Version 3

Posted by: Ian

Version 3 - 06/23/10 11:33 AM


Everyone,

It is a very exciting day at Axiom today. Over the past few years we have been working on a number of major improvements to our entire line. Today we will officially launch Version 3 on our website.

Version 3 brings some major improvements to the sound quality of every model along with some pretty cool cosmetic changes. The changes that affect the performance of the products began being incorporated about one year ago (longer for some of the woofers) and were completed on all models a few months ago. As of a few weeks ago the cosmetic changes were incorporated into our manufacturing and today our website will change to reflect these changes.

The main cosmetic changes are the aluminum dust caps, which are now made from the same material as our cones, and the elimination of the grille pins with the introduction of magnet grilles. It should be noted that the in-wall products will remain with grille pins as the female grille pin in the baffle is the access point for the screws which control the swing arms to mount these products to your wall.

As for changes to the performance we have redesigned our tweeter, all of our crossovers, and most of our woofers. I think the best way to describe the difference in performance may be to simply quote from an e-mail I received from a customer who has moved from Version 2 to Version 3 M80s.

 Quote:
ďThe changes that you've made to the M80s are not subtle. It is that different! The first thing that I noticed was that the sound stage increased, dramatically. I describe it now as voluminous, wide and deep but at the same time, minutely precise. It's like the curtains were pulled back away from the stage. The sound field increased in all dimensions. I especially hear a lot more spatial depth. It's much easier to locate the position of performers in the sound field. The sound is especially seductive. It wraps around you.

The sound seems much more uniform over all frequencies. These speakers are so musical; I feel it necessary to make an analogy to the operatic voice. In vocal study, one strives to even out the registers in a voice so that a singer's sound is seamless throughout the entire range (so no one can detect a break when going from chest to head voice, etc). This is how I feel about these speakers. My impression is that you've particularly smoothed out the transition between the mid range and highs.

I am particularly blown away by the high end of these speakers. There's a new precision and GREATLY increased detail in the sound. In playing a stringed instrument (I've studied the 'cello), we pay attention to the 'core' sound of the strings making sure that when we bow the instrument, we always 'dig in' to the string adequately in order to make sure that the 'core' of the sound is always there. It is especially essential when playing something very softly. This is how emotion is subtly conveyed through sound. I'm hearing the 'core' of the sound with all music through this system like never before. Solo instruments and voices sound live, with minute detail in the sound. I can hear this will all instruments. In particular, operatic singers' voices now blossom as they sing a high loud passage. It takes my breath away! You have blown the top off the ceiling of these speakers. I listened to a lot of music louder than one probably should and the sound was not fatiguing. There's so much space around the upper frequencies. While I'm not even remotely a sound engineer, it seems to me that the proper way to 'warm up' sound in the upper frequencies is to add space around it (this is what my voice teachers said about proper vocal production) not 'soften' it by 'rounding off' or 'decreasing the treble'. That would rob you of reality. Additionally, there's a nice big fat, spacious area in the mids. Also of note are trumpets and brass. Rather than going 'ouch' on a loud passage, you get chills. Again, 'expansive' comes to mind.

Ian. I want to thank you for allowing me the privilege to experience this. You've created some real magic with these speakers. As I said at the beginning of this note, you have made a MAJOR change to the M80s with these modifications and it's THRILLING!!!! Many, many kudos to you and your staff at Axiom.Ē


It is very fitting that the release of Version 3 coincides with our 30th year in business. They are both big milestones in Axiom history.
Posted by: snazzed

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 12:04 PM

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I only just bought my M22s and QS8s in February! Does this mean I have to upgrade?! Hmm... lets look into the upgrade program...

At the very least I now have to change my sig line to specify v2.

/facepalm

snazzed
Posted by: Ian

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 12:10 PM


Snazzed,

If you e-mail your Model and Serial Number to noreen@axiomaudio.com she can tell you if you have all the latest Version 3 performance mods.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 12:29 PM

Outstanding! Can't wait to get my v3's \:\)
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 12:35 PM

Do the crossover changes coincide with different XO points being used on the V3 models?
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 12:47 PM

Gonna be a lot of ti's and V2's at auction.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 12:49 PM

Very cool Ian. I'll be sure to give the new M80 a careful listen when I am up there in September.

Did you update the anechoic measurements as well?
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 12:53 PM

 Originally Posted By: fredk
Very cool Ian. I'll be sure to give the new M80 a careful listen when I am up there in September.

Did you update the anechoic measurements as well?


Great point, I would love to see a new FR graph for the M80 v3.
Posted by: axiomoholic

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 01:27 PM

Was there ever a version 2 of the M60 In-Cabinet speakers? My reciept of a couple weeks ago says T60 with no verison number

The mids and woofers have the black dust caps, but I know the in-cabinets are a new design, so I'm wondering if I got older components, perhaps in an experimental model..?
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 01:32 PM

Glad I bought my speakers yesterday, so I will be getting version 3. Thank God!
Posted by: axiomoholic

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 01:40 PM

 Originally Posted By: Ichigo_Kurosaki
Glad I bought my speakers yesterday, so I will be getting version 3. Thank God!


Yeah - this thread is going to result in one of two responses:

Oh Yes! - from those who have pretty old stuff and are happy to see progress within "our" company.

Oh No! - from those (maybe me) who just bought in the last few weeks.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 02:11 PM

I'll point out that if you bought in the last few weeks, the only changes you didn't get were cosmetic--the aluminum dust caps and the magnetic grills. At least they'll sound the same...
Posted by: Ian

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 02:13 PM


htnut,

Over the next few days we will be posting the new manuals, which have graphs in them now, and updating the specs (including graphs) for every model.
Posted by: Ian

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 02:15 PM


axiomoholic,

Your M60 in-cabinet will have all the Version 3 performance updates.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 02:25 PM

 Originally Posted By: Ian

htnut,

Over the next few days we will be posting the new manuals, which have graphs in them now, and updating the specs (including graphs) for every model.


Awesome, I can't wait to check out all of them \:\)
Posted by: bluray

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 02:53 PM

Ian and Team - Congrats on the constant improvement... and a question:

I own an EP800 (built once you guys worked through some amp issues in the pre-release stage). I take it this product's performance parts aren't changing in conjunction with this sweep of upgrades? Of course, no black dust cap to begin with, so will the only change here be magnetic grills? I hope so, so I can feel like I have the latest and greatest. \:\) Not that I won't have M80s and M22s to upgrade...
Posted by: Ian

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 03:09 PM


bluray,

Your EP800 has everything v3 except the magnet grilles.
Posted by: Philippe

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 04:39 PM

I bought few weeks ago a 5.1 set speaker. Order made the 2010-04-30. Now when i see this, it is really disappointing. Haven't recieve any newsletter from Axiom to let me know a new version comming. I guess it's a part of markerting otherwise everyone would waiting but for those who actually bought product only few weeks ago this is frustrating. Fortunately i enjoy my new speaker, but at the same time i could get better...

I just email to Noreen according to my serial and model. I hope to recieve a positive respond that i got the new version. (i dont care about the white cone)
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 04:44 PM

Please see Ian's comment to Snazzed:

If you e-mail your Model and Serial Number to noreen@axiomaudio.com she can tell you if you have all the latest Version 3 performance mods.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 04:52 PM

 Originally Posted By: Philippe
I bought few weeks ago a 5.1 set speaker. Order made the 2010-04-30. Now when i see this, it is really disappointing. Haven't recieve any newsletter from Axiom to let me know a new version comming. I guess it's a part of markerting otherwise everyone would waiting but for those who actually bought product only few weeks ago this is frustrating. Fortunately i enjoy my new speaker, but at the same time i could get better...

I just email to Noreen according to my serial and model. I hope to recieve a positive respond that i got the new version. (i dont care about the white cone)


Your concerns and disappointment is understandable Philippe. You should call their toll free number or send an email that is available in the above post to see what they can do for you.
Posted by: Philippe

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 04:59 PM

EFalardeau if i wrote to Noreen it was according to the previous Ian's mail i saw. Here is what Noreen reply

Hi Phil,

Your order would have had V3 components all that you would have is the magnetic grilles and the white cones.

Thanks

Noreen


So i dont really care about the white cone like i said but those magnetic grilles... i wish i had them since i dont have grill on. I also have the high gloss finnish so...
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 05:05 PM

Philippe, while I understand your disappointment on one level, I also feel that it's the reality of buying anything that involves electronics or technology. There's always an update around the corner.

Some companies announce updates well in advance in the hopes of stealing other companies' sales and other companies realize that if, for example, they say "Hey, everyone, there's going to be an improvement to our product line next month", sales of their current product would immediately fall off a cliff. Axiom did the best across the board: Gave some of those improvements to those who ordered months ago.

Glass half empty: You wish you had the magnetic grilles

Glass half full: You got the updated V3 components and performance, though you purchased what you believed to be a V2 item.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 05:06 PM

 Originally Posted By: Philippe
EFalardeau if i wrote to Noreen it was according to the previous Ian's mail i saw. Here is what Noreen reply

Hi Phil,

Your order would have had V3 components all that you would have is the magnetic grilles and the white cones.

Thanks

Noreen


So i dont really care about the white cone like i said but those magnetic grilles... i wish i had them since i dont have grill on. I also have the high gloss finnish so...


If you are still not satisfied it can't hurt to call them and talk to a person(s)
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 05:08 PM

Talk to a person, anyone remember how to do that? ;\)
Posted by: Philippe

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 05:14 PM

I do not complain about my current speaker. Actually they are pretty amazing. And if i bought from Axiom it was for mainly 2 reason. First it's a made in Canada and second for thier great customer service. Having say that, i am not so disappointed since Noreen reply, in fact that was the respond i was hoping for.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 05:21 PM

If the magnetic grilles are really important to you perhaps a phone call might yield some results with a return and new speakers en route as you are only a month outside the 30 day policy. It couldn't hurt to ask. \:\)
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 06:39 PM

 Quote:
Glass half empty: You wish you had the magnetic grilles

Glass half full: You got the updated V3 components and performance, though you purchased what you believed to be a V2 item.

And if you're like me and bought the v2 two years ago.

Glass completely empty: refill with favourite beverage, put on tunes, sit back, relax and enjoy. ;\)
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 09:46 PM

I have been looking for an excuse to upgrade my system that will be 3 years old in november.

However, In reality this will all have to wait until I buy a house. Please stop coming out with things I want until I have moved into a new house and stopped paying rent!

Kudos to Axiom!

Oh yeah, how much have the QS8 speakers changed?
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 09:49 PM

ooooohhhhh.. the QS8's look sexy with no grill holes and ugly knobby grill posts!
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 10:02 PM

Fun. I used the trade up program and added all of my speakers (m80, ep500, vp150, and QS8s) and added the new m80s, Qd8s, vp180, and ep800 into my shopping cart.

I needed to purchase more to get the full trade up value so I threw in an A1400-2 amp. $7500 worth of gear for $5000 with the trade up.

Another option would be to keep the ep500 and dump the amp out of the cart.. this gives me about $4900 worth of gear for $3300.

Or, I could keep the ep500 AND get the A1400 amp and get get $7500 worth of gear for $5600.

My how easy it is to fill up a virtual shopping cart :).


Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 11:13 PM

I wanted the corvette with 500hp, but only got the one with 475 a month prior. It is funny how people don't understand that product changes over time and they can't announce it to everyone, this is no different than anything else in life.
Posted by: turbo16v

Re: Version 3 - 06/23/10 11:16 PM

would it be possible to upgrade the crossovers in the current v2's we already have? rather than buying all new speakers?
Posted by: bdpf

Re: Version 3 - 06/24/10 12:11 AM

Can somebody tell me where to find the trade up page?
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 06/24/10 12:33 AM

 Originally Posted By: sirquack
I wanted the corvette with 500hp, but only got the one with 475 a month prior. It is funny how people don't understand that product changes over time and they can't announce it to everyone, this is no different than anything else in life.

Yeah, but what if you wanted magnetic grilles on that 'vette??
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Version 3 - 06/24/10 02:15 AM

Here .
Posted by: Philippe

Re: Version 3 - 06/24/10 10:39 AM

Well i do not complain about all of it. The point is only that i have order a custom finnish ( high gloss cherry ) So they had to build the whole set. This is where i am nettle. But for now Axiom has been really kind with me so i wont call them to find an issue with that. I still a 100% satisfied customer who wished his magnetic grilles \:\)
Posted by: snazzed

Re: Version 3 - 06/24/10 11:02 AM

 Originally Posted By: terzaghi
My how easy it is to fill up a virtual shopping cart :).


Quote: Darth Vader
___________________
All too easy.

Impressive... but you are not a Jedi yet.
___________________

sorry, I had to!
snazzed
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Version 3 - 06/24/10 11:36 AM


Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Version 3 - 06/24/10 11:42 AM

I can understand your concern now Snazzed, if it was a custom job and so close to the realease, it would have been nice to get the updated grills.
Posted by: Ascension

Re: Version 3 - 06/24/10 12:40 PM

 Originally Posted By: terzaghi
Fun. I used the trade up program and added all of my speakers (m80, ep500, vp150, and QS8s) and added the new m80s, Qd8s, vp180, and ep800 into my shopping cart.





Where on this site is that at? I'm curious on my M60's to M80's with the warmcherry wood vinyl?
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Version 3 - 06/24/10 12:45 PM

The link to and the tradeup program are now gone, you now have to use the Axiom Auction.

http://deals.axiomaudio.com/
Posted by: snazzed

Re: Version 3 - 06/24/10 01:29 PM

 Originally Posted By: sirquack
I can understand your concern now Snazzed, if it was a custom job and so close to the realease, it would have been nice to get the updated grills.


Oh, realistically speaking, I'm not concerned at all. I'm very happy with my M22s and QS8s and if I happened to get the v3 componants (haven't checked yet)... double bonus! If not and I only have the v2s... I'm very happy with my purchase! \:\)

And I couldn't care less about magnetic grills. I never take them off anyway.

snazzed
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 06/24/10 01:32 PM

Again, the changes announced are merely cosmetic. Axiom's been shipping v3 drivers and crossovers for several months now.
Posted by: TonyMc

Re: Version 3 - 06/24/10 03:17 PM

 Originally Posted By: sirquack
I can understand your concern now Snazzed, if it was a custom job and so close to the realease, it would have been nice to get the updated grills.


That's the state I'm in. I just bought my custom M60s a month and a half ago. Would have been nice to know. \:\(
Don't get me wrong. I love my Axioms and I'm sure I have the v3 performance upgrades, but I sure would liked to have known the magnet grills were coming. I would have waited.


 Originally Posted By: sirquack
I wanted the corvette with 500hp, but only got the one with 475 a month prior. It is funny how people don't understand that product changes over time and they can't announce it to everyone, this is no different than anything else in life.


You can't help human emotion. People are people and form opinions based on their feelings. I can see there are some hurt feelings here and you can't change that.
I have a feeling there will be some future sales to return customers lost over this.
I know I would have liked a heads up.
Posted by: Potatohead

Re: Version 3 - 06/24/10 06:35 PM

I bought my speakers about a year ago, so I doubt I have the V3 components internally which is a little disappointing, but like others have said things are always changing and really there is not much you can do about it. If you are happy with your system I would not sweat it :).

Posted by: Wid

Re: Version 3 - 06/24/10 06:40 PM


I bought my M80s 7 years ago, damn I don't think I got the V3 either \:\) I did, just a short while ago, buy a VP150 and 3 QS4s which I assume has the V3 components and to my ear they mesh very well with my old, but in perfect shape, M80s.
Posted by: RickF

Re: Version 3 - 06/24/10 07:13 PM

I'm not complaining but the timing of the release of the new VP180 coinciding with the release of the new v3 version speakers a little closer would have been nice ... I'll only use my example:

Had I known that my mains would have been outdated to the new ďThe changes that you've made to the M80s are not subtle. It is that different!"M80v3's this soon, I would have ordered my new VP180 in an upgraded finish to match my probably soon to be new M80v3's in the same upgraded finish rather than matching the new VP180 to my existing vinyl wrapped M80v2's.

To be quite honest, the fact that I just purchased a VP180 in vinyl to match my current M80s is probably enough reason for me to not jump onto the v3 upgrade wagon.

For you newer folks, the gloss and upgraded finishes were not available at the time that some of us older folks bought our speakers.






Posted by: jakewash

Re: Version 3 - 06/24/10 07:26 PM

If you are an oldtimer on the forum does that mean the next speaker purchase needs to be in gray and they come with hearing aids?
Posted by: RickF

Re: Version 3 - 06/24/10 07:34 PM

It also means that the speaker needs to be wide enough to accommodate an array of hats facing backwards as well.

In an upgraded finish.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Version 3 - 06/24/10 07:42 PM

You mean you can get different colors now ? When did this happen ?
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Version 3 - 06/24/10 10:25 PM

bummer the trade up program is gone. From my perspective I would have liked to use it since the tradeup program was giving what I think is top dollar for the used gear. From axioms view point I could see how it was probably more hassle than it was worth.

Is there a way to sell complete 5.1 systems (or other groups of speakers) on the auction as an "all or nothing" package?
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Version 3 - 06/24/10 10:51 PM

that is a good thought, if I was ever going to upgrade my 1-2 yr old Axioms I would want to unload on the entire package. Well, maybe keep some of the subs not sure. \:\)
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 01:14 AM

I would imagine if you specified the sale as such in the description, ie. "Full 5.1 system will not sell separately", it should be sufficient to the prospective buyers that you are only selling the entire system.
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 01:34 AM

 Originally Posted By: terzaghi
bummer the trade up program is gone.


I'm bummed about that, too. I would have preferred doing it that way.

I imagine I'll be upgrading my M80s and getting a VP180. I always figured I'd upgrade if Axiom ever released a new flagship speaker so I could give my current M80s to my dad. He's slowly getting pieces that I upgrade from. So far he has an EP600 and a VP150 from me. While I expected to upgrade after the release of an M120 or something, the v3 M80 seems like enough of an improvement. I'm disappointed that my EP800s won't match now. I prefer having the grills off, so two will look smooth and two will have the holes. Of course, I'll probably end up having them face each other like JohnK suggested, so it shouldn't matter too much.

I'm glad Axiom is making these changes, despite the mismatch with my existing system. Magnetic grills were a long time coming. I don't mind the new look of the drivers, but I don't think I'll prefer them over what I have. We'll see.
Posted by: Ian

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 04:00 AM

RickF,

The release of the new VP180 is what prompted us to also release Version 3 now. The original intention was to release Version 3 in early September but we realized it would be silly to bring out a new model in Version 2 and then change it to Version 3 in less than 3 months.
Posted by: RickF

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 06:58 AM

Thanks for the explanation Ian, I figured there had to be some practical underlying reason. Man that VP180 really got the ball rolling, didn't it!
Posted by: PaulHa

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 09:07 AM

I am not pleased.
I inquired if the trade-in program was still applicable. I wanted to trade in my M60's and VP150 for M80's and the VP180.
Here are the two e-mails received on June 17, 2010:

First e-mail:
Thanks for your e-mail! My name is Brent; I'm an expert audio advisor with Axiom.

I thank you for your interest in Axiom Award-winning audio speakers and taking the time to send us in your request.

Axiom does still offer a trade up, I have provided a link to the trade-up program.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/tradeup.html

Please don't hesitate to contact me directly anytime - my contact information is below - or call the Axiom toll-free line at 1-866-244-8796 - any of our Audio Experts would be pleased to help.

Kind regards,

Second E-Mail:
Hi Paul,

The M80s will be version 3 which will be available in approximately 2 weeks. The VP180 is now available and would match to any of our speakers.


So, I say ok, I should wait for the version 3. Axiom sent me two e-mails on June 17th giving me the link to the trade-in program and telling me version 3 will be released in two weeks.
That is at least major mis-representation and could be viewed as fraud. I went to the trade-in link and put my serial number, etc. and my new purchase and printed it out (I have it) in order to place my order on the version 3. (The link goes to the aution now.) If I would have known the order would have included version 3 (except maybe the magnetic grill), I would have placed my order then. The e-mails were just last week!!

Very mis-leading.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 09:11 AM

Paul, I'm confident that the Axiom folks aren't out to get you.

Why not just give them a call and explain the situation?
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 09:23 AM

Yes, call them. They had to remove the link at some point. State the same information you did in your post. It is not because they removed the link that they cannot honor the email that was sent to you. Call first, post later! \:\) Hope everything gets resolved to your satisfaction.
Posted by: PaulHa

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 09:35 AM

"Call first, post later."
That is good advice. I will do that.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 10:22 AM

 Originally Posted By: Ian
RickF,

The release of the new VP180 is what prompted us to also release Version 3 now. The original intention was to release Version 3 in early September but we realized it would be silly to bring out a new model in Version 2 and then change it to Version 3 in less than 3 months.


Purely out of curiousity, what prompted Axiom's decision to release the VP180 before the rest of the v3 lineup?
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 10:28 AM

 Originally Posted By: PaulHa
"Call first, post later."
That is good advice. I will do that.


Paul, I think you will find Axiom very accommodating. Unlike most companies, Axiom actually chooses to exercise common sense and respect when it comes to customer service.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 10:46 AM

HTnut, because Sroode forced them to. \:\)
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 10:49 AM

I agree, instead of broadcasting this to the world maybe pick up the phone. Like we can help you anyway. \:\)
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 11:14 AM

 Originally Posted By: sirquack
HTnut, because Sroode forced them to. \:\)


Oh, I'm glad they did because I was anxiously waiting as well! I'm just imagining an even bigger splash, though, if the new v3 lineup was announced along with a new monster centre channel.
Posted by: PaulHa

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 11:35 AM

I agree. I guess I was just venting.
How can I delete my post?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 11:39 AM

At this point, you probably can't. You could try editing it, but there is something like a 30 minute or 1 hour timeout on editing posts.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 11:42 AM

not a big deal, I would not lose any sleep over it...Either way I'm sure Axiom will work with you.. Kinda like a sub crossover having a slope and not cutting off at the freq response. I'm sure they will transition with the customers.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 11:48 AM

 Originally Posted By: sirquack
HTnut, because Sroode forced them to. \:\)


Hah, no forcing, just a polite request. ;\)

By the way the magnetic grille is awesome!
Posted by: Philippe

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 12:12 PM

SRoode no more talking about the magnectic grille pls \:\)
I had few weeks ago the the RX6 from monitor audio who have those magnetic grilles, very sharp. I am glad Axiom has take this idea in thier speaker.
Posted by: turbo16v

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 10:48 PM

Am I the only one that is interested in a v2 to v3 upgraded crossover option??
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 11:23 PM

Axiom recommends that if you do that, you also change the drivers.
Posted by: turbo16v

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 11:25 PM

did you read that somewhere? or were you directly told that from axiom? \:\)
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 11:26 PM

Directly told. We were the ones who encouraged them to offer upgrade kits.
Posted by: turbo16v

Re: Version 3 - 06/25/10 11:32 PM

that would be sweet \:D
Posted by: Spoiler

Re: Version 3 - 06/26/10 11:36 AM


I thought though that the white dust cap drivers were identical to the black dust cap drivers in terms of specs. The tweeters are the only new components that are a 'new animal'. Is this correct?

If it is, then wouldn't one just need to purchase the new crossover and tweets to upgrade to the V3 sound?


Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 06/26/10 04:33 PM

They're identical to the black dust cap drivers made in the last 6-12 months, I believe.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Version 3 - 06/26/10 09:15 PM

Any speculation on how much an upgrade kit for the M80's might cost? When I'm able to finally upgrade to a vp180 the m80 upgrade kit will probably sell to the wife better....
Posted by: bdpf

Re: Version 3 - 06/26/10 11:25 PM

Email Axiom with your serial numbers and they'll tell you what differs from yours to the V3s but if you need all the drivers + crossovers I think you would be better off selling your M80s on the Axiom auction and use the money towards the V3s.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 01:25 AM

My m80s are def all v2 components as they are over 2.5 years old
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 10:30 AM

When I say "upgrade kits," I mean the parts that Brent posted a few days ago. Total up your number of drivers and the crossovers...
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 01:00 PM

Must have missed that post... hmmmm. digging back thru the thread.

edit: can't seem to find what you are referring to.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 02:00 PM

Different thread, then. I think Brent posted something about the prices.
Posted by: TonyMc

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 02:13 PM

Am I the only one a little put off by this?
I mean I just bought mine in April. I can understand if I would have bought a "off the rack" pair of M60s, but I bought a custom set.
A heads up would have been nice. I would have waited the couple months for the upgrade seeing as I had to wait a month for the custom build anyway.
I do realize that I have the v3 drivers(black caps) and crossovers, but being so close to the official changeover I would have liked the option.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 02:15 PM

It is always a difficult thing to decide how to manage a new release. Somebody will get caught no matter what.
Posted by: TonyMc

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 02:20 PM

Originally Posted By: fredk
It is always a difficult thing to decide how to manage a new release. Somebody will get caught no matter what.


Well I guess I did.
I'll have to get a hold of Axiom tomorrow and ask if I can get a written confirmation that I indeed have the v3 drivers and crossovers so I have documented proof in case I ever sell these.
I mean don't get me wrong. I love my M60s. They did a great job on the finish. They're beautiful and sound the way they look, but like I said...
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 02:26 PM

And if they had posted about the change in April? The people who bought in February would be put out because they didn't get a heads up then.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 02:29 PM


It's a no win situation.
Posted by: TonyMc

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 02:29 PM

Originally Posted By: kcarlile
And if they had posted about the change in April? The people who bought in February would be put out because they didn't get a heads up then.


That's not the point!
I called them to order a "custom pair". They could have said, hey, we have a new version coming up Very shortly would you like to wait?
Am I wrong?
Posted by: Wid

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 02:32 PM


If you have all the other components of the V3s and are upset about the drivers.........call Axiom and see if they would work with you on replacements.
Posted by: RickF

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 02:34 PM

Isn't the magnetic grills and the silver dust covers the only difference between your speakers and the new v3's? Sonically, wouldn't the speakers be identical?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 02:37 PM

So, you paid your money to get custom V2 speakers, and you actually got some V3 attributes... and you're upset that you didn't get more?

Anybody who buys something must be aware that at some point a newer version is coming out. Sometimes that's a year away, sometimes it's a week. Rather than seeing this glass as half-empty, yes, you could actually be glad that you got more than what you were expecting at the moment you committed to purchase.
Posted by: TonyMc

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 02:58 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
So, you paid your money to get custom V2 speakers, and you actually got some V3 attributes... and you're upset that you didn't get more?

Anybody who buys something must be aware that at some point a newer version is coming out. Sometimes that's a year away, sometimes it's a week. Rather than seeing this glass as half-empty, yes, you could actually be glad that you got more than what you were expecting at the moment you committed to purchase.


It doesn't matter how you spin it Mark. A year is a whole lot further away than two months when it comes to product change over. If I did that to my customers I would be out of work and I've been doing what I do for a lot of years.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 03:06 PM


I have the older M80tis (7 years old), I bought them right before the V2s came out. I mean it was right before and I was never told about the upgraded V2s.

I can't say I was ever upset as am still very satisfied with my purchase.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 03:08 PM

It's not spin. It's an opinion that simply doesn't match yours.

Look, some companies advertise or "leak" that they have new product being released and some don't. As often as I see that with Apple or Microsoft or technology in general, I DON'T see it with, for example, speaker companies.

Maybe you'll think this a silly example, but I went grocery shopping this morning. I bought some Breyer's ice cream. If I go back tomorrow, do you think I'll be upset that they had a newer flavor in stock that they didn't have today?

No.

I decided to purchase it, knowing what it was, for that price at that time. The exchange of my money was based upon what I knew of the product at the time.

In your case, you got BETTER than that, because you actually received some V3 benefits BEYOND the product you were agreeing to purchase.

It's not spin. It's an opinion that simply doesn't match yours.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 03:14 PM

Iím actually a bit put off by the review Ian posted because of what it implies about the M80v2:

Quote:

ďThe changes that you've made to the M80s are not subtle. It is that different! The first thing that I noticed was that the sound stage increased, dramatically. I describe it now as voluminous, wide and deep but at the same time, minutely precise. It's like the curtains were pulled back away from the stage. The sound field increased in all dimensions. I especially hear a lot more spatial depth. It's much easier to locate the position of performers in the sound field. The sound is especially seductive. It wraps around you.

Translation: The M80v2 has a thin soundstage lacking depth and precision while sounding somewhat muffled.

Quote:

The sound seems much more uniform over all frequencies. . . . This is how I feel about these speakers. My impression is that you've particularly smoothed out the transition between the mid range and highs.

Translation: The M80v2s exhibit an uneven frequency response particularly when transitioning between the highs and mids.

Quote:

I am particularly blown away by the high end of these speakers. There's a new precision and GREATLY increased detail in the sound. . . . I'm hearing the 'core' of the sound with all music through this system like never before. Solo instruments and voices sound live, with minute detail in the sound. . . . I listened to a lot of music louder than one probably should and the sound was not fatiguing. There's so much space around the upper frequencies. . . . Additionally, there's a nice big fat, spacious area in the mids. Also of note are trumpets and brass. Rather than going 'ouch' on a loud passage, you get chills. Again, 'expansive' comes to mind. . . .

Translation: On the M80v2 the high end lacks precision/detail giving the sound a ďrecorded/reproducedĒ quality. Listening to them is fatiguing and even painful during loud passages. Also, the mids sound a bit sucked out.

About a year back the Skiing Ninja made similar comments on the Tweak City forums about a new crossover he designed for an AV123 speaker. The implication to the owners was that the speakers they presently had sounded like crap but would be greatly improved by replacing the crossover. The Ninja was taken to task by the speakerís owners for the way he made those comments. This review about the M80v3 compared to the M80v2 gives me the same bad vibe. IMO singing the praises of the M80v3 could have been done more subtly and w/o essentially putting down the M80v2 in the process. I know that was not the intent but it was the result.

Note that Iím not criticizing Axiom for improving itís speakers nor wanting to share their enthusiasm for the improvements. I just preferred the way the transition from ďtiĒ to ďv2Ē was handled (more subtly). This was handled much more like other companies do when rolling out a new speakers model even though the improvement process (incrementally upgrading) was still the same. Sure it will all blow over shortly and the hoopla will likely generate more sales than it looses but it moves Axiom one step closer to being like ďall the other companiesĒ IMO. Offering upgrade kits does mitigate this somewhat though at that price IMO it opens the door to reevaluating other brands which one can surmise have also undergone improvements over time.
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 03:19 PM

It's a reasonable opinion and a good way of looking at things, but I can understand being soured by the timing. I wouldn't blame anyone, but I'd mutter about my luck, no question.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 03:22 PM

I agree with you, Dean. I thought about getting the VP180 but I couldn't help but wonder if there might be a timbral difference with my existing V2's(M80).
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 03:30 PM

Tony, when I purchased my M80's in 07, I emailed Axiom and asked them if they where going to be releasing a model or something better than the current M80. I gave them a timeframe (a couple months I believe) and they replied something to the extent of "yes, but not in the timeframe I gave them. I thought it was nice that they even replied. So, I ordered my M80's and I'm glad I did because if I was waiting for an upgrade, I would have been waiting until now AFAIK.

Long story short- I bet if you inquired as I did, Axiom most likely would have told you. There's culpability on the end users behalf also.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 03:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Adrian
I agree with you, Dean. I thought about getting the VP180 but I couldn't help but wonder if there might be a timbral difference with my existing V2's(M80).


Same here Adrian. The last time Sean was over I even discussed with him the possibility of getting a VP180 to mount above my screen. Then for movies and concert DVDs I would run dual centers, a vertical M80 under and a horizontal VP180 above. Since I do like the wider dispersion of a horizontal center for those uses plus the ďwall-of-soundĒ having over/under centers gives. Perhaps for those uses a slight timbre mismatch might not be as noticeable especially when blended with a M80v2.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 03:33 PM

From the reviews of the M80v2/VP180 combos out there (I can just about guarantee that Steve and Rick don't have v3 M80s), I think it would probably be fine. However, you're more sensitive than most about these sorts of things.

As for the Ninja, his tests were performed on M80tis.

And there was a similar sturm und drang about the v2s as well.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 03:40 PM


I'm using a new VP150, purchased a month or two ago, it should have the V3 components and to me it blends very good with the older tis.
Posted by: TonyMc

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 03:40 PM

Originally Posted By: wheelz999
Tony, when I purchased my M80's in 07, I emailed Axiom and asked them if they where going to be releasing a model or something better than the current M80. I gave them a timeframe (a couple months I believe) and they replied something to the extent of "yes, but not in the timeframe I gave them. I thought it was nice that they even replied. So, I ordered my M80's and I'm glad I did because if I was waiting for an upgrade, I would have been waiting until now AFAIK.

Long story short- I bet if you inquired as I did, Axiom most likely would have told you. There's culpability on the end users behalf also.


Fair enough, but there will be no repeat business from this end user.
Sorry.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 03:42 PM

Tony, we're not reps of the company.

If you're dissatisfied, by all means call the company tomorrow. My opinion doesn't mean sh*t around here, so don't take it like I'm speaking for them before declaring your dissatisfaction with THEIR service!

You brought your opinion to a public forum, and you got divergent opinions. That doesn't mean anything in the big scheme of things.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 03:42 PM

I think before you make that statement to us (ie, their fans and customers), you should talk to Axiom. You may be able to come to an accommodation.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 03:44 PM


Call them now, I've called on Sunday before.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 03:45 PM

Originally Posted By: kcarlile
From the reviews of the M80v2/VP180 combos out there (I can just about guarantee that Steve and Rick don't have v3 M80s), I think it would probably be fine. However, you're more sensitive than most about these sorts of things.

As for the Ninja, his tests were performed on M80tis.

And there was a similar sturm und drang about the v2s as well.



I will reread the reviews posted about the VP180 but so far I havenít read anything very extensive yet. However, I will ask my specific questions in the VP180 thread where it would be more appropriate.

For the record the Ninja reference I made was not about Axioms speakers but about AV123 speakers.

I understand that with change there will always be some consternation. My issue is mostly about the wording of the ďv2Ē vs ďv3Ē review. Iím not a sales person but I imagine the last thing I would do in trying to sell a new product is effectively criticize the owners present choice. There are ways to talk about improvements more subtly while still conveying the same information.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 03:46 PM

Originally Posted By: wid

I'm using a new VP150, purchased a month or two ago, it should have the V3 components and to me it blends very good with the older tis.



Thanks for the feedback Rick.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 04:50 PM

My M80s are the v2's and the VP180 blends in very nicely with them. I really do not notice a substantial timbre difference between them. That's not to say however that v2 M80s and v3 M80s sound almost similar on a blind test (I have not heard the v3 M80s, so I don't know).
Posted by: sonicfox

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 04:52 PM

Originally Posted By: wid

I'm using a new VP150, purchased a month or two ago, it should have the V3 components and to me it blends very good with the older tis.



I'm assuming (or rather, hoping) the opposite would be true as well...that the OLDER VP150(ti version) would also blend well with the new V3s.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 05:06 PM

I guess I can understand some frustration on the change, but to be honest (and owning a front set of mixed V2s and V3s) I can tell you that I cannot really tell that much of a timbre or overall sound difference between the VP180 (v3) and my M80s (v2).

I invited my wife down to the man-cave last night to listen to some music. I had recently recalibrated my system for the back center seat because the VP180 was just so much more powerful than the VP150. In the end, I had to take the rears down a bit, and set the VP180 to the same level as the M80s. The sound was mesmerizing. Even sitting in the back row left and right seats, you could hear the centers coming from the center channel. The surround sounded better in the back row too becuase of my surround and rear speaker placement. After a couple of songs, my wife said it sounded like a totally different system and she really enjoyed it. We went down again this afternoon (at her request) to listen some more. It was a very enjoyable experience.

In the end, as others have said, technology is always changing. I bought my Denon AVR-3806 a couple of months before the AVR-3808 was released, and that was a MAJOR change. With the Denon, I had no option of upgrading, with the Axioms, you do.

PS - I enjoy my system thoroughly as it is.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 05:12 PM

Originally Posted By: wid

If you have all the other components of the V3s and are upset about the drivers.........call Axiom and see if they would work with you on replacements.

Even better yet, trade with someone who wants the VP180 to match their current mains.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 05:13 PM

Originally Posted By: sonicfox
Originally Posted By: wid

I'm using a new VP150, purchased a month or two ago, it should have the V3 components and to me it blends very good with the older tis.



I'm assuming (or rather, hoping) the opposite would be true as well...that the OLDER VP150(ti version) would also blend well with the new V3s.


I would have to think so Mary.
Posted by: kmcalvano

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 05:58 PM

I believe that they should be giving out a discount upgrade package to existing Axiom customers. I have 2 of their HT setups and while I do love my speakers, I can't help but feeling a bit screwed in a way. Upon visual inspection, my VP180 clearly has different tweeters than that of my M80's(original Ti version). Whether or not a difference can be heard, I'd find it hard to believe that speakers with different components can be called timber matched.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 06:01 PM

KMCalvano, there would have been a tweeter difference between your VP180 and your M80tis if the v3s had never existed. There was a tweeter change between the v2s and the tis.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 06:52 PM

Originally Posted By: grunt
Iím actually a bit put off by the review Ian posted because of what it implies about the M80v2:

Quote:

ďThe changes that you've made to the M80s are not subtle. It is that different! The first thing that I noticed was that the sound stage increased, dramatically. I describe it now as voluminous, wide and deep but at the same time, minutely precise. It's like the curtains were pulled back away from the stage. The sound field increased in all dimensions. I especially hear a lot more spatial depth. It's much easier to locate the position of performers in the sound field. The sound is especially seductive. It wraps around you.

Translation: The M80v2 has a thin soundstage lacking depth and precision while sounding somewhat muffled.

Quote:

The sound seems much more uniform over all frequencies. . . . This is how I feel about these speakers. My impression is that you've particularly smoothed out the transition between the mid range and highs.

Translation: The M80v2s exhibit an uneven frequency response particularly when transitioning between the highs and mids.

Quote:

I am particularly blown away by the high end of these speakers. There's a new precision and GREATLY increased detail in the sound. . . . I'm hearing the 'core' of the sound with all music through this system like never before. Solo instruments and voices sound live, with minute detail in the sound. . . . I listened to a lot of music louder than one probably should and the sound was not fatiguing. There's so much space around the upper frequencies. . . . Additionally, there's a nice big fat, spacious area in the mids. Also of note are trumpets and brass. Rather than going 'ouch' on a loud passage, you get chills. Again, 'expansive' comes to mind. . . .

Translation: On the M80v2 the high end lacks precision/detail giving the sound a ďrecorded/reproducedĒ quality. Listening to them is fatiguing and even painful during loud passages. Also, the mids sound a bit sucked out.

About a year back the Skiing Ninja made similar comments on the Tweak City forums about a new crossover he designed for an AV123 speaker. The implication to the owners was that the speakers they presently had sounded like crap but would be greatly improved by replacing the crossover. The Ninja was taken to task by the speakerís owners for the way he made those comments. This review about the M80v3 compared to the M80v2 gives me the same bad vibe. IMO singing the praises of the M80v3 could have been done more subtly and w/o essentially putting down the M80v2 in the process. I know that was not the intent but it was the result.

Note that Iím not criticizing Axiom for improving itís speakers nor wanting to share their enthusiasm for the improvements. I just preferred the way the transition from ďtiĒ to ďv2Ē was handled (more subtly). This was handled much more like other companies do when rolling out a new speakers model even though the improvement process (incrementally upgrading) was still the same. Sure it will all blow over shortly and the hoopla will likely generate more sales than it looses but it moves Axiom one step closer to being like ďall the other companiesĒ IMO. Offering upgrade kits does mitigate this somewhat though at that price IMO it opens the door to reevaluating other brands which one can surmise have also undergone improvements over time.



You bring up some excellent points ONCE AGAIN grunt. Not even being an M80 owner I was kind of put off by the puff piece response from Axiom "touting" the M80 v3 over the v2 version. Its not appropriate to Axioms philosophy of remaining objective. If it was complaints being posted, then subjective opinions on the product would be scrutinized.

I think most of the questions and concerns that are being raised could have been avoided by better communication from Axiom and the 4 man council regarding the transition to the v3 and explaining specific objective modifications to atleast its existing customer whether through their mailing list or some general announcement in the newsletter or forum. Still to this point the modifications implemented in v3 are quite vague. I am sure people are happy with their products no matter what version they have but the v3 execution to the public was poor IMO. Sorry folks. cry

The fact that even new VP180 owners didn't know they were getting a v3 speaker with cosmetic changes that were different from their current speakers, I just have to shake my head at. cry


Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 06:56 PM

I am very pleased that axiom has released the V3's. I would be disappointed if axiom wasn't releasing new products and improving existing ones. After all, if they weren't in the business of improving their products we would all be stuck with ti's smile
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 06:59 PM

I suppose the improvements really were significant or they wouldn't have discontinued the trade-up program. Now it's, "Good luck auctioning your outdated, under-performing gear!" Ha ha. That's me being a bit extreme, but I wouldn't guess that the timing is a coincidence. As I said before, I'm glad they're moving forward with the performance and look of their products. I simply need to be richer to keep up with it.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 07:20 PM

Take this for what it is, a biased opinion, but I'm confident the VP180 will work equally well with v2 OR v3 series products. Extensive listening was performed against both the M80v2 and M80v3 while the VP180 was being developed and I feel it's an excellent match with either.

Andrew
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 07:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Dr.House

You bring up some excellent points ONCE AGAIN grunt. Not even being an M80 owner I was kind of put off by the puff piece response from Axiom "touting" the M80 v3 over the v2 version. Its not appropriate to Axioms philosophy of remaining objective. If it was complaints being posted, then subjective opinions on the product would be scrutinized.

Well I held off as long as I could posting my comments on that review hoping that someone else would take a swing at it, but I bit my tongue (so to speak) as long as I could and finally felt compelled to say something. I agree if someone had complained several people would have chimed in.

Quote:

I think most of the questions and concerns that are being raised could have been avoided by better communication from Axiom and the 4 man council regarding the transition to the v3 and explaining specific objective modifications made. Still to this point the modifications are quite vague. I am sure people are happy with their products no matter what version they have but the v3 execution to the public was poor IMO. Sorry folks. 


I agree that Axiom could have communicated better but I hesitate to draw the customer council into rollout discussion. Iím not 100% clear on their mandate but hope that it is strictly to act as a sounding board for Axiom and not a conduit of information from Axiom to the forum. IMO that marginalizes them as ďmembersĒ by turning them into ďspokesmen.ď

Quote:

The fact that even new VP180 owners didn't know they were getting a v3 speaker with cosmetic changes that were different from their current speakers, I just have to shake my head at. 


Had I purchased one I would have liked the option to have the older style drivers and grill shipped to match my existing speakers. Perhaps it was calculated that the majority wouldnít care about that and anyone who did would be taken care of on a case-by-case basis.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 07:30 PM

Originally Posted By: CV

Now it's, "Good luck auctioning your outdated, under-performing gear!" Ha ha.

I was thinking that very thing when I read the review I commented on earlier. Seems sort of silly to offer an audition of the ďv2Ē or ďtiĒ in light of the comments made. Perhaps future reviews will indicate less stark differences otherwise I donít see the point in offering any more auditions as it wouldnít do justice to the ďv3s.Ē Not that Iíve done an audition in awhile anyway unless Sean counts. wink
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 08:09 PM

SRoode, why not go the pre-pro route? then you can just change out the processor.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 08:49 PM

Quote:
I agree that Axiom could have communicated better but I hesitate to draw the customer council into rollout discussion. Iím not 100% clear on their mandate but hope that it is strictly to act as a sounding board for Axiom and not a conduit of information from Axiom to the forum. IMO that marginalizes them as ďmembersĒ by turning them into ďspokesmen.ď


You have the right of it. We're not Axiom representatives, and they use us as sounding boards. In the interest of full disclosure, I raised concerns about the drivers in the VP180 vs. the existing drivers. Of course, my fears were in the opposite direction. I wanted to be sure they weren't building the pre-order VP180s as v2s...

As for the auction stuff, I can see why Axiom's doing it, and they did discuss it with us. Someone's got to sell the old stuff, and there's been a lot of interest in a forum for buying and selling here.

Some people seem to be taking what I and other members of the council are saying as official Axiom policy or communication. What I say is of course filtered through my knowledge and relationship with Axiom, but it is also based on what may be a flawed memory of our conversations, passed through my own filters and biases.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 09:12 PM

Originally Posted By: kcarlile

You have the right of it. We're not Axiom representatives, and they use us as sounding boards. In the interest of full disclosure, I raised concerns about the drivers in the VP180 vs. the existing drivers. Of course, my fears were in the opposite direction. I wanted to be sure they weren't building the pre-order VP180s as v2s...


Thanks for clarifying the role of the customer council. I do think it somewhat natural that some people, especially those with lots of experience in other forums, might get confused as to what the customer council members are responsible for. Some forums use members as moderators and information conduits in their forums. Adding to the confusion there have been a couple comments from council members ďhintingĒ at things to come which blurs the line between sounding-board and spokesman. IMO what is said in the council should stay in the council no exceptions.

I agree that your fears were warranted about the VP180 being released as a ďv2.Ē I imagine most would prefer the most up-to-date speaker, however for those who preferred and ascetic match some discussion could have been avoided if the rollout had included some sort of comments about whether driver/grill matching would be accommodated. OTOH in the bigger scheme itís probably a small issue.

Quote:

As for the auction stuff, I can see why Axiom's doing it, and they did discuss it with us. Someone's got to sell the old stuff, and there's been a lot of interest in a forum for buying and selling here.


Clearly the ďtrade-upĒ programs was no longer going to be viable and the auction does offer an alternative specific to Axiom as opposed to the larger online sales sites.

Who knows I might be able to pick up some more M80s on the cheap for wide, surround and back. Look out Onn I might be catching up with you. wink



Posted by: onn

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 09:28 PM

Originally Posted By: grunt
Who knows I might be able to pick up some more M80s on the cheap for wide, surround and back. Look out Onn I might be catching up with you. wink


I thought you passed me a long time ago!
Your system is impressive.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 09:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
Take this for what it is, a biased opinion, but I'm confident the VP180 will work equally well with v2 OR v3 series products. Extensive listening was performed against both the M80v2 and M80v3 while the VP180 was being developed and I feel it's an excellent match with either.

Andrew


Thanks for your feedback Andrew I missed your post before and just happened to catch now.

When I bought my M80 center back living in my apartment I did so specifically because I was afraid that incremental upgrades might over time produce a speaker that didnít quite match the first M80s I bought. I had expected to leave it boxed up until I moved to this house but as luck would have it I was actually able to use it in the apartment.
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 10:05 PM

Didn't realize the EP800 was so huge till I saw onn's system pictures. By the way it really rocks!!!
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 10:36 PM

Dean. If You bought a McLaren road car that you thought was supercool and they released a newer better more supercool model would your old McLaren now be a piece of junk, or would it just be slightly less supercool?

The only thing I read into Ian's announcement is that the new M80s are noticeably better than the V2, nothing more, nothing less.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 10:48 PM

Originally Posted By: review

The first thing that I noticed was that the sound stage increased, dramatically.

It's like the curtains were pulled back away from the stage.

The sound seems much more uniform over all frequencies.

My impression is that you've particularly smoothed out the transition between the mid range and highs.

Rather than going 'ouch' on a loud passage, you get chills.


We will have to disagree on this Fred. The above comments are not IMO a ringing endorsement of the product being compared to.
Posted by: LT61

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 10:56 PM

I'm kind of surprised at all the squaking over the new "V3" upgrades. I see the points made, but most commenting, have V2, speakers, and new crossovers already, and I doubt there would be "huge" improvements. I have M60ti's from 2004, and I suspect I would find at least, subtle improvements to my older M60s with the V3 upgrades. I do find it odd to use that e-mail to "review" the new V3. It's ironic to me, because review styles like that one , with the "blown aways" etc. are usually scorned here.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 11:00 PM

Dean, you were the one who told me the M80s sounded great compared to the Senhauser headphones you have. You also did a lot of comparison shopping and felt that, though there were better sounding speakers out there, Axiom offered the best value.

Have either of those two things somehow changed?

Context is also a usefull thing. I am willing to bet that Ian is sensitive to things in these speakers that we would never hear. There is also probably a reason that Alan is the marketing guy and Ian the designer.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 11:05 PM

Here is another analogy for you. In the '60s my dad bought a Valiant. That thing was an amazing car. Rock solid, for the time. I would not trade my car for something with the level of riliability of that Valiant for anything. Cars have improved since then.

Its no different with the V3. This is one of those glass half empty things. You now see the V2 as a half empty glass. I see the V3 as a bigger glass.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go listen to my glass overflow with beautiful sound. wink
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 11:13 PM

Originally Posted By: fredk

Dean, you were the one who told me the M80s sounded great compared to the Senhauser headphones you have. You also did a lot of comparison shopping and felt that, though there were better sounding speakers out there, Axiom offered the best value.

Have either of those two things somehow changed?

Context is also a usefull thing. I am willing to bet that Ian is sensitive to things in these speakers that we would never hear. There is also probably a reason that Alan is the marketing guy and Ian the designer.


I am commenting on the review (context) and not my opinion of my speakers. Nothing has changed about my opinion of my M80s or the value they offer, nor do I have any intention of upgrading at this time.

Also note that the review I am commenting on was not written by Ian only posted by him.

Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 11:20 PM

OK, I'll agree that it was a bit of an odd post from a marketing perspective.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 11:20 PM

Originally Posted By: fredk
Here is another analogy for you. In the '60s my dad bought a Valiant. That thing was an amazing car. Rock solid, for the time. I would not trade my car for something with the level of riliability of that Valiant for anything. Cars have improved since then.

Its no different with the V3. This is one of those glass half empty things. You now see the V2 as a half empty glass. I see the V3 as a bigger glass.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go listen to my glass overflow with beautiful sound. wink


Iím not sure why you think I have a problem with Axiom improving itís speakers. My comments have been restricted to the impression that the review gives nothing more. I think itís great that they are making improvements itís one of the reasons I bought Axiom because of itís design philosophy and extensiveness of their own engineering and testing. Perhaps you need to re-read what Iíve said since I have in no way disparaged the M80v2 which I happily own. wink
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 06/27/10 11:22 PM

Originally Posted By: fredk
OK, I'll agree that it was a bit of an odd post from a marketing perspective.


Yes thatís exactly the point Iím trying to make.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 12:14 AM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
SRoode, why not go the pre-pro route? then you can just change out the processor.
I would say due to the fact most pre/pros cost more than the 38XX series ever did (not to mention the added cost of an amp) and back then(2006/2007)lacked HDMI altogether from what I can remember before I bought my 3808.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 12:21 AM

Originally Posted By: grunt

I am commenting on the review (context) and not my opinion of my speakers. Nothing has changed about my opinion of my M80s or the value they offer, nor do I have any intention of upgrading at this time.

Also note that the review I am commenting on was not written by Ian only posted by him.


Dean, I'm happy to read that clarification--I had lost some track of what you were referring to, and in amongst the background noise of the complaints and whatnot, I misinterpreted what you were saying. My apologies.

As to the customer council leaking things, what can I say--we're excited by this stuff! It's hard to stay entirely quiet, sometimes.
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 12:33 AM

I keep browsing through the product pictures, and I'm liking the new look of the drivers more. I look forward to owning some v3 stuff later this year.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 12:39 AM

Originally Posted By: TonyMc
Fair enough, but there will be no repeat business from this end user.
Sorry.


Is this based on principle, or Axiom's failure to come to a satisfactory solution? I'm just wondering if you've actually tried contacting them with a proposal of some sort. All I can say is give them a chance wink
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 01:25 AM




Originally Posted By: kcarlile

Dean, I'm happy to read that clarification--I had lost some track of what you were referring to, and in amongst the background noise of the complaints and whatnot, I misinterpreted what you were saying. My apologies.

As to the customer council leaking things, what can I say--we're excited by this stuff! It's hard to stay entirely quiet, sometimes.


Thanks for the apology Ken but I never realized we were even out of sync. Please realize that I donít get all worked up over most things especially internet forum stuff. Nor do I change my opinion of things I like, such as speakers, because a newer version has comes out. As I mentioned in a previous post I actually bought my M80 center back in the apartment not to use but to ensure I wouldnít get a different sounding speaker because of the inevitable upgrades should I have waited until later. That was the same reason I picked up a full 7.1 package even though I ended up switching back to 5.1 until I moved. I just wanted to make sure the speakers I had were as closely matched a possible.

I was actually a little pissed off when Axiom changed the amp on the EP500 w/o warning since I figured I would end up buying another one to run dual subs. Well that was until experimenting with Seanís subs has lead me to believe that dual subs is a non-starter in my room.

Cheers,
Dean
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 01:55 AM

I'm not so good at isolating myself from internet emotions...
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 05:25 AM

Originally Posted By: kcarlile
I'm not so good at isolating myself from internet emotions...


Iím that way with the news. Always something about someone screwing over someone else. Makes me want to hurt people but not be able to act on it which I find very frustrating. One of the best things I ever did in my life was to almost completely stop watching/listening/reading the news (except sometimes NPR/BBC when driving). My frustration level is way down and Iíve recovered what I now consider to have been a hour or more of wasted life every day. If anything really important happens I figure Iíll find out about it. wink

Two of the other best things Iíve done was to throw away my watch (about 25 years ago) and not own a cell phone. Two less things to control my life. wink
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 10:06 AM

I hear you about the news. As soon as I took general news stuff out of my rss feed, I became happier.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 12:35 PM

I'm wearing rose colored classes too.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 01:25 PM

Wow.... What a mixed bag a whining, crying, bitching and fanfare.

Axiom is damned if they do, damned if they don't. The customer counsel membors are damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 02:00 PM

All I know is that my system with 4 year old M60s sounds a lot better with a v3 VP180 than it did with an older VP100 wink
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 02:17 PM

Originally Posted By: michael_d
Wow.... What a mixed bag a whining, crying, bitching and fanfare.

Axiom is damned if they do, damned if they don't. The customer counsel membors are damned if they do, damned if they don't.


Want some cheese with your whine? wink
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 03:32 PM

You're confusing observing with whining. Maybe you're projecting?
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 03:41 PM

Originally Posted By: michael_d
You're confusing observing with whining. Maybe you're projecting?


No your whining about other peopleís behavior just like when you left before. wink But thank you for sharing your ďobservationsĒ of others with the rest of us since it adds so much value to the topics being discussed.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 03:55 PM

Originally Posted By: grunt
Want some cheese with your whine? wink

Yes, but without the spiders please.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 04:07 PM

Originally Posted By: grunt
Originally Posted By: michael_d
You're confusing observing with whining. Maybe you're projecting?


No your whining about other peopleís behavior just like when you left before. wink But thank you for sharing your ďobservationsĒ of others with the rest of us since it adds so much value to the topics being discussed.


I would like some of those really dry pepperettes as well to go along with my whine. wink But yes, complaining about customers complaining is a very counter-productive approach, especially from a member of the council. You would think there would be a bit more respect shown for those who expressed concerns in this thread.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 04:57 PM

Originally Posted By: grunt
Originally Posted By: michael_d
You're confusing observing with whining. Maybe you're projecting?


No your whining about other peopleís behavior just like when you left before. wink But thank you for sharing your ďobservationsĒ of others with the rest of us since it adds so much value to the topics being discussed.


Dean, did you happen to watch the news today? grin
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 05:41 PM

There's an updated FR graph for the M80 v3, looks very good!
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 06:09 PM

Here's a quick link to it.

All I can say is wow!
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 06:09 PM

Thanks, I could never figure out how to do that frown
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 06:11 PM

Try Products, M80v3, Specs, Frequency Graph.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 06:14 PM

I meant the linky.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 06:15 PM

And yes, wow was my first reaction too smile
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 07:23 PM

If you take a few seconds (well, ok, a little more) to stretch out the NRC graph to match the current one from axiom, you will notice that, with one exception the two graphs are really not that different. As the specs indicate, there are a couple of DB added to the bottom end and the area from 70 Hz to 200 Hz is smoothed out a little.

From there to 7K looks about the same. The 2-3 db ride from 7 KHz to 14 KHz is gone. The biggest change is that the dippy-doodle at 18-20 KHz. I seem to remember that one of those last two was considered a measuerment artifact, but I can't remember which.

Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 07:27 PM

OK, I'm seeing some of that forum posting wonkyness, so I split my post in two.

Overall the differences on the graph presented are subtle. I would be curious to see off axis measurements to see what changes are there, but thats OK, I can bug Ian and Alan in September.

I really hope we get a chance to compare the v2 to v3 speakers at the Anniversary get together.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 08:18 PM

Like Larry and Michael, I'm a little amazed at all the "woe is me" talk, are we in high school people? I guess you can't make everyone happy. If people decide to jump ship, so be it, but I would think they would be happy Axiom is making strides to better their products and continue to be the best bang for the buck in high end audio.

The same thing happened when we went from Ti's to V2. Everyone was crying about why was I not told, I just ordered my speakers a few months ago...yada yada yada. I guess you can't make everyone happy.

I suppose I could pi$$ and moan that my current 7.3 setup is only a V2 and how much money I've spent, or the 7.1 system that preceded them were only Ti's and why Axiom didn't tell me about the soon to be released V2's at the time. But, I am happy my M22's and onwall W22's are V3. I'm just happy to be an Axiom customer. Life is good.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 08:30 PM

I love what I have, but I can certainly understand that if I bought I custom real wood finish system a couple of months ago that I may be a little put off (the system would cost several thousands of dollars, and that's a lot of cash for any speaker system). I would have expected a heads up to wait a bit. I think if these very few customers contacted Axiom directly, something could be worked out.

But, for the others like me, I love what I have and have no complaints.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 08:37 PM

If the guts were not V3, I can understand your point, but missing magnetic grills, whoopti do.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 08:41 PM

To some it is, to some it isn't. If the buyer was contacted ahead of time, then he/she could make their decision to buy now or wait. Listen, I'm really only talking about real wood custom finishes here... It's a big investment. I would have expected a heads up.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 08:43 PM

And, btw, the same people who spend almost double for a custom real wood finish are EXACTLY the type of people who would appreciate the magnetic grille (IMHO).
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 08:46 PM

That's my thinking. Now that there are magnetic grills, I'm thinking more seriously about a custom finish. Before I was going to request my speakers be built without the grill mount points, but was worried that maybe in the (distant) future I'd want more protection from little fingers.
Posted by: onn

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 09:06 PM

Originally Posted By: SRoode
And, btw, the same people who spend almost double for a custom real wood finish are EXACTLY the type of people who would appreciate the magnetic grille (IMHO).


I know I sure would have liked the magnetic grills. But I love my setup and until I feel the need for a clean front for my speakers I'll just enjoy what I have.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 09:08 PM

Originally Posted By: grunt

No your whining about other peopleís behavior just like when you left before. wink But thank you for sharing your ďobservationsĒ of others with the rest of us since it adds so much value to the topics being discussed.


This is nothing like before. You have a unique memory. And just how much value do you think your rant on a review from someone you donít even know provide?

Youíre welcome. Iím glad to help.

Originally Posted By: Dr.House

But yes, complaining about customers complaining is a very counter-productive approach, especially from a member of the council. You would think there would be a bit more respect shown for those who expressed concerns in this thread.


Of all the people who frequent this place, you have little room to throw words like ďcounter-productiveĒ or ďrespectĒ around. And for the last time, I am not an Axiom representative. My words are mine, not Axiomís. Stop trying to make me / us into something we are not. Iím really starting to wonder just what your agenda is.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 09:12 PM

Originally Posted By: SRoode
To some it is, to some it isn't. If the buyer was contacted ahead of time, then he/she could make their decision to buy now or wait. Listen, I'm really only talking about real wood custom finishes here... It's a big investment. I would have expected a heads up.


I will concede to this. I agree, a head's up would have been nice before dumping ten grand or better. The only problem with that is; where do you draw the line in regards to the timeline of giving these folks an option? That could be a slippery slope.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 09:29 PM


Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Version 3 - 06/28/10 09:43 PM

Originally Posted By: fredk


No need to get the popcorn fredk. I am respectfully bowing out gracefully from the forum.
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 06/29/10 12:57 AM

Originally Posted By: michael_d
I will concede to this. I agree, a head's up would have been nice before dumping ten grand or better. The only problem with that is; where do you draw the line in regards to the timeline of giving these folks an option? That could be a slippery slope.


Yeah, and from the sounds of it, they didn't anticipate releasing v3 so soon. The release of the VP180 made it happen sooner.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Version 3 - 06/29/10 02:08 AM

Originally Posted By: grunt


I was actually a little pissed off when Axiom changed the amp on the EP500 w/o warning since I figured I would end up buying another one to run dual subs. Well that was until experimenting with Seanís subs has lead me to believe that dual subs is a non-starter in my room.

Cheers,
Dean


Maybe my subs are just that crappy? laugh
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 06/29/10 03:53 AM

Originally Posted By: St_PatGuy

Maybe my subs are just that crappy?


More like my room is just that crappy. cry

Your subs have acquitted themselves just fine when playing from the best location.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 06/29/10 04:13 AM

Originally Posted By: wheelz999


Dean, did you happen to watch the news today? grin


No Cam, I just thought about watching the news. You should see what happens when I actually catch a glimpse of it. shocked
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 06/29/10 04:19 AM

Originally Posted By: Dr.House

But yes, complaining about customers complaining is a very counter-productive approach, especially from a member of the council. You would think there would be a bit more respect shown for those who expressed concerns in this thread.


I couldnít have said it more succinctly.
Posted by: TonyMc

Re: Version 3 - 06/29/10 11:51 AM

Originally Posted By: SRoode
I love what I have, but I can certainly understand that if I bought I custom real wood finish system a couple of months ago that I may be a little put off (the system would cost several thousands of dollars, and that's a lot of cash for any speaker system). I would have expected a heads up to wait a bit. I think if these very few customers contacted Axiom directly, something could be worked out.

But, for the others like me, I love what I have and have no complaints.


Originally Posted By: SRoode
And, btw, the same people who spend almost double for a custom real wood finish are EXACTLY the type of people who would appreciate the magnetic grille (IMHO).


Thank you.
That was my point. wink
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Version 3 - 06/29/10 01:52 PM

Maybe that would be a good policy - mention what's coming down the pipe for custom wood orders (which are inherently longer lead anyways) but not for regular orders. The obvious question though is whether the information would leak out anyways, in which case see "Osborne Effect".

That said, my understanding was that most of the performance-related v3 changes dribbled into production over a year or more, and that only the name change and the magnetic grills were "sharp" changes, so this discussion may all be moot anyways.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Version 3 - 06/29/10 09:56 PM

Your right John, as usual. smile
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Version 3 - 06/29/10 10:23 PM

You know, Axiom could have gone a different path and did a bit more of a cosmetic tweak to the speakers, then basically introduced a whole new lineup (never having placed the new components in any v2 models of course and saving the v3 components for this new series).

Different model names. (Axiom EX60, EX80, VX180)
More of a different look. (maybe rounded corners, the magnetic grilles of course, new vinyl colour options?)
Enough changes to validate the creation of a whole new series so that no one with "previous" Axiom models would have been upset.
Kind of like the difference between the older AX series and the new Millenia series.

Those who ordered the Millenia lineup before the notice of new Axiom models (e.g. the Lofft-houn series) would still have had the latest, greatest revisions of the models they bought knowing it was all that Axiom offered at the time barring any pre-release info about a new lineup being designed.

Just a thought, but i bet there would have been alot less complaining if these speakers were introduced as a whole new series of speakers.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Version 3 - 06/29/10 11:42 PM

Very valid points!
Posted by: 80'sMan

Re: Version 3 - 06/30/10 12:12 AM

Personally, I've been waiting to upgrade my M50's to M60's.
Perfect timing for me.
Also, change is an inevitable part of life. It happens with good or bad results. Kind'a depends which way you look at it. For myself, I love my Axioms. I have no regret with my purchase. It was as much speaker as I could afford at the time. I still view what I own as a really good deal when comparing $$$ with performance. That hasn't changed, even with the new V3's. My "old" speakers haven't instantly become worse and my listening pleasure hasn't diminished at all.
Axiom has to stay competitive and evolve to survive. To not do so would be it's eventual demise. That outcome would be far worse alternative than missing an update tomorrow by purchasing today. No complaints here.
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Version 3 - 06/30/10 01:28 AM

Originally Posted By: chesseroo
Just a thought, but i bet there would have been alot less complaining if these speakers were introduced as a whole new series of speakers.

Good idea. Now where did I put that time machine?
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 06/30/10 01:33 AM

I think there would have been enough complaining. This is the internet! People would have been all over the fact that they were basically the same speakers, only looking slightly different.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Version 3 - 06/30/10 02:25 AM

The complaints would still have come in even if the speaker was redesigned. The complaints are about the new version/upgrade and not being told about a change that was known internally and not spoken of to the buyers. Well a new speaker would still render the same comlaint about not being told about the upcoming design change when ordering, especially if you are ordering the real wood series.

So far as a new series, that has been hinted at in a thread or was it by Gene D. with his quick review.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Version 3 - 06/30/10 11:31 AM

The mistake was holding the line on prices.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Version 3 - 06/30/10 12:40 PM

Ya, they should have dropped grin
Posted by: sonicfox

Re: Version 3 - 06/30/10 01:05 PM

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
The mistake was holding the line on prices.


Shhhh...you might give them ideas. They need to wait until I buy my new M80 V3s! wink
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Version 3 - 06/30/10 08:08 PM

Anyone know how significant the changes to the QS8 speakers might be from V2 to V3?
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Version 3 - 06/30/10 08:14 PM

I need to win the lottery. I have an epic 80 800 7.1 system in high gloss piano black with an a1400-2 amp calling my name in my cart for $10,200.

Any chance axiom might have a half price sale soon? smile smile

Call me crazy, but for some reason I really like the look of the high gloss black finish with white grills....
Posted by: Potatohead

Re: Version 3 - 07/01/10 01:42 AM

Only 7.1?

pffft
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Version 3 - 07/01/10 03:20 AM

Maybe you just need to be a member of some new network marketing company. LOL smile
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Version 3 - 07/01/10 08:58 AM

Maybe if I end up driving to Axiom's 30th, I could bring my V2 system and swap it out for V3's, it would be worth the 16hr drive, lol.
Posted by: medic8r

Re: Version 3 - 07/01/10 01:29 PM

Originally Posted By: terzaghi
Call me crazy, but ...

Everybody stand back - I got this!
Posted by: sovkiller

Re: Version 3 - 07/01/10 09:25 PM

For the Axiom guys and jokes apart, is there any way for us, existing V2 owners/customers, of getting the upgrades, drivers and crossovers at least, I do not care about the grill...even if we pay for them, of course it will be great to get an speacial price also, or maybe returning the all drivers, etc...My major concern is the crossovers...I noticed that the curve is different, there is a little bump in the lows, on the V2's that now is smoother...
Posted by: Wid

Re: Version 3 - 07/01/10 09:32 PM


It does seem the V3 has a smother response compared to the previous models but do remember; that curve changes once in your room. Would it really be worth it?
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 07/01/10 10:29 PM

Sovkiller. Yes, Axiom is making the drivers and crossovers available, but I think you would be better off selling the old v2 and buying v3. The difference will probably be about the same as buying all the drivers and crossovers.
Posted by: 80'sMan

Re: Version 3 - 07/02/10 03:18 AM

Many have mentioned upgrading their systems from V2 to V3. I'd like to know the ramifications from doing a partial upgrade. They say it's not ideal to have one manufacturer for front left and right and another for the center, etc. How different versions from Axiom?
I have the Epic 50/500 system and I'm considering upgrading my M50v2 to M60v3. The rest of my system (QS4's, EP500 and VP100) would all still be V2's. Would a used set of M60v2's be better?
Or how even would the M50v3 work with older VP100v2 center channel etc?
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Version 3 - 07/02/10 07:52 AM

I called and spoke with axiom about upgrading the crossovers and drivers from V2 to V3. The impression I got is that there would be a cost saving in doing this (maybe buy all drivers and crossovers for both V2 m80's for about price of 1 new m80 v3, maybe a little more?- just a guess though). They said that Ian is still working on the pricing for the upgrades. When he is done, the upgrade components will be for sale in the axiom store online.

Keep in mind that there will be a fair amount of soldering required to replace the crossovers. (not sure of the exact amount).

As long as the price is right, I plan on buying new drivers and crossovers for my m80's when I buy a vp180. If I can talk my wife into it i'd like to get an ep800 at the same time but I have a feeling that might have to wait.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 07/02/10 10:17 AM

That's pretty much what I know. 80'sman, I don't think there's a real issue of matching v3s to v2s; they didn't change them THAT much, and even people with VP180s say they match their tis well.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Version 3 - 07/02/10 10:29 AM

The DIY upgrade option is not going to be cheap, or easy to everyone. It is however an option that Axiom is giving owners of their product and it's an option that Ken, Randy, Peter and I all pestered Axiom to offer. I'm pretty excited about. For me, due to shipping costs, it would cost me almost as much to ship a set of M80's that what I could sell them for. So, for me, buying the components, yarding the Ti guts out, doing a little work installing the new V3 components just makes more sense. I know it will not be for everyone, but I think others are in the same boat as me. When pricing does become available, it may sound pretty high, but when you do the math and add in the costs of shipping in, it starts to look more palatable.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Version 3 - 07/03/10 02:08 AM

Originally Posted By: grunt
Originally Posted By: St_PatGuy

Maybe my subs are just that crappy?


More like my room is just that crappy. cry

Your subs have acquitted themselves just fine when playing from the best location.



Mark still has you beat.



He's got EVERYONE beat.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Version 3 - 07/05/10 09:55 PM

Does anyone out there have a pair of the new Axiom M3V3s?
Posted by: sovkiller

Re: Version 3 - 07/12/10 03:31 AM

Originally Posted By: fredk
Sovkiller. Yes, Axiom is making the drivers and crossovers available, but I think you would be better off selling the old v2 and buying v3. The difference will probably be about the same as buying all the drivers and crossovers.


No, that is not the case, I hope I could get for mine what I need for the upgrade, the cost of drivers and crossover alone is almost the cost of the new V3 pair, it is like Axiom do not want us to upgrade that way...I was contacted by JC and yes the cost is prohibitive for the upgrade.
BTW hope you will never have to replace any driver at your dime, those prices are simply ridiculous for such size and quality...almost the double of any hi-end on the market from any well known brand...

About to sell the V2's and get the V3, well as you probably are aware, Axiom has good prices for their speakers, but unfortunatelly extremely bad resell value, the trade in program was a very good option for us, I will give my two years old M80V2's at 1K, to whomever wants them, they are in pristine condition, like new...Just to get he V3's, lets see if there is any soul interested...
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Version 3 - 07/12/10 07:20 AM

What finish are they?
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Version 3 - 07/12/10 11:51 AM

Originally Posted By: Sovkiller
those prices are simply ridiculous for such size and quality...almost the double of any hi-end on the market from any well known brand...


Absolutely disagree.
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: Version 3 - 07/12/10 12:00 PM

+1 with you Tom.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Version 3 - 07/12/10 12:42 PM

I'm afraid I agree, these statements seem a little un-factual. I'm sure AV123 would like a new customer. smile
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Version 3 - 07/14/10 02:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Sovkiller
Originally Posted By: fredk
Sovkiller. Yes, Axiom is making the drivers and crossovers available, but I think you would be better off selling the old v2 and buying v3. The difference will probably be about the same as buying all the drivers and crossovers.


No, that is not the case, I hope I could get for mine what I need for the upgrade, the cost of drivers and crossover alone is almost the cost of the new V3 pair, it is like Axiom do not want us to upgrade that way...I was contacted by JC and yes the cost is prohibitive for the upgrade.
BTW hope you will never have to replace any driver at your dime, those prices are simply ridiculous for such size and quality...almost the double of any hi-end on the market from any well known brand...

About to sell the V2's and get the V3, well as you probably are aware, Axiom has good prices for their speakers, but unfortunatelly extremely bad resell value, the trade in program was a very good option for us, I will give my two years old M80V2's at 1K, to whomever wants them, they are in pristine condition, like new...Just to get he V3's, lets see if there is any soul interested...


Given the price structure of each component (that was given earlier in this thread) and the total cost involved relative to the cost of a brand new M80 tower, the modifications are indeed really expensive. It is a not a value driven purchase when it comes to price/performance. This is not out of the ordinary with manufacturers or other aftermarket modifications.

Sticking with just internet direct brands as an example, Ascend Acoustics is coming out with a newly modified version to the bamboo constructed Sierra-1. It has been estimated that the new tweeter alone would retail around $180. The biggest problem with the M80 modifications to V3 is that there is so many driver components to swap and all those costs add up. The cost of the drivers is probably around or a bit below industry average. Applying modifications to existing products is not generally a market where value is present for the consumer.
Posted by: sovkiller

Re: Version 3 - 07/14/10 11:05 PM

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Absolutely disagree.


Tom you are not talking with a novice here...I'm an audio dealer myself and have been in this business for over 25 years, first as an enthusiast and later a little more involved on it...

If you disagree just go to Part Express and Madisound, just two of them, an check for high-end drivers from Vifa, Peerless, Morel, Seas, Dayton, HiVi, Dynavox, and even Chinese drivers, etc...and see the prices, with technologies more sophisticated than titanium and aluminum cones...Peerless has right now similar aluminum drivers for less and God knows about performance, I have not tested them...
The tweeter from the Alesis monitor ones, that are excellent tweeters BTW, are right now in Parts Express for $8.00 in a buyout, my brother have the monitor ones and let me tell you that those are reference monitors for any decent setup or in any decent studio...
AV123 and even some projects from PE done by D'Appolito sounds very good for the money and employs drivers that rival if not better any Axiom drivers for less...Remeber that just because one company manufacture drivers, doesn't make them better than others, to manufacture drivers is indeed a way of lower costs in some cases and in others just to get a reliable quality and availability overtime...and rarely about the specs...driver technologies are about a century old now if not more...

Read here a little over the lines, from the engineer of McIntosh Audio:

http://www.roger-russell.com/lsd2.htm

Those prices are IMO symbolic prices to stop upgraditis, and force to buy the new models, that God knows if indeed sound better...we are trusting their ears not ours...and do not forget that audio is not just a sum of elements, geometry, real state, of the room etc...plays a very important role in the sound at the end....I have seen very good speakers sod miserable in odd shaped rooms, while others less expensive will shine
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Version 3 - 07/15/10 12:54 AM

Perhaps if Axiom manufactured drivers on the scales that these other companies do, they could get their unit prices down to competitive levels. The current reality is that they do not. I highly doubt they're gouging consumers -- which is implicit in your criticism -- with their current driver prices.
Posted by: Dundas

Re: Version 3 - 07/15/10 01:34 AM

Originally Posted By: Sovkiller
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Absolutely disagree.


Tom you are not talking with a novice here...I'm an audio dealer myself and have been in this business for over 25 years, first as an enthusiast and later a little more involved on it...

If you disagree just go to Part Express and Madisound, just two of them, an check for high-end drivers from Vifa, Peerless, Morel, Seas, Dayton, HiVi, Dynavox, and even Chinese drivers, etc...and see the prices, with technologies more sophisticated than titanium and aluminum cones...Peerless has right now similar aluminum drivers for less and God knows about performance, I have not tested them...
The tweeter from the Alesis monitor ones, that are excellent tweeters BTW, are right now in Parts Express for $8.00 in a buyout, my brother have the monitor ones and let me tell you that those are reference monitors for any decent setup or in any decent studio...
AV123 and even some projects from PE done by D'Appolito sounds very good for the money and employs drivers that rival if not better any Axiom drivers for less...Remeber that just because one company manufacture drivers, doesn't make them better than others, to manufacture drivers is indeed a way of lower costs in some cases and in others just to get a reliable quality and availability overtime...and rarely about the specs...driver technologies are about a century old now if not more...

Read here a little over the lines, from the engineer of McIntosh Audio:

http://www.roger-russell.com/lsd2.htm

Those prices are IMO symbolic prices to stop upgraditis, and force to buy the new models, that God knows if indeed sound better...we are trusting their ears not ours...and do not forget that audio is not just a sum of elements, geometry, real state, of the room etc...plays a very important role in the sound at the end....I have seen very good speakers sod miserable in odd shaped rooms, while others less expensive will shine


I, for one, have no idea what you are trying to say with your reference to Roger Russell's self serving web site but in any event when did Axiom ever commit to sell you new components, at whatever price, should they ever have an upgrade? I am unaware of another major speaker manufacturer (or assembler) who would even offer for them for sale.
When you purchase consumer electronics these days you should have no reasonable expectation that the product will be current a year later and, btw, no one is forcing you to buy anything! I think you are being unreasonable.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Version 3 - 07/15/10 12:16 PM

Sovkiller, even if they were selling the drivers at $20 the modifications would still be very expensive for the M80 because of it having so many drivers. The extent of the "improvement" of these new components has not even been explained so you will be purchasing on incomplete information anyways on the benefits involved over the ti/v2 versions. Also take into consideration the special tools, labour and time involved in making these modifications. Personally, I don't find it attractive at all.
Posted by: sovkiller

Re: Version 3 - 07/15/10 07:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Dr.House
Sovkiller, even if they were selling the drivers at $20 the modifications would still be very expensive for the M80 because of it having so many drivers. The extent of the "improvement" of these new components has not even been explained so you will be purchasing on incomplete information anyways on the benefits involved over the ti/v2 versions. Also take into consideration the special tools, labour and time involved in making these modifications. Personally, I don't find it attractive at all.


Dr. House....I totally agree with you on that information is not even complete as to take the plug, and as I said before, the benefits are always relative of what you may like or not, and the acoustics of your room...we do not know yet if it is even worth the upgrade or not. Personally the work do not worries me, of course assuming that the drivers will fit in the same holes, and mechanically are alike or similar at least, if any other type of labor, as routing again the openings is involved, I honestly prefer not to get into that myself...but at $20 a pop, I could give it a try and see, but at $1100 a set, everybody will definitelly pass...

Dundas my only purpose of showing that site was to illustrate the reason behind some manufacturers to get into the production of their own drivers, and why not a little bit of history of the audio and speaker manufacture, for the ones interested, and it is not only becasue of they can get better quality, most of the times they do not, but they do get availability when they need them on time, and better quality control over what they can do...nothing else...Sorry if you misunderstood me...

As per the comitment of selling drivers or not, Axiom did not, as nobody does...but in my humble opinion, if they decided to offer it (they could refuse and end of the story) at least make the prices reasonable, so the offer should have some validity, otherwise it is just a joke to say we did it, but you have to be crazy to spend more than a new set on them...

It is like saying you will do a benefit concert for some kind of charity, and charge for the tickets $1000.00...Hey I'm very nice to donate my time and effort, just gimme a call to prepare everything while you have the Madison Square Garden sold out!!!

And yes there are many manufacturers that sell drivers, of course if you tell them, that yours are blown away, and the speaker is out of warranty, as they prefer to sell them, that ship back and forth a set of speakers the size of the M80's toget a repair done...I ahve done that several times, not one, Infinity, Alesis, Yamaha, are among the ones I recall now...
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 07/15/10 07:51 PM

If you take your numbers and figure how much it would be for M60s or M50s, the price suddenly becomes more reasonable. You're cursed by the number of drivers in the M80s.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Version 3 - 07/15/10 08:03 PM

Woo Hoo! M60 owners rejoice! smile
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 07/15/10 08:09 PM

BTW, Ian objected to the upgrade idea for the very reason that you're bringing up; it's gonna cost a lot of money. Still, the customer council felt that some people might want the option.
Posted by: sovkiller

Re: Version 3 - 07/17/10 02:26 PM

Guys, you can argument all you want, but IMO, and in others, that have run a little bit into this field, these prices are high...period...here is the list of them...

- tweeter: $58.00
- mid: $62.00
- woofer reg. : $83.00 . . . die cast : $108.00
- crossover : $132.00

According to my little experience and my previous purchases, and not trying to play smart here, just being realistic, a very reasonable price for this tweeter will be no more than $20-25...I encourage anybody to sell one alone for that price to see how many you will sell, honestly I doubt they will sell any...The mids no more than $30.00 and the woofers $30-45, any version, regular baskets sound as good as die cast nowadays if well designed...
Any software to design a crossover or even if you commission any audio guru to design them for you, will cost you less, part for those will not cost you an arm and a leg either. I replaced all the parts in my previous crossovers in the M3ti and the parts were real cheap, nothing like a good mill non inductive resistor, or any fancy audiophile grade cap there enither...I replaced all of the parts from under 25 bucks shipped...did they sounded better after? Probably not, but at least I feel I was using a better product...

I do not think that there is any other reason behind those prices, other than to discourage people from the upgrades...of course that is a right they have, and we all take it or leave it, but I will never get drivers at those prices for sure, if any of mine blow away after warranty, and I hope not, I will rather replace all of them by other drivers, rather than paying those prices for proprietary drivers with no known specs...

They are not the most expensive drivers ever, of course, but they are not cheap at all, and the there are other alternatives for those drivers that may sound as good (if not better) for less...as i said before, I have never paid more than 25 for a good tweeter, and have heard quite a few, of course you can pay up to 200 for them as well, but are not in that same league, just compare prices with similar drivers and you will have your numbers...

Having said that all that rest to me is again thanks Axiom for the sound, they do sound good, that is true and they offer very good value for the money, I'm as satisfied with my V2 as the same day I got them, can I upgrade them? Well probably yes, but not at that price point...unless a DIY or any custom project and I do not have the time nor the space tools for that neither...But do not forget that you get what you paid for, in some cases with more fairness than in others, and in the case of Axiom I do consider that I paid a very fair price for them, to the point, that rather than upgrading to any other brand I was thinking in keeping things in tha house and upgrade this to the V3, unfortunately for us, not an option at these prices...
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Version 3 - 07/17/10 02:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Sovkiller

- tweeter: $58.00
- mid: $62.00
- woofer reg. : $83.00 . . . die cast : $108.00
- crossover : $132.00





Is that the price quote you got on the Axiom drivers? If so that is indeed very expensive. I hope I never lose a driver out of warranty. Its more than what was previously quoted in this thread.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Version 3 - 07/17/10 03:30 PM

If those prices are accurate, they would seem on the high side compared to some of the good quality drivers from Vifa, Peerless, SB Acoustics and similar. Perhaps Peter hit the nail on the head...Axiom manufactures a limited number of drivers compared with companies like Peerless and Vifa, so part of that is reflected in the pricing.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Version 3 - 07/17/10 03:42 PM

I have no idea whether those prices are high, middle of the road, or low. And I'm not speaking for anyone at Axiom.

But I can tell you that _I_ , as owner of the company, would not be wanting to sell "sets" of the drivers/crossovers that I designed and manufactured, only to have people putting them into cheap boxes and selling them on eBay as "Axiom knockoffs".

Photographers / Videographers have had this problem for years... when someone copies your work (poorly) and then goes around saying "this was done by so and so studio". It just hurts your "brand" and your reputation.

Again, I'm not speaking for Ian. I'm just saying if it were MY company, you bet my pricing for drivers and crossovers would be high!
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 07/17/10 03:46 PM

How about lower pricing for Owners Club members and a maximum number of driver purchases based on what products you own?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Version 3 - 07/17/10 03:47 PM

That's a good point, Mark.

Another problem would be incorrect installation, particularily where crossovers are involved...a simple wiring mistake could prove costly.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Version 3 - 07/17/10 03:47 PM

You do know that Dayton drivers at parts express which are sold for a 3rd of the cost at what Axiom is selling "look" the same that are used on the ti and v2 versions. If one wanted to "white van" v1/v2 Axiom speakers there always have been avenues to do that.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Version 3 - 07/17/10 03:59 PM

Hey, I'm just offering my opinion, just like you're offering yours.

Horse, I think you've beaten this house to death.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Version 3 - 07/17/10 04:00 PM

Yes, but by your last response its obvious you can't accept different opinions.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Version 3 - 07/17/10 04:12 PM

post deleted by me
Posted by: HomeDad

Re: Version 3 - 07/17/10 08:52 PM

Wow, I know I haven't been around as much as I was before, but am I one of the few that is still totally satisfied with the purchase I made several years ago?
I can understand how some people who recently ordered may be a bit disappointed that they may have missed out on getting the latest and the greatest, but are the changes that dramatic that an ordinary person like myself would even notice the difference?
Sure, I still get upgradeitis and I'm sure in the near future I'll add the VP180, but I'm not going to worry if it's version 3 or 10, I think I'll just enjoy the Axiom sound that has kept most of us happy for many years.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Version 3 - 07/18/10 02:25 AM

I'm with Michael.

Sovkiller and Dr. House, besides obviously wanting someone to agree with your negative opinions, is there something that you are trying to accomplish?

If you think an item in the marketplace is too expensive, don't buy it.

There, I fixed it.
Posted by: RickF

Re: Version 3 - 07/18/10 07:47 AM

I'm with Mark, Michael and Tom and I have a v3 VP180 incorporated with v2 M80s and QS8s that to my ordinary ears sounds absolutely incredible as a whole system. Not once, for even a millisecond has the thought entered my mind that the VP180 center was sonically in a different class than the rest of my system nor have I noticed any obvious differences other than the silver domes and magnetic grills, which, if you leave the grills on like myself you'll very seldom even see those differences.

My personal opinion only...

I'm inclined to believe a little bit of the review Ian posted from whoever it was who reviewed the v3 speakers was a wee bit over the top regarding the vast differences between the new and old versions and some folks have taken the review as an axe to start chopping trees, myself included at first.

I am absolutely happy with my Axiom speakers and if the wife ever lets me spend any money whenever I decide to upgrade, it will primarily be to a nicer finish because like Michael, I wouldn't care if the speakers were version 3 or 10.
Posted by: sovkiller

Re: Version 3 - 07/18/10 08:00 PM

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
I'm with Michael.

Sovkiller and Dr. House, besides obviously wanting someone to agree with your negative opinions, is there something that you are trying to accomplish?

If you think an item in the marketplace is too expensive, don't buy it.

There, I fixed it.


Negative opinions? What negative opinions, did you read my posts. I stated several times that the Axiom sound is very good, and that they offer a very good value for the money, and that I really like it, that was why i tried to get the upgrade in the first place...but that fact, doesn't make these drivers prices cheap neither...I do not think that to say the truth is a negative opinion, all the opposite...

And Tom, yes to your question, at least me personally, was trying to get a reasonable price for the upgrade, to see if we can upgrade to V3, and post opinions on how they sound indeed in comparison, and sorry but I do not want/need anybody to agree with me, I know that those prices are very high...period...I'm just telling you guys the prices given to me, by them, and my opinion, but as usual it is just that, my opinion based in some experience in the field, you can take it, or simply ignore it...

BTW some of "the Dayton drivers" are not offering look only, they are made to specs for them, Dayton have very good drivers for the money, the Titanic is one of the finest sub-woofers ever made...
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/18/10 09:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Sovkiller
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
I'm with Michael.

Sovkiller and Dr. House, besides obviously wanting someone to agree with your negative opinions, is there something that you are trying to accomplish?

If you think an item in the marketplace is too expensive, don't buy it.

There, I fixed it.


Negative opinions? What negative opinions, did you read my posts. I stated several times that the Axiom sound is very good, and that they offer a very good value for the money, and that I really like it, that was why i tried to get the upgrade in the first place...but that fact, doesn't make these drivers prices cheap neither...I do not think that to say the truth is a negative opinion, all the opposite...

And Tom, yes to your question, at least me personally, was trying to get a reasonable price for the upgrade, to see if we can upgrade to V3, and post opinions on how they sound indeed in comparison, and sorry but I do not want/need anybody to agree with me, I know that those prices are very high...period...I'm just telling you guys the prices given to me, by them, and my opinion, but as usual it is just that, my opinion based in some experience in the field, you can take it, or simply ignore it...

BTW some of "the Dayton drivers" are not offering look only, they are made to specs for them, Dayton have very good drivers for the money, the Titanic is one of the finest sub-woofers ever made...


Both your and the Docs posts were accurate and well stated. I didnít find anything negative about them. For some reason right now (not the norm) anything not glowingly Axiom is being taken as negative. This to shall pass. I hope.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 07/18/10 09:35 PM

I don't understand what all the noise is about. Axiom is in the business of selling speakers, not components.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Version 3 - 07/18/10 11:31 PM

Looks like I picked the right month to go on vacation.
Posted by: medic8r

Re: Version 3 - 07/19/10 12:48 PM

Looks like I picked the right month to get busy at work and tune out on the boards.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Version 3 - 07/19/10 02:40 PM

That is correct Fred, good point. The reason Axiom is bringing this as an option is because over the years a "few" DIY'rs have asked for this as an option. Now that it is offered to them, it isn't good enough.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/19/10 03:12 PM

How many DIYírs have expressed the opinion that what Axiom is doing isnít good enough, I havenít seen that many DIYírs posting about this. wink
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 07/19/10 03:53 PM

You are correct Dean. It is not DIYers complaining. It is, however, still complaining.

If the price is not right for you: move along, don't buy.

Edit: no this is not directed specifically at you Dean.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Version 3 - 07/19/10 03:55 PM

These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along, move along.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 07/19/10 04:00 PM

grin
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Version 3 - 07/19/10 06:20 PM

exactly why I used the word "few".
Posted by: sovkiller

Re: Version 3 - 07/19/10 08:19 PM

Originally Posted By: fredk
I don't understand what all the noise is about. Axiom is in the business of selling speakers, not components.


Nobody is questioning that Fred, and you are right...But that is just one point of view, now there is another point a little more objective, and is that Axiom should be interested as well, in keeping happy the customers they already have, that have trusted them over the years, and are buying their products time after time...I already got their top of the line, they do not have an M90's...If they did, I would have gotten those long time ago...as I liked my M80's and anything better will be welcome...That is the reason we are just trying to "upgrade" what is currently good...Axiom do not have now the program they have years ago to upgrade neither...And the resell value of Axiom anywhere else, is very poor...

Also we are not talking of a couple of guys from God knows where, that are looking into getting drivers to assemble their own versions of Axioms, to sell them on eBay for profits, we are talking of previous customers, registered with Axiom, that Axiom know who they are, that do not have the funds to spend 1,2K in an upgrade of an speaker that cost 1,3K new...and that on top are willing to eat the old drivers, and crossovers, as they are not very good value once you remove them, specially with absolutely to specs to show to anybody...
Posted by: sovkiller

Re: Version 3 - 07/19/10 08:41 PM

Originally Posted By: RickF
I'm with Mark, Michael and Tom and I have a v3 VP180 incorporated with v2 M80s and QS8s that to my ordinary ears sounds absolutely incredible as a whole system. Not once, for even a millisecond has the thought entered my mind that the VP180 center was sonically in a different class than the rest of my system nor have I noticed any obvious differences other than the silver domes and magnetic grills, which, if you leave the grills on like myself you'll very seldom even see those differences.

My personal opinion only...

I'm inclined to believe a little bit of the review Ian posted from whoever it was who reviewed the v3 speakers was a wee bit over the top regarding the vast differences between the new and old versions and some folks have taken the review as an axe to start chopping trees, myself included at first.

I am absolutely happy with my Axiom speakers and if the wife ever lets me spend any money whenever I decide to upgrade, it will primarily be to a nicer finish because like Michael, I wouldn't care if the speakers were version 3 or 10.


Rick that is another very valid point, we, I think that are getting a little too enthusiastic with the new version, and we have not even heard those new V3 yet, we are just trusting what the manufacturer have stated, maybe is all about numbers and you can not even hear a single bit of a difference in our setups. Another thing is that even if we can hear them, maybe we do not like the change, all is in the eye of the beholder....BTW the old M80 curves, and I think the others as well were removed from the website, we do not even have now a way of comparison, from what I recall the old M80 were a little more irregular in the low end at least in papers...but God knows...I think that will be good the Axiom publish all the manuals in PDF, of all older versions with the graphs, just as a reference...
Posted by: Wid

Re: Version 3 - 07/19/10 08:55 PM


M80 ti graph.


Posted by: Adrian

Re: Version 3 - 07/19/10 08:55 PM

The M80 v2 measurements are available at Soundstage Magazine for reference as is the M80Ti.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Version 3 - 07/19/10 09:40 PM

Those graphs don't sound any different to me at all.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Version 3 - 07/19/10 10:06 PM

Howdy Dr. House, Sovkiller (Myawkri Dyeli?) and all.

I have a bunch of Michaura speakers, all of which use Axiom black eyed pea drivers (5.25" and 6.5" as well as the 3/4" Axiom Titanium tweeter (previously used in the M0, M1 and M2 speakers. The Michaura cabinets are incredibly solid, heavy, hex shaped affairs as opposed to the Axiom trapezoids. They are great sounding speakers.

I picked up a bunch of 6.5" Axiom drivers some years ago to use in the Merak center channel speakers made by Axiom. Some of these centers also used the Axiom 3/4" titanium tweeter, others use a big honking horn tweeter. I swapped the Axiom 6.5" drivers for the Meraks, kept the Axiom horn tweeter in one, and swapped the Axiom 3/4" Titanium tweeter for the 1" Vifa Tweeter and cross-over from the magnificent Reference 3a de capo mm speaker.

I bought every Merak MC6H (horn) and MC 634 (3/4" titanium tweeter) I could find on ebay, and Axiom was kind enough to sell me the Axiom 6.5" drivers for my FRANKENSPEAKER CENTER CHANNEL efforts which I gave away to my good friends except for 2 which I kept for myself.

I recently picked up a VP150 and although it is a tough call, I think I prefer the VP 150.

Anyway, I don't think I would have had such a good time modifying these speakers if Axiom had charged me as much for the 6.5" drivers as they are now charging.

Originally Posted By: Dr.House
You do know that Dayton drivers at parts express which are sold for a 3rd of the cost at what Axiom is selling "look" the same that are used on the ti and v2 versions. If one wanted to "white van" v1/v2 Axiom speakers there always have been avenues to do that.

Posted by: SatKartr

Re: Version 3 - 07/19/10 10:19 PM

It seems academic now, but when I spoke with Brent a few weeks back he stated that Axiom would post official pricing for the v3 components somewhere on the website. Does anyone know if that's still planned?
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Version 3 - 07/19/10 10:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Sovkiller

Also we are not talking of a couple of guys from God knows where, that are looking into getting drivers to assemble their own versions of Axioms, to sell them on eBay for profits, we are talking of previous customers, registered with Axiom, that Axiom know who they are, that do not have the funds to spend 1,2K in an upgrade of an speaker that cost 1,3K new...and that on top are willing to eat the old drivers, and crossovers, as they are not very good value once you remove them, specially with absolutely to specs to show to anybody...


So if you had bought some Paradigm's would you be expecting the same part replacement ability from them?

I do agree the prices seem/are high and wonder if Axiom has considered special pricing for a full kit(2 speakers), ie 4 5.25 drivers, 2 tweeters and 2 crossover for M22, opposed to individual component pricing.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 07/19/10 10:34 PM

You crack me up Sovkiller. I would love to see the look on the face of your car dealer when you go in and ask for an upgrade to make your old car just like the new model. ... and for cheap.
Posted by: medic8r

Re: Version 3 - 07/20/10 12:34 AM

Good analogy.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Version 3 - 07/20/10 12:51 AM

I don't agree that it's a good analogy. Car dealers don't typically tell owners with the 2008 model that they can upgrade their cars to 2010 specs.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Version 3 - 07/20/10 01:08 AM

PMB, now part of the official clean-up squad.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 07/20/10 01:10 AM

That was the point.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Version 3 - 07/20/10 01:42 AM

Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
PMB, now part of the official clean-up squad.

I have a robot that only does two things, and it's more unpredictable than your responses.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/20/10 01:47 AM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson

These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along, move along.


Nominated for best post of the thread. smile
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/20/10 01:56 AM

Originally Posted By: fredk
You crack me up Sovkiller. I would love to see the look on the face of your car dealer when you go in and ask for an upgrade to make your old car just like the new model. ... and for cheap.


I got a great look from mine. I did what they call a trade-in. wink

Actually it was a trade up and got a sweet deal overall.

Oh wait I traded in my VP150 for other Axioms. To bad that program is gone. I got in just under the wire. cool
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 07/20/10 02:12 AM

Good comeback! So, how many other speaker manufacturers offer a trade in program?

You can 'upgrade' your engine any time you like too. Just expect to pay full price and much more than the manufacturer did when they assembled the original.

Sorry Dean. The pedant in me just won't stop tonight. wink
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/20/10 02:24 AM

Iím surprised that the trade-up program lasted as long as it did. Anyone I told about it was actually quite shocked that a speaker company would do such a thing. I was shocked at how much I actually got for my VP150.

The only upgrade I got for my new car was AC and tinted windows. Iíve never had AC before. Iím becoming such a wuss in my old age. smile
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 07/20/10 02:29 AM

I don't have air in my current car either. Don't really need it up here. I don't see how you could go without living where you do though.

I always thought the trade up program was very generous.
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 07/20/10 02:30 AM

Even though I never took advantage of the trade-up program, I really liked the idea because if I eventually decided to switch my whole system to a nicer finish, that probably would have been the way to do it. v3 and whatever new models are coming out will pretty much ensure the normal speakers in my system will be replaced (fronts, center, surrounds), but there's no way I'm replacing my subwoofers for a long time, so I'm fairly locked in to Boston Cherry for quite a while.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/20/10 02:40 AM

Originally Posted By: fredk
I don't have air in my current car either. Don't really need it up here. I don't see how you could go without living where you do though.

I always thought the trade up program was very generous.


I work outside and not having air keeps me better acclimated. Not to forget except for when I committed marriage and got sentenced to live in Wisconsin Iíve spent all the rest of my life in the tropics. Places like Arizona, West Africa, and the South Pacific. IMO man should not live where palm trees donít grow naturally.

Must admit my carpool bud is digging the new air. She sayís others are making fun of me to her saying I got it to suck up to her. Funny no one will say that to my face. wink

What the hell doesnít hurt my rep for them to think Iím her sugar-daddy which she is playing up to the hilt.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/20/10 02:48 AM

Originally Posted By: CV
Even though I never took advantage of the trade-up program, I really liked the idea because if I eventually decided to switch my whole system to a nicer finish, that probably would have been the way to do it. v3 and whatever new models are coming out will pretty much ensure the normal speakers in my system will be replaced (fronts, center, surrounds), but there's no way I'm replacing my subwoofers for a long time, so I'm fairly locked in to Boston Cherry for quite a while.


I never expected to use the trade-up program since when I bought my Axioms it was with the intention (still is) I would never revisit my HT speaker purchase. Maybe add to but never replace. Thatís why I went ahead and just got the M80s figuring event though I was in an apartment then I would eventually want them. Funny how I seemed to miss the trade-up program when I ordered the M80 center.

Iíve always intended to purchase a separate 2ch system for the other room that Sean and I demoed his speakers in. Iím almost certain they will not be Axiom. Probably 2 driver monitors or towers similar to Seanís speakers. Not that I donít like the Axiom sound but for some things I would prefer a less intense speaker than the M80 but one that still goes lower than the M22. Always liked the Focal Chorus I demoed way back so those will be high on my list.
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 07/20/10 02:59 AM

I'd like a separate 2-channel system, too, and I would also go with something other than Axiom. I still don't know what it will be, but it would just be nice to have a little variety. Of course, if Axiom keeps releasing compelling new stuff, I may never have the budget for the second system.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/20/10 03:09 AM

I would certainly consider Axiom if they released something more in line of what Iím looking for in a 2ch system but as far as upgrading my existing system I canít see any reason to. Might add more speakers but Iím already configured with a full 11.2 system and still have an extra pair of M22s to throw in when the next round of additional channels gets added.

Might add a VP180 to put above my screen, which would certainly enhance the ďwall-of-soundĒ effect for movies but Iíd like to see some professional reviews and would really like to see some off axis measurements of it before I go to the trouble of trying to get one above my screen in such a way that if I donít like it I havenít destroyed the cabinet so I canít ship it back.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 07/20/10 03:13 AM

Quote:
IMO man should not live where palm trees donít grow naturally.

Some places with palm trees are more hospitable than others. I could live in a place like Hawaii where it never gets stupid hot or cold.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/20/10 03:25 AM

Originally Posted By: fredk

Some places with palm trees are more hospitable than others. I could live in a place like Hawaii where it never gets stupid hot or cold.

Iíll take insanely hot over icicles hanging off my moustache when I get done running any day. Though I agree the coast is nice for moderating the temperature and surfing.

I love Hawaii. Iíve managed to get on a Hawaii trip at least one a year for the last 5 years. One was for a week during which we worked a total of 4 hours. What always kills me is that 4 of the trips Iíve made were to support local (to Hawaii) missions or the Hawaii Army National Guard. And every time at least 4-6 of the Hawaii Air Guard tankers were sitting over on their ramp while we were launching out. Not only does our governmentís right hand not know what the left hand is doing Iím getting convinced theyíre not even attached to the same torso.
Posted by: dewd

Re: Version 3 - 07/22/10 09:43 PM

Question. I haven't been here much lately, so if this has been discussed, I apologize (I did search).

I've been reading reports of V3 shipments on other boards. One thing that caught my attention was the fact that spikes are now a $21 'option'. Seriously? Is this true?
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Version 3 - 07/22/10 09:47 PM

I guess so since I didn't receive any spikes with my purchase. frown
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Version 3 - 07/22/10 09:52 PM

Where are you seeing it listed as an option, Dave? I can't find it.

Perhaps instead of raising the $$ on V3's they took the spikes off the table? I use the rubber feet myself, spikes are still in the trays.
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Version 3 - 07/22/10 09:59 PM

I have to agree with you Adrian. Taking in consideration the improvements on the v3 and Axiom decided it was not a good idea to raise prices I guess this was a good business decision since most people don't use the spikes. Although I would really like to have received them because of its looks.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 07/22/10 09:59 PM

The bookshelf models never included spikes.
Posted by: dewd

Re: Version 3 - 07/22/10 10:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Adrian
Where are you seeing it listed as an option, Dave? I can't find it.


It was reported by a somewhat upset buyer on another site. Axiom shipped them out free of charge, but it was communicated that they now cost $21.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Version 3 - 07/22/10 10:05 PM

As Ken implied/stated...maybe they are referring to bookshelf speakers which wouldn't require them(normally)? I don't see any indication that the towers don't come with spikes.
Posted by: dewd

Re: Version 3 - 07/22/10 10:07 PM

No, it was the M80V3.

Yeah I know the book shelves don't have spikes. That wouldn't make much sense. grin
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 07/22/10 10:08 PM

Hmm. Seems like a reasonable change to me. I never used the spikes either. I wonder what other companies do? Ie: is there an industry standard/convention?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 07/22/10 10:12 PM

Yup, looks like you have to add the spikes via customize yours. $18USD for M80s, from what I see.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Version 3 - 07/22/10 10:16 PM

I'll bet most people use the rubber feet anyway.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 07/22/10 10:17 PM

Hard to say. I think I've got about 4 sets of spikes sitting in boxes, though...
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Version 3 - 07/22/10 10:20 PM

Me got 2 sets.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Version 3 - 07/22/10 10:33 PM

For the "flagship" product, little things such as spikes should be all included in the MSRP. For the other towers like the M60 and M50's it is a toss up IMO.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 07/22/10 10:37 PM

That's one way to look at it. Me, I hate waste. Spikes sitting in a drawer are pure waste. I would rather the flagship product cost $18 less.
Posted by: dewd

Re: Version 3 - 07/22/10 10:37 PM

IMO, once you start approaching $1000 for a speaker, $18 spikes should be included. Even my ultra cheap Fluance speakers included spikes.

Although I don't use them currently, I can imagine using them in the future. Guess I'll hang on to mine if (ok, when) I upgrade.
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Version 3 - 07/22/10 10:46 PM

Originally Posted By: kcarlile
The bookshelf models never included spikes.
LOL sorry for my lack of explanation but I was referring to the EP350. smile
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 07/22/10 11:19 PM

Well, the bookshelf EP350 shouldn't include spikes either.
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 12:15 AM

I have spares of both spikes and rubber feet so far, so it hasn't been an issue for me. If I was a new buyer, though, I would at least want it shown in an obvious way that they weren't included. Perhaps there should be a "Suggested Accessories" link in the shopping cart or something.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 12:18 AM

That's exactly what I was thinking CV.
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 02:30 AM

Originally Posted By: fredk
Well, the bookshelf EP350 shouldn't include spikes either.
Well in your point of view that might be a bookshelf, but from what I upgraded... LOL smile
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 07:44 AM

My EP175 that I returned and EP350 that I still have both came with spikes and I'm using them because currently it's sitting on carpet.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 07:58 AM

my ep500 came with spikes and rubber feet.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 09:44 AM

That sounds kinky.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 09:59 AM

It was the Fishnet Grill Cover that really turned the trick....
Posted by: SatKartr

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 10:28 AM

Financial considerations aside, I think it's great if they don't include the spikes without first determining whether the consumer wants them or not. I just cleaned up my junk room and threw out around 4 sets of spikes. I felt bad about it because it seemed wasteful and they look to be beautifully machined, but I just couldn't imagine ever using them.

Now watch, I'll move and have to special order some sets of spikes!

Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 10:37 AM

They haven't had a price increase in some while. If not automatically including spikes (which a fair number of people don't use) has allowed them to avoid a price increase, it makes sense to me.
Posted by: dewd

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 12:09 PM

I don't agree or disagree with their decision to not include spikes (although, as I stated before, "I" think they should include them). The problem I have with it is up to V3 they did include spikes and folks were expecting them. At least it should be very clear on the product page. I know it says rubber feet now instead of both, but IMO, it is not clear enough.

There are some very unhappy folks over at bluray.com now. Plus it seems there are some customer service issues.

I sure hope Axiom is not in trouble.
Posted by: bzbluray

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 12:36 PM

If they were to offer spikes or rubber feet as an option then people who use spikes would have them and vice versa.
I was one of the "ones" who ordered right at the change from v2 to v3, I had been seeing spikes on the website for weeks while I was making my decision(ordered 6/25, an order placed 6/20 by another got spikes)
I was using spikes on the speakers that the M80v3's replaced and I would have used them in this case if I had had the choice.
WUP
Posted by: PTPlayers

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 12:54 PM

Originally Posted By: dewd
I don't agree or disagree with their decision to not include spikes (although, as I stated before, "I" think they should include them). The problem I have with it is up to V3 they did include spikes and folks were expecting them. At least it should be very clear on the product page. I know it says rubber feet now instead of both, but IMO, it is not clear enough.

There are some very unhappy folks over at bluray.com now. Plus it seems there are some customer service issues.

I sure hope Axiom is not in trouble.


Since i am on carpet the rubber feet are useless to me .

Would have been nice to have the option
Posted by: bzbluray

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 01:07 PM

Just my 2 cents worth, if they were charging for the rubber feet as an "option" it might be a little bigger deal to those who are fine with the rubber feet :/WUP
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 01:22 PM

I haven't seen this charge for spikes yet. It would seam to me that a no cost option for either rubber feet or spikes would be more appropriate. And if a person wanted to order a set of 'premium' fancy spikes, they would come with an additional charge.

I do know that Axiom is working on the whole customization program to offer customers a slew of different options. This may just be one more step in that process.

I have hard wood floors all over the place so I hate it when stuff comes with spikes. They usually send you little pads to go under them, but they sure are a pain in the rear. Just try balancing a 70 pound speaker with spiked feet while trying to position them over the pads once.... which is something I have to do today. Oh joy, oh joy..
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 05:45 PM

Just slap some ostrich under there for balance, Mike.
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 06:17 PM

Originally Posted By: PTPlayers
Originally Posted By: dewd
I don't agree or disagree with their decision to not include spikes (although, as I stated before, "I" think they should include them). The problem I have with it is up to V3 they did include spikes and folks were expecting them. At least it should be very clear on the product page. I know it says rubber feet now instead of both, but IMO, it is not clear enough.

There are some very unhappy folks over at bluray.com now. Plus it seems there are some customer service issues.


I sure hope Axiom is not in trouble.


Since i am on carpet the rubber feet are useless to me .

Would have been nice to have the option


Sorry for the question, but why shouldn't I use rubber feet on carpet?
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 06:20 PM

No reason at all. Don't worry about it.

Some people just like the firm anchor that the spikes appear to provide on really thick carpet. But as long as your speakers don't sway in the breeze, they're firm enough.
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 06:29 PM

LOL Mine are all on the carpet. The M22's are on the Auralex Mopads that you have given me advice to get, if I am not mistaken. The sub is on rubber feet.
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 06:33 PM

Yeah, that was probably me, though someone else here originally recommended them to me. I like the MoPads, I have my center on them, along with the near-field monitors I have on my computer desk.
Posted by: PTPlayers

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 06:43 PM

Received my spikes today and while installing them i was trying to figure out why one wouldn't thread in and after turning the speaker over i realized that one of the inserts has no thread on it .

Not sure if tapping it wont spin the whole thing .

Sucks to be me.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 07:24 PM

Wow... call axiom?
Posted by: Glitchy

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 07:29 PM

Or just live with it......

/ - |
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 08:33 PM

Originally Posted By: wordgasm
Or just live with it......

/ - |



Or for 1300+ UDS Axiom can make it right.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 08:39 PM

Originally Posted By: dewd
I don't agree or disagree with their decision to not include spikes (although, as I stated before, "I" think they should include them). The problem I have with it is up to V3 they did include spikes and folks were expecting them. At least it should be very clear on the product page. I know it says rubber feet now instead of both, but IMO, it is not clear enough.

There are some very unhappy folks over at bluray.com now. Plus it seems there are some customer service issues.

I sure hope Axiom is not in trouble.


In the last year Axiom has done a lot of things that havenít made them look to good. I was hoping that having things vetted through the customer council would catch more of these. IMO changes to the web site not getting made and changes that are made not being clear comprise many of them. Someone needs to check these things better. A good CS reputation can go down hill quickly if enough unfavorable experiences get reported and repeated enough. It certainly wonít kill them but it canít help. Also, IMO CS starts before the purchase.

Iíll have to check out what they are saying at Blu-ray.com
Posted by: bzbluray

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 08:40 PM

Thank you Grunt,
I'm somewhat astonished by the attitude of some on this thread.
It is never a big deal if it's not happening to you.
Love my Axioms, just want to love the whole experience too.
WUP grin
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 11:25 PM

I'm going to respectfully suggest that being "astonished" by people's "attitudes" is somewhat of an overreaction in this case.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course. And - before flaming a company in public - I think it would be appropriate to give them the opportunity to make things right.
Posted by: medic8r

Re: Version 3 - 07/23/10 11:41 PM

Pipe down, fanboy!

::runs away for popcorn::
Posted by: bzbluray

Re: Version 3 - 07/24/10 12:05 AM

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
I'm going to respectfully suggest that being "astonished" by people's "attitudes" is somewhat of an overreaction in this case.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course. And - before flaming a company in public - I think it would be appropriate to give them the opportunity to make things right.

I agree, one email is not enough of an opportunity to make things right. I will be placing a phone call.
Maybe "astonished" is a little overboard and maybe the "learn to live with it" comment pushed me overboard (in addition to other comments)
Thank you for your input, I do not mean to flame if it appears that way, WUP
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Version 3 - 07/24/10 12:15 AM

My experience has been that Axiom is MUCH better at "phone" than at email. Good people work there.
Posted by: bzbluray

Re: Version 3 - 07/24/10 12:22 AM

Thanks TT,
That's the kind of input I was looking for.
I really do appreciate and react well to that kind of response.
I really do love the performance of my new system.
I won't have to take any Rolaids because of you-lol
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/24/10 12:41 AM

Originally Posted By: wattsurprglm

I agree, one email is not enough of an opportunity to make things right. I will be placing a phone call.
Maybe "astonished" is a little overboard and maybe the "learn to live with it" comment pushed me overboard (in addition to other comments)
Thank you for your input, I do not mean to flame if it appears that way, WUP


I donít think your reaction to the ďOr just live with itÖÖĒ comment was out of line.

I pay a lot of money (at least to me) for something expecting a certain set of items which had always been available only to get them changed w/o any fanfare Iíd be miffed especially if it wasnít handled to my satisfaction quickly. Iím sure Axiom has all the appropriate disclaimers about things changing but thatís not CS is CYA. When a product/service that has always been offered changes itís good CS to make prominent note of it for all to see just to avoid this sort of confusion. Maybe it doesnít make business sense to prominently note you are not longer offering something up front but IMO if you care about your customers you do it.

Not saying Axiom is doing anything intentional to screw with people but this has happened before and in a worse way with the EP500 amp change w/o corresponding update of the pictures. I hope Axiom takes notice and starts to tighten things up. I know of a couple more of these types of things Iíve reported via PM and seen corrected promptly. Perhaps we community members should try to help a little more and report things we see that are wrong or might seem misleading. As I mentioned above I had hoped this sort of vetting was going to be something asked of the customer council if not when noticed we should help out. Smart ass comment to people who at least in their minds feel slighted after dropping a wad of cash for a set of speakers doesn't help the customer or Axiom.

The most helpful post so far was is this one:

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle

My experience has been that Axiom is MUCH better at "phone" than at email. Good people work there.


Cheers,
Dean
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 07/24/10 01:12 AM

Phone versus email came up a while ago, and I sort of agree with the customer who thought that Axiom, being an internet direct business, should be all over the online aspect, including email. That's not to say they shouldn't also be available via the phone. I think customers should be able to rely on either method.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 07/24/10 01:23 AM

Email, by its very nature, is a much less immediate medium than a phone conversation. It's going to be slower in most instances. Now, a live chat feature might be a good middle ground, for those of us who detest using the phone.
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 07/24/10 01:36 AM

Yes, less immediate, but I've historically had much quicker replies from both OPPO and SVS. Live chat is a nice idea, but that would still require another body. If that body is going to be there, anyway, then they can be the one making the email replies happen quicker at the same time. Maybe?
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Version 3 - 07/24/10 01:50 AM

I think Axiom e-mail system is above average. Till I got the problem with the M22 and there was people on vacation. Whenever I e-mailed Noreen she would be writing me back in a 1 to 2 hour time frame. What I consider very satisfactory. Sending an order wrongly is a very serious matter IMO, but these things happen to the best and I don't blame Axiom, just think they should double check all order before dispatching them. So far I would say that I am satisfied with Axiom, but the best thing they have is this forum, so that would be really nice if the people who work at Axiom could take this forum to get closer to customers and their needs. The best CS I have seen so far in a company abroad ( for me ), is from Victoria's Secrets. I have bought some stuff for my wife and she didn't like the color of some and there was a huge difference between sizes of their different models. To every order they already give the customer the return shipping tag and also pay back shipping fees. Even though I live in Japan I was fully refunded the shipping cost of something my wife wanna exchange because she didn't like the color. That has really impressed me. Even here on Japan where most of the companies have very high level CS never have I seen something like that.
Posted by: Glitchy

Re: Version 3 - 07/24/10 07:21 AM

Sorry about the misunderstanding about "Just live with it"

The part you were supposed to be looking at was below ....

the bad visual representation of a leaning speaker.. / - |
Posted by: bzbluray

Re: Version 3 - 07/24/10 10:30 AM

Thank you for clearing that up,
My sense of humor wasn't at a good spot last night wink
I did as was suggested and called, talked to JC (asset to the company) and he is taking care of me grin
Now if I see where someone is in the same situation I was in I can let them know how I resolved it.
Hats off to Axiom for allowing less than complimentary input on their forum, there are some companies that censor eek
Love the SPEAKERS smile
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Version 3 - 07/24/10 03:03 PM

I do see that the "Customize Yours" option now does have the buyer select from: standard feet, custom feet, or spikes. So that's spelled out.

Plus, what I've been asking about. If Axiom really believes that bi-amping is a myth, and can't be accomplished with the passive crossovers in place, why do they still build the M80 with two sets of posts? Well, they've stepped up, and now if you want the placebo posts, you have to specially request them, and wait 10 days. Though there's no additional cost.
Posted by: sovkiller

Re: Version 3 - 07/24/10 03:58 PM

Originally Posted By: fredk
You crack me up Sovkiller. I would love to see the look on the face of your car dealer when you go in and ask for an upgrade to make your old car just like the new model. ... and for cheap.


The 2010 Ford Edge which will be comparable to he 2008 I drive, is exactly the same car from inside out, just different color. That analogy is completely ruled out in a decent world of mechanical engineering...

OTOH where are the benefits of the so called upgraded V3 Axioms, is there any posted specs we are all missing, or is just two or trheee raving fanboys claiming they are far better thant the previos V2 model an period???
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Version 3 - 07/24/10 04:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Sovkiller
is just two or trheee raving fanboys claiming they are far better thant the previos V2 model an period???

Wow. Inflammatory much?

I haven't seen anyone here post that the V3s are far better. Matter of fact, I don't remember seeing ANY user comparisons yet.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 07/24/10 04:36 PM

I suggest two asperine and don't post until the morning.

Alan did post how much better they were, but then he is the head marketing guy and should be a fanboy.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Version 3 - 07/24/10 04:37 PM

I know Axiom posted an anonymous review, but I don't think anyone here on the forums (customers) has....
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Version 3 - 07/24/10 05:02 PM

With the exception of comparing a new VP180 centre to M80 V2's, I think direct comparisons with the V2 and V3 M80s won't be too common as a matter of economics more than anything else.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 12:19 AM

If the V3s are sonically the same as V2s then Axiom shouldn't post reviews which say the V3s are better.

As to Alan Lofft, their resident flack, he speaks for Axiom, so if he says the V3s are sonically superior, then that's Axiom speaking.

Jc and Brent told me that the M3V3s sound the same, but of course that was only after my is it a V2 or V3 issue arose.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 12:21 AM

Yeah, Chris; I would've suggested a $1000 premium for the second set of posts.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 01:56 AM

2x6, it seems to me that you are being purposefully dense and/or misleading about the differences between late model V2s and V3s. Wasn't it you who opined on the importance of integrity?

They do sound the same, as has been pointed out many times, because the tweeter and crossover upgrades that are part of the V3 line have been shipping with V2s for quite some time. In fact, the only features found only on the new V3s are the magnetic grilles and the aluminum dustcaps.
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 02:05 AM

In the same note, the original V2s which rolled off the line after the Ti series gave up it's name, almost surely sound different than the last V2s which were produced in the week before the V3s surfaced.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 02:25 AM

Not directed at anyone in particular, just musing.

So the V3s sound like the V2s except when the donít. Got it. wink

BTW the review that kicked off this thread sure seemed to indicate that the changes ďto the M80s are not subtle,Ē and there are ďĒMAJOR changes to the M80s.Ē

This said with the understanding that the early V2s were not the same as the late V2s but we are told in the setup for the review that itĎs from ďa customer who has moved from the Version 2 to Version 3 M80s.ď No other specifics are noted. Since this review was posted by Axiom I would hope they feel it is accurate.


Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 02:50 AM

Even if the v3s aren't the major improvement the anonymous review claims, I'm still curious about the "higher end aspirations soon to come" referenced by Audioholics. I'm wondering what exact differences in components will make them higher-end. We know that more expensive crossover parts aren't getting the love, so does this mean a higher-end line of drivers, different cabinet materials/construction techniques, or both? Any theories?
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 03:11 AM

Originally Posted By: CV
Even if the v3s aren't the major improvement the anonymous review claims, I'm still curious about the "higher end aspirations soon to come" referenced by Audioholics. I'm wondering what exact differences in components will make them higher-end. We know that more expensive crossover parts aren't getting the love, so does this mean a higher-end line of drivers, different cabinet materials/construction techniques, or both? Any theories?


No idea except that with most things one quickly reaches a point of diminishing returns. If one's goal is to make an accurate sounding speaker Iím not sure how much more accurate you can make it per unit cost before things like room and placement issues overshadow incremental improvements for most people. IMO most people would realize a greater SQ improvement by spending the extra money on room treatments or other things than more expensive speakers, but unfortunately when making such purchases too many people loose sight of utility value spending their money on things that make small differences while overlooking the ones that might make big differences.

The issue of curtains/partitions we are discussing in the other thread is a perfect example of what Iím talking about. Instead of spending an additional $2,500 on ďbetterĒ speakers I bought curtains. The curtains do improve my SQ both by taming reflections making for more accurate reproduction of multi-channel tracks (real or DSP derived). They also minimize distractions which enhances the sense of ďbeing thereĒ in the move/concert. Audio perception isnít just about sound waves itís also about state of mind.

I think one of the biggest differences Axiom could make would be to produce some large 2-way designs. I like the wall-of-sound presentation of the M80s for most things but there are times especially for acoustical music prefer the more precise imaging and less forward sound of speakers like Seanís. While the M2s get close to the imaging but they donít have the bass extension I want out of a 2ch speaker.
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 04:53 AM

A large 2-way would be cool for Axiom to tackle. I was looking at Aperion before settling on Axiom, and they have offerings in that category. I've always been curious about the furniture-grade finishes that comes standard on their speakers. Has anyone here seen some Aperion speakers first-hand?
Posted by: FireGuy

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 09:02 AM

I addition to my M3ti's I own an Aperion 5C center (my brother has their 8D sub). The high grades Aperion receives for their furniture-grade finishes (I've got the cherry) is justified. It's first rate and gorgeous. I'm sure however that Axiom's finish upgrades are competative.
Posted by: HomeDad

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 12:08 PM

I still have an Aperion center in gloss black that I use in the bedroom, their basic finishes are top notch.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 12:32 PM

I guess Axiom should stop releasing incremental improvements within a realease for everyone to enjoy so as to maintian their release integrigy.

Some people are just plain stupid.
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 02:05 PM

Originally Posted By: R DeVries
The high grades Aperion receives for their furniture-grade finishes (I've got the cherry) is justified. It's first rate and gorgeous. I'm sure however that Axiom's finish upgrades are competative.


Nice to know. I may be tempted to get a pair of their bookshelf speakers someday just to see. I have no doubt Axiom's finish upgrades compete, but Aperion's are at a much more reasonable price, the downside of course being that they have way fewer options. I've also never been as convinced of the science behind their speaker design, which is why I went with Axiom in the first place.
Posted by: casey01

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 03:06 PM

Keep in mind, ALL of Aperions speakers are manufactured in the Far East which is, no doubt, why the fancier finishes are less costly than the Axiom line.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 04:24 PM

Originally Posted By: fredk

I guess Axiom should stop releasing incremental improvements within a realease for everyone to enjoy so as to maintian their release integrigy.

Some people are just plain stupid.



Or not open a thread claiming there are huge differences between the last two versions only to have to dial it back because it depends on when someone bought the previous version.

I have no problems with Axiom being proud of itís improvements nor rolling them out as soon as they become available, thatĎs a very customer oriented attitude which I donĎt think anyone else does routinely. I just think itís misleading posting a review indicating ďMAJORĒ improvements between the last two version when it really depends on when in the previous versions production cycle you purchased. While forum regulars might realize this implicitly those use to other manufactures rollout methods may not.

IMO they should have done a better job explaining it up front. Which gets back to the more general issue of the series of small miscues occurring over the course of the last year just because of these incremental changes not being well publicized. Probably better to call these PR and not CS issues but when the lack of PR effects customers perceptions of a company it becomes a CS issue.

Cheers,
Dean


Posted by: sovkiller

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 04:42 PM

Originally Posted By: fredk
I guess Axiom should stop releasing incremental improvements within a realease for everyone to enjoy so as to maintian their release integrigy.


I think that the second sentence, omited here in the quote, was out of line, non called for, and more applies to your last comment now, than to any other in particular...

What Axiom did is perfectly right, nobody is complining of the change they made, if it was just for the better...Just that the way they did it, was not right...Releasing the same model with two different type of drivers in it, and not letting the customer know which you will get before hand, or worst to guess which you will get (even less with drivers of a future one, that should be reserved for that new model only) and BTW that may or not sound alike, while you expect to receive a product that has been established for decades, with a particular sound, and that you know, and expect to sound that way, and then while the customer call they can say whatever they want, as there is no evidence of the opposite, sounds a little not too right in my book...Sorry...

Now I'm assuming applying that same logic they used, that if one of your old drivers blow away after warranty, you have to get the new ones, that are different, or take the word from them that they will sound alike, or they will offer then the whole upgrade package, as they do not have any of the old ones in stock...(???)
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 07:04 PM

Excuse me if I'm just saying what has already been said, but I just wanted to give my .02 cents.

I definitely think there has been too much blurring between the pre-change V2 and the new V3. And I think that's where all of the confusion lies. There should have been a definite line drawn between the 2 series so one knows what he's getting up front and not having to worry about some hybridization. It's like buying a new receiver that has some new features, but some of them have the new feature and some of them don't. I wouldn't want to purchase anything from that company because I'm not sure what I would get.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 07:18 PM

pmbuko wrote:

2x6, it seems to me that you are being purposefully dense and/or misleading about the differences between late model V2s and V3s. Wasn't it you who opined on the importance of integrity?

fredK wrote:

I guess Axiom should stop releasing incremental improvements within a realease for everyone to enjoy so as to maintian their release integrigy.

Some people are just plain stupid.


Sounds like pmbuko thinks that he's on the people's committee to enforce conformity and happy thoughts on the website, and if not, he will insult you.

Sounds like FredK is showing his stuff hoping for a spot on the people's committee.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 07:30 PM

I truly believe we're talking about *incremental* changes, so imo people should keep their perspective in this regard. I was thinking along the lines of what Dean has brought up a couple of posts ago. If you were to compare Ti's to the V3's I'm sure that most people could say "there is a noticeable difference" if they AB'd them, where someone who compares speakers through just 1 step or change like a V2 to V3, may notice a more subtle if any difference(to the less accurate ear).

This is no different than the incremental changes that Paradigm makes to their lineup every couple of years. The Studio line is on "V6" afaik...someone comparing the V5 to V6 may hardly notice any audible difference, change that to a V1 or V2 to a comparo with the V5 or V6 and I'm sure you'd get most people agreeing on the differences.

Most of this "flap" is reg the over-the-top anonymous review....we don't have any idea what the persons benchmark was.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 07:38 PM

Quote:
Sounds like FredK is showing his stuff hoping for a spot on the people's committee.

Sorry no, just pointing out your stupidity in the matter. Sombody has to say it.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 07:48 PM

Just checked Paradigm's site, they've completely revamped it.
Posted by: FireGuy

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 07:54 PM

On Paradigm's site, I'm liking that woman dancer in black. Women like that always make loudspeakers sound better. Axiom?
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 07:59 PM

Well, at least the Paradigm site gave me a new signature line...
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 08:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Adrian
I truly believe we're talking about *incremental* changes, so imo people should keep their perspective in this regard. I was thinking along the lines of what Dean has brought up a couple of posts ago. If you were to compare Ti's to the V3's I'm sure that most people could say "there is a noticeable difference" if they AB'd them, where someone who compares speakers through just 1 step or change like a V2 to V3, may notice a more subtle if any difference(to the less accurate ear).

This is no different than the incremental changes that Paradigm makes to their lineup every couple of years. The Studio line is on "V6" afaik...someone comparing the V5 to V6 may hardly notice any audible difference, change that to a V1 or V2 to a comparo with the V5 or V6 and I'm sure you'd get most people agreeing on the differences.

Most of this "flap" is reg the over-the-top anonymous review....we don't have any idea what the persons benchmark was.


Excellent perspective Adrian. It was this very incremental improvement process that lead me to buy my M80 center a couple years ago, long before I needed it. I didnít want to get caught by the improvement process causing enough of a change in the M80s that I would notice the difference with my older ones. Just got lucky that I could actually use it back then. And no w/o looking at the serial numbers I could tell which is which.

Now had I bought my speakers from many other manufactures they likely would have announced a new model and had a clearance on any of the old stock so in all likelihood I would have had warning of the changes and been informed enough if not able to act accordingly. Knowing about Axiomís incremental improvement process allowed me to anticipate this.

OTOH had I just recently bought towers instead of a pair of surround and pair of bookshelf speakers I would have been quite miffed not to receive an accessory pack with spikes. How many of us read the details of the product pages having been around for some time, or in the case of a new customer had some speakers in the cart for some time before deciding to pull the trigger.

I had expected that these sort of changes would be vetted through the customer council which having a customerís perspective would have caught some of these PR issues and prevented them causing confusion. Not knowing the councils actual mandate I may have been mistaken.

I submit that because of Axioms constant incremental product improvement process that they would benefit from maintaining on the website the equivalent of a software ďchange log.Ē There is already a perfect place for it as a ďstickyĒ at the top of the ďWhatís New At AxiomĒ sub-forum which actually misses talking about most of what is new. Having a separate change log would leave open individual threads for major developments like a new model release such as the VP180, or announcements of version number updates.

I really think that Axiom should consider implementing something like this for no other reason that to create a focal point for progress reporting which may in turn help prevent updates to the web page being missed and other PR issues from arising.

Just a thought,
Dean
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 08:11 PM

Originally Posted By: fredk
Quote:
Sounds like FredK is showing his stuff hoping for a spot on the people's committee.

Sorry no, just pointing out your stupidity in the matter. Sombody has to say it.


Yes, Fred. Intelligent people don't usually confuse name-calling with reasoned discussion.

So, Fred, everyone here who questions the bumpy V2-V3 transition and Axiom's candor regarding the matter is also "stupid"?
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 08:25 PM

Quote:
So, Fred, everyone here who questions the bumpy V2-V3 transition and Axiom's candor regarding the matter is also "stupid"?

Lets be clear here. I am addressing you and you alone.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 08:29 PM

Originally Posted By: fredk
Quote:
So, Fred, everyone here who questions the bumpy V2-V3 transition and Axiom's candor regarding the matter is also "stupid"?

Lets be clear here. I am addressing you and you alone.


It sure didnít come across that way.

Sniper rifles work better than shotguns in such cases. wink
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 08:55 PM

At the risk of furthering a discussion that I wish would die.....

The only mistake I see Axiom making was showing the old cones and shipping the new ones.

Other than that, did anyone receive LESS than what they paid for? It seems as though people either received exactly what they paid for, or some "enhanced, updated" version of what they paid for.

I'm not saying everything's perfect, but it seems to me that the people who are bitching the most got MORE than they paid for.... they're just upset because they didn't receive even more than more...
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 09:10 PM

Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
Originally Posted By: fredk
Quote:
Sounds like FredK is showing his stuff hoping for a spot on the people's committee.

Sorry no, just pointing out your stupidity in the matter. Sombody has to say it.


Yes, Fred. Intelligent people don't usually confuse name-calling with reasoned discussion.

So, Fred, everyone here who questions the bumpy V2-V3 transition and Axiom's candor regarding the matter is also "stupid"?



My IQ just dropped by agreeing with you. wink




Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Version 3 - 07/25/10 09:30 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson

I'm not saying everything's perfect, but it seems to me that the people who are bitching the most got MORE than they paid for.... they're just upset because they didn't receive even more than more...


+1
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 12:10 AM

terzaghi, I've made my peace with Axiom. I accept their explanation that my V2s are really V3s. OK, i let it rest.

But as to your comments, the issue isn't getting more than we paid for, but getting the V3s we did pay for.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 06:03 AM

David was quoting me, just to keep the record straight.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 11:02 AM

Tiger's love pepper. They hate Cinnamon!
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 11:05 AM

We need another cartoon!
Posted by: tdmrr

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 12:55 PM

I have to agree with the guys who are not impressed with this V3 rollout! I have been lurking on this forum since Jan '09. I bought a pair of new M80's May/09.I liked them for the price and bought a pair of outlet M60's May/10. It was never mentioned that V3's would be coming shortly.The part that bothers me most is the first post on this thread. V3 is so much better than V2.Really? Way to alienate all the V2 owners. I am happy with my speakers, again for the money (I believe Paradigm,Psb,Monitor are worth the extra money)I know I could have parts in my speakers that are V3 but I don't want to know! I would have trust what axiom says and besides I can't prove it. Imagine when I go to upgrade and sell these."They say V2 everywhere but they're really V3 inside V2 outside".Yeah sure buddy!For now I will enjoy my speakers but I honestly will not buy from them again. Shallow? Maybe but this episode along with poor customer service (gasp!I said it) and the unwavering fanboy responses (M80,M22 bright!NO WAY!!Must be the source or your room,these speakers are the greatest most neutral speakers ever created!!) have sent me back to the local HI-FI.
Bit of a rant but it has built up over the last few weeks.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 01:28 PM

Post deleted by me.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 01:52 PM

Nobody better buy a new car this year. I hear there's a newer one coming out next year.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 01:59 PM

Originally Posted By: tdmrr
I bought a pair of new M80's May/09.I liked them for the price and bought a pair of outlet M60's May/10.{{SNIPPED}} (M80,M22 bright!NO WAY!!Must be the source or your room,these speakers are the greatest most neutral speakers ever created!!


So, your first post here was to tell us that you bought speakers and liked them so much after a full year of listening that you bought another pair. But you don't like them now? Because they ARE bright or something?

Sniff-sniff. Smells like troll in here.
Posted by: HomeDad

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 02:19 PM

Quote:
So, your first post here was to tell us that you bought speakers and liked them so much after a full year of listening that you bought another pair. But you don't like them now? Because they ARE bright or something?

Sniff-sniff. Smells like troll in here.


I'll admit that was the first thing that popped into my mind, even after reading it several times and trying to be objective.
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 02:25 PM

I think we'd do better not using the terms "troll" or "fanboy."
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 02:32 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Originally Posted By: tdmrr
I bought a pair of new M80's May/09.I liked them for the price and bought a pair of outlet M60's May/10.{{SNIPPED}} (M80,M22 bright!NO WAY!!Must be the source or your room,these speakers are the greatest most neutral speakers ever created!!


So, your first post here was to tell us that you bought speakers and liked them so much after a full year of listening that you bought another pair. But you don't like them now? Because they ARE bright or something?

Sniff-sniff. Smells like troll in here.



Well, tdmrr, and a Great Axiom Welcome to You from one of the Axiom website Enforcers.

Whether you fellas realize it or not, you are making Axiom look very bad. You are alienating long time owners and forum members and insulting new participants.

Mark, you are acting like a troll and fanboy. The rest of you offensive fanboys know who you are as well.
Posted by: tdmrr

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 02:44 PM

Sorry no troll here. Thanks for reinforcing my fanboy comment with your responses. I am not trying to be hostile just stating my opinions. If you don't understand my post I will explain whatever is confusing you. I assume my post will be deleted but I thought it was pretty concise.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 03:19 PM

Welcome tdmrr.

All opinions are welcome. Axiom is one of the very few companies (ID) left in this industry that DOES NOT censor customer feedback of any kind. Customer feedback, both positive and negative is a GOOD thing. For that, they should be given a lot of credit for and be very proud of.

So to answer your question your post(s) will not be deleted. I have not seen one yet in the few years I have been here.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 03:45 PM

The negotiator in me can see so many places where this conversation could be brought back to ground level and both sides could easily find middle ground on the facts presented and finally pass the rest off as inevitable differences of personal opinion. However, the Internet Guy in me tells me that facilitation in a web board forum is almost always doomed to failure.

The best that one can hope for is that you can drop a polite hint that perhaps the thread has reached it's saturation level and is no longer productive for either side to participate in.

Actually that never works either. It often just becomes a challenge for a few folks to prove that they can rise above having to end the conversation and can return to logic. While that would be a good thing, this is again almost always doomed to failure as well, due to the inevitable misinterpretations and the simple fact that there are soooo many participants that it is impossible to come to a consensus or avoid a spark from someone who gets frustrated.

In short and without taking sides, this thread has reached it's saturation point and is likely no longer capable of producing a useful outcome for anyone. I also applaud Axiom for not locking or censoring threads but perhaps it is time this thread had a voluntary retirement from it's participants.

Posted by: HomeDad

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 03:47 PM

tdmrr,

Your opinions are welcome here and I have never seen Axiom delete a post.

No disrespect meant but I am still confused by your initial post. Perhaps I read it wrong but to me it sounded like you bought your M60's after not being satisfied with you M80's. Then you went on to bash customer service as well as other forum members. Imo not a good introduction to the forum.

I'll agree with you as I'm sure many of the long time members of this forum will, that the roll out of the v3's could have been done better. I've also been taken back by some of the unprofessional comments made to others that had legitimate concerns about their Axiom products. Hopefully this thread will do something to correct that.

I think the use of fanboy and troll are getting bandied about way too often, I think constructive comments would go a long way in bringing this forum back to the way I remembered it.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 03:55 PM

Nice post, Michael.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 04:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Murph
Tiger's love pepper. They hate Cinnamon!


I walked today
Posted by: tdmrr

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 04:26 PM

Thank-you for the welcome. I was trying to say that I thought the V3 roll-out was done in a slightly offensive way to current V2 owners and in my opinion could have been handled better(when looking at m80v3 specs it was showing pics of V2 etc)I guess I also snuck in my opinion of some of the frequent posters. My speakers sound good (not too bright)I will enjoy them for a few years, but when I go looking for my next set I will most likely be a different brand. I don't want to write a book so I won't explain all the reasons.

As to the new car comment, we are different-I will wait for the new model- the current one will depreciate way to fast!
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 05:17 PM

Originally Posted By: tdmrr
Sorry no troll here. Thanks for reinforcing my fanboy comment with your responses. I am not trying to be hostile just stating my opinions. If you don't understand my post I will explain whatever is confusing you. I assume my post will be deleted but I thought it was pretty concise.


tdmrr, I was not referring to you as either a troll or a fanboy. I figure you for a new participant who received an unfriendly welcome. Sorry if I was not more clear.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 05:32 PM

I don't think he was actually referring to you 2x6. If you use the quick reply it automatically shows Re:(username) from the previous message which happened to be you in this case.
Posted by: tdmrr

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 05:41 PM

Yeah sorry I was referring to the others. Without re-reading this entire thread I think your one the people I agree with.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 06:01 PM

Quote:
I was referring to the others


Yeah, I liked Lost, too.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 06:32 PM

Originally Posted By: grunt


I had expected that these sort of changes would be vetted through the customer council which having a customerís perspective would have caught some of these PR issues and prevented them causing confusion. Not knowing the councils actual mandate I may have been mistaken.

I submit that because of Axioms constant incremental product improvement process that they would benefit from maintaining on the website the equivalent of a software ďchange log.Ē There is already a perfect place for it as a ďstickyĒ at the top of the ďWhatís New At AxiomĒ sub-forum which actually misses talking about most of what is new. Having a separate change log would leave open individual threads for major developments like a new model release such as the VP180, or announcements of version number updates.

I really think that Axiom should consider implementing something like this for no other reason that to create a focal point for progress reporting which may in turn help prevent updates to the web page being missed and other PR issues from arising.

Just a thought,
Dean


Our mandate, at least as far as Iím aware, does not really exist in the rigid definition of the word. It is not a formal process with a concentrated focus towards vetting things by us. We have periodic teleconferences with Ian, Allan, Andrew, Peter and whoever else may be available that particular time. We then re-cap what was discussed via phone with a summery email, which we provide further input on. Usually, the meeting starts out with any new news that Axiom wants to discuss with the collective group. We then have an informal round table where ideas can be thrown out for discussion.

Regarding the V3 launch, we did discuss it and its timing. The timing was centered around the VP180 launch. It just made sense seeing how it was going to be shipped with all the revisions and it would surely get some focus seeing how the drivers look different and it has the magnetic grills.

In all honesty, I did not anticipate the V3 launch to go over like a lead balloon, much like it has. Axiom has always Ďtweakedí their speakers somewhat. They just donít go around giving them a new version designation every time they do this. Over time, as many little tweaks add up collectively, they give their speakers a new designation. This has been commented on numerous times by Axiom personnel. I can not ever remember a version change that has caught this much attention. So, when considering the past version launches over the years, I just did not think so many people would be incensed over it to this degree. The only suggestion that I have made about the revisions, is for Axiom to post a timeline from Ti to now, with all the changes incorporated to date and their level of significance. I felt (and still do feel) that if current owners new what level of change there has been between what they currently have and the latest revision, some may want to ďupgradeĒ. I for one, want to upgrade my Tiís because quite frankly, I have always found the upper end to be too unforgiving and I find the latest upper end much more pleasing. Iím certain that some will think my motives for this are because they think Iím a fan boy and attempting to assist Axiom sell more speakers. This is not my intent. I love the way my M80ís sound - for the most part. Itís just that damn high end that I have always, from day one; felt was too harsh (at times). The mid and lower end are perfect to me and now with the latest changes, the upper end is perfect for me as well.

So in summery to your thoughts Dean, Axiom does vet things by us. But you have to remember that we are only four fellow A/V geeks with our own thoughts and perceptions. We can not possibly speak for everyone. We are not all knowing mind readers either. There are things you pick up on that never enter my mind. Whatís important to you may or may not be important to me.

And, I like your idea of a change log. It is in a sense, what I have asked for already.
Posted by: PTPlayers

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 06:34 PM

Originally Posted By: PTPlayers
Received my spikes today and while installing them i was trying to figure out why one wouldn't thread in and after turning the speaker over i realized that one of the inserts has no thread on it .

Not sure if tapping it wont spin the whole thing .

Sucks to be me.


Well good news , i borrowed a tapp set off a friend of mine and i successfully was able to bore new threads into the insert with no issues .

Rob
Posted by: HomeDad

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 07:10 PM

Quote:
I can not ever remember a version change that has caught this much attention.


I agree Michael, and I think If that the very first post in this thread with it's anonymous glowing review of the new v3's had not been posted the version change would have gone over without as much notice or fuss. I'm still wondering how many folks out there have the v3's knowingly or unknowingly and haven't noticed a difference. I'm still waiting for someone who has had both to make a comparison.

Rob

Glad to hear you got you resolved the issues with your spikes.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 07:19 PM

Originally Posted By: PTPlayers
Originally Posted By: PTPlayers
Received my spikes today and while installing them i was trying to figure out why one wouldn't thread in and after turning the speaker over i realized that one of the inserts has no thread on it .

Not sure if tapping it wont spin the whole thing .

Sucks to be me.


Well good news , i borrowed a tapp set off a friend of mine and i successfully was able to bore new threads into the insert with no issues .

Rob


I'm glad you found a solution. Its not ideal, but is does allow you to set up the speakers the way you wanted and enjoy them.

I wonder if Axiom is going to put something in place to avoid this issue in the future. Something simple like threading a spike into each hole a couple of turns at the end of line to verify all inserts are threaded. Thats the kind of thing we do in automotive manufacturing all the time.
Posted by: PTPlayers

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 07:23 PM

Originally Posted By: fredk
Originally Posted By: PTPlayers
Originally Posted By: PTPlayers
Received my spikes today and while installing them i was trying to figure out why one wouldn't thread in and after turning the speaker over i realized that one of the inserts has no thread on it .

Not sure if tapping it wont spin the whole thing .

Sucks to be me.


Well good news , i borrowed a tapp set off a friend of mine and i successfully was able to bore new threads into the insert with no issues .

Rob


I'm glad you found a solution. Its not ideal, but is does allow you to set up the speakers the way you wanted and enjoy them.

I wonder if Axiom is going to put something in place to avoid this issue in the future. Something simple like threading a spike into each hole a couple of turns at the end of line to verify all inserts are threaded. Thats the kind of thing we do in automotive manufacturing all the time.


I will call them and let them know to hopefully avoid this in the future .
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 07:55 PM

Originally Posted By: michael_d
Originally Posted By: grunt


I had expected that these sort of changes would be vetted through the customer council which having a customerís perspective would have caught some of these PR issues and prevented them causing confusion. Not knowing the councils actual mandate I may have been mistaken.

I submit that because of Axioms constant incremental product improvement process that they would benefit from maintaining on the website the equivalent of a software ďchange log.Ē There is already a perfect place for it as a ďstickyĒ at the top of the ďWhatís New At AxiomĒ sub-forum which actually misses talking about most of what is new. Having a separate change log would leave open individual threads for major developments like a new model release such as the VP180, or announcements of version number updates.

I really think that Axiom should consider implementing something like this for no other reason that to create a focal point for progress reporting which may in turn help prevent updates to the web page being missed and other PR issues from arising.

Just a thought,
Dean


Our mandate, at least as far as Iím aware, does not really exist in the rigid definition of the word. It is not a formal process with a concentrated focus towards vetting things by us. We have periodic teleconferences with Ian, Allan, Andrew, Peter and whoever else may be available that particular time. We then re-cap what was discussed via phone with a summery email, which we provide further input on. Usually, the meeting starts out with any new news that Axiom wants to discuss with the collective group. We then have an informal round table where ideas can be thrown out for discussion.

Regarding the V3 launch, we did discuss it and its timing. The timing was centered around the VP180 launch. It just made sense seeing how it was going to be shipped with all the revisions and it would surely get some focus seeing how the drivers look different and it has the magnetic grills.

In all honesty, I did not anticipate the V3 launch to go over like a lead balloon, much like it has. Axiom has always Ďtweakedí their speakers somewhat. They just donít go around giving them a new version designation every time they do this. Over time, as many little tweaks add up collectively, they give their speakers a new designation. This has been commented on numerous times by Axiom personnel. I can not ever remember a version change that has caught this much attention. So, when considering the past version launches over the years, I just did not think so many people would be incensed over it to this degree. The only suggestion that I have made about the revisions, is for Axiom to post a timeline from Ti to now, with all the changes incorporated to date and their level of significance. I felt (and still do feel) that if current owners new what level of change there has been between what they currently have and the latest revision, some may want to ďupgradeĒ. I for one, want to upgrade my Tiís because quite frankly, I have always found the upper end to be too unforgiving and I find the latest upper end much more pleasing. Iím certain that some will think my motives for this are because they think Iím a fan boy and attempting to assist Axiom sell more speakers. This is not my intent. I love the way my M80ís sound - for the most part. Itís just that damn high end that I have always, from day one; felt was too harsh (at times). The mid and lower end are perfect to me and now with the latest changes, the upper end is perfect for me as well.

So in summery to your thoughts Dean, Axiom does vet things by us. But you have to remember that we are only four fellow A/V geeks with our own thoughts and perceptions. We can not possibly speak for everyone. We are not all knowing mind readers either. There are things you pick up on that never enter my mind. Whatís important to you may or may not be important to me.

And, I like your idea of a change log. It is in a sense, what I have asked for already.


Thanks for the info, especially about how the customer counsel operates. Perhaps you might want to re-post that part over in the CC thread as I think it would be helpful to anyone wondering the counsel is about. Iím afraid many people even some regulars have confused the counsel with being some sort of moderators/ambassadors to the forum rather than what Iíve always assumed was suppose to be a sounding board for Axiom to use.

I suspect but donít know that the reason the V3 launch may not have been as smooth as the V2, though some said once that wasnít so smooth either, is five fold. The look, a more immediate difference since one doesnít even need to hear the speaker is striking. The magnetic grills for those who have experience with such things is IMO a huge improvement even though it doesnít effect the sound. And the initial review which started this thread wasnít tempered by the explanation of how Axiom incrementally upgrades their speakers. Something most forum regulars know but I imagine other donít. Plus, I imagine that Axioms potential customer base has grown since the V2 launch, plus the VP180 rollout probably meant there were a lot more people checking things out and ordering. More orders creates more potential for misunderstanding even when something as small as not automatically including spikes happens. Finally, making so many changes at once means all the change/growth ďissuesĒ that arise tend to get lumped together even if they are not directly related to the V3 launch.

I think all the changes Axiom has made, spikes, binding post, grills . . . are all for the better Iím just trying in my way to openly communicate to Axiom that they need to rethink how they handle their PR, especially when making so many changes, small or otherwise, at the same time. I note this because this isnít the first, time in the last year the ball has been dropped when communicating a change, resulting in irritated customers. Though I have no proof of it Axiom has become a bigger player in the speaker market thus drawing more attention than we all may realize, methinks.

Iím glad you have expressed an interest some sort of change log. I do appreciate that Axiom re-designates speakers when the accumulated changes become significant. However, I do think that maintaining a customer accessible change log may help people looking to buy new, upgrade or buy used speakers. Just like software change logs they could have decimal changes between major revisions.

Cheers,
Dean
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 08:27 PM

I too would love to see a change log, but worry that it would cause more V3-like responses with each update.

I understand why manufacturers don't say, "we have a new product coming out in two months to replace our previous version." When they do that, all sales stop for two months. But in the same vein, when a new product gets a surprise release those who just purchased a short time before feel taken, that if they had known they would have waited.

Physical products are not like software in this regard. If a new version of a program comes out right after you buy, you can usually upgrade for free. Smaller bug fixes are always available for free to registered users. So the analogy isn't 100%.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 09:04 PM

Well written Chris. Those who bought just prior at lease get the accoustic benefits of the new version.

I can see that it would be frustrating for those who wanted the magnetic grills or new look drivers.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 11:43 PM

I agree that a company shouldnít normally pre-announce a new version since as you say it will postpone sales.

But I donít see posting previous changes some period, causing to many problems. Perhaps Iím wrong. Based on what Iíve read someone can call Axiom with their serial number and apparently get specific information about what components their speakers contain. Maybe just making that better known is a step in the right direction.

As for frustration if someone missed an upgrade Fred, well thatís already happened many times irregardless of a change log being updated after the new features are released.

Even if Axiom finds that something like a change log isnít worthwhile they still need to get a handle on how they introduce new products and how to do multiple changes at the same time w/o alienating people who thought that they were getting something else between when the put something in their cart and actually ordered it.

Maybe this is just growing pains because Axiom is expanding/changing things rapidly. I can not, however, call a company like Emotiva for something like this and in good conscience not also do so when I see Axiom doing the same thing.

I will never accept that outstanding customer service doesnít start before the purchase. And IMO Axiom has recently on some occasions been dropping the ball on that aspect of CS which IMO downgrades them to an excellent at best.
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Version 3 - 07/26/10 11:56 PM

Originally Posted By: grunt
I agree that a company shouldnít normally pre-announce a new version since as you say it will postpone sales.

But I donít see posting previous changes some period, causing to many problems. Perhaps Iím wrong. Based on what Iíve read someone can call Axiom with their serial number and apparently get specific information about what components their speakers contain. Maybe just making that better known is a step in the right direction.

As for frustration if someone missed an upgrade Fred, well thatís already happened many times irregardless of a change log being updated after the new features are released.

Even if Axiom finds that something like a change log isnít worthwhile they still need to get a handle on how they introduce new products and how to do multiple changes at the same time w/o alienating people who thought that they were getting something else between when the put something in their cart and actually ordered it.

Maybe this is just growing pains because Axiom is expanding/changing things rapidly. I can not, however, call a company like Emotiva for something like this and in good conscience not also do so when I see Axiom doing the same thing.

I will never accept that outstanding customer service doesnít start before the purchase. And IMO Axiom has recently on some occasions been dropping the ball on that aspect of CS which IMO downgrades them to an excellent at best.


LOL I got my order on the right time of transition being able to get the v3 total package, but still there is one speaker missing that supposedly was shipped last week on Thursday, in which case I would have already gotten they here. I e-mailed Axiom asking for the tracking number so I could get a right delivery time frame and they couldn't find one, so I was told they would get back at me on Monday since the factory was closed. As for now has been no contact from Axiom so far and no tracking number at all. That's really frustrating since it's been 5 weeks I paid Axiom and still don't have my whole set delivered and no prospective of when it will. Even though I like the speakers a lot I am definitely considering sending all back. That's sad but Axiom has given me a real bad shopping experience so far.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Version 3 - 07/27/10 12:12 AM

Originally Posted By: michael_d
But you have to remember that we are only four fellow A/V geeks with our own thoughts and perceptions. We can not possibly speak for everyone.

As a member of the council, I feel this point needs to be stressed. The council is simply four customers (and active forum members) who Axiom invited to take part in a more direct feedback method. We are sounding boards, but we are in no way trying to speak for anyone but ourselves. (That kind of responsibility comes with elected positions.)

The council will turn over. Any one of us can leave at will, or if we do not, our stints will be up after a year or two, at which time Axiom will choose other members. So don't burn your bridges now if you want the chance to take part. grin
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Version 3 - 07/27/10 12:21 AM

Originally Posted By: HomeDad
I'm still waiting for someone who has had both to make a comparison.

I have M22tis and on-wall M22s (v3). I prefer the high end of the on-walls. It's been a while since I compared them (and even then it was not A/B, but cable switching), but I will say that the top end sounds more "refined". I never had a problem with the top end of my bookshelf M22s, so it's the kind of difference that probably needs closely spaced listening sessions to really appreciate.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/27/10 01:01 AM

Originally Posted By: pmbuko

So don't burn your bridges now if you want the chance to take part.


My theme song is the same as my avatarís movie. wink
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 07/27/10 01:02 AM

Originally Posted By: pmbuko
our stints will be up after a year or two


Wait, wait, I had only heard of it lasting one year. Now it's one or two?
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 07/27/10 01:07 AM

Originally Posted By: Ichigo_Kurosaki

LOL I got my order on the right time of transition being able to get the v3 total package, but still there is one speaker missing that supposedly was shipped last week on Thursday, in which case I would have already gotten they here. I e-mailed Axiom asking for the tracking number so I could get a right delivery time frame and they couldn't find one, so I was told they would get back at me on Monday since the factory was closed. As for now has been no contact from Axiom so far and no tracking number at all. That's really frustrating since it's been 5 weeks I paid Axiom and still don't have my whole set delivered and no prospective of when it will. Even though I like the speakers a lot I am definitely considering sending all back. That's sad but Axiom has given me a real bad shopping experience so far.


Personally I would base my decision to keep or return speakers based primarily on whether I liked them or not. I would have to have an awful CS experience to return something I liked. If nothing else you should ask Axiom to reset your 30 day return period to reflect when you receive youíre complete package so you can have a true 30 day evaluation period of the whole system since a center speaker is fairly important. Canít hurt to ask.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Version 3 - 07/27/10 01:26 AM

Quote:
our stints will be up after a year or two

I think Ian wants there to be some continuity of membership between councils. Maybe we'll draw straws after a year to see who gets to stay.
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 07/27/10 01:45 AM

That's a good idea. About have a mix of veterans and newbies in the council, not drawing straws. Surely we can think of something better than drawing straws.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Version 3 - 07/27/10 07:47 AM

Paper rock scissors?
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Version 3 - 07/27/10 09:15 AM

Via internet? That would take some kind of co-ordination laugh
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 07/27/10 12:41 PM

Originally Posted By: CV
About have a mix


Maybe council members could compete in sounding like the biggest idiot.
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 07/27/10 12:44 PM

That almost sounds like I'm insulting council members, but just to be clear, I was only inspired by my own ability to sound stupid, thus the quoted text.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Version 3 - 07/27/10 12:46 PM

I know an insult when I see one.
Posted by: PTPlayers

Re: Version 3 - 07/28/10 02:10 PM

Originally Posted By: fredk
Originally Posted By: PTPlayers
Originally Posted By: PTPlayers
Received my spikes today and while installing them i was trying to figure out why one wouldn't thread in and after turning the speaker over i realized that one of the inserts has no thread on it .

Not sure if tapping it wont spin the whole thing .

Sucks to be me.


Well good news , i borrowed a tapp set off a friend of mine and i successfully was able to bore new threads into the insert with no issues .

Rob


I'm glad you found a solution. Its not ideal, but is does allow you to set up the speakers the way you wanted and enjoy them.

I wonder if Axiom is going to put something in place to avoid this issue in the future. Something simple like threading a spike into each hole a couple of turns at the end of line to verify all inserts are threaded. Thats the kind of thing we do in automotive manufacturing all the time.


I just spoke with Brent and let him know about what happened with the insert .

So hopefully no one else has this issue .

Rob
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 08/01/10 03:17 AM

Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
If Axiom really believes that bi-amping is a myth, and can't be accomplished with the passive crossovers in place, why do they still build the M80 with two sets of posts? Well, they've stepped up, and now if you want the placebo posts, you have to specially request them, and wait 10 days. Though there's no additional cost.


Did this change? The product page still says it's no additional cost, but if you go into the Customize Yours, it says it's +$40.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Version 3 - 08/01/10 03:55 AM

Charles, in an earlier reply I'd expressed my dismay at learning that no additional charge would be made for the second set of terminals, and offered the suggestion that a $1000 premium would be appropriate. Perhaps progress is being made.
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 08/01/10 05:29 AM

laugh
Posted by: sovkiller

Re: Version 3 - 08/01/10 10:21 PM

Originally Posted By: jakewash

So if you had bought some Paradigm's would you be expecting the same part replacement ability from them?

I do agree the prices seem/are high and wonder if Axiom has considered special pricing for a full kit(2 speakers), ie 4 5.25 drivers, 2 tweeters and 2 crossover for M22, opposed to individual component pricing.


I do not know if Paradigm ever offer any upgrade, but if you decided to do it, IMO it is nothing special to expect that you will be realistic with the prices, specially with your previous customers, otherwise just say no and period, nobody expected nor forced Axiom to offer any upgrade, we just asked them if they would like to offer it...And please do not bring Paradigm here, their performance is not in the same league, and their policies and prices shouldn't be in the same league neither...
Posted by: Scamp

Re: Version 3 - 08/04/10 01:03 PM

At this point are any orders placed with the Factory Outlet guaranteed to be v3'S?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 08/04/10 01:04 PM

That would be a question for Axiom.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Version 3 - 08/04/10 01:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Sovkiller

I do not know if Paradigm ever offer any upgrade, but if you decided to do it, IMO it is nothing special to expect that you will be realistic with the prices, specially with your previous customers, otherwise just say no and period, nobody expected nor forced Axiom to offer any upgrade, we just asked them if they would like to offer it...And please do not bring Paradigm here, their performance is not in the same league, and their policies and prices shouldn't be in the same league neither...
Actually Paradigm is a good comparison as the Studio series is very comparable in SQ to Axiom's and as far as I know they have never offered upgrade parts available to the public after new version was released and it has been my experience that their drivers are expensive to buy as well in relation to other suppliers out there.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Version 3 - 08/04/10 01:56 PM

My experience has been that ALL speaker manufacturers charge quite a premium for drivers. It is one of the only ways they have of protecting intellectual property rights. It's pretty easy to reverse-engineer the crossover and enclosure; not so easy to reverse-engineer the drivers. The only way to avoid knockoffs (aka somebody stealing and profiting from the significant investment already made in research and development) is to control at least one critical part of the equation. For loudspeaker companies, that piece ends up being the drivers.

Personally, I have no problem with Axiom's policies or pricing in this area, and have absolute faith that they would deal with me fairly if I ever needed service.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Version 3 - 08/04/10 02:09 PM

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
My experience has been that ALL speaker manufacturers charge quite a premium for drivers. It is one of the only ways they have of protecting intellectual property rights. It's pretty easy to reverse-engineer the crossover and enclosure; not so easy to reverse-engineer the drivers. The only way to avoid knockoffs (aka somebody stealing and profiting from the significant investment already made in research and development) is to control at least one critical part of the equation. For loudspeaker companies, that piece ends up being the drivers.

Personally, I have no problem with Axiom's policies or pricing in this area, and have absolute faith that they would deal with me fairly if I ever needed service.


A compromise to this and to be able to still deliver reasonable priced modifications (product support) to past versions is to only sell these upgrading parts ( crossovers, drivers, tweeters etc) to existing customers only that can be verified within their system. All customer and product information is in the company system - what you ordered, how much, name, address etc. Even at a more reasonable rate you can have policy to ship the old parts back to the company when the new ones arrive. If the prices were lower, that type of policy seems very reasonable to me. This is one way you can still offer excellent product support at good prices, without alienating your existing customers as well as protecting intellectual property at the same time.
Posted by: Captain4105

Re: Version 3 - 08/04/10 04:02 PM

I asked Axiom a couple of weeks ago and JC indicated the FO's are indeed V3's.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Version 3 - 08/04/10 10:09 PM

Scamp, as Ken said I would call Axiom to be sure. However, if I would take a guess, factory outlet speakers would most likely also be V3. Keep in mind, Axiom has been shipping new speakers as V3 for many many months and factory outlet are new speakers.
Posted by: PTPlayers

Re: Version 3 - 08/04/10 10:52 PM

Originally Posted By: sirquack
Scamp, as Ken said I would call Axiom to be sure. However, if I would take a guess, factory outlet speakers would most likely also be V3. Keep in mind, Axiom has been shipping new speakers as V3 for many many months and factory outlet are new speakers.


My FO M80 are V3's and the only thing i found wrong which was mentioned in the sheet that came with each speaker was that the magnets were reversed at the top which isn't a big deal.
Posted by: MP3DFX

Re: Version 3 - 08/05/10 04:01 AM

I ordered FO speakers June 24th and they arrived July 23rd. They were indeed V3 and came in boxes marked v2 with a silver sticker on the outside that read V3 with the serial number.

One M60 had scratches on the bottom and the other was magnets, the EP500 was magnets and both QS8's were magnets. All in excellent shape and worth the wait and $$ saved grin
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Version 3 - 08/05/10 08:04 AM

What magnets are we talking about, for the grill cover? Does it still stick?
Posted by: PTPlayers

Re: Version 3 - 08/05/10 08:05 AM

For the grilles
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Version 3 - 08/10/10 11:51 AM

does the grill still stick to the speaker with the missing magnets? Seems like missing magnets would cause the grill to be loose (if it sticks at all) and could cause ratttling noises.

I thought the whole idea of the factory outlet was that the speakers would sound and function the same as a perfect one. I guess I'm questioning whether missing magnets are a cosmetic defect...
Posted by: PTPlayers

Re: Version 3 - 08/10/10 12:59 PM

I leave my grilles on and even though the top two magnets are reversed , i do not hear and rattling.
Posted by: sovkiller

Re: Version 3 - 08/14/10 04:01 PM

Originally Posted By: jakewash
Actually Paradigm is a good comparison as the Studio series is very comparable in SQ to Axiom's and as far as I know they have never offered upgrade parts available to the public after new version was released and it has been my experience that their drivers are expensive to buy as well in relation to other suppliers out there.



Just for the records, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not recall that Axiom offer it either, while they announced the new V3...and if we had never asked them to do it, probably they will never had...
We asked them, and they considered that, and offered it let's say "legally", but practically impossible to get, that in my book it is the same as saying no, they never before hand offered it...And I personally had never asked any other manufacturer either...but I have gotten parts from others a lot cheaper...

Let's be realistic, the only reason we get Axiom, is because their price/performance ratio, and because we can not afford a better performance from any competitor at higher prices, there are indeed a few DIY projects that easily rival these performance, but you need space, time, tools, etc...Also maybe you can find other manufacturers, but with a horrible customer service, if any...AV123 is one that cross my mind now...

But being honest, we all know that what we have, is far from being the last word in speaker sound quality, if such a thing really exists, and I do not even consider them, after receiving some absurd answers from some of their guys, an authority in that field either.
They are indeed good at what they do, and their speakers sound indeed very good for the money. But they are only one of the options we have out there. But if the prices increase, or if the customer service stop being so dedicated (even with absurd answers sometimes) they will stop being an option for many of us, it is more, even with all that, for me, and in the case of the sub-woofers, they stop being an option some time ago...And at higher prices, we have tons of better options...


Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 08/14/10 04:16 PM

Quote:
They are indeed good at what they do, and their speakers sound indeed very good for the money.

Then why are your panties in such a bunch??

Nobody here has said Axiom is the be all and end all. I certainly didn't

As far as the answers you get from the Axiom 'experts', its like anywhere else. You weigh what they say against what others say and decide what you believe. Nobody has a corner on the 'truth' or knowledge market.

We don't always get what we want, either in answers or in product expectations. That is normal. Don't make such a big deal out of it.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Version 3 - 08/14/10 10:04 PM

Sovkiller, I think you hit all the major points.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Version 3 - 08/14/10 10:28 PM

again and again and again....
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 08/14/10 10:39 PM

Tom. The dead horse is well past hamburger. More like puree.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Version 3 - 08/14/10 11:06 PM

Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
Sovkiller, I think you hit all the major points.
He missed a spot right over there.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Version 3 - 08/14/10 11:21 PM

If you can get parts for a lot cheaper from other speaker manufacturers out there, doesn't it make you wonder why you paid so much for those speakers in the first place?
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 08/15/10 01:20 AM

I just wish people would learn how to properly use . . . . wink
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 08/15/10 01:46 AM

Rabbit droppings?
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Version 3 - 08/15/10 10:09 AM

Rabbit droppings make good fuel for pellet stoves, in a pinch. . . . wink
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 08/15/10 10:55 AM

Its a good thing Shakespear didn't get hold of ...
.
.
.
Posted by: DaMagicman

Re: Version 3 - 08/17/10 01:17 AM

I'm still tick that my speakers didn't come with spikes and that some of you guys who have spikes are not showing it...hmp
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Version 3 - 08/17/10 11:30 AM

Here's how I feel about how long and drawn out this thread has become.


Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 08/17/10 11:36 AM

Likewise. mad tired cry
Posted by: snazzed

Re: Version 3 - 08/17/10 12:26 PM

Yeah... round about pg20 I was thinking, "Man! This thread is STILL going!?"

And here we are at pg 44 shocked

snazzed
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 08/17/10 12:55 PM

Blame Axiom since they started it. wink
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Version 3 - 08/17/10 02:10 PM

Originally Posted By: pmbuko
Here's how I feel about how long and drawn out this thread has become.



Ha! I thought the same thing when I first logged onto the forum today and saw yet another 3 more posts added to the Version 3 thread.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Version 3 - 08/17/10 02:30 PM

Uhhh, what were we talking about?
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Version 3 - 08/17/10 02:47 PM

How do they get the caramel inside the Caramilk bar?
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Version 3 - 08/17/10 02:55 PM

Elves
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 08/17/10 02:58 PM

Originally Posted By: jakewash
Elves


The last I read the Oompa-Loompas underbid them and got the contract.

What I want to know is how Axiom made the wood of the version 3 cabinets magnetic? shocked
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Version 3 - 08/17/10 03:00 PM

It is interlaced with iron particles.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 08/17/10 03:22 PM

You know the cool thing is that just when this thread dies down Audioholics is going to publish their V3 review and then . . . .
Posted by: RickF

Re: Version 3 - 08/17/10 04:17 PM

It's time for V4.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Version 3 - 08/17/10 04:22 PM

I coulda had a V8!
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 08/17/10 04:25 PM

Don't listen to the Gerbils. Its really poison.
Posted by: Ian

Re: Version 3 - 08/18/10 08:06 AM


Sovkiller,

Normally I do not post about peopleís opinions but your post is making some very inaccurate statements about the people at Axiom and our products so I think it needs to be clarified.

In regards to the question you posed and the answers you received; to call these answers ďabsurdĒ is frankly just not accurate. It is true that the original answer you received did not answer your exact question. But this is because your question was slightly misunderstood; and not because the answer was technically inaccurate. After this misunderstanding came to light Andrew replied to you with a highly technically accurate answer. The problem was it was not what you wanted to hear so you then complained the answer was ďinaccurateĒ. I then responded to you with exactly what Andrew had answered plus added one more solution. Your response to me was to rant on that our products were inferior because cheaper subwoofer products on the market could be found with more features. I was at a bit of a loss as to how to respond to this as our goal is sound quality ahead of features.

It seems as though you now have a bee in your bonnet towards my company in general because we did not give you the technically inaccurate answer you were looking for. I would suggest there is some ďabsurdityĒ going on here but it is not related to the technical correctness of the answers you received from our engineering staff.

I find it very unfortunate to have to make such a negative post as I much prefer it when our forum is a fun place to hang out; so I will endeavour not to do this too often.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Version 3 - 08/18/10 09:41 AM

Well said Ian, I applaud you and your company, no BS. You know this will go in his one ear, and right out the other. smile
Posted by: medic8r

Re: Version 3 - 08/18/10 01:44 PM

Now, now, there's no need to pile on, Randy.

Originally Posted By: Ian
The problem was it was not what you wanted to hear ...

Wow, I don't often hear that phrase outside of my office. But I do often split infinitives, apparently.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 08/18/10 03:42 PM

Originally Posted By: medic8r
Originally Posted By: Ian
The problem was it was not what you wanted to hear ...

Wow, I don't often hear that phrase outside of my office. But I do often split infinitives, apparently.

Yet it is probably the most common afliction in North America.

Now, can we just close this dammned thread and move on??
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Version 3 - 08/18/10 04:39 PM

There is always AV123, they build products to what you want.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Version 3 - 08/18/10 04:48 PM

No they don't.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Version 3 - 08/18/10 05:58 PM

Shut your mouths!. Stop talking about this!. You are bothering old FredK! Carrying on about all this nonsense.

We don't need many posts here. Pick from one of these because that's all you need!

1. Should I get M60 or M80. Answer: Get the M80.
2. Should I get the M3 or M22. Answer: Get the M60. Someone will make the appropriate response to that suggestion.
3. Should I get an outboard amplifier? Answer: all well designed solid state amps sound the same. Just use your receiver.
4. I think receiver x sounds better than receiver y. Answer: All well designed receivers should sound the same. Therefore, there is no difference and you only think you hear a difference
5. Should I get x brand cables or interconnects. Answer: use shoe laces. All cables sound the same.
6. I heard a tube amp that sounded beautiful. Should I get a tube amp? Answer: Tube amps are distortion generators. You only thihnk you liked the sound of a tube amp. Get a nice transistor amp and they all sound the same.
7. I thought I bought a V3 but they sent me a V2. Answer: There is no difference.
8. Should I upgrade to a V3? Answer: Oh yes. V3s enjoy superior sound quality.

That should do it.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Version 3 - 08/18/10 06:06 PM

You forgot "what are you listening to tonight" ha ha I started that well accepted thread. wink
Posted by: LT61

Re: Version 3 - 08/18/10 10:14 PM

Now, THAT'S funny!

It's not too much of an exaggeration,either.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Version 3 - 08/18/10 10:35 PM

Sorry Fred. Totally uncalled for.
Posted by: DaMagicman

Re: Version 3 - 08/18/10 10:38 PM

Still funny though..lol
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Version 3 - 08/18/10 11:03 PM

The only people that say there's no difference in SQ from receivers are those that have YET to hear a difference. Never went cheap enough.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 12:09 AM

Originally Posted By: Ian
It seems as though you now have a bee in your bonnet towards my company...


Must... resist... a TMBG reference!

Ian, I think the problem with a lot of people who post here is that they are trying to tell everyone that there are better speakers out there, and that we don't know that. No offense to Axiom, but of course there are better speakers. In reality, only one speaker in the world is "best" (however that is defined) so all but 1 speaker is inferior. So when people make the comment that there are better, it's an easy thing to say.

Most people here chose Axiom because they felt it was a sweet spot. Fantastic performance at a great price with stellar customer service. I don't understand why some people continually post negative comments here. Do they think we don't know there are "better" speakers? I've auditioned many speakers in my short 41 year life. Have I heard better? Of course! Have I hear worse? Of course! Have I heard speakers that perform like Axiom for their price? VERY few.

I am constantly amazed by my speakers. Being away from home a lot, it's like they are always new to me when I come home and am able to sit down with a beer and enjoy and hour of music. They are brand new again and wonderful. This is my reaction. When friends and neighbors come by, they are always amazed by the sound.

I've never really got into the details of my experience with Axiom, but I think it may be time. I originally bought 2 EP500s. When the EP800s came out, I was able to trade them in, get 90% of my purchase price back, and get the EP800s. Since I did not buy them during the pre-release, I was not eligible for the pre-release price. When I contacted Axiom about it, they gave me Axiom dollar credits for the difference (per Ian's direction!). How many speaker companies do that?

When I wanted a custom center to compliment the M80s, I contacted Ian directly... And got a response! We were in contact for months as the development of the VP180 progressed. It was a fun experience, and one I will never forget. When the speaker was ready, my previously obtained Axiom dollars covered it. I didn't pay a dime. It was custom made, with my name on it, and signed by Ian. It's priceless to me. How many speaker companies do that?

I could go on and on... I stick with Axiom because Axiom is a company I am proud to display in my home, and ENJOY in my home. I love their products, I love their customer service, and I enjoy the banter of the the folks on this board too. Ian should be very proud of his company and products and quite frankly owes people like SOV no public response. It shows the type of person he is (and his dedication to his craft) to take the time to respond.

I've babbled on enough. Suffice it to say that I'm a very proud Axiom customer. I will really never understand why people come here to tell us there are better speakers. WE KNOW THAT... WE ARE NOT STUPID! WE BUY WHAT WE FEEL IS THE SWEETEST PERFORMANCE TO PRICE RATIO AVAILABLE. It's not that we cannot afford more expensive speakers (we have doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc.) on this board. We (and I use "we", maybe I should say "I") just think we are spending our money a bit more wisely.

End of rant.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 12:31 AM

I approve this rant. smile

In all fairness to Axiom, these better speakers you've heardÖ were you able to compare them against your Axioms in the same room? How about under blind conditions? Because to truly call one speaker better than another -- to your ears -- you have to do that.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 12:50 AM

Nicely written Steve. I was wrong. There was a good reason to keep this thread open just a little longer.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 07:11 AM

Very true, and most people don't have the setup/configuration to even do a correct blind A/B comparison in their home.
Posted by: FordPrefect

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 07:23 AM

I don't believe that there is such a thing as "the best speaker" anymore than I believe there is such a thing as a "best car". It varies by individual.

Now please excuse me as I have to get ready for the arrival of a dumpster smile
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 10:37 AM

I don't believe there's "the best anything" either. Goes hand-in-hand with being an atheist.
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 10:47 AM

Originally Posted By: wheelz999
Goes hand-in-hand with being an atheist.

That would explain the chair! The unbeliever was smitten! (kidding!) smile
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 11:14 AM

He's been blessed with a strong will and attitude, as well as an excellent support group though.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 12:29 PM

Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
Shut your mouths!. Stop talking about this!. You are bothering old FredK! Carrying on about all this nonsense.

We don't need many posts here. Pick from one of these because that's all you need!

1. Should I get M60 or M80. Answer: Get the M80.
2. Should I get the M3 or M22. Answer: Get the M60. Someone will make the appropriate response to that suggestion.
3. Should I get an outboard amplifier? Answer: all well designed solid state amps sound the same. Just use your receiver.
4. I think receiver x sounds better than receiver y. Answer: All well designed receivers should sound the same. Therefore, there is no difference and you only think you hear a difference
5. Should I get x brand cables or interconnects. Answer: use shoe laces. All cables sound the same.
6. I heard a tube amp that sounded beautiful. Should I get a tube amp? Answer: Tube amps are distortion generators. You only thihnk you liked the sound of a tube amp. Get a nice transistor amp and they all sound the same.
7. I thought I bought a V3 but they sent me a V2. Answer: There is no difference.
8. Should I upgrade to a V3? Answer: Oh yes. V3s enjoy superior sound quality.

That should do it.


When did we get a FAQ started around here? Sticky!
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 12:50 PM

We could all use a sticky FAQ now and then.
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 12:54 PM

I frequently ask myself hard questions.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 01:23 PM

Remember, the answer is always 47.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 01:30 PM

Originally Posted By: grunt
Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
Shut your mouths!. Stop talking about this!. You are bothering old FredK! Carrying on about all this nonsense.

We don't need many posts here. Pick from one of these because that's all you need!

1. Should I get M60 or M80. Answer: Get the M80.
2. Should I get the M3 or M22. Answer: Get the M60. Someone will make the appropriate response to that suggestion.
3. Should I get an outboard amplifier? Answer: all well designed solid state amps sound the same. Just use your receiver.
4. I think receiver x sounds better than receiver y. Answer: All well designed receivers should sound the same. Therefore, there is no difference and you only think you hear a difference
5. Should I get x brand cables or interconnects. Answer: use shoe laces. All cables sound the same.
6. I heard a tube amp that sounded beautiful. Should I get a tube amp? Answer: Tube amps are distortion generators. You only thihnk you liked the sound of a tube amp. Get a nice transistor amp and they all sound the same.
7. I thought I bought a V3 but they sent me a V2. Answer: There is no difference.
8. Should I upgrade to a V3? Answer: Oh yes. V3s enjoy superior sound quality.

That should do it.


When did we get a FAQ started around here? Sticky!


Just add an additional note that Axiom speakers do not need any "break in" or "burn in" period and that would about cover it. smile
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 01:59 PM

Also, Regina Spektor is CV's soulmate.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 02:36 PM

I guess we can all go home now.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 02:57 PM

Originally Posted By: EFalardeau
Originally Posted By: wheelz999
Goes hand-in-hand with being an atheist.

That would explain the chair! The unbeliever was smitten! (kidding!) smile


HAHA! I became an atheist a couple years after my accident when I started to care about logic, reasoning et al (learning in general). Prior, all I cared about was sports.

Originally Posted By: Adrian
He's been blessed with acquired a strong will and attitude, as well as an excellent support group though.
smile
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 03:00 PM

Originally Posted By: CV
I frequently ask myself hard questions.
laugh

I hardly ask myself frequent questions.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 03:03 PM

Originally Posted By: CV
Also, Regina Spektor is CV's soulmate.


If only she knew that.


Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 03:08 PM

smile
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 04:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Adrian
Remember, the answer is always 47.
42 wink
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 08/19/10 10:00 PM

Originally Posted By: pmbuko
Originally Posted By: CV
Also, Regina Spektor is CV's soulmate.


If only she knew that.



Iím not easily phased but that does sort of creep me out. eek
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 08/20/10 12:24 AM

Originally Posted By: pmbuko
If only she knew that.


Ha ha, that picture might have to end up other places.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Version 3 - 08/23/10 03:36 PM

Originally Posted By: wheelz999
I don't believe there's "the best anything" either. Goes hand-in-hand with being an atheist.


I am the best..........something!!!

I'm not sure what exactly, but I'm positive I'm the best something or other. smile
Posted by: Murph

Re: Version 3 - 08/23/10 03:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Adrian
Remember, the answer is always 47.


Wrong! 42!

Oops. Never mind, I ssee you were already corrected.
[Strikes "the best forum reader." off his list of things he may be best at.]
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Version 3 - 08/23/10 05:16 PM

If nothing else Murph you have the best self portrait ala Simpsons, especially since it is authentic.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Version 3 - 08/23/10 10:19 PM

Unless of course the whole thing was a practical joke...
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Version 3 Construction Quality - 08/24/10 10:44 PM

Hello friends

So, I've had these M3V2.x on my countertop for weeks now and I finally took a close look at them.

I was very surprised to see that the screws securing the tweeter and the 6.5" drivers are not countersunk. Each of those screws is standing up like a teenage boy in the girl's shower.

[img:center][/img]

and

[img:center][/img]

OK, focus is off but check out those screws!

Now, here are some pictures of a Michaura M66. Look familiar? Check out the nicely countersunk screws.

[img:center][/img]

[img:center][/img]

Are things changing? Is there a lack of attention to detail happening here?
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 Construction Quality - 08/24/10 10:59 PM


Hasnít changed in the three years since I got my first axiom order. Although Iíve read that the area surrounding the tweeters can alter the FR Iím pretty sure that the difference in screws isnít going to be detectable to my ears. Even though I leave my grills on I wouldnít mind the look if I didnít so I guess what Iím saying is that itís a non-issue for me. wink
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Version 3 Construction Quality - 08/24/10 11:05 PM

OK then. Nevermind.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Version 3 Construction Quality - 08/24/10 11:06 PM

I guess I could take a damp cue tip to the Michaura tweeter cove.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Version 3 Construction Quality - 08/25/10 12:48 AM

Q-Tip. Not Cue-tip. I suppose it's a matter of whether or not you sweat the details.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 Construction Quality - 08/25/10 12:52 AM

For you Iím sure someone would have been kind enough to do so. wink
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Version 3 Construction Quality - 08/25/10 01:06 AM

Grunt, you are a highly evolved transcendant being with a good sense of humor. Always a pleasure to post with you.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 Construction Quality - 08/25/10 01:10 AM

Cool, I transcended! I knew all that meditation would pay off some day. Really wasnít looking forward to coming back as cockroach next time around. cool
Posted by: RickF

Re: Version 3 Construction Quality - 08/25/10 05:06 AM

2x6 it's difficult to tell from the photos but those don't look like countersunk screws used on the Michaura either, they look like a standard rounded machine screw head to me. I personally like the look of the cap screws used on the Axiom speaker better, if I remember correctly the cap screws used on all of my Axiom speakers are black ... I think.




Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Version 3 Construction Quality - 08/25/10 08:27 AM

Its tough to accurately say from those pictures.

This picture is what you should use as reference to your M3's and compare the two.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/gallery_display2.html?image=tweeter.jpg&title=M3%20-%20Tweeter

Posted by: Murph

Re: Version 3 - 08/25/10 08:29 AM

Originally Posted By: terzaghi
Unless of course the whole thing was a practical joke...


I wish I knew for sure. But it is still one of my prized possessions, either way.
Posted by: dllewel

Re: Version 3 - 08/25/10 02:18 PM

Originally Posted By: RickF
...if I remember correctly the cap screws used on all of my Axiom speakers are black ... I think.


Definitely black on my Axioms, I just checked. Your memory is un-failing Rick. smile

Look very closely at my avatar pic for proof!
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 08/26/10 04:20 AM

Originally Posted By: pmbuko


By the way, Peter, my online friend, Cari, said that that picture is the best thing ever.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Version 3 - 08/26/10 09:54 AM

I'll be sure to photoshop you into the Axiom party, too. smile
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Version 3 - 08/26/10 09:21 PM

Photo shop him into it doing a keg stand.
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 08/27/10 01:57 AM

Whatever I'm doing, make sure I'm double-blinded.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Version 3 - 08/27/10 05:46 AM

Itís still really creepy. I think itís the eye level that does it.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Version 3 - 08/27/10 09:48 AM

I should animate it to make him get closer really slowly.
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 08/27/10 12:34 PM

Sure, if you want to make Cari sauce herself with delight.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Version 3 - 08/27/10 02:18 PM

Originally Posted By: CV
Sure, if you want to make Cari sauce herself with delight.


Posted by: Murph

Re: Version 3 - 08/27/10 02:23 PM

Nothing like getting delightfully sauced.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Version 3 - 08/27/10 02:27 PM

She can dip in my sauce anytime.

Edit: Oh, I almost forgot. She can pet my cat anyday.
Posted by: CV

Re: Version 3 - 08/27/10 02:27 PM

Ha ha, very nice, Peter.
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Version 3 - 08/28/10 02:48 PM

Originally Posted By: CatBrat
She can pet my cat anyday.


Reminds me of a Steve Martin routine. I'll restrain from posting that here...

Scott
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Version 3 - 08/28/10 04:52 PM

Hey guys, sorry for getting back on topic eek , but I was wondering if I can get the VP 180 with the same dust caps as my M80 V2's? The aluminum dust caps are purely cosmetic and don't impact the sound quality, correct?

Thanks
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Version 3 - 08/28/10 04:58 PM

That's correct.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Version 3 - 08/28/10 05:05 PM

Thanks, Ken.

Carry on.........
Posted by: Murph

Re: Version 3 - 08/30/10 03:06 PM

Carry On My Wayward Suhohhhon
There'll be peace when you are done

Sorry, I'm in an silly mood today. Not enough sleep on the weekend maybe.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Version 3 - 08/30/10 03:08 PM

Dude, quit kicking up the dust around here. It's windy.
Posted by: kordeo

Re: Version 3 - 09/09/10 08:56 AM

Pardon me if you've seen this question in another thread but for people who've heard the M80's v3 & v2's i'd be interested in hearing your opinions.

i've got the opportunity to buy a pair of v2 M-80's purchased in Sept 2007 for $750. Immaculate condition.

Is the $600 extra dollars I'd have to spend on new v3's from factory outlet justifiable?
Posted by: casey01

Re: Version 3 - 09/09/10 09:45 AM

Originally Posted By: kordeo
Pardon me if you've seen this question in another thread but for people who've heard the M80's v3 & v2's i'd be interested in hearing your opinions.

i've got the opportunity to buy a pair of v2 M-80's purchased in Sept 2007 for $750. Immaculate condition.

Is the $600 extra dollars I'd have to spend on new v3's from factory outlet justifiable?


I mentioned this example recently on another thread but back not too long ago I traded in a pair of V2 M60s for a pair of V3 M80s and I was quite surprised how similar they sounded!

Re: the V2 M80s, for that price and the condition they are in, my answer to your question about wondering whether or not to spend the additional $600 for V3s is an unequivocal NO!
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Version 3 - 09/09/10 08:38 PM

also keep in mind used speakers don't have a 5 year warranty.
Posted by: Worfzara

Re: Version 3 - 09/09/10 10:22 PM

I suppose there is some comfort with buying new adn getting a 5 year warranty. However, even if a driver failed, it wouldn't cost anywhere near the difference ($600) to replace.

I would just make sure that all the drivers are in good working order before purchasing and the cabnets are in good shape.

paul