Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91961 04/23/05 03:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
Hi everyone. I'm going to replace my direct radiating side surrounds with either the QS4 or QS8. I have Monitor Audio speakers for fronts and center and have read the QS4 or QS8 shuld be a good match. Can you guys recommend one ove rthe other and why?

Thanks
Legairre


Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91962 04/23/05 03:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,331
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,331
If I have my facts correct, they're going to sound pretty much the same, with the QS8s reaching a little lower in frequency response. The real decider should be how far away they are from your listening area. The QS8s will do better in larger rooms, because they will handle more power.


Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91963 04/23/05 08:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,210
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,210
In reply to:

Radden Home Theater




Hey I remember seeing this system somewhere...you post over on the Club Rotel site, don't you Legairre? Nice setup!

Not that much of a price difference between the 4s and 8s and with what I'm seeing with your system I'd almost go with the 8s myself. But that's me.


Rick
Our Room

smile
Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91964 04/23/05 10:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 243
local
Offline
local
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 243
QS8's. Cause once you get the QS4's hung up on your wall you will just start dreaming.. .hmmm. . . I wonder how the QS8's would sound up there. . .



Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91965 04/23/05 10:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,210
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,210
In reply to:

QS8's. Cause once you get the QS4's hung up on your wall you will just start dreaming.. .hmmm. . . I wonder how the QS8's would sound up there. . .




Uh huh, boy do I hate that feeling.


Rick
Our Room

smile
Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91966 04/24/05 12:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 285
local
Offline
local
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 285
You guys are a bad influence and sure to be costing me money cause that is exactly what I'm doing. I'm looking at my 2 week old QS4's going, Hmmm wonder if I should upgade them while the return shipping is free and the upgrade cost will never be cheaper?

I'm the innocent victim here! Wonder if my wife will buy it?

Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91967 04/24/05 12:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
Yep it's me. I really need to update my site. I sold the Rotel RSP-1066 pre amp and bought a Sherwood Newcastle P-965 and I gave the JBL speakers to my brother and replaced them with Monitor Audio speakers this week. I still have the Rotel RMB-1095 and RB-1050 amps so I'm still a Rotel guy. Looks like I'm a Rotel guy and soon to be an Axiom guy too, once I pick up the QS8.



Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91968 04/24/05 12:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
Man I agree you guys are killing me. Here I was thinking most people would say "save a few bucks and get the QS4", but nooooooo. You guys are all pushing the bigger is better thing on me. Now I'm not disagreeing with any of you. I hate saying "would have, could have, should have", so it's the QS8 for me.

Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91969 04/24/05 01:08 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 7
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 7
We have pretty much given up on telling anyone to save a few bucks and get the one which will be fine for them. Everyone who does that ends up upgrading BEFORE THE FIRST SPEAKERS EVEN COME IN so they don't even get a chance to listen to the VP100, QS4, M50, whatever.

Now we just tell people to buy the one they really want. Seems to work much better for everyone...

EDIT -- Seriously, the problem is that as far as we know nobody on the board has had a chance to compare QS4 and QS8 directly. Axiom says (and they have never steered us wrong yet) that the two speakers sound quite similar so QS4s are the way to go with a moderate sized room and QS8s are the way to go as your room gets larger. Roughly the same deal as VP100 vs. VP150.

There are a few anecdotal hints that the QS4 just might match the M3/M40/M50 family tonally a bit better while the QS8 is closer to M2/M22/M60/M80, but (a) nobody at Axiom has every said anything like that (it's just the way they pair up the speakers in their HT combos), (b) there are only a couple of data points, not enough to have any confidence in the conclusion, and (c) I repeat nobody here has heard the two side by side so we're all just guessing.

The most common pairing does seem to match the Epic pairings, ie QS8s with M22/M60/M80 and QS4s with M3/M40/M50. I run QS8s with M2s which does not follow the pattern but I figure Axiom just felt that nobody would be dumb enough to use $500 surrounds with $300 mains

Last edited by bridgman; 04/24/05 01:18 AM.

M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91970 04/24/05 01:36 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
Since you've just described my setup, I have to say, "Thbbt!"


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91971 04/24/05 02:00 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 7
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 7
Sounds pretty darned good, doesn't it ?


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91972 04/24/05 02:21 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
Damn skippy it does. The only problem is that I wish I had put the QS4s farther back on the side walls. But what's done is done, and I've already put enough screw holes in this place...


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91973 04/24/05 04:59 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
I find it hard to believe that so many could find a massive enough tonal difference b/w the QS4s and 8s to make it worth consideration.
Those who've heard the M50s and 60s have often declared the difference as subtle and those 2 speakers are far more different.

QS4s vs QS8s should come down to room size more than 'tone' differences when deciding. Larger speaker for larger rooms.

Incidentally, i do believe the QSx series will match well as surrounds with Monitor Audio mains. They've been setup with some Tannoy Saturns in a friend's HT and they work excellent. Tonal differences for surrounds is over exaggerated too often IMO.



"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91974 04/24/05 11:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034
Have to agree, I've used four different surround pairs, including my spare M3s, and other than the ones that were just "too small" they all seemed to have worked well. The "best" were a dumb ol' pair of HTIB 3-way speakers-with an 8" driver-that, while they looked pretty silly hanging on the wall, even in our 26X16 listening room, did an admiral job of, uh...doing it's job.

However-there are some QS8 bugs crawling around my house, and they're really startin' to "Bug Me"!!

They're not low frequency bugs, however. So the question is:

Is the low range output sufficient enough so that someone dosen't want to instantly add a small sub in the rear? (I know, set them to "small" and all that, but they just aren't-full-range! And I "think" I can hear bass below 80!!

(I also would rather use my rear M3s, with tubes, in a dedicated listening room-but that's another story)
Rich.

Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91975 04/24/05 01:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 7
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 7
Not sure I understand the question. If you set them to "small" all the bass will go to that big subwoofer in the front and (as always, in theory) you can't tell where in the room the bass is coming from anyways.

If you don't have a sub, the bass from the surrounds will go to your mains as long as your receiver supports it (HKs don't but everything else seems to).


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91976 04/24/05 06:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034
Hi John;

Yeah, the question was, basically, how "big" do the QS8s sound? I've had some speakers that had a low freq responce of 80 that, when, say an aircraft flew from front to back would give more of a "Hisssss" rather than a satisfying "Roaaaar"(know what I mean)when it flew on back. And this was with the sub taking from 80 on down. Bottom line: With an 80hz direct speaker out back, there is a hiss in the back, a rumble in the room with a component of rumble eminating from the general direction of the sub.

Sub bottom line: Do the QS8s hiss, or kinda roar?

By the way, the "hisser" was a single 5.25", bass reflex, while the QS8s of course are dual 5.25s acoustic suspension, so that alone may make a difference. Also, I am currently running my M3s out back with the cross set to 60hz and am getting good "Mini Roar" with no annoying bass from up front, but satisfying-though somewhat reduced rumble in the room.

Below the sub, bottom line: If the QS8s, crossed at 80, are a "kinda Roarer" Does anyone feel the need to add a sub in the back to augment the QS8s to make them "full roarers" when that plane flies past and the rumble component that happens to still be up front gets annoying?

Bedrock sub bottom line: Have to hear them in this room to actually find out!

Anyway, I'll leave the questions intact: Anyone feel the need to add a sub out back? And do the QS8s hiss or roar?

Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91977 04/24/05 07:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
I have two 250 watt 12" subs (one in each front corner) for the LFE and I also use two 150 watt 10" subs for my side surrounds. Each surround sub is wired in-line using the l/r inputs with a surround speaker then the surrounds are set to large. The surround subs crossover are set to 80hz and man when theres a plan flying by in the surounds you definately get a "roar". Without the surronds subs I get a hiss.

Here's a couple of pics:
http://pages.cthome.net/lradden/ht/images/P4240444.JPG
http://pages.cthome.net/lradden/ht/images/P4240442.JPG



Last edited by Legairre; 04/24/05 07:42 PM.
Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91978 04/24/05 08:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034
Oh Yeah!! That's the ticket, Legairre!!

AND the results I was looking for! Hiss: OUT Roar: IN!!

Judging from the size of your, dare I say "fabulous" room, I'd guess you'd go for the QS8s! Were you planning on using the subs with them as well, or taking a wait and see approach, I suppose.

So, I'm not the only one with "hisssuroundsindrome".
Thanks for the input!
Rich.

Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91979 04/24/05 10:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,444
Likes: 16
M
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
M
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,444
Likes: 16
I bet that room is gunna rock....

So what size room is considered big enough to warrant the use of 8's over 4's?? Would one want to use the same for surrounds and surround backs, or a set of each?


Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91980 04/24/05 11:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 427
devotee
Offline
devotee
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 427
I owned the QS4's with the hybrid tweeter and then upgraded to 3 QS8's when I got a 6.1 reciever. honestly, I cant really tell a difference but at least I don't feel any upgradeitis. Well, except for with my sub. I want a better sub.

Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91981 04/25/05 04:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 243
local
Offline
local
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 243
Hang on a tick. Something is not right if your surrounds cannot roar. I have one sub located in the front left of my HT room. I was watching "The Haunting" and there is definitely ROAR coming from the surrounds. It impressed me so much that I thought I had two subs right behind me. But that is not the truth. The truth is that any descent surrounds can roar if you have your sub crossed over low enough. If your crossover is set at 80 or below (80 being the top threshold of what a blind listener can tell direction on) your system will trick you every time.

Think about it. Say there is a surround effect being played on a movie track. A train passing from RR to LR. Almost certainly the sound of the train is going to be represented by many different frequencies throughout the normal range. So if your crossover is say set to 100hz you will have directional sound coming from the surrounds and the front soundstage. Whereas if you have the crossover set to 80hz or below. All the sound will appear to come from the surrounds. You will hear it all behind you even though some is actually coming from in front of you.

I used to think my sub needed to be set around 100 because it was such a good bass producer that I wanted it producing as much of the bass range as possible. But as soon as I did my testing and SPL levels and such, it was unquestionably better with the sub crossed over lower (60hz). I only wish that I could have tried 40hz but my receiver only goes down to 60hz.

There was a great article on this at Audioholics I believe. The title being something like "Turn that crossover setting down!!".
$.02

Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91982 04/25/05 02:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034
Hi ssutherland!
First of all, raise that$.02 up to at least $.09; The buck has been devalued, plus your opinion is worth more than that!

Your points are well taken! It appears you have full range speakers if you're using M22s in back. What Legairre and I were basically refering to was speakers with a lower limit of about 80hz. Babies' that small out back, in my room at least, "Hisss" when a plane flies at 'em!

Right now I'm using M3s in back with the crossover set to 60, and they aren't bad, but compared to my M50s up front, which are also crossed at 60, they seem a bit lacking in impact-they just "seem" a little smaller, not as much energy on the attack of the sound as the M50s up front.

Part of "MY" problem is my neighborhood! I have commented a few times in the past about the truce in the neighborhood keeping the dreded "Sub Wars" in check. I have to keep the frequencies that find it easy to walk thru walls to a minimum; which means the mains and surrounds have to carry more of the load than y'alls' do. So...

The thought of using a small sub(or two)in back makes a lot of sense. I can defeat the inverse square law by keeping the rear subs(s) close to the listener, plus add more to the attack, in the subs, by raising the crossover to 80 on the QS8s if I go that route-assuming the QS8s aren't described as "Hisssssers"

I certainly agree with you on turning down the crossover. When I had my(3)M3s up front, and the ability to cross only as low as 80, I used to have a problem of having a component of the male voices coming out of the sub!! Major Bummer!!! Now I have the M3 as center also crossed at 60 and I get a good full range output, with no voices thru the sub!

My new receiver crosses down to 60, but not to 40, either-I too, would like to try 40 just for fun-and fun is what it's all about!!!
Rich.

Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91983 04/25/05 02:32 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
All of this conversation assumes low frequency sounds are coded for surround channels. In a DD usage, why would any sound engineer code such LF sound for surround channels when they KNOW that surround speakers do not have the capability (for consumers at home or speakers in the theatre) and when they know that subwoofers included in these systems are used for this very purpose?

The LF sound is coded to the .1 channel according to the design idea of a 5.1 system.
The hiss you hear is likely b/c there is no sound there at all.
The surrounds should play the higher audible frequencies during a LF noise to trick the ear into thinking the LF noise is actually coming from the rear or the sides, but that's about it.
Surround speakers in HT are not designed as full range channels and neither is the centre.




"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91984 04/25/05 03:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 7
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 7
I forget the details, but isn't DTS different from DD in that regard ? I think I remember reading that all the DTS channels were full-range...


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91985 04/25/05 03:23 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
I did not recall but in this whitepaper it does state at one point 5 channels are full range discrete with the .1 being bandwidth limited.
In the whitepapers (pg 16) it refers to the DTS .1 channel as optional as well as main full range channels (w/o specifying) but also that the LFE channel is indepedent of all others.
However, full range does not mean that the surround channels have been encoded/mixed with full range sound. It simply states the DTS algorithm can do so.

Last edited by chesseroo; 04/25/05 03:33 PM.

"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91986 04/25/05 03:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034
Hi Chess;

I've noticed the effects you're talking about on a number of different DVDs, but thru experence, on other, newer DVDs, whille switching thru different rear channel speakers with different low freq responces, I've found that some "hiss" and others don't! Really!!

More cheap, smaller, more hiss!(No surprises there!)

I've also found a greater propencity to hiss on material recorded in Pro logic rather than DD, as though the rear channels were more full-range in DD.

While the center channel may not be designed as full range, in my house, at least on TV shows, espically, a big chunk of the lower sounds of male voices found their way to my sub, and wow! that was annoying! Crossing the center to 60 got rid of that nastiness. And while it may be "wishfull thinking" the center(M3) "seems" to be just a bit fuller as well, without disrupting dialog. Again, this effect is more pronounced on TV shows.

But yeah, on some material, when I had my old HTIB speakers with an 8" main driver, capable of fairly low frequencies(they would actually "rumble!" when used years ago as mains up front in those old pre-Axiom, pre sub, days, using an Aiwa HTIB with, Wow! Bass Boost!!) But using those old dears in back-though too large for the walls-produced a satisfying surround experience, and would actually "roar" when a plane flew over! So, at least on some material, there's gotta be something there!

But yup, there are tons of folks out there who have some very high powered and sophisticated systems that subscribe to the "Nothing below 80hz" concept. (No, guys, Not just Bose!) THX systems, of course!!

Is this hobby fun, or what!?
Rich.

Just spotted the other posts: Cool
Rich

Last edited by F107plus5; 04/25/05 03:48 PM.
Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91987 04/25/05 06:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
Ok guys I've been pretty absent from this so I'll try to explain why I use surround subs. First of all the DD and DTS spec does say that all five channels can carry a full range signal. Of course whether they do or not depends on the person mixing the sound.

About four years ago there was an article in Widescreen Review magazine that talked about bass in general, but it also talked about how there's bass "below" 50hz recorded into the surrounds that we're all sending to our LFE sub(s), by setting our surrounds to small. So I decided to get a couple of subs for the surrounds and see if this is true. In order for this to work properly you need to run a speaker wire from the amp or receiver to L/R input on the sub and then run a separate wire from sub L/R output to the surround speaker. Then set the surround speaker to large in your receiver or pre-amp. By sendig a full range signal to the sub you'll be able to use the subs crossover to control what stays in the sub and what goes to the surround speaker. Esentially what you're doing is turning a small surround speaker that only goes down to 75hz(like mine) into a full range speaker by adding the sub.

Movies like U571 for instance take on a whole new feeling. There's scenes with thunder while they are taking over the German sub and with surround subs the roar of the thunder comes from either the left or right side of the room and it's impressive. Without the surrounds subs it's barealy heard when redirecting the bass to the LFE subs by setting the surrounds to small. Having the surrounds subs makes a noticable difference.

Here's some links to six pages of movies that have bass below 50hz mixed into the surrounds. I have the rest of the article from Widescreen Review if anyone is interested. The article is from 2001 so there must be a LOT more movies by now with bass below 50hz mixed into the surrounds.

http://pages.cthome.net/lradden/ht/surroundbass1.jpg
http://pages.cthome.net/lradden/ht/surroundbass2.jpg
http://pages.cthome.net/lradden/ht/surroundbass3.jpg
http://pages.cthome.net/lradden/ht/surroundbass4.jpg
http://pages.cthome.net/lradden/ht/surroundbass5.jpg
http://pages.cthome.net/lradden/ht/surroundbass6.jpg

Just scroll over and check out the right most column of each page.

To enlarge the images just hover over the image and click the "sizing" block in the lower right corner.


Hey guys thanks for the nice comments on the room.
Legairre

Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91988 04/25/05 06:35 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
Legairre, the most logical reason for this effect you hear is simply b/c they are MORE speakers in the room.
You've added subs so yes, the LFE will sound more prominent. I've had 2 subs play in the front and also hooked one up to the rear, but in keeping with a single subwoofer config, there is no change in sound. Adding the second sub did add more "prominence" to certain movie scenes. Of that observation i agree, but again for an obvious reason.

As for directionality, well, that's how the surround sounds work to trick ones ear as to LFE location. You need a range of sound, even for explosions, that go well above the 80Hz point.
If you get the chance to hook up nothing but subs in your room, unhook everything else and then try to ascertain their positions during a low 40Hz note (this has to be an equivalent note to all channels though, not just playback of a movie with some encoded material in this range as the SPL may vary for each individual channel). Unless something is rattling close to a wall, it is unlikely your ears will be able to triangulate the noise. The wavelengths are simply too long.



"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91989 04/25/05 07:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
Chess, I've always valued your help so I'll try what you suggested. The only thing is the surrounds subs don't carry any LFE because they are not hooked up to the .1 LFE channel. They are hooked up in-line so they are carrying the bass that is mixed in to that surround channel. So the extra bass or sound I'm hearing is not from the LFE at all. By adding the surround subs I've only extented the range of the surrounds by letting the subs pick up where the surrounds leave off. It's really no different than having a speaker that goes down to, say 25zh as a surround and setting it to large.


Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91990 04/25/05 07:11 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
But if your speakers are set to small (and on some receivers if they're set to large) anything under your crossover is sent to the sub. So your sub isn't just playing the LFE channel.


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91991 04/25/05 07:25 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
Actually Legairre, in absence of the surround speaker with full range capability, the main LFE channel picks up the extra material encoded to the surrounds if they are set to 'small' in the receiver.
In effect, you ARE already hearing the surround LFE with only the .1 setup. I very much believe alot of ppl see their sub at the front of the room and think "hmm, shouldn't there be LFE sound in the rear too?" and then this idea gets started. But of course, the way the small speaker settings direct LFE, it should be a moot concept.
As before, location should not matter for LFE unless there is a room interaction or the LFE sound is mixed across more than just the single channel (highly likely for any explosion type sound) thus adding 2 subs to sound volume instead of just one.

In regards to the DPLII observation, i've found that the surrounds play rather oddly depending on the recording. When i was testing out sub vs sub, i unplugged all other speakers to do an A/B switching b/w sub units, however i wanted to use the same music passage for each unit. The problem was with only the LFE playing, i didn't know what part of the music i was hearing, so to compensate i plugged in a single surround channel so i could follow some of the vocals to the point i wanted to compare. I turned down the gain in the receiver on the surround channel quite low (like -10dB) so it would not overly interfere with my subwoofer listening. It was during this test that i realized the surround sound was literaly cutting in and out during the song. It was an odd effect to hear and not one that i expected.
Since then i've had some doubts about how effective the DPLII is for music. I've personally never found it to be particularly convincing and certainly no where near the quality of a DVDA mix as surround sounds go.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91992 04/25/05 07:26 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
Geez Ken, you beat me to the point and yours was about a half page smaller.
Perhaps my posts need to be shorter, more concise.

Nahhhhh



"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91993 04/25/05 07:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034
Alright Ken!!;

In one line you seem to have summed up the entire question-well, at least the one I had, anyway.

My problem was "that" part of the signal below 80hz that was sent to the sub along with the .1, but which was still audible and directional! (That and the fact that some rear channel speakers I've used have a tendency to "hisss" rather than "roar") Heck! for the price of two trips to Mc Donalds with the kids I can buy a couple of subs(NO, not Subways)but add the subs to my M3s(or QS8s)and have full range speakers out back and have the best of both worlds!!
They don't have to be real high quality subs, cause for surround, who cares-the important attack will still be produced by the M3s or QS8s.

Sounds like a real hoot to me!
Or am I missing something here, guys?
Rich.

Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91994 04/25/05 08:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,602
B
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
B
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,602
In reply to:

I can buy a couple of subs but add the subs to my M3s(or QS8s)and have full range speakers out back and have the best of both worlds!!

Sounds like a real hoot to me!
Or am I missing something here, guys?



The voice of reason?
A sober second thought?



Bren R.


Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91995 04/25/05 09:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034
Hmmmmmm...........

I see what you mean...
Rich.

Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91996 04/25/05 09:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
Correct, and on some receivers and pre-amps I've owned not only is everything below the crossover sent to the sub, but some of that information/sound is also played by the front speakers too if they are set to large. I'd rather have the information played where it was mixed instead of redirecting it to my mains and LFE subs.

Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91997 04/25/05 09:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
Chess, I've noticed the same effect of DPLIIx where if you go stand next to the surrounds on some music they do sound funny, but if you move away everything seems fine.

Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91998 04/25/05 09:45 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
Overall i cannot tell there is a cutting in and out of sound during music playback. It is quite soft but for anyone that hasn't done something like this, try unplugging all the speakers except one surround and try DPLII.




"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#91999 04/26/05 04:24 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
Legairre, your setup is certainly an interesting one, although I haven't experienced any problem with using a single sub to handle LFE and redirected lowest bass from all channels, including the surrounds. One point in your description is a bit unclear; you indicate that that there's a crossover to the surrounds, but if the internal sub(for the surround channel)crossover(actually just a low-pass filter)is the only mechanism being used then there is no crossover for the surrounds and they're being required to also carry the lowest bass.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#92000 04/26/05 04:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
Hi John. I'm using the subs high level inputs and outputs on the subs. I run the speaker wire from the amp directly to a subs high level input and then another wire from the subs high level output to the surround. By doing this I'm using the subs high pass filter. My subs have two crossover knobs on the back. One for a high pass filter for when you set them up the way I do and one for low pass so you run a sincle sub cable and let the pre-amp send a LFE signal. If using a single sub cable then the low pass would be used. In my setup the high pass filter is used.

Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#92001 04/26/05 04:45 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
Ah, that explains it, since most subs don't have a high pass filter on the output to the speakers, but simply feed the full range signal straight through. What are those subs which feed the surrounds?


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: QS4 or QS8 and why please
#92002 04/26/05 04:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
There just JBL PB10 subs. I must have a lot of luck with JBL subs, because my LFE subs are JBL PSWD112 and the surround subs are JBL PB10. Both these models were known for blowing their amps, but I've had them for years. Of course now you know all four subs will blow.

The way I have my surrounds and surround subs setup isn't really any different than running a full range speaker set to large for surrounds. In my case the sub just picks up where the surround leaves off. A full range speaker set to large would accomplish the same thing.

Last edited by Legairre; 04/26/05 05:09 AM.
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Link Copied to Clipboard

Need Help Graphic

Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics24,940
Posts442,457
Members15,616
Most Online2,082
Jan 22nd, 2020
Top Posters
Ken.C 18,044
pmbuko 16,441
SirQuack 13,840
CV 12,077
MarkSJohnson 11,458
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 397 guests, and 2 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newsletter Signup
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4