Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions blown tweeter or just need breaking in?

Dear all,

I finally received my M22ti yesterday. The midrange is everything the critics described. I do have a problem though...

The high seems somewhat distorted. When I listen to modern/rock /alternative music, there is somewhat of a noise near the higher frequencies. I really doubt that the tweeters were already blown considering they're less than a few hours old, and I have not played them at anything above a moderate level.

To test this further, I played some of the classical music I have (mostly violin concertos) to test the high frequencies. However, the violin doesn't seem too distorted.

So... Could this just be the speakers still needing breaking in? or do I have defective/blown tweeters? I guess another possibility is that I'm not used to the distorted guitar sound that are present in those rock CDs?

I guess one of the questions is- how do you tell when the tweeters are blown?

jefft,

Since you do not detect the particular distortion with the classical music, I doubt that your tweeters are defective. Most likely, the modern/rock/alternative CDs you listened to are recorded "hot," with intentionally boosted mid-highs and highs. The M22's are highly accurate speakers, which means that they depict a bad or tweaked recording as such.

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Could this just be the speakers still needing breaking in? or do I have defective/blown tweeters? I guess another possibility is that I'm not used to the distorted guitar sound that are present in those rock CDs?

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The loudspeakers (or any other audio components) do not need a break-in -- their response does not detectably change over time. What could change or be "broken-in" is, if any, the psycho-auditory processing in our own brain, as you have eluded. Equipment break-in is a wide-spread myth among those "audiophile" folks, period.

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I guess one of the questions is- how do you tell when the tweeters are blown?

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In this case, I would first check, using a good pair of headphones, the CDs with which you felt distortion. If the recordings sound the same (still "distorted") on headphones, then you can acquit the Axioms.

Cheers!

My first thought is the same as sushi's. I would guess you're finally hearing all the horrible crap in "pop" recording due to finally owning an accurate pair of speakers. You can get a little resistor from Axiom that clips into the tweeter and drops the gain a bit, dulling the highs if you want. The fact that this doesn't appear to you in classical CD's which are usually better recordings due to the audience makes me think it's the other recordings that are the problem.

What equipment were you using prior to owning the M22ti's?

I'm having the same issues with M22's that arrived 2 weeks ago and rock music, just got off the phone with Joe@axiom and his sending 2 resistors to try out.

Little or no "toe-in" also aleviated some strain. This seems to be the biggest issue with an other wise great line of speakers and I wonder if the chief engineer Ian and team are considering toning/tuning down the highs on some models or if possible this can be done by request prior to shipping to accomodate those of us with sensitivities to "sharp" or "accurate" highs.

Impostor, I'd be curious to hear how you like (or don't like) the resistors once you've installed them. I installed resistors about a week ago on my M22's, and while I loved the M22's before, I do think they are a bit less bright now. Yes, some detail seems to be lost, but I don't think it really diminishes the speaker. I would have loved to have done some extensive listening with the resistors on, but my receiver just acted up, so I am out of commission until it is repaired.

Also, I think you raise an interesting point about the possibility of Axiom reducing the output of the tweeter at the production level or at the customer's request. This might be sacrilege for Axiom, but there is obviously some issue (albeit pretty minor) with the tweeter output due to the amount of people considering the resistors. Obviously, Axiom has sought to produce speakers with great clarity. The problem might be that since many of us don't have lots of options in our homes for acoustic treatments or placement of speakers, that the tweeter output is a bit too unforgiving. Just my .02 cents. But, considering how easy the resistor fix is, it's not big deal anyway.

imposter's and gem's posts reminded me of the olden days in which most hi-fi speakers had a built-in volume control(s) for the tweeter (and mid-range if three-way). I also remember that those thick-wired volume control pods tend to often deteriorate over time. Does any manufacturer still do this today in passive loudspeakers?

At any rate, this issue is the matter of speaker designer's philosophy. Unfortunately, no loudspeaker can be perfect for everybody, given the huge variations in room acoustic, personal preference, recording, and other factors. While many mid-fi (and indeed quite a few "hi-fi") speakers are designed to tame, or re-equalize, those "hot" pops records that are meant to be listened through an FM radio and far more common in the market than "acoustically flat" recordings, Axiom obviously considers that it is not a speaker designer's responsibility to tame such recordings. They think that what loudspeakers should do is just to get out what is fed in. The other day I had a chance to hear the Rockets a bit, which are highly raved in certain forums. Boy, are they laid-back!

Cheers!

It would be a shame to modify the highly acurate M22s with resistors. If you've ruled out the blown tweeter theory, then you might want to look toward the recording. You know the old saying, "junk in junk out". Not to say that your prefrences in music is junk, but that the engineering of the recording may be crap. I suspect that you may be now hearing all of the warts and blemishes of the recording. I have many recordings that I can't stand to listen to because they are so poorly recorded but they were quite bearable on the car radio. Speakers, no matter how good they are, should not have to compensate for "hot" recordings. The ones that do often sound very veiled and distant.

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imposter's and gem's posts reminded me of the olden days in which most hi-fi speakers had a built-in volume control(s) for the tweeter (and mid-range if three-way). I also remember that those thick-wired volume control pods tend to often deteriorate over time. Does any manufacturer still do this today in passive loudspeakers?

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About five years back, I bought a set of Infinity Studio Monitor series that did this. I don't believe I've seen it on any other speaker since, though.

Like sushi said, there are different philosophies to speaker design and Axiom has decided upon one that defines their character. I tend to agree with Axiom's design philosophy, personally, but it's a matter of opinion. It's also why I think people need to be more diligent in auditioning equipment. Different people will enjoy different things.

Personally, I wouldn't touch the speakers and would instead listen to them for a while and see if maybe my brain needed to just adjust to the new sounds it was hearing in the music, rather than loose detail in good performances. But it's your speaker, folks.

"This seems to be the biggest issue with an other wise great line of speakers"
I agree 100%
The best speakers do not try to reproduce every single sound on a recording. Great speakers try to convey the MUSIC. They allow the listener to enjoy the rhythm, pace, harmony and impact of the recording. They will not emphasize the crud on the recording. What does crud and distortion and hiss have to do with music?
We must deal with the reality that recordings and the electronic equipment we use to reproduce these recordings is not perfect. Good speakers will not show off these imperfections, they will allow the listener to glide past them without insulting the ears.

A speaker which doesn't reveal imperfections, but instead lets the listener "glide past them" by definition can't be "good". Tone controls and equalizers are meant to create off-setting inaccuracies in response to imperfections in recordings.