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very critical review of the VP150...makes me wary
#113077 10/18/05 12:01 AM
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I felt it necessary to add a few comments for this product. I spend a great deal of time listening to various home theater gear. If I had an unlimited budget, I'd have no problem in exceeding it But I am rather the reverse; I have a very limited budget for new gear and thus, I make careful decisions when I lay down my cash for new items.
Axiom Audio has earned my respect and won my hard earned dollars by offering high levels of performance and extremely high value together with excellent service. Many others have also found this to be true. Axiom's bookshelf, tower and especially their spectacular QS surround speakers have all found nearly universal praise.
But Axiom's center speakers have received more negativity. That negativity almost led me to purchase Ascend Acoustic speakers instead of Axioms. The fact of the matter is that I hold Ascend in the highest regard and wouldn't hesitate at all to recommend their speakers as they are excellent. I likely would have bought Ascend were it not for the costly shipping and brokerage fees I would have paid to have their speakers delivered to me in Canada. In the end, Axiom's free shipping saved me a sizable amount of money and was a deciding factor in my final purchase.
Based purely on sound, BOTH Axiom and Ascend speakers offer superb performance. A slight difference emerges though and the Ascend speakers reveal themselves to be extremely neutral, while the Axiom speakers are a tad more forward.
But let's move on to the point of this review. The VP150 has been criticized for having sibilance (over-pronounced "s", "sh" sounds,) a lack of bass and poor off-axis response with too great a degree of timbral change. The simple fact is that I can totally understand how people may have heard this from the VP150 speaker, but these are not inherent characteristics of the speaker itself.
The VP150 is an unforgiving speaker, not only of source material and the equipment upstream, but of room acoustics and placement as well. Axiom designs their speakers for flat frequency response in an anechoic environment, not an adjusted response for estimated room acoustics. What Axiom delivers with the VP150 is a technically and mathematically well designed speaker. But unlike Paradigm, Axiom has not adjusted the output to compensate for what they can only guess to be YOUR room's acoustics.
The result is simply this: if you have not treated your room acoustically with absorption and diffusion panels, you will likely find the VP150 sibilant, bright and/or harsh. Unlike most speaker companies, Axiom does not roll off the high end frequencies. Nor does Ascend, which is why both sound very detailed. But Ascend's cross-overs have been designed to partially compensate for room boundary reflections, leading to what sounds like a more spacious and even sound in most untreated rooms. That spaciousness actually collapses a little in a properly treated room and the CMT-340c and VP150 sound much the same.
As for the complaint of little bass from the VP150; I can only say that Axiom plainly states the -3 dB point at 85 Hz, which is JUST low enough to blend with a subwoofer crossed-over at the THX spec of 80 Hz.
And speaking of THX - there is indeed a reason why they include their own brand of processing on THX approved receivers and pre/pros. One of the key features is THX equalization, which largely reduces high frequency output. The reason for this is because movie theaters require boosted high frequency levels to overcome the damping of so many human bodies in the theater. When this boosted high frequency soundtrack is played at home, it is overbearing. BUT most speakers roll-off the high frequencies anyway! Many people have wondered why THX equalization even exists because they have never heard these boosted high frequencies. The VP150 plays these boosted high frequencies with no manufactured roll-off of their own, leading to the sibilance and brightness many people describe. Engaging THX equalization finally makes sense and the result is very pleasing.
Finally, poor off-axis response is also the result of an acoustically untreated room in most cases. Within a 30 degree window, each tweeter has no timbre change in a room without wall and ceiling reflections. Part of the problem is that the Axiom tweeter actually has a very wide cone of relatively flat frequency response, leading to cancellations and peaks in an untreated room.
All-in-all, this is a fabulous sounding speaker, but only in the proper environment. Given proper room treatment and placement, the VP150 delivers extremely clear and articulate sound with superior detail and even response within 15-20 degress to either side of the speaker.

Strengths:
Extremely accurate (to a fault - ie. no high frequency roll-off), detailed and clear. Efficient, dynamic and well made.

Weaknesses:
Unforgiving of poor room acoustics and placement. Absolutely requires acoustic room treatment and even THX equalization (or equivilant) to avoid sounding bright or even sibilant.


Axiom M60Ti Infinity 2000.6 x 4 Infinity RS1 rear Infinity CC200 HSU VTF3 - MKII
Re: very critical review of the VP150...makes me w
#113078 10/18/05 12:22 AM
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i am not saying i won't try out one...but... i have heard these kinds of complaints about the VP150 on various sites....not just this ONE...any thoughts???


Axiom M60Ti Infinity 2000.6 x 4 Infinity RS1 rear Infinity CC200 HSU VTF3 - MKII
Re: very critical review of the VP150...makes me w
#113079 10/18/05 12:55 AM
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Mike, this is a very well written review, which appears to be based on hearsay. In fact, there are a lot more positive reviews from credible AV sources that carry more weight than a few comments from places like AVSforum.

The same type of comments are found all over places like AVS about the M60's, M80's, and Qs8's. Most of them are from people that have never listened to Axiom, but for some reason like to bash Axiom with false claims.

Axiom's are actual neutral, not bright ( or a tad bit bright), by design, however, everyone's opinion is different. When I was first looking at speakers over a year ago, I was told to stay away from the M60's as they are to harsh, especially when teamed up with a Denon. Those trolls from AVS could not have been farther from the truth. The Denon/M60's combination is by far from harsh or bright. The tweeters/woofers on the vp150 are the same technology as the mains in the Axiom line.

In regards to Sibliance, that is not what most of us Axiom owners experience with their 150's, and I'm sure you won't either if you actually listen to them yourself instead of listening to others who are just trying to bash the Axiom name.


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: very critical review of the VP150...makes me wary
#113080 10/18/05 03:50 AM
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I too have sibilance issues.

Re: very critical review of the VP150...makes me wary
#113081 10/18/05 03:57 AM
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We had Ascends here for over a year, they are nice speakers. They don't come close to the accuracy, dynamics, and clarity of the Axioms. For the $$$, the VP-150 is an amazing center channel.

It does, however, need a great front end. The Arcam AVR-300 is a nice choice - as is the NAD 773 and larger Harmon Kardons.

Cheap receivers will be eaten up by the 150.

Re: very critical review of the VP150...makes me w
#113082 10/18/05 04:14 AM
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well, that was not written on AVS...but an independent review i found online....i'll try one out soon enough i'm sure


Axiom M60Ti Infinity 2000.6 x 4 Infinity RS1 rear Infinity CC200 HSU VTF3 - MKII
Re: very critical review of the VP150...makes me w
#113083 10/18/05 03:07 PM
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If you find that review, please share.


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: very critical review of the VP150...makes me w
#113084 10/18/05 04:25 PM
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Until you want to cite your source, this is worse than irrelevant. Casting anonymous, uninformed aspersions used to be called slander. Publishing somebody else's work without attributing it used to be called plagarism.

Look, some people like the VP150, some don't. As with all things in audio, a good portion of your level of satisfaction is purely subjective. I'm also fully ready to concede (even advance) the theory that The Room is the forgotten component, and makes a tremendous difference.

About two or three times a year, somebody vociferously forwards the idea that the VP150 is a piece of junk. To me, that notion simply does not pass the straight-face test. Axiom builds highly acclaimed main speakers (both bookshelves and towers) - how is it plausible that they continue to design, manufacture and sell center channels that are mysteriously sibilant while using the exact same tweeter?

Furthermore, the gist of the review is that the VP150 may be somewhat intolerant of the acoustics in certain rooms. Gee, there's a real stretch of the imagination. It's like saying that a Ferrari performs poorly in bumper-to-bumper traffic. Placement matters.

In a large room like yours, it seems extremely unlikely that you would experience the placement issues or nulls that others have found objectionable.

There are LOTS of happy VP150 owners, and an extremely vocal minority of people that have had trouble with it in their rooms. Given the risk-free trial period and overwhelming statistical evidence of customer satisfaction, there is a point at which I harken to wisdom dispensed in The Sweet Potato Queen's Big-Ass Cookbook and FInancial Planner - "get happy, don't get happy - it's the shuttin' up that counts"


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Re: very critical review of the VP150...makes me wary
#113085 10/18/05 04:37 PM
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I'm not sure what the point of posting this (?)review(?) was? If it's to assert that if the VP150 placed poorly in a unforgiving room does not sound very good then you could say that about many speakers. Personally my VP150 does very well in my room and strangely enough sits on top of of my RPTV in the centre with no issues. Strange that this would work so well.


2xM80 VP180 2xQS8 2xM3 HSU STF3 LG 60PS11 Denon 3808 ATI 1506 LCR 2xATI 1502 Oppo BDP-83
Re: very critical review of the VP150...makes me w
#113086 10/18/05 05:12 PM
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that review is from audioreview.com
Link: http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/axiom-speaker-company/center-channels/PRD_125695_2743crx.aspx

Last edited by darren700; 10/18/05 05:19 PM.

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