Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Odyssey amp with m80s
#8555 02/05/03 10:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 30
prz Offline OP
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 30
Did anyone use the Odyssey Stratos on the M80s ? Asking because they're 4 Ohms (albeit sensitive) and I'm not sure how low they can drop so I rather make sure I'm not underpowering them ? Any subjective opinion on the acoustic match would be good as well.

As well, any experience with groneberg quattro reference cabling and M80s ?

thanks much

-- tony


Re: Odyssey amp with m80s
#8556 02/06/03 01:10 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
Tony, nobody's jumped in on this because it's unlikely that they have any experience with using the equipment you mention with the M80s. I'll give you some thoughts anyway. All I know about the Stratos is what I've read, but it's inconceivable that a heavy-duty amp such as that, which has a high 4 0hm rating, would have trouble with the M80s. You can see the M80 impedance curves along with other parameters on the NRC measurements part of the SoundStage review which you can find at ecoustics.com. If anything, that's more amp than you need, but if you're willing to pay for it, that's your decision.

Forget about "acoustic match" ; it'll sound the same with the M80s as any other properly designed amp operating within its power limits.

So far as speaker cables, don't waste your money. Copper wire is copper wire and there's nothing better. The significant factor is the length of the run. Regular 16 gauge lamp cord would be fine up to about 20 feet and 12 gauge could be used if the run is longer than that.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: Odyssey amp with m80s
#8557 02/06/03 12:19 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 64
P
old hand
Offline
old hand
P
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 64
call klaus and ask him-i bet he giggles because the stratos will handle those speakers no problem, he's a great guy.
of coarse i'm bias because i just recieved a pair of stratos monoblocks with extreme upgrade-

Re: Odyssey amp with m80s
#8558 02/12/03 09:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 30
prz Offline OP
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 30
John, ok, thanks for answer. I spoke with Klaus and yes, the amp is of course too much (I'm getting the dual mono) and it should handle the 80s easy since it can take dips down to 1Ohm but I will probably wander later into some more demanding speakers so I don't mind getting it. Not so sure about the acoustic match but I will be driving other speakers with the setup and we'll see whether it matters. Cables I opted for the Groenbergs Quattros that Klaus is selling and I will bi-wire the 80 to see what I can get out of it in terms of quality. I like the fairly forward, detailed speakers (my fav so far was big infinity kappas) and I assume I'll find roughly a similar speaker with that one. I'm also getting a TacT 2.2 (which is silly, it's almost 2x amp+speakers combined) but I'm a computer guy and my setup in terms of room is not ideal either ;-) I heard it on some Acoustic Research around the class of the Ti80s and certain things throughn the TacT sounded amazingly good, better than $4000 speakers.

Anyway, I'll let you know how the Ti80 stands up ...

-- tony

Re: Odyssey amp with m80s
#8559 02/12/03 06:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 737
aficionado
Offline
aficionado
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 737
In reply to:

Cables I opted for the Groenbergs Quattros that Klaus is selling and I will bi-wire the 80 to see what I can get out of it in terms of quality.




You've been conned.

1) It's copper. It's transmitting a very low frequency signal and it doesn't take much to properly shield a cable at these frequencies, assuming the amount of copper is sufficient to comfortably move the current.

2) Bi-wiring is the single silliest concept in the history of silly concepts that audiophiles embrace. Anyone that buys into this needs an intro course in electrical engineering, specifically a quick into on node voltage analysis. It's the same fricken signal on both posts of the speaker regardless of whether or not the bridge exists as a gold plate between the posts or two spades connected to the same output terminal on the receiver.

Last edited by Semi_On; 02/12/03 06:21 PM.
Re: Odyssey amp with m80s
#8560 02/12/03 08:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 333
M
devotee
Offline
devotee
M
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 333
semi_on... You sure have a way with words.. It appears not everyone out here has had all the training and experience you have ? You might want to take that into consideration next time, before you lay down the law..
We all ask 'silly' questions for time to time, but this forum is for learning, and that means "silly" questions will be asked..
Newbies will be asking many of the same old questions that have been asked and answered before.. It's an open forum, and that's just the nature of the beast..




LFE ! The rest is just details..
Re: Odyssey amp with m80s
#8561 02/12/03 09:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,041
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,041
Semi_On:

You can squak as much about your vast knowledge on electrical engineering. There have been numorous tests to disprove copper wire and bi-wiring but equally or more tests that prove otherwise. If there was no difference then why is there even close to the market out there providing bi-wiring setups and more expensive copper. Even I have heard a DIFFERENCE between my old Monster cables vs my new Kimber cables. If copper is copper why is there an audible difference? If bi-wiring and bi-amping is a silly concept then why are there even remotely as much people enbracing this concept. I think you need to check your ears. If you can't even tell a difference between your 16 gauge Radio Shack copper and yes although expensive $2500 USD Cardas Golden Cross (I would never afford such a thing) your batteries from your hearing aid must have expired or you have tinitis.


Re: Odyssey amp with m80s
#8562 02/12/03 11:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 737
aficionado
Offline
aficionado
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 737
MIKEY, I apologize if my response seemed offensive to the poster. It wasn't intended as such. The problem isn't him but the silly audiophiles that led him to believe he needed bi-wiring in the first place. hence my comment that he had been conned.

My posting style in general tends to be very dry when discussing technical matters. It's hard for me to convey human compassion over black and white text when staring at a fairly sterile computer.

Saturn,

In reply to:

You can squak as much about your vast knowledge on electrical engineering. There have been numorous tests to disprove copper wire and bi-wiring but equally or more tests that prove otherwise




Prove it.

Provide ONE that utilized a double blind test. I've never seen anyone able to do that.

In reply to:

there was no difference then why is there even close to the market out there providing bi-wiring setups and more expensive copper.




A sucker is born every day? There are plenty of markets that exist for silly products that serve no purpose.

In reply to:

Even I have heard a DIFFERENCE between my old Monster cables vs my new Kimber cables.




But did you use a double blind test to determine which sounded better. I've heard many people claim they can hear a difference. I've seen many totally unable to prove it in a scientific setting. I've heard of a few remarkably well trained individuals that can actually hear a difference. None of them have ever scientifically been able to show even consistent preference for one almost insignificant difference over the next.

In reply to:

If bi-wiring and bi-amping is a silly concept then why are there even remotely as much people enbracing this concept.




Same reason religion is so popular, I suppose. People can convince themselves of anything.

In reply to:

I think you need to check your ears. If you can't even tell a difference between your 16 gauge Radio Shack copper and yes although expensive $2500 USD Cardas Golden Cross (I would never afford such a thing) your batteries from your hearing aid must have expired or you have tinitis.




Prove it. And try to do so in a rational matter that doesn't rely on personal insults. Ad hominem attacks are fairly well disregarded by educated people as an ineffective form of debate. If you have to reduce yourself to making fun of people in order to prove your point, your argument has no merit at all.

Regards,
Semi

Re: the myths in audio rant cont'd
#8563 02/13/03 12:57 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
Saturn (and 2x6spds),
These are tired old arguments made day in and day out.

Read Semi's post and think, is it so hard to believe that large companies market their products with impressive scientific jargon to make more cash off of consumers?
Or is it so hard to believe that your own brain can have preconceptions or bias before you form an opinion about something?
Why do you think the job of a supreme court judge or jury selection is so difficult?

What bothers me so much is forum posters that essentially post their opinions as fact. "Yes biwiring is better. Yes those Cardas cables will make a difference." etc.

You live in North America, land of the ever bombarding commercials. Our thoughts and opinions are influenced everyday by something on tv, on the web or on billboards. Lets remove that bias as much as possible by testing these 'biwiring' and other theories in the lab. They can be tested on a larger number of people to remove bias from individuals having great hearing or worse hearing. They can be tested in a controlled environment where the listener never knows what they are listening to, does not know the price, the colour, the brand name, anything at all. Then from this we can derive facts.

If for a fact you know that two types of cables sound different or that people can actually tell the difference between a biwired and a non-biwired system for example, then post the proof and show us the studies that have been done. I would love to read them. Part of my career is experimental design. I thoroughly enjoy sifting through scientific method searching for impartial setups or holes, looking for improvements.
Before you get started however, i should mention, studies have to come from NON biased sources, which is to say, not from a website, not from a company's information booklets, not by having your buddy down the road come and listen with you, but from peer reviewed, scientific journals on human behaviour and acoustics testing (such as what they do and HAVE DONE at the NRC anechoic chamber in Ottawa).

Semi had it right when he stated the obvious, religion vs. science.
The beliefs that exist in audio are the religion. These beliefs are sold everyday.
It should be obvious why people get angry when you question their beliefs.

Knowledge is the key to understanding, but beware the knowledge spread by the less knowledgable...to coin a phrase.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: the myths in audio rant cont'd
#8564 02/13/03 04:14 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,490
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,490
Speaker Wire - A History

I believe that this link has previously been posted on this board by somebody else, but I feel the link is worth citing here again.

This historical essay by Roger Russel** conclusively settles the "myth" of speaker wires (at least for those of us who are willing to use some scientific reasoning). But perhaps even more importantly, the essay eloquently depicts the process in which a good scientific reasoning succombed to the powerful marketing forces, through what the author calls "Authority Belief."

** former Director of Acoustic Research at McIntosh Laboratory, Inc. and the founder of McIntosh Loudspeakers.


Allow me to waste some server space to cite a couple of Dr. Russel's paragraphs:

...Gordon Gow's cable demonstration provided a personal experience for customers that could replace the Authority Beliefs they had relied on earlier. The demonstration was controlled. It was an instant comparison and the listeners did not know the wire identification. Gordon held many such demonstrations in dealer showrooms and at shows.

Despite the effectiveness of Gordon's cable demonstration and the truth about speaker wire, people visiting the McIntosh room at the shows, who had not experienced the cable demonstration, were disturbed that we were using ordinary heavy zip cord instead of one of the popular brands of speaker wire. Instead of listening to the McIntosh speakers and electronics, they recalled "bad" things they had been told about "common" speaker wire and this promoted questions about the "inferior" wire being used. When we changed the wire to a popular brand of wire, customers were happy with the setup, and directed their attention to the McIntosh equipment.

The demand for high quality speaker wire was increasing and appeared to be a new marketing area for several companies. McIntosh did not make or sell speaker wire. The solution seemed very obvious--rather than spend time and effort to create negative sales for McIntosh dealers who were beginning to sell speaker wire, it seemed best to encourage the speaker owner/customer to consult with the dealer about what speaker wire to use. Consequently, I no longer recommended the kind of wire or wire sizes in the speaker manuals.

By 1988, McIntosh no longer supplied audio interconnects with the electronics. Again, many kinds of special audio cables were available to the customer/owner. The dealer could also be consulted about what cables to use.

I credit the success of the speaker wire industry to their expert sales and marketing ability. However, it is my experience that ordinary copper wire, as long as it's heavy enough, is just as good as name brands.




While browsing Dr. Russell's web site, I found the following page also informative, and funny!

Audio Distortions - Truth and Humor

Cheers!

Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Link Copied to Clipboard

Need Help Graphic

Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics24,940
Posts442,457
Members15,616
Most Online2,082
Jan 22nd, 2020
Top Posters
Ken.C 18,044
pmbuko 16,441
SirQuack 13,840
CV 12,077
MarkSJohnson 11,458
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 145 guests, and 4 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newsletter Signup
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4