Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo M2 vs. M3 first impressions (CAGE MATCH !!)

I succumbed to the Zone 2 impulse a long time ago. I'm running Polk rt25i in my kitchen, mounted vertically right up against the ceiling. My only complaint is that I don't have separate volume control for them since they play quite a bit louder than the M22s in the living room.

This was before I had heard of Axioms, of course!

>>Unfortunately Phase 2 is going to require hauling everything downstairs so I can compare with M60s. If I test upstairs and carry the M60s upstairs for A/B testing that's going to prejudice the outcome, there's no way I'm carrying them down another flight of stairs after that

I didn't want to take a chance on scratching the borrowed M3s so I hauled my M60s upstairs instead for some A/B testing with the M3s. The results were very interesting. In that room, playing a wide variety of stereo material, the difference between M60 and M3 is less than the difference between M3 and M2. Yes, it's true !!

You could definitely hear a difference between M60 and M3 but other than that "openness" thing it wasn't obvious which was "better". The M3 does make a few mid-bass instruments (electric bass, bass synth etc..) sound "sharper" which I first guess was the slight bass peak but I'm not really sure.

M3s were a bit more efficient than the M60s, which surprised me. I had to crank the M60s up a tiny bit to match volumes when switching back and forth. There is a whole "deep bass" thing happening with the M60s that just isn't there with the M3s but there doesn't seem to be much that the M3s miss other than that nice solid thump you feel rather than hear.

I was really surprised how well the M3s held up against M60s. I'm going to go back and try a few more CDs but need to get to bed at a decent hour tonight... need an early start at work tomorrow and have to pack up the M3s to return them.

M3s on 24" stands are the same height as M60s for the numerologists in the crowd. "Hmmmm"

John, would you mind running up and down the stairs a few times more just for the fun of it?

One question though. How much more forward sounding are the m60's compared to the m3's? Is it subtle or significant?

Thanks,
Michael.

OK, gonna go out on a limb here and say something silly; like, "The M50 may be the Perfect Axiom Speaker for the average Listener"

Yeah, right, like I'm gonna say THAT!!!

Now, about those dandy M3s:

In all seriousness though, I think I have to agree with just about everything you said based on my experiences of the last couple weeks. I'm guessin' that the M50s are positioned squarely between the M3s and M60s. Maybe even say "The best of both"? (I've never heard the M22s,so I really should temper THAT statement!)

There may be more differences in a larger room of course, for instance I found the M50s to be a tad more efficient than the M3s, but only a teensy 1db.-I had expected more than that!

But Yeah, the M3s really are impressive little speakers that have lost a lot of the respect they had a few years back. 'Bout time we all got reminded of that fact!!

Good show!
Rich.

We'll wait of course for Johns' responce on the M60s, but I can comment on the M50 vs M3.

The M50 surprised me by being about "A Foot" more foreward than my M3s in exactly the same set-up. Enough to be noticeable, but not objectionable. The M3s were at the plane of the TV.

>>John, would you mind running up and down the stairs a few times more just for the fun of it?

Once more and that's it. This speaker testing is hard work, I don't know how Alan manages it

>>One question though. How much more forward sounding are the m60's compared to the m3's? Is it subtle or significant?

That was the big surprise. To my ears there was only the tiniest of differences, maybe like putting the speaker grills on or something. I was almost disappointed

The difference was comparable to turning the vocal track down literally 1 or 2 dB, barely enough to notice. I would have had a VERY hard time time if I was listening to music where I couldn't rely on bass response differences.

Note that I had the speakers along the long wall of a room so the off-axis response wasn't a big factor (that's where Alan says the difference comes from). In a long skinny room I imagine there would have been a bit more difference.

There is much more of a difference in bass response, of course, and that is quite noticeable with some music. The nice thing is that the M3 handles the low frequency instruments well enough that you don't feel like you are missing anything.

After playing a few more tracks the only intelligent thing I could say was that the M3s sounded a little bit "smaller" than the M60s but that the difference was much less than I expected.

The M3s sounded best with their fronts ~2 feet away from the back wall while the M60 fronts needed to be at least another foot into the room to avoid sounding boomy.

I didn't do any SPL measurement but the M3s seemed to be closer to M2s in their ability to fill a large room with loud music, while with the M60s I never felt I had reached their limits even when playing quite loudly.

Bottom line -- even after direct A/B testing with M60s I could be very happy with M3s as my primary music listening system. Not at all what I expected. For now the M60s will stay upstairs and M2s will become HT mains (with a big sub).

Thanks to everyone for the questions and ideas !

And everyone picked on my M3s! Now they get the credit they deserve!

Neener neener!

Bren R.

>>The M50 surprised me by being about "A Foot" more foreward than my M3s in exactly the same set-up.

That's an interesting way of putting it. Rough guess would be that vocals on the M3 sounded like the singer was ~2 feet further away than on the M60.

I therefore deduce that the M60 is a foot more forward than the M50.

Hey guys, ya know what? It's taken years but it looks like we're finally gettin' a handle on exactly how all our speakers line-up in relation to each other. (or at least how we "think" they do) That's got to be worth something!