Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype

Posted by: Amie

Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 09:58 AM

Well, the first prototype is designed, cut and built, and heading into the testing room! What do you think?


Side view


Front view
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 10:02 AM

Saaaaaaaaaweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 10:03 AM

Woo Hoo!

Amie, could we get the measurements and driver complement (even though this may not be the final version)?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 10:09 AM

I'm sorry to say I'm not really sold on the appearance. Still, what can you do with an WT/MW with the same size drivers--which should obviously be the goal to match the M60s.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 10:11 AM

Question: What do you think?

Answer: One word, AWESOME! May it's off-axis performance and speech intelligibility be with you! Love it!

p.s. Is this prototype sealed or ported?
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 10:26 AM

I wonder if there would eventually be an in/on wall version, or in-cabinet version, if it would not be too deep. The in-cabinet VP180 was too deep for my wall. There was heating duct work in the way. But, I might be interested in that. I suppose, that it might be possible that I could build an outer frame on the wall, using 2x2 or 2x4's though so it wouldn't go so deep. Angle it up just a little too, while I'm at it.

I'm sold. I want one.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 10:30 AM

Let me add;

Thanks for sharing, Amie! It's great that you're soliciting user-feedback in the design process!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 11:00 AM

I should say that too, as the jerk who critiqued on reply number 3. It's very cool that you're showing off prototypes to the community.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 11:10 AM

Great feedback so far - thank you! Critiques are definitely welcomed or we wouldn't have asked smile I'm waiting for the 'measurement' answer . . .
Posted by: Ian

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 11:49 AM


Mark,

It is 292mm x 600 mm x 335 mm (11.5” x 23.625” x 13.2”) HWD. The drivers are identical to the M60. It is only the tweeter face plate that has changed. We wanted to keep the height to a minimum but also keep the tweeter above the 5.25”.
Posted by: Nick B

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 12:02 PM

This looks great! The design looks like it will be better for off axis viewing than most center channels, yet it is not too tall and deep to cause placement issues with regards to the display. Hopefully there is great dialog intelligibility (even off axis) and yet it will have a flat frequency response and tonal characteristic closely matching the m60's and m80's.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 12:08 PM

Nice! and thanks Ian/Amie for asking our opinions.

Ian, have you considered using a notched faceplate on the tweeter to narrow the cabinet(allowing more placement options for some people)?
Posted by: Argon

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 12:08 PM

I appreciate the comment that one objective was to minimize height. The height as listed here would defininately trip the WAF alarm.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 12:09 PM

Thank you, Amie and Ian, for sharing this interesting news, and especially for soliciting feedback.

I'm delighted to hear that it has the same driver compliment as the M60.

The proportions of the speaker make me wonder about having an angle cut on the front edge of the vertical sides, but I know that is not consistent with the look or assembly of the rest of the line.

Ian, good luck with the testing. I hope it's a winner.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 12:31 PM

So a bit smaller than the volume of an M60, or is that made up for by the non-tapering bottom?
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 02:22 PM

I have 14 inches of clearance from the front of my wall (under the tv) to the duct work inside the wall. With depth being 13.2 inches, it'd almost be an exact fit.
Posted by: CV

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 02:45 PM

Very nice. I'll be interested to hear comparisons to the VP180.
Posted by: RickF

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 05:21 PM

Nice!

I'd be interested to find out how well it will do in a dual center VP180-VP160 combination.

If y'all get a chance to try that can you report back?
Posted by: casey01

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 08:20 PM

I like it. Personally, I prefer the higher and deeper profile of this prototype as opposed to the usual longer, narrow center channels which tend to have limitations especially with wide angle dispersion and the usual overabundance of sound in the 300-500 hz range which makes voices sound unnatural. This one looks more like a large bookshelf speaker on its side.

One obvious item not mentioned is the price. Since it falls between the VP180 and 150, I gather we are to assume the price will fall somewhere in that range as well?
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 09:25 PM

I think I have died and gone to heaven, this looks like it could be the center channel I have been dreaming of. I'll take 2 right now.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 09:30 PM

It's a bit tallish, but using the existing unmodified drivers(the tweeter apparently is the one with the QS4 face plate)limits the extent to which the height could be minimized. It would be nice if it could be lowered an inch or so, but this would require modifying the tweeter and 5.25" face plates to fit more closely together.

Enclosure size apart, however, this promises to be an excellent sounding center when development is complete. I'd guess that a likely price would be around $540.

Ian, if you're of a mind to do a little more experimentation in this area, one of the thoughts that I've mentioned here in the past was a smaller W T/M W using two 5.25" woofers, the QS4 form of tweeter faceplate and the 4" mid-range from the QS4.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 09:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
Well, the first prototype is designed, cut and built, and heading into the testing room! What do you think?


Side view


Front view


Great idea. Looks a bit like my Frankencenterspeaker:

1 Merak (Axiom made) trapezoidal anti standing wave cabinet
2 Axiom 6.5" drivers
1 tweeter, capacitor and resistor array from a Reference 3a de Capo mm speaker
1 modified Radio Shack super tweeter

[img:center][/img]

and another with the Merak horn loaded tweeter

[img:center][/img]
Posted by: fredk

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 09:55 PM

That there is one burly speaker! Measuring, its about 1.5" taller than my M2s. I think this is a love 'em or hate'em format.

I don't know which would be harder to fit into a setup the VP180, which is mondo wide, or this guy.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 10:12 PM

I wouldn't mind a little shorter and a little longer, but please don't make it deeper.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 10:20 PM

Brian, Ian is a excellent designer(certainly superior to the Russian designer Ivan)but he can't make it both shorter and longer.

Edit: Oh, you mean...
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 10:25 PM

Ohh. How about shorter, and wider?
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 10:28 PM

You got it; and I agree.
Posted by: bdpf

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 11:32 PM

Originally Posted By: fredk
I don't know which would be harder to fit into a setup the VP180, which is mondo wide, or this guy.

Although I understand that this speaker target people who seek better off-axis response, I have to agree with this statement. People that couldn't fit a VP180 will have a hard time with this one. Physics are physics so I guess the volume is needed for a good full range center. I'm sure something can be done on the tweeter face plate in order to make the speaker shorter and a bit wider.
Posted by: 72mustang

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 11:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
Great feedback so far - thank you! Critiques are definitely welcomed or we wouldn't have asked smile I'm waiting for the 'measurement' answer . . .


If it was me... I would spread the width out another 5 or 6 inches and add another midrange keeping the tweeder dead center. This would shorten the heigth by about 2 inches and keep the asthetic look of a tradional center ( long and narrow ). Only my opinion though as I dont really care for the box look. But I did stay at a holiday inn express last night. LOL
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/26/11 11:45 PM

I thought it would be a size between the 150 and 180, I don't like the boxy look but that is just me.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 12:48 AM

Looks great. Like everyone else, wondering if it's possible to reduce the height a bit without pushing the drivers too close to the tapered edges and making it unmanufacturable.

I tried doodling up something where the tapered edges were at left and right rather than top and bottom but then you end up with long vinyl seams.

Anyways, thanks very much for giving us an early look.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 08:03 AM

What about putting the tweeter and mid range beside each other?

W-M-T-W

I also like the idea earlier of W-M-T-M-W, if the extra mid didn't color the sound. I know it'd add to the cost a bit. Maybe $600 instead of $540. But I think people would like it better.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 08:05 AM

heh... and do the HORRIBLENESS of a straight line center again? But that would be WRONG!
Posted by: bdpf

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 08:44 AM

I don't think my VP180 is HORRIBLE, but I agree, no point of doing that.
Posted by: FordPrefect

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 08:55 AM

I think the proportions would look a little better, to my eye at least, IF it was a little wider, perhaps providing room for ports at either end.

Then again a lot of centers are not ported, reason being?

Regardless of my nitpicking this will be another reason to drive north.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 09:17 AM

Originally Posted By: FordPrefect
Then again a lot of centers are not ported, reason being?

Hi Wayne:
I'm guessing it has to do with how often they are "fitted" into a TV stand.
Posted by: Chevy

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 09:35 AM

Sorry i really don't like the apparence,
They looks like teenager project made in a basement in the 80's.

how about having a longer & slimmer shape to be more friendly with flat screen set-up ?

I think there is a propostion H&W problem, less height & wider could help ?

But I'm volunter to test a Beta unit a home (for free ). wink


Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 09:40 AM

How many ports does this speaker have and where are they located?

Anywho, I have no issues about it's height whatsoever. If you want or your room needs a shorter center they already provide so many other options like the VP150, VP180 or VP100. Speaker design is all about trade-offs and you can't have everything. This sort of horizontal driver complement has the ability to offer so many benefits. Hopefully all this will be realized in the testing phase. My advice if it sounds the best don't worry about the dimensions, you already have 3 centers which would fit other placement needs. I love the idea you guys are playing with this.



Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 09:45 AM

Like BlueJays said, it's all about compromise. If you want longer and slimmer, there's the 150 or the on-walls. This one's for the freaks who want an WT/MW design. wink
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 09:50 AM

Folks, I wouldn't make final judgments on the appearance based on these photos. Those are not the best photos (no offense meant to the photographer). It is difficult for me to tell if the top front edge is a straight bevel or a notch. I assume it is a bevel but it looks like a notch due to reflections.

I, for one, am thrilled to see Axiom making a W T/M W center channel. Another option for the customer. If it is not for you, you still have several other Axiom options that should satisfy.

My vote is a "BRAVO"
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 10:09 AM

Amie or Ian (Ivan):
Is this meant to be a replacement model, or is it "in addition" to the current ones offered?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 10:10 AM

Originally Posted By: Ajax
Those are not the best photos

Everyone's a critic nowadays! wink
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 10:14 AM

Originally Posted By: Chevy
Sorry i really don't like the apparence,
They looks like teenager project made in a basement in the 80's.

how about having a longer & slimmer shape to be more friendly with flat screen set-up ?

I think there is a propostion H&W problem, less height & wider could help ?

But I'm volunter to test a Beta unit a home (for free ). wink



The VP100, VP150 and VP180 all have that slimmer profile of various sizes you are talking about. One of the key aspects of this design is having the tweeter above the bandwith limited midrange driver. This is critical for its dispersion. One of the trade-offs will be of course a taller cabinet compared to the others.
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 11:31 AM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Originally Posted By: Ajax
Those are not the best photos

Everyone's a critic nowadays! wink

Well, ya see, I have this friend who is a professional photographer. He's really good at it so I'm spoiled. I tend to measure all photos against his work. Thus, you can blame him for my critical opinion. grin
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 11:58 AM

I would approximate the cabinet could be made an inch, or so, narrower with a notched tweeter faceplate. Having the centre-to-centre distance as small as poss between the mid and tweet should also improve the SQ from what I've read(may not be audible, but at least it reduces the height if nothing else). Reducing the height, if possible, would make the speaker desirable to more buyers. I don't agree with statements about just getting one of the other centres as I think they are different animals(excluding the 180) and I don't really think a buyer would "cross shop" between the smaller centres and either the 160 or 180 once they have done their research.
Posted by: Sarang

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 02:35 PM

Another way to look at the height is to question .... whether this height is a necessity to achieve the best SQ ........ or ..... is it just a result of the limitation of using the existing drivers ........
If the answer is "limitations", then I believe faceplate re-design would open up a lot more possibilities for Axiom line of speakers ......

For me, I guess H:W ratio of 1:3 would be more appealing.
Posted by: powerwindow

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 03:18 PM

Since we're all chiming in on 'wish lists,' how about a redesign of the vp 100 or 150 to have a similar W-M^T-W compliment, using the 5.25" W and 4" M, along with the 1" T to go with my M22's? It seems like I can use a little more than my vp 100, but I'm not sold on the 150's configuration with the tweeters on the outside.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 03:21 PM

I think you'd be sacrificing midrange and timbre vs. the other Axiom speakers based on a gut feeling by doing that.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 03:52 PM

I know, I know. How about a generic box with a bunch of holes in it where we could just put the speakers where ever we wanted them?
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 04:01 PM

Originally Posted By: powerwindow
Since we're all chiming in on 'wish lists,' how about a redesign of the vp 100 or 150 to have a similar W-M^T-W compliment, using the 5.25" W and 4" M, along with the 1" T to go with my M22's? It seems like I can use a little more than my vp 100, but I'm not sold on the 150's configuration with the tweeters on the outside.


Go with the VP160 and it's dedicated 5.25" midrange driver cool . It would be a better match than using the 4" as the midrange with the M22. The crucial midrange of each speaker would share the same driver then. One difference being with the VP160, the 5.25" would be more bandwith limited than on the M22 with anything below the crossover point being handled by the larger 6" woofers flanked on each side.
Posted by: powerwindow

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 07:15 PM

I think I agree. The configuration I suggest would be a 3-way that would x-over to the 4" for midrange. I suppose this could be limiting. Although I don't think there would be any timbre difficulties since many people use QS 4's with M22's and they have the 4" driver. I am interested to see how this new center evoloves.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 07:37 PM

I know Axiom has mentioned before they like the midrange capabilities of the 5.25". More so than the 6.5 but I don't think they ever mentioned the 4". One driver complement a fellow member JohnK suggested was a dual 4" in a WM(^T^)MW.
Posted by: powerwindow

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 07:47 PM

Ahh, now you're really shaking things up. Would the woofers be the 5.25" drivers? If so, it would be like a baby 180. smile This could be interesting as it would lengthen the box. Looking at the 180 prototype, I do think it appears too 'boxy.'
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 07:58 PM

Now that's an important question and one I could not answer.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 09:14 PM

As a former owner of QS4s as well as a current owner of M50s, M80s, etc, etc, etc, etc, I prefer the midrange of the 5.25>3>6.5>4. Bearing in mind, of course, that my 5.25" mids are v2s, the 3s are v3s, the 6.5s are v1s, and the 4s were v2s.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 10:33 PM

Brian, keep in mind that the main purpose of the new design is to have the tweeter and mid-range aligned vertically, and putting the tweeter and mid-range beside each other would defeat this purpose. This would be little different acoustically from taking the M60 and setting it on its side.

Several Axiom competitors offer such a W T/M W arrangement, such as Aperion , Paradigm and PSB .
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/27/11 10:44 PM

Yes, a couple years ago Blue Jay(aka Dr. horse)and I discussed center speaker designs and one of the suggestions I mentioned was an arrangement for a W T/MM W, which would use the tweeter and two 4" mid-ranges grouped as closely as possible in a triangular configuration. This was pure speculation, and the benefits(if any)of such an arrangement are unclear, beyond doubling up the mid-range drivers.

I might note that the competitors' W T/M W speakers that I linked above do make use of 4-4 1/2" mid-ranges which helps keep enclosure height down.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 02:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Amie
Well, the first prototype is designed, cut and built, and heading into the testing room! What do you think?


Side view


Front view


OK, it's clunky looking. Focal JM Lab Electras look a bit better.


and of course the B&W Nautilus center speaker raises the tweeter above the driver line



and of course the idea of my Frankenspeaker DIY project using Axiom 6.5" drivers is the tweeter is above the speaker line. Axiom could place the 5.25" driver where the horn tweeter is and raise its tweeter to where the supertweeter sits.

[img:center]Photobucket[/img]

I think it would make the unit look much better and get rid of the bulk.
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 07:14 AM

I've never cared for the stand-alone tweeter on top of the cabinet. It looks, to me, like they forgot it and said "oh well, lets just nail it down up here." wink But, that's just my personal perspective. YMMV.
Posted by: Argon

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 08:22 AM

Originally Posted By: Ajax
I've never cared for the stand-alone tweeter on top of the cabinet. It looks, to me, like they forgot it and said "oh well, lets just nail it down up here." wink But, that's just my personal perspective. YMMV.

Looks a little phallic to me?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 09:07 AM

How about using an overlap like the in-wall VP100? You'd probably have to extend the back to keep the same cab volume, but then you could shrink the vertical, which is what I'm keying off of.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 09:17 AM

I have the same opinion of "offboard" tweeters, Jack. I just don't see it happening from this company, thankfully.

A huge part of the look and feel of Axiom speakers comes directly from their manufacturing process. I happen to think they've pushed the boundaries nicely and are making good-looking speaker cabinets despite the constraints of their CNC-routed laminated MDF fold-and-glue process. I'm sure there have been many iterations to that process over the years, each one bringing another measure of refinement to the look.
Posted by: CV

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 09:59 AM

I don't mind the look if there can be an advantage acoustically.
Posted by: mpyw

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 10:10 AM

now, only the price will stop me from buying it....but the paradigm cc690 look very gorgeous too....
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 10:14 AM

And the audio results of the new VP160 are.....?

Haven't heard anything. Must be back to the drawing board time.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 11:28 AM

Interesting PMB.

CNC? fold and glue? The VP 160 prototype definitely looks clunky and primitive. I hope the finished product looks better. The prototype presents as a bit amateurish in appearance. Aesthetics count,though perhaps in this case they are dictated by audio engineering requirements, though it sure doesn't look like it.

Friends, we all really like the folks at Axiom and their products. I think they're entitled to an honest review of the appearance of this center speaker effort. The market will be ruthless unless the sound quality and tech specs are so stand-out as to make up for its looks.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 11:47 AM

But why make it look different from the rest of the line? Slap a woodgrain finish on that, and it looks (relatively) similar to the rest of the lineup.
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 11:53 AM

Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
Interesting PMB.

CNC? fold and glue? The VP 160 prototype definitely looks clunky and primitive. I hope the finished product looks better. The prototype presents as a bit amateurish in appearance. Aesthetics count,though perhaps in this case they are dictated by audio engineering requirements, though it sure doesn't look like it.

Friends, we all really like the folks at Axiom and their products. I think they're entitled to an honest review of the appearance of this center speaker effort. The market will be ruthless unless the sound quality and tech specs are so stand-out as to make up for its looks.

2x6, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and to express that opinion. That's all, we who don't quite see it the same as you, have done.

I consider aesthetics to be important, just not as important as performance and this speaker's performance, at this point, is an unknown. I do not find the prototype to be "beautiful," but neither do I find it's appearance to be a deal breaker. On the other hand, regardless of performance, which I'm sure is stellar, I would not have the Nautilus in my house. I just don't care for it.
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 11:54 AM

Oh, good point, Ken. smile
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 12:21 PM

Peter's point is well-taken; part of what enables Axiom to produce excellent products at reasonable prices is their manufacturing process. Absent a complete redesign of the entire line, having consistency between models is both a branding as well as an efficiency issue.

People have been clamoring for a W-T/M-W center design from Axiom for years. Now that Ian is working on one, the feedback he gets is "looks clunky"?

When Amie posted the PROTOTYPE pictures my first thought was "cool!". My second thought, about a nanosecond later, was "they'll be sorry".

I tend to agree with Jack about the outboard tweeters.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 12:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
Well, the first prototype is designed, cut and built, and heading into the testing room! What do you think?


Side view


Front view


I respectfully disagree. Although the drivers and tweeter are familiar, the cabinet looks ungainly. Its proportions just don't look right to me. The top looks like an architectural coping.

Now, everyone is entitled to his own opinion. Some may find it beautiful. I'm just saying ...
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 12:44 PM

Well, yeah... it looks a bit... well... not as well proportioned as the others. I expected this, of course, with the otherwise no compromise T/M configuration. I think it's valid to offer some criticism at this point on the design.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 12:56 PM

How about a robotic center channel that looks like a mouth opening and closing with what the actor is saying?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 01:07 PM

Let's not forget that it IS a prototype.

If I were building something to enable listening tests, I wouldn't likely spend much time on aesthetics, lest the whole thing gets thrown out for a design mod.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 02:21 PM

I agree. I recognize that it is a prototype but visually, it is not appealing to me. SQ is king but if it doesn't shake up the sound too much, I would consider lengthening it purely for aesthetic reasons even though it is not required to fit the drivers. Height vs. length it isn't to short of the ever pleasing Phi ratio but the depth to the rear seems to be making it look a bit too boxy.

I'd love to be able to counter the above by saying how great it sounds, but of course, I haven't heard it yet so I don't think they will mind hearing our comments on the aesthetics. Why else show us pictures, inevitable driver configuration arguments aside. heheheh
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 02:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Murph
but the depth to the rear

Does this cabinet make my butt look big?

In all seriousness, though, I don't think Ian is crying in the corner due to anybody's criticism. We are all potential customers and if the universal reaction was "ick" then I'm sure he'd make some tweaks before going to market with it. "Ick" is not the universal reaction, though, so I have a feeling the basic form factor won't change much, especially considering the fact that the ultimate design goal is great sound.
Posted by: medic8r

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 03:02 PM

Originally Posted By: pmbuko
I don't think Ian is crying in the corner due to anybody's criticism.

+1. Excellent, noteworthy point.

Having met Ian and done a brief psychiatric assessment when he wasn't looking, I can agree that his skin meets the minimum thickness requirement for successful public discourse, including received criticism.
Posted by: Nick B

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 05:13 PM

When the lights go out all that matters is the sound quality. I think it looks fine like it is. Now if the height can be decreased slightly yet still keep the same driver configuration with the tweeter over the midrange and flanked by the woofers (hopefully the same size drivers as the m60's so that there is a seamless integration between the m60's or m80's and the vp160), then great. That may improve the WAF so that it is easier to purchase. If the width or depth has to be increased then the choice should be the width, as long as we don't go as far as the vp180. That should make placement on a TV stand, with a display easier.
Posted by: Ian

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 05:26 PM


Ajax,

It is true that the VP160 is designed for a unique purpose and particular customer bent.

The VP160 is going to end up being boxy looking compared to the other designs but that is the nature of the beast. The idea is to keep every detail as close as possible to the matching fronts, in this case the M60s. This means we want the same tweeter and 5.25” as in the M60 and we want the tweeter above the 5.25”. Our other three centre channels will remain the longer slimmer design.

This said we have managed to shave the height down to 10 7/8” which will help a bit with that boxiness.
Posted by: Sarang

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 05:27 PM

WMTMW will probably make a great vertical center chaneel (for those who have the space and wife's approval) ......
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 05:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Ken.C
Well, yeah... it looks a bit... well... not as well proportioned as the others. I expected this, of course, with the otherwise no compromise T/M configuration. I think it's valid to offer some criticism at this point on the design.


Could not agree more. Not only are our opinions valid, both pro and con, I would think they would be of some value, however minor.
Posted by: Sarang

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 05:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Sarang
chaneel


??? my wife won't approve of that !!
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 05:52 PM

Definitely a little boxy but a welcome addition to the lineup. I like the look of the vp180 better. I wonder which will perform better?
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 06:25 PM

It's not as trapezoidal as I'd expect an Axiom center channel to be. It sort of looks like my old toy chest.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 07:14 PM

I would guarantee that the VP180 will perform better. It's really the no compromises center channel. It's got the larger cabinet volume.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 07:49 PM

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
I tend to agree with Jack about the outboard tweeters.

I'm a big fan of outboard tweeters, as long as they come in matched pairs.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 07:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Ian

This said we have managed to shave the height down to 10 7/8” which will help a bit with that boxiness.



Wohooo!! Can we call it shorty now?
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 08:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Ian

Ajax,

It is true that the VP160 is designed for a unique purpose and particular customer bent.

The VP160 is going to end up being boxy looking compared to the other designs but that is the nature of the beast. The idea is to keep every detail as close as possible to the matching fronts, in this case the M60s. This means we want the same tweeter and 5.25” as in the M60 and we want the tweeter above the 5.25”. Our other three centre channels will remain the longer slimmer design.

This said we have managed to shave the height down to 10 7/8” which will help a bit with that boxiness.

Thanks Ian. Yes, I think those who find the prototype "boxy" will find the 10 7/8" height more satisfying.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/28/11 09:53 PM

Ian, looking at the pictures of the prototype, it did appear that the top and bottom of the enclosure could be a little closer to the drivers so as to allow a small height reduction.

Since even the VP150 is about 4" wider than the prototype, it would seem that adding several inches to the width would reduce the impression of "boxiness" to those who object(which doesn't include me). This would also get the internal volume closer to that of the M60 for purposes of bass tuning. Of course, the woofers should remain as close together as possible.
Posted by: Ian

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/29/11 03:29 AM


JohnK,

This is a good point. We could put a port at each end of the front baffle (they are currently on the rear baffle). The question becomes should we go for a bit boxy but compact or proportionally more sleek but larger?
Posted by: CV

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/29/11 04:05 AM

Ports on the front seems like a smart idea, though I really shouldn't weigh in since I don't think the VP160 is what I'll be gunning for. I still think I want to try a VP180, perhaps dual VP180 at some point. I can't let JC best my system, after all!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/29/11 05:56 AM

Originally Posted By: Ian

JohnK,

This is a good point. We could put a port at each end of the front baffle (they are currently on the rear baffle). The question becomes should we go for a bit boxy but compact or proportionally more sleek but larger?

Personally, I think the latter, as it would fit better within many "center channel" spaces on A/V furniture, as well as fit better within the Axiom line between the size of the VP150 and the size of the VP180.
Posted by: FordPrefect

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/29/11 11:15 AM

I also agree with Mark .....just to muddy the waters I would love it if the top could be curved a little like a mantle clock.

Prob not possible with the current manufacturing method.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/29/11 11:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Ian

JohnK,

This is a good point. We could put a port at each end of the front baffle (they are currently on the rear baffle). The question becomes should we go for a bit boxy but compact or proportionally more sleek but larger?


My vote is a bit longer (wider on the horizontal plane). The VP180 is simply too big for many of us, but it does look rather wicked. A compromise for me would be a speaker along the same proportions, but smaller than the VP180.

Call me vain, but I do care what my speakers look like. Even in the days when that "other company" was making speakers and swindling folks in the name a charity, they made a center channel called "the big foot". Everyone was just ranting and raving over this thing. I couldn't buy one because I did not like the way it looked. This prototype resembles it to some degree.
Posted by: bdpf

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/29/11 11:34 AM

Based on looks alone, I like much more the look of my VP180. The lab results will tell if it will perform better (which the theory indicates that it will off-axis).

First I think you should go with whatever sounds best.
Then, assuming that the SQ will be the same, I would also go with a shorter and longer box as long as it doesn't reach the length of the VP180 which is why some people can't accommodate it.

Many possibilities and experiments to be made...

Edit: took too long to create my post that is basically repeating what Michael is saying smile
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/29/11 11:57 AM

unfortunately, my first impression is that i do not like the way this speaker looks. it looks kind of like a box, but it's not a box... Ian, maybe if you could re-arrange the drivers to make it more symmetrical some how? My initial though was to add a second 5.25" and put the tweeter in the middle... But then it wouldn't have the exact same drivers as the m60..

Sorry to be the negative Nancy in the group, but you deserve honest feedback, so that is what i am giving you.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/29/11 12:20 PM

Yeah, what Mike and Bruno said.

I don't think it's useful to propose a five-driver model. That would only be a tweeter short of the VP180. I totally support the same driver compliment as the M60. Ports on the front. Needs to be "smaller" in the height and width than the VP180, for sure, though.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/29/11 12:49 PM

Originally Posted By: bdpf
Based on looks alone, I like much more the look of my VP180. The lab results will tell if it will perform better (which the theory indicates that it will off-axis).

First I think you should go with whatever sounds best.
Then, assuming that the SQ will be the same, I would also go with a shorter and longer box as long as it doesn't reach the length of the VP180 which is why some people can't accommodate it.

Many possibilities and experiments to be made...

Edit: took too long to create my post that is basically repeating what Michael is saying smile


As we both hear direct and reflected sound (since I don't know of anybody that has an anechoic chamber in their living room), the off-axis response is also important on what the listeners perceive that are also sitting on-axis. A nice uniform off-axis response is a win-win and a design like a WMTW can accomplish.
Posted by: KevinM

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/29/11 01:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Ian
We could put a port at each end of the front baffle (they are currently on the rear baffle). The question becomes should we go for a bit boxy but compact or proportionally more sleek but larger?


I think that widening this model and adding front dual ports is an excellent idea for those off us that also are constrained to placing our center channel in an entetainment center.

The added bonus, I think, will be the more aesthically pleasing proportions.

Another thought I had, even though I do like the fact that the drivers exactly mimic the M60, is what if the 3" or 4" driver that Axiom already produces was used as the mid?
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/29/11 09:30 PM

Since the VP160 is to match the M60 I would suggest a little extra exposed box on each end to mimic the lower section of the M60 which has more of the finsh exposed below the grille, this in turn would give a longer sleeker and quite possibly more elegant look.

Would/could this extra volume enhance the lower FR of the speaker?
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/29/11 10:16 PM

Sure, Jason; enclosure volume is a key spec in tuning it for bass extension. This would help in achieving what Ian stated above as an intention to keep "every detail" as close as possible to the M60.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/30/11 02:01 AM

I know the volume is a key spec for bass tuning, I was thinking about this extra volume possibly causing an issue for proper tuning, but I guess the ends could always be sealed off if a smaller cabinet size is required.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/30/11 03:53 AM

No; it needs to be bigger to more closely match the M60 bass capability.
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/30/11 02:21 PM

Most importantly, does it come in anything but black?
smile
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/30/11 02:39 PM

They're calling it the Model T60.
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 09/30/11 02:48 PM

Then i'm waiting for Model T60v3
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/01/11 12:47 AM

It just hit me that the VP160 looks a lot like the old Rocket RSC200...




Posted by: michael_d

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/01/11 10:52 AM

That's the one I was referring to earlier Nick......
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/01/11 03:19 PM

Originally Posted By: nickbuol
It just hit me that the VP160 looks a lot like the old Rocket RSC200...
That was my first thought when I saw the VP160.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/02/11 09:53 PM

One difference would be the cabinet shape for internal standing waves.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/02/11 10:32 PM

That 321 speaker employs a totally different aluminum cone 6.5" bass drivers, a 4" midrange and a vifa tweeter. Different cabinet and surely a different crossover because of all this. That equates to a totally different speaker. To me it doesn't even look like the VP160.
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/02/11 10:47 PM

I agree. They have the same driver configuration W T/M W, but beyond that, they don't really look alike, IMHO. With different shape, internal volume, and drivers, they probably will not sound alike.
Posted by: bdpf

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/03/11 09:25 AM

I think the original comment was related to the look and the size (that why it was called Bigfoot), not the sound. In this regard, they do look alike (WT/MW and big enclosure).
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/03/11 09:48 AM

Within those limitations, I agree. smile
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/03/11 12:09 PM

Yea, I was just commenting on the similarities. There are a number of differences of course.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/03/11 09:00 PM

Correct Bruno, it was that first glance and initial reaction to the BOXY look, see it elsewhere just never from Axiom.
Posted by: bray

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/08/11 10:06 AM

I think it looks fine,but to be sure , just send it my way in mansfield beech and I'll give it good test. With pics.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 02:26 AM

It's been 3 weeks since this was brought to our attention, I wonder how the listening tests are going...........
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 08:04 AM

I second the motion. I'm guessing that there are sound quality issues?
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 11:38 AM

Seriously? "Sound quality issues"? To me, that seems like a pretty pejorative statement, especially considering our nearly complete lack of information about the R&D process of either this speaker or Axiom in general.

How about if we give Ian and Co. the benefit of the doubt instead of punishing him for sharing information on the forum?
Posted by: GOD

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 11:44 AM

Like, totally correct, Tom! Or... we could throw him in the lake and see if he floats?
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 12:08 PM

Well. You do have a point there. And as much as I weigh today, I'd probably float really well. Just thinking out loud....silently. Ok, ok, so it's not sound quality issues. Then it must be dispersion problems.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 12:20 PM

Actually, we're just really into testing here smile

But you're right, we're long overdue with an update, so here are two new pics for you:



And I swear nobody was hurt in the making of this second image, although you may think the VP150 got pounced on seconds after this shot was taken . . . and if that's too much anthropomorphism for the day, just ignore me! smile


Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 12:21 PM

NOM NOM NOM NOM
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 12:22 PM

That helps a lot, btw. Damn, that's a big speaker. Can we maybe get a shot of it with a VP180?
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 12:24 PM

Asking the guys, Ken. I thought the VP150 helped a lot too.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 12:33 PM

I like it a lot better now. Looks like it got a little shorter.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 12:36 PM

Cool! Thanks, Amie.

I agree with Ken, and have to wonder whether it is "enough smaller" than the VP180 to make a difference. i.e. if you think the VP180 is "too big", is this going to make a difference?
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 12:38 PM

I thought the point was to have a center speaker to better match the m60's, not to necessarily be smaller or larger than any other existing speaker?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 12:39 PM

I think there's a lot of different points...

Thousand points of laaaght...
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 12:54 PM

Dang, I wish I wasn't born a pessimist! So before I say the ugly little comical thing I was going to say right off the bat is, "This speaker looks like it's going to sound really good."

Now for the ugly little comical thing. "I like to run my speakers without the grills on them. So far, my cat hasn't punished one of the speakers with her claws, etc. (If that happens, I'll just pay to have it replaced). But she definitely can't resist sticking her paws into smallish looking holes. Those port holes will definitely be a cat paw poker attraction." Oh, well. ::ducks and runs the other way::
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 12:59 PM

Well, for the number of times Ray has said "Sell the Wife", I'll just throw "Get rid of the Cat" out there.

Thanks for sharing, Amie. Have listening tests already been done, and if this is the final prototype, is is possible to share measurements (size, not FR!)?

I want something that can eat my VP150, but maybe not swallow it whole. This might be exactly right! smile
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 01:06 PM

this talk reminds me of the fact that i've never been able to find a good explanation about why my M80's cabinets vibrate, but still i can't hear any problem with sound quality even when the sound levels are high.

does anyone have the answer to that?
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 01:07 PM

I'm just the picture transfer girl today, Mark - I'll leave it for the boys to weigh in with measurements (but not likely until tomorrow because everyone is in transit somewhere today it seems!)

Next pic with the VP180 is ready:


Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 01:07 PM

I thought the point was to silence the rabble clamoring for a W-T/M-W configuration regardless of how it might sound. I don't remember anybody saying the VP180 doesn't "match the M60's" well.

I'm going to wait until Mark buys one and reviews it. Then, I'm going to besmirch his credibility due to his square room. After that, I'll probably patiently read a whole boatload of VP150 bashing, much of it from people who've never heard one.

Yeah, I'm grumpy today. Sorry.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 01:08 PM

Sounds about like my thoughts, Tom...
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 01:12 PM

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Yeah, I'm grumpy today. Sorry.

But also funny. smile

Looking at the two together, I might actually do better with a VP180 in that it sits a little lower. Might be nmore difficult to get past the CFO though.

Either way, it's great to have options!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 01:14 PM

And Amie, when someone has a chance to get measurements, make sure it's in inches and not that Anti-American Socialist Commie Metric stuff. grin

Tom, I guess I'm right there with 'ya buddy.

Beer?
Posted by: cb919

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 01:18 PM

You mean we can't measure in beer caps or counting the number layers of hockey tape? confused
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 01:29 PM

Nope.

I WILL, however accept something akin to:

"This speaker measure 8.2 pucks high, 9.9 pucks deep and 17.4 pucks wide. It will fit on a standard shelf that measures 11 by 21 Timmies".
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 01:41 PM

Although Dan and Mark bring up excellent easy-to-understand measuring options, I'm still smarting over some comments made in the Shoutbox about our beloved national institution, Canadian Tire, by he-who-shall-remain-anonymous. Because of those ill-advised words, we will not be giving measurements in inches. We will be giving them in Canadian Tire Money, and you'll have to figure out the conversion to 'US Customary Units' yourself!

<faux FredK sig>
----------------------------------
"Metric. It works boys."
</faux FredK sig>
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 01:47 PM

Does this involve us Ameriicuhns having to walk into a place called "Princess Auto"?
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 01:51 PM

Oooh, now you're invoking the wrath of bridgman . . . backing away slowly . . .
Posted by: bdpf

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 01:52 PM

I don't know about the sound but on looks only I think it looks much better, much less boxy. I hope it does well during the listening tests. Good luck!
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 02:08 PM

But, Volvo has been proving that "boxy is good" for decades.

Good call on the puck equivalencies, Mark.
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 02:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
Actually, we're just really into testing here smile

But you're right, we're long overdue with an update, so here are two new pics for you:



AAAAHHHH! Proportions are much more satisfying. Well done. smile
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 02:26 PM

Jack has now been "satisfied" by the pictures of the speaker and its exposed ports.

Just sayin'
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 02:42 PM

Looks good.
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 04:09 PM

Originally Posted By: J. B.
this talk reminds me of the fact that i've never been able to find a good explanation about why my M80's cabinets vibrate, but still i can't hear any problem with sound quality even when the sound levels are high.

does anyone have the answer to that?


must be a trade secret!
Posted by: FordPrefect

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 04:47 PM

can I buy the first one? smile
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 04:56 PM

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Jack has now been "satisfied" by the pictures of the speaker and its exposed ports.

Just sayin'

My legal first name may be John, but unlike "Big John," I have no port fetish. It is merely the proportions which are satisfying. I'm completely neutral regarding the ports. grin

For the youthfully uninitiated, we used to have a very nice forum member named Big John who made some unfortunate remark about the attractiveness of the ports in the speakers/subwoofers which we relentlessly and mercilessly never allowed him to forget. Still miss him. He was a good guy.
Posted by: GOD

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 05:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
Although Dan and Mark bring up excellent easy-to-understand measuring options, I'm still smarting over some comments made in the Shoutbox about our beloved national institution, Canadian Tire, by he-who-shall-remain-anonymous. Because of those ill-advised words, we will not be giving measurements in inches. We will be giving them in Canadian Tire Money, and you'll have to figure out the conversion to 'US Customary Units' yourself!


----------------------------------
"Metric. It works boys."


In all fairness, Amie, I started the Canadian Tire thing. Not that I don't like seeing Fred get bitch-slapped, but I'd rather it be for his own mischief. Generally speaking, if there's someone here dissing Canada, it's usually me. Please know that I am always smiling when I do it. Ha! "You people" make me laugh.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 05:11 PM

Probably because we have no idea what you're talking about, JB!
Posted by: Ian

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 05:17 PM


J.B.

Funny you should bring that up at this time. I am writing a piece on the unintuitive workings of cabinet bracing later this month. It will answer your question.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 05:18 PM

I guess you are right. somewhere I thought I read something about driver size and numbers matching the m60's so I thought that may have been the goal.

In any event, I think this is definitely a welcome addition to the axiom center channel line up!

I wonder how it will compare to the vp180 or vp150 in listening tests?
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 05:23 PM

I'm just await for 2 events to come to a convergence.

1) The in-cabinet version is available.
2) I have the $500-600 available to purchase it.

I bet this would sound fine /dandy /groovy /far-out /awesome /bitchin' /good with my current setup.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 05:35 PM

That looks at least 10x better than the original prototype. Nice work!
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 06:11 PM

Really, Peter? Because I think it looks 17% worse than the original prototype.
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 08:25 PM

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Really, Peter? Because I think it looks 17% worse than the original prototype.

I calculated 17.86% myself.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 09:02 PM

Amie, the newer prototype is looking good(to be precise, 73.47% better). From the relative proportions it appears to be roughly 31" wide.

Brian, even if you were "born a pessimist" there's no need for "guessing" about possible problems here. As has been pointed out several times, the W T/M W configuration is well-established as a superior horizontal center design by several Axiom competitors, some at significantly higher prices. There's no reason to believe that Ian and his colleagues won't also be successful in implementing it using M60 components.
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 09:38 PM

Originally Posted By: JohnK
...the W T/M W configuration is well-established as a superior horizontal center design by several Axiom competitors, some at significantly higher prices. There's no reason to believe that Ian and his colleagues won't also be successful in implementing it using M60 components.


Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 09:58 PM

Someone doesn't like you doing that...
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/17/11 10:53 PM

Whadido? WHADIDO?
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/18/11 05:14 AM

Originally Posted By: BobKay

In all fairness, Amie, I started the Canadian Tire thing. Not that I don't like seeing Fred get bitch-slapped, but I'd rather it be for his own mischief. Generally speaking, if there's someone here dissing Canada, it's usually me. Please know that I am always smiling when I do it. Ha! "You people" make me laugh.


Roh-rooh . . . how do I unban someone? Apologies to Fred!
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/18/11 05:15 AM

Originally Posted By: JohnK
Amie, the newer prototype is looking good(to be precise, 73.47% better). From the relative proportions it appears to be roughly 31" wide.

Brian, even if you were "born a pessimist" there's no need for "guessing" about possible problems here. As has been pointed out several times, the W T/M W configuration is well-established as a superior horizontal center design by several Axiom competitors, some at significantly higher prices. There's no reason to believe that Ian and his colleagues won't also be successful in implementing it using M60 components.


That I have no doubt. I was just poking fun at the holes in the front of it. I know my cat will be poking her paws in them, if I leave them uncovered. As for the layout, it probably makes more sense not to veer away from the suggested driver configuration.

I felt something tickling my arm while I was sleeping. Brushed it off. Laid there for a while. Then was thinking, yetch, must be a spider or something. So, I got up turned the light on, and yup, a spider. About 1/2 dollar size. Grabbed him with a kleenix and flushed him away. Now I can't get back to sleep. Stupid spider!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/18/11 05:24 AM

The cats are starting the takeover. They're looking to make it look "natural".

You don't let your cats watch crime shows for tips, do you?
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/18/11 07:50 AM

Originally Posted By: Ken.C
Probably because we have no idea what you're talking about, JB!


just play some movie or some music at a loud level and, with your hand, touch lightly the sides of your main front speakers (mine are M80s) and you'll very easily feel the vibrations;
vibrations usually translate as sound and that is why cabinets are braced (sometimes heavily) to keep the sound clean, uncorrupted by cabinet vibrations. cabinet vibrations translate as distortion.

one usually can have quite a good idea of the amount of bracing in a speaker cabinet by listening to the sound when you hit it with your knuckles. ideally, it should be "dead".
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/18/11 07:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Ian

J.B.

Funny you should bring that up at this time. I am writing a piece on the unintuitive workings of cabinet bracing later this month. It will answer your question.



by "unintuitive" i suppose you mean "in a scientific manner", and not by drawing lots in a hat...
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/18/11 09:01 AM

I haven't seen the article Ian is working on yet, but Alan did a post about this once (last post on this page:)

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7375

Quoting him:
Quote:
Haoleb,

All speakers will have some residual output that you might detect if you are standing next to them or put your ear next to the enclosure, but that "coloration" is not detectable at your listening area with program material--music or movie soundtracks.

As to bracing, the notion that "more bracing is better" has not been demonstrated in a number of tests that Axiom did last year on the audibility of distortion.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/distortion.html

As you increase the amount of bracing in a speaker cabinet, you raise the resonant frequency, which may make the resonances more detectable, not less. Axiom's wedge-shaped anti-standing wave enclosure design suppresses the formation of resonances before they can become a problem.

The old "knock test" of a speaker enclosure says nothing about the potential detectability of any resonances. It's about as useful as kicking the tires on a car.

Here's a relevant excerpt from that article:

"For the designer, this presents an interesting paradox to beware of: Audible distortion may increase if distortion is lowered at the price of raising its occurrence frequency."

A good speaker design aims for no audible distortion and this means getting the proper amount of bracing not the most amount of bracing.
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

Posted by: J. B.

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/18/11 09:35 AM

Now i understand, thanks a lot, Amie

i read something quite funny in this article: "http://www.axiomaudio.com/distortion.html", where it says:
"The first group of eight listeners (average 92 dB SPL playback level) ranged in age from 20 to 60 (+/-3 dB) and included a mix of male and female auditioners..."
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/18/11 10:10 AM

Gotta love Alan's sense of humour!
Posted by: Sarang

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/18/11 10:53 AM

Just wondering if the subwoofers are also wedged internally to counter the resonance??
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/18/11 11:16 AM

The new proportions look much better on the latest prototype VP160, imo.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/18/11 12:11 PM

Sarang, Steve tells me I'm not understanding your question so I had better clarify . . . are you asking if the subs have bracing, or if they have the same wedge shape as the bookshelf, floorstanding and center channel speakers?
Posted by: Sarang

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/18/11 01:36 PM

Amie, what I meant to ask was that contrary to the wedge shape of the floorstanders, center channels and bookshelf speakers, axiom subwoofers do not have anti-standing wave enclosure design (wedge shape) to counter the resonances. Are the resonances eliminated by some other means in the subwoofers?
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/18/11 01:48 PM

Sarang, the EP600 and EP800 DO have the ASW cabinets. I see what you mean about the others, though.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/18/11 02:03 PM

My guess is, like a good bran muffin, the LF just passes right through it. No shaping necessary. The box is sized to control air pressure.
Posted by: GOD

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/18/11 03:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Murph
My guess is, like a good bran muffin, the LF just passes right through it. No shaping necessary. The box is sized to control air pressure.


I give! You rule! You squeezed a scat reference into a tech thread. Brilliant!
Posted by: Ian

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/18/11 06:40 PM

Sarang,

Since the subwoofers are only producing very long wave lengths it mitigates the need for the anti-symmetrical cabinet design. There could be aesthetic reasons for following the same design though.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/18/11 07:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
Originally Posted By: BobKay

In all fairness, Amie, I started the Canadian Tire thing. Not that I don't like seeing Fred get bitch-slapped, but I'd rather it be for his own mischief. Generally speaking, if there's someone here dissing Canada, it's usually me. Please know that I am always smiling when I do it. Ha! "You people" make me laugh.


Roh-rooh . . . how do I unban someone? Apologies to Fred!

Oh sure, ban a guy while he's off for dental surgery.

No Bob, I did not have the surgery at Canadian tire after drinking 4 Timmies as anesthetics.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/18/11 09:32 PM

Sarang, Ian pointed out the major reason why subs, for the most part, don't make use of non-parallel sides for the enclosure. The small "room" that the inside of the enclosure forms follows the same room mode rules as do our listening rooms. If the modes that would exist in that "room" are well above the frequencies that the sub actually plays, then reducing or spreading them out wouldn't be of benefit. For example, calculate the modes for a room say 1.2'x1.5'x1.8', or more conveniently, use a calculator such as this one . Note that the resulting standing waves inside the subwoofer "room" are all in the mid-range and far above what frequencies are actually played.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/18/11 10:29 PM

For loudspeakers though you would want to avoid resonance frequencies in the mid-range at the very least. For subwoofers though how can it be a bad thing to raise the resonant frequency?

That said some of the best possible performing loudspeakers like the Revel Salon 2 have very, very inert cabinets, on the opposite spectrum, the Infinity Primus are basically hallow cabinets but still offer very good performance. Controlling cabinet resonance I think would depend on a lot of factors and not one that is a matter of being absolute. Its like a lot of tradeoffs in loudspeaker design.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/19/11 01:27 AM

That is awesome, I want one! When do you think it will be available Ian?

That really dwarfs the 150, which will work out great using the 160 above the TV screen and 150 below, can't wait!
Posted by: Ian

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/19/11 02:55 AM

BlueJays1,

The points you are making are exactly what I am going to cover in my upcoming newsletter piece on bracing. It seems like it is going to be a very timely article given the current discussion.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/19/11 09:44 AM

Originally Posted By: JohnK
Sarang, Ian pointed out the major reason why subs, for the most part, don't make use of non-parallel sides for the enclosure.


Hey, I explained it first. Ian just didn't use the Bran Muffin analogy. I guess I lost points for not being staff or not being the slightest bit eloquent.

Ian is, admittedly, much more knowledgeable than I and he has Shania Twain's Summer Home on the other side of his lake. I can't compete with that.
I humbly concede.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/19/11 09:45 AM

Here is an AES publication on this very topic. JohnK probably already has it in his collection smile .

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=5163
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/19/11 05:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
I'm just the picture transfer girl today, Mark - I'll leave it for the boys to weigh in with measurements (but not likely until tomorrow because everyone is in transit somewhere today it seems!)

Next pic with the VP180 is ready:



Oh yeah....now we're talking! Much mo betta..
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 10/20/11 01:07 AM

Loving it, I can't wait to get a chance to hear/buy this speaker.
Posted by: DSR7997

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 11/03/11 11:24 AM

All of a sudden My wife Tina is getting agitated and she doesn't even know why. She must feel the "disturbance in the force". Looks real good so far!
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 11/23/11 11:00 PM

Still waiting patiently for more on this, hoping it will be ready for purchasing soon; Santa could use one.
Posted by: Ian

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 11/24/11 05:37 AM


Hi Jason,

We are very close now on finishing the design. I think we will make it in time.

Cheers,
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 11/25/11 01:11 AM

smile smile smile
Posted by: Chevy

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 11/25/11 01:47 AM

Looks better than picture on page one of this forum.
Putting vent ports on face it's wise (easier for common design for the in/on wall or cabinet future version).
It's also make them less boxy look.
Good Job!
Can i have a beta unit for test ??...free smile... pleeease
Posted by: TonyN

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 11/27/11 11:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Chevy
Looks better than picture on page one of this forum.
Putting vent ports on face it's wise (easier for common design for the in/on wall or cabinet future version).
It's also make them less boxy look.
Good Job!
Can i have a beta unit for test ??...free smile... pleeease


Agreed ^, looking good!

I just sat here and read through this entire thread. Haven't been on here in a while.

I am crossing my fingers that this new center will be a nice improvement over the vp150 and get carried over to the on/in-wall series. I WILL upgrade my on wall vp150 if this happens. Maybe widen the cabinet for the on walls some since it will have less depth. I'm sure I am just dreaming though!

Crossing fingers!

smile
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 11/28/11 07:53 AM

My best guess is, that the in-cabinet will be the closest they will come to an in/on-wall VP160. I say this because they haven't produced any in/on-wall M60 or M80. Apparently the cabinet volume is necessary for them to work correctly.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/16/11 07:05 PM

Dang, I was hoping this would be my Christmas present for this year! I might have to get a new TV instead, you guys are making me jealous with the LCD,Plasma.....all I have is a Panasonic 55" rear projection, which is on it's second bulb.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/16/11 07:14 PM

I hear you, brother.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/17/11 10:44 AM

Just filmed this yesterday for the newsletter:
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/17/11 12:44 PM

looks very good Mr. and Mrs. Axiom...

;-)
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/17/11 01:11 PM

Yay, Debbie!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/17/11 01:58 PM

Awesome, Amie!

Has a price been announced yet?
Posted by: alan

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/17/11 02:35 PM

Nice job on the video, Deb!

Alan
Posted by: casey01

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/17/11 04:03 PM

Just wondering, what are the dimensions and weight of the VP160?
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/17/11 04:43 PM

WooHoo, looking like things are nearly ready!!
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/17/11 04:43 PM

@Mark, price is $570 and pre-order pricing will be announced in the newsletter which we're trying to get out Monday or Tuesday at the latest.

@casey:

Dimens. H W D (inches):
11.5" x 30" x 13.66"

Dimens. H W D (mm):
292 x 760 x 347

Weight (lbs) each
47.6 lbs

Weight (kg) each
21.591 kg
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/17/11 04:49 PM

And if you'll pardon the quality, here's a shot I took with my cellphone on the 'set' of the video that catches a bit of the side:


Posted by: FireGuy

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/17/11 05:42 PM

Very nice. You guys don't do anything small.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/17/11 05:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
@Mark, price is $570 and pre-order pricing will be announced in the newsletter which we're trying to get out Monday or Tuesday at the latest.


Nice!
Is there a target date for availability, or am I just jumping the gun here? grin
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/17/11 06:37 PM

wow, just beautiful!
Posted by: casey01

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/17/11 08:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
@Mark, price is $570 and pre-order pricing will be announced in the newsletter which we're trying to get out Monday or Tuesday at the latest.

@casey:

Dimens. H W D (inches):
11.5" x 30" x 13.66"

Dimens. H W D (mm):
292 x 760 x 347

Weight (lbs) each
47.6 lbs

Weight (kg) each
21.591 kg


One more question that I previously forgot to ask: When will one be able to order custom finishes?
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/17/11 10:08 PM

It could not have come out better. Really great job Axiom. smile
Posted by: CV

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/17/11 10:55 PM

Maybe I'll have a VP180 above the screen, a VP180 below the screen, and a VP160 in the middle of the screen, to really anchor the dialogue.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/18/11 09:39 AM

We're targeting January 25th for shipping them out, and preorders (including custom finishes) by Tuesday, so they would be able to ship on the 25th as well. Great to get everyone's feedback - thank you!
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/18/11 01:12 PM

Originally Posted By: alan
Nice job on the video, Deb!

Alan


Agreed!

It was a pleasure to meet Debbie at the GTG. She not only knows what she's talking about, but she's beautiful, too (like the Amie's smile ).

Where do I submit my resume for a job at the plant? HEHE
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/18/11 04:15 PM

Luv It!
Posted by: mpyw

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/19/11 07:23 AM

now...should I upgrade my projector or this??

tough choice!
Posted by: saillard

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/19/11 02:06 PM

Very good timing.
Now I need to decide if I want the VP180 or VP160 to go with my M80. Will it be a big difference between the 2?
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/19/11 09:34 PM

Note, that as announced in the newsletter today, the pre-order price will be $460 rather than $570 until January 5th.

As to the specs, the weight is shown as precisely the same 21.591kg as the M60, which is unlikely because of the different enclosure, so this might not actually be a current measurement.

It would also be interesting to have the crossover frequencies, and comments from Ian, Alan or Andrew on the history of the design process.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/20/11 10:12 AM

Not that I can afford it right now, but I'm asking for others that might be interested.

Can a pre-pay be done for the in-cabinet VP160 model now, then wait for it? (I'm assuming that there will be an in-cabinet model.)
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/20/11 07:09 PM

@ JohnK, thanks for the sharp eye! I've updated the VP160 weight:

Weight (lbs) each 43.2 lbs
Weight (kg) each 19.59 kg

@CatBrat: good question and the answer is yes, you can prepay for the VP160 in-cabinet version now as well as the regular version.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/20/11 07:55 PM

I never got my newsletter! frown
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/20/11 08:01 PM

Only the cool people get it.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/20/11 08:39 PM

Concerning the VP160 in-cabinet model.

The VP160 is going to be a tight fit, but I think I can make it work without major renovation. From stud to stud, I have 30 1/4 inches. From backside of drywall to heat duct rising from furnace, I have about 13 inches. would probably need to frame the outside of wall with 2x2's to gain a couple inches clearance from heating duct. I don't think the area around the duct itself produces much heat, but I'd probably add some insulation to seperate the 2 just in case. Here's some pictures. of where it'd have to go. The VP150 is fairly centered, off by about 1 inch.

There is a floor just under this spot, so building a support under the speaker here presents no problem.

I might purchase one of these, but I'll probably wait until the last day before I place an order. (Marking my calander.) Do you think it'll really make that much of a difference with my 2 pairs of M22 mains and EP350? I can always send it back if I don't notice that big of a difference, I guess. Probably never see one at this $460 price again.




Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/21/11 05:21 AM

Hmm . . .you should have just a slight clearance to that pipe - tight fit, but a fit! You don't need to worry about the heat affecting the speaker - the heat from a heat duct isn't enough to do any damage to the speaker.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/21/11 09:48 AM

Thanks Amie. The reason I need to wait is I'm having a basement wall being braced from the outside on Jan 3rd. And some pest control for silverfish done on the 6th. That leaves me just a little over what I need for this speaker. If there are no additional expenses by Jan 5th, then I'll call in a pre-order for the in-cabinet version.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/21/11 10:38 AM

I was just wondering how to make a look-alike wood border for the in-cabinet version, like the on-wall speakers have, with the least amount of work and expense.

One idea I have is to use some 2 to 3 inch dowels, 45 degree angle corners. Then sand down the portion where it makes contact with the speaker and with the wall. Then stain a proper wood finish. Then mount the wood to the wall around the opening. Then mount the in-cabinet speaker to the wood (with a brace underneath the speaker from the backside).
Posted by: casey01

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/21/11 10:42 AM

Just wondering, when plugging in the numbers for a "custom" finish,in this case "high-gloss black piano", in the pre-order box, the total seems to be based on what would be the regular price and not calculated on the pre-order base price, is that correct?
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/21/11 11:38 AM

The upcharge is based on the model (you'll see it's the same as the M60 in this case), but the upcharge is being calculated on the promo price, not the regular price.
Posted by: Ian

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/21/11 01:46 PM


JohnK,

The design goal for the VP160 was to be a seamless match for M60s. This would seem somewhat straightforward since all the drivers are the same, but because the driver configuration is not identical this means adjustments to the cross-over need to be made to compensate for off-axis variations. To do this we do not really change the cross-over points, but we do adjust the slopes.

Below is a graph showing a comparison of both the listening window response (an average of the curves in a narrow sphere around the forward axis) and the sound power (an average of on-axis and all off-axis measurements).

For the double blind listen testing we used a 3rd M60 to compare to the VP160 to ensure a proper blend across the front was achieved.


Posted by: michael_d

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/21/11 01:47 PM

How well do you think the VP160 would blend with a VP150 for a over/under screen center channel set up? I love the over/under set up and would prefer to stick with it. I don't have room for a VP160 over my screen, so the VP150 would have to stay and work with a VP160 under the screen. Currently, the VP150 works quite well with 2 M22s - output level is within 1 DB.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/21/11 04:45 PM

I'm hoping the Vp160 works well enough that you won't feel the need to have the second center over the screen.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/21/11 05:45 PM

It's probably about anchoring the sound to the center of the screen. I've attempted to do this with an M2 over the screen, but a bigger speaker would be more effective.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/21/11 06:58 PM

I dunno Jay.... I thought I was pretty happy running two M22's till I put the VP over the screen. It does take some time angling the thing to direct towards the seating location, but once I had it figured out, it made a very significant improvement. And if you've followed my thoughts and opinions on sound over the years here, you'll know that I don't get terribly excited over small details. I am happy enough to not really need to make a change, but I had planned to move the M22's to the Wide channels and was just waiting for this new center (as the 180 is simply too big for my room). I'll just have to order one and give it a whirl I reckon....
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/21/11 07:02 PM

I do remember when you installed the upper and I can remember my own experiments with dual centers and I would agree it does make an improvement. I also know that my experience with the VP180 made me realize just how much a great center can add to the experience.

I am willing to bet this will be something you will have to try for yourself to know if you like it or not.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/21/11 07:26 PM

Ya, you are right of course. I'm just going to have to order one. I need to give Axiom a call and find out what stain and finish my other speakers are so I can match them.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/21/11 10:41 PM

I can let you know what I think when mine arrives....I still have my M22's just not my VP150. I can try to mount my VP100 up high to attempt a similar scenario, but it still comes down to your preference and room.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/22/11 12:07 AM

Ian, thanks for the info. Obviously the design goal has been met. This should be a popular choice for anyone looking for a horizontal center to go with the M60s or any other mains with a similarly wide and smooth response.
Posted by: saillard

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/22/11 10:15 AM

Ian,
It is nice to see the curve matching the M60. This center speaker is design to match the M60 based on the driver configuration. The question is how much is it matching the M80? I know that the recommendation will be to match the M80 with the VP180, but in many applications it will not be possible. Thanks to the port on the front (nice idea), the VP160 is more flexible in terms of placement in cabinet or closer to back wall.
I would like to hear what Axiom has to say about the M80 and VP160 match.
It is clear that it is possible to match the M60 with the bigger VP180 and I am assuming that the VP160 would match well with the M80. Am I right?
Posted by: casey01

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/22/11 11:49 AM

I would expect the match with the M80s would still be more than adequate. Realistically speaking, and I may be wrong, other than Paradigm and Axiom, I have yet to see another speaker manufacturer out there, regardless of price, offer a center channel that is of the size and number of drivers that match their floor standing models. The vast majority of the CC models tend to be of the small size with the matching smaller drivers that exist in the L/R models which these various manufacturers claim offers a "seamless" transition. From my own experience, it just not possible to do this especially when these small center channels are very influenced by their limited cabinet size, positioning and little "low end" sound capability.

I am sure the VP160 would be easily up to the task.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/22/11 12:00 PM

It'll be interesting also to see how the VP160 will sound with my 2 pair of M22 mains with EP350. Panning from side to side "might" be noticeable, but maybe not by that much. I'm hopeful for deeper male vocals and better bass guitar. I plan on setting L/R M22's to small (Cut off at 80hz), and VP160 center to Large (no cutoff).
Posted by: casey01

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/22/11 12:19 PM

Originally Posted By: CatBrat
It'll be interesting also to see how the VP160 will sound with my 2 pair of M22 mains with EP350. Panning from side to side "might" be noticeable, but maybe not by that much. I'm hopeful for deeper male vocals and better bass guitar. I plan on setting L/R M22's to small (Cut off at 80hz), and VP160 center to Large (no cutoff).


Prior to obtaining my current M80s, I had M22s as my mains. Because of the cabinet and driver size of the VP160, I would suspect there would be a natural noticeable difference since even if you had, for example, both the M22s and VP160 set for an 80HZ cutoff, of course, as you know, these crossovers are gradual and you would still hear some direct sounding bass(60>80HZ) in the VP160 that the M22s are not capable of producing to the same degree anyway. In my opinion, the VP160 set to LARGE would probably even be more noticeable. (M60s/80s here we come?).
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/22/11 12:31 PM

Originally Posted By: casey01
(M60s/80s here we come?).


Not for this room. The speakers are forced to be too close together. M50's with M22's paired up on top would be the biggest I'd be willing to go. I'm trying to get other projects done, so purchases for this room will be few and far between.
Posted by: Ian

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/22/11 12:38 PM


saillard and michael d,

Since your questions are in the same vein I would like to take the liberty to just cover them together. Mixing our various fronts and centres together will certainly work just fine as the timbre characteristics are the same in all of our products. The introduction of the VP180 and now the VP160 are really just putting a finer point on the little details. So the VP180 is an exact match to the M80s and the VP160 is an exact match to the M60s. I hate to bring it up but I guess connecting these dots means a centre for the M50s would have to be next.

It is really a matter of practicality. If your particular environment does not allow for the keeping it all the same (M80s with VP180 or M60s with VP160) then it is no problem to mix it up; your system will perform wonderfully.
Posted by: Philippe

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/22/11 03:49 PM

Does a new center for the M50 will replace the actual VP150/100 ? I guess it would be a smaller box including 2 6.5" driver and i tweeter, like the VP100 but a little bigger.
Posted by: Bayne

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/22/11 10:27 PM

Sigh... It's been almost exactly 5 years since I ordered all the speakers for my home theatre and now I just pre-ordered the VP160. I'll miss my VP150, but can't wait to hear it matched to my M60's. Too bad my home theatre is shutdown for a major renovation so I won't be able to try it out for a few months, but I just had to take advantage of the pre-order price.

Curse you Axiom for encouraging my upgradeitis!
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/22/11 11:11 PM

Bayne, Welcome back, long time no read!

You can come over to my place and listen to the VP160 which should be delivered TOMORROW!!!!!!!!(YES, I typed that right) It was actually on truck for delivery today but I wasn't home frown
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/22/11 11:23 PM

Bayne, long time no see; welcome back! It's good to see that you're still enjoying your Axioms. Apparently you'll also be able to enjoy Jason's for the next few months.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/23/11 10:37 AM

I just ordered mine, but how did you manage to get yours early Jason?
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/23/11 06:22 PM

I would like to know some more about the dimensions. How much of a slope is there to the back. The vp 180 is just too big for my current arrangement. Basically i would like to know how high the rear is.
Posted by: Ian

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/23/11 06:35 PM


Socketman,

The rear is 9.75" (247mm) high.
Posted by: Bayne

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/23/11 08:10 PM

Originally Posted By: jakewash
Bayne, Welcome back, long time no read!

You can come over to my place and listen to the VP160 which should be delivered TOMORROW!!!!!!!!(YES, I typed that right) It was actually on truck for delivery today but I wasn't home frown


Did Santa deliver it today?

Thanks for the offer. I might have to take you up on it, but may decide to wait as it'll give me more motivation to get our renovations completed as soon as possible.
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/23/11 08:32 PM

Thanks Ian. Guess i will have to go for a vp 150, just not enough room at this point.

Richard
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/24/11 02:15 AM

Santa delivered.





Is it really the VP160...........
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/24/11 02:05 PM

Looks like a box of foam to me.... ya damn tease. smile

So which stand, or stands goes with the 160? I just realized I can't make one, so I'll have to buy one.
Posted by: FireGuy

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/24/11 08:05 PM

I'm unboxing my M22'sV3 tomorrow. Ahhh...what lies beneath.
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/25/11 06:56 AM

it looks like this model speaks french.

bonjour Monsieur!
Posted by: Jc

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/25/11 10:02 AM

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL !
Originally Posted By: J. B.
it looks like this model speaks french. . .

Hi, En effet il se débrouille super bien en français and also excels en musique, en trames sonores and all other languages. Another superb Axiom product which I had a chance to audition (blind test) last Tuesday.


Posted by: J. B.

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/25/11 12:50 PM

je n'ai pas de place pour un canal centre.
à moins qu'il ne me vienne une idée brillante (ce qui est très râre), j'ai maintenant terminé la mise à jour de mon système AV.
Posted by: Jc

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/25/11 06:57 PM

J.B., J'utilise 2 enceintes centrales; une sur un support et l'autre suspendue du plafond. Suspendre votre enceinte centrale du plafond ne serait pas un option ?
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/26/11 07:39 AM

comme tu peut le voir sur cette photo, le seul endroit où je pourrais placer l'enceinte centrale serait de la suspendre du plafond:
http://gellidius.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4a52ra

mais cette pièce est trop étroite (9 pi.) pour que ça en vaille la peine.
en réalité, à cause de cette étroitesse, il n'y a qu'une seule place, le centre, où je puisse avoir du bon son, et le fauteuil à droite est rârement utilisé.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/26/11 11:55 AM

Or get a different TV stand!
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/26/11 01:12 PM

the reason i don't need a center speaker is the fact that the great majority of the time i'm all alone watching movies or TV and i sit right at the center.
the right side chair is rarely used, a max of 3 hours a week, all in one sitting.

as i'm always sitting dead center, the dialog is always dead center too.
the dialog is also very easily understandable.

if i really needed a center speaker, then i would surely install one, most probably suspend it from the ceiling, as JC suggested.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/26/11 04:14 PM

I usually sit in the center of my setup also. My remote allows me to rotate between the different audio formats. I find surround setting with my 3.1 setup to be much improved over stereo sound only.
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/26/11 05:10 PM

if you look at my room, you'll see that i can easily do both:
use the remote towards the rack at the left and do some changes by hand, as the rack is at arm's length.

for me, this arrangement is ideal.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/26/11 05:43 PM

My point is, a real center speaker sounds better than a phantom center speaker.
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/26/11 05:50 PM

could very well be, i don't know.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/26/11 06:48 PM

Originally Posted By: CatBrat
My point is, a real center speaker sounds better than a phantom center speaker.


Yes,mainly for movies!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/26/11 08:10 PM

Originally Posted By: CatBrat
My point is, a real center speaker sounds better than a phantom center speaker.

I'm not so sure about this. (Not that i have evidence to the contrary, either).

A phantom center would be perfectly matched to the mains, of course, since it's created by the mains. And if you're sitting dead center, I don't see issues with dispersion of sound.

To me, the benefits of using a separate center involve anchoring the dialog to the center image when people are sitting outside of the sweet spot, and having the ability to "bump up" the center by a few decibels to increase intelligibility of poorly-mixed soundtracks (though some receivers might allow the phantom channel level to be bumped as well.... I don't know)
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/26/11 08:11 PM

Amazing how people that don't have centers say it doesn't sound any better with one. lol.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/26/11 08:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark


I'm not so sure about this. (Not that i have evidence to the contrary, either).

A phantom center would be perfectly matched to the mains, of course, since it's created by the mains. And if you're sitting dead center, I don't see issues with dispersion of sound.

To me, the benefits of using a separate center involve anchoring the dialog to the center image when people are sitting outside of the sweet spot, and having the ability to "bump up" the center by a few decibels to increase intelligibility of poorly-mixed soundtracks (though some receivers might allow the phantom channel level to be bumped as well.... I don't know)


All the extensive testing I did of various center speakers and using a phantom center fits exactly with what you say Mark. There can be benefits as you mention, however there can also be issues especially with tone changing between the speakers even identical ones.

@ J. B. I wouldn’t even think of using a center speaker in your setup. It certainly wouldn’t be worth the money and IMO based on a similar setup I had it would likely sound worse than a phantom center because it would localize the center channel too much. The only thing that will sound more seamless than what you have now are headphones, but then you’ll lose the midbass punch, so stick with what you’ve got.
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/26/11 08:50 PM

grunt, that's what i tend to believe would happen too.

that would create a kind of distortion:
for someone sitting in front of the RF speaker, sounds from the LF speaker would move over towards the RF speaker, but the sound from the CF would not move as much as the rest.
is my thinking right?
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/26/11 09:31 PM

Jacques, in the past I did a fair amount of experimenting with a phantom center and found it very satisfactory in the circumstances you describe. Two advantages of a separate center speaker are that the center image is anchored to the center even for listening off the center axis and that the ability to increase the center volume independent of the mains helps with low-level movie dialog. Neither of these appear to be significant for you. You report no problem with hearing dialog and you're positioned in the center anyway.

If a listener to the phantom center moves to the side the image stays in front of him and also moves to the side, but no farther out than the speaker on that side.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/26/11 10:19 PM

You guys are speaking from a perspective of tonal match and off-axis viewing. I'm speaking from a perspective of switching back and forth and determining which one sounds the best.
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/26/11 10:31 PM

I am going to say it depends on the movie mix. I am a 2 channel movie guy and most movies sound pretty darn good. Pixar's The Incredibles is astonishing. Watch the scene where Mr. Incredible goes to see Edna for a new suit. Poorly mixed movies (Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen) can leave the dialog very recessed and having the ability to bump up the center would be nice.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/27/11 06:26 AM

Originally Posted By: CatBrat
Amazing how people that don't have centers say it doesn't sound any better with one. lol.

I'm not sure if I'm missing your point, but I have a VP150.

Is Jason the only one to do a listening test on the new VP160?

I'm anxious to hear more reviews so I can try to decide between the VP160 and VP180 during the promotional period!
Posted by: grunt

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/27/11 08:21 AM

Originally Posted By: J.B.

that would create a kind of distortion:
for someone sitting in front of the RF speaker, sounds from the LF speaker would move over towards the RF speaker, but the sound from the CF would not move as much as the rest.
is my thinking right?

How the sound moves relative to speaker/listening position will depend on how it’s mixed. Not all sound coming from the mains is the same. A door closing off stage left is still going to come from the left speaker no matter where you sit if it was mixed that way. Anything that is mixed evenly between the two mains, often drummers and lead singers in bands and much movie dialogue will move closer to the nearest main speaker. How great this effect is depends on how far apart your speakers are, how off center you sit and how far from the screen you sit. In your case you can’t get very far off center, your mains aren’t very far apart both of which will help to keep the front soundstage imaged around the screen.

Sitting very close can make the sound seem more like it’s coming from the speaker itself rather than a generalized soundfield centered around the screen. However, this also holds true for a center speaker where if you sit very close the center, since it often has less blending with the mains, than they have with each other, can sound like a point source. So you end up hearing the speaker as distinct and separate from the rest of the sound field. This is most likely to happen with a vertical speaker. On the other hand if you have a horizontal center and sit very close it can blur the imaging especially of a stereo recording being played back in multi-channel. This can also happen with things like movie dialogue where it should sound like it’s coming from a particular character on each side of the screen but instead gets all blended together by a horizontal center.

To give you a perspective I have 3 M80s as L/C/R. I often turn off my center M80 when listening to well mastered music where I want the surround speakers engaged but don’t want the issues a center can cause for a well mastered front soundstage. I also often have to tweak things when watching things on Netflix, which I only get in two channel, because the receiver in multi-channel pulls all the dialogue to the center while leaving the music and sound effects alone. With my mains over 12 feet apart what I end up with is much of the sound field collapsing to the center speaker. Instead I switch over to Dolby PLIIx and use the controls to adjust the width of the center image so it blends with the rest of the soundstage.

If you or anyone is interested I’m sure somewhere around here are the lengthy comments I made while testing center speakers in my apartment and house. I’ve tried a VP150, single M22s, double M22s (both vertical (each side of the screen and above and below the screen) and horizontal), single M2, a vertical upright M80 and a vertical upside-down M80 and phantom M80s. The results were so dependent on the situation, room, seating, speaker position, source material etc. . ., that the only generalization I can make is if you need/want a center speaker getting one identical to your mains, or as closely sonically matched, is almost always going to sound best, but even this isn’t an absolute. So there just isn’t any simple - things always sound better with a center speaker solution.

Posted by: J. B.

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/27/11 08:47 AM

thanks for the short but very interesting reading. :-)
Posted by: casey01

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/27/11 02:05 PM

It is nice to see someone who has played around with this stuff as much as I have. In the end, despite all, I think going back several years ago when THX was more in vogue, I believe their concept still applies today that in listening to both music and movies in a multi-channel format, the optimum way of hearing the sound as intended was to have identical speakers in their appropriate position for ALL channels. Of course, in the vast majority of home theater set-ups, this is just not possible,hence, the development of horizontal center channels and to a less extent multi-driver surrounds like the QWS4s/QS8s which, in the end, are still compromises and more affected by room acoustics and positioning. The QS series and speakers of their type, of course, are designed to replicate the multi-speaker surround set-up in theaters that is just not possible in the vast majority of homes.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/27/11 03:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
@Mark, price is $570 and pre-order pricing will be announced in the newsletter which we're trying to get out Monday or Tuesday at the latest.

@casey:

Dimens. H W D (inches):
11.5" x 30" x 13.66"

Dimens. H W D (mm):
292 x 760 x 347

Weight (lbs) each
47.6 lbs

Weight (kg) each
21.591 kg


Bump.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/27/11 10:27 PM

Originally Posted By: casey01
It is nice to see someone who has played around with this stuff as much as I have. In the end, despite all, I think going back several years ago when THX was more in vogue, I believe their concept still applies today that in listening to both music and movies in a multi-channel format, the optimum way of hearing the sound as intended was to have identical speakers in their appropriate position for ALL channels. Of course, in the vast majority of home theater set-ups, this is just not possible,hence, the development of horizontal center channels and to a less extent multi-driver surrounds like the QWS4s/QS8s which, in the end, are still compromises and more affected by room acoustics and positioning. The QS series and speakers of their type, of course, are designed to replicate the multi-speaker surround set-up in theaters that is just not possible in the vast majority of homes.


I agree!

In a perfect room identical full range speakers would be the best possible setup. Unfortunately not many people have access, even when purpose built, to perfect rooms so they must as you say compromise.
Posted by: CV

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/28/11 12:26 AM

I wish I had the money to at least approach non-compromise.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/28/11 11:03 AM

Yes Mark, I am the only one smile , I have a pre-production VP160, they won't be ready for shipping till about the end of January.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/28/11 03:16 PM

Well, then YOU have to compare it to a VP180!

Get crackin'!
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/28/11 07:09 PM

Jason probably had to sign a NDA.
Posted by: CV

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/29/11 12:14 AM

He probably signed it under his pseudonym, bbigwyres.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 12/29/11 01:46 AM

I will have to get a hold of Icehawk27 to be able to compare it with the VP180, which is in the works. I will guess the VP160 will be shipping to all before this comparison happens.

I did get a SHHHH order from Amie smile
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/06/12 11:26 AM

Just curious. How many VT160 speakers were sold through the pre-order process? Is this a number that Axiom can share with us?
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/06/12 02:13 PM

Although we normally wouldn't share a number like that, I feel comfortable making an exception just this once. There were no VT160s sold at all.;) We've been surprised at the number of VP160s, though, right up until the end of the day yesterday!
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/06/12 02:18 PM

You tell 'em Amie!
We don't take no stinkin spellin errrs, round hear.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/06/12 02:22 PM

I was just relieved at the easy out ;0)
Posted by: FordPrefect

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/06/12 02:55 PM

smile
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/06/12 03:42 PM

Grrrr. Hisss hisss. Booooooo.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/06/12 04:40 PM

laugh
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/06/12 07:27 PM

I know of 4 that were presold plus mine so that makes 5
Posted by: Bill3508

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/09/12 09:39 PM

Originally Posted By: jakewash
I know of 4 that were presold plus mine so that makes 5


Add mine to that tally. Can't wait to get it. Replacing a vp100.
Posted by: tjmorri

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/11/12 04:50 PM

The VP160 does look interesting but I'm running M80's. I would think the VP180 could also benefit from raised tweeters.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/11/12 05:14 PM

tj, Axiom did VERY extensive development on the VP180. It is already the best it can be.
Posted by: Joe_in_SC

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/11/12 09:53 PM

Mine's on order, too. So that makes 7!
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/11/12 10:13 PM

TJ, there's no inconsistency in using the VP160 with M80s. You might find it to be as good or better than the VP180.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/11/12 10:16 PM

Indeed. There is no rule that if one of your speakers has an 8 in its name then the rest should, as well.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/12/12 12:34 AM

TJ, I HAVE the VP160, the first of its kind in the general public and it works seemlessly with my M80v2's, from what I can remember of when I ran a M60 as a center(briefly) the VP160 is working just as well smile
Posted by: JBall

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/12/12 12:46 AM

Originally Posted By: jakewash
TJ, I HAVE the VP160, the first of its kind in the general public and it works seemlessly with my M80v2's, from what I can remember of when I ran a M60 as a center(briefly) the VP160 is working just as well smile


Now that's good news!
Posted by: saillard

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/12/12 12:05 PM

I was having the same dilema since I have M80. I have enough room for VP180 but choose to go with the VP160 because IMO it looks better for off-axis seating.
So, it is 8 so far for the VP160 pre-order.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/12/12 08:43 PM

Originally Posted By: pmbuko
Indeed. There is no rule that if one of your speakers has an 8 in its name then the rest should, as well.

::puts away crayons:: blush
Posted by: Wid

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/12/12 09:26 PM


Ordered a 160 tonight, can't wait.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/12/12 09:49 PM

Right on, Rick! I am eager to hear how you like it.
Posted by: JBall

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/12/12 10:11 PM

based on comments here, it sounds like the VP160 is destine for greatness. Now I'm wishing I waited for the VP160 before buying my center channel frown
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/13/12 01:31 AM

That just gives you something to look forward to for the next big upgrade.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/13/12 08:44 AM

New MCACC microphone ordered from Pioneer site. $61.94.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/13/12 09:50 AM

expensive kitty!lol
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/13/12 09:51 AM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
expensive kitty!lol


Yeah, well I really can't blame her. If I were her I would of gone for the bigger cords too.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/19/12 03:35 PM



Has the in-cabinet VP160 arrived yet?

No, I don't see anything out there yet.

Ok. Let's try again tomorrow.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/19/12 03:53 PM

"Coming Soon" to a HT near you!
Posted by: Dduval

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/20/12 08:07 AM

Has anyone else received their VP160 yet?

It says ships in 3 business days, so a few might already have it?
Getting ready to order one and was just wondering if any more user reviews...

Thx!

Dana
Posted by: FordPrefect

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/20/12 09:25 AM

I'm getting the custom finish so I'm not expecting an email until February.

They did post when they would be available and i'm sure someone will post the actual date.

If not I'll give you a possibly incorrect date Jan 25th.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/20/12 09:30 AM

The in-cabinet, I'm guessing probably 1 to 3 months later.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/20/12 09:53 AM

January 25th is correct!
Posted by: Wid

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/20/12 10:00 AM


Five days and counting, can't wait.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/21/12 12:14 PM

I can feel all the excitment, can't wait for everyone to get their own.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/24/12 05:27 PM





Now? Are they shipping now?
Posted by: fredk

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/24/12 06:28 PM

Try this:



Maybe it will ship faster.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/24/12 07:33 PM

I've got that picture too. Let's see if it helps.
Posted by: FordPrefect

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 04:35 AM

Today is the day! grin cool grin cool grin
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 09:42 AM

Ooooh nelly, they're on the roll! Pic on Facebook . . . Pic here too!


Posted by: Wid

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 09:51 AM


No Boston cherry frown
Posted by: FordPrefect

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 10:06 AM

no Cherry/Chestnut either frown


grin
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 10:12 AM

Any idea when the in-cabinet VP160's might start shipping? I see this as a install once and leave it there forever type of installation.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 10:23 AM

Here comes the changing of the finish . . .



Debbie is keeping a close eye on things!

Catbrat - I'm trying to get an audience with my husband to find out about the in-cabinet version. In my twenties, this was easier . . .
Posted by: medic8r

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 10:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Amie
I'm trying to get an audience with my husband to find out about the in-cabinet version. In my twenties, this was easier . . .

You mean like this?



"Yoo hoo!"
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 10:32 AM

Exactly! LOL!
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 10:53 AM

Updates! updates!

In-cabinet: shipping early next week.
Cherry/Chestnut: cut, built, and heading off to be stained shortly!
Posted by: FordPrefect

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 10:58 AM

Wow! very impressed shocked grin cool
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 11:10 AM

Originally Posted By: FordPrefect
Wow! very impressed shocked grin cool

Yes. Those ARE nice legs!
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 11:43 AM

Hmm . . . FordPrefect, don't peek:


Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 12:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
Updates! updates!

In-cabinet: shipping early next week.
Cherry/Chestnut: cut, built, and heading off to be stained shortly!


Wow. That is soon! I was expecting it to be much later. Thanks for the update!
Posted by: FordPrefect

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 12:20 PM

Oops I looked!

Can I watch it get stained?
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 12:23 PM

It's the last time I ask *you-know-who* for info!!
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 12:26 PM

I guess "you-know-who" is better than "whats-his-name".

He must be a busy man today, then.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 12:40 PM

LOL!

Yup, everyone is absolutely hopping! So exciting!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 12:47 PM

Debbie is probably hopping just to stay warm! grin
Posted by: Wid

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 12:48 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Debbie is probably hopping just to stay warm! grin


LOL.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 01:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
Hmm . . . FordPrefect, don't peek:



I think I see mine in that line up.... grin
Posted by: fredk

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 01:53 PM

And Amie's working hard to warm up the audience. Doing a good job too. I think there's drool dripping from the bottom of my monitor.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 02:10 PM

Now, if I wanted to get you drooling, I'd have posted this one . . .



wink
Posted by: FordPrefect

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 02:10 PM

I think it's time for streaming video direct from the factory.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 02:46 PM

Whimper, whimper....
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 03:47 PM

Strange, I don't see any pink ones.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 04:21 PM

grin That last one was over the top Amie. You've got poor Catbrat wimpering like a dog.
Posted by: Joe_in_SC

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 05:26 PM

Which one is mine???
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 05:50 PM

Was it this one?



So hard to say goodbye . . .
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 06:25 PM

I can't wait to say hello!
Posted by: Wid

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 06:28 PM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
I can't wait to say hello!


(hit's the *like* button)
Posted by: Joe_in_SC

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 06:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
Was it this one?



So hard to say goodbye . . .

You can rest assured that I will love it as much as you do.
Posted by: Bayne

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 07:58 PM

I know I should be excited, but my renovations aren't yet complete and so my VP160 will be sitting silent in the corner with the rest of my speakers for a month or so. Sad really. Very sad.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/25/12 09:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Wid
Originally Posted By: SBrown
I can't wait to say hello!


(hit's the *like* button)


Was this the funniest post of the day? We're on it, I promise! Tee hee!
Posted by: wolfchen

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/27/12 03:54 PM

All right, smarty pants at Axiom,
Glad to hear that my speaker is on the way. However, there's already one problem with the Axiom VP160 center speaker that I can already discern, even prior to my having received or heard it:
***If the propaganda braying is accurate, it'll mean that I may have to spend extra loot for new Axiom front or satellite speakers. Oh my God, the filthy lucre hits just keep coming!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Wid

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/27/12 03:59 PM

Originally Posted By: wolfchen
All right, smarty pants at Axiom,
Glad to hear that my speaker is on the way. However, there's already one problem with the Axiom VP160 center speaker that I can already discern, even prior to my having received or heard it:
***If the propaganda braying is accurate, it'll mean that I may have to spend extra loot for new Axiom front or satellite speakers. Oh my God, the filthy lucre hits just keep coming!!!!!!!!!



I'm going to be using one with my 8 year old M80Tis.
Posted by: FordPrefect

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/27/12 04:31 PM

Originally Posted By: wolfchen
All right, smarty pants at Axiom,
Glad to hear that my speaker is on the way. However, there's already one problem with the Axiom VP160 center speaker that I can already discern, even prior to my having received or heard it:
***If the propaganda braying is accurate, it'll mean that I may have to spend extra loot for new Axiom front or satellite speakers. Oh my God, the filthy lucre hits just keep coming!!!!!!!!!


I bought M60s to go along with them, my guilt at not spending more is overwhelming.......







....oh wait... I did.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/27/12 04:33 PM

*Happy Sigh* . . . our plan is working! LOL!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/27/12 04:35 PM

You mean you're trying to make money?!
Posted by: Amie

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/27/12 04:37 PM

We're trying to spread the good sound around! Silly!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/27/12 04:38 PM

Oh. My bad.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/27/12 04:39 PM

What? Did somebody say speakers?
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/29/12 09:59 PM

When are we going to see the mystery device? and the amps...I could use the latter for the M80's specifically.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Sneak Peak: VP160 Prototype - 01/31/12 05:37 PM

No sneak peak?