Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions in-wall volume knob, outdoor M3's!

Hi everyone:

I just bought a pair of the outdoor m3's (too hard to remember that name). Very VERY nice sound out of them. I also have a pair of indoor M3's, M40's, QS8, VP100 .. so I'm familiar (and obviously happy!) with the axiom sound.

Anyway, I did all the wiring the past couple weeks to wire my slimbox (i LOVE that thing!) to the outdoor speakers. My slimbox goes in via RCA cables to a yamaha receiver. I have my indoor M3's attached and the outdoor M3's attached to this receiver. I run speaker wire from the receiver down through my basement and up through a in-wall volume switch and then from the switch outside.

My question (you knew there was a question, right?) is 2-fold:

1) why do these in-wall volume speakers have to have preset "click" settings (i don't know what to call them, prepositions?). My best guess from reading is that the switch is keeping the resistance constant to the receiver and it can't do this on an "infinite" sliding scale like a dimmer would present? It's annoying, but i can't find a product that doesn't have the "steps" (I've found 12step controls).

2) The volume out of the speakers is too low. I had my receiver at maybe 33% volume when I was just driving my B channel for the indoor M3s. Now I have it 75% with my A channel driving the outdoor M3s, and even with that I have to crank the volume all the way up with the in-wall switch. The volume is acceptable for normal deck listening, but I want SOME headroom. Any idea what's causing this?

I am going to wire the switch OUT to see what happens. But I wanted to get any opinions as well just to hear the "experts" opinion.

Thanks!

Hi Jim,

These volume controls utilize a multi-tap transformer to vary the voltage delivered to the amplifier. Hence the clicks.

With regard to your issue, you may want to confirm that you wired the control as per the instructions. I'm not sure what would happen if you wire this control "backwards".

Also remember that outdoors the SPL will be lower than indoors by about 3-4 dB. So expect to have to deliver twice as much power to the outdoor speaker to achieve the same SPL as indoors.

What is the make and model of the volume control that you are using? I'm curious what its specifications are. It may not be able to deliver the full power of your amplifier to the Algonquins due to transformer saturation.

Thanks for the answer Mojo.

The control is a radio shack one I picked up years back. It doesn't even have impedance matching as an option so I think it's pretty crappy (beyond the normal radio shack sub-par level that is). Any idea if they sell ones that don't have the clicks? Or is that not possible with a transformer?

I also may be able to cut off 10' or so of extra wire ... right now I left a lot extra because I haven't mounted them as of yet (that's the ONE complain I have about the speakers .. outside you are nearly GUARANTEED to have to mount your speakers (vs. inside which is all room setup). And yet there's not even a dumb little hook to hang them on like the QS8's come with. Maybe I should complain a bit to axiom .. kind of silly given how much they usually try to accomodate their customers.

At any rate, I'm certain they are wired correctly, but I do have a crappy control AND a bit long on the wire (it's home depot 16 gauge generic stuff).

I'll wire the control out and see what the volume sounds like ..

Thanks.
Jim

I just looked at my post again and I saw that it said "...vary the voltage delivered to the amplifier.". I meant speaker and not amplifier. Sorry about that.

My brother-in-law actually has one that does not have "clicks". His in-ceiling speakers sound like absolute garbage and I think it's because of the control he's using. All the ones that are touted as high quality have taps/clicks. I haven't seen any that are "smooth" but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

That's a good idea about wiring the control out to see what happens. Also, how long is your wire-run? That could make a difference too if you end up dropping half your voltage across the wire .

Axiom probably expects that you would mount them on a bracket like the FMB so that you can tilt them. Perhaps that's why they didn't use the same mounting hooks as the QS8s.

Hey Mojo and JimBass,

My recollection is that wire-wound variable potentiometers (so-called L-pads) that have continuous adjustment are considered a no-no for hi-quality applications for reasons that at this hour on a Saturday morning, minus my third cup of coffee, I can't recall

But it's likely the reason that the stepped ones are a much better alternative.

Regards,

I don't know either but any time someone inserts resistors in the speaker circuit, it of course messes around with the speaker's characteristics. It's kind of like getting a gourmet meal and smothering it with ketchup .

Heh, nice analogy. Not the one I want to hear .. but nice one anyway.

I don't see any way around having a control in the middle between my amp and outside speakers. I have 2 sets of speakers, my slimbox is the source material being pushed into my amp.

I wired the control out of the circuit and it sounded the same... so I shortened my wire. Man I went nuts with the extra wire! I probably cut at LEAST 20-30' off ... and when I was done .... it was still the same!

So now I have maybe 40-50' of wire for each outside speaker ... it's 16 gauge wire which I know is not optimal, but given I shortened it so much and didn't notice that much of a difference I'm not sure it seems to matter.

So now I'm confused. Maybe I'll take my other M3s (indoor) and try them out ... god I don't want to have to buy more wire and rewire this thing.

Quote:

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I don't know either but any time someone inserts resistors in the speaker circuit, it of course messes around with the speaker's characteristics. It's kind of like getting a gourmet meal and smothering it with ketchup .

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Thanks for chiming in alan. I was looking like crazy for non-stepped ones .. I'll give it up now given your answer and the fact I can't seem to find any anyway.

Quote:

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Hey Mojo and JimBass,

My recollection is that wire-wound variable potentiometers (so-called L-pads) that have continuous adjustment are considered a no-no for hi-quality applications for reasons that at this hour on a Saturday morning, minus my third cup of coffee, I can't recall

But it's likely the reason that the stepped ones are a much better alternative.

Regards,

---

Argh! I hooked up my indoor M3s outside and same thing. Not that I WANTED it to be the speaker (and not that I BELIEVED it would be), but I'm left with thinking my only choice is to go 14 gauge or 12 gauge. I don't even know how I'll fit that gauge into the control.

Maybe I'll just sit back and enjoy the laid-back mellow volume of my new speakers for awhile. Yeah, that's it.

Besides they'll be loud enough to listen to while I'm eating crabs and drinking beer tonight on the deck with my wife!

Hang on. Don't go ripping out your wire! Let's just sit back (with a beer in hand) and think about this . Let me work out some numbers.

But also remember what I said before. The SPL in room is 4 dB higher compared to "outdoors" according to Axiom. So this means you'll need twice as much power outdoors for the same SPL.