Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Confession # 5712

Hey guys ... With all the sadness over the loss of Ray and Jack to the "Darkside", and with another guy chiming in on an old AVS thread about his dislike for Axiom speakers, I have disconnected my RS-1000's and RSC-200 from the front of our big theater room ...

We now have our M22-ti's and VDP-150 in their place with a Velo DD-18, Emotiva Pre and power set ups ... and will be posting results on AVS ...

This should be interesting

Been following the thread.

Curse me for a fool! When you were in town, I shoulda let you take my M60s home for a cruise. Next time you're in town, swing by, pick 'em up, take 'em home, match them with your VP150 (No "D" in the name ), and check 'em out. Wait until the other surrounds show up and you can take the QS8s along too. No hurry on returning. Return 'em when you come to town again.

Jack,

Thanks for the offer.I'll be at your doorstep this weekend.Pm me the directions,I'll buy dinner

Jack ... I have the special, non trash can version, thus the "D" ... or "Deluxe" version ...

And the M22's are working just fine... if the need arises, I may grab the 60's .... Thanks !

Darn it I thought he was talking to me

Rick ... Just show up, and tell him you are me ... Ay his age, he will never notice anyway ...

In reply to:

---

Rick ... Just show up, and tell him you are me...Ay his age, he will never notice anyway ...

---

I now have the lights on, so hopefully, no more typos. So far, these are pretty decent. They usually play in the kid's room, BTW ... So, other than last year's comparison with the RLT-Cse's, I never did any critical listening.

Hey Craig!

Let's see if I can get off on a better foot, eh?

I'll be interested to hear your candid assessment. My understanding is that there is a HUGE difference in size and cost between the Rocket setup you describe and the recently-installed Axioms.

I will look forward to hearing how satisfying you find the Axioms in that venue, especially relative to your most recent point of reference. Do you find that some subs mesh better with particular speaker models? i.e. would using a Hsu, SVS, Axiom, Rocket, etc. give you noticably different results with the M22's?

Thank you for contributing your thoughts.

- Tom

LMAO .. OK, Tom ... More listening results later. BTW ... You MAY find this interesting. I bought the Axioms in December, 2003 ... LONG before owning Rockets or Ascends ...

I could not find your post on AVS. Can you supply a link?

Craig, good to see you back posting. I seem to have trouble finding time to lurk-much less post lately. I would also be interested to hear your comments on the M22 paired with various subs. I'm inching closer to upgrading my Dayton 10" sub and researching Hsu, SVS, Outlaw, Rocket, and Axioms. The research that goes into the decision making process is a lot of fun for me, but I'd value your opinions on the various subs paired with the M22's.

It was actually a DOOZY of a thread ... it went silent for over amonth, then just re-surfaced. I was not the thread started, BTW ... but there sure were some fisticuffs ...

www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=503507

Ok... At one time someone had explained how to do a link here. There is a reason I like subwoofers and women better than I like computers. Subwoofers and women are easier to understand ...

www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=503507

I had never looked at AVS before. I have to admit, my first thoughts were "what an ugly site, who picked those colours, Craig deserves a lot of credit for even going there in the first place"

EDIT -- to make a link, put "url" at the front in square brackets, and "/url" at the end, also in square brackets.

Thanks ... It is funny, I remember when I first signed up on AVS ... and thinking the same thing about the color scheme. For those going in to read the thread, have fun with some of the ... wisdom being tossed out.

Not sure which color scheme you guys are talking about, but for those who are members, you do have a choice.

Click on 'User CP,"
Click on "Edit Options,"
Scroll down almost all the way to the bottom of the page to "Style Set."

You'll have a choice of AVS Black or AVS White. I use AVS White.

For those on our forum, who are not aware of it, we have choices as well (Thank you, Ray).

Click on "My Home,"
Scroll down to "Main Configuration,"
Click on "Edit" next to "Display preferences, number of shown threads, languages, colors... ."
The second item down will be "Which style sheet (skin) do you want to use for your display"?

You will find you have 9 choices. I use "The blues (Large Font), but please yourself.

Wow ... Cool Stuff, Jack. I now have White AVS ... much better !

Speaking of ... well... speakers, The first thing about putting the Axioms into the system, everything else stayed high end. This is $800 worth of LCR speakers with a $5000 subwoofer, $4500 pre/processor and power amp ... heck, the SURROUNDS are $1300.

We watched Spiderman and Blackhawk Down last night, and I had not told my son about any speaker changes. AFTER the movies, I asked what he thought about the sound - he shrugged and said "really good, why, did you change something?"

The M22/VP-150's are off to a GOOD start.

Thanks Jack!!! AVS White is happening! That makes us even.

Ray

Does AVS White come after AVS Gray? Am I allowed to use despite my age?

In reply to:

---

I asked what he thought about the sound - he shrugged and said "really good, why, did you change something?"

---

May I suggest that we do NOT tell Mark about this. He's got enough problems with his heart as it is.

Craig
What did you think about the sound?
Anything (pro or con) jump out at YOU?

I thought they sounded really good. Imaging was excellent, the center panned quite consistently with the mains, and there was not even a HINT of ringing, metallic sound, or any of the other problems the guys on AVS claimed to hear.

One area they also excel in is dynamics ... Blackhawk Down has a LOT of dynamic extremes, and even in a 25x24x9.5 foot room, we had no problem with them keeping up.

For comparison to the RS-1000's, the Big Guys, even at a measurably identical SPL, are more articulate. So no, the $440 M22's don't match the RS-1K's ...

But, for $440 + $385 for the center, they are initially impressive, enough so that I am going to leave them in the system for at least two weeks.

So.........

When are you going to borrow Jacks M60s?

You know, Last August I was going to do a full work over of a pair of M-80's ... THAT could be fun. Especially with the EMOTIVA amp ... For those who read up on amps, one MPS-1 has 336,000 uF of capacitance and 75 amps ... in other words, it will drive anything.

Could it drive me to your place to hear it?

No, But with the wrong choice in music, it COULD drive you to drink !

In reply to:

---

it COULD drive you to drink

---

there's a tear in my beer,
cause i'm crying for ya dear,
you are on my lonely mind!

bigjohn

In reply to:

---

there's a tear in my beer, cause i'm crying for ya dear, you are on my lonely mind!

---

Don't start THAT, John... I went to a country bar last night to see my fiancee's cousin sing. It takes a good number of beer to make country sound good to my ears. And even then I could only delve as deep as Charlie Daniels, I'd be long dead before I could sing along with Toby Keith or Faith Hill.

Any other kind of bar, where if you don't fit the demographic exactly, you don't really attract any attention - I can walk into a dance bar or what-have-you and not get a sideways glance.

Walking into a country bar in a leather biker jacket with a goatee, chunky silver jewelry and an understated belt buckle (one that you can't carve a turkey on) gets you one of three different looks. The middle-aged crowd looks at you like you're about to steal their wallets, the younger rhinestone-cowboys get this look on their face like they're suddenly embarrassed to be wearing shirts that make them look like fruit stripe gum and 10 gallon hats on 5 gallon heads (I'm sure some of those cowboy hats are sold like novelty giant sunglasses or big foam fingers and aren't actually meant to be worn as cowboy attire)...and most of the young women - well, they like the change of scenery.

Now I'm sure it's different in Texas, but on the Canadian prairies, where at 2am, everyone gets into their Windstar or Chevy Optra at the end of the night, it's a bit different.

Bren R.

In reply to:

---

Now I'm sure it's different in Texas

---

yes and no.. let me elaborate.

first off, you can walk into any country bar around here, and no one is really gonna care what you are wearing. and, contrary to popular belief, you wont find any horses tied up in the front or any out-houses in the back. a pick-up is the prefered mode of transportation around here. and while you may see a few "10 gallon hats", they are not the norm. and the guys you do see with them on, are probably real farmers, or ranchers, or cowboys, and a large brimmed hat serves a functional purpose for them in their daily activities. and no one would assume you were gonna steal their wallet. i know it sounds cliche, but most of us are very trusting people, and will receive strangers with open arms. plus, we have the assurance of knowing if you did try and steal our stuff, that there is 15 of my good friends sitting around me that will stop you. the rhinestone cowboys are a dying/dead breed out here. the real ones know who they are, and the fake ones know who they are, so they all just quit acting like something they aint. you get the occasional frat-boy who tries to fake it, but we still buy him a beer just for giving us a good laugh.

and here in texas, you wont hear toby keith or faith hill. we have our own music called 'Texas Country'. you are more likely to hear singers like pat green, robert earl keen, jack ingram, kelly willis, cory morrow, bleu edmundson, and phil pritchett. and bands like cross canadian ragweed, jason boland and the stragglers, west 84, reckless kelly, and cooder graw. most bars dont play that nashville crap, and we dont miss it.

and the "young women".. i have been ALL over, and there are more beautiful women in Texas than anywhere else i have ever been. you liable to end up with whiplash you hang out in a bar too long around here. and not only good-lookin, but they are fun. most are happier going swimming at the lake, then going to the mall. they would rather go varmint hunting, than sit at home and watch a rerun of friends on the TV. and they dont mind driving you home drunk from the bar on friday, as long as you do the same for them on saturday. its just a different type of woman, but you would have to make it down here to see what i mean.

now, i am telling you what its like in rural texas.. i am sure in dallas or houston, its totally different. but, we have a different pace out here than in the city. i wouldnt want it any other way.

bigjohn

So, bigjohn, where can a guy find work in San Angelo? How are housing prices? How far is the nearest airport? What's for dinner? Can you and Shannon put us up for a spell until we get our feet under us?

I loved that post. Thanks for sharing yourself with us.

BigJohn, thanks for the great post. I was a farmer on the prairies of western Minnesota before I moved to the Twin Cities and your post reminded me of home. For me home was epitomized on a trip back last fall. I walked into the bar - heard Jack Ingram on the jukebox and ordered up a 50 cent tap beer. The thought of raising my two 11 month old boys in the big city is a little daunting when I think back on growing up on our farm. Anyway, thanks for the post-it was a good one.

You are right about the women John. One of the purdiest girls I ever done seen was from Midland. She had the prettiest green eyes, a model face, and a killer body. Oh yeah and one of the hottest accents I've ever heard too. I've only been to El Paso (which probably isn't even real Texas) when I was like nine, but I need to visit them country girls once I graduate.

You've just perfectly described a little dive about 30 miles north of Nashville. About two years ago when I started dating my current girlfriend, she took me to a club in her town called Lucky's. My initial reaction was that I was in the WRONG bar, and I'd do well to leave with my teeth intact. Fast forward two years, and Lucky's is one of my favorite haunts. There's an absolutely killer band that plays every Saturday night, everyone's generally pretty friendly, and the girls are drop-dead gorgeous. There's lots of cowboy hats and Wrangler jeans, but these folks are the real deal and it's a pleasure to hang out there. Even better, no one really cares if a city boy like me drinks a beer with 'em. Hell, I finally got up the nerve to start dancing with everyone else, and I'm having a better time now than I ever did before.

i thought it might sound a little gitchy, but its all true!!

In reply to:

---

So, bigjohn, where can a guy find work in San Angelo? How are housing prices? How far is the nearest airport? What's for dinner? Can you and Shannon put us up for a spell until we get our feet under us?

---

yes, there is work, but not great pay.. but, cost of living is super cheap, so it all works out. a new 2000 sq ft house sells for about $80,000. we have an airport in san angelo, but it only flies to dallas and houston, thats it. shannon is making broiled talapia w/avocado and corn on the side for dinner tonight. SURE, come on down. we got plenty of room, and my mom across town(5 minute drive) has a spare room also.

jorge- there is a little cotton gin town about 20 miles out of city limits called eola. we go to a bar there called Wally World(the owners name is wally).. he serves .35 cent draft on wednesdays.. its worth the drive!!

player8- midland is about 2 hours west of here. its an oil town. and yes, purdy girls there too. and if you ask me, i would just assume let new mexico have el paso, and call it a day..

dmn23- luckys sounds pretty much like every bar around here. maybe i need to come hang out with you for a weekend!

bigjohn

In reply to:

---

10 gallon hats", they are not the norm. and the guys you do see with them on, are probably real farmers, or ranchers, or cowboys, and a large brimmed hat serves a functional purpose for them in their daily activities.

---

Strangely, farmers and ranchers here wear one of two hats... the winter toque (that's knit cap or beanie for the Americans) and the cap (young pups pay $50 for leather ones with their favorite toy of choice on them - older guys have a closet full of mesh-back ones they get free when the Round-Up guy comes by with a delivery).

To get this even further off topic. I grew up in the inner city... the place where even squirrels don't come by anymore and the trees are planted equidistantly by the city on the boulevard.

My first farm trip 9 years ago was an eye-opener, I'd never been that close to an animal that wasn't a pet... biggest vehicle I'd ever been in was a 3-ton GMC Topkick.

And now, I can push around anything with wheels there, I milk (at least the evening milkings - 4:30am is bedtime, not wake-up time) and I've welded at least one thing on every piece of equipment there.

They made a convert.
Bren R.

I would refer you all to John's BIO, in his profile. When I first read it, I was VERY impressed. It is a wise man who knows himself, and has a solid concept of what "enough" is. I doff my cowboy hat to you, John. (And yes, I do really have one. I use to be the soundman for a country rock band. )

Farms are great for fidgety folk like yourself. Just steer clear of the farmer's daughter and all will be fine. Oh wait, would that be Lisa?

One day, I will have land that warrants a tractor and a barn.

peter- i was just thinkin the exact same thing.. bren, with his obsessive/compulsive self, would have TONS of stuff to do on a farm. something is always broke or needs fixing. barn door this, tractor that... he might have to change up his work hours a bit, but i bet he would do just fine.

In reply to:

---

One day, I will have land that warrants a tractor and a barn

---

my father has 10 acres up in the hills where he grew up in arkansas.. he keeps telling me that, "someday, this will all be yours".. it just makes me laugh, cause i am thinkin, "great... so i can SELL IT!" i got no use for 10 acres in arkansas, when i plan on dying in Texas. so, let me know if you are interested!

bigjohn

No thanks. I could't trust a state whose name isn't pronounced like it's spelled.

In reply to:

---

Farms are great for fidgety folk like yourself. Just steer clear of the farmer's daughter and all will be fine. Oh wait, would that be Lisa?

---

Amen to that... that's why I take my week off in the summer out there... Lis wants me to go to Cancun or Hawaii or whatever. Me, sitting still on a beach for a week? Ain't gonna happen. And no, the farmer's daughters are her cousins, one's the cute country singer I went to see last night, the other one's too young.

In reply to:

---

with his obsessive/compulsive self, would have TONS of stuff to do on a farm. something is always broke or needs fixing. barn door this, tractor that... he might have to change up his work hours a bit, but i bet he would do just fine.

---

Not a chance. I didn't grow up with this stuff... I'd still have a lot of catching up to do. I don't have a feel for how sick a calf is to guess how much antibiotic to give it, or whether it's better to bale just a bit wet to get it off the fields or to take the chance of it getting rained on. I have a lot of respect for those guys - takes a lot to do what they do... and some day I have to bring them into my world where I don't feel out of my element.

The mechanical side of things though - gotta love equipment built with the farmers themselves being able to fix it in mind. A full set of pliers, sockets (impact and regular), combo wrenches, flare-nut/line wrenches, screwdrivers, a stick welder and 4 sizes of hammers, and there's nothing you can't do yourself!

Though I believe I told the story before... last "vacation" I was helping out with a cold barn addition. No one believed me that I thought there was a problem with the seal on the acetylene tank until a spark from my grinder set it on fire.

Was worth it to point out the flame to her uncle, hear him yell "MA CHRISTE!" (you work out the French translation!) and run out of the barn in rubber boots. 'Course, it looked a lot worse than it was, one of his sons ran over and snuffed it with a work glove... and he was standing closer to it than I was, but that memory of him running (I mentally add the Flintstones "doogita doogita" running sound) puts me in my happy place, evil bugger that I am.

Bren R.

In reply to:

---

doogita doogita

---

That may be the best transliteration of that sound effect I've ever seen.

Call me Mr. Onomatopoeia.

Bren R.

Bren
Can you do the Jetsons space car?

Funny you should mention. That's my non-verbal way of telling someone they're "hovering" around me while I'm working. I make that percolating Jetsons car hovering noise, then turn it into the sputtering driving sound as they leave.

My editor's taken to making the wookiee howl when minor things go wrong. Major things are usually met with an F-bomb, that's human nature... he's hard wired for that.

And lastly, there's an air makeup in the booth that makes a "whoop" sound (like a ~750ms frequency sweep) as it starts up. One of the shooters finally said "what the hell is that noise... is it time for the bonus round?" So we use a human-created version of that to signify any positive event. "Hey, I got a Playstation Portable!! *whooop*"

Grow old? Sure. Grow up? Never.

Bren R.

Has anyone else noticed that Bray's avatar changes frequently, but it's always "eyes"?

I'm sensing some sort of a fetish or something going on. I'll bet he only watches CBS, too.

In reply to:

---

but it's always "eyes"?

---

funny..? i thought it was an onion...

i guess he's got a thing for vegetables..

KEEP BRAY AWAY FROM THE CUCUMBERS!!!

bigjohn

In reply to:

---

i guess he's got a thing for vegetables..

KEEP BRAY AWAY FROM THE CUCUMBERS!!!

---

Considering his profession, I'd be more concerned about peppers and eggs! (sorry, kind of an inside joke)

Who was the moron that ASKED for more participation from the forum members in this thread ?

Its way too early for you guys to start picking on me.
Not to mention way too early for me to get peppers and eggs joke.
I havent had my first cup o joe yet.
And it IS an eye, Mr Port abuser.


Please note I went back to my original sig.

Jeeesh, Brady... it must be early there... I idn't think I'd have to explain it to you!

Eggs are very popular early assignments in photography as their form allows many compositional challenges, while their texture and shape allow for many lighting variables.

Peppers, too.... famously done by Edward Weston who shot many series of pepper photos over his lifetime:

easy now...

that pepper is giving bray a 'tingling' sensation.



bigjohn

Mark
Oh my gosh.
First cup o joe down and boy do I feel silly.
Not only silly, but thinking about those assignments makes me feel really old.
But not as old as Ray and Jack.

bigjohn
NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!

In reply to:

---

Who was the moron that ASKED for more participation from the forum members in this thread ?

---

What's the old adage? "Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it."

Oh my!!!

Am I the only one who think's that pepper is very....... attractive ?

UH.........NO.









Leave me alone about this bigjohn.

I knew I shouldn't have posted a photo!

Hey Mark,

Do you think Edward Weston found this pepper in Henry Moore's garden?? Ha, ha.

Regards,

In reply to:

---

Am I the only one who think's that pepper is very....... attractive

---

Yes! You pervert!

I had a big print of this bray original on one of my walls for a while, but evreyone kept finding something dirty to say about it, so I took it down.
Do ya'll see anything "dirty" about it?



Photobucket sure does change colors and contrast.

Dirty, stinkin' Mapplethorpe-influenced flower!

Ya think I could get a gov. grant?

Your work has to be A LOT more controversial than that to get the feds to pay for it!

I like the photo, BTW!

I hate to screw up this thread by talking about speakers again ... but last night, My son and I watched "Hunt for Red October", then my wife and I watched "The Forgotten" ... The Axioms are doing just fine. I think this weekend, we will try the SVS-PB-10 ISD in place of the Velodyne. As for sound quality, for $800 L-C-R, most impressive.

More later ... including the fact it looks as if I will be snagging some Paradigm towers soon ... AMIE, if you are lurking, perhaps it is time to get a pair of M-80's here for a shootout ...

In reply to:

---

The Axioms are doing just fine.

---

That's great, but tell us something we don't know.

PM ... That is what the "more later" will be ... and be nice, or I will introduce you to 6FU ... ask Jack about THIS guy ...

In reply to:

---

and be nice, or I will introduce you to 6FU ... ask Jack about THIS guy ...

---

He hides behind his anonymity sniping at everyone who displeases him. The master of innuendo. The prince of the personal insult. The king of the unsupported accusation. And, the absolute champion of denial. A person not worth wasting your time on, but impossible to ignore. May he be covered in daffodil pollen, and placed in the nearest apiary.

Holy Moly. He must be a serious class a a-hole to get you to say such things Jack (you are always very nice and considerate and polite even when the person tries to push your buttons). Is he on another forum?

jr

Jack, Excellent summary ... and VERY funny curse. And I REALLY would love to do a DBT between a pair of Paradigm Studio 60's/100 V.3, Axiom M-80's, and the RS-1K's (sans powered woofer, so really 850's) ... What I am hearing from the M22-ti's tells me this contest would be GOOD.

Amie ? You here ? ...

Yes, James, I'm ashamed to say I get carried away when it comes to this person. He can be found on many forums, under different names. He has been banned at most of them, only to return with a new pseudonym, but unfortunately with the same posting style. It is suspected that he is connected to the retail end of the audio business. Regardless, it is known he will relentlessly attack any, and all, who champion internet only companies (IOC), like Axiom. And when you defend one, he accuses YOU of (pardon my French, but I'm quoting) "pimping" for IOCs. He has little interest in logic, reason, accuracy or courtesy. He's one of those guys who will make no sense, and then unilaterally declare himself the winner of the argument. He likes to describe himself, when feeling challenged, as "your worse nightmare." He is, far and away, the most offensive poster I've ever come across, but the only "nightmare" is in his own mind.

My all time favorite, and the first of several bannings he received on HTF, stemmed from a claim about SVS. He supposedly had owned a PC-Ultra which he said he purchased used. The problem was, his "used PC-Ultra", according to him, was purchased about one full month BEFORE SVS actually started selling NEW PC-Ultras...

ya know...... i REALLY dont like you guys talkin about me like this..

this guy sounds like a real winner. hopefully, he stays away from here.. (fingers crossed)

bigjohn

I have no doubt. I was not trying to complain in anyway. You are always such a gentleman that for someone to get you to the point that you react that way, well he must really go far beyond the realm of super-duper-mondo-prince. And by prince I really mean pr1ck.

jr

Wow, I do the good thing and take a day off (and will over the week-end as well) to help a friend paint his freshly dry-walled, under construction home on Seneca Lake (one of the Finger Lakes) and what am I greeted with - FU6. That's just not right.

If anything, Jack's description was too charitable. This guy is a serious head case. All that is BAD about Al Gore's interenet.

In reply to:

---

Do you think Edward Weston found this pepper in Henry Moore's garden?? Ha, ha.

---

Interesting that you would mention Henry Moore, and then the next picture posted would be very Georgia O'Keefe inspired. Taking an art class in high school I sculpted a piece that was inspired by them both. I personally really like the end result I came up with, but most of my friends just look at it and ask, "what the hell is that?"

(btw...did anyone else get that Henry Moore reference?)

...and yes...that's one sexy bell pepper.

No...there's nothing dirty about it. It's really beautiful. Ms. O'Keefe had to put up with all that "dirty" talk as well. You're in good company.

The only inspiration behind it, was the fact that all we had in the studio was 2 week old flowers. I had to shoot them really tight to avoid the brown spots.
Its 1 in a series of 12 that I shot for my GFs birthday gift, when I was too broke to buy the real thing.

1/24th octave and 1/3rd octave in room pink noise graphs have been posted for the VP-150 on AVS. These graphs were taken at 60 degrees off axis ....

Measurements are 2 meter, 60 degrees off axis, in room.

1/24th octave graph

1/3rd octave graph

Unusually smooth off-axis response, especially for a horizontally configured center. Thanks, Craig.

You are welcome, of course ... and Kudos to Jack for the links !

Interesting, informative and correct measurements - thanks Craig. Makes one wonder out loud, as I am doing, how this kind of measurement would enable a speaker trigger any negative off-axis critcisms.

Always an interesting question ... When dealing with sound, people are often surprised at how "high" certain notes are ... most people will consider a 1000 Hz note to be "treble" ... and a 10,000 Hz note is REALLY high.

I could easily see how, at 4000 Hz, a room interaction combined with the inherent "peak" in the VP-150 could cause a feeling of "screechy treble" ...

Then there is the placebo effect ... we read something about, say, metal drivers ... next thing, we are HEARING what we read ... blind tests tend to fiz that ... more later, someone is ready to go to dinner ...

"Then there is the placebo effect ... we read something about, say, metal drivers ... next thing, we are HEARING what we read"

I would say that is a HUGE part of it.
We play head games with ourselves, like it or not.