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m?0
#251114 03/10/09 04:43 PM
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hello I'm back again!

My living room is around 12x12 and I currently have a pair of m22/qs8/vp100 + a 12" psb sub.

I have a wall in front of me and to the right.. the left side is leading to the kitchen and there is a fireplace behind my seating position. I have a projector and 120' image.

I know it may sound insane but is there anyone who placed a pair of m80 in a similar setup?

It's not that my sound is bad but I do think my m22 lacks any punch. My sub can deliver but I don't know, It's like I feel I'm missing something but I don't know what.

Re: m?0
LRA #251283 03/11/09 05:15 PM
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Might be your setup, how is your crossover set on the receiver for the m22's? I assume 80hz? Do you have them set to small?

Others have m80's in that room size, that is a lot of speaker though.


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: m?0
SirQuack #251292 03/11/09 06:17 PM
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So your listening area is 12X12 but is open to more space right? Going with this, I think it's not really the speakers, it's your sub. It's not able to pressurize the entire room properly. I have M22s and M80s in a 12X16 area that is open to another 12X16 area in an 'L' shape and when the M22s are paired with the SVS PB13 Ultra in this space, they have a similar impact as my M80s and PB13. I ran my M22s with a lesser quaility(?) sub than your PSB and I too thought it was my M22s, so I went for the floorstanders. I then upgraded my sub and tried out the M22s with the new sub and was surprised to find the problem to be more associated with the sub than the speakers.

I have found many retail subs to lack the sheer output and smoothness of SVS, Axiom, Hsu etc., especially in the lower to mid price ranges.

Having said all that, I do still find a touch more impact/fullness with the M80s/PB13 than with the M22'/PB13 but it is something only someone that is very picky about their sound would notice and I would think most likely only under A/B listening tests.

If you are not really looking to upgrade the sub then yes, you will get more from the M80s than the M22s, especially in the lower ranges and sheer SPL output. I now fill my entire room with sound from just the M80s/sub(sub not really required), where I had to use multichannel stereo mode/sub to really fill up the space when running the M22's.


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: m?0
jakewash #251308 03/11/09 08:30 PM
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Informative post. ;\)


Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
Re: m?0
SirQuack #251365 03/12/09 03:21 AM
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 Originally Posted By: sirquack
Might be your setup, how is your crossover set on the receiver for the m22's? I assume 80hz? Do you have them set to small?

Others have m80's in that room size, that is a lot of speaker though.


crossover is set to 80hz , speakers are set to large and receiver set to Subwoofer-Plus , which means that the base is sent to both SW and front speakers.

Re: m?0
LRA #251370 03/12/09 03:45 AM
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Luc, there shouldn't be any more "punch" than the recorded material contains, and I can certainly say that the M22s deliver that, especially in a small room such as yours. My preference would be to run the M22s "small" with an 80Hz crossover, which therefore wouldn't use the "plus" setting on the subwoofer assignment.


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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: m?0
jakewash #251371 03/12/09 03:47 AM
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 Originally Posted By: jakewash
So your listening area is 12X12 but is open to more space right? Going with this, I think it's not really the speakers, it's your sub. It's not able to pressurize the entire room properly. I have M22s and M80s in a 12X16 area that is open to another 12X16 area in an 'L' shape and when the M22s are paired with the SVS PB13 Ultra in this space, they have a similar impact as my M80s and PB13. I ran my M22s with a lesser quaility(?) sub than your PSB and I too thought it was my M22s, so I went for the floorstanders. I then upgraded my sub and tried out the M22s with the new sub and was surprised to find the problem to be more associated with the sub than the speakers.

I have found many retail subs to lack the sheer output and smoothness of SVS, Axiom, Hsu etc., especially in the lower to mid price ranges.

Having said all that, I do still find a touch more impact/fullness with the M80s/PB13 than with the M22'/PB13 but it is something only someone that is very picky about their sound would notice and I would think most likely only under A/B listening tests.

If you are not really looking to upgrade the sub then yes, you will get more from the M80s than the M22s, especially in the lower ranges and sheer SPL output. I now fill my entire room with sound from just the M80s/sub(sub not really required), where I had to use multichannel stereo mode/sub to really fill up the space when running the M22's.


when I listen to music in general I usually use the extended stereo mode. Both m22 and qs8 are fed with the same stereo signal and the result is not bad. The bass is somewhat different because if you move inside the room you will ear a different tone when you go near the qs8 or m22. I don't really have any complaints regarding my sub. I don't remember hearing one of better quality (to be honest I never checked the ones that were out of reach and I had this one for 12 years). My sub is the component I never intended to change.

I will try to post a pic tomorrow, there is a chance that my QS8 may be placed at the wrong spot.

I just feel sometime that I'm missing the WOW factor, when my sub is turned on, you know who's delivering the punch if it's off, nothing special. My friend bought a pair of Mirage omni 550 for 400$ and boy, you have the wow factor right away. He doesn't have any sub but I was surprised. I never compared the two side by side. Maybe my m22 shines somewhere else. I just find them very discreet.


If I get the m80 the m22 would go on my computer to replace my Axiom AX1.5!

I can keep my m22 also, I just feel something's missing or badly configured.

my AVR is a pio vsx-1018

\:\)

Re: m?0
JohnK #251372 03/12/09 03:56 AM
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 Originally Posted By: JohnK
Luc, there shouldn't be any more "punch" than the recorded material contains, and I can certainly say that the M22s deliver that, especially in a small room such as yours. My preference would be to run the M22s "small" with an 80Hz crossover, which therefore wouldn't use the "plus" setting on the subwoofer assignment.


I'm not really an expert when it comes to this but there is something fundamentally wrong for me when you ask me to set it to small.

For me it's like you're asking me this: do you accept to send less lower-frequencies to the speaker you bought because it has more bass than the AX1.5 I was upgrading from?

In my head, the small is the 'not good enough' setting. I can hardly select it! :-)

should the QS8 also be set to small?

what's the point of getting bigger speakers if we set them to small after! :-) you see where I'm going..

I know the sub is built for low frequencies I just want the whole package to blow the house, not just one! :-)

Re: m?0
LRA #251374 03/12/09 04:04 AM
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Yes, the QS8s should certainly also be set small. The entire concept of bass management in HT receivers such as your 1018 is that the sub gets the frequencies which it handles best, and takes some of the lowest bass load off the other speakers so that they can play the other frequencies a little more cleanly.


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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: m?0
LRA #251384 03/12/09 04:35 AM
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 Originally Posted By: LucRaymond
crossover is set to 80hz , speakers are set to large and receiver set to Subwoofer-Plus , which means that the base is sent to both SW and front speakers.

Just for giggles try setting the speakers to "small". When I changed my receiver to "plus", I had noticeably less bass. I think the sub and the mains were canceling each other.


Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011
Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8
Sony PS4, surround backs
-Chris
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