mids and highs are now simply beautiful.

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#7982 - 03/13/03 09:18 PM Re: M60 ear fatigue?
truenorth Offline
regular

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 7
So what I am reading here is with some new resistors, caps, and wires plus labour of love it turns an already excellent M60s to something even better? This is worth considering! By the way which woofer did you remove to get to the cross-over? What did you use to remove the woofer?

Thanks.

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#7983 - 03/13/03 10:19 PM Re: M60 ear fatigue?
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Hi Steven
Could you post the components of the M60's cross over and their values? Thanks!! BTW, did you shock mount the cross overs?
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#7984 - 03/14/03 06:58 AM Re: M60 ear fatigue?
Steven Offline
buff

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 41
The M60 crossovers are attached directly to the back of the speaker binding posts. There are two pcb boards, one on top of the other, and the two boards are connected together by a pair a red & black wire. You get at the crossovers by removing the black binding post basket on the rear of the speakers.

The bottom pc board which is connected to the lower set of binding posts has the crossovers for the woofers and also the crossovers for the tweeters. However, the tweeter section is actually fed (black & red connection wires) from the upper pc board which houses the mid crossover and is connected to the upper binding posts.

So the tweeters & mids are connected to the upper set of binding posts and the woofers to the lower set of posts. Again the tweeter cossover section actually sits on the lower pc board.

The hardest part in doing this was to follow the pc board tracings and get the crossover laid out correctly.

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#7985 - 03/14/03 07:06 AM Re: M60 ear fatigue?
Steven Offline
buff

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 41
Yes I did carefully mount my components on my new crossover board and I securely mounted the new crossovers to the inside floor of the M60.

Components (per speaker):

1. There are 3 inductors 1 each for tweeters, mids, woofers - I did not measure them, they are unmarked for value, and I just reused them.

2. Resistors - Mids two 20W15R & two 20W5R - Tweeters 7W5R & 7W10R - Woofers none

3. Caps - Tweeters 3.3uf & 4.7uf - Mids 3.3uf - Woofers none

I would like to add that doing this is not for the faint of heart. I chose to totally rebuild the crossovers because the factory pc boards are very small in size. All the factory components are mounted close together and are secured by globs of hot glue. There is little room to work with the factory boards.

I had to totally disassemble the speakers to do this project.

The VP150 and QS8's sound wonderful now too.

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#7986 - 03/14/03 10:25 AM Re: M60 ear fatigue?
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Thank you very much, Steven!
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#7987 - 03/14/03 12:08 PM Re: M60 ear fatigue?
truenorth Offline
regular

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 7
Steven,
Thank you again for your detailed descriptions. If it is not too much trouble could you post a picture of your new cross-over network?

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#7988 - 03/15/03 06:20 AM Re: M60 ear fatigue?
Steven Offline
buff

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 41
Give me your email & I will send you a picture

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