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#92173 - 04/25/05 09:14 PM TV puchasing advice needed!
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I am officially in the market for a new TV. The "percussive maintenance" (i.e. slapping the side/back) on my current 32" Mistubishi CRT is not working as often as it used to. From a cold start, the TV's vertical scan is messed up and I get either a very bright horizontal line in the middle or many finky wavy lines fluttering about the screen.

But this is good news, right? Time to upgrade!

I am self-imposing a limit to what I'm looking for: CRT only. I have neither the budget nor the space for other technologies. I also don't care about HDTV just yet, and I don't need anything bigger than I currently have. As to budget, that's flexible. What would you all recommend?
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#92174 - 04/25/05 10:32 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
md55 Offline
local

Registered: 05/20/03
Posts: 284
Loc: Nevada City, CA
Don't know if this is of interest to you but both Samsung and LG will have shallow depth 15" deep by 32" CRT televisons out this summer. I believe they will be HDTV for around $1000.
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#92175 - 04/25/05 11:08 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
oldskoolboarder Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
Is the limit based on budget or physical size?

Panny 42" EDTV plasma is now $1595. 4" deep and 40" wide.

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#92176 - 04/25/05 11:46 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Wegiz Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 156
Loc: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Crutchfield has quite a bit of info about TV's. I've never purchased anything from them, but it's a good site for research. http://www.crutchfield.com
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#92177 - 04/26/05 12:14 AM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Thanks for the responses so far. Here's some more info for you.

The TV needs to fit here -- this is an old picture, but it's the same TV and stand:


The stand is 2 feet deep. I am not going to replace it because it fits perfectly in the room and also functions as a speaker stand.

I don't need a larger TV because we sit between 8 and 10 feet from the screen (depending on where we put the couch).

I also don't want to spend a wad of cash. Since we're trying to save up for a house, that's the priority. (And yes, every $500 counts.)

That being said, I think I can safely cross HDTV-ready off my list of desired features. To take advantage of it would require more new equipment besides the TV, anyway.
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#92178 - 04/26/05 12:39 AM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I did some searching and came across this deal on the Toshiba 30HF84, HD-ready widescreen CRT. Knowing I can get this TV for less than $600 sets my budget limit right around there.
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#92179 - 04/26/05 12:43 AM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
+$100 freight.
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#92180 - 04/26/05 12:51 AM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
Hi Peter,

fwiw, it looks to me like your maximum dimentions are governed by the top of the stand, the bottom of the window and the footprint of the speakers. I'd cram as much picture tube as I possibly could into that space. You were helpful in providing a handy calculation to me some time ago about the area of a 4:3 set compared to a 16:9 set, and I can't help but think that the same kind of analysis will come into play for you. This IS America. Less is not more. More is more.

I have a lesser Toshiba TV in the bedroom and it has a great picture. Both my parents and Julie's parents have Toshiba tube TV's that have been trouble free.

Good luck with that. Oh, and pull those M22's out to the front edge of that bench, willya?
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#92181 - 04/26/05 01:16 AM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Tom, the "bench" has been relocated to another wall. No window to worry about. But still, I don't want more than 32"
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#92182 - 04/26/05 08:29 AM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Seabear Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 365
Loc: Charlottesville, Virginia
Peter,
I have that same set (well, mine is the 30HF83, so I'm guessing it is one year older) and I think it is a great TV. Terrific picture, and not a single problem in over a year.
And that price is $300 less than I paid out of the Crutchfield Scratch & dent section a year ago. Looks like a great deal.
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#92183 - 04/26/05 09:24 AM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Zarak Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/09/03
Posts: 1849
Loc: PA
Don't you have that nagging voice in your head saying what happens 3 years from now, when I am ready for HD, but have this relatively new TV? I guess since the one you found is HD ready you should alleviate that at least.

As for mine, I still have a 25" GE. I am looking at August of 2006 to get a new one at this point. That will be 10 years out of the current TV, prices should have dropped and quality continues to improve on LCD/DLP, and it will be just in time for football season next year! The 25" can move up to the bedroom to replace the 13" or whatever it is up there.

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#92184 - 04/26/05 10:17 AM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Seabear Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 365
Loc: Charlottesville, Virginia
Nah.
It is HDTV ready, and that will suffice.
The big motivatior for me was to get the 16/9 screen size, which I absolutely love.
Besides, I can always move it to the bedroom, and buy a new one!
Plus, I was completly boggled by the choices and technology I had to wade through when buying this one. The TV gig has just gotten insane. And I do not see putting myself through that again any time soon.
And yeah, on this front your money certainly buys WAY more than it did even a few years ago. I paid more, in real dollars, for my old 27" Proscan 10 years ago, than I did for this 16/9 Toshiba last year. Ridiculous.

_________________________
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#92185 - 04/26/05 11:18 AM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
bigwill2 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 586
I believe that is some good advice, Zarak. Buy a TV that will move to the bedroom well as it sounds like pmb will have a need for another larger TV in the future. It would probably be too small but I think I saw a 20" lcd for <$500 at Costco.
I also saw a Mits 65" HD CRT advertised for $1300 in the paper! I say screw the window and get that.

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#92186 - 04/26/05 02:50 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Capn_Pickard Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/09/04
Posts: 1056
Loc: Arlington, VA (NOVA)
Man, your options on tubes are nearly boundless. First of all, they can be had in the 32" 4:3, non hi-def style by the truckload at bargain bin prices. Second, because the tube technology is well established an a mature technology, you have a little more flexibility with regard to which manufacturer to choose from. Lastly, since the advancements in technology have been in realms other than tubes as of late, you can buy a slightly older set and not worry about the technological leap-frogging that is goign on in the DLP, LCD, Plasma world.

That said, I couldn't be happier with my Sony Wega. I have the 27" tube, and the pictureis absolutely stunning, especially with DVD content. The de-interlacer is pretty tremendous and it has a 16:9 "squeeze" function to get every last pixel of data from your dvd's. I bet if you looked, you could find a bargain on one of these.

In the alternative, check out this site, out of Virginia. They sell a lot of Smasung tubes that have been refurbished. I've bought two sets from these guys, and have been very happy with both the quality of the product and their customer service.

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#92187 - 04/26/05 03:58 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
AshBoomstick Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 540
Loc: Richmond, VA
In reply to:

In the alternative, check out this site, out of Virginia.


hmm, that site looks like it got good prices on plasmas too. i'll have to keep that in mind for X-mas! i can't tell if they have an actual store, or if they're only internet though. wouldn't be far of a drive from Richmond to check out some of these in person.
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#92188 - 04/26/05 04:19 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
TNTguy Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 325
Loc: Utah
Peter, I was about to suggest looking at the Toshiba line before you posted the link. I have a Sony and love it but Toshiba's have the same quality and are a bit less expensive. You really should get an HD set. There is a pretty big difference between 480i and 480p. DVDs look so much better on an HD set than they do on an analog set.

I personally don't have a preference on the 4:3 vs. 16:9. I watch alot of full screen DVDs (tv shows). I have a 36" 4:3 but it is the equivalent of of 33" 16:9. And a 32" 4:3 would be roughly the size of a 29" 16:9 screen. The big negative in my mind with the 4:3 sets is their additional weight. The 4:3 sets are bigger than their 16:9 equivalent counterparts.

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#92189 - 04/26/05 04:43 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Ray3 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2842
Loc: Rochester, NY
Pete,

VERY disappointing - where is your sense of debt and upgradeitis??? This will mean demerits on your Man Card! I'll bet you even stop and ask for directions!!!!

On to the serious stuff. There is a local Stereo Shop in town and "I've got a guy" there. We have evolved over the years to having a beer together occaisionally. He knows his stuff and serves it in easy to understand chunks.

His input on CRT TVs is that they provide the best pictures - period. Start with Sony, next is Toshiba and then comes Sony, Sony and Sony. Best bang for PQ and reliability. If you are taking HDTV off the table and looking at 30" - 32", you should be able to find an excellent TV at a good price. I'd urge you to stay local if possible (and get a 16:9), just to save shipping and because it's easy to tweak a local guy's nose if required.

BTW - DVDs will look great on the CRT.

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#92190 - 04/26/05 05:27 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Pmbuko,

Like Cap'n Pickard says, if you don't need HDTV, then it's bargains galore.

In CRT direct-view, Sony had the edge for many years, through the 70s and '80s, but eventually Toshiba and Panasonic equaled Sony picture quality, and for less money as often as not. There is also the oft-overlooked Hitachi, which have been excellent in the past and are certainly the equal of Sony in CRT non-HD.

Really crummy CRT sets to avoid include Sanyo, Sharp, RCA and Philips, the latter two being particularly unreliable in addition to having mediocre picture quality.

JVC and Samsung fall somewhere in the middle.

Regards,
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#92191 - 04/26/05 05:44 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10900
Loc: Central NH
In reply to:

His input on CRT TVs is that they provide the best pictures - period.




Absolutely. No "native resolution" issues with the high-def standards and they have (by far) the best shadow detail. Throw in the lack of contouring, etc that you often find in panels of any type, and for picture quality and price, it's a no-brainer.

I would have bought a CRT but my living room is a small room on the second floor. I really didn't want to deal with the weight up the stairs and the depth of the tube once it got there. Besides, I was looking for something larger than the 32" I had, and moving to a 36" would have been somewhat less than "wowing".

Sony's XBR is my choice when money is no object; otherwise, I like Toshibas as well as Sony's lesser lines.
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#92192 - 04/26/05 06:11 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Happy Birthday snakeyes Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/13/04
Posts: 828
Loc: Newburgh, NY
PM i had a thosiba 32 crt which i loved just got 52mh84 52 inch dlp which is treating me good so far. i would just worry that goinng from 32" 4:3 to 30" 16:9 will seem smaller to you. unless you watch 80% dvd then it wont be that big of a deal but i think widescreen at that size is not worth it. ymmv imho just my 2 cents all that.
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#92193 - 04/26/05 06:47 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10900
Loc: Central NH
Regarding the size differences between different TVs, the calculator on this page is very handy!
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#92194 - 04/26/05 06:52 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I've started looking at craigslist as well. There are quite a few Sony TVs available. I'm hoping this one will still be available friday to take a look at and possibly buy.
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#92195 - 04/26/05 06:54 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
Now that's a good buy, nice TV!
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Our Room

smile

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#92196 - 04/26/05 08:31 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
snippy Offline
devotee

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 427
Loc: San Luis Obispo, CA
Why would you need new equipment if you got an HDTV? all you need is a set of component cables for your DVD player, which set you back maybe $10. Also, if you currently subscribe to Cable, they can install a HD cable box in your system in about 5 minutes, they even supply the component cables for you.
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#92197 - 04/26/05 09:12 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
richeydog Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 1201
Loc: Fresno, CA
Snipps right. The hd cable box is free. Then add $5 dollars a month for hdtv programming. Its quite nice actually. Watched the Giants lose last night in hi-def...
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#92198 - 04/26/05 09:31 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I have DirecTV. An HD DirecTivo would set me back quite a bit.
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#92199 - 04/26/05 11:09 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Peter, my first suggestion is to try slapping simultaneously on opposite sides with both hands. This works almost every time for me on my DuMont. If even that doesn't fix it, then get something good but basic such as this and invest for that house.
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#92200 - 04/26/05 11:49 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Thanks for the on-target advice, John. Any investment tips? We'll soon have 10k saved toward a home (which, in California dollars is only 1.5% of a home).
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#92201 - 04/27/05 12:04 AM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
If you're lucky....

Same deal here.
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#92202 - 04/27/05 01:22 AM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Peter, of course I do, but if this is something that's going to take place within 3-4 years the conventional wisdom is that the money for the down payment should be kept in something that has little or no price fluctuation, such as a money market fund or a short-term bond fund. A common suggestion is not to put money into the market unless there's at least a five year time span available. That being said, personally I've never followed that precaution and have always been essentially 100% in the market.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#92203 - 04/28/05 03:36 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Capn_Pickard Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/09/04
Posts: 1056
Loc: Arlington, VA (NOVA)
Ash - regarding "7e4" in Virginia.

The place is within spitting distance of Dulles Airport. It has a "store" where they have their sets set up for viewing, etc. The store is really just a warehouse, with a small showroom full of TVs and electronics. You are supposed to call ahead so that they can pull the box ahead of time.


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#92204 - 04/28/05 07:35 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
freesey Offline
local

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 248
Loc: London, Ontario
LOL man that is EXACTLY what I used to have to do on my parents old 20" Zenith tuber My dad would go up to it and start fiddling with the controls trying to fix it, and then I just smacked it on the side and the picture restored itself lol - I was 9 at the time heheh
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#92205 - 04/29/05 04:06 AM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
OK, the choice has now come down to two used (in good condition) Sonys:

KV-32FV26
KV-32FS10

The main differences between the two are dual tuners, PIP, and 16:9 enhanced mode in the latter. As far as I can tell, the screen is the same. So the question is, since I don't care about dual tuners or PIP, is the 16:9 mode worth it?

I know what it does and it shoudl theoretically look better, but does it really?

I ask because the better TV will cost me about $100 more unless I can haggle the seller down.
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#92206 - 04/29/05 04:16 AM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
TNTguy Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 325
Loc: Utah
Yes the 16x9 enhanced is worth it if you watch anamorphic widescreen material. It really does look better.



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#92207 - 04/29/05 04:47 AM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I guess that settles it then. Now I just need to pray it doesn't get sold before I can go look at it tomorrow.
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#92208 - 04/29/05 07:51 AM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Seabear Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 365
Loc: Charlottesville, Virginia
Ditto on the vote for 16:9.
My Toshiba has a terrific method of expanding regular 2:3 signals into this format, and I'm betting that the Sony would be just as good.
And as for DVDs, I would never go back to a standard screen.
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#92209 - 04/29/05 09:06 AM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
In reply to:

unless I can haggle the seller down



i ALWAYS haggle....

i figure ya gotta try. never hurts, right? all they can say is NO, and you are still in the same place as you started. i think the only thing i pay sticker price for is groceries..

bigjohn
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#92210 - 04/29/05 01:57 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
AshBoomstick Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 540
Loc: Richmond, VA
it seems like this is the only area of the world where it's either rare, or frowned upon, to haggle. hell, over in Italy and the Middle East (specifically Bahrain) they're almost offended if you don't haggle. they wont let you buy whatever it is your getting without having you go through a couple of rounds of the game! i did save about $400 on a pearl necklace for my wife over there, so it definitely helps to try. alright somebody go ahead and make the joke, i know you wanna!
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#92211 - 04/29/05 02:13 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
In reply to:

alright somebody go ahead and make the joke, i know you wanna



i would have given her a pearl neckalce for FREE!!!

thank you, thank you.. i will be here all week..

i am a haggle freak.. my wife jokes that "i never pay full price for anything". i always seem to get the best deal or bargain possible. when we go to buy things, she just tells me what she wants, and i go get the best deal possible. to me, there is NO shame in trying.. and i agree with you, it is somewhat frowned upon. but at the same time, if i go into a shop, and they tell me the prices are solid, wont change, then i dont shop there.. to me, its just part of the buying process, and i wouldnt have it any other way.

bigjohn
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EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??

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#92212 - 04/29/05 02:18 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Amie Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 1620
I have to laugh - we were at a place that salvages architectural details from houses that are being torn down - you know the kind I mean, where just walking through the door guarantees you'll bump into something and step on something else. Anyway, Ian sees something he likes and it takes nearly 25 minutes to complete the transaction, all because the people were waiting for him to haggle and Ian just wanted to buy and go. They kept hemming and hawing and he just kept saying 'fine, fine'. But I honestly thought we were going to have to leave without it! I ended up waiting it out in the car with a girlfriend - it was too painful to watch! Next time, we'll take BigJohn with us.
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Axiom Audio

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#92213 - 04/29/05 02:33 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4829
Loc: western canada
In reply to:

Anyway, Ian sees something he likes



Was it a garden gnome?
Cuz everyone loves gardon gnomes.
I can see Ian being a collector.


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#92214 - 04/29/05 02:39 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Amie Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 1620
Actually they were knobs, but in light of the tone of the rest of the thread I thought the less said the better. At least, until you weighed in, Chess! LOL.
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Axiom Audio

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#92215 - 04/29/05 02:40 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Back to the TV topic... the seller of the better TV called me this morning and that TV is mine! Yay! Now I need bigjohn to give me a pep talk so I can drop the price from $400. The good news is that price includes the matching stand, which I don't need. I told the seller this and he said "then I guess I'll let you talk me down."

That's an explicit invitation to haggle if I ever heard one.
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#92216 - 04/29/05 02:41 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
knobs, pearl necklaces ... is there something in the air today?
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#92217 - 04/29/05 02:59 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
man, thats an open door for haggling. if you dont get that TV out the door for less than at least $375, then you have failed Haggling 101..

you dont wanna start too low and insult the guy.. but, you should make it clear that the stand is of no use to you.. even try and mention it twice, use the old double reverse guilt trip. see, he wants to get rid of the TV, and he already feels the cash in his pocket cause you have drove all the way to his house to pick it up. (unless you do it over the phone, then he gets the advantage).. if possible, always haggle in person. you will get better results. then, he sure dont want you to leave with the money, and he still has the TV, and he dont wanna have to go thru the trouble of having more people over to look at it, and make calls and try and sell it, etc.. he wants it out the door, and he WILL take a cut if he has to. i would start with offering $350, and make sure and mention again when you make the offer, that you just dont have any use for the stand. he may counter offer, but i wouldnt be surprised if he just says ok.. if he does counter, then i am positive he will say $375, shake his hand, load it up, give him the money, and be gone!!

i really think $375 is VERY attainable. but, shoot for $350 first. like i say, never hurts to ask.. and he wants to get rid of the thing, or he wouldnt have you over in the first place.

YOU CAN DO THIS PETER.. YOU HAVE THE POWER!!!!

then take the extra cash you saved, put some gas in the car, and go buy some GOOD beer, and pop-a-top for me!!

bigjohn
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#92218 - 04/29/05 03:16 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
In reply to:

Anyway, Ian sees something he likes and it takes nearly 25 minutes to complete the transaction, all because the people were waiting for him to haggle and Ian just wanted to buy and go.


How much did he end up paying for the 50ft concrete gargoyle? Oops, I see there's another page of replies, I fear I'm too late for the joke!

Bren R.

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#92219 - 04/29/05 03:32 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
AshBoomstick Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 540
Loc: Richmond, VA
oh yeah, i would totally get him to go lower! the thing only thing is, the stand is worthless to you, but the hassle of him trying to find a buyer of the stand without an accompanying TV might make him go a little higher. or you could just make him an offer he can't refuse... its hard to take money with broken fingers

p.s.- i soooooooo want one of those garden gnomes for the flower bed in front of the house!!! you never know when zombies might come around. (somewhat obscure movie reference)
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#92220 - 04/29/05 03:40 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Happy Birthday snakeyes Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/13/04
Posts: 828
Loc: Newburgh, NY
ya know i have a computer store and now we are mostly service but 7years ago when we started we used to sell a ton of parts we were like a coomputer show that was open 7 days a week. and i hated hagglers if you tried to haggle not only would i not come down but i would not give you deal on anything. and people would always ask whats the price if i bought 2. wow 2 pieces your gonna buy 2 whole pices from me. the difference being my mark up was anywhere $2 to $10 and i think audio is better than that. just my 2 cents.
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#92221 - 04/29/05 04:24 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
well, maybe i should set some 'parameters' on my haggling.

if you are buying anything from an individual(garage sale, paper ad, 'for sale' sign in yard), then EVERYTHING is haggleable.

i think labor/services are haggleable. shop charges you $60 an hour labor, and they round up.. i dont think asking for a cut, or maybe a free car wash is out of the question.

large retail stores are open game, but only on larger items.. its OK to ask for $50 bucks off of a $500 washer. but its not OK ask for $2 off a $20 towel rack.

i think the BEST haggling is with self-owned, small business owners. they want you to come back, and they want you to tell your friends. so they are much more willing to make deals. GREAT example.. the small mom&pops electrical store where i got my banana plugs from.. i bought 10 plugs, at $2.19 each. about $24 total with tax. but i still needed the tiny flat-head screwdriver to get to the screws. he had one for $3.49 on the counter, and all i had was $25 cash.. he threw the screw driver in the bag, i gave him the $25, and i walked out the door. so, basically, i saved about $3.00 bucks.. made me happy, he lost $3 bucks,, but, not really, cause he had already marked up the prices. plus, now that i am doing an HT for my buddy, we will go back and get another $25 worth of equip. thats how it works..

snake- if you wouldnt 'deal' with me, then i wouldnt come to your store.. simple as that. i will take my business to someone that will. there is no hatred or resentement involved, i am just looking out for me.

bigjohn
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#92222 - 04/29/05 04:38 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Happy Birthday snakeyes Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/13/04
Posts: 828
Loc: Newburgh, NY
oh i dont get upset i just say thats my price. im not out to rape anyone my price structure is setup so i can make a living not a million dollars. especially when i came to computer parts there was no loyalty. im not saying i would not give a break to someone who had come back afew times but not up front. people would always say can you match a computer show price (which was only $2-$5 cheaper) and i would say ok pay me $6 to walk in my door and i will give you $4 off that harddrive. or come talk to me for an hour waste my time asking all these questions then go on the internet and buy it for $5 cheaper.im not mad at you John im just speaking from experience from the other side.
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#92223 - 04/29/05 04:41 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
Me, I would get pissed if someone tried to haggle with me on my labor costs. It says on all the paperwork what my hourly rate is, what the minimum time is, and what the interval is. If you can't pay that, don't ask me to do the work. The worst is when I ask for a check or credit card AFTER having done the work, and the person tries to get terms. Um... you have to fill in an application for that WITH references...
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#92224 - 04/29/05 04:44 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Happy Birthday snakeyes Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/13/04
Posts: 828
Loc: Newburgh, NY
yeah ken you are preaching to the choir (spelling?). that is the same customer that wants you to drop everyting to come over but wants to wait 30days to pay you.
_________________________
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#92225 - 04/29/05 04:46 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
James_T Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/03/04
Posts: 715
Loc: Seattle WA
Dead Alive reference?

"Your mother ate my dog!"
"Not all of it."

jr
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#92226 - 04/29/05 04:47 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
Hey, if they've got terms, they can wait 30 days. But they're gonna pay extra for that emergency service. Surprise! Now it's not an emergency, is it?
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#92227 - 04/29/05 04:50 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Happy Birthday snakeyes Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/13/04
Posts: 828
Loc: Newburgh, NY
lol at this point the companies go out of business or clame bankrupcy i try to avoid terms unless its the only way i can get the business.
also we charge extra for data backup and when i ask do you need any data backed up they reply yes i would like this and that i tell them its x amount short pause "oh the data is not that important" lol
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#92228 - 04/29/05 04:53 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
Heh. We don't charge for data backup, but the time it takes adds in...

I don't handle the terms side of things, but we do have a fairly aggressive pair of people who do... and we do credit checks, require references, etc, the whole nine yards.
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I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#92229 - 04/29/05 05:03 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
TNTguy Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 325
Loc: Utah
I could probably benefit from the Haggling 101 course. Bigjohn the professor? I would learn much but I do worry about the laboratory section of the course. You know, like the ports on the speakers and bigjohn's instructions.....

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#92230 - 04/29/05 05:19 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
no, no.. i wasnt implying that you were "mad" at me.. not at all.. i was saying, that ME as a consumer/purchaser, i wouldnt have any bad feelings or ill-will toward that store owner for not dealing with me. i just simply wouldnt come back.. once again, i am having translation problems

i dont disagree with you or ken's thought process, its just diffeent than how i would do it. you run your businesses, or do your jobs the way YOU see fit. that doenst make either of use right or wrong, it just means we probably have different business strategies.. and what ways do you measure if the strategies are working? profit? customer satisfaction? repeat business? who knows... but i DO know, that here in West Texas, if you aint willing to wheel and deal, then you wont be in business very long. its just a fact.

ken- i dont haggle labor without asking initial price first. example- plumber comes to do a job, quotes me $500 bucks, but adds "it might cost more if it takes me longer, or if we run into any complications".. i ask "how long should it take?" he says, "about 5 hours". so 2 days later he does the job, he was at my house for 6 hours, and hands me the bill for $600. i ask where the extra $100 came from, he says "it took longer than we thought".. so i said it took ONE hour more than you thought, and your labor is $55 bucks an hour.. he says, "OK", and cuts me a new receipt for $550. this is a true story...

if i would have never asked about the extra $100, he would have taken it and run. althought i was still angry it was $50 more than the initial estimate, i still paid less than the $600 he had asked for. thats what i mean on labor.

i think there are SOOO many different scenarios to haggling, i think i could write a book. i am not try to come off as some cheap ole basterd, cause i aint.. i just try and make my dollar stretch as far as it can. i dont mind paying good money for good stuff.. i bought axioms, didnt i?

bigjohn
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EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??

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#92231 - 04/29/05 05:36 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Amie Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 1620
But Axiom's are already a steal!

Hey, is Craigsub going to weigh in on this one? I bet he'd have some interesting insight.

During the annual girls' trip to Montreal last fall, we went to the garment district to sample sales (and if you're like Ian, you just heard 'blah blah blah blah blah') - no prices on anything. Swear to you, the vendor looked at you and gave you a price. The next person may get a totally different price. It was interesting to become a fly on a wall and try to 'see' what she could 'see' that would get her the different prices. Purse quality? Haircut? How tightly I was gripping the pigskin suede pants?
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Axiom Audio

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#92232 - 04/29/05 06:18 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
Yeah, that example is quite reasonable, BigJohn. The way I do it, I write down my start time, then write down my finish time, round to the most favorable 15 minutes for my company, and charge them based on the hourly rate multiplied times the amount of time I spent. If they were directly quoted a time and I went over, then we can talk. Usually I end up going over because of something the customer (or more likely the customer's employees) did, but if I went over because of my own fault, they don't get charged for that time. Of course, I try my best to not quote times (with computers, god only knows what's going to happen).

Your plumber sounds like a jerk.
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#92233 - 04/29/05 06:42 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Zarak Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/09/03
Posts: 1849
Loc: PA
Wow Amie...I actually heard Blah, Blah, Blah in my head when I glazed over that part!

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#92234 - 04/29/05 06:42 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Happy Birthday snakeyes Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/13/04
Posts: 828
Loc: Newburgh, NY
i understand what your saying john i usually round down on labor im to nice in that respect. so if i move to texas and want to open a store i will just mark everything up 10% more then say man you are tough customer i will give you 5% off. lol seriuosly john maybe in your area people being nicer and all maybe haggling comes off as being more neighborly. here it comes off as someone trying to screw me. also being in busines for myself 7 years and being to nice originally has made me bitter. anyway peter how did you make out with the tv?

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Leave the gun, Take the canolis.

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#92235 - 04/29/05 07:44 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5214
Loc: Los Angeles
When I had my comic book business back in New England I always haggled. Often if I got a guy asking if I could take for example $18 for a book I marked $20. It wouldn't be out of the ordinary for me to reply..."No, but I'll gladly take $15.".

My business lived or died on repeat customers though...and I had a major competitor very, very near me. I had to go above and beyond to grab his customers. Over the course of approx. 3 years my business grew at least 400%. People kept coming back. It's all about customer service. With the advent of e-business customer service has really gone out the window. I'm pretty sure it'll make a comeback. The honeymoon of cheap prices over the internet will soon be over. The prices will still be cheap, but when you've got a dozen different choices on the web, rather than one or two, it'll be the guy with the terrific customer service that wins out. (Axiom seems to understand this very well.)

Just an example in my case: A friend of my little brother's mother heard I bought and sold comic books. She had a box full from when she was little and wanted me to take a look at them. I went over and she had a nice collection of 1950's superhero and western comics. Certainly valued much more than I could ever hope to pay her...and I told her so. What I did do was offer to sell them for her. I'd take a commission, she'd get the rest. It would take a bit longer, but she'd end up with much more money. She agreed and I took the books. She told me another man had stopped by to see them and offered her $100 for the entire box. I knew exactly who it was that offered her that (yep...same guy as above).

Within two months I sold nearly the entire collection. She ended up with over $1500, I had a nice commission, and I also gained numerous new customers because I had some vintage books for sale. (My usual stock was 1980's books).

When I decided to move to Califorinia that competitor of mine was more than glad to buy me out.

As much as I enjoy my job now, and I certainly make more money, there's never been a better job than having my own biz. I wouldn't mind giving it another shot someday.

ps - Congrats on the new tv Peter!


_________________________
"A nation cannot prosper long, when it favors only the prosperous." -President Barack Obama

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#92236 - 04/29/05 07:47 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
My Dad has a huge collection of DC comics from the mid 60s to early 70s (at least 4 large boxes). I, of course, read all of them (which makes my comic knowledge really odd, sometimes). They're certainly not in the best condition. He said that at one point, someone said that he would pay cover price for them. Needless to say, Dad didn't sell.
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I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#92237 - 04/29/05 08:28 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
Amie, It sounds like Ian and I have the same shopping habits. My wife HATES to shop with me. Well, there are a couple stores which have a men's lounge. There is something about free drinks and a pool table that take the edge off the damage she is doing ...

As far as people haggling with me (or my people), yes, it can be interesting. Definitely worth yacking about over beers sometime.


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#92238 - 04/29/05 10:27 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
Ray3 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2842
Loc: Rochester, NY
Pete - congrats on the TV. It's a great choice.

Haggling is a lost art in North America. It's interesting what 2 questions can do somewhere during the process.

At the beginning, - "Hmmm, what would you take for it?"

Towards the end - "Can you do any better?".

I've spent most of the last 20 years negotiating contracts. Knowing that the other side 1) is usually uncomfortable and 2) feels like they have the weaker hand usually gives you the advantage. Always trying to attain a win-win is a must.

The rest of the world takes the whole thing much more seriously. When the U.S. was setting up to negotiate our way out of Vietnam, we made hotel reservations in Paris for 3 months. North Vietnam made their reservations for 3 YEARS. Says alot about the value of patience in a negotiation.

Anyhow, enjoy the Sony Pete!

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#92239 - 04/30/05 12:02 AM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
In what had to have been the quickest round trip from my house to the middle of San Francisco during rush hour ever accomplished -- just under 1.5 hours -- I acquired the TV and brought it home for $375, plus $3 bridge toll, plus 28 miles worth gas.

I've got it hooked up and it looks fantastic. My wife noticed that it was silver and not black like the old one (thus more color mismatches in the room), a little bigger than the old one, and that she would have gone for a smaller TV (and paid less) had she been in on the decision process. Then she clarified that she was not mad in any way, what's done is done, and that she'll definitely enjoy a nicer TV that works.

Mission accomplished.
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#92240 - 04/30/05 12:16 AM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
littleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 1235
Loc: Moorhead, Minnesota/US
Peter,

It sounds like you lucked out. My Mrs. said I have to wait until Father's Day to replace the 32" mag. I protested that Father's Day doesn't mean anything and said something about it being a bogus holiday. . .but, none of that mattered in the end. I'll probably replace that old TV about December 23rd, as an early Xmas present to myself.

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#92241 - 05/01/05 12:55 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
cool deal peter!! glad it worked out.

should we ask for pics of the new TV with HT, or are you just taking your time???

bigjohn
_________________________
EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??

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#92242 - 05/01/05 07:17 PM Re: TV puchasing advice needed!
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I've been meaning to take an updated pic. It'll happen soon.
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