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#95160 - 05/20/05 07:28 AM Re: Speaker cable?
ratpack Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1155
Loc: Alabama
2X6: we have been through this "crap" before. I won't go much further because I don't want the boards to decompose into a "food fight." I appreciate the high standards here.

But, your opinion about speaker wire is absolutely electrically wrong! PERIOD!! But, you are entitled to your opinion. PEACE!! Enough said!

From someone who knows something about electrical engineering but not everything about electrical engineering.

The Rat.
_________________________
The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV

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#95161 - 05/20/05 10:26 AM Re: Speaker cable?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13333
Loc: Iowa
Dude, just go to Home Depot, Lowes, or Menards, they have speaker wire in bulk for a great price, it is not rocket science as some think...

By the way I thought Monster Cable was overpriced, this other stuff is a joke.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#95162 - 05/20/05 11:59 AM Re: Speaker cable?
samandnoah Offline
devotee

Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 320
Loc: Austin, TX
I never get involved in these frays, so this is a first for me. But I gotta step in here. How do you expect someone to react when something like this gets written?

"But, your opinion about speaker wire is absolutely electrically wrong! PERIOD!! But, you are entitled to your opinion. PEACE!! Enough said! "

So on the one hand you're saying everyone's entitled to their opinion, which basically implies "live and let live." But then you end up really saying everyone's entitled to their opinion, even if it is wrong. That's not quite as judgment free as your "peace" implies. From personal experience I think that makes it hard not to be on the defensive.

Ratpack, I'm truly not picking on you (and apologize in advance if it seems like I am), I just don't want to see this degrade. Sometimes it's not what we say, but how we say it that matters, partciularly when it's written and not in person -- without all of the attendant visual clues. While I don't agree with everything 2x6 has to say, I do think he's been a valuable contributor to this forum.

So, has anyone done the comparison with the specific Mapleshade speaker cables 2x6 recommended? Rather than merely the entire copper is copper position (which I'm actually more in the camp of), can anyone say they've tried them and heard no difference? Was it a double blind test? Was it in the same environment that 2x6 is in? Maybe there are real situations where cables *do* make a difference.

Regards,
Rich

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#95163 - 05/20/05 12:06 PM Re: Speaker cable?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13333
Loc: Iowa
I agree with Rich, I've seen this pattern on a few other posts. We don't want this to turn into another AVSforum. I respect everyone's opinion, and never use my profession to undermine another Axiom family member.

Peace Out
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#95164 - 05/20/05 12:24 PM Re: Speaker cable?
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
In reply to:

I respect everyone's opinion, and never use my profession to undermine another Axiom family member



me too... so shut-up... J/K..

agreed.. i dont like the posts that seem to get too personal. i have been guilty of it a few times myself, but i would like to think i try and make a serious effort to not let it get out of hand. i think its fair to say that we ALL feel passionate about our opinions.. but, we dont need to make others feel unworthy or that their opinion is wrong, just because its different than ours.

peace, love, and boobies fellas.. there are more important things in life!!

bigjohn
_________________________
EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??

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#95165 - 05/20/05 12:33 PM Re: Speaker cable?
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Hello fellas

Look, I try new stuff, some of it is OK, some of it blows my mind, some of it doesn't work out.

Now, anyone can build an awesome 2 channel system by throwing huge amounts of money into the project. What makes it interesting for me, is getting similar results at a huge discount.

I took a chance and bought Axiom speakers based on reviews I considered interesting. Worked out well for me!

Here's a list of some other things that have REALLY worked out for me:

1. Antique Sound Labs MG S1 15DT 5 wpc SET tube integrated amplifier. My actual cost after wheeling and dealing ... $250.

2. T Amp. $20.00, another $25 for the power supply.

3. Giant Thiel CS3.6 towers. Used and mint ... my cost about $1200.

4. Ah! Njoe Tjoeb tube output CDP with upsampler, Siemens E288CC tube upgrade, power kord, etc. I think this thing sounds great.

5. Axiom M3s, M60s, M80s, QS8s, Michaura M55s and M66s.

6. Mapleshade Clearview speaker cables and interconnects.

7. Sony TA E9000ES processor.

8. Philips SACD1000

9. Toshiba SD9200

10.Dahlquist D!M 905 speakers - if you find a pair, grabbem.


This list is not exhaustive and does not include my personal tweaking projects.

Here's a list of some things that did not work out for me. (Your results and opinions may differ)

1. Onkyo TXDS 797 receiver. (worked OK as a processor if you bypass the amp section - same for the Sony)

2. Sony STRDB 1070 receiver.

3. Axiom M50s and Michaura M665s.

4. Anthem PVA 5 amplifier.


I trust my ears. I thought the big buck Anthem amp would be great - it was OK. I thought the Technics receiver would be junk in a 2 channel system, it was terrific. I thought the T Amp would sound like a transistor radio - with a few mods it is a WORLD CLASS AMP.

Bottom line - I try stuff and then make up my mind. Now, I haven't tried any Shakri stones or green magic marker on my CDs, but I do use Caig ProGold, I think Mapleshade Clearview Double Golden Helix speaker wires are terrific and make a difference in sound quality (same for ICs), I like some tube amps and waking up next to super models. Your tastes may differ.

Try the speaker wire. Relax your preconceptions.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#95166 - 05/20/05 12:51 PM Re: Speaker cable?
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
I participate in this forum because I want your opinions.

Every opinion we give is personal because this is highly subjective matter. We trust our ears and eyes. Unfortunately now my ears and eyes are not what they were ten years ago. I know there is science behind some of it, but I get what I ask for - opinions. What I do with it is my concern.

On the other hand, a disputing opinion makes us want to jump in with both feet. If someone takes offense, I'm sorry, but all opinions count.

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#95167 - 05/20/05 01:41 PM Re: Speaker cable?
ratpack Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1155
Loc: Alabama
Folks: I started to let this go and move on, but I just can't!

There can be a major difference between opinion and technical fact. Opinions are NOT necessarily facts. More often than not, opinions are NOT fact! What I was trying to say was that he is entitled to his opinion, EVEN IF IT WAS WRONG, AND IT IS!!!! I am not intending to flame 2x6.

The "peace" was intended to sign off this issue.

From an electrical engineering standpoint, there is NO DIFFERENCE in audio transmission between good cable and those $2600 cables. Let's not get into what difference does .1 or .01 or .001 ohms makes in listening quality or other "claims" that the author made.

I strongly believe that one purpose of boards like this one is to dispell WRONG information to those that are seeking ground truth. The author of that speaker wire/ cable article was nothing more than a charlatan. Please review the definiton of charlatan very carefully. People who believe charlatans are fools!

This post may come across as very strong, but it REALLY disturbs me for a wrong opinion to parade around as fact.

Thank you for your time in reading this post.

Maybe we (I) should put this thread to bed and go on to something else.

The Rat.


_________________________
The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV

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#95168 - 05/20/05 01:54 PM Re: Speaker cable?
bray Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 1792
Loc: Colorado
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Dont carry this thread any further. I think this issue has been completely BEATEN TO DEATH!





Has anyone tried a good beer lately?
_________________________
LIFE IS SHORT.
DON'T BE A DICK.

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#95169 - 05/20/05 03:15 PM Re: Speaker cable?
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16273
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
It's wine season again. I went tasting in the Russian River wine region (CA) last weekend and returned with 8 bottles of red wine and a port -- and I only paid for two of the bottles. My mother-in-law likes us.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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