Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater SVS PC Ultra...........and why it has to go!

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i might have to go get a phd just to understand half the stuff you guys are talken about.

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Here's the "car guy version"...

12" vs 10" driver in sub... think of the 10" as a '70 Charger with a 340cid engine. Think of the 12" as a dump truck with a Cat C12 engine.

Start them beside each other... tell them go... they "should be able to go a city block in 10 seconds" so after 10 seconds - tell them to stop and reverse 2 blocks, wait 20 seconds, tell them to go forward 2 blocks again, repeat... who has the better chance of stopping on a dime and reversing direction without slowing down as they hit each extreme? Just as the Charger hits the turnaround mark, the dump truck may only be a few lengths into it's travel when it gets the signal to reverse direction. It's not an accurate representation of the "waveform".

If what you're trying to reproduce is a vehicle moving back and forth two block every 20 seconds - the Charger will "represent" that a lot better than the dump truck will (which if viewed by itself will look like the idea is to go 40 feet each way every 20 seconds!)

And for what all that terminology means:

-the waveform amplitude is 2 blocks (the total peak to peak difference)
-the frequency is 0.05Hz (20 seconds per complete cycle - 1 divided by 20) can one of you math types check that? That seems right to me?

Bren R.

You are forgetting one very important thing. The Charger and truck each have to move an added weight in addition to itself (as in air for the sub drivers). It takes less work for the truck to move that load. Ask the truck and Charger to move 1000 lbs. in addition to itself, and you get a slightly better analogy.

A better analogy would be two trucks, one 20% larger and more powerful than the other, and with better brakes.....then ask them to start and stop with the same loads.

What you are trying to describe is impulse response and/or decay of the drivers, which has a lot of factors......stiffness of the spider, strength of the magnet and motor assembly, response and power of the amplifier....and a lot more.

A 10" driver has to move much farther to move he same amount of air as a 12" driver.

That's what I get for speaking metaphorically.

I'll admit, my analogy was extremely flawed there... there are a lot of extra variables that wouldn't have made it in without sounding as best odd... "now if the car is made out of rigid aluminum rather than resined paper..."

Mainly meant as a joke for those who prefer a bit less tech in their explanation... but thanks for keeping me honest.

Bren R.

Yeah ok, well now that the fun has gone from this thread................what should we talk about now?

You guys can keep trying to baffle people with your ramblings but as I mentioned before, why not just contact SVS or HSU directly and get it direct from the guy's who do this for a living? I'm fairly certain that the folks at SVS, HSU or for that matter even Sunfire can explain a thing or two about why a 12inch driver can do exactly what a 10inch driver can do..................and do it just as well.

All I know is I heard the 10 and I heard the 12. The 10 had nothing on the 12. The 12 did everything the 10 did and did music as good as the 10 and perhaps even a little better. This wasn't the case with just the HSU subs either. I heard a few other 12 versions that I thought sounded very nice and very musical.

What about B&W? Love em or hate em they are known for making what some call a musical sub. That has been said time and time again about the ASW875 and the scary part is, the 875 uses a 15 inch driver!

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You guys can keep trying to baffle people with your ramblings

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Ouch... do you have to supply your own crown of thorns or does it come with the Holier Than Thou kit?

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but as I mentioned before, why not just contact SVS or HSU directly and get it direct from the guy's who do this for a living?

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Well, I do this for a living, they sell these for a living. If I were guaranteed an actual answer rather than a "through our patented space-age manufacturing process... we shift the paradigm and gleam the cube..." I probably would.

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I'm fairly certain that the folks at SVS, HSU or for that matter even Sunfire can explain a thing or two about why a 12inch driver can do exactly what a 10inch driver can do.

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Or Axiom of course. If Ian's trolling, mind ringing in on this subject? The EP350 and under - what are the differences between the drivers... besides just the depth they'll plumb on the frequency scale?

Bren R.

John, although it's contemplated that a cylinder sub will ordinarily be used upright, there's no technical problem whatever in placing it horizontally on the floor if that's more acceptable aesthetically.

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... do you have to supply your own crown of thorns or does it come with the Holier Than Thou kit?

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Darn, I'm all out, can you send me another one? Pot calling the kettle black don't you think? My post wasn't meant to be harsh. I must admit however that the words do sound harsher then they were intended. Sorry all. Nothing meant by it!

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there's no technical problem whatever in placing it horizontally on the floor if that's more acceptable aesthetically

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I must admit I did not know this. I would have thought that you would lose some response by not having the driver facing the floor.

Thanks for the info!

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Darn, I'm all out, can you send me another one?

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Nah, I'm a sanctimoniously non-religious pot.

Bren R.