Exciting News From Axiom!

Posted by: Amie

Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 04:12 PM

At last, at last! News on the 'secret new product' and a chance to hear it – live! – at Salon Son et Image in Montreal Canada

Axiom will be exhibiting at the show in conjunction with Bryston, North America’s premier manufacturer of specialty consumer and professional electronics.

The show will be held at the Hilton Montreal Bonaventure March 23 – 25th.

But wait – there’s more! Andrew Welker has also been invited to speak on an elite panel of North America’s premier loudspeaker designers representing Axiom Audio.

So, who’s coming? It’s a quick 4 hour drive from New Hampshire, for example . . . less than two hours from Ottawa . . . 895 miles of good road from Iowa . . .

Who’s in?
Posted by: cb919

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 04:22 PM

Woohoo. You couldn't do Ottawa at the NRC? (kidding) How'd I get so lucky that it's showing in Montreal?

I am 2km from the Hilton Bonaventure as I type this. I'll just have to shift my weekly 'Montreal days' to the end of the week for this. Thanks for the update. Now, can someone explain this thing to me so I can at least appear like I know what I'm talking about for once in my life? grin

PS - If this is under 2 hours away from Ottawa, how do you still have your drivers license!?!
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 04:23 PM

Originally Posted By: cb919
Now, can someone explain this thing to me so I can at least appear like I know what I'm talking about for once in my life? grin


That would be telling! wink
Posted by: Kruncher

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 04:37 PM

C'mon Andrew... break! After all, ve haff ways off making ju talk. grin

Spill the beans.

Ian, Amie, Alan: avert your eyes.

OK Andrew - quick - nobody's looking. Now's your time to shine! Fill in the blank: The mystery product is a _________.

It's OK. We won't say a word to anyone. wink
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 04:39 PM

LOL!

It's bigger than a breadbox . . .
Posted by: Kruncher

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 04:45 PM

Hmm... I see that we'll need to ramp things up a little.

JP: get that personality profile that you've been prepping on Andrew ready to post, just in case.

Bob: I know that you're always ready to help motivate poor unsuspecting Andrew.

Grunt: you might in the best physical shape of the group. Get ready for a debreifing session.

Peter: Can bacon and beer be shipped to Andrew quickly?

Murph: Peter's beer might not be strong enough. Prep some screech.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 04:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Kruncher

OK Andrew - quick - nobody's looking. Now's your time to shine! Fill in the blank: The mystery product is a _________.

It's OK. We won't say a word to anyone. wink



The mystery product is a S-P-E-A-K-E-R. wink
Posted by: Wid

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 04:46 PM


So, Axiom and Bryston joined together to build an amp......yes Sir that's what it is smile
Posted by: alan

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 05:14 PM

I'll be there!
Here's another clue to what will be seen in the Bryston/Axiom room: it's smaller than a fridge.

Should be fun to meet and greet some Axiomites who've come North.

Cheers,

Alan
Posted by: cb919

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 05:16 PM

Well that rules out the giant EP1600 made to eat the EP800 whole!!!

I am looking forward to meeting some fellow Axiomites as well as the Axiom team! Glad to hear you'll be there Alan.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 05:18 PM

Originally Posted By: alan
I'll be there!

Should be fun to meet and greet some Axiomites who've come North.

Cheers,

Alan


ahem - or East, or West, or South!!
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 05:22 PM

Pictures or it didn't happen.
Posted by: Jc

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 05:34 PM

Allô !
Quelle bonne nouvelle . . . J'y serai !!!
Depuis le temps qu'on me demande si Axiom va être au SSI cette année . . .
"Finalement, cette année c'est OUI"

The SSI is quite an event, worth the trip ! Looking forward to see many of you ! ! !
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 06:29 PM

It can't be too big of a secret because I've read a discussion about the mystery device. At least I postulate it's regarding said device because it's all about Bryston and Axiom joining forces.

Would it be wrong to post the link? I could be hogwash after all, as it is the internet.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 06:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Powertothepeople
It can't be too big of a secret because I've read a discussion about the mystery device. At least I postulate it's regarding said device because it's all about Bryston and Axiom joining forces.

Would it be wrong to post the link? I could be hogwash after all, as it is the internet.


Ian's going to kill me...but the mystery device is 100% an Axiom development...ask me how I know. wink
It is also the heart of a new loudspeaker model.
The best is yet to come...
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 06:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Jc
Allô !
Quelle bonne nouvelle . . . J'y serai !!!
Depuis le temps qu'on me demande si Axiom va être au SSI cette année . . .
"Finalement, cette année c'est OUI"

The SSI is quite an event, worth the trip ! Looking forward to see many of you ! ! !


How does it feel to have finally won the battle? smile
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 06:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
Originally Posted By: Powertothepeople
It can't be too big of a secret because I've read a discussion about the mystery device. At least I postulate it's regarding said device because it's all about Bryston and Axiom joining forces.

Would it be wrong to post the link? I could be hogwash after all, as it is the internet.


Ian's going to kill me...but the mystery device is 100% an Axiom development...ask me how I know. wink
It is also the heart of a new loudspeaker model.
The best is yet to come...


Andrew, I read the discussion again and it talks about Axiom working with Bryston to produce a Bryston line of speakers, so I got it backwards.

My bad, sir.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 07:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Powertothepeople

Andrew, I read the discussion again and it talks about Axiom working with Bryston to produce a Bryston line of speakers, so I got it backwards.

My bad, sir.



Yes and no. wink
This is something entirely Axiom and entirely new. The project you are thinking of is something else...
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 07:08 PM

I am still very sad I missed the 30th bash, and when I read this I thought "yes" I am going to make this one.....then Karen reminded me we won't be back from Disney until the 24th...arggg
Posted by: Jc

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 07:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
Originally Posted By: Jc
Allô !
Quelle bonne nouvelle . . . J'y serai !!!
Depuis le temps qu'on me demande si Axiom va être au SSI cette année . . .
"Finalement, cette année c'est OUI"

The SSI is quite an event, worth the trip ! Looking forward to see many of you ! ! !


How does it feel to have finally won the battle? smile

Andrew,
I'm still wordless and trying to catch my breath !
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 07:59 PM

Hmmmm...Google Maps says 4 hours, twenty minutes. I might just have to look into this a bit!
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 08:31 PM

My Birthday is March 24. Do you need a passport to visit from US? I don't have one.
Posted by: casey01

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 09:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Lampshade
My Birthday is March 24. Do you need a passport to visit from US? I don't have one.


Although it would be good to have it anyway, you will need the passport primarily to get back in to the US.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 09:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Andrew

Ian's going to kill me...but the mystery device is 100% an Axiom development...ask me how I know. wink
It is also the heart of a new loudspeaker model.
The best is yet to come...


I guess I'm holding off on new M80s. Now hopefully a release date is part of the unveiling.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 10:48 PM

Originally Posted By: CV
Originally Posted By: Andrew

Ian's going to kill me...but the mystery device is 100% an Axiom development...ask me how I know. wink
It is also the heart of a new loudspeaker model.
The best is yet to come...


I guess I'm holding off on new M80s. Now hopefully a release date is part of the unveiling.


Just think of the possibilities. "Smaller than a fridge" sounds like a big cabinet to me. What can it be? Direct radiating, omni-directional, line source, modular, or none of the above...hooked up to an active dsp mystery box?
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 10:51 PM

Okay, Andrew; and from what Ian mentioned some time ago, this affects the "listening window". Since this generally means a window at small(maybe 10-15 degrees)angles left, right, up and down from on-axis, can we anticipate an Axiom with even better dispersion characteristics than at present?
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 11:07 PM

Originally Posted By: alan
I'll be there!
Here's another clue to what will be seen in the Bryston/Axiom room: it's smaller than a fridge.

How many beers could I fit inside it?
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 11:07 PM

I'm thinking sound bar with said "device"
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 11:43 PM

Eureka! Andrew designed a crossover less single driver speaker to be used with low powered tube amps! Oh happy day.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/16/12 11:51 PM

Originally Posted By: jakewash
I'm thinking sound bar with said "device"


Hmmm. Unless the device has changed, it was supposed to work with v3 M80s and VP180s, right?
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 12:07 AM

VP180 makes for one awesome sound bar.
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 12:14 AM

I went back and checked and it goes between the amp and the preamp and it was prototyped on a bread board.
Posted by: avjunkee

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 12:27 AM

An active speaker / studio monitor.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 12:38 AM

Originally Posted By: avjunkee
An active speaker / studio monitor.
Sure do some actual research.

What the heck? That wasn't who/what I quoted??? I had quoted Lampy.
Originally Posted By: Lampshade
I went back and checked and it goes between the amp and the preamp and it was prototyped on a bread board.

Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 06:54 AM

Originally Posted By: pmbuko

How many beers could I fit inside it?

I don't know, but I think Tom has..... oh, wrong straight line....
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 08:21 AM

Beer. Tom has beer.
Posted by: cb919

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 08:25 AM

But who has the bacon wrapped deer?

Mark - it's an easy drive from your neck of the woods. We have a customer in Concord and I do the drive from Montreal a couple of times each year.

Incidentally, I heard Negative Orange is performing at this event.
Posted by: FordPrefect

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 08:33 AM

Is it what I saw when I was in the anechoic chamber about a week ago? Debbie swore me to secrecy.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 08:41 AM

Dan-
I went through there on my way back from the Axiom 30th.... yeah, not a bad ride at all. My Dad is having health issues right now, and that's likely the determining factor as to whether I could or would go.

My presumptions from earlier posts is that it's something akin to the BBE Sonic Maximixer to be placed in a loop or between preamp and amp....
Posted by: avjunkee

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 09:03 AM

Originally Posted By: jakewash
Sure do some actual research.

What the heck? That wasn't who/what I quoted??? I had quoted Lampy.


confused There must be some misunderstanding here. I wasn't talking to you or even referring to anything you wrote, it was just a thought out loud. All the talk of beer and bacon must have blurred my judgment momentarily so apologies if I've offended anyone.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 09:25 AM

Nah, Jay just quoted the wrong person when he made his comment. Wasn't pointed at you.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 09:33 AM

In the blog it says a stereo and ht speaker. I'm locking my guess into a high end, active, dsp controlled omni directional speaker.
Posted by: cb919

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 09:39 AM

That's what I'm thinking too, especially based on Andrew's past development history with Mirage. I am looking forward to finding out for sure though!

Should be a fun night. A friend is coming with me who has recently started recording his own music and we have been discussing speakers quite a bit lately. It'll give me a chance to introduce him to some Axioms.
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 10:29 AM

Originally Posted By: Amie

So, who’s coming? It’s a quick 4 hour drive from New Hampshire, for example . . . less than two hours from Ottawa . . . 895 miles of good road from Iowa . . .



Maybe for SonicFox, but I am about 1080 miles. SirQuack is another 100 miles further than that...
frown
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 10:54 AM

Originally Posted By: cb919
That's what I'm thinking too, especially based on Andrew's past development history with Mirage. I am looking forward to finding out for sure though!

Should be a fun night. A friend is coming with me who has recently started recording his own music and we have been discussing speakers quite a bit lately. It'll give me a chance to introduce him to some Axioms.


Doug Schneider from over at Soundstage! still uses the Mirage OMD 28 as one of his benchmark, reference speakers for evaluating high-end speakers. Soundstage! reviews some of the most elaborate and expensive speakers out of any review site.

It's a shame that Audiovox now owns the patents to Mirages Omnipolar designs.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 12:49 PM

As a Habs fan, I just can't bring myself to visit Montreal this year. It would be way too depressing.

Unless of course, you plan on pulling an Oprah and everyone in the crowd gets one!!!!
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 12:52 PM

Saw this pop up on my RSS feed today, piqued my interest enough to come out of hiatus. Will definitely be following developments.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 12:59 PM

He lives! Wait, I knew that.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 12:59 PM

Originally Posted By: pmbuko

How many beers could I fit inside it?


Never ask an engineer questions like that!

Oh, and it's 148 euro 500mL cans or 205.5 12oz bottles, but who's counting? wink
Posted by: Murph

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 01:03 PM

Because by the time they invent the math, the liquor store is closed?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 01:05 PM

So, Andrew.....Buddy.....

I've sent a large quantity of said beer your way. What do you say, friend: after you've had a chance to taste-test a good quantity, we talk on the phone? You can tell me which beer you preferred and, my friend, we can share some secrets!??!
Posted by: Murph

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 01:25 PM

Sure thing Mark. I can't wait until they get here! Woot!
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 02:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
LOL!

It's bigger than a breadbox . . .

I can picture some pretty darn big bread boxes.


Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 02:38 PM

Originally Posted By: FordPrefect
Is it what I saw when I was in the anechoic chamber about a week ago? Debbie swore me to secrecy.


Debbie confirms you saw the back of said secret product. Shhhhh! Shhhhhh!
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 02:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
Originally Posted By: FordPrefect
Is it what I saw when I was in the anechoic chamber about a week ago? Debbie swore me to secrecy.


Debbie confirms you saw the back of said secret product. Shhhhh! Shhhhhh!

And what colour of hair did it have?
Or are we all really talking about the same thing here?

Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 02:58 PM

Just guessing here... It's some sort of tool to be used to adjust speakers better.

Or, in other works, it'll help make the speakers plangent much better.
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 03:01 PM

It's definitely a speaker, from Axiom's blog http://www.axiomaudio.com/blog/home-theater-speaker-at-show/

Quote:
Coming soon to a salon near you . . . Axiom will be demonstrating its ‘top secret’ new stereo and home theater speaker at the 25th annual Salon Son et Image in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, March 23-25th. The speaker, over 10 years in the making, is a combined effort of Axiom president and founder Ian Colquhoun, and engineer Andrew Welker.

Posted by: Adrian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 03:47 PM

Suspense!!
Posted by: alan

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 03:51 PM

. . .And it sounds light-years better than my breadbox or fridge!

Cheers,
Alan

p.s. Does anyone even have breadboxes anymore??
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 04:08 PM

For anyone interested, this is the discussion I was talking about (starting at the third post).
Posted by: avjunkee

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 04:08 PM

Originally Posted By: alan

p.s. Does anyone even have breadboxes anymore??


I do.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 04:14 PM

Originally Posted By: alan
p.s. Does anyone even have breadboxes anymore??


A loaf of bread would fit in a VP150 cabinet.....
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 04:21 PM

Originally Posted By: alan
p.s. Does anyone even have breadboxes anymore??

I keep my bread in the fridge.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 04:51 PM

I keep my meds in my bread box.
Posted by: FordPrefect

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 05:42 PM

I'm not saying a word
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 05:49 PM

Originally Posted By: FordPrefect
I'm not saying a word


You just said five.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 06:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie


The show will be held at the Hilton Montreal Bonaventure March 23 – 25th.



Amie, this may be a dumb question... But does this mean that on March 23 someone from axiom will post what the new product is on the forums for those of us who live thousands of miles away but have cash to spend can see what it is?
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 06:05 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
So, Andrew.....Buddy.....

I've sent a large quantity of said beer your way. What do you say, friend: after you've had a chance to taste-test a good quantity, we talk on the phone? You can tell me which beer you preferred and, my friend, we can share some secrets!??!


All I heard was beer...beer...beer wink
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 06:53 PM

Originally Posted By: alan
. . .And it sounds light-years better than my breadbox or fridge!

Cheers,
Alan

p.s. Does anyone even have breadboxes anymore??




You do if you have bread.
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 09:22 PM

I am just crossing my fingers that it is something in ADDITION to my M80s and not an upgrade from my M80s.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 09:30 PM

Naa. It'll make you buy all new speakers again. smile
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 09:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Lampshade
I am just crossing my fingers that it is something in ADDITION to my M80s and not an upgrade from my M80s.



I believe that they said that the new product would work in conjunction with V3 speakers...
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 09:57 PM

That was quite some time ago, when it appeared that it would possibly be a separate electronic component. It now appears that it's specifically a new speaker designed by Ian and Andrew with the new technology embedded in it. It may or may not be feasible to apply it as an add-on to earlier models.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 10:21 PM

Originally Posted By: BlueJays1

It's a shame that Audiovox now owns the patents to Mirages Omnipolar designs.

I agree. Note that they may own the patents to Mirage's designs, but there are many other omni type speakers out there too. Maybe Andrew can still design something as such, without infringing on the Mirage patents. A shame if he couldn't considering how much work he did on the OMD 15/28 ect.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 10:26 PM

Originally Posted By: JohnK
That was quite some time ago, when it appeared that it would possibly be a separate electronic component. It now appears that it's specifically a new speaker designed by Ian and Andrew with the new technology embedded in it. It may or may not be feasible to apply it as an add-on to earlier models.


I hope it is a Large 3 way speaker with a 8-12" woofer... However, i don't think that is the case...
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 10:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Adrian
Originally Posted By: BlueJays1

It's a shame that Audiovox now owns the patents to Mirages Omnipolar designs.

I agree. Note that they may own the patents to Mirage's designs, but there are many other omni type speakers out there too. Maybe Andrew can still design something as such, without infringing on the Mirage patents. A shame if he couldn't considering how much work he did on the OMD 15/28 ect.


The Omniguide would be a big one and I believe they would own the intellectual property to the term "Omnipolar". Mirage basically wrote the book on omni directional speakers. But like you said there are other omni directional speakers out there.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 10:38 PM

Fingers crossed!
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/17/12 11:50 PM

They were suppose to have amps out too?
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 12:32 AM

Originally Posted By: alan
. . .And it sounds light-years better than my breadbox or fridge!


Even if you're playing back a recording of your breadbox or fridge?
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 12:34 AM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
They were suppose to have amps out too?


I'm certainly ready to hear some news on that front.
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 01:44 AM

Well,
if there is something better than the 80s it is going to be hard to explain to my wife why I need new speakers a year later. At least they are vinyl and not real wood so the loss will be minimal,
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 02:05 AM

Hopefully someone fortunate enough to make the event will have camcorder in hand.
Posted by: FireGuy

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 08:44 AM

Axiom and Bryston's new collaboration?


Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 09:18 AM

What is that?
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 09:21 AM

Originally Posted By: Lampshade
What is that?


A rendering... wink
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 09:22 AM

This looks to be the latest version of Bryston's flagship loudspeaker that Axiom collaborated on.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=72909

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=72911

Electronic crossover

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=72712

That is a separate project than what this thread is about.


Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 09:26 AM

Originally Posted By: CV
Originally Posted By: SBrown
They were suppose to have amps out too?


I'm certainly ready to hear some news on that front.


All in due time...
While it's way too soon to go into details, I can say that 2012 promises to see us launching more new and revolutionary products than any year in recent history. Hold on to your seats kids! smile
Posted by: Ian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 11:36 AM

For now I would like to add that this new product has been just a fantastic journey in the making. Though the early beginnings go back about 10 years, it really began in earnest a few years ago when Andrew and I had the first opportunities to hang out and chat about our prior experiences and experiments. It became apparent rather quickly that our combined experiences could be put together to create a whole new direction for a speaker design. As a base we had all the experiments that we had done over the years that had netted similar results, even though they were being done in separate laboratories and without any collusion back and forth. This brought some real clarity to a plethora of elements about speaker design. Of course a lot of these experiments were pretty mainstream anyway so similar results would be expected but there were also quite a number that were not. Added to this we had the experiments we had done that were in totally different directions. Here we had the opportunity to collaborate and develop new experiments.

I guess if I had to boil it down to the two most prominent and broad categories that we were collaborating on it would be the utilization of DSPs and the utilization of omni-directional design. These two main foundations, plus a multitude of other ideas and experiences, could now be used to carve out some totally new territory. As with all things Axiom this new direction had to ultimately prove itself out in Double Blind Listen Testing. For Andrew the Double Blind Test was nothing new since it was very much in keeping with the methodology followed at API. I guess given the early roots of both Axiom and API at the NRC this is not surprising.

So after all these years we are now just about ready to unveil the first product of this research. I might add that along with our new speaker model will be the ability to juice the performance of some of our existing models. From a timing point of view we are currently building the prototypes for the show and should be done sometime in the next few weeks. It is our plan to take a pile of photos and post them here when those samples are completed. I think once we have this visual would be a sensible time to start going over the details.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 12:16 PM

This speakers sound like it will be amazing, very exciting, very...high end.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 12:20 PM

Maybe the electronics in the speaker are calculating what the ideal reflected sound would be if the speaker was an omni-directional design, but simply shooting that calculated sound forward in the more traditional forward-facing design?
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 12:21 PM

Originally Posted By: BlueJays1
This speakers sound like it will be amazing, very exciting, very...high end.



Yeah, I hope I can afford it!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 12:49 PM

Originally Posted By: FireGuy
Axiom and Bryston's new collaboration?



i have been bugging Ian to build something like this for a couple of years now, if this is what it is, i should get some royalties or something.... maybe some canadian beer...?
Posted by: avjunkee

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 01:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Ian
I guess if I had to boil it down to the two most prominent and broad categories that we were collaborating on it would be the utilization of DSPs and the utilization of omni-directional design. These two main foundations, plus a multitude of other ideas and experiences, could now be used to carve out some totally new territory. As with all things Axiom this new direction had to ultimately prove itself out in Double Blind Listen Testing. For Andrew the Double Blind Test was nothing new since it was very much in keeping with the methodology followed at API. I guess given the early roots of both Axiom and API at the NRC this is not surprising.

So after all these years we are now just about ready to unveil the first product of this research. I might add that along with our new speaker model will be the ability to juice the performance of some of our existing models. From a timing point of view we are currently building the prototypes for the show and should be done sometime in the next few weeks. It is our plan to take a pile of photos and post them here when those samples are completed. I think once we have this visual would be a sensible time to start going over the details.


Exciting times indeed smile.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 03:12 PM

Probably won't work in my living room (limited wall space). I'm thinking tower speakers with some Bose 901 qualities. This would help give a good wall of sound effect, with only 1 set of speakers, perhaps.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 06:21 PM

Originally Posted By: CV
Maybe the electronics in the speaker are calculating what the ideal reflected sound would be if the speaker was an omni-directional design, but simply shooting that calculated sound forward in the more traditional forward-facing design?


I don't know how clear I am in stating what I mean, or how feasible it is. Based on the hints, I'm thinking that it might be simulating reflected sound. As Ian says, the two prominent, broad categories driving the new design are DSP+omni-directional, but he also states that there's the potential to "juice" the performance of existing models. Since none of the Axiom line-up is omni-directional, it makes me think perhaps they're achieving a likeness of that sound with a direct radiating speaker. If it's convincing, it might be superior to other omni-directional designs simply from an ease-of-placement standpoint. It seems like placement of omni-directional speakers is even trickier than placement of direct radiating, at least from the admittedly limited reading I've done. It seems like some of those speakers really like being placed further into the room, away from the walls.

Anyway, that's my best guess, but there's a lot that's open to interpretation. I'm still vague on what the references to "listening window" might mean, so I don't know if what I'm saying speaks to that at all.

It's going to be fun finding out further details. I just wonder if the new speakers are going to have their own internal amplifiers. It might take away from dedicated amplifier sales once Axiom is offering a new version of their amp, but I guess if people buy powered speakers from Axiom, they're still buying Axiom amps. It just seems like there'd be some benefit to being able to tailor the DSP's code to both the exact performance characters of the speaker as well as the amplifier supplying the power. Again, my ignorance rears its head.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 06:31 PM

Ian, i have a single request.... Outriggers please!.... maybe this will be part of the 2012 lineup of new products???!..... ? I would buy a pair for sure...
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 06:33 PM

Originally Posted By: CatBrat
Probably won't work in my living room (limited wall space). I'm thinking tower speakers with some Bose 901 qualities. This would help give a good wall of sound effect, with only 1 set of speakers, perhaps.


We have all seen how creative/effective you are at cutting holes in your wall. i am confident that you are good enough at geometry that you would be able to fit just about anything on that wall.........
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 09:25 PM

Dr. Horse, hopefully they won't be "high end", which is pretty synonymous with "high priced", and knowing Axiom, I think that we can have a fair degree of confidence.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 10:26 PM

Originally Posted By: CV
Originally Posted By: CV
Maybe the electronics in the speaker are calculating what the ideal reflected sound would be if the speaker was an omni-directional design, but simply shooting that calculated sound forward in the more traditional forward-facing design?


I don't know how clear I am in stating what I mean, or how feasible it is. Based on the hints, I'm thinking that it might be simulating reflected sound. As Ian says, the two prominent, broad categories driving the new design are DSP+omni-directional, but he also states that there's the potential to "juice" the performance of existing models. Since none of the Axiom line-up is omni-directional, it makes me think perhaps they're achieving a likeness of that sound with a direct radiating speaker. If it's convincing, it might be superior to other omni-directional designs simply from an ease-of-placement standpoint. It seems like placement of omni-directional speakers is even trickier than placement of direct radiating, at least from the admittedly limited reading I've done. It seems like some of those speakers really like being placed further into the room, away from the walls.

Anyway, that's my best guess, but there's a lot that's open to interpretation. I'm still vague on what the references to "listening window" might mean, so I don't know if what I'm saying speaks to that at all.

It's going to be fun finding out further details. I just wonder if the new speakers are going to have their own internal amplifiers. It might take away from dedicated amplifier sales once Axiom is offering a new version of their amp, but I guess if people buy powered speakers from Axiom, they're still buying Axiom amps. It just seems like there'd be some benefit to being able to tailor the DSP's code to both the exact performance characters of the speaker as well as the amplifier supplying the power. Again, my ignorance rears its head.


It was mentioned before that the listening window in reference to the mystery box goes beyond the standard definition AVG (-+15° vertical,-+15°or -+30° horizontal). I'm thinking it might encompass more of the power response.

If you go with an active option instead of an internal amp approach you can match specifically the power capabilities to each individual driver in the speaker. This is the approach the Bryston speaker is taking. That speaker will have massive power handling and dynamic capabilities.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 11:19 PM

Originally Posted By: BlueJays1


If you go with an active option instead of an internal amp approach you can match specifically the power capabilities to each individual driver in the speaker. This is the approach the Bryston speaker is taking. That speaker will have massive power handling and dynamic capabilities.


Wouldn't this require a dedicated amp channel to go with each type of speaker like Bryston is doing? I think that this would not work with Axioms target demographic?
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/18/12 11:38 PM

Yes, an amp channel dedicated to each driver. With the active crossover you can also make adjustments on the fly. For that Bryston speaker, that approach is going to be beneficial IMO. Those speakers will just sing.

It is definitely for a specific demographic. However you can still make that speaker with a passive crossover and use a single amp to power it.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/19/12 12:01 PM

Aw-shit.... I just ordered new speakers. I don't even have them yet, and it's already time to upgrade them.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/19/12 03:07 PM

Originally Posted By: michael_d
Aw-shit.... I just ordered new speakers. I don't even have them yet, and it's already time to upgrade them.


did you order a custom/non-returnable finish?
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/19/12 09:37 PM

Surprising that there's been no speculation on the reason that the base was placed(apparently purposefully)beside what Andrew termed the "rendering". Does this possibly indicate a port and/or driver on the bottom? Note also that some speakers(including Axiom in the past)have one or more drivers on the back of the enclosure.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/20/12 11:14 AM

Perhaps over simplistic, but I'm thinking a new speaker with an omni-directional tweeter jutting out of the top. It can be purchased separately for other speakers models.

It will be followed by the exact opposite design with a long, tubular, tweeter horn that points only at the sweetspot and plays nothing except the words "Exterminate, Exterminate!"
Posted by: JBall

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/20/12 02:10 PM

MMm a new powered tower with some pretty sexy looking bass drivers in them. Can't wait to hear more!
Posted by: Jc

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/20/12 04:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Ian
For now I would like to add that this new product has been just a fantastic journey in the making. Though the early beginnings go back about 10 years . . .
______________________
Ian Colquhoun President & Chief Engineer

Ian,
I clearly remember my first participation to an Axiom Audio Expert meeting back in 2003, there was already an early prototype of the new flagship tower speaker in the conference room. At the time, you had given me a few details on it. At almost every subsequent meeting I would bug you for updates.

You had demanding specs and very high expectations for it. I'm pretty sure that the physical shape, size and other components of the final version differ substantially of what you were imagining for its look back then. It certainly not as tall as the early prototype was.

How time flies when you are having fun . . .
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/20/12 06:38 PM

Gotta love the teasing......hmmmm,M80's as wide speakers now. The wife is going to freak! Why did I ever find this place.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/20/12 06:44 PM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
Gotta love the teasing......hmmmm,M80's as wide speakers now. The wife is going to freak! Why did I ever find this place.


start bringing roses and boxes of chocolates home. When she asks just tell her it's because you love her so much... translated ( i hope you dont kick my A$$ when the boxes show up)
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/20/12 06:49 PM

Or.... dig a deep hole in the back yard.

When she asks what that's for, tell her it's going to be my new home after the new speakers arrive.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/20/12 07:12 PM

She would probably move out if I bought two EP800's, no wonder Charles is single. laugh
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/20/12 09:10 PM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
She would probably move out if I bought two EP800's


A lot of men try everything possible to subtly achieve that objective. And then there's some - ::Fred:: - that have dug a deep hole in the backyard.

Consider yourself a lucky man that it would only take you two EP800'S smile.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/20/12 09:49 PM

In reality, it would probably only take one.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/20/12 10:08 PM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
In reality, it would probably only take one.


smile
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/21/12 02:10 AM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
She would probably move out if I bought two EP800's, no wonder Charles is single. laugh


I swear I have a lot of other qualities that are way worse.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/21/12 02:39 AM

Awww maaaan! I dissapear for a few days and you guys go on a posting blitz. New products, bacon wrapped beer bribary. You guys did this on purpose didn't you!
Posted by: FordPrefect

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/21/12 11:24 AM

Now things are becoming a bit clearer.

When I saw this on February 7th my first thought was "OMG what on earth are all ***** ****** for? Well I think this is going to be a watershed moment for Axiom. Simply amazing.
Posted by: avjunkee

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/21/12 02:47 PM

You're not helping with the teasing.
Posted by: Rock_Head

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/21/12 03:17 PM

I have always wanted M80's. Now I am glad that I waited grin
Posted by: FordPrefect

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/21/12 03:40 PM

the truck is very cool too
Posted by: solarrdadd

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/21/12 07:43 PM

Hey, i created a thread about this very subject matter last year. Only the bosses Lovely Wife could get away with stealing my thunder!

Ian you even posted on it; since your not as pretty as your wife, I'm taking my pain out on you! blush laugh i demand to get a test sample sent to VA for my pain and suffering! wink

I expect to get my tracking information via email as soon as "it's" ready and you send it out! whistle grin
Posted by: Tanooki

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/21/12 09:48 PM

Just wondering if the new speakers are going to be available shortly after they are announced in march or if they will still be a while. I'm just a few clicks away from ordering the Epic 80 - 500 - 180 and just wondering if I should even bother waiting for these since I plan to finish my HT in March.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/22/12 02:04 AM

Yeah, I sure hope the release isn't too long afterward. I have someone interested in my M80s. A friend, so I'd give him a really good deal. I was originally going to pass them on to my dad, but I don't think he cares as much about home theater these days, and I think he may be better served by M22s, anyway.

Can't wait to have a nice audio upgrade.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/22/12 02:29 PM

Posted by JC over on Blu-ray.com:

Originally Posted By: jcb
Hi Tanooki,

The new flagship model is not part of a Home Theatre package; it is for stereo - audiophile crowd. It has no matching center and surround speakers yet and none plan for the moment. One pair of the new flagship tower speaker model will be substantially more expensive than the current M80v3.


I guess I can still save for M80s in my main home theater, then see about the new speakers for a 2.1 system. Hmmm.
Posted by: casey01

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/22/12 04:39 PM

Hmm, assuming this new speaker model has been designed in conjunction with Bryston, it would probably be safe to say that the selling price is going to be "just a little bit more" than a pair of M80s.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/22/12 04:48 PM

Originally Posted By: casey01
Hmm, assuming this new speaker model has been designed in conjunction with Bryston, it would probably be safe to say that the selling price is going to be "just a little bit more" than a pair of M80s.


As it was stated earlier the Bryston speaker is a separate project than the new Axiom speaker. Based on the latest version (renderings?) of the Bryston speaker and what has been explained about the Axiom speaker, they seem to be quite distinct from one another.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/22/12 07:53 PM

As they said ,it's ten years or more in the making, and the Bryston is recent.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/22/12 08:40 PM

The two are separate projects and not related in any way, except for some of the concepts that underpin the designs.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/22/12 09:00 PM

Andrew. I'm not digging for information or anything....but let's say I was interested in purchasing a pair of Mirage OMD-28's, hypothetically speaking of course...would there be any other similar speakers that I should also have a look at ?
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/22/12 09:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Adrian
Andrew. I'm not digging for information or anything....but let's say I was interested in purchasing a pair of Mirage OMD-28's, hypothetically speaking of course...would there be any other similar speakers that I should also have a look at ?


grin

Originally Posted By: Ian
I guess if I had to boil it down to the two most prominent and broad categories that we were collaborating on it would be the utilization of DSPs and the utilization of omni-directional design. These two main foundations, plus a multitude of other ideas and experiences, could now be used to carve out some totally new territory.

Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/22/12 10:33 PM

I wonder how many e-mails/phone calls a day Ian/Andrew/JC/Brent are getting


"hey, um... I was wondering about this new speaker thing...."


i bet they are getting quite a few......

I have to admit i may/may not have called myself....
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/23/12 03:07 AM

Originally Posted By: CV
Posted by JC over on Blu-ray.com:

Originally Posted By: jcb
Hi Tanooki,

The new flagship model is not part of a Home Theatre package; it is for stereo - audiophile crowd. It has no matching center and surround speakers yet and none plan for the moment. One pair of the new flagship tower speaker model will be substantially more expensive than the current M80v3.


I guess I can still save for M80s in my main home theater, then see about the new speakers for a 2.1 system. Hmmm.

Did someone say audiopyle? Are they serialized? The first pair should be reserved for Bbigwyres; maybe with a commemorative roll of duct tape.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/23/12 02:39 PM

JC, you say there's no matching center or surrounds at this point, but could I use more of the new flagship as the center and surrounds? Have any of the listening tests utilized this configuration?
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/23/12 02:56 PM

Originally Posted By: CV
JC, you say there's no matching center or surrounds at this point, but could I use more of the new flagship as the center and surrounds? Have any of the listening tests utilized this configuration?


Since they are a floorstander, I'm thinking they will dwarf the M80's size wise (taller/wider). Since they are designed to be the main speakers, I'm sure there would be no problems using the same speaker as the centre and surrounds in a full fledged 5 or 7 speaker home theater setup. You will just need the real estate and perhaps a proper amplifier to power them all...
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/23/12 04:01 PM

And money. Lots and lots of money.
Posted by: Philippe

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/23/12 04:10 PM

I just receive the newsletter from Axiom and i am exited to see Axiom at Salon Son et Image. That will be nice to hear people impression and expert review Axiom after the show. I will definitly spare some time over there and finally meet Axiom crew !! smile

Philippe.
Posted by: Ian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/23/12 04:27 PM

Because there are drivers on the front and the rear of the new speaker they are certainly best suited to the front mains. The VP180 would be the most appropriate centre channel. In order to get the kind of distinct control we needed over the rear driver information they do require 4 channels of amplification for the pair. We will be addressing this need also. It is certainly shaping up to be a big year for new products!
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/23/12 04:51 PM

Ooooh! Aaaaah!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/23/12 05:03 PM

Originally Posted By: FordPrefect
Now things are becoming a bit clearer.

When I saw this on February 7th my first thought was "OMG what on earth are all ***** ****** for? Well I think this is going to be a watershed moment for Axiom. Simply amazing.


i guess Ian just explained what the **** ***** is, maybe "freaking amps"?

Originally Posted By: Ian
In order to get the kind of distinct control we needed over the rear driver information they do require 4 channels of amplification for the pair. We will be addressing this need also. It is certainly shaping up to be a big year for new products!


Ian, will you be implementing a similar cross over design as the one James is using, an outboard DSP cross over, so that any brand of amp can be used to power the new speakers? If i need to wait until next month for my answer, i can understand that and will wait.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/23/12 08:42 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon

Ian, will you be implementing a similar cross over design as the one James is using, an outboard DSP cross over, so that any brand of amp can be used to power the new speakers? If i need to wait until next month for my answer, i can understand that and will wait.


I'll answer part of your question on Ian's behalf:
Yes, any amp(s) can be used. You will need 4 channels that have identical gain, preferably identical amplifiers. It's this requirement that is part of the "magic" that's going on here. wink
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/23/12 08:47 PM

Ok, I asked James the same question, with either option i will only need 1 more amp. With the Axiom design, i would only need another 2 channel amp.. and my 3 channel can still power the center/surrounds...


How much power would be a good place to be?

My current amps are 250W@8 ohm/ 500W @4ohm
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/23/12 09:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
Yes, any amp(s) can be used. You will need 4 channels that have identical gain, preferably identical amplifiers. It's this requirement that is part of the "magic" that's going on here. wink

Can I use four T-amps?


(Asked semi-facetiously.)
Posted by: avjunkee

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/23/12 10:22 PM

Wow, new speakers and new amps! Any guess as to whether or not the amps will be unveiled in March as well?
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/23/12 10:31 PM

I bet it will be a simultaneous rollout.
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/23/12 10:46 PM

Well, I feel better now. I think the new speakers will be way out of my league.
Posted by: JBall

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/23/12 11:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Ian
Because there are drivers on the front and the rear of the new speaker they are certainly best suited to the front mains. The VP180 would be the most appropriate centre channel. In order to get the kind of distinct control we needed over the rear driver information they do require 4 channels of amplification for the pair. We will be addressing this need also. It is certainly shaping up to be a big year for new products!


Cool so they are biampable? Does this mean the bass units can be connected in mono as a pair of subs to the lfe channel of the processor?
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/24/12 12:08 AM

JB, "biampable" probably isn't the most relevant term. As I mentioned previously here , some speakers have had drivers also on the back, making in effect almost two complete speaker assemblies in one enclosure, situated back-to-back, to achieve a more nearly omni-directional output. If so, it isn't a matter simply of a bass driver being amplified separately, but rather that the back drivers are being fed a different electronically processed signal rather than the "normal" one going to the front drivers. This would require a different amplifier channel(not necessarily an entire different amplifier)than the one powering the fronts.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/24/12 01:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Ian
Because there are drivers on the front and the rear of the new speaker they are certainly best suited to the front mains. The VP180 would be the most appropriate centre channel.


Good to know. At least that gives me some confidence in purchasing a VP180. I'll be curious to see the driver arrangement for the rear of the new speaker. I vaguely remember saying how I hoped Axiom would pursue a design along the lines of the Linkwitz Lab Orion, but wow have the Orions gotten expensive. I sure hope the new Axioms are a fraction of the price. I'd spend "significantly more" than the cost of the M80s, but anything over twice as much would make it a harder sell. I really hope I'll be able to afford them. They sound very promising so far.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/24/12 10:40 AM

Somehow I've missed this entire thread until now!

Sounds awesome. I'm excited to see the new products.

I have no intention of upgrading my sound system at this time, but am always glad to see new offerings from axiom.

Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/27/12 02:58 AM

I'm curious if they'll use existing drivers or have new ones for the new flagship. I'm also wondering if they'll have new uses for the injection molding machine they bought a while back.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/27/12 09:24 AM

The "Injection Molding Machine" was actually an erroneous purchase made by Ian right after he had that glass of PEI shine and then suddenly had a great idea to start a boob job clinic.

Luckily, the equipment wasn't what he thought it was and it can still be used for speaker parts creation.
Posted by: FordPrefect

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 02/27/12 11:50 AM

nooo...it's all about the truck. cool
Posted by: cb919

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/03/12 07:51 AM

Well crappy! I just had a work trip scheduled this week and will be in Utah instead of Montreal for the audio show. Someone else please make sure to take pics and post impressions. Guess I'll have to plan an Axiom factory tour this year instead. Makes for a good motorcycle trip anyway. Enjoy the show everyone else who gets to go! mad
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/03/12 07:54 AM

I'm unsure if I'm going to be able to go or not. Anyone else going to enable a meetup?
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/03/12 01:19 PM

I only go to Axiom meetups where Jack will be present.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/03/12 05:25 PM

I wish it were a little closer. Between production Saturdays (pretty much every one right now) and afternoon shift, there is no way for me to make it.

I'm also thinking summer road trip to Axiom. Maybe us 'locals' can organize a group visit some time this summer?
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/03/12 07:11 PM

Originally Posted By: pmbuko
I only go to Axiom meetups where Jack will be present.

I'm rarely "present," even when I'm there. crazy
Posted by: FireGuy

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/03/12 10:07 PM

Fredk - Count me in for another Axiom road trip this summer. The 30th anniversary was a blast and would look forward to another visit.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/03/12 11:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Ajax
I'm rarely "present," even when I'm there. crazy

You're right, of course. I should have said 'gift'.
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/04/12 12:33 AM

Originally Posted By: pmbuko
Originally Posted By: Ajax
I'm rarely "present," even when I'm there. crazy

You're right, of course. I should have said 'gift'.

Well no one has ever considered me a gift, that's for sure.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/04/12 12:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Ajax
Well no one has ever considered me a gift, that's for sure.


You can be both Ajax AND the Trojan Horse, can't you?
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/04/12 12:53 AM

Only because we're men and conditioned not to entertain such notions.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/04/12 12:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Ajax
Originally Posted By: pmbuko
Originally Posted By: Ajax
I'm rarely "present," even when I'm there. crazy

You're right, of course. I should have said 'gift'.

Well no one has ever considered me a gift, that's for sure.


Jack, has to be you're approach. Have you considered adding ribbons and bows to your giftwrapped body instead of the usual naked one? It really helped me after I turned 50.
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/04/12 03:04 PM

Excellent idea, Bob. Do you think glitter would be overkill?
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/04/12 03:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Ajax
Excellent idea, Bob. Do you think glitter would be overkill?


Um, glitter on the giftwrap, or glitter on your naked self? I think there's an actual word for that now (bedazzling), but it's made for vajayjay adornment. So, yes, it would constitute overkill, either way.

I may not know you well, Jack, but I have a strong feeling you have been a gift to many more people than you know. Just 'cause you're non-exhangable, non-refundable and un-warranteed shouldn't diminsh the value.
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/05/12 01:13 AM

LOL! Thank you for the kind words, Bob. I can only hope there is some truth to them.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/08/12 12:27 AM

Originally Posted By: Ian
From a timing point of view we are currently building the prototypes for the show and should be done sometime in the next few weeks. It is our plan to take a pile of photos and post them here when those samples are completed. I think once we have this visual would be a sensible time to start going over the details.


Do you guys have any pictures yet?
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/08/12 08:52 PM

The show pair was being prepped for the finishing booth today. smile
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/08/12 08:56 PM

Tease!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/08/12 09:01 PM

Thanks for the dose of salt Andrew......
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/08/12 10:18 PM

I doubt they are going to show any pictures until the show.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/08/12 11:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
The show pair was being prepped for the finishing booth today. smile


What finish did you put on those babes? OK, maybe I'm being to nosey.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/08/12 11:57 PM

Originally Posted By: SirQuack
I doubt they are going to show any pictures until the show.

Maybe they can strap bulky padding to it -- like some car makers do to unreleased car models that might be photographed in public -- and then take some pictures.
Posted by: Ian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/09/12 05:57 AM

SBrown,

We have one pair in Walnut Natural Satin and another pair in Rosewood Natural Satin. If all goes according to plan we will have pictures by Tuesday morning, and we will post them here as soon as we have them.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/09/12 06:24 AM

Awesome!

Then, do you "nick" a corner on one of them, and put it on the auction site as B Stock? smile
Posted by: FordPrefect

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/09/12 08:38 AM

I wonder if you can still see where I carved my initials into them?
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/09/12 09:44 AM

Thanks Ian....ooohhh Rosewood. cool
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/09/12 11:47 AM

If you have any leftover prototypes you need to get rid of, let me know.

Thank you, Ian.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/09/12 04:19 PM

I live closer than Tom does, Ian. Shipping will be cheaper.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/09/12 04:37 PM


I'll PAY shipping smile
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/09/12 04:59 PM

Thanks Rick! grin
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/09/12 05:39 PM

Wow! that's great, Adrian! I'm surprised that Rick is going to be so incredibly generous!
Posted by: Wid

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/09/12 10:37 PM


You're welcome LOL.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/10/12 12:11 AM

Accepting prototypes here too!
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/10/12 12:32 AM

I'm thinking I should set up a payment plan right now so I can have a pair paid off when they're finally released.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/10/12 01:38 AM

Originally Posted By: CV
I'm thinking I should set up a payment plan right now so I can have a pair paid off when they're finally released.


CV, no need for that....... There is a reason "they" invented Visa, and Mastercard and Discover....
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/10/12 06:03 PM

Ian, you can sell me the proto's or the production model's..........because the wife gave me the go ahead for these! Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Rosewood here I come, whoohoo!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/10/12 08:56 PM

SBrown, what amplifiers are you going to use? Or, have you decided yet?
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/10/12 09:54 PM

I hope my Outlaw mono's , to which I may have to get a couple more. smile
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/10/12 10:44 PM

I'm waiting to see what will be recommended for the new speakers as far as amplification goes... I will need at least 1 more 2 channel, but i dont know what kind of power to buy.... I guess that there are a decent amount of of waiting on Ian's exposé on the new speakers.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/11/12 12:25 PM

Originally Posted By: CV
I'm thinking I should set up a payment plan right now so I can have a pair paid off when they're finally released.


That's great, CV, but will you have enough money left over for the new speakers?
Posted by: Ian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/11/12 03:18 PM

SBrown,

This is very exciting news! The pictures we should have by Tuesday are in Rosewood Natural Satin. We decided to go with Rosewood for the show. It is just such a striking finish. There will be a number of parts on the show samples which are mocked up. The grilles for sure, as the tools for those will take Jeff and Geza well over a month to make. Also some of the chassis parts for the DSP box we will have to mock up out of some sheet aluminium along with the outriggers. Debbie has already hand populated the DSP boards, no small feat, and the crossover boards. This model requires dual DSP boards, one for the front drivers and one for the rear. And of course there is not any proper pack or carton yet.

It looks like you could end up with Serial # 1R and 1L.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/11/12 04:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Ian
SBrown,
And of course there is not any proper pack or carton yet.

It looks like you could end up with Serial # 1R and 1L.


Ian, just use a WHOLE bunch of bubble wrap... smile


How about outriggers for the M60's/M80's?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/11/12 05:06 PM

Don't use bubble wrap. wink
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/11/12 05:17 PM

Ken, what's the fun in being able to simply pull your speaker out of the box and use it right away.... There is not much work involved... Or anticipation... having to unwrap 5 or 6 layers of bubble wrap... Now, that's anticipation!!!.....


On a side note, one of my amps was shipped in bubble wrap.. It was a 50lb amp, wrapped in about 4 layers of bubble wrap... came to me perfectly safe...
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/11/12 05:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Ian
SBrown,

This is very exciting news! The pictures we should have by Tuesday are in Rosewood Natural Satin. We decided to go with Rosewood for the show. It is just such a striking finish. There will be a number of parts on the show samples which are mocked up. The grilles for sure, as the tools for those will take Jeff and Geza well over a month to make. Also some of the chassis parts for the DSP box we will have to mock up out of some sheet aluminium along with the outriggers. Debbie has already hand populated the DSP boards, no small feat, and the crossover boards. This model requires dual DSP boards, one for the front drivers and one for the rear. And of course there is not any proper pack or carton yet.

It looks like you could end up with Serial # 1R and 1L.


Agreed, it is all very exciting! smile
Sorry to disappoint those with an eye on the show pair, but those will be heading over to casa Welker after the show for final evaluation. However, as Ian rightly points out, the first pairs are technically pre-production versions. The final units will have all of the "correct" parts and the DSP chassis finish will be to a higher standard. Oh, and Ian, those crossover boards were assembled by my own two hands! Crossovers I have no problems with, the surface mount parts on the DSP boards are another story. wink
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/11/12 05:48 PM

Yeah, I'm ready to start making payments as soon as the preorder information comes out. Can't wait!
Posted by: grunt

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/11/12 06:30 PM

This is looking like a thread from the now defunct AV123 site, just an observation. wink
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/11/12 06:56 PM

Originally Posted By: grunt
This is looking like a thread from the now defunct AV123 site, just an observation. wink



How so?
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/11/12 07:15 PM

Originally Posted By: grunt
This is looking like a thread from the now defunct AV123 site, just an observation. wink



Their threads spanned several hundred pages of rabid nonsense about a product that was literally conceived on a napkin. It would end with customers ponying up for said product before even an actual prototype was engineered, let alone sourcing for the parts, manufacturing of cabinets ect on a mass scale. I don't quite see the connection here.


Posted by: Kruncher

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/11/12 07:20 PM

I think that grunt was reflecting upon how this discussion is quite similar in nature to many of the threads in the AV123 forum about how customers/fans were often ravenously awaiting new products, which in that particular case, were often promised and (almost) never delivered, despite how much hoopla and even customer deposits, were received.

That said, we know that this type of stuff will never occur here, and nobody, I'm sure, intended to paint Ian & Co. with the same brush, nor even infer as much.

The closest that we get to that around here is having a guy named Mark, but he's not Shifty. grin
Posted by: grunt

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/11/12 07:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Kruncher
I think that grunt was reflecting upon how this discussion is quite similar in nature to many of the threads in the AV123 forum about how customers/fans were often ravenously awaiting new products, which in that particular case, were often promised and (almost) never delivered, despite how much hoopla and even customer deposits, were received.

That said, we know that this type of stuff will never occur here, and nobody, I'm sure, intended to paint Ian & Co. with the same brush, nor even infer as much.

The closest that we get to that around here is having a guy named Mark, but he's not Shifty. grin



You got it!

It’s fanboyism (IMO another way of saying groupthink) I despise even if a lighter version than that based on napkin plans.

I hope Axiom succeeds in this venture but I’ll reserve judgment until I read some independent reviews.

I have a special sensitivity to it here after the lashing I used to receive from some for daring to suggest that the VP150 couldn't keep up with my M80s and look what happened when the VP180 came out. . . .

Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/11/12 07:39 PM

Originally Posted By: grunt
[quote=Kruncher]
I have a special sensitivity to it here after the lashing I used to receive from some for daring to suggest that the VP150 couldn't keep up with my M80s and look what happened when the VP180 came out. . . .


I had said the 150 was undersized for years... I dont distinctly remember people jumping on me, not to say that it didn't happen to you...

Right now, i am excited to see the new product... However, i am not sure that i will be a buyer. I think excitement around a new product is normal, and expected. I think the vast majority of people on the forum have had a good experience with this company, and would not hesitate to buy a future product from them... I personally never went to the AV123 forum, as i never bought any of their products... It is unfortunate for someone to string people along, and take their money and never deliver a product.. In many ways that type of activity tarnishes the entire industry...
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/11/12 07:43 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon

It is unfortunate for someone to string people along, and take their money and never deliver a product


The sad thing is that was only the beginning...he was indicted/charged and found guilty on a charity scam that defrauded over 700 of his own customers through his web forum.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/11/12 09:47 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
Originally Posted By: grunt
[quote=Kruncher]
I have a special sensitivity to it here after the lashing I used to receive from some for daring to suggest that the VP150 couldn't keep up with my M80s and look what happened when the VP180 came out. . . .


I had said the 150 was undersized for years... I dont distinctly remember people jumping on me, not to say that it didn't happen to you...

Yeah, but you don't wear a leather helmet and look like a wildman.

Dean, you may have been jumped on by the over-protective, but speaking plainly has gained you a lot of credibility with many on this forum.

edit: That said, we may be fans, but it is not based on fluff. Axiom has proven several times over that it is able to deal with adversity in a timely and professional manner. What goes on in this thread if bubbling over with enthusiasm, but it is not the worship that went on at AV123.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/11/12 11:14 PM

Still no photos!?!?!? wink
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/11/12 11:18 PM

Originally Posted By: grunt
It’s fanboyism (IMO another way of saying groupthink) I despise even if a lighter version than that based on napkin plans.


It's true that I'm jumping the gun and basing my excitement for new Axiom products on experiences with products they currently offer. Only time will tell whether the excitement was warranted. I admire your level-headedness, Dean. I'll probably continue to get over-excited by the possibilities in new upgrades.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/11/12 11:26 PM

I was very excited when the VP160 was first announced and luckily my enthusiasm was verified by a terrific product, hopefully Axiom continues this proof of product in this venture.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/11/12 11:40 PM

Jeesh... some people know how to burst the bubble wrap!

Sounds good Ian, keep in touch...as I am very serious about my decision.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/11/12 11:45 PM

As Kruncher aptly noted I was not making a one for one comparison. To me things like irrational exuberance fall on a scale making for a difference in degree and not kind, this is the social scientist in me where I prefer not to see differences as discrete but rather falling on a continuum which is the basis of my comparison.

The way I look at it is if I were to decide to upgrade my mains or whole system for that matter (can’t imagine why I would unless I won the lottery and then I’d upgrade my house (read room) first) I would revisit all potential speakers that focus on neutral presentation. So say if the new Axioms came in at the same price as the B&Ws I though sounded better than the M80s (but not 3 times better) then I would also consider the B&Ws as viable upgrades. To do otherwise out of brand loyalty would not make any sense to me.

OTOH if I was shopping for my speakers for the first time like before when I chose Axiom and the new Axioms sounded just as good as those B&Ws and cost the same then I’d still buy the M80s and . . . because IMO the new Axioms wouldn’t be any better value than the B&Ws were. I just don’t see the sense in paying a much greater sum for something that is incrementally better than what I could get for much less. In short the opportunity cost for higher end speakers is just too much for me to rationalize.






Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 12:14 AM

Originally Posted By: grunt
The way I look at it is if I were to decide to upgrade my mains or whole system for that matter (can’t imagine why I would unless I won the lottery and then I’d upgrade my house (read room) first) I would revisit all potential speakers that focus on neutral presentation. So say if the new Axioms came in at the same price as the B&Ws I though sounded better than the M80s (but not 3 times better) then I would also consider the B&Ws as viable upgrades. To do otherwise out of brand loyalty would not make any sense to me.


Very good points, but I'll say that brand loyalty does make some sense. If you have a history of being taken care of by the company, that's value, too. Also, if I'm only upgrading mains, sticking with the same brand for timbre matching to the rest of the surround system is something else to consider. Of course, we don't yet know how well they match the current lineup and have only been told that the VP180 would be the most appropriate center to match with the new flagships. You're right that I should still look at speakers from other manufacturers in the same price range, whatever that ends up being. I still think there are compelling reasons to stick with the same brand, but I would still expect the new speakers to outperform the M80s by a fair margin, or why keep them.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 12:44 AM

Originally Posted By: CV
Originally Posted By: grunt
The way I look at it is if I were to decide to upgrade my mains or whole system for that matter (can’t imagine why I would unless I won the lottery and then I’d upgrade my house (read room) first) I would revisit all potential speakers that focus on neutral presentation. So say if the new Axioms came in at the same price as the B&Ws I though sounded better than the M80s (but not 3 times better) then I would also consider the B&Ws as viable upgrades. To do otherwise out of brand loyalty would not make any sense to me.


Very good points, but I'll say that brand loyalty does make some sense. If you have a history of being taken care of by the company, that's value, too. Also, if I'm only upgrading mains, sticking with the same brand for timbre matching to the rest of the surround system is something else to consider. Of course, we don't yet know how well they match the current lineup and have only been told that the VP180 would be the most appropriate center to match with the new flagships. You're right that I should still look at speakers from other manufacturers in the same price range, whatever that ends up being. I still think there are compelling reasons to stick with the same brand, but I would still expect the new speakers to outperform the M80s by a fair margin, or why keep them.


I don’t disagree that buying from the same place can make sense for many reasons especially if they’ve done you right. However, what I’m referring to is what I’ve read here and in other forums, when I used to bother with them, that shows lack of considering alternatives. It’s one thing to make a rational decision based on various factors, loyalty both ways being a valid one, however it’s IMO irrational to jump on a the bandwagon for a new product if not already keeping up with what other producers have or are doing and without any direct or even indirect experience with the product.

I find it difficult to believe that Axiom can produce a new type of speaker that can outperform the M80s by a fair margin let alone do it without costing a fair amount more. Awhile back a way over the top, IMO, review of the M80v3s was posted which I commented on negatively because the reviewer made it sound like the incremental improvement made the old M80 sound like crap, at least by comparison. With Axiom already comparing it’s speakers in double blind tests to speakers costing many times more as “similarly good” I find it hard to believe they can produce a new speaker that can sound even better w/o charging much more for it. Again bringing up the issue of value, how much more is slightly better sound going to be worth to someone. I submit that most people would benefit more from experimenting more with speaker/listener positioning and very likely room treatments before upgrading speakers, but these aren’t nearly as glamorous. But then I drive a Hyundai so what do I know. wink
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 01:43 AM

Originally Posted By: CV


Very good points, but I'll say that brand loyalty does make some sense. If you have a history of being taken care of by the company, that's value, too.


I dont know how may people on the forum have owned a Jaguar? This is the best example of HORRIBLE customer service from a premium brand that i can think of.... Sure, their cars are nice... However, i would NEVER buy one specifically because of the way they treat customers after the purchase...

I would pose the argument that in todays market, customer service is THE most important factor in a company that wishes to obtain repeat business. For me, a company with the best customer service will get my business, even if their product is marginally inferior to a company that offers horrible service.


Originally Posted By: grunt

I find it difficult to believe that Axiom can produce a new type of speaker that can outperform the M80s by a fair margin let alone do it without costing a fair amount more.


Just to make a fare argument, Ian has not stated a price, but i think that it would be rational to expect a higher cost, due to the active DSP even if everything else is held constant.


Also, the Social Scientist in me, says it is completely rational for people to get excited about the prospect of a future product/purchase... Retail therapy for guys you might say......
Posted by: Jc

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 08:45 AM

Good Monday morning,

I have what I qualify as a “privilege” for having been part of Axiom’s organization for the past seven (7) years. I know that even if my evaluation might be partial there are solid facts which can’t be ignored and a track record to prove it. Axiom’s goal of extracting from an audio speaker its maximum performance based on scientific premises at an affordable cost for the average consumer while maintaining a quality construction and reliability.

The well deserved praise won by the Axiom M80 over the years makes it a tough act to follow. As I have reported before, I have personally audition speakers costing much more that had an overall performance inferior to it. I, for one, have absolutely no doubts that the M100 will raise the bar.

Furthermore, the excitement which I’m experiencing is not only due to the coming M100 but also about Ian’s comment concerning the repercussions on the other Axiom speaker models. I think that some have already forgotten Ian’s post several pages back and when you know Ian as well as I do . . . there is absolutely no hype in his comment.
It is worth reading it over, slowly, once more . . . (I'll save you the trouble of looking for it ; here it is)

Originally Posted By: Ian
For now I would like to add that this new product has been just a fantastic journey in the making. Though the early beginnings go back about 10 years, it really began in earnest a few years ago when Andrew and I had the first opportunities to hang out and chat about our prior experiences and experiments. It became apparent rather quickly that our combined experiences could be put together to create a whole new direction for a speaker design. As a base we had all the experiments that we had done over the years that had netted similar results, even though they were being done in separate laboratories and without any collusion back and forth. This brought some real clarity to a plethora of elements about speaker design. Of course a lot of these experiments were pretty mainstream anyway so similar results would be expected but there were also quite a number that were not. Added to this we had the experiments we had done that were in totally different directions. Here we had the opportunity to collaborate and develop new experiments.

I guess if I had to boil it down to the two most prominent and broad categories that we were collaborating on it would be the utilization of DSPs and the utilization of omni-directional design. These two main foundations, plus a multitude of other ideas and experiences, could now be used to carve out some totally new territory. As with all things Axiom this new direction had to ultimately prove itself out in Double Blind Listen Testing. For Andrew the Double Blind Test was nothing new since it was very much in keeping with the methodology followed at API. I guess given the early roots of both Axiom and API at the NRC this is not surprising.

So after all these years we are now just about ready to unveil the first product of this research. I might add that along with our new speaker model will be the ability to juice the performance of some of our existing models. From a timing point of view we are currently building the prototypes for the show and should be done sometime in the next few weeks. It is our plan to take a pile of photos and post them here when those samples are completed. I think once we have this visual would be a sensible time to start going over the details.

Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 10:42 AM

Of course, everything here is speculation. Not only in my post right here, but in almost every previous one. None of us has heard the new speaker yet, so making any assumptions about it's value in comparison to the existing Axiom lineup or to other brands is pointless.

So, continuing on with my pointless post.....

[speculation mode]

My guess, based upon the information we DO know, is that the new speakers are not going to re-invent the M80s. After all, they already are known for being flat, having incredible dynamic range (especially with good power), and having a neutral sound. I don't really know where an M80 could be improved, with the possible exception of a few more 6.5", or additional 8~10" drivers to bring their bottom end even lower yet.

What HAS been said, is that the new speaker offers rear-facing drivers and interestingly, requires separate amplification of those drivers.

There's a difference in imaging between a point-source and omnidirectional speaker (or at least one with rear-facing drivers). I had some old DCM Timeframe speakers before my Axioms, and they had rear-facing drivers as well. The Bose 901s are probably the best known, and most extreme example of the kind, with a single forward facing driver and many rear-facing drivers.

Having a speaker with this design can seriously spread out the soundstage; detractors say it takes away from precise imaging.

My guess is that the Axiom design team will use the rear-facing speakers here, in conjunction with separate amps and processing, to offer the best of both worlds.

And, if true, there really won't be an easy comparison of value to an M80 or to another brand, because the speaker could offer something that the others can't: A wide, yet precise soundstage for stereo listening, and possibly the ability to "bypass" the rear speakers if they are operating in an environment or with sources where you don't wish to broaden the soundstage. (Though if they offered point-source-like imaging as well, I'm not sure there would ever be much of a reason to turn off those rear drivers!).

[/speculation mode]
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 10:45 AM

Until very recently, Axiom did not discuss future products - period. You'd know about it when it became available for purchase. A few forum comments complained about this.... Axiom took note of those complaints. Now they have decided to "let the cat out of the bag" a bit early. Now that is being compared to AV123....
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 10:48 AM

Shall I start handing out the pistols now?

Everyone stand in a circle, please.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 11:01 AM

I don't think this announcement was too early. Mike's right: I was one who posted in the past that Axiom should do this sort of "early notification" to forum members.

If it had been six MONTHS before release, that would have been too early. Interest and speculation would turn to disappointment.

But we're only talking about 5 weeks from announcement here to demonstrating it live.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 11:09 AM

It looks like there's going to be a better way to create a wall-of-sound besides 2 sets of mains, like mine. I still doubt that it'll be a possible installation at my home. Speakers are too close together, and would stick out into the room too far. Would have to sit in the sweet spot, just to see the TV.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 11:45 AM

Originally Posted By: michael_d
Until very recently, Axiom did not discuss future products - period. You'd know about it when it became available for purchase. A few forum comments complained about this.... Axiom took note of those complaints. Now they have decided to "let the cat out of the bag" a bit early. Now that is being compared to AV123....


What Axiom has done is exactly how you want to roll-out and market a new product. Announcing that you are showing off a new product at a conference is a standard in the technology industry.

In today's social media, people getting excited, people complaining, people speculating is all part of the process. This is all normal.








Posted by: grunt

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 12:03 PM

I’m not sure who compared Axiom to AV123. I was making note of the similarities between the tenor of the comments by the Axiom fanboys to AV123 fanboys. As for Axiom it made a good marketing call to preannounce something new coming up to generate hype. They may also have taken a sales hit temporarily since some buyers may now be waiting to see what’s coming before buying something.

I knew my comment would probably generate much consternation among some people and it worked. Especially for those who’ve chosen to read into it things that weren’t said. This says a lot about people and group dynamics . . . that the Axiom forum (members) as a group are not different in kind only degree from AV123, AVS, Audioholics . . . .

Sorry you all feel like I’m pissing on your parade. JC deftly redirected this back to the threads original topic, interesting some people couldn’t leave it that way.

Posted by: JBall

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 12:37 PM

Originally Posted By: grunt
I’m not sure who compared Axiom to AV123. I was making note of the similarities between the tenor of the comments by the Axiom fanboys to AV123 fanboys. As for Axiom it made a good marketing call to preannounce something new coming up to generate hype. They may also have taken a sales hit temporarily since some buyers may now be waiting to see what’s coming before buying something.

I knew my comment would probably generate much consternation among some people and it worked. Especially for those who’ve chosen to read into it things that weren’t said. This says a lot about people and group dynamics . . . that the Axiom forum (members) as a group are not different in kind only degree from AV123, AVS, Audioholics . . . .

Sorry you all feel like I’m pissing on your parade. JC deftly redirected this back to the threads original topic, interesting some people couldn’t leave it that way.


Well stated. I do find the tone in this forum to me much like the tone from the AV123 forums years ago. Members here really can't take any negative comments about Axiom. I guess it's to be expected there is always a bias towards the brand on its forum.

If Axiom's new speaker will be higher cost than the M80s (say $2500/ pair), then I think its fair game people also evaluate alternative options at this price point. There are a lot of really good options at this price point but very few that are active designs like these. Adam audio comes to mind. Great speakers but pricey.

In any event, the folks at Axiom don't give you vaporware like AV123 so they should be applauded in that respect.
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 12:43 PM

I'll be there..
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 12:55 PM

Fantastic, Luc! One of the most fun parts about leaving Dwight is meeting up with people we've 'known' forever on the boards. Of course, come summer, that can be one of the most fun parts of staying in Dwight, too!

Hopefully lots of you can make it out and enjoy the new speaker and some live music and even a beer with Alan, JC, or Andrew.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 01:00 PM

I'm still considering it as a possibility, Amie....a hopeful possibility even!

If I had ordered my VP160 last week, there might have been the possibility of just picking it up at the show! smile
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 01:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
Fantastic, Luc! One of the most fun parts about leaving Dwight is meeting up with people we've 'known' forever on the boards. Of course, come summer, that can be one of the most fun parts of staying in Dwight, too!

Hopefully lots of you can make it out and enjoy the new speaker and some live music and even a beer with Alan, JC, or Andrew.


is there a way to bribe a m80 speaker upgrade? :-)
I could even add a pair of Axiom ax 1.5
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 01:28 PM

Mark, I'll try and get the weather organized so it's sunny and bright for your drive . . . Luc, for that you have to negotiate with the Big Boss. LOL!
Posted by: Jc

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 01:32 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
. . .
I dont know how may people on the forum have owned a Jaguar? This is the best example of HORRIBLE customer service from a premium brand that i can think of.... Sure, their cars are nice... However, i would NEVER buy one specifically because of the way they treat customers after the purchase...

Hi Dakkon,
I once purchased a brand new dark red 1979 Jaguar XJS and had the European head lights kit installed . . . what a beauty ! I kept it for a full two years but could enjoyed it only a total of one single year or so because of the multiple lengthy periods of time it had to go back to the dealer's repair shop. The 12 cylinder engine had to be rebuilt twice to give you an idea. The dealer who was also a Saab dealer once loaned me a Saab and the damned car failed; it had to be towed back to the shop as well. But that XJS what a superb car it was . . . when operating !
Posted by: Jc

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 01:34 PM

Originally Posted By: LucRaymond
I'll be there..


Bravo Luc,
L'occasion parfaite pour une première rencontre !
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 01:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Jc
Originally Posted By: dakkon
. . .
I dont know how may people on the forum have owned a Jaguar? This is the best example of HORRIBLE customer service from a premium brand that i can think of.... Sure, their cars are nice... However, i would NEVER buy one specifically because of the way they treat customers after the purchase...

Hi Dakkon,
I once purchased a brand new dark red 1979 Jaguar XJS and had the European head lights kit installed . . . what a beauty ! I kept it for a full two years but could enjoyed it only a total of one single year or so because of the multiple lengthy periods of time it had to go back to the dealer's repair shop. The 12 cylinder engine had to be rebuilt twice to give you an idea. The dealer who was also a Saab dealer once loaned me a Saab and the damned car failed; it had to be towed back to the shop as well. But that XJS what a superb car it was . . . when operating !


You need deep pockets to own a Jag. Nice cars but they are a bottomless money pit.
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 02:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Jc
Originally Posted By: LucRaymond
I'll be there..


Bravo Luc,
L'occasion parfaite pour une première rencontre !


oui! j'ai bien hâte !
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 02:04 PM

You lost me after "oui", Luc.
Posted by: Jc

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 02:08 PM

Originally Posted By: BlueJays1
. . . You need deep pockets to own a Jag. Nice cars but they are a bottomless money pit.


BlueJays1,
No wonder I'm broke these days driving a 4 year old Chevy compact model.
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 02:18 PM

My personal Axiom museum! Not shown on the picture but I do own an additional 4 pairs of QS8. Will the new speaker fit in the family picture??



M80,M60,M22,AX1.5,VP180,VP150,AX1.2,AX1.5,M22,M60,M80
+
QS8 on the ceiling somewhere!
Posted by: Wid

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 02:23 PM


Where's the VP160 smile
Posted by: Jc

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 02:28 PM

Luc,

For sure an Axiom museum plus a store floor as well, more than impressive !
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 02:33 PM

Wow- that's really something!
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 03:06 PM

Incredible!!! That's fabulous!
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 03:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Jc
Originally Posted By: dakkon
. . .
I dont know how may people on the forum have owned a Jaguar? This is the best example of HORRIBLE customer service from a premium brand that i can think of.... Sure, their cars are nice... However, i would NEVER buy one specifically because of the way they treat customers after the purchase...

Hi Dakkon,
I once purchased a brand new dark red 1979 Jaguar XJS and had the European head lights kit installed . . . what a beauty ! I kept it for a full two years but could enjoyed it only a total of one single year or so because of the multiple lengthy periods of time it had to go back to the dealer's repair shop. The 12 cylinder engine had to be rebuilt twice to give you an idea. The dealer who was also a Saab dealer once loaned me a Saab and the damned car failed; it had to be towed back to the shop as well. But that XJS what a superb car it was . . . when operating !



it must have been in the late 60's that a friend went to a Jag dealer in Montreal. he asked the salesman about the reliability problems Jag was having with their cars.
the salesman's answer was: we sell the name, sir.

no need to say he did not buy the name.
it's a wonder they're still in business.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 03:32 PM

Originally Posted By: grunt
I’m not sure who compared Axiom to AV123. I was making note of the similarities between the tenor of the comments by the Axiom fanboys to AV123 fanboys. As for Axiom it made a good marketing call to preannounce something new coming up to generate hype. They may also have taken a sales hit temporarily since some buyers may now be waiting to see what’s coming before buying something.

I knew my comment would probably generate much consternation among some people and it worked. Especially for those who’ve chosen to read into it things that weren’t said. This says a lot about people and group dynamics . . . that the Axiom forum (members) as a group are not different in kind only degree from AV123, AVS, Audioholics . . . .

Sorry you all feel like I’m pissing on your parade. JC deftly redirected this back to the threads original topic, interesting some people couldn’t leave it that way.


I wasn't picking on you, so I hope you don't take my comments in that light. I just made an observation, just like you did...

It's quite amusing really. Kinda reminds me of my day job with my direct reports. I listen to their complaints, make adjustments to sooth their gripes, to only get more grief from others. It's a never ending cycle.

People have also been bitching on this sight about Axiom not offering a "premium" line of speakers and that they need to step up their game. It sounds like they are about to get just what they've been asking for. My crystal ball tells me that there will be a flood of folks finding something to bitch about with the new line after they are released. - The wheel just keep turning and we will get to see the same cog, over and over again. It certainally isn't worth getting upset about.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 04:11 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Wow- that's really somethinga lot of things!

FIXED.

Seriously. Wow!
Posted by: medic8r

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 05:08 PM

Originally Posted By: michael_d
It certainly isn't worth getting upset about.

Michael has discovered the secret to happiness.

Seriously. If only people didn't take a lot of things too seriously.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 05:12 PM

I tried telling my mortgage holder that, but they got all "you haven't paid since July" and stuff like that.

I told the guy "Dude! You're like, SO uptight. Chill Dude!"

Anyways, my car isn't all that uncomfortable and stuff.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 05:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
The show will be held at the Hilton Montreal Bonaventure March 23-25th.


Hey, I just realized this is over a weekend, which opens up some interesting possibilities.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 06:08 PM

Originally Posted By: medic8r
Seriously. If only people didn't take a lot of things too seriously.


I think more people need to take things more seriously. There's too many sheeple in the world grin .
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 06:19 PM

Originally Posted By: bridgman
Originally Posted By: Amie
The show will be held at the Hilton Montreal Bonaventure March 23-25th.


Hey, I just realized this is over a weekend, which opens up some interesting possibilities.


Who doesn't have an 'interesting weekend in Montreal' story? Oh, if only Ian knew . . . {grin}

I'm not announcing anything publicly in case the Regie is watching, but there is a possibility there will also be a contest at the show. We will see if they approve!
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 06:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
Who doesn't have an 'interesting weekend in Montreal' story? Oh, if only Ian knew . . . {grin}


That was the first time you had seen a handicapped stripper. I've never been tipped so well.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 06:35 PM

Cam!!! You promised!!!
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 06:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
Cam!!! You promised!!!


Oh, yeah.

Ummmm, Ian, there's nothing to read here. Move along....
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 07:22 PM

Originally Posted By: medic8r
Originally Posted By: michael_d
It certainly isn't worth getting upset about.

Michael has discovered the secret to happiness.

Seriously. If only people didn't take a lot of things too seriously.

The fallout from this post is going to keep you in Olive Garden lunches for a long time isn't it.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 07:26 PM

Sigh, 4 pages, 47 posts and no pictures...
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 08:20 PM

Maybe tuesday?
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 09:50 PM

the top link on the "meanwhile on facebook" box to the left indicates a pic due in 24 hours. Don't have a fb account so I can't see when the 24h is up...
Posted by: Wid

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/12/12 10:18 PM


That was posted on FB 9 hours ago.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 03:12 AM

Originally Posted By: michael_d

I wasn't picking on you, so I hope you don't take my comments in that light. I just made an observation, just like you did...

It's quite amusing really. Kinda reminds me of my day job with my direct reports. I listen to their complaints, make adjustments to sooth their gripes, to only get more grief from others. It's a never ending cycle.

People have also been bitching on this sight about Axiom not offering a "premium" line of speakers and that they need to step up their game. It sounds like they are about to get just what they've been asking for. My crystal ball tells me that there will be a flood of folks finding something to bitch about with the new line after they are released. - The wheel just keep turning and we will get to see the same cog, over and over again. It certainally isn't worth getting upset about.


I didn’t take any offence but just wanted to make sure no one who only read part of the thread thought that I was in any way trashing Axiom. Funny how people have so often assumed that, without noticing in my signature that I own 14 Axiom speakers.

You are correct about the complaints, and they will come from the usual suspects in the usual places with the vast majority never even having listened to the speakers. This is inherent with things that break from convention like up/down facing midranges or two tweeters and even more generally a thing called brand tribalism.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 12:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Wid

That was posted on FB 9 hours ago.


Okay, it's been 24 now.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Pictures of the New Speakers!!!!! - 03/13/12 02:05 PM

.....is what you'll be seeing here at some point! grin
Posted by: Amie

Re: Pictures of the New Speakers!!!!! - 03/13/12 02:14 PM

Non FB-ers, pics will not be posted for another 5 hours or so. Apologies!!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Pictures of the New Speakers!!!!! - 03/13/12 03:18 PM

5 hours!!!....

so, right at dinner time......


Just kidding Amie.... At least now some of us will know not to refresh the forum every 5 minutes...............
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Pictures of the New Speakers!!!!! - 03/13/12 03:35 PM

Maybe now? Nope.

How about now? Nope.

Now? Nope.

Now? Nope.

Now? Nope.
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: Pictures of the New Speakers!!!!! - 03/13/12 04:33 PM

Those darn Facebookers.... Oh wait, I have Facebook on my phone... Although, maybe I don't want to look. I've resisted (most) upgrade-itis, and not even knowing where this will fall, I may be wanting to get them.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Pictures of the New Speakers!!!!! - 03/13/12 04:39 PM

Originally Posted By: CatBrat
Maybe now? Nope.

How about now? Nope.

Now? Nope.

Now? Nope.

Now? Nope.



point proven.... however, i think copy/paste was involved.......
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: Pictures of the New Speakers!!!!! - 03/13/12 04:45 PM

Hmmm. Can't find any pictures on FB. Then again, the Facebook app sucks.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Pictures of the New Speakers!!!!! - 03/13/12 04:55 PM

It said on facebook yesterday, that they would be posted here. And to think I rushed home from work! I knew I should have went golfing.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 04:56 PM

Oooh, patience isn't my strong point!! Here's an uncropped, un-photoshopped first look . . . Note that the outriggers are in fact going to be black in production.

More pics to follow before too long!


Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 04:57 PM

Excellent!
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 05:12 PM

Grills off? laugh
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 05:13 PM

Yeah, I want to see some naked speakers.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 05:16 PM

It's probably just the picture, but the grills look like they're flush with the front edging of the cabinet.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 05:21 PM

Nice! I like the angled grill details... gives them a sense of style over the common black monolith!
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 05:32 PM

Here's the rendering of the grille in sports-car striping. We'll be adding this to Customize-Yours at some point so if you want the middle grille in a complementary color, you can have it! Personally I think it's cool.


Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 05:32 PM

Oops! Just noticed my drivers are showing!! CatBrat, this one's for you!
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 05:33 PM

i love the appearance.
it looks 6 ft. tall too...
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 05:36 PM

It looks one driver taller than the M80.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 05:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
Oops! Just noticed my drivers are showing!! CatBrat, this one's for you!


Woohoo. Not quite the same as naked, but I'll take what I can get.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 05:41 PM

It's 48 inches / 1207 mm tall.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 05:49 PM

Amie, what if one wanted the out riggers in brushed natural aluminum, like they are on the show pair? I am guessing you the aluminum is getting anodized to get it black?


I am guessing later, you will be posting more photos, of the front/back/side of the speaker, with the grills on and off?

Thanks for the "sneak preview" Amie.
Posted by: Bayne

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 06:02 PM

I certainly hope those go faster stripes won't cause the music to speed-up so all the singers sound like Alvin and the Chipmunks.

Seriously though, that's a nice aesthetic. Is there a chance it might carry over on to the Home Theater line eventually?
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 07:14 PM

I think there's a reason they're going to be in black but I'll wait for Andrew or Ian to weigh in.

Speaking of Ian, he's also decided we can't wait for pmbuko to finish cropping the photos (just kidding!) so I'm posting them uncropped now - I'll update with the cropped photos as soon as they are in. It feels a bit like going out without any lipstick on . . . girl thing?

Here we go!! The Big Reveal . . .






Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 07:20 PM

Wow! Beautiful!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 07:22 PM

Damn, those look REALLY f&*king good... Sorry for my poor french, i didn't do so great in that subject in high school....
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 07:24 PM

Wow, they look beautiful without any lipstick !
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 07:26 PM

They are beautiful, Amie!

How soon before we get the specs/info on them?
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 07:34 PM

That rosewood is just too purdy to cover up with grills.... I know it's not practical, but if they were even two inches wider, two inches taller, they'd show a bit more skin with the grills on and be more sexy.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 07:41 PM

What, you mean more details than 'pretty big' and 'really heavy'? LOL! You'll get the details as soon as I have them! Note that these speakers have a left and a right - I have a picture of that coming soon!
Posted by: JC2

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 07:57 PM

Wow, it seems to be a bipolar configuration, the sound will be incredible...

JC2
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 08:07 PM

These are awesome to say the least. I want some. Naked is best.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 08:19 PM

First impression: they look like, um, speakers.

Second impression: Oooh! Cool grills.

Third impression:**@! darned broken browser/interweb pipes/website ***** Load dammit! refreshrefreshrefresh...

This is like watching a stripper... in super slow motion...

14 refreshes to completely load most of the pics.

Yup. Speakers... with lots of drivers. Damn that rosewood looks good.

Wish I could get to Montreal to give them a listen.
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 08:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
What, you mean more details than 'pretty big' and 'really heavy'? LOL!


No laughing matter, though, is how are these beauties gonna be shipped and make it in one piece? May have to go wooden crate and freight del'y - cardboard ain't gonna cut it...
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 08:58 PM

they are about the same size as an EP600, probably around the same weight...

the M200 may need crates/freight.....
Posted by: SmokeyMcBear

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 08:58 PM

I don't understand... are those 4 tweeters and 4 midrange with two of each firing backwards... i.. i don't understand.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 09:09 PM

Originally Posted By: SmokeyMcBear
I don't understand... are those 4 tweeters and 4 midrange with two of each firing backwards... i.. i don't understand.


Yes, but the front and back drivers are not connected together. wink
Posted by: SmokeyMcBear

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 09:11 PM

I've just never seen that or heard of that, then again, I'm new to all of this. Whats the reason/advantage for having this sort of configuration. Would this speaker be best used in open space, meaning not close to a back wall say for a home theatre? I just really don't understand it, not trying to cause controversy.
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 09:15 PM

These elicit memories of bose 901's . Looks expensive.

Note to self ---


up limit on credit card

wish i could come hear them, maybe if everyone pools some money and sends it to me.

just saying grin grin laugh
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 09:17 PM

I would like to know the benefit as well of the rear firing configuration. Is it to simulate a larger front sound field while still yielding uncompromised forward facing audio?

Also, all of you M80 folks are no longer at the top of the food chain. Ha ha! (I've dealt with that for years now with my awesome M60s...)
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 09:21 PM

Actually, look more to me like the old Cambridge Soundworks Tower 1s.

The rear firing array is for reflected sound. It theoretically helps increase the soundstage, but (usually) at the expense of imaging. Given Ian's focus on imaging (ha!) I would wager that the other part of this (the magic box), takes care of that little issue.
Posted by: whippersnapper

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 09:21 PM

So I take it there will be some DSP wizardry going between the front- and rear-firing speakers? Maybe delay the front so that the rear sound has a chance to envelope a bit and arrive closer in time with the front? Maybe delay the back to make the room seem bigger? Maybe fully user selectable, so we can never stop tweaking?
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 09:24 PM

Originally Posted By: whippersnapper
So I take it there will be some DSP wizardry going between the front- and rear-firing speakers? Maybe delay the front so that the rear sound has a chance to envelope a bit and arrive closer in time with the front? Maybe delay the back to make the room seem bigger? Maybe fully user selectable, so we can never stop tweaking?


Yes
No
No
No

wink
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 09:42 PM

So how far off am I, Andrew?
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 09:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Ken.C
So how far off am I, Andrew?


I can't spill all the beans yet, but fundamentally you are correct. It's important to note that this speaker will not work without the DSP. It's integral to making the system work as intended.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 09:51 PM


Will the DSP work with the existing Axiom speakers?
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 10:09 PM

I dont think there would be any point, i think the main job of the DSP is to make the rear speakers and front speakers play nice with each other, and since this is the only speaker with both front and rear speakers, it would be the only speaker in the lineup that would require/ have the ability of taking advantage of the DSP..


Andrew, can you say what the size of the DSP box will be? Will it be a 19ish" unit, the standard HT component size?
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 10:16 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
I dont think there would be any point, i think the main job of the DSP is to make the rear speakers and front speakers play nice with each other, and since this is the only speaker with both front and rear speakers, it would be the only speaker in the lineup that would require/ have the ability of taking advantage of the DSP..


Andrew, can you say what the size of the DSP box will be? Will it be a 19ish" unit, the standard HT component size?


In the case of this new model, you are correct. However, there are other areas of the other models in our line-up that we can significantly improve with a DSP.

The DSP is housed in a 19" wide chassis and is a standard 2U rack height.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 10:18 PM

Maybe some 8 year old M60ti's? smile

Do you know if Ian will have a price for the M100 at the show this weekend?
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 10:21 PM

I think my wallet will be safe from this one. I will go have an audition but I was hoping for something a little bit different. Looks like a M80 with a M22 or W22 on it's back. That thing should be call a M102! :-)

I don't like the grille either.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 10:42 PM

Dan, there's nothing novel about speakers with a set of drivers also on the back, as I mentioned as a possibility in a previous post. For example, Definitive Technology has an extensive series of BiPolar speakers. These lead to a more nearly omni-directional output. The new story here is the electronic processing that will be applied to the back speakers, possibly making phase and/or frequency modifications to the signals sent to them.
Posted by: JBall

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 10:46 PM

I am NOT a huge fan of BiPolar speakers used for the front channels but I guess I will reserve judgement till some of the pro magazines like Stereophile, S&V and Audioholics reviews them. I am curious to hear a set myself too.

Unless I am mistaking, the DSP must go between the processor and the amplifier. This is all done in the analog domain which IMO is a disadvantage.

For speakers like M60s/M80s, how can this be advantageous over a good room correction system like Audyssey or TACT which is all done in the digital domain and actually measures the room-speaker interaction to come up with a correction curve?
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 10:46 PM

Originally Posted By: JohnK
The new story here is the electronic processing that will be applied to the back speakers, possibly making phase and/or frequency modifications to the signals sent to them.


Wouldn't the timing be a nightmare? depending on each situation and distances away from the wall... unless there is a specified distance from the wall; i would think that the timing of the rear speakers would vary with each persons room. Since each room introduces variables that determine optimal distance from the wall and almost no 2 rooms are the same......
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 10:58 PM

Alex, since the exact nature of the signal processing is unknown to us, we can only hope that Axiom has solved some of the problems which have affected such speakers.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 11:08 PM

Okay, here's the image Andrew has been waiting for!



And all the images from earlier in the thread are replaced with a lipsticked version (as Steve would say!)
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 11:17 PM

Black does look better!
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 11:19 PM

I did not want to want these speakers......

Cue Roy Orbison....

Cryinnnnnnnnnng Over you........
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 11:20 PM

I want these I want these I want these!!!!!!!!! In Rosewood In Rosewood In Rosewood!!!!!!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 11:20 PM

Cat, give Lampy his login back.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/13/12 11:58 PM

I can't wait to hear a pair in person.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 12:42 AM

I cant wait to hear a pair in a room.
Posted by: TitaniumMan

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 03:36 AM

I believe we have a new definition of MOAR!
Posted by: Steve H

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 06:27 AM

Originally Posted By: Amie
And all the images from earlier in the thread are replaced with a lipsticked version (as Steve would say!)


Thanks Amie. You know how I hate going out in public without lipstick!


...Did I just say that?
Posted by: onn

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 07:53 AM

Bob says I have too many Rosewood speakers but I'll take those 2 when your done with them.
Please!
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 07:54 AM

Do they come in zebra or alligator hide?
Posted by: Jc

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 08:20 AM

Originally Posted By: CatBrat
Do they come in zebra or alligator hide?


Catbrat,
There is an inside rumour that Zebra and Alligator hide would be replacing tha standard finishes Black Oak and Boston Cherry . . .
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 09:50 AM

Cool!

What about a real mirror finish? So that cat's will prance to their images as they go past the speakers.
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 10:08 AM

little cats or a big CatBrat?
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 10:12 AM

Originally Posted By: Lampshade
little cats or a big CatBrat?


We would need video documentation of either of those. One for YouTube, and one for our personal enjoyment and ridicule encouragement of CatBrat...
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 10:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Amie
I think there's a reason they're going to be in black but I'll wait for Andrew or Ian to weigh in.

Speaking of Ian, he's also decided we can't wait for pmbuko to finish cropping the photos (just kidding!) so I'm posting them uncropped now - I'll update with the cropped photos as soon as they are in. It feels a bit like going out without any lipstick on . . . girl thing?

Here we go!! The Big Reveal . . .






Is there a smaller version coming soon? say, M60 (looking) in the front, M2 (looking) in back?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 10:51 AM

Scott, are your ceilings too low for this one? smile
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 11:09 AM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Scott, are your ceilings too low for this one? smile


He can always just buy some ceiling hooks and hang them.
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 11:17 AM

Originally Posted By: LucRaymond
Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Scott, are your ceilings too low for this one? smile


He can always just buy some ceiling hooks and hang them.

laugh My wife gives me enough grief about hanging the M80's from macrame slings as it is - please don't encourage her!

Mark, for once I'm thinking downgrade-itis might be appropriate. Although if Amie were to deliver those, I'd be gracious and accept them, of course. wink
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 11:31 AM

Hey, I offered to bring you a VP160 when I came to visit last week! But oh no . . .
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 11:48 AM

I decided to help my Axiom friends by releasing my wonderful product evaluation diagram. Hoping it would help someone not sure about buying new products.



I use it every time! it works for me.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 11:55 AM

Maybe I should buy that new iPAD after all.
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 12:00 PM

Originally Posted By: CatBrat
Maybe I should buy that new iPAD after all.


glad to know I helped someone! :-)
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 12:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
Hey, I offered to bring you a VP160 when I came to visit last week! But oh no . . .

IIRC, you offered after you arrived. But I'll take you up on the in-home consult for the placement when I do order.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 12:17 PM

It's true, it's true. Hey, if you're cooking up those incredible oysters again, I'll be down for a weekly consult while you're making your decision! Ohhh, and the shrimp, and the . . . is anyone else hungry?
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 12:18 PM

Originally Posted By: LucRaymond
I decided to help my Axiom friends by releasing my wonderful product evaluation diagram. Hoping it would help someone not sure about buying new products.



I use it every time! it works for me.


Oh man . . . this is a must-link from the newsletter!!
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 12:33 PM

OK, I've finally been asked to spill some of the beans regarding this new, as-yet-unnamed, model. By now we have received a number of questions, all of which are in a similar vein:

I've seen these before, aren't they just a bipolar speaker?
Why have drivers on the back of a speaker where I can't hear them?
Why do you need 4 amplifier channels and a DSP anyway?
What are you guys up in Dwight smoking, and where can I get some? wink

First a little background:
Many people do not realize that the sound we hear from a speaker in a room is comprised of direct and reflected signals that come from all surfaces of the speaker, except for the bottom if they are floor-standers sitting directly on the floor. smile It's an amazing sight to measure a conventional speaker in an anechoic chamber with the BACK of the cabinet pointed at the microphone and witness that there is quite a bit going on back there. The bulk of the sound does come from the front and sides of a typical speaker, but as we move higher and higher in frequency, more of that information disappears as we move around the cabinet. Low frequencies don't behave the same way as they are omnidirectional by nature. This gives us something of a discontinuity in that at higher and higher frequencies we are radiating less and less acoustic energy, or power, into the room. So why do we care? Well, simply because this issue of "most of the energy up front" tends to compress the natural sense of acoustic and depth perspective of instruments, singers, and the space they were recorded.

The idea of biploar, which as many of you know I am VERY familiar with, was to duplicate the signal coming from the front of the speaker at the back of the speaker. This signal would be in phase with the front (push-push), unlike a dipole which would be out of phase at the back (push-pull). Theoretically, you would now have an ideal radiation pattern all around the cabinet, with no reduction in mid and high frequencies. Unfortunately, there are significant issues that come with the benefits. One is that by introducing this extra energy into the room, you end up skewing the total balance. It's becomes tipped up at the top end. You also end up with some serious cancellations between the front and rear drivers which tend to wash out images and give you 10 foot wide vocalists! And because you are driving this bipolar speaker with a single amplifier, you have limited control on how different the front and back signals can be. In many cases the level of the rear section is simply reduced to try and combat these issues. We have a speaker that has a natural sense of space and depth, but with tonal and imaging issues. Great...

The solution? Come up with a way to give the speaker a perfect power response, get rid of the cancellation, and make sure the tonal balance is perfect. Easy, right? Yes, it does sound easy, but practically it's difficult to implement. You need to drive the front and back sections differently and independently. That's why we need an extra stereo amplifier for this speaker. We also need to have far more control over the acoustic response of both sections of the speaker, something impossible with conventional crossover networks on their own. 4-channel DSP to the rescue!

If you do this right, and, believe me, that takes a mountain of R&D, you can have your cake and eat it to. Exactly what we are doing and, more importantly why, will remain a secret. What we have been able to achieve is what we believe to be the first "omnidirectional" speaker, which we've codenamed LFR (Linear Field Radiator), that does not trade off neutral tonal balance and imaging precision for an artificially big sense of space. If you have listened to bipolar speakers before and haven't liked them, you need to listen to these! smile
Posted by: avjunkee

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 12:33 PM

The new speakers look great, but the real fun for me will be learning about how the DSP compensates for room & boundary interactions along with the two independant sets of drivers.

Not only are they taller, but how deep are they? The M80 is already 17" deep. It will be interesting to see what kind of room/placement requirements and/or restrictions are needed.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 12:35 PM

Originally Posted By: avjunkee
The new speakers look great, but the real fun for me will be learning about how the DSP compensates for room & boundary interactions along with the two independant sets of drivers.

Not only are they taller, but how deep are they? The M80 is already 17" deep. It will be interesting to see what kind of room/placement requirements and/or restrictions are needed.


See above. smile
And they are the same depth as the M80s.
Posted by: avjunkee

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 12:39 PM

Ha, thanks Andrew, I see we posted at the same time smile.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 12:42 PM

Andrew, can you speak to room interactions, room size, and reflecting surface (the "front" of the room i.e., the area behind the speaker)?
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 12:43 PM

I didn't see the answer to the "where do I get some of what you're smoking?" question. grin

I have some other questions.

Is there a calibration microphone thingamabob, or are we dependent upon placement for any specific room tuning?

How does all this stuff wire up?

Are you doing A/D and D/A conversions in The Magic Box in order to implement the DSP?

In what ways is this approach superior to 7.1 (or more) HD audio?

I'm not trying to be argumentative; I am really very excited about the technology. I know Ian and Andrew may not want to answer these types of questions. I have always appreciated not only the exquisite products Axiom offers, but also the learning community here.

Bravo, Axiom! The speakers are beautiful and I hope to own them (or at least HEAR them) some day.
Posted by: bwallen77

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 12:43 PM

Andrew,

Will the new DSP box work with the current speaker lineup?
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 12:47 PM

And, what are you smoking?
Posted by: avjunkee

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 01:04 PM

I seem to recall that Axiom's philosophy in the past has been that a mic does not equal two ears and a brain, so I doubt they would implement any type of mic based calibration now.

I don't think this new product is intended to go head to head with 7.1. It may be more of an elite 2.0 type setup, or an alternative to fronts with height and/or wide speakers.

All just speculation on my part.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 01:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
Exactly what we are doing and, more importantly why, will remain a secret.



Andrew, i have 2 questions for you...

first, i do not quite understand the above statement.. I would "think" that the answer is fairly obvious... What... making an omni directional speaker, Why... to offer a product that is "better" than current products available....


Now, to my second question... I do a decent amount of stereo listening... How would these new speakers be in a stereo setup with a pair of EP600's? Right now i have M60ti's (8 years old) and have placed an order for a second EP600...

Also, as Ian has told me, i am a bit insane, which i agree with...

As of now, my am thinking that my next "stereo" speakers will be Wilsons, however Jame's new speaker at bryston has also caught my eye as well, but his speakers require 3 channels per speaker.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 03:24 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Andrew, can you speak to room interactions, room size, and reflecting surface (the "front" of the room i.e., the area behind the speaker)?

Translation: Will these work in my square room?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 04:02 PM

Yeah, that! smile

No, actually I was just curious if they require a largish room.... smile
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 05:38 PM

Originally Posted By: avjunkee
I seem to recall that Axiom's philosophy in the past has been that a mic does not equal two ears and a brain, so I doubt they would implement any type of mic based calibration now.


Maybe purely from a time-response basis, a mic could be used to 'sense' the size of a room based on the time it takes for a signal to go from the front drivers to the mic vs the time it takes for the rear drivers to bounce around the room to the mic...
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 08:49 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Andrew, can you speak to room interactions, room size, and reflecting surface (the "front" of the room i.e., the area behind the speaker)?


Like any larger loudspeaker, these will be happier in larger rooms. It's simply a matter of the amount of radiating area and distances to room boundaries.
They will also work best in setups which will allow them to be 2-3 feet from the rear wall. The angled backs also help in this regard.
Full damping or absorbent panels directly behind the speakers would definitely be a bad idea. A typical plaster or drywall surface will be fine.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 09:22 PM

So, a flat surface behind as opposed to say, a bookshelf's added diffusion?
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 09:34 PM

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
I didn't see the answer to the "where do I get some of what you're smoking?" question. grin

I have some other questions.

Is there a calibration microphone thingamabob, or are we dependent upon placement for any specific room tuning?

How does all this stuff wire up?

Are you doing A/D and D/A conversions in The Magic Box in order to implement the DSP?

In what ways is this approach superior to 7.1 (or more) HD audio?

I'm not trying to be argumentative; I am really very excited about the technology. I know Ian and Andrew may not want to answer these types of questions. I have always appreciated not only the exquisite products Axiom offers, but also the learning community here.

Bravo, Axiom! The speakers are beautiful and I hope to own them (or at least HEAR them) some day.


No microphones and no "room correction". As you know, we are not fans of room correction because the target curve itself is a moving target. There are simply too many variables involved. Not to mention that a number of systems deliberately screw up the frequency response to "compensate" for shortcomings in the source material. But I digress... wink

In this case you have to play with positioning to fine tune performance, just like any other speaker.

The DSP box sits between the pre-amp/processor and the amplifiers. It accepts a stereo (or front left/right) signal input, single-ended or balanced. There are two independent DSP engines, one dedicated to each channel. Because DSP is "digital" by definition, there is an A/D and D/A conversion going on. The conversion and processing operates at 24bits/96kHz. There are four outputs, again single-ended or balanced, for the left front/rear and right front/rear channels. Each output requires its own, matched, amplifier channel.

This system, while providing excellent stereo performance, is equally suited to a home theatre system. It does not attempt to create a false sense of multi-channel sound, rather a more realistic front soundstage.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 09:37 PM

AVJ, at this point there's nothing to indicate that feedback from info picked up by a microphone is involved, but the comment that you're probably referring to should be kept in context. The point was that some things picked up by a microphone which looked terrible(specifically, comb-filtering)weren't a significant problem for less sensitive human ears and when processed by our somewhat forgiving brains.

Edit: as Andrew has now settled in the above post as to no microphone being involved.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 09:37 PM

Originally Posted By: bwallen77
Andrew,

Will the new DSP box work with the current speaker lineup?


We are investigating a 2-channel version of this DSP which would be tuned to a specific model.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 09:47 PM

Sounds revilationary !
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 11:12 PM

Thanks for the info, Andrew!
Posted by: JBall

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 11:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
I didn't see the answer to the "where do I get some of what you're smoking?" question. grin

I have some other questions.

Is there a calibration microphone thingamabob, or are we dependent upon placement for any specific room tuning?

How does all this stuff wire up?

Are you doing A/D and D/A conversions in The Magic Box in order to implement the DSP?

In what ways is this approach superior to 7.1 (or more) HD audio?

I'm not trying to be argumentative; I am really very excited about the technology. I know Ian and Andrew may not want to answer these types of questions. I have always appreciated not only the exquisite products Axiom offers, but also the learning community here.

Bravo, Axiom! The speakers are beautiful and I hope to own them (or at least HEAR them) some day.


No microphones and no "room correction". As you know, we are not fans of room correction because the target curve itself is a moving target. There are simply too many variables involved. Not to mention that a number of systems deliberately screw up the frequency response to "compensate" for shortcomings in the source material. But I digress... wink

In this case you have to play with positioning to fine tune performance, just like any other speaker.

The DSP box sits between the pre-amp/processor and the amplifiers. It accepts a stereo (or front left/right) signal input, single-ended or balanced. There are two independent DSP engines, one dedicated to each channel. Because DSP is "digital" by definition, there is an A/D and D/A conversion going on. The conversion and processing operates at 24bits/96kHz. There are four outputs, again single-ended or balanced, for the left front/rear and right front/rear channels. Each output requires its own, matched, amplifier channel.

This system, while providing excellent stereo performance, is equally suited to a home theatre system. It does not attempt to create a false sense of multi-channel sound, rather a more realistic front soundstage.



So how will this system work in a multi channel setup? If someone is running 9.1 with front height or wide speakers, won't there be too many reflections having a speaker like this? Or is this speaker intended to be used in a very high end 2CH only setup?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 11:28 PM

I believe that Axiom reps have stated elsewhere in this thread that this is intended for 2ch setups at this time.
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 11:29 PM

How many 2 channel nuts do we know on the forum?
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 11:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Lampshade
How many 2 channel nuts do we know on the forum?


How many members do we have now?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/14/12 11:43 PM

I believe we are almost edging into the 5 digits. Amazing. I'm one of the last 3 digits, and I've only been a member for 9 years. Uh.... only? Yeesh.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/15/12 12:01 AM

Originally Posted By: Ken.C
I believe we are almost edging into the 5 digits. Amazing. I'm one of the last 3 digits, and I've only been a member for 9 years. Uh.... only? Yeesh.


Rush- Nobody's Hero?


edit: wrong thread, sry
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/15/12 12:16 AM

Hey Ian, can you show us the secret weapon for the secret weapon yet? That is my.............?
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/15/12 04:28 AM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
We also need to have far more control over the acoustic response of both sections of the speaker, something impossible with conventional crossover networks on their own. 4-channel DSP to the rescue!


Andrew, thanks for taking the time to shed a little light on the design of the new speaker. As for the code in the DSP, do you think this is something that could be refined over time? If so, is Axiom including a way to do something along the lines of firmware updates? It seems like software is becoming a major part of new developments in Axiom's designs. At one point there was talk of the USB port on the backs of the DSP-based subs being a potential way to update the DSP's code, but I'm not sure it was ever utilized for that. Maybe they had Mojo try an update that way once? Or did I dream that? In any case, now it seems to simply be there to plug in a USB light. For a lot of consumers, it would probably be nice to know that performance would continue to be improved over time with simple software updates.

Ideally, it would be nice to see Axiom release a pre-pro of their own, as they planned to do back when the original A1400s were coming out. I can certainly understand why it never happened. People want the world in features these days. I think a lot of the design of the pre-pro would need to be outsourced, and probably production of it as well, but it seems like it would be great to have one central unit doing all of the DSP stuff necessary for these new speakers as well as having the potential to import extra profiles for whatever other Axiom speakers are in the system. A processor that's fully aware of the performance characteristics of every speaker that's connected to it. I know, I ramble a bit.

Besides my unwelcome opinions on how you can cater to me, I do want to say that I like the grills on the new speaker, and it's nice to see some outriggers after people have so often requested them. Will the outriggers be made available for the other floorstanders?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/15/12 04:57 AM

Originally Posted By: CV
it seems like it would be great to have one central unit doing all of the DSP stuff necessary for these new speakers as well as having the potential to import extra profiles for whatever other Axiom speakers are in the system.


Honestly, Charles, I don't see that as being realistic (cool as it would be).

If a pre-pro were designed essentially for these speakers alone, the production run would be so short that the final price would be astronomical. Even if the DSP technology were to be made available to ALL the Axiom lineup in the future, that pre-pro would still only likely sell in infinitesimally small numbers in comparison to the rest of the market.

On the other hand, if Axiom were to design and produce an excellent pre-pro that sold well BEYOND the Axiom family because of it's feature-set, upgrade ability and reasonable cost, incorporating a DSP that specifically enhances Axiom speakers might result in a good number of additional speakers being sold as well.

Mighty tall order in the fast changing pre-pro world, though.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/15/12 06:58 AM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
So, a flat surface behind as opposed to say, a bookshelf's added diffusion?


Diffusing surfaces will also work well. You only want to stay away from damping.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/15/12 07:01 AM

Originally Posted By: JBall

So how will this system work in a multi channel setup? If someone is running 9.1 with front height or wide speakers, won't there be too many reflections having a speaker like this? Or is this speaker intended to be used in a very high end 2CH only setup?


It will work equally well in a multi channel setup. You might even find that you are able to get away without wide channels. Height channels will not be effected in any way and can still be beneficial in some systems.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/15/12 07:18 AM

Originally Posted By: CV
Originally Posted By: Andrew
We also need to have far more control over the acoustic response of both sections of the speaker, something impossible with conventional crossover networks on their own. 4-channel DSP to the rescue!


Andrew, thanks for taking the time to shed a little light on the design of the new speaker. As for the code in the DSP, do you think this is something that could be refined over time? If so, is Axiom including a way to do something along the lines of firmware updates? It seems like software is becoming a major part of new developments in Axiom's designs. At one point there was talk of the USB port on the backs of the DSP-based subs being a potential way to update the DSP's code, but I'm not sure it was ever utilized for that. Maybe they had Mojo try an update that way once? Or did I dream that? In any case, now it seems to simply be there to plug in a USB light. For a lot of consumers, it would probably be nice to know that performance would continue to be improved over time with simple software updates.

Ideally, it would be nice to see Axiom release a pre-pro of their own, as they planned to do back when the original A1400s were coming out. I can certainly understand why it never happened. People want the world in features these days. I think a lot of the design of the pre-pro would need to be outsourced, and probably production of it as well, but it seems like it would be great to have one central unit doing all of the DSP stuff necessary for these new speakers as well as having the potential to import extra profiles for whatever other Axiom speakers are in the system. A processor that's fully aware of the performance characteristics of every speaker that's connected to it. I know, I ramble a bit.

Besides my unwelcome opinions on how you can cater to me, I do want to say that I like the grills on the new speaker, and it's nice to see some outriggers after people have so often requested them. Will the outriggers be made available for the other floorstanders?


The outriggers will be available as an option for the M80. Depending on demand we will look at a version for the M60/M50. Before we can do this we need to establish final pricing which is in the works.

The DSPs can be factory updated if the programming changes in the future. Once the 2-channel version is released it could be purchased for an M60, for instance, and if you wanted to upgrade to M80s at a later date the DSP can be changed to work with the new speakers. I investigated a number of field programmable techniques and all of them were buggy to some extent and added significant cost to the DSP board that we would have to pass on to you. We also prefer to actually measure the unit after reprogramming to make sure the update was successful.

The topic of a pre/pro is something that has been discussed internally a number of times and quickly dismissed. Why? Without using a core platform from one of the major electronics manufacturers we would always be one or two steps behind the times. For a small company to design a custom pre-pro, along with all the licensing requirements, it either impossible or the end product is years late to the game, obsolete out of the box and VERY expensive. I have witnessed this on a number of occasions. If we did use a core platform there is still the matter of integrating custom audio DSP code into the system and development tools for this purpose are very limited and very costly. At that point you would end up with a rebadged model from someone else which we would have to charge much more money for.
Posted by: casey01

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/15/12 09:03 AM

You are sure right about the idea of how difficult it is for a small company to develop its own Pre-Pro. All one has to do is look at Outlaw Audio and they have been around for awhile. In the last three years TWO cancellations of potential Pre-Pro introductions that they felt, in the end, weren't good enough and a third(978) announced over a year ago that still hasn't seen the light of day. As we all know, three years in the CE industry technologically is a lifetime.

Given what has happened here, even pretty loyal customers of Outlaw like myself who has purchased some of their equipment over the years, is getting pretty skeptical of anything materializing. I can't help but be reminded that there has been a lot of mergers and acquisitions in the consumer electronics industry recently and just maybe they might be next on the list. Best to stick with what you do best.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/15/12 10:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Lampshade
How many 2 channel nuts do we know on the forum?


I have money set aside for a pair of stereo speakers... I don't think im a "nut" though. I am sure that there are others on the forum who still enjoy the prehistoric 2 channel music thing.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/15/12 10:29 AM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
For a small company to design a custom pre-pro, along with all the licensing requirements, it either impossible or the end product is years late to the game, obsolete out of the box and VERY expensive.


Outlaw 978 anyone? (Coming soon) for the last few years......
Posted by: bwallen77

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/15/12 10:54 AM

It appears there will at least be an update next week from PeterT on the 978. We'll see what he says.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/15/12 11:01 AM

Andrew:
Is it too early to ask for specs? I'm kind of curious about bass extension and efficiency..i.e., how "serious" an amp is needed for the rear drivers? Do the rear drivers operate at a 1-1 volume/power ratio to the front drivers, or less so, having more modest amp requirements?

If it's too early for this info, just tell me to shut up! smile
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/15/12 11:18 AM

I have 2, 2 channel systems.

lampshade=nut
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/15/12 11:20 AM

I also have 2 2channel systems, if you count the Audiobytes in my dining room.

And the M50s that aren't hooked up in the kid's playroom/my wife's craft room.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/15/12 12:29 PM

I love two-channel. I don't know what "counts", though. If a computer with a receiver and speakers counts, we have 5, including my office.

Pistachio.

Mark, I think Andrew said the amps have to all be the same to accommodate the DSP.
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/15/12 01:04 PM

This is all quite interesting and i too am of the crowd that did not prefer dipole sound, finding it almost distracting, too diffuse and imprecise. The claim that this is different must simply be experienced.

We'll be back in Ontario this summer and are setting up for a trip to Bracebridge for a day at least. I may have to take a few hours diversion further east and stop in for a listen, assuming the new speaker has been tweaked sufficiently for a "scathing" reviewer!

{insert evil laugh now}
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/15/12 03:43 PM

{evil laugh}
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/15/12 04:33 PM

{inimical guffaw}
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/16/12 12:10 AM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
The DSPs can be factory updated if the programming changes in the future. Once the 2-channel version is released it could be purchased for an M60, for instance, and if you wanted to upgrade to M80s at a later date the DSP can be changed to work with the new speakers. I investigated a number of field programmable techniques and all of them were buggy to some extent and added significant cost to the DSP board that we would have to pass on to you. We also prefer to actually measure the unit after reprogramming to make sure the update was successful.

The topic of a pre/pro is something that has been discussed internally a number of times and quickly dismissed. Why? Without using a core platform from one of the major electronics manufacturers we would always be one or two steps behind the times. For a small company to design a custom pre-pro, along with all the licensing requirements, it either impossible or the end product is years late to the game, obsolete out of the box and VERY expensive. I have witnessed this on a number of occasions. If we did use a core platform there is still the matter of integrating custom audio DSP code into the system and development tools for this purpose are very limited and very costly. At that point you would end up with a rebadged model from someone else which we would have to charge much more money for.


Thanks for the response, Andrew. That's good to know units can be sent in for updates if tweaks to the code prove worthwhile. It would, of course, be more convenient for the end user to be able to update from home, but I'm against adding to the up-front cost, too, and I see what you're saying about wanting to measure post-update to be sure it's all operating correctly.

I also totally understand what you're saying about trying to release a pre-pro. While I think there's room for a revolution in the pre-pro space, it would be very risky for a smaller company, and perhaps it should be left to the big boys.

Excuse me as I daydream a little.... I'd like to see Google work on an OS for home theater components, starting with receivers and pre-pros. Any loudspeaker company that wants to should be able to offer plug-in code that improves the performance of their speakers. It would be really cool if it was flexible enough to be able to do what your new DSPs will do. What would be even cooler is if people could assemble their own pre-pros out of pieces, like how people assemble their own PCs. Yeah, the market would have to be much bigger, and manufacturers would have to submit to a lot more standards. I did say I was daydreaming.

I actually think OPPO could make a decent attempt at a pre-pro. Maybe if enough internet direct companies got together and pooled their resources something like this could come about.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/16/12 06:42 AM

Steve whipped up a drawing for us that I thought might help show the angled back that delineates a left and right speaker a little bit more clearly:



Here's the photo again for reference, so you can see how subtle the angle is when you're looking:


Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/16/12 07:36 AM

for people that like lots of toe in, that angle should open up even more. smile
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/16/12 10:11 AM

Is there a taper to the top leading edge? That pic looks like there is, but other pics do not show that.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/16/12 12:51 PM

Originally Posted By: SirQuack
for people that like lots of toe in, that angle should open up even more. smile

I wonder if toe in is going to have a larger effect on the sound field because of the extra rear facing speakers.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/16/12 12:52 PM

With the rear-facing drivers, it's now called "heel out".
Posted by: Ian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/16/12 05:23 PM

The top leading edge is the same on the new speaker as it is on the other models in the line.

As for “heeling out” the speakers, I am a big advocate of trying different things like this in your room. There is no cast in stone position down to this sort of detail that is common to all rooms so playing around a bit is always a good idea; kind of fun to do too.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/16/12 05:36 PM

Well, unfortunately, I'm out. I just couldn't even look at anything in my house with a 97.7 degree angle. Also, it would hurt to keep my head at 7.7 degrees while listening.

Mondrian and Mies are writhing in their graves.

OK, I'm just jealous that SBrown is getting #'s 001 and 002. (Send him 001 and 004. See if he notices.)
Posted by: Ian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/16/12 05:44 PM

It will actually be 1R and 1L since these are mirrored pairs.
Posted by: Ian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 09:55 AM

I have been working out the final pricing for everything over the past few days and here it is:

I will start with the DSP boxes on their own. Though the DSP box is included with the new “yet-to-be-named speaker”, as the system will not work without it, we will also be making these DSP boxes available for the M80 v3 and the M80/VP180 v3 combination (and soon to follow for the M60 and M60/VP160). The addition of the DSP box to these models allows us to make finer adjustments to the family of curves than what’s possible with only the passive crossover. It makes a noticeable - though don’t expect dramatic - improvement to these models. For a pair of speakers this can be achieved using a single broadband DSP board in the box.

For the versions that controls the centre channel also there needs to be two broadband DSP boards in the box. These DSP boxes are factory reprogrammable and we will have a program available to do this in order for you to get updates or to change from one speaker model to another.

These DSP boxes will sell for $880 for the single board version capable of controlling one pair of either M80 v3 or M60 v3.

The dual board version for controlling your centre channel and front channels will sell for $1,190. These will be available for shipping on June 15.

We will be offering a pre-purchase price of $690 for the single board version and $940 for the dual board version from now until mid-May.

The new “yet-to-be-named speaker” comes with the dual board version of the DSP. If you are using these speakers as part of a system and wish to have your VP180 or VP160 also utilize your DSP box we will have this available as an option. This box would include three DSP boards and would cost an extra $310.

Essentially our new Linear Field Radiating Omnidirectional speakers are pretty close to two M80s in each cabinet. This new “yet-to-be-named speaker” model will sell for $3,760 which includes the pair of speakers and the dual board DSP box. They will be ready to ship on June 15.

We are going to do a 2-tier pre-purchase promotion on this new model. From now until April 15 you can pre-purchase them for $2,790. Additionally the first 10 pair sold will have special rear labels that are serialized with a straightforward 1 to 10 (R&L) and be signed by Andrew and myself. From April 16 to May 15 the pre-purchase offer will be $2,990.

All the various “Customize Yours” options can be seen at New Speaker. You can also place an order from this page.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 10:31 AM

Ian, when you say M80v3, do you specifically mean v3 models only? I assume the curves are different for earlier M80s, so it IS v3 only, but I'd like to get some clarification on that.
Posted by: Ian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 10:50 AM

Yes, the code is for the M80 v3 only. The move from v2 to v3 was a substantial change which would make the code incompatible.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 11:34 AM


When will the specs be listed?
Posted by: JBall

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 12:05 PM

So for current M80/60v3 owners, do we need to remove the crossovers when using this DSP? Does the DSP have active crossovers in it?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 12:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Ian
signed by Andrew and myself.

God help you if your handwriting looks like mine!

"Amie! I messed this one up, too! Have 'em make six more, will 'ya? I'll get it right, I promise!"
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 12:08 PM

I notice under "options" you can get a different tweeter....
Posted by: Wid

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 12:23 PM


Woofers too.
Posted by: avjunkee

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 01:01 PM

It doesn't appear that the tweeters and drivers themselves are any different, just the fact that they are die cast.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 01:46 PM

Can we have some nice pictures of standard versus die cast?
Posted by: Steve H

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 01:51 PM

Originally Posted By: CV
Can we have some nice pictures of standard versus die cast?


I will be taking some pictures next week for the options menu. I'll be sure to get some posted here.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 01:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Steve H
Originally Posted By: CV
Can we have some nice pictures of standard versus die cast?


I will be taking some pictures next week for the options menu. I'll be sure to get some posted here.


Thanks!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 01:57 PM

so, am i the first person to order/pay for a pair? taking 1k$ for pre orders was enought to make me a boyer Ian...!
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 02:05 PM

You've beat me. I'll order once I can figure out a payment plan and get more details on the customization options.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 02:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Wid

When will the specs be listed?


What were you interested in?
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 02:54 PM

Originally Posted By: JBall
So for current M80/60v3 owners, do we need to remove the crossovers when using this DSP? Does the DSP have active crossovers in it?


No, you don't need to modify the speaker in any way. Simply insert the DSP between your pre/processor and amp and you're good to go. The new speaker also has passive crossovers inside.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 03:00 PM


Power handling, weight, anything ya got smile
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 03:56 PM

the amps i use with my m60's are rated for 250w@8ohms and 500w@4ohms, i am sure these amps will work fine with that kind of power.... i plan on using the same amps with these...

Andrew, what is the nominal impedance at each terminal?
Posted by: solarrdadd

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 08:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
Originally Posted By: JBall
So for current M80/60v3 owners, do we need to remove the crossovers when using this DSP? Does the DSP have active crossovers in it?


No, you don't need to modify the speaker in any way. Simply insert the DSP between your pre/processor and amp and you're good to go. The new speaker also has passive crossovers inside.


I use XLR interconnects between my pre-amp and power amp. Will the DSP box support both XLR & RCA interconnects?
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 08:19 PM

Originally Posted By: solarrdadd
Originally Posted By: Andrew
Originally Posted By: JBall
So for current M80/60v3 owners, do we need to remove the crossovers when using this DSP? Does the DSP have active crossovers in it?


No, you don't need to modify the speaker in any way. Simply insert the DSP between your pre/processor and amp and you're good to go. The new speaker also has passive crossovers inside.


I use XLR interconnects between my pre-amp and power amp. Will the DSP box support both XLR & RCA interconnects?


Yes it will! smile
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 09:09 PM

Ian or Andrew, specifically what does the DSP do; i.e., what audio factors does it affect and how does this contribute to the omni-directionality?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 09:15 PM

Something tells me you're not getting an answer to that one, John.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 09:16 PM

John, just give them money.. Then they will send you a pair and you can enjoy.

But... You will have to join the dark side, and go with outboard amps..... laugh
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 09:28 PM

If so that would be very disappointing, Ken. Any technically competent competitor would have no difficulty reverse-engineering this, while interested audio enthusiasts and/or prospective purchasers would be left in the dark.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 09:29 PM

Originally Posted By: JohnK
Ian or Andrew, specifically what does the DSP do; i.e., what audio factors does it affect and how does this contribute to the omni-directionality?


All I will say regarding the details of the DSP are that there are a number of serious problems with bipoles that give them a similar sonic characteristic. If you dig up reviews of these types of products you'll see what I'm talking about. The DSP addresses these problems and allows us to achieve all of the benefits of a bipole without the trade-offs normally associated them. Even if you made detailed measurements of the DSP transfer functions, it would not give away everything we are doing with the system.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 09:40 PM

Broke down and ordered, but no "Rosewood" because I wanted them to match and also you could say "stealth mode" looking.

Also need to get in touch for the center(160) matching for the DSP. This is making me get into my tunes even more, can't wait Axiom crew!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 09:47 PM

SBrown, i will call Brent/JC, and ask them to give you the #1 paired set.. Since you committed before i did.


BTW, any pictures from the show today?
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 10:04 PM

np dakkon, thanks!
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 10:19 PM

Why don't you each get a #1 and a #2.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 10:52 PM

That would be a plan, and a good story as well.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 11:01 PM

yeah... "Some Darn Canadian has my other speaker, Worst Fedex delivery dude EVER!"......
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 11:18 PM

Well, it certainly is good sharing and very Axiomoe like. Congratulations on your new speakers!




I hate you smile
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 11:26 PM

Oh, your an American? no deal then....! J/K My wife has both citizenships, so I'm half 'n half.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/17/12 11:46 PM

Do we get outriggers thrown in too? I need a pair for the M80's also..............uuuummmmm what else???
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 12:41 AM

Ian, or Andrew,

What is the difference between the die cast drivers, and the regular stamped drivers... I understand the manufacturing differences, is there a SQ difference?
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 12:53 AM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
What is the difference between the die cast drivers, and the regular stamped drivers... I understand the manufacturing differences, is there a SQ difference?


I'm not Ian, but I've been informed by him that there's no sonic difference.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 01:00 AM

What is the point then? are there any photos available of the die cast drivers?

Thanks for the answer CV
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 01:08 AM

Steve H said he would be adding pictures of the die cast drivers.

The point is the same as the one for bi-wire inputs, I suppose. To appease a certain segment of the market. I wonder if they'll do the same thing with crossover parts at some point.
Posted by: Jc

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 08:50 AM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
Ian, or Andrew,

What is the difference between the die cast drivers, and the regular stamped drivers... I understand the manufacturing differences, is there a SQ difference?


Here is Andrew's reply from another post . . .

Originally Posted By: Andrew

ALL of our drivers are designed and manufactured in-house. This is the only way to have full control over performance and quality. Our subwoofer baskets are already die-cast. The reasoning for a die-cast option for the other drivers is more perception than anything else. Some manufacturers use very thin-walled stamped steel woofer baskets that can resonate at some frequencies. However, the standard Axiom baskets are made from very heavy gauge steel and do not "ring". You can expect identical performance from either the standard or die-cast option. smile

Posted by: JBall

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 10:10 AM

Originally Posted By: Jc
Originally Posted By: dakkon
Ian, or Andrew,

What is the difference between the die cast drivers, and the regular stamped drivers... I understand the manufacturing differences, is there a SQ difference?


Here is Andrew's reply from another post . . .

Originally Posted By: Andrew

ALL of our drivers are designed and manufactured in-house. This is the only way to have full control over performance and quality. Our subwoofer baskets are already die-cast. The reasoning for a die-cast option for the other drivers is more perception than anything else. Some manufacturers use very thin-walled stamped steel woofer baskets that can resonate at some frequencies. However, the standard Axiom baskets are made from very heavy gauge steel and do not "ring". You can expect identical performance from either the standard or die-cast option. smile




I have a hard time believing this. All the best speakers in the world use Cast baskets and its not b/c of marketing.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 10:14 AM


Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 10:25 AM

Originally Posted By: JBall

I have a hard time believing this. All the best speakers in the world use Cast baskets and its not b/c of marketing.


I would wager that very few people have ever performed a controlled comparison of the two. It's pretty much impossible if you don't build drivers in-house and have an anechoic chamber to precisely match the drivers being compared. The test then needs to be performed blind, precisely level matched, and repeated multiple times to compensate for different speaker positions.
Posted by: JBall

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 10:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
Originally Posted By: JBall

I have a hard time believing this. All the best speakers in the world use Cast baskets and its not b/c of marketing.


I would wager that very few people have ever performed a controlled comparison of the two. It's pretty much impossible if you don't build drivers in-house and have an anechoic chamber to precisely match the drivers being compared. The test then needs to be performed blind, precisely level matched, and repeated multiple times to compensate for different speaker positions.



At nearly $4k / pair cast baskets should be a standard not an option. It's not always just about determining a difference in a blind test. It's a matter of pride in build quality and using the highest quality of parts if you chose to charge such a premium for your speakers. I don't see your competitors fighting so hard to rationalize using better parts. They just do.

It seems odd to me that you would nickle and dime us $120 for such an expensive speaker and not just make it a standard option included in the current price.

The same is true for how you now charge for bi-amping options on your speakers which used to be standard and while your speakers retailed at a lower cost. Now your speakers cost more money and offer less standard options.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 11:22 AM

Originally Posted By: JBall

At nearly $4k / pair cast baskets should be a standard not an option. It's not always just about determining a difference in a blind test. It's a matter of pride in build quality and using the highest quality of parts if you chose to charge such a premium for your speakers. I don't see your competitors fighting so hard to rationalize using better parts. They just do.


I think the difference simply comes down to our philosophy. We feel it's important to offer our customers a choice when it comes to things we have found don't make a difference in sound quality but do require an increase in price. Everyone at Axiom is extremely proud of the products we build and if we felt that die-cast drivers equated to better quality, you can be sure they would be in all of our models. We should also remember that these "nearly $4k" speakers include a serious piece of electronics which on it's own is very costly to produce.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 11:33 AM

Originally Posted By: JBall
It's a matter of pride in build quality and using the highest quality of parts if you chose to charge such a premium for your speakers. I don't see your competitors fighting so hard to rationalize using better parts. They just do.

And the competitors would also likely charge $2,000 more.

So, what's your point?

Axiom offers the option. If you want it, buy it. If you don't, you have the opportunity to save some money off something they say won't affect the sound.

Ditto regarding the bi-amping option. Most people have no use for it, or use the terminals in an incorrect (and ineffective) way.
Posted by: JBall

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 11:50 AM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
Originally Posted By: JBall

At nearly $4k / pair cast baskets should be a standard not an option. It's not always just about determining a difference in a blind test. It's a matter of pride in build quality and using the highest quality of parts if you chose to charge such a premium for your speakers. I don't see your competitors fighting so hard to rationalize using better parts. They just do.


I think the difference simply comes down to our philosophy. We feel it's important to offer our customers a choice when it comes to things we have found don't make a difference in sound quality but do require an increase in price. Everyone at Axiom is extremely proud of the products we build and if we felt that die-cast drivers equated to better quality, you can be sure they would be in all of our models. We should also remember that these "nearly $4k" speakers include a serious piece of electronics which on it's own is very costly to produce.


Fair enough Andrew, I don't want to be combative with you but you guys do seem to go against the grain quite often. I've never seen expensive speakers like these use stamped baskets. In pro audio, its a standard to use cast. They are stiffer, and stronger. I know for a fact all Paradigm, PSB and Harman speakers at this price and even cheaper use cast baskets. Those are all companies that cherish science and DBT testing too so I know it's not just marketing. To say there is "No difference" in these parts, certainly contradicts and almost mocks your competitors science.
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 11:52 AM

This thread was very enjoyable for me. Please don't let it come crashing down in a flame war. We are not there yet, everyone has been civil, but I can feel the tension building.

JBall, you want Axiom to use different parts without charging the customer extra. Understood.

Axiom will make design and marketing decisions. Consumers will make money spending decisions. The market will prevail.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 11:53 AM

As Andrew rightly points out, these are more than just speakers since there is some rather expensive electronics involved and the 'under $4K' price tag is certainly not unreasonable...(I don't know if real wood finish is standard or not). I do, in fact, understand where JBall is coming from, most higher end driver manufacturers do have diecast baskets vs stamped, which is less expensive to manufacture. Whether there's any difference sound-wise between a quality stamped basket vs die-cast, I couldn't say having not compared two similar products directly, but I would imagine a thin gauge basket would no doubt cause some problems. I've seen a few cast-plastic baskets on some drivers as well, not sure of the manufacturer however. Anyway, for Axiom to make a cast basket on a more limited series of speakers would definitely push the price up some and if it weren't reflected in a better quality sounding product, I doubt they would add that cost to the project.
Posted by: JBall

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 12:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Adrian
As Andrew rightly points out, these are more than just speakers since there is some rather expensive electronics involved and the 'under $4K' price tag is certainly not unreasonable...(I don't know if real wood finish is standard or not). I do, in fact, understand where JBall is coming from, most higher end driver manufacturers do have diecast baskets vs stamped, which is less expensive to manufacture. Whether there's any difference sound-wise between a quality stamped basket vs die-cast, I couldn't say having not compared two similar products directly, but I would imagine a thin gauge basket would no doubt cause some problems. I've seen a few cast-plastic baskets on some drivers as well, not sure of the manufacturer however. Anyway, for Axiom to make a cast basket on a more limited series of speakers would definitely push the price up some and if it weren't reflected in a better quality sounding product, I doubt they would add that cost to the project.


To me, when you reach a certain price point in anything in life, you expect the best quality of parts used. For example, I pay a little extra for my drinking glasses and plates to have them made in USA and not risk eating off China lead paint. It's worth the extra cost for safety reasons even though the food will taste the same on both plates.

When I buy a car, I hate the cheap plastic materials inside so I usually look at alternative options with better build quality. Prime example, take a look at the inside of a Nissan or Infiniti car vs that of an Audi. While both competitors may be of similar driving experience and features, I spend a little more and get something that I feel is more solidly constructed.

Not trying to start a flame war here but come on guys, we are approaching $4k/pair for 2 speakers! I would certainly want the best parts used and also rounded cabinets too. But that's just me and I apologize for offending any die-hard Axiom fans that don't see that. As others said here, the free market will decide the success of this product.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 12:50 PM

JBall, i understand where you are coming from..

However, everyone that works for axiom and is on the board, as well as Brent and JC on the phone, have been very honest with me.. Also, you hear copious amounts of stories, of Brent and JC telling people that they don't need something, that a less expensive product would work perfectly well in their environment... I dont know of many other companies downselling products...? My point being, if i may go out on a limb, Ians philosophy seems to be,( be completely honest with every and all customer,and offer a product at a good value.)


On your quality concern.. If Andrew said they did tests in the anabolic chamber, then i take him at his word.. Heck, i bought a pair yesterday before any results from the show were out... Also, JBall i dont know how familiar you are with the physics of metals, but if you use a heavy gauge steel, and introduce bends into that steel.. That pieces of "stamped" steel can be EVERY bit as strong as cast steel, if the design is a good.... Also, cast steel isn't the holy grail, using forged steel and then machining is the absolute best way to go, due to the atomic lattice work being consistant throughout the of the piece of metal (if you want more info on this google it).... Cast just adds mass, which would lower the resonant frequency but that is about it, but remember the stamped piece can be as stiff as the cast piece, for less money due to less metal being used to achieve the same result...


Also, if Axiom wanted to, they could have included the cast+realwood finish to include rosewood standard... However, then we would be talking about a 5,500$ or so speaker for options that some people just may not care about.. When i ordered mine, i asked JC to leave the finish blank, as well as the grill cloth as i really dont know what i want to do there (and i have several months to decide smile )... i may go with the standard black oak finish, but the option is open for me to decide what finish i want depending on how much i spend...


On a completely different side note.. JBall, you bring up premium speakers, and the quality of their drivers as compared to the drivers that Axoim uses. I have a pair of B&W CM1's, and a CM center.. at about 1,000$ a pair for the CM1's and about 700$ for the center... My axioms sound every bit as good as the B&W's for a fraction of the cost.... do the B&W's use cast drivers... I don't know, probably. But to me they aren't Way Way better... or i would have bought a pair of 802D's, or a pair of 800D's if i could find a good catch on Audigon.. Right now a pair of 802D's go for about 8k$ on audiogon... For 8k$ at axiom you could easily buy the new stereo speakers+ a pair of ep 600's or 800's and have a system that would BLOW away the 802's as well as the 800's.. oh, and that is comparing used B&W prices to new Axiom prices, if you compair new-new... then there really isn't any comparison...


With all that being said JBall, you bring up valid points. and i dont want you to take any of my comments personal, i am just presenting a different perspective.
Posted by: JBall

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 01:08 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
JBall, i understand where you are coming from..

However, everyone that works for axiom and is on the board, as well as Brent and JC on the phone, have been very honest with me.. Also, you hear copious amounts of stories, of Brent and JC telling people that they don't need something, that a less expensive product would work perfectly well in their environment... I dont know of many other companies downselling products...? My point being, if i may go out on a limb, Ians philosophy seems to be,( be completely honest with every and all customer,and offer a product at a good value.)


On your quality concern.. If Andrew said they did tests in the anabolic chamber, then i take him at his word.. Heck, i bought a pair yesterday before any results from the show were out... Also, JBall i dont know how familiar you are with the physics of metals, but if you use a heavy gauge steel, and introduce bends into that steel.. That pieces of "stamped" steel can be EVERY bit as strong as cast steel, if the design is a good.... Also, cast steel isn't the holy grail, using forged steel and then machining is the absolute best way to go, due to the atomic lattice work being consistant throughout the of the piece of metal (if you want more info on this google it).... Cast just adds mass, which would lower the resonant frequency but that is about it, but remember the stamped piece can be as stiff as the cast piece, for less money due to less metal being used to achieve the same result...


Also, if Axiom wanted to, they could have included the cast+realwood finish to include rosewood standard... However, then we would be talking about a 5,500$ or so speaker for options that some people just may not care about.. When i ordered mine, i asked JC to leave the finish blank, as well as the grill cloth as i really dont know what i want to do there (and i have several months to decide smile )... i may go with the standard black oak finish, but the option is open for me to decide what finish i want depending on how much i spend...


On a completely different side note.. JBall, you bring up premium speakers, and the quality of their drivers as compared to the drivers that Axoim uses. I have a pair of B&W CM1's, and a CM center.. at about 1,000$ a pair for the CM1's and about 700$ for the center... My axioms sound every bit as good as the B&W's for a fraction of the cost.... do the B&W's use cast drivers... I don't know, probably. But to me they aren't Way Way better... or i would have bought a pair of 802D's, or a pair of 800D's if i could find a good catch on Audigon.. Right now a pair of 802D's go for about 8k$ on audiogon... For 8k$ at axiom you could easily buy the new stereo speakers+ a pair of ep 600's or 800's and have a system that would BLOW away the 802's as well as the 800's.. oh, and that is comparing used B&W prices to new Axiom prices, if you compair new-new... then there really isn't any comparison...


With all that being said JBall, you bring up valid points. and i dont want you to take any of my comments personal, i am just presenting a different perspective.


Thanks Dakkon for a thoughtful post. If what you are saying is true about stamped steel vs cast, then why is virtually EVERY good quality subwoofer drive constructed of cast instead of thick stamped steel? Also cast is non magnetic so it seems to me its more efficient so its not wasting magnet strength.

Again $120 difference in cost to upgrade to the better drivers IMO should be standard at this price point. That cost is likely 1/2 to Axiom and there seems to be a good margin already in this product as is.

Calling Cast baskets "audio jewelery" again seems very insulting to competitors that clearly see them as an advantage in their designs, else they wouldn't use them.

This link shows some of the advantages of die-cast vs stamped process, one being, tighter tolerances, another being easier to forge complex shapes and durability and ability to draw away heat more effectively.

http://www.diecasting.org/faq/
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 01:22 PM

Originally Posted By: JBall


Again $120 difference in cost to upgrade to the better drivers IMO should be standard at this price point. That cost is likely 1/2 to Axiom and there seems to be a good margin already in this product as is.


I think this is what Andrew was getting at, the perception of "better" without scientific proof, or a double blind test to prove you can "hear" a difference, how would one quantify better?

the argument that the more expensive companies use it so it "must" be better doesn't always hold true... a perfect example, is Ferrari... Heck, they used some off the shelf Ford parts for the 348/355....

I think the option is there, and at minimal cost.. i mean, 100 bucks.. That's a dinner out with some friends. For me, if i decide to go with cast, i am not concerned with the 120$.. but that is just me. Also, depending on how long you keep the speakers... i have had my M60's for going on 7 years... if you amortize the 120$ over 7 years, if you only keep them for 7 years.... thats 20$ a year, or 1.4$ a week, thats much less than a gallon of gas nowadays laugh

To my orignal point, i think if there was an audible difference, they would have used the cast in the new speakers, especially since the new speaker is their flagship speaker.....

On a side note, if they hadn't offered the cast option would we be having this conversation? i would postulate not....
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 02:06 PM

I want billet forged baskets, machined out of solid T6061 AL.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 02:46 PM

Concerning further upgrades, I'm pleased with what my system now offers with 2 sets of M22 mains, VP160 + M2 for center, EP350 for sub. My only future planned upgrade with be 3 QS8's. 2 sooner, 1 later, for a 6.1 system. That'll supply about all the audio my living room can handle. Then later, some day, I'll have a big screen in the small home theater room that I'll be building. One thing at a time.

I'm hoping by then, 9-10 foot oled screens will be available. My only problem with that is no-where decent to put the speakers. That's why I wanted an AT projection screen. It would be nice if oled screens could someday be used in this fashion, and be available in 2.40:1 format.
Posted by: Ian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 03:45 PM

JBall,

A lot of what you are pondering comes down to distribution and manufacturing, not marketing. If we used a dealer distribution model or we did not manufacture our own drivers, and pretty much every single component in our products, then we would not have the ability to offer our customers a choice with things like die cast baskets, bi-wiring, custom coloured grilles, or hundreds of finishes. We would need to make a decision in advance as to what most customers would want at any given price point and that would be it. It is not a swipe at our competitors to offer these things as options; it is just something we can do because we do our own manufacturing and our own distribution.
Posted by: solarrdadd

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 04:15 PM

I've also never seen a speaker company with a members forum where the President of the company regularly and openly corresponds to members about products and concern. Only other place I've seen like that is Emotiva.

That's why I own all Axiom speakers and Emotiva amps. I trust their people and their products; hell, I've pit up a couple post in this forum that Ian has responded to personally and yes, that means a lot to me.

I've been to some of the more expensive speaker sites and other than a press release (usually put out by a P.R. Group) not either seen correspondence from the company owners direct to customers or forum members about the products or better food at the next company/customer get together!

Axiom (Emotiva too) demonstrate time and time again that they are a true customer driven company. I dont know how involved the more expensive companies are with their customer in relation to what kind of products they put out. So it's clear, those companies do put out good products; but so does Axiom.

Difference is I can email or post to the president and his wife about almost anything and you know what, they respond.

I also don't build speakers; but I sure do enjoy listening to them. I leave the building to people who know what they are doing, have pit out good product time and time again, really listen to their customer base, openly communicate with said customers and invite us to their place of business regularly..

So if the new flagship speakers come with wicker baskets in them, I have no doubt that for their product, our product it was the best choice to put out the best product for us, the paying customer of yesterday, today and tomorrow; not simply because that's what all the other 'big guys' are doing.
Posted by: JBall

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 04:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Ian
JBall,

A lot of what you are pondering comes down to distribution and manufacturing, not marketing. If we used a dealer distribution model or we did not manufacture our own drivers, and pretty much every single component in our products, then we would not have the ability to offer our customers a choice with things like die cast baskets, bi-wiring, custom coloured grilles, or hundreds of finishes. We would need to make a decision in advance as to what most customers would want at any given price point and that would be it. It is not a swipe at our competitors to offer these things as options; it is just something we can do because we do our own manufacturing and our own distribution.



thanks for the explanation Ian. I agree it's great the manufacturer responds directly to us here. very cool.

To add one final point, Paradigm makes all their own drivers and assembles their products in Canada. Most of their drivers are cast baskets for what it's worth starting at speakers of about $600/pair.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 04:43 PM

Originally Posted By: solarrdadd

I've also never seen a speaker company with a members forum where the President of the company regularly and openly corresponds to members about products and concern. Only other place I've seen like that is Emotiva.

AV123?

Actually that Axiom representatives seldom wade into the fray is a big plus IMO.


Originally Posted By: Ian

A lot of what you are pondering comes down to distribution and manufacturing, not marketing.

While this makes perfect sense, to the customer it is mainly marketing which is why I think issues like this keep cropping up. People are conditioned through conventional wisdom that certain things or designs are a necessity in certain products. So when Axiom deviates from this conventional wisdom it becomes a marketing issue to re-educate the customer to what really matters . . . how the speakers sound as a whole . . . and not the necessarily the design and individual components they are made from.

I also think that the higher the price (read high end) a product the more people expect it to have certain characteristics so when something deviates from what they expect they suffer a lot of cognitive dissonance based on what the market has told them made even worse if they’ve made purchasing decisions based on the conventional wisdom. This makes the re-education of the customer all the more important and difficult if not impossible, at least until third party “experts” (reviewers) chime in and even then the true believers will discount the reviews as being biased for various reasons.
Posted by: solarrdadd

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 05:02 PM

Originally Posted By: grunt
Originally Posted By: solarrdadd

I've also never seen a speaker company with a members forum where the President of the company regularly and openly corresponds to members about products and concern. Only other place I've seen like that is Emotiva.

AV123?

[b]Actually that Axiom representatives seldom wade into the fray is a big plus IMO.
[/b
]

Originally Posted By: Ian

A lot of what you are pondering comes down to distribution and manufacturing, not marketing.

While this makes perfect sense, to the customer it is mainly marketing which is why I think issues like this keep cropping up. People are conditioned through conventional wisdom that certain things or designs are a necessity in certain products. So when Axiom deviates from this conventional wisdom it becomes a marketing issue to re-educate the customer to what really matters . . . how the speakers sound as a whole . . . and not the necessarily the design and individual components they are made from.

I also think that the higher the price (read high end) a product the more people expect it to have certain characteristics so when something deviates from what they expect they suffer a lot of cognitive dissonance based on what the market has told them made even worse if they’ve made purchasing decisions based on the conventional wisdom. This makes the re-education of the customer all the more important and difficult if not impossible, at least until third party “experts” (reviewers) chime in and even then the true believers will discount the reviews as being biased for various reasons.


I meant that they are not invisible or inaccessible to us. Ian and his wife have posted in this thread lots of great information which has been very relevant and important. I do agree that they for the most part are not meddlesome per say in the forum.

It's nice to see them post and know that they actually exist; I have no idea who the CFO for my bank is and that person or persons have never directly contacted us a customers of the bank (other than to tell us about higher fees) however I do know who the president of my speaker company is; and he communicates directly with us for much more than to tell us the cost of speakers are going up.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 05:25 PM

JB, you seem to be hung up on a single aspect of the speaker's construction. If you understand Axiom's design philosophy, you should understand that they do not tend to spend money on components that make no audible difference. They also don't base their decisions on what "everyone else" in the market offers. They are giving "discerning" consumers the explicit choice of spending more on select components so they can have peac of mind.

Big picture-wise, I think more consumers will be better served by Axiom's decision to make these costlier components an upgrade option than to have them standard. You can't please everyone, though.
Posted by: Ian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 05:38 PM

JBall,

I don’t want to speak for Paradigm in any way but I can say from my own experience that offering a large number of personalized options without a direct to end user distribution model would be fraught with insurmountable problems. On top of this it is no easy task to set up your manufacturing process to deal with offering lots of options, and this statement is from direct experience also.

We will be offering cast baskets as an option starting with the M2. This would allow the customer to choose die cast woofer baskets, for an extra $15 per pair, on a model that sells for $328 if they so desire. It’s part of our philosophy of offering the most options we can to our customers. Since we launched "Customize Yours" a few years ago the response has been overwhelmingly positive. We also use this feedback to decide what new customized features are things people would want us to offer.
Posted by: JBall

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 05:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Ian
JBall,

I don’t want to speak for Paradigm in any way but I can say from my own experience that offering a large number of personalized options without a direct to end user distribution model would be fraught with insurmountable problems. On top of this it is no easy task to set up your manufacturing process to deal with offering lots of options, and this statement is from direct experience also.

We will be offering cast baskets as an option starting with the M2. This would allow the customer to choose die cast woofer baskets, for an extra $15 per pair, on a model that sells for $328 if they so desire. It’s part of our philosophy of offering the most options we can to our customers. Since we launched "Customize Yours" a few years ago the response has been overwhelmingly positive. We also use this feedback to decide what new customized features are things people would want us to offer.


that's a fair deal, thanks.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 08:10 PM

Originally Posted By: grunt
Originally Posted By: solarrdadd

I've also never seen a speaker company with a members forum where the President of the company regularly and openly corresponds to members about products and concern. Only other place I've seen like that is Emotiva.

AV123?



From my understanding the President of AV123 was active on the forum to defraud people out of money for products that he had no intention of making..... I would put Ian in the same group as said individual....
Posted by: grunt

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 08:20 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon

From my understanding the President of AV123 was active on the forum to defraud people out of money for products that he had no intention of making..... I would put Ian in the same group as said individual....

You might put Ian in that group but I wouldn’t, and if you quoted the rest of the comment you wouldn't have missed that context. wink
Posted by: solarrdadd

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 08:41 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
Originally Posted By: grunt
Originally Posted By: solarrdadd

I've also never seen a speaker company with a members forum where the President of the company regularly and openly corresponds to members about products and concern. Only other place I've seen like that is Emotiva.

AV123?



From my understanding the President of AV123 was active on the forum to defraud people out of money for products that he had no intention of making..... I would put Ian in the same group as said individual....


So, your calling Ian a fraud and a potential thief, huh? You are obviously prepared to back that up with some facts for us, right? Facts, not hearsay, right?

Of course I don't believe a word of what your saying, but again, since you brought it up, show and prove time.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 08:43 PM

Originally Posted By: solarrdadd
Originally Posted By: dakkon
Originally Posted By: grunt
Originally Posted By: solarrdadd

I've also never seen a speaker company with a members forum where the President of the company regularly and openly corresponds to members about products and concern. Only other place I've seen like that is Emotiva.

AV123?



From my understanding the President of AV123 was active on the forum to defraud people out of money for products that he had no intention of making..... I would put Ian in the same group as said individual....


So, your calling Ian a fraud and a potential thief, huh? You are obviously prepared to back that up with some facts for us, right? Facts, not hearsay, right?

Of course I don't believe a word of what your saying, but again, since you brought it up, show and prove time.


Relax, its a typo.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 08:52 PM

Quote:

Relax, its a typo.


And a very timely one at that. smirk
Posted by: solarrdadd

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 08:54 PM

Big typo. Let the person speak up for themselves; since they wrote it.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 08:55 PM

Dude. Read in context. Dakkon's already bought some of these things. It's a typo.
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 09:02 PM

oops posted in wrong thread
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 09:06 PM

is pink too? laugh


edit: lucky I mean! Lampy?
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 09:09 PM

She loves the pink but it limits them to the bedroom! I had them in the living room today and they looked silly.
Posted by: bwallen77

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 09:10 PM

Can someone explain this whole die cast thing to me. I recently purchased m80's and didn't see this as an option. Why would I want this? Is it only for looks or would my 80's sound better?
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 09:12 PM

But hey, if the sound incredible with you tubes!
Posted by: grunt

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 09:12 PM

And now for something completely different . . . The Larch:


Posted by: bwallen77

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 09:16 PM

Does Axiom make different logos for the speakers? Maybe metal ones vs the plastic. One came broke( this one went behing the at screenm so didn't care). I also broke one taking it off so I could invert it. A third broke on the ep 800 ic since the logo is right off the carpet and was gently knocked into.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 10:06 PM

BW, the frame(basket)of a driver should be strong enough to hold the active elements in proper position and shouldn't audibly "ring" when attached to the enclosure. If these criteria are satisfied, it doesn't make any difference what the frame is made of or what process was used in manufacturing it. Ian and Andrew have said that the stamped Axiom frames are fine and the die cast version has no audible benefit. There's no good reason, technologically or in practice, to doubt this.

The die cast frame metal is squirted into a form at high temperature and under high pressure. This takes time to form and cool down(as much as 10 minutes each). Stamping gives the metal one bang and that's it; a quicker and less expensive process. Other factors being equal, either process results in entirely satisfactory frames for speaker drivers.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 10:15 PM

Originally Posted By: grunt
Originally Posted By: dakkon

From my understanding the President of AV123 was active on the forum to defraud people out of money for products that he had no intention of making..... I would put Ian in the same group as said individual....

You might put Ian in that group but I wouldn’t, and if you quoted the rest of the comment you wouldn't have missed that context. wink


I think you know my feelings of this company and it's employees as they are quite positive as noted by several posts in this thread alone, i would never intentionally compair Ian to the AV123 president who was fraudulent. In my attempt to contrast the two individuals, i did not proof my post close enough... I would hope you could spot a typo when you see it..

So to Clarify, I would not put Ian in the same group as said individual....

P.S., Sorry for the Typo Ian....
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 10:17 PM

I concer john
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 10:20 PM

Stamped or cast. What's the diff?

As long as I can order my drivers in Easter Baskets in April.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 10:33 PM

Ok,I don't even no where to start here...BUT, I ordered some of the NEW speakers. 1- why do people bash, when they know nothing!
2-When you know nothing-why bash?

3- you bashturds
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 10:49 PM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
Ok,I don't even no where to start here...BUT, I ordered some of the NEW speakers. 1- why do people bash, when they know nothing!
2-When you know nothing-why bash?

3- you bashturds


I wouldn't sweat it to much man... This thread is just like most of the others around here (insert off color funny comment)...

The real question is... Have you ordered the extra amplifiers you will need?

I will need 2 more channels.. However, i cant decide if i want to give my QS8's 250W or 150W, right now they are getting 250W.... My new speakers ARE getting 500W @4ohm each that has already been decided.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 11:09 PM

Hey dakkon,

I am going to get Axioms amps to run the new speakers,Ian said he coming out with the amps with the speakers, sooooo I better get working my butt off. laugh

edit: I was kidding with the bassturds.....maybe!!
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 11:21 PM

Hey Dakkon and Brownie have a little 2 man club now! I heard that the Sequoia D100 membership rings are going to be blinged out more than a NBA Championship ring. Hmm... 2 man club sounds a little weird. Almost as odd as mine and Bob's club (sorry Mark, you live in NH). Nah, you guys are less weird.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 11:28 PM

I hate normal!
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 11:28 PM

Solarrdadd's defense was awesome. He flew off the handle a little but that is ok. He was sticking up for one of us. Getting all belligerent, what a wonderful way to celebrate St. Patrick's day weekend. Here's to you, Solar.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 11:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Lampshade
Hey Dakkon and Brownie have a little 2 man club now! I heard that the Sequoia D100 membership rings are going to be blinged out more than a NBA Championship ring. Hmm... 2 man club sounds a little weird. Almost as odd as mine and Bob's club (sorry Mark, you live in NH). Nah, you guys are less weird.


Call JC/Brent in the morning and give them monies, then you can join to.. it's really not difficult.
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 11:30 PM

Ha ha! I've been looking at them a lot the last few days but wife did not say anything until I moved my M80's to the bedroom. She knows something is up. I am going to tell her I won them in the contest so I may need all of your support (lies)
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 11:34 PM

I told/asked my wife when she had been drinking = win,win.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/18/12 11:35 PM

My standard advice.. (Flowers and chocolates...)


However, as Mark pointed out, this may not be the best advice... But, it's all i got.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/19/12 06:13 AM

I think it was Ken who pointed that out.

I have no advice but to marry a girl who likes beer and doesn't mind me buying tools and toys!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/19/12 06:13 AM

(Although SHE pays all the bills; it would be better to hide purchases if I paid the bills!)
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/19/12 06:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Lampshade
Solarrdadd's defense was awesome. He flew off the handle a little but that is ok. He was sticking up for one of us. Getting all belligerent, what a wonderful way to celebrate St. Patrick's day weekend. Here's to you, Solar.

OK, now those posts make more sense, but shouldn't there have been a fist fight and a couple of black eyes before everyone kissed and made up?
Posted by: Steve H

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/20/12 02:40 PM

Originally Posted By: CV
Can we have some nice pictures of standard versus die cast?


Here are the pictures you've been waiting for.

Stamped Basket:


Die-Cast Basket:

Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/20/12 03:10 PM

At the risk of continuing something...

oooh, pretty....
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/20/12 10:16 PM

Steve, do you have any top down photos by chance?
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/21/12 02:53 AM

Oh, wow, I was surprised to see the new Axiom speaker featured on highdefdigest.com. Nice.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/21/12 05:32 AM

And the eCoustics Article they reference.
Posted by: Steve H

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/21/12 07:34 AM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
Steve, do you have any top down photos by chance?


Are you looking for a shot of the front?
Here is the front of the Die-Cast woofer:

Posted by: Murph

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/21/12 08:33 AM

I'd truly love to have a listen to these. To be honest with myself though, they are priced out of my discretionary spending range for now.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/21/12 09:27 AM

You're in Canadia, right? It should be totally driveable to go to the factory and listen. Maybe even every day!

Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/21/12 09:45 AM

I've never heard of Canadia. Is it somewhere near Canada. (Sorry)
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/21/12 11:43 AM

Yup, Thanks steve.... I asked Brent to put me down for the cast drivers... Why not, right?
Posted by: Murph

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/21/12 02:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Ken.C
You're in Canadia, right? It should be totally driveable to go to the factory and listen. Maybe even every day!


It would be about a 20 hour drive, so maybe every second day.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/21/12 04:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Ken.C
You're in Canadia, right? It should be totally driveable to go to the factory and listen. Maybe even every day!


Ken, when i get mine, i will post a video on youtube, so you can hear what they sound like....

On a serious note, depending on when i get mine (i may ask Axiom to hold them due to getting a job/moving) i will try to do a decent comparison between my 60's and the new speakers. That is if i feel like posting anymore, if i disappear... you'll know why, and that will be your answer laugh
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/23/12 11:21 AM

Hi everyone;

A few updates from the show . . . I interviewed James Tanner from Bryston this morning on Andrew's latest object of lust . . . just uploading the video to Youtube now - I'll link it as soon as it's done.

Meanwhile, Piero from Home Theater Hi Fi dropped by to check out the LFR1100s, and here's his report:

http://cave.hometheaterhifi.com/profiles/blogs/salon-son-image-montreal-hi-fi-show-march-22-25
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/23/12 12:16 PM

Oh my gosh! You allowed him to take your picture! grin
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/23/12 12:20 PM

Can you imagine?! And then Absolute Sound Video'd me! Ian, I hope you love me for this!

Okay, Bryston video interview is live!


Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/23/12 07:26 PM

Well, it turns out Luc may have room for just *two* more speakers chez Raymond . . .


Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/23/12 09:33 PM

Need a picture of the LFR1100 next to an M80 for scale. wink

That Bryston thing is really neat. I use a Squeezebox for that (which works wonderfully), but I'm sure the Bryston has better audio quality. I think Salk is making something like that now, too. Gosh, our audio lives are getting more complicated all the time.

Thanks for the updates, Amie!
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/23/12 11:06 PM

The M80 looks small compared to the LFR1100. It's really a beauty, I really like the way you can configure the grills. The fact that you have 3 pieces let you in control what area of the speaker that you want to showcase. The DSP module looks like the axiom amp, it's a visually appealing black box. I didn't musically compare the m80 and LFR1100 but it would be an interesting to do.

If you bought a pair, I can guarantee that you will like them.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/24/12 12:07 AM

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Need a picture of the LFR1100 next to an M80 for scale. wink

That Bryston thing is really neat. I use a Squeezebox for that (which works wonderfully), but I'm sure the Bryston has better audio quality. I think Salk is making something like that now, too. Gosh, our audio lives are getting more complicated all the time.

Thanks for the updates, Amie!


Tom, you need both the BDP+BDA to play music...

BDP 2,100$.
BDA 2,100$.

I have a good opinion of Bryston, but i think that is a bit rich for my blood right now...
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/24/12 02:33 AM

Inebriated, Bipolar and Axiom-atic DSP Love
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/24/12 07:06 AM

Nice!
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/24/12 09:22 AM

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Need a picture of the LFR1100 next to an M80 for scale. wink

That Bryston thing is really neat. I use a Squeezebox for that (which works wonderfully), but I'm sure the Bryston has better audio quality. I think Salk is making something like that now, too. Gosh, our audio lives are getting more complicated all the time.

Thanks for the updates, Amie!



The brown giant on the left is the LFR1100 and the M80 (light maple finish) is on the right just after the sub (EP800). In this picture you can see a glimpse of the M60 (black) to the right of the M80.

Taller than an EP800 and a lit bit slimmer. I guess there is a need for a bigger sub now..

bigger is better right? ahah
:-)


Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/24/12 10:24 AM

Thanks for the pic, Luc!



Ha ha, this quote keeps popping into my head:

"We're gonna need a bigger boat. . . ."
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/24/12 10:37 AM

That looks bigger than I thought it would in comparison to the M80 and especially the M60!
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/24/12 11:10 AM

This is the DSP




not my own pictures, but I did some searching for you guys!
If I remember correctly, it will also be the same case that will be use for the future DSP of the M80 (2 channels) and M80/VP180 (3 channels). The future DSP will requires a V3 speakers or a v2 (with v3 electronics). V3 electronics was introduced in v2 speakers before they were officially labeled as V3. If interested, they will be able to tell you if it's the case by your serial number.

you can read an article about the new speakers (and new pictures) here

You can also see non-axiom related products here:

other products

Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/24/12 11:21 AM

We shot a quick video for you guys to see the LFR Demo system:



Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/24/12 01:13 PM

Nifty.
And darn quiet.
Wasn't this an AUDIO show?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/24/12 01:26 PM

Originally Posted By: chesseroo
Nifty.
And darn quiet.
Wasn't this an AUDIO show?

Yes, but you weren't allowed to play audio, so you could only show what it would look like.
Posted by: whippersnapper

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/24/12 01:30 PM

Hi Amie,
I just thought I'd point out that, so far at least, there's no access to the LFR 1100 page from the front page of the Axiom web site. It doesn't show up under the Floorstanding speakers page or anywhere else that I can find. The only way to see the new speaker is to go to your blog and link to it from there. You might want to make it accessible from the front page, as it seems to be generating a fair amount of interest. smile
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/24/12 01:36 PM

http://www.axiomaudio.com/lfr1100
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/24/12 02:55 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Originally Posted By: chesseroo
Nifty.
And darn quiet.
Wasn't this an AUDIO show?

Yes, but you weren't allowed to play audio, so you could only show what it would look like.


Wait, participants weren't allowed to play anything on their equipment regardless of volume??? Yet, they were expected to spend the time to set everything up!?


Oh well, from what i have seen so far, there has been quite a bit of interest in the new speakers..
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/24/12 06:39 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon

Oh well, from what i have seen so far, there has been quite a bit of interest in the new speakers..

Yup, lots of interest... in how they sound... perhaps a little more description than "you won't be dissapointed"...




?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/24/12 07:20 PM

Dak, you're actually taking anything that Mark writes seriously? Is joke. You laugh. Ha ha?
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/24/12 07:53 PM

Originally Posted By: JBall
If what you are saying is true about stamped steel vs cast, then why is virtually EVERY good quality subwoofer drive constructed of cast instead of thick stamped steel?


I forgot I wanted to respond to this point. When I asked Ian about the difference in standard stamped versus die cast, one thing he said was:

Originally Posted By: Ian
We use die cast aluminum baskets in all our sub-woofers currently and have since the early 1990s. As you get up above 6.5” in a basket it gets pretty hard to stamp thick enough steel to do the job perfectly so die cast becomes the better option.


Since you specifically mentioned subwoofer drivers, it seemed relevant.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/24/12 08:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
The mystery product is a S-P-E-A-K-E-R. wink


I really wish S-P-E-A-K-E-R had been the final name of the product.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/24/12 08:36 PM

That would have been awesome.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/24/12 08:47 PM

So.... Andrew, you didn't tell US the whole story..! (i don't remember reading "over a pint" anywhere......)

"design of the alcohol-induced speaker."

Now, when people ask
"Why do you speakers have "speakers" on the back?"

I HAVE to be honest......
"The designer was drunk..."

To which i am not even going to attempt at guessing what will follow from that....

On a side note, The case for the active DSP will have the same metal working as the Axiom amp's ya? You said the case at the show was not the final design, this is the prototype box ya?... (speaking of the screws holding the top plate down) are you going to have the same metal brake machine form the top/side piece as i assume is use for the amps?
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/25/12 05:02 AM

Hi guys;

I posted a terrible cell phone pic on FB to give you a sense of the size difference between the M80 and LFR1100:



And @whippersnapper, good suggestion. I've linked the Omnidirectional speaker from the homepage.
Posted by: avjunkee

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/25/12 09:26 AM

Hard working Amie still updating us at 5am shocked
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/25/12 11:03 AM

Check that time stamp again. Amie is up at 0400! (Everyday, according to a trusted source)

What does the "0" stand for? Oh, my God, it's early...
Posted by: FireGuy

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/25/12 12:19 PM

Observation: Assuming the LFR1100's will be a huge success; there should be a rather significant spike in the auction site for M80's coming up. That's gotta be good.
Posted by: Gary Vose Sr

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/25/12 04:00 PM

Hey FireGuy


Me thinks you're on to something here, and I agree with you. But the only draw back is, like with fine wine, these M80's age gracefully I'm sure, and still holds onto it's value rather well. So if I was in the market for some used M80's I wouldn't be looking for great savings.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/25/12 06:45 PM

Originally Posted By: FireGuy
Observation: Assuming the LFR1100's will be a huge success; there should be a rather significant spike in the auction site for M80's coming up. That's gotta be good.


I do not know that there will be a large spike (however, i DO know that there will most likely be a pair of M60ti's for sale). Due to the system requirements to run these speakers. People that are currently using a receiver or 1 channel of amplification per speaker now will have to buy the new speakers in addition to a second channel of equal amplification per speaker. For people who are using receivers, i am not sure that you can have the exact same signal sent to multiple channels in a receivers amplifier section? If you can not, then people who are currently using receivers will have to buy 4 channels of matched amplification. Of course, you could just power the front speakers... But that would kind of be defeating the point of buying the new towers...

Given the the current number of people who use outboard amps compared to receivers is pretty small, i do not know that we will see the demand to upgrade that was experienced when the vp180 was introduced.... The initial price point of these speakers is higher, and the added amplification makes these speaker about 5,000$, a pair retail, by the time everything is bought and paid for. That is leaving 1,300$ for 4 channels of amplification which is somewhat modest amount.
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/25/12 07:42 PM

I'm wondering... If you were going for a 2-chanel setup with the LFR1100s. Would a configuration like this work?

Take a CD/DVD-A/SACD/etc player with a quality pair of stereo outs, and run them into the DSP box. Then take the four outputs of the DSP and run them into the the front and surround channels of the 5.1 input of a receiver. As long as the receiver has the same amps on all five channels (as most do these days), it sounds like you'd be set.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/25/12 08:14 PM

Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
I'm wondering... If you were going for a 2-chanel setup with the LFR1100s. Would a configuration like this work?

Take a CD/DVD-A/SACD/etc player with a quality pair of stereo outs, and run them into the DSP box. Then take the four outputs of the DSP and run them into the the front and surround channels of the 5.1 input of a receiver. As long as the receiver has the same amps on all five channels (as most do these days), it sounds like you'd be set.


Any processing done by the receiver would totally hose your idea.. I don't know if receivers have a "pass through"... which is what you are essentially describing.... JohnK, and the Axiom folks would most likely know if what you described would be feasible...
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/25/12 09:57 PM

Although we don't have full details at this time if how the outputs of the "DSP box" are configured(or what it specifically does), if it takes the front left and right stereo channels and modifies(in some way)each channel for the back drivers, the modified output could be fed to the surround inputs on the receiver as Chris suggests. Then the surround outputs would be connected to the back driver terminals.

The output channels are identical in maximum output and assuming that the sections of the LFR1100 are similar in sensitivity to the M80, typical receivers with 100-150 watt ratings should be more than sufficient.
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/25/12 10:28 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
I don't know if receivers have a "pass through"... which is what you are essentially describing....

The 7/5.1 inputs on receivers are almost always analog pass-through. No delay or bass management can be applied to them. They function simply as a pre-amp to the amplifiers.

The only issue, and I doubt it will be one, is the DSP will be seeing a full line-level signal, rather than an attenuated one, that it would receive post pre-amp in the standard configuration.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/25/12 10:42 PM

Chris, we've missed your understanding and memory of the details.
Posted by: stevej

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/25/12 10:53 PM

Hey John. I have an Onkyo 3007 receiver. So if I wanted to purchase the new speakers what would I need to do to take full advantage of them?
Would I have to use seperate amps and if so would I lose my rear channels. I currently run 7.1 with 2 80s, 180, and 4 qs8s.
Thanks
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/25/12 11:06 PM

My suggestion would only work for people wanting a 2-channel setup; that would never be using any sort of surround speakers, or anything but the analog inputs to the receiver.

The normal method of hooking up these speakers would be to use the line outputs for the main left and right channels (which requires that you have a receiver that provides these, most lower models do not). You take those two pre-outs and run them into the DSP box. The DSP box then provides a total of four outputs, which then go into power amps, and those amps are connected to the speakers.

So yes, you need four channels (either two stereo, or one multi-channel (4+)) of external amplification. But you won't lose your surrounds in this case.

Actually with the VP180, you're a candidate for ordering the 3-way DSP box, that provides additional shaping for that speaker. That means you'd require five channels of external amps, which are easy enough to find.

EDIT: I just looked your Onkyo 3007 does have the required pre-outs.
Posted by: stevej

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/25/12 11:19 PM

Thanks for the info. Need to decide if I want to put that much money into this. When looking at saving about $1000.00 for the pre-order, the savings could buy some amps. Then talk my wife into letting me put the 80s in the living room. Decisions, decisions.
Thanks again.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/25/12 11:20 PM

Steve, if your question was directed to me, the situation I discussed in the previous post would also apply to you if the assumptions made there are correct(this of course is uncertain at this time). You'd be feeding the modified front channel signals(for the rear drivers of the LFR1100)from the DSP box into the back surround inputs on the 3007. Yes, you'd have to use two of the present channels of your 3007 for the rear drivers on the LFR1100 rather than your back surround speakers. If you wanted to keep the back surrounds an additional two channels of amplification would have to be added.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/25/12 11:21 PM

Originally Posted By: stevej
Hey John. I have an Onkyo 3007 receiver. So if I wanted to purchase the new speakers what would I need to do to take full advantage of them?
Would I have to use seperate amps and if so would I lose my rear channels. I currently run 7.1 with 2 80s, 180, and 4 qs8s.
Thanks

Steve, you mean like this amp?

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-s...mplifier/1.html

it has enough channels to power your 7.1 system with the LRF's in the system... and it's about 1k, and will match your receiver laugh

I know, were not much help saving money around here......
Posted by: stevej

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/25/12 11:31 PM

Thanks for the replies guys. I know what you mean about the money. Expensive hobby, but sure is fun.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 12:29 AM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
Originally Posted By: stevej
Hey John. I have an Onkyo 3007 receiver. So if I wanted to purchase the new speakers what would I need to do to take full advantage of them?
Would I have to use seperate amps and if so would I lose my rear channels. I currently run 7.1 with 2 80s, 180, and 4 qs8s.
Thanks

Steve, you mean like this amp?

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-s...mplifier/1.html




it has enough channels to power your 7.1 system with the LRF's in the system... and it's about 1k, and will match your receiver laugh

I know, were not much help saving money around here......




That's the one I have and use two Outlaw 2200 mono's for the 80's and am happy. Might just get two more mono's to run the LFR1100's. They really do pack a punch for the money , my cable box runs hotter than those little guys.
Posted by: avjunkee

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 12:49 AM

Originally Posted By: JohnK
...the modified output could be fed to the surround inputs on the receiver as Chris suggests. Then the surround outputs would be connected to the back driver terminals.

The output channels are identical in maximum output and assuming that the sections of the LFR1100 are similar in sensitivity to the M80, typical receivers with 100-150 watt ratings should be more than sufficient.



Even if this were possible, it would not be very practical IMHO:

1. You are limited to a 2.0 or 2.1 setup only.

2. You are restricted to one single audio source (ie. you can only use whatever device you have connected to the analog inputs of the receiver).

3. Depending on your definition of "typical," most receivers under $1000 do not have the necessary multi-channel analog audio inputs.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 01:02 AM

Originally Posted By: avjunkee
Even if this were possible, it would not be very practical IMHO:

1. You are limited to a 2.0 or 2.1 setup only.

2. You are restricted to one single audio source (ie. you can only use whatever device you have connected to the analog inputs of the receiver).

3. Depending on your definition of "typical," most receivers under $1000 do not have the necessary multi-channel analog audio inputs.


I think the first two were a given. On point 3, are you talking about retail price? I know my Onkyo which was closer to the $500 mark in street price has them. In any case, even if it was a 2.1 or 2.0 music-only system, I'd still personally want it to be a digital connection that I could apply processing to if the mood struck. And I'd want outboard amps, anyway.
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 08:26 AM

Originally Posted By: avjunkee



Even if this were possible, it would not be very practical IMHO:

1. You are limited to a 2.0 or 2.1 setup only.

2. You are restricted to one single audio source (ie. you can only use whatever device you have connected to the analog inputs of the receiver).

3. Depending on your definition of "typical," most receivers under $1000 do not have the necessary multi-channel analog audio inputs.



I completely agree! To make it work you only need to buy an external amp like Emotiva XPA and you're done with it.
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 08:48 AM

Originally Posted By: stevej
Hey John. I have an Onkyo 3007 receiver. So if I wanted to purchase the new speakers what would I need to do to take full advantage of them?
Would I have to use seperate amps and if so would I lose my rear channels. I currently run 7.1 with 2 80s, 180, and 4 qs8s.
Thanks


I would say the minimum required to get the new speakers is to get a stereo amplifier (or two mono). Leave everything as is except that you plug cables from the pre-amp of your receiver to the external amplifier and plug the LFR on the external amplifier.

Your receiver will be more than capable handling the rest of your speakers.

If you want a matching front audio level, I would recommend a three channels amplifier (like the XPA-3 from emotiva). It will also drive your center channel (VP180).

The XPA-3 gives you 300watts at 4ohm and will rock your world.

Leave all QS8 on the Onkyo, you would not notice the difference.

I do have 7 channels external amplification and my surrounds don't need it. I would have save money if I kept them hooked to the receiver.
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 09:34 AM

Originally Posted By: LucRaymond
I would say the minimum required to get the new speakers is to get a stereo amplifier (or two mono). Leave everything as is except that you plug cables from the pre-amp of your receiver to the external amplifier and plug the LFR on the external amplifier.

I don't know, I think the minimum needed is four channels of external amplification for a pair of LFRs.

The left and right pre-outs go into the DSP box, and that provides outputs for the left-front, left-rear, right-front, and right-rear drivers. Each of those arrays needs their own amp channel.
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 09:45 AM

Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
Originally Posted By: LucRaymond
I would say the minimum required to get the new speakers is to get a stereo amplifier (or two mono). Leave everything as is except that you plug cables from the pre-amp of your receiver to the external amplifier and plug the LFR on the external amplifier.

I don't know, I think the minimum needed is four channels of external amplification for a pair of LFRs.

The left and right pre-outs go into the DSP box, and that provides outputs for the left-front, left-rear, right-front, and right-rear drivers. Each of those arrays needs their own amp channel.


I missed that info, so you are probably right.

Make that a XPA-5, use four channels for the LFR, remaining channel for the VP180.

Leave QS8 on the Onkyo!
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 09:56 AM

And as I said earlier, don't forget to order the DSP box with the additional processing for the VP180. smile


I wonder if Axiom could whip up an additional DSP filter for vertical M60/M80 centers?
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 10:20 AM

Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
And as I said earlier, don't forget to order the DSP box with the additional processing for the VP180. smile


I wonder if Axiom could whip up an additional DSP filter for vertical M60/M80 centers?


There will be a DSP for M80v3 (I dont remember asking for M60). There will be 2 variations: 2 channels and 3 channels. The 3 channels version will be for the M80+VP180 combo.

Some late M80V2 have V3 components inside so they will work with the DSP. If you don't have V3 components, forget the DSP.
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 10:37 AM

I thought I read there'd also be a multi-DSP option for two LFR1100s+VP160/VP180. What I was wondering about is a two LFR1100, plus M60 or M80 center instead of the VP-series. Sounds like if they already have the curves for using M80s as mains, then they'd just have to load that for the center instead. That is provided I didn't misremember about the LFR+VP option.
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 11:16 AM

Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
I thought I read there'd also be a multi-DSP option for two LFR1100s+VP160/VP180. What I was wondering about is a two LFR1100, plus M60 or M80 center instead of the VP-series. Sounds like if they already have the curves for using M80s as mains, then they'd just have to load that for the center instead. That is provided I didn't misremember about the LFR+VP option.


I think you need to bribe Andrew! I suspect they could make custom version of the box if you manage to find his favorite beer! wink

I saw&heard the LFR in person and they are GRREEEEAT. I just don't have any rooms they could fit in.
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 11:34 AM

Oh, I can't afford these, I've got a new car that needs carbon fiber body panels. smile I'm just trying to spend other people's money for them. laugh
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 11:41 AM

Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
Oh, I can't afford these, I've got a new car that needs carbon fiber body panels. smile I'm just trying to spend other people's money for them. laugh


I'm still waiting for them to make car systems.. remove those useless airbags and put something decent
Posted by: solarrdadd

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 11:53 AM

has anyone seen the side of the DSP box for the input and output of the cables? if so, could we get a picture of it so we can all know what it looks like. since there are a couple different versions how about the one just for the LFR1100 L&R (2 channel in) and the one for the M80v3 L&R, VP180v3 C, 3 channels in.

I'm mostly interested in the latter to see if I decide to go with it for my existing setup (which has the 3 speakers listed) where to put it as well as how it looks.

please & thank you!
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 12:13 PM

Originally Posted By: solarrdadd
has anyone seen the side of the DSP box for the input and output of the cables? if so, could we get a picture of it so we can all know what it looks like. since there are a couple different versions how about the one just for the LFR1100 L&R (2 channel in) and the one for the M80v3 L&R, VP180v3 C, 3 channels in.

I'm mostly interested in the latter to see if I decide to go with it for my existing setup (which has the 3 speakers listed) where to put it as well as how it looks.

please & thank you!


I've seen it but I don't have a picture of the rear. Really standard stuff 2 inputs.. and 4 outputs.

This is the DSP. All versions should be using that specific case.

Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 12:16 PM

Quote:
the one for the M80v3 L&R, VP180v3 C, 3 channels in


I'd be pretty surprised if one of these has even been built, yet.

Remember, the DSP box is only being launched now, in conjunction with the new speaker. Just because the same concepts may be developed for V3 models and in different configurations doesn't mean that they are "available".
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 12:17 PM

This is what Ian said in an e-mail he sent me.

Originally Posted By: Ian
For the M100 you will want four channels of exactly the same amplification. It is pretty much the more power the better up to about 500 watts per channel and then the speaker would start to become the limiting factor.


So a receiver + stereo amp would not work. I am pretty sure that the power AND the gain need to be the same for all channels powering the new speakers
Posted by: solarrdadd

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 12:36 PM

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Quote:
the one for the M80v3 L&R, VP180v3 C, 3 channels in


I'd be pretty surprised if one of these has even been built, yet.

Remember, the DSP box is only being launched now, in conjunction with the new speaker. Just because the same concepts may be developed for V3 models and in different configurations doesn't mean that they are "available".


understood, i was just asking if someone had a picture of it. they show the one from the front, just nice to know what the connection side looks like. that's all.
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 12:39 PM

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Quote:
the one for the M80v3 L&R, VP180v3 C, 3 channels in


I'd be pretty surprised if one of these has even been built, yet.

Remember, the DSP box is only being launched now, in conjunction with the new speaker. Just because the same concepts may be developed for V3 models and in different configurations doesn't mean that they are "available".


Andrew himself talked to me about the M80 DSP, I'm pretty sure it's real enough. He described the difference with the DSP.

wink

since I have M80V2 that,s why I asked if it would be compatible with mine. Since they probably have V3 components in them, yes they will. Any older V2 won't work. I ordered my M80V2 just a few months away from the V3 release.

So far this is real information and no speculation.

I know the product was not announced officially but let's wait and see.
Posted by: solarrdadd

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 12:41 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
This is what Ian said in an e-mail he sent me.

Originally Posted By: Ian
For the M100 you will want four channels of exactly the same amplification. It is pretty much the more power the better up to about 500 watts per channel and then the speaker would start to become the limiting factor.


So a receiver + stereo amp would not work. I am pretty sure that the power AND the gain need to be the same for all channels powering the new speakers


i'd be willing to bet that the amp for the rear section doesn't need to be as powerful as the front section. i bet only the gain needs to be identical. lets face it the rear only has 2 tweeters and 2 mid-woofers. the front has all of that plus 3 (sub) woofers.

time will tell
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 12:47 PM

Originally Posted By: solarrdadd
Originally Posted By: dakkon
This is what Ian said in an e-mail he sent me.

Originally Posted By: Ian
For the M100 you will want four channels of exactly the same amplification. It is pretty much the more power the better up to about 500 watts per channel and then the speaker would start to become the limiting factor.


So a receiver + stereo amp would not work. I am pretty sure that the power AND the gain need to be the same for all channels powering the new speakers


i'd be willing to bet that the amp for the rear section doesn't need to be as powerful as the front section. i bet only the gain needs to be identical. lets face it the rear only has 2 tweeters and 2 mid-woofers. the front has all of that plus 3 (sub) woofers.

time will tell


This was my e-mail to which the response above i received.

Originally Posted By: dakkon
The amps that i am planning on running will be the Krell KAV 250a's (250W@ 8 ohm, 500W@4ohm).. However, could i use the 250a for 2 of the channels, and buy a KAV 150 (150W @8ohm and 300W @ 4ohm) for the other 2 channels, i am pretty sure that the 150 and 250 have the same gain, i will have to call krell to verify, or should i just get a second 250a?


Originally Posted By: Ian
For the M100 you will want four channels of exactly the same amplification. It is pretty much the more power the better up to about 500 watts per channel and then the speaker would start to become the limiting factor.


I would guess there is a reason why you need matching amplification. Also, Ian specifically said "exactly the same"... I am going to do what Ian said to do, since he and Andrew designed the things.
Posted by: stevej

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 01:05 PM

A lot of good advice. I looked on the outlaw site and I could get 5 2200s for $1324. The 5th one is free. That would be 4 for the new speakers and one for my 180. Then the surrounds on the Onkyo.
Looks like that may a good setup. But talking my wife into the 4000.00 investment. HMMMM. Plus the DSP for the 180.

Again thanks for all the replies. A lot of knowledge here that I sure don't have.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 01:35 PM

Originally Posted By: stevej
A lot of good advice. I looked on the outlaw site and I could get 5 2200s for $1324. The 5th one is free. That would be 4 for the new speakers and one for my 180. Then the surrounds on the Onkyo.
Looks like that may a good setup. But talking my wife into the 4000.00 investment. HMMMM. Plus the DSP for the 180.

Again thanks for all the replies. A lot of knowledge here that I sure don't have.


Steve, your on the right track.. investment
Posted by: stevej

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 01:38 PM

Yeah. At least it sounds good when using that word.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 02:02 PM

That's sort of funny. When I first saw your post I was going to reply to the contraray of Dak. Your wife is not stupid (she's not Romanian, is she?). She knows that investments increase in value. You have to convince her that your fulfilled desire will will make you so ecstatic that you will be a changed man and gleefully do the laundry and the supermarket shopping.
Posted by: stevej

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 02:22 PM

Actually my wife is a great lady. Been married 39 years. Just joking on this some. She will say do what you want to do. She really loves the HT and our time watching movies. Not so much into music. But this is a lot of money and will have to convince myself more than her.
Posted by: Henry66

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 02:42 PM

[Deleted. Wrong thread.]
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 05:11 PM

Typical product bashing going on over at Audiohaulics...

They bash what they do not understand...

Our good friend GTPSuper also is one of the early bashers...

Then they bash Canadians, then the price, then Canadians again, then GTPSuper pipes up again to bash some more on anything Axiom... Then Gene steps in and sticks up for Axiom as a company...

Then people start almost defending Axiom (even hard core bashers, well, except GTPSuper and some guy Ack_Bak).

Then there are waterfall graphs, and then someone with the screen name of GranteedEV starts sticking up for Axiom a bit....and then GTPSuper comes back with his ranting, so then people speculating what they might really sound like...

Now, nobody needs to read it. grin
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 05:21 PM

right, nick, no need to read it, but still worth to do it just because one gets some good laughs doing it.
Posted by: JC2

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 05:52 PM

And Blue-ray:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=95875&page=97


And AVS:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=917341&page=41
Posted by: solarrdadd

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 05:56 PM

Originally Posted By: nickbuol
Typical product bashing going on over at Audiohaulics...

They bash what they do not understand...

Our good friend GTPSuper also is one of the early bashers...

Then they bash Canadians, then the price, then Canadians again, then GTPSuper pipes up again to bash some more on anything Axiom... Then Gene steps in and sticks up for Axiom as a company...

Then people start almost defending Axiom (even hard core bashers, well, except GTPSuper and some guy Ack_Bak).

Then there are waterfall graphs, and then someone with the screen name of GranteedEV starts sticking up for Axiom a bit....and then GTPSuper comes back with his ranting, so then people speculating what they might really sound like...

Now, nobody needs to read it. grin


not the only place that axiom bashing is going on. there is plenty over in the axiom thread over at blu-ray.com and some of the folks are listed as home grown from up north to boot so axiom isn't getting any love! frown

i want to try to respect everyone's right to voice their opinion, but bashing is bashing. just not sure why some folks are so hateful towards and angry at axiom, it's product, it's owners and the people who happen to like those listed things.
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 07:05 PM

my guess is that Axiom has more success than lots of people would like.
this behavior is part of nature.
Posted by: Philippe

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 08:03 PM

There is so many brand (including Axiom) who claim to have THE speaker who can beat some who are actually costing much more. I have own a pair of M80v2 for about a year and i would definitly buy them again. But if you do not like Axiom design, sound, people, well... that's just fine

But i think Axiom is on the right way and get many fans over the net. Bravo for the M100 !
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 08:12 PM


And another one just started at AVS. If you're going to go, go now. The thread only has one post, but it won't be long before ol' superduper starts his diatribe and is joined by the other Axiom haters. I've got to stop going there.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1402192
Posted by: solarrdadd

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 08:26 PM

ajax, i'll stop back by the avs link you left later and see how soon someone else post just for the hellovit!
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 09:00 PM

I just watch it for fun Jack.....not much to get,really!
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 10:39 PM

What really blows my mind is when people utterly BASH Axiom, and their signatures list Axiom speakers in their line-up. Wow. Can't be THAT bad then... wink
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 10:43 PM

Hi everyone.

I just stepped in the door after a 6+ hour drive back from Montreal. smile The show was exciting, vibrant, and full of music lovers from all over! It was a great pleasure meeting Luc Raymond and EricF and many other Axiom owners who are not on the forums. The LFR1100s sounded very good given that they were essentially in a large ballroom/meeting room! But take that with a grain of salt...I'm biased.

I see there have been a number of technical questions and guesses regarding amplifiers, room sizes, how to integrate the DSP box, what configurations are available, etc.

So, even though I'm pooped, it's time for some answers as I've been absent from the forum for over a week.

Let's start with the room.
Ideally, in a perfect world, you would have a wide enough room where the side walls were at least 3 or 4 feet from the speakers and you could get the LFR1100s out from the back wall by 2-3 feet. However, not everyone has the space, or the room environment that will allow this. Our solution is a compensation switch, if you will, on the back of the DSP box that will have settings for "less than 2 feet from the back wall" and "2 feet or more from the back wall". Naturally you can switch between these two settings to see what works best in your room.

The amplifier question is frankly something that should have been better explained from the start. Mea culpa.
The LFR1100 system requires FOUR independent amplifier channels, as one speaker is essentially two complete speakers in a single cabinet. The amplifier power does NOT need to be identical for the front and rear sections. A good rule of thumb is 60% or more of the front section power. An example would be a 200 WPC stereo amp driving the two front sections. You would then want at least 120 WPC for the rear section. Any less than 60% and you risk the rear sections running out of power before the front sections. Now, even though the amplifiers do not need to be identical in power rating they MUST have identical gain. The is easy if you are dealing with amplifiers or amp channels from the same manufacturer as this is often standard within a particular company's model line.

The DSP box for the LFR1100 is stereo in with four channels out. It allows for both singled-ended RCA connections and balanced XLR connections. I think Steve took some photos of the back panel and I'll ask him to post one tomorrow. If not I'll get out my camera and take one! smile The DSP itself does not nominally have any gain, and will not alter volume level settings when inserted into an existing system. So if you usually set your pre-amp to a level of "20" for a good listening level, that will not change with the DSP. The box could easily be inserted into the signal chain before the pre-amp if desired. The only warning is that the DSP is designed to operate at standard audio signal levels and accepts a maximum input of 2Vrms. Anything more than that will overload the inputs of the A/D converters.

Ian's pricing for the M80/M60+VP180/VP160 and M80/M60 did not include a version of the LFR1100 + centre. There is no reason it could not be produced if desired and I'm sure Ian will figure out the cost once he reads this post! Likewise, if you use a vertical M80v3 or M60v3 as a centre the DSP can easily be programmed to work with your system. While preliminary code has been written for the M80v3, the tooled chassis parts are only arriving now, so I don't have any photos. As soon as we have one mocked up I'll be sure to post one here.

Cheers!

Andrew
Posted by: solarrdadd

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 10:59 PM

Originally Posted By: solarrdadd
Originally Posted By: dakkon
This is what Ian said in an e-mail he sent me.

Originally Posted By: Ian
For the M100 you will want four channels of exactly the same amplification. It is pretty much the more power the better up to about 500 watts per channel and then the speaker would start to become the limiting factor.


So a receiver + stereo amp would not work. I am pretty sure that the power AND the gain need to be the same for all channels powering the new speakers


i'd be willing to bet that the amp for the rear section doesn't need to be as powerful as the front section. i bet only the gain needs to be identical. lets face it the rear only has 2 tweeters and 2 mid-woofers. the front has all of that plus 3 (sub) woofers.

time will tell


here is a quote from andrew, tonight, about the amp needs for the new speakers and the DSP boxes:

"The amplifier power does NOT need to be identical for the front and rear sections. A good rule of thumb is 60% or more of the front section power. An example would be a 200 WPC stereo amp driving the two front sections. You would then want at least 120 WPC for the rear section. Any less than 60% and you risk the rear sections running out of power before the front sections. Now, even though the amplifiers do not need to be identical in power rating they MUST have identical gain."

Gee, any of this sound familiar!?! Looks like Uncle Solarrdadd hit the nail on the head with the my thoughts on the amp needs! wink

Please & Thank You!
Posted by: casey01

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 11:03 PM

Originally Posted By: nickbuol
What really blows my mind is when people utterly BASH Axiom, and their signatures list Axiom speakers in their line-up. Wow. Can't be THAT bad then... wink


The problem with Audioholics and Gene in general, is that their credibility AND agenda is quite suspect. While he chimes in from time to time to chastise those about their so-called "comments" he still allows those that do it to continue. I have seen a number of people who have been considerably less critical of equipment they have reviewed and/or advertised on their site who have been publicly warned and even suspended from posting.
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 11:17 PM

Thank you Andrew, that answered all the questions I've posed so far.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/26/12 11:30 PM

Not necessarily, dadd. Although Andrew didn't specify exactly why the rear drivers would use less power, it may be that part of the DSP processing is to set the back output at a slightly lower level than the front. If this was on the order of 2dB it would explain the 60% rule of thumb and would have nothing to do with the relative number of front/back drivers. In order to maintain the correct front/back balance the gain of the amplifier channels would have to be identical(or a level control to adjust the outputs would have to be available).
Posted by: Steve H

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/27/12 06:20 AM

Here is a picture of the rear panel of the DSP prototype:

Posted by: Adrian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/27/12 10:40 AM

I wonder how this unit compares to a Behringer DCX2496 or a BBE DS48?
Posted by: avjunkee

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/27/12 11:17 AM

Will the DSP come with brackets to rack mount it? I believe it was already in a 19" wide 2U type chassis.
Posted by: cohesion

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/28/12 08:07 AM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
Hi everyone.

I just stepped in the door after a 6+ hour drive back from Montreal. smile The show was exciting, vibrant, and full of music lovers from all over! It was a great pleasure meeting Luc Raymond and EricF and many other Axiom owners who are not on the forums. The LFR1100s sounded very good given that they were essentially in a large ballroom/meeting room! But take that with a grain of salt...I'm biased.

I see there have been a number of technical questions and guesses regarding amplifiers, room sizes, how to integrate the DSP box, what configurations are available, etc.

So, even though I'm pooped, it's time for some answers as I've been absent from the forum for over a week.

Let's start with the room.
Ideally, in a perfect world, you would have a wide enough room where the side walls were at least 3 or 4 feet from the speakers and you could get the LFR1100s out from the back wall by 2-3 feet. However, not everyone has the space, or the room environment that will allow this. Our solution is a compensation switch, if you will, on the back of the DSP box that will have settings for "less than 2 feet from the back wall" and "2 feet or more from the back wall". Naturally you can switch between these two settings to see what works best in your room.

The amplifier question is frankly something that should have been better explained from the start. Mea culpa.
The LFR1100 system requires FOUR independent amplifier channels, as one speaker is essentially two complete speakers in a single cabinet. The amplifier power does NOT need to be identical for the front and rear sections. A good rule of thumb is 60% or more of the front section power. An example would be a 200 WPC stereo amp driving the two front sections. You would then want at least 120 WPC for the rear section. Any less than 60% and you risk the rear sections running out of power before the front sections. Now, even though the amplifiers do not need to be identical in power rating they MUST have identical gain. The is easy if you are dealing with amplifiers or amp channels from the same manufacturer as this is often standard within a particular company's model line.

The DSP box for the LFR1100 is stereo in with four channels out. It allows for both singled-ended RCA connections and balanced XLR connections. I think Steve took some photos of the back panel and I'll ask him to post one tomorrow. If not I'll get out my camera and take one! smile The DSP itself does not nominally have any gain, and will not alter volume level settings when inserted into an existing system. So if you usually set your pre-amp to a level of "20" for a good listening level, that will not change with the DSP. The box could easily be inserted into the signal chain before the pre-amp if desired. The only warning is that the DSP is designed to operate at standard audio signal levels and accepts a maximum input of 2Vrms. Anything more than that will overload the inputs of the A/D converters.

Ian's pricing for the M80/M60+VP180/VP160 and M80/M60 did not include a version of the LFR1100 + centre. There is no reason it could not be produced if desired and I'm sure Ian will figure out the cost once he reads this post! Likewise, if you use a vertical M80v3 or M60v3 as a centre the DSP can easily be programmed to work with your system. While preliminary code has been written for the M80v3, the tooled chassis parts are only arriving now, so I don't have any photos. As soon as we have one mocked up I'll be sure to post one here.

Cheers!

Andrew


Thanks Andrew for the info! I'm newly signed up for the Forums but already have a set of M80's and VP180 in my home theatre room. In fact I saw this discussion last week and signed up for the LFR1000 right away -- I think I got in at around #5! I wonder if all of the first 10 signed pairs are spoken for yet?

Anyway I'm trying to sort out the details of my configuration with the LFR1000's. I noticed you mentioned the possibility of a new LFR1000 + centre. I was speculating that one might become available but wonder if there is a need for one. Many people already seem to like doing two VP180/160 centres, one above and one below the screen. That might be a good option too but would we be able to setup the DSP accordingly? Also, for those of us who already have a VP180/160, would it make sense to produce something like the back half of an LFR centre -- perhaps with additional bass driver(s) -- and use that in combination with the VP?
Posted by: mpyw

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/28/12 08:07 AM

would the new speakers work in an enclosed cabinet with grill at front?

what would be the connection arrangement like if connect the speakers using normal AVR + power amp?
Posted by: cohesion

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/28/12 08:12 AM

Not a technical question, but can anyone tell me how the prototype LFR1100's shown at SSI were finished? Were they 'real wood' and if so what type?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/28/12 08:30 AM

Just in case everyone at Axiom is busy with website stuff- These are my opinions ONLY! smile

mpyw- I can't imagine the new speakers would work well in an enclosed cabinet because they rely on a suitable reflection from the rear-driving speakers. Somebody else will have to answer the hookup question!

Cohesion: I BELIEVE the demo units were Rosewood veneer- a wood finish!
Posted by: cohesion

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/28/12 08:50 AM

Thanks Mark! I will await confirmation. Those prototypes looked so good I may have to order mine the same. Here comes another credit card order! I guess we'll find out if the security hole has been fixed...

Regarding mpyw's hookup question: does your AVR have pre-outs? If not you may have another upgrade opportunity coming your way!
Posted by: Jc

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/28/12 09:32 AM

Originally Posted By: cohesion
Not a technical question, but can anyone tell me how the prototype LFR1100's shown at SSI were finished? Were they 'real wood' and if so what type?

Hi cohesion,
They were VaSSallo's real wood veneer in rosewood; they were stunning !
Posted by: Jc

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/28/12 09:36 AM

Originally Posted By: mpyw
would the new speakers work in an enclosed cabinet with grill at front?

It will not work; there is an array of four speakers on the back side which need to breathe in opened space.

Originally Posted By: mpyw

what would be the connection arrangement like if connect the speakers using normal AVR + power amp?

The DSP box would be connected between the pre-out outputs of the AVR and the stand alone amplifier.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/28/12 09:41 AM

Originally Posted By: Jc
there is an array of four speakers on thre back side which need to bread in opened space.

Wow! I assume you meant to type BREED instead of Bread!

So, these speakers BREED? If I buy a pair, I can maybe expect the pitter-patter of little M3s or M2s soon?

You guys have SERIOUSLY developed technology for this speaker that's astounding! grin
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/28/12 09:50 AM

Re: using two DSP'd centers plus a LFR. I know the picture above showing the back of the unit is of the prototype, but I don't imagine it's going to be any wider, and that back panel looks pretty crowded. With a little squeezing I can see how another single input/output could be added for a center, but two might be pushing it.

But as long as the centers are matched there's no need for two separate DSP filters, the output can be split with a Y, and that run to the inputs of two individual amp channels.
Posted by: cohesion

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/28/12 11:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Jc
Originally Posted By: cohesion
Not a technical question, but can anyone tell me how the prototype LFR1100's shown at SSI were finished? Were they 'real wood' and if so what type?

Hi cohesion,
They were VaSSallo's real wood veneer in rosewood; they were stunning !


I was guessing it was something like that! Unfortunately I don't know how they look in person but they sure as h-e-double-hockeystick look good in the photos! Can someone please tell me the cost (not including a potentially cancelled and reissued credit card) should I want to upgrade my order to that finish? smile
Posted by: Jc

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/28/12 11:34 AM

even M22s . . .
Posted by: Jc

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/28/12 11:42 AM

Originally Posted By: cohesion
Can someone please tell me the cost (not including a potentially cancelled and reissued credit card) should I want to upgrade my order to that finish? smile

The additional cost going from one of the two regular finishes to a rosewood one in matte or semi-gloss is $1,080.00. You can easily verify the cost of all the options by clicking Customize Yours on the LFR-1100 product page at
Axiom LFR-1000
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/28/12 02:46 PM

to upgrade to that finish should be about 1,080$....

http://www.axiomaudio.com/lfr1100#

look under customize yours. I could not find VaSSallo's in there, but it would be one of therosewoods i would assume.

P.S.
It would appear that me and Jc were typing at the same time...
Posted by: Jc

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/28/12 03:13 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
I could not find VaSSallo's in there, but it would be one of therosewoods i would assume...

VaSSallo is the name of the Axiom speakers which enclosure have the real wood veneer finish. Joe VaSSallo who has worked for Axiom for many years, allowed Axiom to use his name for that Series of Axiom speakers.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/28/12 07:20 PM

Looks is one thing, but how do they stand up in a true blind A/B test to the M80's? Obviously, everyone will have an opinion. :0
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/30/12 12:10 PM

LOL. I played around with adding every option to a pair of LFR's, and in the configuration window, it showed "M100" instead of LFR1100... And here we were told that Axiom was calling them the "not-M100"... SOMEONE didn't get that memo. LOL

Just pokin' fun.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/31/12 11:52 AM

Originally Posted By: cohesion
Also, for those of us who already have a VP180/160, would it make sense to produce something like the back half of an LFR centre -- perhaps with additional bass driver(s) -- and use that in combination with the VP?


... or program the DSP to work with a VP160/180 facing forward and a VP150 (the one you replaced with the 160/180) facing backwards wink
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 03/31/12 12:27 PM

Brilliant, John!
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/01/12 10:57 PM

Originally Posted By: CV
I actually think OPPO could make a decent attempt at a pre-pro. Maybe if enough internet direct companies got together and pooled their resources something like this could come about.


For what it's worth, I did ramble on a bit to OPPO in an email about how I'd like to see pre-pros evolve and suggested that they may be in a good place to take a stab at it. They gave me a standard response about forwarding my ideas to the engineers who would take them into consideration for future products and designs. I realize the chances of anything sticking are infinitesimal, but hey, at least I shot it out there, right?
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/02/12 12:49 PM

Well, from our perspective, getting emails from our customers really do drive future consideration . . . so maybe . . . smile
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/02/12 06:08 PM

Yes...build a nice prepro,amp designed for your speakers. I tell you, win,win!(fingers crossed)
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/03/12 07:52 AM

if Axiom had had pre-pros a few months ago, i would most probably have bought one, instead of the Marantz.
Posted by: solarrdadd

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/07/12 07:33 PM

WoW, no activity for the past 4 days. this thing died a quick death OR has it been closed and I'm the only one who didn't get the memo?!? whistle
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/07/12 07:46 PM

Upstaged by internet stupidity.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/07/12 08:00 PM

Originally Posted By: fredk
Upstaged by internet stupidity.



HAHAHAHAHA.....

I think that once they start shipping, this thread will be posted in regularly.. pretty much all of the information has been released... However, i do believe that Steve and Andrew said they would be posting new photos of the DSP box when they get the production sheet metal in.....
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/07/12 08:05 PM

We're all just waiting to hear about what you had Ian do special for you on your pair, dakkon.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/07/12 09:57 PM

oooo... yeah... i will take photos when it all happens... smile
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/07/12 10:18 PM

Originally Posted By: CV
We're all just waiting to hear about what you had Ian do special for you on your pair, dakkon.

Originally Posted By: dakkon
oooo... yeah... i will take photos when it all happens... smile

Not sure if I want to see those. crazy
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/07/12 10:20 PM

ble, get your head out of the gutter....
wink
Posted by: INANE

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/08/12 12:05 AM

<--- can't wait for member reviews
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 10:51 AM

Now that we're back on track . . . ahem! . . . I had a chance to do a little interview with Andrew for the blog to explain the audio DSP in the LFR1100. Hot off the presses!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 11:02 AM

Cool, Amie!

Quote:
Where that cancellation typically takes place is also in the particular frequency range which helps us in our mind create the ‘image’ – a location of where the sound is coming from. In a typical bipolar with these cancellations, the image gets very washed out and indistinct.

But what happens if the listener himself is bipolar? Does the imaging get more indistinct, or is it the most amazing listening experience ever? grin

Seriously, nice explanations.

So the future DSP option for the M80s and M60s simply flattens the frequency response of the speakers even more.

Maybe this has been asked before, but can the DSP algorithm be updated in the field? And can a DSP be tailored to particular room acoustics?
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 11:39 AM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
But what happens if the listener himself is bipolar? Does the imaging get more indistinct, or is it the most amazing listening experience ever? grin


Go back and listen to Quadrophenia again. That should answer most of your questions.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 11:41 AM

If i remember correctly mark, the parts Andrew was looking at to have an "in the field update" would have been considerably more expensive.. So they will update the DSP at the factory, and also put the box on the test bench after the update to verify everything took prior to returning the unit.
Posted by: avjunkee

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 12:54 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
And can a DSP be tailored to particular room acoustics?



I believe this has been partially addressed with the implementation of a boundary compensation switch.

I thought it would be ultra neat if they could literally custom code the DSP for you if you provide them with all of your wall to speaker distances, but the switch is the next best thing.

Why not have a switch with more than one distance option (instead of simply greater than or less than 2ft)? Possibly because the've already tested and found that going more percise or with smaller increments didn't make any, much, or enough of a difference.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 01:00 PM

I wasn't thinking about room dimensions alone, but also whether a room is "live or dead".
Posted by: avjunkee

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 02:22 PM

That too, I just didn't want to get too greedy smile.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 03:06 PM

I'm not sure if the 'infinite number of room dimensions' would be the same as 'infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of keyboards' . . . but I have shot the thread to Andrew for some insights. Interesting question!
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 03:06 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
I wasn't thinking about room dimensions alone, but also whether a room is "live or dead" square or normal.


Fixed that for you.

Amie, you are doing a wonderful job with the blog.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 05:08 PM

Thanks for giving us a little more insight on the new speakers, Amie. Can't wait to get these babies up and running, then I will give you guys some pics of my setup.

Also, when I ordered my speakers, there was no option for the three board DSP (VP160) so I think I still owe you some money for that and want to make sure that it's added.Thanks
Posted by: cohesion

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 05:21 PM

Good point. I've also asked about an option to support two centres (VP160/80) and Andrew hinted that they might produce an LFR centre.
Posted by: cohesion

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 05:27 PM

Good point. I've also asked about an option to support two centres (VP160/80) and Andrew hinted that they might produce an LFR centre.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 05:53 PM

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
I wasn't thinking about room dimensions alone, but also whether a room is "live or dead" square or normal.


Fixed that for you.

Amie, you are doing a wonderful job with the blog.

I think you are on the right track. Mark is angling for the special 'square room' mode.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 06:03 PM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
Thanks for giving us a little more insight on the new speakers, Amie. Can't wait to get these babies up and running, then I will give you guys some pics of my setup.

Also, when I ordered my speakers, there was no option for the three board DSP (VP160) so I think I still owe you some money for that and want to make sure that it's added.Thanks


Call, Brent and JC can add it... I ordered mine over the phone and JC had no problem adding the 3rd channel for me.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 06:11 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson

So the future DSP option for the M80s and M60s simply flattens the frequency response of the speakers even more.


Correct. But it is more than just making the on-axis look better, it's taking into account the entire family of curves.

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Maybe this has been asked before, but can the DSP algorithm be updated in the field? And can a DSP be tailored to particular room acoustics?


No. Any firmware updated must be done by us at the factory. This also gives us a chance to make sure the update was successful, and gives us a chance to make sure the DSP is performing up to the original spec.

Room acoustics are a tricky issue and one that we feel is not correctly dealt with by the typical "auto" algorithms. The boundary switch will deal with the majority of "tricky" set ups and overly live rooms.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 06:12 PM

Originally Posted By: cohesion
Good point. I've also asked about an option to support two centres (VP160/80) and Andrew hinted that they might produce an LFR centre.


I did?
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 06:13 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
If i remember correctly mark, the parts Andrew was looking at to have an "in the field update" would have been considerably more expensive.. So they will update the DSP at the factory, and also put the box on the test bench after the update to verify everything took prior to returning the unit.


I couldn't have said it better myself!
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 06:19 PM

Originally Posted By: avjunkee
Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
And can a DSP be tailored to particular room acoustics?



I believe this has been partially addressed with the implementation of a boundary compensation switch.

I thought it would be ultra neat if they could literally custom code the DSP for you if you provide them with all of your wall to speaker distances, but the switch is the next best thing.

Why not have a switch with more than one distance option (instead of simply greater than or less than 2ft)? Possibly because the've already tested and found that going more percise or with smaller increments didn't make any, much, or enough of a difference.



There are a couple of reasons for only having two settings:

I have found that the more options you make available, the more confusing you make system set up for the typical customer. It also makes it easier to "screw up" the performance with a wide range of adjustments. Fortunately in this case two settings are all you really need. One for a typical room that's not too live with a couple of feet of breathing room behind the speakers, the other for live rooms and/or a need for close to the rear wall positioning. smile
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 06:28 PM

I like your approach, Andrew.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 06:34 PM

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
I like your approach, Andrew.


Thanks Tom!
BTW, are you a Weisse/Weizen/Wheat beer fan?
(You can respond in the beer thread if you prefer!) smile
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 06:36 PM

Andrew, can you say what the minimum impedance of the front speakers will be?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 06:36 PM

Tom is a fan of beer. period.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 06:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
Originally Posted By: dakkon
If i remember correctly mark, the parts Andrew was looking at to have an "in the field update" would have been considerably more expensive.. So they will update the DSP at the factory, and also put the box on the test bench after the update to verify everything took prior to returning the unit.


I couldn't have said it better myself!


You did say that... i have been paying close attention to your posts crazy
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 06:38 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
Andrew, can you say what the minimum impedance of the front speakers will be?


Don't quote me on this, but I believe it's around 3.5 ohms. This could change depending on the final crossover values. And yes, I'm still tweaking! wink
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 06:39 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
Originally Posted By: Andrew
Originally Posted By: dakkon
If i remember correctly mark, the parts Andrew was looking at to have an "in the field update" would have been considerably more expensive.. So they will update the DSP at the factory, and also put the box on the test bench after the update to verify everything took prior to returning the unit.


I couldn't have said it better myself!


You did say that... i have been paying close attention to your posts crazy


Hmmmm...did I just quote quoting myself then? grin
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 07:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
Hmmmm...did I just quote quoting myself then? grin

I'm not surprised.

Considering that you're tweaking and all. grin
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 07:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
Originally Posted By: dakkon
Andrew, can you say what the minimum impedance of the front speakers will be?


Don't quote me on this, but I believe it's around 3.5 ohms. This could change depending on the final crossover values. And yes, I'm still tweaking! wink


Ok, i am "looking" at a ksa 250... 250w @ 8ohm, and doubles down to 2,000W @ .5ohm....

The gain on that amp is 24dbw.. and the smaller amp is 25.8dbw...

I am not sure if i want to get the KSA 250.. It is a pure class A amp which would be nice; but I have read that it needs a dedicated 12A breaker... i will have to call and verify this....
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/10/12 09:47 PM

Thanks Amie, for posting Andrew's very informative discussion on "What Does That Thing Do, Anyway", which many of us have been wondering about. This info and further details which are to come can certainly help prospective purchasers to be more confident and others of us to be able to suggest that it be seriously considered.

Just to put some numbers on the cancellation effect between the front and back drivers which Andrew pointed out as a flaw in some previous designs using a back driver array, a basic point is that two drivers playing the same frequency will partially cancel when separated by about half the wavelength of that frequency. The mid-range drivers in the LFR1100 are separated(from centers of their cones)about 25". The wavelength affected would be about 13,600(speed of sound in inches per second)/25, or about 540Hz. So, a partial cancellation would occur in the lower mid-range around 270Hz, with the effects Andrew described. The DSP processing compensates for this and other effects by modifying the frequency response of the back drivers.
Posted by: cb919

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/11/12 10:50 AM

I have been reading this thread and trying to learn, but I'll be honest and say my 1000 foot view of these speakers is muddy at best. Mark touched on this before when he asked about room acoustics, but that's where my logic falls apart.

With the DSP, I understand that you can get around the cancellation effects of front and back drivers and get the family of curves approaching optimum in an anechoic chamber. But doesn't that all go out the window as soon as you introduce room acoustics/reflections? Andrew (or anybody who actually understands this), can you explain to a dumb@ss like myself how all that careful DSP mapping in controlled conditions still has benefit when introduced to a real listening environment? To be clear, i am not being critical, I just don't understand. I still very much want to hear these bad boys since I missed them at the show (friggin Utah trip mad)

Thanks!
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/11/12 12:12 PM

Originally Posted By: cb919
I have been reading this thread and trying to learn, but I'll be honest and say my 1000 foot view of these speakers is muddy at best. Mark touched on this before when he asked about room acoustics, but that's where my logic falls apart.

With the DSP, I understand that you can get around the cancellation effects of front and back drivers and get the family of curves approaching optimum in an anechoic chamber. But doesn't that all go out the window as soon as you introduce room acoustics/reflections? Andrew (or anybody who actually understands this), can you explain to a dumb@ss like myself how all that careful DSP mapping in controlled conditions still has benefit when introduced to a real listening environment? To be clear, i am not being critical, I just don't understand. I still very much want to hear these bad boys since I missed them at the show (friggin Utah trip mad)

Thanks!


While the room is ultimately on your end, the family curves are very important to predict how the speaker will ultimately sound in a room because they deal with the direct, early reflected and late reflected sound of the speaker. The direct, first and late arrivals is ultimately makes up what we hear.




Posted by: cb919

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/11/12 06:44 PM

OK, I'm still blurry on this but that helps. Does this hold for an analogy - kinda like performance tuning a car, it may perform better or worse depending on environmental conditions (temp, moisture etc...) but in general will perform better when tuned than in untuned stock trim?
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/13/12 05:14 PM

I want a head to head test against my M100 prototype..


Posted by: Dduval

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/13/12 05:32 PM

^ LOL!
Posted by: avjunkee

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/13/12 05:44 PM

Originally Posted By: SirQuack
I want a head to head test against my M100 prototype..




You're still one or two woofers short.
Posted by: Hansang

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/14/12 11:37 AM

Do the LFRs require four channels of amplification? In reading the brochure, it sounds like it. Or does the dedicated amp/dsp that come with it take care of that? I would assume so since not too many AVRs can free-assign four front channels. Just trying to make sure. thank you.

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I don't often follow this forum and this thread is quite long.
Posted by: avjunkee

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/14/12 12:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Hansang
Do the LFRs require four channels of amplification? In reading the brochure, it sounds like it. Or does the dedicated amp/dsp that come with it take care of that? I would assume so since not too many AVRs can free-assign four front channels. Just trying to make sure. thank you.

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I don't often follow this forum and this thread is quite long.


Yes, four additional channels of amplification are required.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/14/12 12:06 PM

But you don't need 4 channels of pre-amp.
Posted by: avjunkee

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/14/12 12:11 PM

No, good point.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/14/12 09:34 PM

The DSP unit is a processor with no amplification function.
Posted by: Hansang

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/15/12 12:49 AM

Thanks for the info guys.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/15/12 03:32 AM

Bought a Krell FPB 300cx to power my front speakers when i get the new towers...


Here is a review of the 300c, the X is suppose to "sound better".... not sure if i would be able to hear any difference.....


http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/krell_fpb300c.htm
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/15/12 03:52 AM

And you tease me about my PC's....spending four times the amount of the speakers is overkill. laugh
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/15/12 10:52 AM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
And you tease me about my PC's....spending four times the amount of the speakers is overkill. laugh


Yes, yes it is, Mr. B. It is also what makes it quite awesome.

Rock on, Dak, rock on!
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/15/12 12:13 PM

Originally Posted By: BobKay
Originally Posted By: SBrown
And you tease me about my PC's....spending four times the amount of the speakers is overkill. laugh


Yes, yes it is, Mr. B. It is also what makes it quite awesome.

Rock on, Dak, rock on!

Indeed. Hey Dak. Can we visit your neighbours and ask you to crank it to 11?
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/15/12 12:39 PM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
And you tease me about my PC's....spending four times the amount of the speakers is overkill. laugh


I bought it pre-owed (aka used), a dealer got it on trade in and was hoping to break even, the dealer had it on ebay, and had sent me his phone number to ask my questions, long story short.. a sure thing and no ebay fees= a sold amp, this was the dealer that originally sold the amp in december 05, the original owner was one of those guys who as a 50-100k$ a year budget on audio stuff. So, i paid 4,050$ including palletized shipping.. And, this amp will drive pretty much anything, and should last 25+ years.. It also has the Exact same gain as my current amps, so it will play nicely with the others.


Originally Posted By: fredk
Indeed. Hey Dak. Can we visit your neighbours and ask you to crank it to 11?



Actually, it's funny you bring that up.. My neighbor to the East has a HT, i have been grillin in the back yard at 9-10pm before, and could hear explosions from his HT, so he may be jealous if you did that... smile
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/15/12 04:57 PM

Good deal bud, I can't fathom 10,000$ audio anything....except maybe speakers and that would be my first choice. Happy listening.Cheers!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/15/12 05:55 PM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
Good deal bud, I can't fathom 10,000$ audio anything....except maybe speakers and that would be my first choice. Happy listening.Cheers!



Sooo, have you bought the added amplification needed yet????
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/15/12 08:00 PM

Yes I did, I had two Outlaw mono's and I bought two more and they threw in a fifth for free. So my whole front soundstage will be powered by the same amplification. grin

I also bought some really nice speaker cables, but you guys don't want to hear about them. wink
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/15/12 08:22 PM

Originally Posted By: SBrown

I also bought some really nice speaker cables, but you guys don't want to hear about them. wink


Pic's or it didn't happen....


I have to buy another pair of speaker cable's... I am going to go the DIY route though... AV-outlet cables.

the 10-2 cables
http://www.av-outlet.com/en-us/dept_453.html
with the red and black cover.
http://www.av-outlet.com/en-us/dept_442.html

I need to get spade connectors though, as the banana plug connectors that i currently have aren't that great...

i am thinking of switching to the silver plated spade connectors...
http://www.av-outlet.com/en-us/dept_429.html

I assembled the speaker cables myself, it was a nice little project...

I will take some photos when i get everything put together.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/15/12 09:52 PM

You guys know that you're making the rest of us envious, right? wink
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/15/12 10:27 PM

Dak,
I have never had good luck with spade connectors. The very best connectors I have ever used were Neutrik banana plugs. The only problem is they don't fit the pioneer so I can only use them on the speakers. They fit incredibly good.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?c...CMAM#ps-sellers
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/15/12 10:41 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
Originally Posted By: fredk
Indeed. Hey Dak. Can we visit your neighbours and ask you to crank it to 11?



Actually, it's funny you bring that up.. My neighbor to the East has a HT, i have been grillin in the back yard at 9-10pm before, and could hear explosions from his HT, so he may be jealous if you did that... smile

That is funny. Sounds like a good neighbour to have given all the horsepower and speakers you have. He probably doesn't object to hearing the odd rumble from your direction either.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/18/12 04:43 PM

The next LFR blog is posted - I wanted to know why the backs of the LFR1100 were angled, so I asked Andrew . . .

. . . why are the backs of the LFR1100 angled?
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/23/12 08:15 PM

I was wondering how hot(or not) the DSP unit runs, so I can figure out a space for it. Thank you!
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/24/12 12:05 AM

I guess that's a silly question, considering it's a closed unit. I figured out where to put it anyway, thanks.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/24/12 06:52 AM

It does have venting, but it gives off little in the way of heat. Just allow a space of an inch or so above it and you're good to go!
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/24/12 08:48 AM

Thanks Andrew!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/24/12 11:40 AM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
It does have venting, but it gives off little in the way of heat. Just allow a space of an inch or so above it and you're good to go!


I am planning on stacking my processor on mine, the feet of the processor are about 1/2" tall.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/24/12 10:16 PM

You should be fine from a heat standpoint. The only issue might be hum or noise due to the proximity of the processor power supply, although this has not been an issue even with large power amps nearby.
Posted by: Adelin

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/25/12 05:48 PM

Hello,
Behind the walls where i placed the speackers i have a kitchen.

I just set for the first time my m80 speackers 23.6 inch away from the rear wall.

I walk inside my house from kitchen to music room:

This change everything.
More depth and now i can listen music without thinking it's comming from the speackers.

About bass i had a full corridor dead zone in center of my rectangular room shape.
Now bass spread almost anywhere inside the first floor.

I think i understand the LFR1100 and dsp switch role now.

One of the Goals to get LFR1100 over m80 design is to help improve soundfield inside halls and rooms where you can let speackers breath anyway right ?
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/25/12 11:52 PM

You are so true, Adelin. I have mine around 20" from the wall and it is bliss!
Posted by: cohesion

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 04/26/12 11:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
Originally Posted By: cohesion
Good point. I've also asked about an option to support two centres (VP160/80) and Andrew hinted that they might produce an LFR centre.


I did?


OK, sorry Andrew I think I must have misread your earlier comment. Regardless, is there any need for an 'LFR' centre at all? My guess is for typical movie soundtracks there might be little benefit but what about music, especially multi-channel music? Thanks!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/01/12 08:50 PM

Andrew, why were the front tweeters placed at the top of the tower, rather than centering them, with the other drivers above and below? To make the towers symmetrical there would be a need for 4 6 1/2" drivers instead of the current 3..

My question is coming from the design of the Dynaudio Evidence towers.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/02/12 05:54 PM

This is always exciting!!

Posted by: Milford3

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/02/12 08:01 PM

Pics, Pics, Pics, Please!!
Posted by: Murph

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/03/12 12:19 PM

Mark is crossposting again!!!
I wonder what other crossstuff he partakes in?

Kidding Buddy. [Insert Seinfeld voice here] Not that there is anything wrong with that.........
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/07/12 08:48 PM

Clatu
Posted by: majik

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/08/12 10:52 AM

I love this! I'm gonna post this on my Facebook for sure with a link to Axiom so all my friends out there will know how to justify the purchase!

This is great! thanks for sharing
Posted by: Murph

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/08/12 04:19 PM

Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
Clatu


clatu verata nictu ?
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/14/12 12:20 PM

Does anyone know when the frequency response graphs will be available? I was looking at James Tanners' new model T graphs; and was wondering what the LFR's graphs were going to look like, similar i would assume?
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/14/12 01:00 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
Does anyone know when the frequency response graphs will be available? I was looking at James Tanners' new model T graphs; and was wondering what the LFR's graphs were going to look like, similar i would assume?


As the LFR's are omni-directional they might not follow the same rules as the model T's at least in terms of frequency response because the LFR's have both front and back drive units.

I would assume the power response will be much different as well since they are omni-directional and the model T is forward radiating.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/14/12 01:03 PM

Originally Posted By: BlueJays1
Originally Posted By: dakkon
Does anyone know when the frequency response graphs will be available? I was looking at James Tanners' new model T graphs; and was wondering what the LFR's graphs were going to look like, similar i would assume?


As the LFR's are omni-directional they might not follow the same rules as the model T's at least in terms of frequency response because the LFR's have both front and back drive units.


Hrm... This whole omni-directional thing is throwing all kinds of kinks in my rudimentary understanding of this audio stuff!!!.... grrrzzzz...

I guess i will just wait until mine arrive and enjoy them then..
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/14/12 08:17 PM

I wouldn't over do it,they are going to be kick a$$ mains. You can always tweak the equipment later!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/14/12 11:04 PM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
You can always tweak the equipment later!


Bro, after buying my new amp im freaking BrOkE... But, its WELL worth it grin
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/15/12 12:32 AM

I know what you mean Alex, buying everything in "pairs" gets expensive. I do want to get a four channel 1500 for the LFR's, but it will be awhile for that.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/17/12 11:09 AM

Didn't you just buy 2 more outlaw monoblocks??? I guess you should have waited like you were originally going to do.....


Originally Posted By: SBrown
buying everything in "pairs" gets expensive.

Gota "pay to play"!!...

{rest of post deleted, because it was WAY off topic wink }
Posted by: Ian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/20/12 01:00 PM

Below are the Listening Window and Sound Power curves of the LFR1100. Just a couple of little tweaks left to try and then we will put them on the specs page.

The positioning of the drivers is something we have done extensive experiments with; the results showed that the tweeters up-top was the favoured location.


Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/20/12 01:45 PM

Pretty graph, even if I don't know exactly what it means.
Posted by: Gary Vose Sr

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/20/12 02:58 PM

Flat lines on Audio Frequency Graph Charts, very good.
flat lines on E.K.G. Frequency Graph Charts, not so good.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/20/12 05:13 PM

Wow, that is outstanding Ian. Very happy to have these fine speakers coming.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/20/12 05:21 PM

Is it time for another blog post? One explaining listening window and sound power. grin
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/20/12 05:46 PM

that looks excellent. :-)
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/20/12 07:01 PM

Here is Brystons graphs for their speakers.


The Model T's appear to have more low end responce, but then again they are using 3 8" woofers. Also, i think James said the price would be around 10k$ a pair, which i think is a fair price for the amount of product that you would get.. They are also active speakers, but require 3 channels of amplification per speaker, so they also have 3 channels of cross over as well.. So, for 2 channels of amplification, and 1/5 the cost i think the LFR's are a very good deal, and that is without even taking into consideration the rear speakers.. for 6kish$, you could have a pair of LFR's as well as a pair of EP-600's...



Thanks for the Graph Ian... Can anyone explain what if any affect the rear speakers have on the graph? more specifically, addressing BlueJays1's post about the omni directional and the spl graph.

Thanks.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/20/12 09:33 PM

Ian, looks good. What were the measurement conditions? E.g., all anechoic; any correction for lowest bass inaccuracy in anechoic chamber; resolution(1/20th octave smoothing, etc.); number of microphone positions and angular variations measured, etc.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/20/12 10:01 PM

John. How useful would anechoic measurements be with rear firing speakers? Even if you could measuere at more than one position in an anechoic chamber, what would that tell you about how the sound combines in a real room at the listening position?
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/20/12 10:08 PM

Alex, the rear speakers should have no effect on the listening window curve. The measurements taken for that can vary, but typically they're anechoic measurements taken on axis and about 10 degrees above and below axis and possibly 10, 20 and 30 degrees to left and right of axis. So, those frontal response measurements should not reflect(pun intended)the contribution of the rear speakers, which would be absorbed by the anechoic chamber wedges.

The sound power curve is significantly affected, since that's an attempt to measure omnidirectional output at numerous angles(Dr. Toole speaks of using 70), front, back, up, down, side to side. This is sometimes done using a "typical" listening room rather than an anechoic chamber, but an anechoic chamber can also be used for an omnidirectional measurement by varying the position of the speaker so that a large number of angles to the microphone are taken into account and an omnidirectional result is obtained from direct measurements, despite the reflections being absorbed.

In general, the closer the sound power curve is to the listening window curve, the more nearly omnidirectional is the speaker. Looking at both graphs, the LFR appears to have an edge in that respect, although it isn't known if the measurement conditions differed.

Note that the anechoic chamber bass measurements aren't accurate below about 80Hz(because of the size of the wedges)and so the 70Hz flat LFR number may not be fairly compared to the 35Hz flat Model T number. Possibly one or both of the measurements have had a calibration adjustment applied to the lowest bass numbers to increase their accuracy.

Incidentally, I will say that looking at the all black Axiom drivers that Tanner shows on one model, they strike me as being more attractive than the present Axiom standard issue, and something that might be considered for adoption in Axiom models.

Edit: Fred, the above reply might partially answer your question. It appears that if they spin the speaker around to a large number of angles in the chamber(e.g., 70 per Dr.Toole), they consider this result to be in adequately close agreement with live listening room numbers.





Posted by: Ian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/21/12 08:13 AM

The curves in the graph were taken in our anechoic chamber with no smoothing applied. We do apply a correction below 80 Hz to take into account chamber inaccuracies that occur below this frequency but we do not do the final design of the low frequencies in the anechoic chamber. These are done on the tower. After the bass design is complete utilizing the tower we can write a custom correction for the chamber to give us an exact replica of the tower measurements below 80 Hz. This allows us to get the whole picture from the measurements taken in the anechoic chamber.

Designing a speaker is all about the family of curves. There are around 70 basic curves to consider when doing a speaker design and then, as you start to factor in various microphone positions, this number grows in multiples and you can easily end up with over 200 curves to consider. Understanding the family of curves and their relationship to the listening experience is the key to designing great-sounding speakers. This is where Double Blind Listen Testing is so invaluable. The only way to know how changes to various curves affect the end listening experience is the empirical test results that come from endless Double Blind Listen Testing.

The omnidirectional multi-channel design of the LFR1100 gives us much more control over the entire family of curves: a control which is made possible by having the DSP in the mix. The LFR1100 is not designed to be 100% omnidirectional which would mean the sound power and the listening window would be essentially the same curve, and not one you would want to have equal energy at all frequencies. It is instead a blend of front-firing only and 100% omnidirectional designs, a sort of cherry picking of the best attributes of both designs.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/21/12 01:26 PM

Thanks for the replies John and Ian. I have to admit, I'm intriged by the LFR's.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 05/21/12 09:13 PM

Ian, thanks for the info.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/02/12 06:47 AM

So I'm excited that this is the month when the new speakers will actually end up in the hands of mortals. May there be zero courier mishaps.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/02/12 11:45 AM

Now you jinxed us CV, I just noticed that the "cutomize yours" page doesn't show up properly on the LFR's.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/02/12 11:53 AM

Oh, you guys didn't hear? Axiom canceled this project to mass-produce cube and bass-module speakers! grin
Posted by: Gary Vose Sr

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/02/12 12:12 PM

I haven't been following all that closely, I know of a couple. But approximately how many members have committed too purchase these new speakers. The more personal hands on reviews the better. I will be eagerly awaiting as will all of us.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/02/12 08:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Gary Vose Sr
I haven't been following all that closely, I know of a couple. But approximately how many members have committed too purchase these new speakers. The more personal hands on reviews the better. I will be eagerly awaiting as will all of us.


I'm getting them. I'm being boring and just getting them in Boston Cherry and the normal stamped steel instead of die cast. I'm getting a new Axiom amplifier along with them, so it should be fun. Now if I just had a better room for them....
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/02/12 11:49 PM

Fanboy
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/03/12 08:05 AM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
Now you jinxed us CV, I just noticed that the "cutomize yours" page doesn't show up properly on the LFR's.


So sorry about that! Steve's got it fixed now.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/03/12 10:22 AM

NP Amie, just wanted to let you know.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/12/12 12:44 AM

Can't wait for Friday to hear about stuff shipping out. Any last-minute reveals on details? Did I miss it where approximate weights of the DSPs and the new amplifiers were mentioned? I should probably know, since I already jumped the gun and bought a couple of little stands to put them on, but they're only rated for 50 lbs. If a 4-channel amp along with a DSP weigh more than 50 lbs, I may have to figure something else out. Oh, I could always switch out what's on the shelf to the little stands.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/12/12 12:31 PM

I was just writing about the launch in the newsletter - everyone's working like crazy for it right now. So exciting! We'll try to get some pics for you! And I've asked Ian for some info on weights for you.

So close now!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/12/12 12:40 PM

Crap, I have to rearrange my entire equipment rack Soon... I thought i had another month!.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/12/12 01:58 PM

Jeez, that must be awful! You have my sympathy! wink
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/12/12 02:03 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Jeez, that must be awful! You have my sympathy! wink



It is!, Thanks Mark grin
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/12/12 02:13 PM

I was going to buy a Ferrari, but then I'd have to wax it and stuff..... wink
Posted by: medic8r

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/12/12 02:31 PM

Thanks, Mark, now I know what I'm getting for my birthday! I don't mind washing and waxing.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/12/12 02:37 PM

Originally Posted By: medic8r
I don't mind washing and waxing.

You're still talking about a car, right? grin
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/12/12 03:32 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Originally Posted By: medic8r
I don't mind washing and waxing.

You're still talking about a car, right? grin


Wax on, wack of, J.P.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/12/12 05:11 PM

JP, I just learned that there were 300 "General Lee's" used during "Dukes..." filming. (True)

I'll bet there's one out there with your name on it and you can ditch that nasty old Nissan. How fitting and impressive for a doctor to have a collectible as his everyday car.

If you can't find one, I KNOW that there are a bunch of Oscar Mayer Weinermobiles around the country. Finally! Something both you AND your shoes can travel in together!

Your shoes could have changed the course of history! Seriously, if JFK had been commanding one of your shoes instead of PT109, no one would have gotten injured or killed, so he'd never have written "Profiles in Courage" and Nixon would have won in 1960!
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/12/12 06:37 PM

Bubba Watson bought the "General Lee" at the B/J auction, which is the No.1 car.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/12/12 06:38 PM

Ummmmm, could I get some more info on that auction?
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/12/12 06:49 PM

Look up his Website, man you guys are lazy! grin
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/12/12 08:02 PM

Hey, Sean... can you send me a pair of 10' speaker cables...
mmmmk, thanks.


Ordered my XLR's today! Only need speaker calbes now and to pull my little 2 channel out of my bed room closet and put it in the rack...
Posted by: INANE

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/12/12 10:09 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
I was going to buy a Ferrari, but then I'd have to wax it and stuff..... wink


How funny, me too!
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/12/12 10:40 PM

I don't have any 10', but I did order two pair of 8' from VooDoo cable. I bought the Velocity for the highs and the Evolution for the lows. That is what Richard suggested for the LFR's, so that is what I bought.

I still need to buy my XLR cables, but am going to wait until I know what length to buy. Then I am done spending money on this endless pit of a hobby, I hope!(knock on wood)
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/12/12 10:48 PM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
I don't have any 10', but I did order two pair of 8' from VooDoo cable. I bought the Velocity for the highs and the Evolution for the lows. That is what Richard suggested for the LFR's, so that is what I bought.

I still need to buy my XLR cables, but am going to wait until I know what length to buy. Then I am done spending money on this endless pit of a hobby, I hope!(knock on wood)


This hobby costs MUCH less than others... believe me..

Some 8 footers might work, have him send me a pair as well. That will be ok, i suppose.......
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/12/12 11:04 PM

Don't you need two pair?
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/13/12 12:02 AM

yeah, on second though have mark send another pair.



Thanks for pointing that out.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/13/12 08:21 AM

Uh... you bought a pair of cable for the lows and a pair for the highs, but aren't the LFRs set up for front and back, not low and high?
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/13/12 10:14 AM

Frequencies Kenneth! laugh
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/13/12 10:52 AM

But... there's no separate terminals for woofers and mids/tweeters, right?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/13/12 10:56 AM

Ah, I see you must have paid extra for the bi-wiring posts.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/13/12 10:58 AM

Wow. So if someone has bi-wiring posts and ALSO needs cables for front/back speakers...we're talking what? Sixty-seven cables per speaker?

COOL! grin
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/13/12 12:36 PM

Mark, have you ordered my cables yet? i didn't get the bi wiring posts..... So i just need 2 pair... Thanks.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/13/12 03:44 PM

Hum it with me, everyone!

"The first cut is the deepest,baby I know. . ."



Posted by: BobKay

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/13/12 03:47 PM

Cool, Amie! CNC rules! Cat Stevens, too!
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/13/12 03:53 PM

{grin} Bob, you may want to refresh your page - I just fixed the 'double vision' error.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/13/12 08:06 PM

Amie, i think someone from the factory should post a couple progress photos through Friday... But, that is just me.


P.S. I ordered another pair of speaker cables today. So, Mark if you haven't ordered me a pair of cables yet it's ok, I will still be able to use my speakers when they arrive.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/14/12 12:53 PM

Oh boy they're tall . . . we're going to have to put a safety light on John so we can find him in the forest of LFR1100s! Here are the first ones to hit the prep line:



and


Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/14/12 01:00 PM

Amie, it looks like you made mine and no one else's? whistle
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/14/12 01:03 PM

Roh-rooh . . . uh . . . the beech pair is back in the woodshop still . . . uh . . . not visible in this pic . . .
Posted by: Woodrow

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/14/12 01:05 PM

Is that a cheap, portable radio I see on the table?? OH, THE HUMANITY! And I thought Axiom cared for their employees. wink
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/14/12 01:18 PM

I think the best way to describe the sound in the factory is 'cacophony' . . . Ian actually tugged me out of the woodshop this morning as I was rocking out to some pop playing on the M80s in there. . . the shipping department plays something I would put in the 'death metal' category on their M80s. . . and all places in between make their own choices. Noreen tried to talk us into all country, all the time, but so far support has been lukewarm. Of course she should get first say since she's been with Axiom the longest! Just sayin' . . .
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/14/12 01:27 PM

i propose that you play everywhere in the factory, all the time, this famous song that soothes humans and kills martians:
Slim Whitman - Indian Love Call.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/14/12 01:39 PM

I'm worried that the mating call 'chorus' could attract some of our plentiful wildlife looking for some mates . . . Everybody now! "Woooo oooowee oooowe oweoooooo"
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/14/12 02:04 PM

I see mine, yayyy!
Posted by: whippersnapper

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/14/12 06:12 PM

Amie, you better tell someone that they built 'em upside down!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/14/12 07:16 PM

Steve, are yours the odd ball ones?
Posted by: exlabdriver

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/14/12 11:35 PM

I was there to see the first LFRs being born today as well. Our party of 4 had a very nice visit with Debbie & Ian who gave us the deluxe version of their tour that even included some frequency sweeps in their anechoic chamber. We also had the pleasure of meeting Amie who was soon off to take the above pics of the special event.

It ended with Ian leaving us in their listening room with a pair of LFRs to audition for as long as we wanted. I played a couple of tunes from my favourite Eric Clapton's 'Clapton' CD. All I can say is - wonderful, smooth sound. I believe that this model definitely will be a winner.

I'll post some pics next week when I get home...

TAM
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/15/12 12:17 AM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
Shawn, are yours the odd ball ones?



Stupid typo's.. i need to rest a bit after coming inside before posting from now on..
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/15/12 01:19 AM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
Originally Posted By: dakkon
Shawn, are yours the odd ball ones?






You could say that!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/15/12 01:45 AM

Amie, are all the sets that are currently being manufactured sold?
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/15/12 05:20 AM

Yes, the whole first run is sold out. Yea!
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/15/12 05:59 AM

Originally Posted By: exlabdriver
I was there to see the first LFRs being born today as well. Our party of 4 had a very nice visit with Debbie & Ian who gave us the deluxe version of their tour that even included some frequency sweeps in their anechoic chamber. We also had the pleasure of meeting Amie who was soon off to take the above pics of the special event.

It ended with Ian leaving us in their listening room with a pair of LFRs to audition for as long as we wanted. I played a couple of tunes from my favourite Eric Clapton's 'Clapton' CD. All I can say is - wonderful, smooth sound. I believe that this model definitely will be a winner.

I'll post some pics next week when I get home...

TAM


It was so great to get a chance to meet you! I hope you enjoyed your tour and had a great trip through the Park afterwards - what a perfect Muskoka day! Glad you had a chance to listen to the new speakers, too!
Posted by: exlabdriver

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/15/12 09:36 AM

Amie, we had a great lunch at 'The Cottage' on the river in Huntsville with an old airforce friend from Sudbury who met us there. The weather couldn't have been better for our drive back to Ottawa through Algonquin Park. While I had flown over that area years ago, that was our first time driving though that part of our country - simply stunning!

The only problem was - the 'locals' got to all of the sticky buns at 'Henrietta's' before we did, so I had to settle for one of her wonderful brownies.

I highly recommend that area for a holiday & while you're at it, stop in to meet the fine folks at Axiom as well...

TAM
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/15/12 04:37 PM

Got all the equipment that i have in place.


After getting everything situated, i realized that i will need 3 6foot interconnects to reach 2 of the amps... The only place left for the DSP box will be on the top right under the turn table..... This was about an hour long game to get everything to fit, and have enough room to breath.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/15/12 08:15 PM

All that heat is going to melt those albums as they play,LOL.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/15/12 08:42 PM

That's why I want to get The DSP in place, Then measure the correct lenghts. I hate overatures.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/15/12 08:45 PM

I though that i was going to be able to put all 3 amps on the bottom half.. However when i started to do that, they were almost sitting on top of each other.. Each amps normal operating temperature is about 110 degrees, so they do need a decent amount of breathing room.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/16/12 12:20 AM

None of my stuff was ready to ship today, so the wait may destroy me yet.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/16/12 12:35 AM

Originally Posted By: CV
None of my stuff was ready to ship today, so the wait may destroy me yet.


Bro, you should have lost track of time like me. I view the situation as were getting them a month early smile.

i wonder who the other 2 pair are for.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/19/12 05:53 PM

Amie, photos of todays progress?
Posted by: Gary Vose Sr

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/19/12 10:11 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
Amie, photos of todays progress?



Now Alex, patience is a virtue. But if I was in your situation ... I would be antsy too. smirk
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/19/12 10:36 PM

Gary, today was DSP assembly day..

I just got my extra 10 gauge speaker cables in today, need to assemble them tomorrow. I don't even know where i'm going to put my M60's yet, so i am not in a HUGE rush.. grin
Posted by: solarrdadd

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/20/12 08:35 AM

dakkon, please, please, please take pictures of every stage of everything so we can see what's what as you give a review. hook the rest of us up!

please & thank you!
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/20/12 08:46 AM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
Amie, photos of todays progress?


Just waiting for the film to be developed! ;-)

Man oh man these speakers sound AMAZING! I was doing an isometric wall chair hold well off-axis, and even in that focused state it was clear when Ian was switching between A and B in our living room. The voices seemed to blossom. Just loving these!
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/20/12 09:42 AM

Just wondering... What does a voice sound like when it blossoms?
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/20/12 09:54 AM

Originally Posted By: CatBrat
Just wondering... What does a voice sound like when it blossoms?


It's like from "Ahh to Ahhhhhh. laugh
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/20/12 10:04 AM

Exactly!

Or like this video, around the 20 second mark:



Didja hear it open up and get bigger?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/20/12 10:32 AM

So the speakers are "flowery"?
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/20/12 10:59 AM

Originally Posted By: Amie
Exactly!

Or like this video, around the 20 second mark:



Didja hear it open up and get bigger?


I think I just got grossed out.
Posted by: medic8r

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/20/12 03:00 PM

What, you never seen it gape like that?
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/20/12 05:04 PM

Did you just... dude.
Posted by: Ian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/20/12 08:22 PM

Today was LFR1100 day at the factory. It has been a wicked amount of work for everyone at Axiom getting all the final details required for this production run in order. Pictured below are SBrown’s pair ready to go for testing. I will be testing these myself in the big anechoic chamber in the morning along with Dakkon’s pair.


Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/20/12 08:28 PM

They're looking great, Ian.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/20/12 11:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Ian
... I will be testing these myself in the big anechoic chamber in the morning along with Dakkon’s pair.

Cool! You're getting the special Ian Colquhoun tested and signed edition. whistle
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/20/12 11:44 PM

yayayaya, i knew there were some photos! Good job getting them developed Amie wink

Now, i will have time to assemble my other set of speaker cables.


Thanks for the update Ian.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/21/12 01:12 AM

Shawn.. So close, yet so far!... at least i can not see my pair..
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/21/12 02:13 AM

Wow, you guys got to see them before I did. I am happy to see Ian on the front lines. smile You folks at Axiom are terrific, I tell ya! Whoohooooo.....
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/21/12 02:23 AM

Hey Alex, not to long before we rip up the neighborhood. grin
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/21/12 09:10 AM

Originally Posted By: Ian
Today was LFR1100 day at the factory. It has been a wicked amount of work for everyone at Axiom getting all the final details required for this production run in order. Pictured below are SBrown’s pair ready to go for testing. I will be testing these myself in the big anechoic chamber in the morning along with Dakkon’s pair.



Ian, I like your micromanagement business model. You even know that you're supposed to keep your hands in your pants, so as to appear incapable of physical labor, You go!
Posted by: Murph

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/21/12 09:55 AM

I'm more concerned about the sheep that seems to be wagging it's tail in the left edge of the photo.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/21/12 10:08 AM

What's those tall thing-i-ma-bobs with the speakers it?



(Just kidding)
Posted by: Ian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/21/12 06:46 PM

Today was LFR1100 day at the factory; again. Lots of testing and setting up of the production line mini-chamber for making perfect replicas. And of course the signing of the LFR1100s. Pictured are the two first pairs destined for SBrown’s, Dakkon’s living rooms.



Here I am signing S.Brown's LFRs



Here is Andrew signing dakkon's LFRs



Here are the signatures in case you want to forge them on your own speakers.



Here is a real maple pair going down the line. You can see lots of construction details in this shot.


Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/21/12 06:55 PM

I was hoping you guys would get a picture of that Ian. I thought pictures would be nice, but now it's killing me to wait for this pleasure.
Thanks Axiom!

Shawn
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/21/12 08:09 PM

I love those pictures, Ian!

Part of what makes my relationship with Axiom satisfying is the same kind of thing that is energizing about a live music performance; the people involved are having a good time and have integrity.

Shawn, I'm really envious.
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/21/12 08:15 PM

i think what's being done here by Ian and Andrew is unheard of;
who has ever heard things like what's going on here?

SBrown and Dakkon, you're getting something very exciting that's a "once in a lifetime" thing.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/21/12 08:59 PM

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
I love those pictures, Ian!

Part of what makes my relationship with Axiom satisfying is the same kind of thing that is energizing about a live music performance; the people involved are having a good time and have integrity.

Shawn, I'm really envious.



Well said, Tom. It really does bring something extra to see Ian and everyone else at Axiom so excited about the new speakers.

The wait is almost over Shawn and Alex!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/21/12 10:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Ian



Here I am signing S.Brown's LFRs



Here is Andrew signing dakkon's LFRs



Here are the signatures in case you want to forge them on your own speakers.


Ian, did you happen to put a layer of lacquer to seal and protect the signatures?

I still need to assemble my second set of speaker cables, i think that will be on the "to do list" for tomorrow.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/22/12 12:09 AM

Originally Posted By: Ian


Don't jump, Ian! You still haven't mentioned mine!
Posted by: SatKartr

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/22/12 12:12 AM

Boy do I feel left out! Just had to sink 20k into a kitchen renovation due to a mold remediation problem, no LFRs for me! At least now we have granite countertops!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/22/12 12:23 AM

Originally Posted By: CV

Don't jump, Ian! You still haven't mentioned mine!


Don't feel left out man.

Do you have your amps/ interconnects/ and speaker cables ready??
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/22/12 12:33 AM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
Do you have your amps/ interconnects/ and speaker cables ready??


Speaker cables and interconnects I have covered, but as far as amps, no. I've ordered an Axiom ADA1500-4 to power the LFR1100s, but I won't be getting that until the end of July. The ADA1000-4 I'm getting to power my surrounds should be shipping a couple weeks before then, so I can at least try the LFRs out at that point.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/22/12 12:50 AM

Originally Posted By: CV
Speaker cables and interconnects I have covered, but as far as amps, no. I've ordered an Axiom ADA1500-4 to power the LFR1100s, but I won't be getting that until the end of July. The ADA1000-4 I'm getting to power my surrounds should be shipping a couple weeks before then, so I can at least try the LFRs out at that point.



Maybe you could ask Ian to hold your LFR's until your ADA1000 is ready.. This will prevent you from staring at your new speakers, going crazy wondering how they sound.


Just a though wink
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/22/12 12:59 AM

I told Amie I was in no rush on getting the speakers due to the amp situation, so we'll see what happens.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/22/12 01:11 AM

Seems like that makes at least 2 of us that are not in a huge rush. I would bet yours are part of the first production run..
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/22/12 01:17 AM

Oh, yes, I know mine are almost done from emails I've received. I don't know if I made the first ten, though.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/22/12 01:25 AM

Charles, if your speakers are also almost ready for shipping you don't necessarily have to wait for the amplifiers you're also ordered. Any receiver with the inputs would work fine and allow you to enjoy these great new speakers as soon as possible.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/22/12 09:40 AM

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
I love those pictures, Ian!

Part of what makes my relationship with Axiom satisfying is the same kind of thing that is energizing about a live music performance; the people involved are having a good time and have integrity.

Shawn, I'm really envious.



As I said before Tom, anytime you want to drop by for a beer,it would be my pleasure.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/22/12 11:46 AM

Originally Posted By: JohnK
Charles, if your speakers are also almost ready for shipping you don't necessarily have to wait for the amplifiers you're also ordered. Any receiver with the inputs would work fine and allow you to enjoy these great new speakers as soon as possible.


Also, you could aways just power the front speakers... for the time being.. I don't know if this is what John was talking about or not...
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/22/12 03:43 PM

I wonder if these are being shipped today? Hopefully.....
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/22/12 03:50 PM

it will go much faster if you don't think about it.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/22/12 04:13 PM

Thanks J.B. , I suppose another day or two won't kill me. smile
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/22/12 05:15 PM

Originally Posted By: J. B.
it will go much faster if you don't think about it.

!
Exactly, this is why i have been doing errands all day to work on my ridiculously over built outriggers!
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/22/12 07:34 PM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle

Shawn, I'm really envious.


As I said before Tom, anytime you want to drop by for a beer,it would be my pleasure.


Shawn, you are too kind. Thank you. We plan to (finally) get passports for the kids, and intend to make a long-delayed visit to Vancouver Island sometime "before too long". I will absolutely get in touch with you beforehand, and hopefully, we can share a beer and perhaps a listen.

I am really looking forward to reading about your experiences with the new speakers.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/22/12 09:40 PM

Alex, if you mean was I suggesting something that could only play the front drivers of the LFR, certainly not, since that wouldn't be what really makes them what they are. The L and R analog outputs of the player would connect to the DSP unit and the front DSP outputs to the front analog inputs of the Onkyo Charles has, then the back DSP outputs to the surround analog inputs. If the player had multi-channel analog outputs they could also be used direct to the receiver inputs.

You and Shawn are showing justified excitement over the shipment about to happen and there's no good reason why Charles can't join the party instead of waiting about a month.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/22/12 10:02 PM

Originally Posted By: JohnK
Alex, if you mean was I suggesting something that could only play the front drivers of the LFR, certainly not, since that wouldn't be what really makes them what they are. The L and R analog outputs of the player would connect to the DSP unit and the front DSP outputs to the front analog inputs of the Onkyo Charles has, then the back DSP outputs to the surround analog inputs. If the player had multi-channel analog outputs they could also be used direct to the receiver inputs.

You and Shawn are showing justified excitement over the shipment about to happen and there's no good reason why Charles can't join the party instead of waiting about a month.


Charles, how many channels of amplification do you have now? I was under the impression that you are currently using a receiver. If you have any type of outboard amplification, i say rock it out like John said. Forget surrounds for the time being! wink
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/22/12 10:05 PM

The Onkyo receiver Charles has is what I'm referring to.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/23/12 12:15 AM

I recently sold my OPPO BDP-83, and I'm waiting for a little while to get a new Blu-ray player. Right now I'm using my PS3 as my Blu-ray player, and I use my computer to listen to music most of the time, since I'm usually doing other stuff. In any case, while I could set up the PS3 to use the analog audio out and configure the Onkyo to at least try out the LFR1100s, it seems like a fair amount of hassle and would interfere with how I want things set up besides for music listening. I think I can be a little patient.

dakkon, I have an Emotiva XPA-3 that I'm using with my receiver.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/25/12 08:04 AM

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Shawn, you are too kind. Thank you. We plan to (finally) get passports for the kids, and intend to make a long-delayed visit to Vancouver Island sometime "before too long".


Pffft! That Island isn't even it's own province. I'm hurt Tom. I'm hurt.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/25/12 01:27 PM

You're also 6,000km away!

OTOH, Victoria is a 90 minute ferry ride from where my wife's parents live.

I guess I could ask them to move to PEI or New Brunswick or something, though. Good idea! I'll work on that.
Posted by: BBIBH

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/25/12 02:37 PM

yeah, you gotta love a province/island that has entirely built a tourist industry on the home and life of a character in a work of fiction!

..and if you are ever in northern New York state, make sure you visit Spiderman's cottage and boat launch! wink
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/25/12 02:44 PM

Originally Posted By: BBIBH
yeah, you gotta love a province/island that has entirely built a tourist industry on the home and life of a character in a work of fiction!

..and if you are ever in northern New York state, make sure you visit Spiderman's cottage and boat launch! wink


Aw, c'mon, Mike. You're acting like it's just an ordinary little white house with green shutters. ("What? Really? That IS all it is?")
Posted by: Murph

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/26/12 03:23 PM

Actually, it seems to be mostly just the Japanese who flock to come and see Anne. Lately, also the Chinese. It's required reading in the Japanese school system and they are truly obsessed.

But we are not entirely just Anne based. We also have some of the nicest beaches north of the Caribbean (of which only 2-4 months of the year are really warm enough to enjoy), world rated golf courses sucking money from my taxes for some reason, and yet another tourism industry based entirely on boiling alive a certain large crustacean.

So, ya, I guess it does sound kind of odd when you put it all together.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/26/12 03:36 PM

. . . the cleanest air . . . the loveliest early evening mists through the hills . . . the most beautiful red roads . . . the most charming people . . . the incomparable PEI potato chip dipped in Belgian chocolate . . . Ooops - drifted off course there! My computer wallpaper is from my last trip to PEI. It's such a gorgeous part of a very beautiful country.

And of course, for little Canadian girls like me, reading Anne was a right of passage! The thrill - the absolute thrill - when my family all loaded up into the car for a road trip out to PEI and a stop in Charlottetown to see the Anne play. I recently sent the series to a friend whose daughter just turned 10. L.M. Montgomery actually lived in Muskoka for a while and wrote a novel centered here as well. Funny coincidence.

'Course, maybe I'm just partial to redheads! smile
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/26/12 04:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
'Course, maybe I'm just partial to redheads! smile

I think Ken just added a last-minute side trip to his drive back from Indiana.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/27/12 01:41 AM

Back on topic!


Whoooohooo....just got shipping notice.Four packages,wow!
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/27/12 01:46 AM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
Back on topic!


Whoooohooo....just got shipping notice.Four packages,wow!


Awesome! Take pictures as soon as they arrive.
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/27/12 06:18 AM

Originally Posted By: CV
Originally Posted By: SBrown
Back on topic!


Whoooohooo....just got shipping notice.Four packages,wow!


Awesome! Take pictures as soon as they arrive.


he sure does not need to take pictures, he's got a photographic memory!
Posted by: cb919

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/27/12 09:44 AM

Awesome - i am excited for you! I wish I was receiving something new. Very cool, looking forward to reading your listening impressions. Enjoy.
Posted by: Gary Vose Sr

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/27/12 12:08 PM

I believe Axiom could be also working on some little brothers for this new speaker line. I mean it only makes sense in the progression of things. Too try to develop both a center, and surrounds using the same engineering that went into the loud speakers. If that is the case, a company won't generally tip it's hand until at least, they have a good working proto-type. In most cases, it would be even later than that. Closer to a point to where they could almost start to mass produce the new product. So does Axiom have this in works? Only time will tell.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/27/12 12:15 PM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
Back on topic!


Whoooohooo....just got shipping notice.Four packages,wow!


I wonder what the 4th package is, maybe the 4th is the hardware ect for the towers?

I think mine will be a few days, Jeff is cutting me a template for my outrigger project. I'm more than happy to wait, considering Jeff and Ian are going out of their way to help me.

Yes, Shawn. I second that you should take photos wink .. OR, have your wife take them.. Actually, that may be a better idea... You will not want to stop to take pictures....

One photo i think would be helpful Shawn, would be a shot of your LFR's next to your M80's, it seems like this would be a good point of reference. I will take a photo of my LFR's next to my M60's when they arrive.

Maybe someone at the factory could take a photo with the LFR's in the center, with an M80 on one side and a M60 on the other.. Reading random threads, everyone kind of wonders the size.. They are 47 1/2" tall, which is 10 inches taller than the M60's and 8" taller than the M80's.

But, as they say, a photo is worth 1,000 words grin
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/27/12 02:22 PM

I didn't have an M60 at hand, but here's a grainy cell phone shot I took of an LFR1100 next to an M80 for size comparison to send home to my fam:



(I know, other people send baby pics!)

The barrel distortion is from my phone, not the speaker seeming to 'swell in the top end'!
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/27/12 03:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
I didn't have an M60 at hand, but here's a grainy cell phone shot I took of an LFR1100 next to an M80 for size comparison to send home to my fam:



(I know, other people send baby pics!)

The barrel distortion is from my phone, not the speaker seeming to 'swell in the top end'!


Well they are kinda yours and ian's babies .
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/27/12 03:31 PM

I corrected the lens distortion for y'all. smile


Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/27/12 03:32 PM

Seriously? THIS is what you do with your spare time?
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/27/12 03:33 PM

Hey now. I just made a technical breakthrough at work, so I deserve a little break. smile
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/27/12 04:03 PM

Whoa - great! Thanks Peter - much better!

And we actually do feel like these are our babies! Everyone through the door gets handed a switch box and commanded to sit and play their favorite songs . . . good thing our friends are used to this by now!

I never thought the M80s would look undersized before, but I'm turning into a big speaker girl now!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/27/12 04:09 PM

Uh-oh, I sense a new forum member: BiG_Spkr_Grrrrrl
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/27/12 04:45 PM

Amie, you guys have an outdoor projector/theater set up?!?!?!?!?!?....
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/27/12 04:49 PM

@ Mark - no photoshopping please!! You know how BiG_Spkr_Grrrrrl likes to stay on the down-low . . .

@ Alex - it feels that way sometimes when the critters are watching movies with us! LOL! But no, just a whole lotta glass overlooking our beautiful lake. FYI the LFR1100s seem to scare the deer!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/27/12 05:05 PM

Damn! someone keeps their windows CLEAN.... at first i couldn't even tell there was a window there.....


Amie, no Deer in the 70's neighborhood i live in.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/28/12 11:55 PM

Hooray for my shipment notification. Now I'll be eagerly awaiting the notifications for my amps!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/29/12 12:13 AM

Originally Posted By: CV
Hooray for my shipment notification. Now I'll be eagerly awaiting the notifications for my amps!


!!!!!!!!! grin
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/29/12 05:12 AM

*Happy dance* So exciting!!! Remember to warm up before attempting to move the speakers! smile
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/29/12 06:38 AM

I had assumed the multi-day Happy Dance WAS the warm up!!??
Posted by: Murph

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/29/12 07:17 AM

Congrats!! We need videos of this "Happy Dance" !! Feel free to throw in some of those female friends of yours too. It could be like a Bollywood number.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/29/12 01:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Amie
*Happy dance* So exciting!!! Remember to warm up before attempting to move the speakers! smile


I can't wait! I took tuesday off so I could be home to help the Purolator guy with the 93lb boxes. grin I hope my ceilings are high enough to do the upside down trick. laugh
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/29/12 01:11 PM

Gahhh! You just got "Dancin' on the Ceiling" stuck in my head! LOL! So excited for you!

You and Mark have me thinking we need a new contest: Best Happy Dance Video!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 06/29/12 03:59 PM

Shawn, you could get one of these, it will make it there before your speakers with prime. Incase you need to make any alterations in your ceiling...



http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-6538-21-...lwaukee+sawzall
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/03/12 01:18 AM

Originally Posted By: SBrown


I can't wait! I took tuesday off so I could be home to help the Purolator guy with the 93lb boxes. grin I hope my ceilings are high enough to do the upside down trick. laugh


Shawn, I hope you got the battery for your camera charged!

I hope to get my shipping notice this week. So, for the time being i will have to live vicariously through you. However, due to the holiday being right in the middle of the week, my shipping conformation may not come until next week.

However, this is all conjecture on my part.
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/03/12 01:25 AM

we are having our holiday too so thats messing up things on our side of the border as well. You must be getting a little bit excited ??
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/03/12 01:53 AM

Excited ?? Who, me ......noooo! Just one more sleep,man. This is better than Christmas, has been a long wait since March 17th.
Posted by: stevej

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/03/12 11:45 AM

Good news and bad news.
First the good. My LFRs arrived yesterday after the long wait.
Now the bad, we live in Southeast Ohio and our electric went out after the storms on Friday and have been told we may not have ours back for another 7 to 10 days from today. Have not even opened the boxes yet. Oh well I guess I can stare at them for a few days.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/03/12 12:45 PM

Wow, the news stories look like you really had some brutal weather there and I can speak from experience that it is no fun to go for 7 days without electricity even when you are pretty well prepared, as we are. The 'camping out in a house' bit loses it's appeal after a few days.

Stay safe and I guess the good news is that your speakers arrived without golf ball sized hail holes in the boxes.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/03/12 12:57 PM

Man, that's a bummer. I hope it's 7 and not 10.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/03/12 01:28 PM

I have at least 1 battery operated fan at home after going a few days without electricity one summer.

Now, I've got a portable air conditioner unit. I need to purchase a generator for it though.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/03/12 02:16 PM

So, my estimated delivery date in July 10. We will see if the wildfires in the west, or the power outages in the east affect this date.. Considering what the people in the affected regions are going through, i think i can handel waiting for the fedex guy a little longer.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/03/12 02:24 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
Considering what the people in the affected regions are going through, i think i can handel waiting for the fedex guy a little longer.

While you're waiting, you can make a liszt of the things you're thankful for. Or maybe play some haydn seek with your dogs.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/03/12 03:01 PM

Still waiting.....the window is getting pretty oiled up from my nose.

I was sitting at the computer desk this morning and all of a sudden my chair was shaking, we had a wee bit of an earthquake going on. I thought I would never get to meet my LFR's.
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/03/12 03:20 PM

god damn planet is goin to fall apart before you guys get to hear your new speakers. Seriously though, hang in there guys . I could not imagine going without power for that long . My trouble are pretty damn small by comparison.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/03/12 03:53 PM

Originally Posted By: pmbuko
While you're waiting, you can make a liszt of the things you're thankful for. Or maybe play some haydn seek with your dogs.

Nice come Bach.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/03/12 04:05 PM

Originally Posted By: pmbuko
Originally Posted By: dakkon
Considering what the people in the affected regions are going through, i think i can handel waiting for the fedex guy a little longer.

While you're waiting, you can make a liszt of the things you're thankful for. Or maybe play some haydn seek with your dogs.


Oh, believe me i know the value of being in a safe suburban environment.. I'm a legally handicap disabled Veteran, i will leave it at that.
Posted by: stevej

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/03/12 04:08 PM

Hey guys, we really do have a lot to be thankful for. We are staying with our daughter and son-in-law in West Virginia right now. So we are staying cool here. We had no damage, just no electric. So not going to complain too much just because I can't listen to my speakers. A lot of people have no water or electric and are suffering in some really hot weather right now.
I have never seen such widespread power outages like this. All towns within 50 miles of us and everything between had no power. It is slowly coming back now.
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/03/12 08:33 PM

Originally Posted By: stevej
Good news and bad news.
First the good. My LFRs arrived yesterday after the long wait.
Now the bad, we live in Southeast Ohio and our electric went out after the storms on Friday and have been told we may not have ours back for another 7 to 10 days from today. Have not even opened the boxes yet. Oh well I guess I can stare at them for a few days.


how the heck are you on the internet without power. Unless you live on gilligans island and the professor has some coconuts rigged up.
Posted by: stevej

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/03/12 10:54 PM

Staying with family that got their power back up already. Going to be a long time for a lot of us getting power back. They are saying some could be as long as 4 weeks.
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/03/12 11:13 PM

Well it sounds as if your one of the lucky ones. Always good to have family.Is this kind of thing unsual for where you live or do people prepare for this.Sorry to hear you wont get to audition your new speaks for another month possibly.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/04/12 02:28 AM

I'm eager for Friday even if I don't get to try the speakers out that day.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/04/12 06:58 AM

Yeah, I'd also be excited to get them even if I couldn't hear them!
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/04/12 09:50 AM

Well, the Fedex guy finally showed up around half past noon yesterday. He hauled the boxes up to the front porch on a dolly and I carried them in the house up two steps.

I actually tweaked my back out doing that, as Amie says" warm up" first. So I got them into the house and opened the first box, got the outriggers out(which are very nice)and they went on inside the box.

I flipped the box upside down, low and behold they hit the ceiling taking them off,lol.If it was two inches lower I would have been hooped.

I opened the DSP box and took it out, man it's built like a tank, I likey! I looked around for a power cord but nothing was in there. I guess they knew I have an extra aftermarket PC for it. grin

I just have to find a spot for it and then measure up the XLR cables, order them, then wait some more.So I probably won't get them until next week some time, all I can do is admire them for now.

P.S.

I would just like to thank Ian, Amie, Andrew and all the crew for the wonderful gear. Thanks for throwing the center board in for me Ian.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/05/12 11:26 AM

Sorry about your luck, Steve, the weather is pretty brutal lately. At least you've got a cool place to stay in the meantime.
Posted by: cohesion

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/05/12 04:53 PM

Hi Everyone,

My condolances to those unable to listen to their new LFR's due to lack of electricity! Changing the subject a bit, I would be getting my pair soon but for a bit of a communication snafu (to which I was a party) regarding a custom wood finish I was considering. Due to various delays in this process I just got these details sorted.

In case any of you out there were wishing you got in on the preorder there may be one pair up for grabs in any finish you want as long as it's Boston Cheery. It seems while I thought my initial order was on hold while working on the possible finish options, Axiom was actually building them. Thus we may see a pair up for grabs in the Auction section unless Axiom has some other use for them - or one of the forum members does some good begging to the right people!
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/06/12 01:43 AM

I received the DSP and the accessories, and I anticipate getting the speakers tomorrow. Here are some pics of what I did get, though:








Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/06/12 02:11 AM

Oh, and the DSP seems to weigh 22.2 lbs.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/06/12 09:36 AM

That's awesome Charles, your missing the good boxes tho. How come you didn't get the center board for the DSP, unless your just using it for a 2-channel system.

Can someone explain the boundary correction to me again, I must have missed this. Hope you get your speakers today.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/06/12 12:20 PM

This thread is way to long for me to go looking back through it, so I'll look dumb and ask, what is the 'center board' for the DSP and what does it do?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/06/12 12:23 PM

It's a DSP for the center channel.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/06/12 12:28 PM

Ahh, thanks.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/06/12 12:44 PM

Right now I'm using an M22 for my center, but I don't know what I'll ultimately end up with. Could be a single M80, single VP180, or dual VP180s.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/06/12 12:49 PM

I would think dual VP180s are way overkill, unless you want to get three and out do JC. crazy
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/06/12 12:55 PM

Yes, overkill, but the point would be to anchor the sound to the center of the screen.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/06/12 01:03 PM

I have noooo problem with my VP160 doing that.
Posted by: Jc

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/06/12 02:51 PM

Originally Posted By: CV
Yes, overkill, but the point would be to anchor the sound to the center of the screen.


Hi,
You are more than welcome to do so . . .
Posted by: Jc

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/06/12 02:52 PM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
I would think dual VP180s are way overkill, unless you want to get three and out do JC. crazy


Hey ! Me crazy ? No , , , connaisseur ! ! !
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/06/12 05:15 PM

Originally Posted By: CV
I received the DSP and the accessories, and I anticipate getting the speakers tomorrow. Here are some pics of what I did get, though:


Charles,

would you mind taking a couple close up's of the feet please. They look like they are adjustable, machined aluminum/steel pieces, and not the injection molded rubber feed that came with pervious speakers.
Posted by: stevej

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/06/12 08:08 PM

Electric is back on and have the speakers in place but not ready to go yet. Will let you know when I get them hooked up and my first listen.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 02:12 AM

Alex, they are rubber feet with aluminum caps. Not adjustable.

Edit:

Not calling you crazy at all JC....wish I had your setup! smile
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 03:32 AM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
would you mind taking a couple close up's of the feet please. They look like they are adjustable, machined aluminum/steel pieces, and not the injection molded rubber feed that came with pervious speakers.


Here's one:



And the LFR1100 speakers have arrived:



I haven't opened them yet. The labels do indicate left and right, and they say v3. I didn't think they would need a v3 tacked on since they're a brand new line.

I'm tempted to pull them out right now, but on the other hand, I think I should be smart and wait until I have help.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 06:14 AM

So I was impatient and unpacked the LFR1100s. Mine WERE signed. Thanks, Ian and Andrew.

A couple of minor quibbles.... I'm pretty sure it's been complained about before, but the Axiom logo had already come off of one of the grills before I pulled the speaker out. Also, the pads that are glued onto the bottom of the feet aren't affixed very well. Two of them came off as I was putting them on the outriggers.

Otherwise, I like the outriggers. And the magnetic grills. I know, I already have some other v3 stuff, but it's still cool.

I forget who suggested it, but I did decide to go ahead and hook the LFRs up, sans DSP, so only the front drivers are operating. This way the person waiting on the M80s won't have to wait longer, and I'll have it all in place for when the amp comes. Even in this incomplete configuration, I'm impressed with the sound. Granted, the positioning isn't exactly the same. The LFR1100s are pulled a couple of inches forward from where the M80s were. And of course there's the thing about audio memory being garbage. That being said, I feel like I'm hearing the smoother sound that people have said was a difference between v2 and v3.

Anyway, I know this isn't how the speakers are meant to be used, so I'm still very eager to hear both the front and rear drivers in action as controlled by the DSP. Amplifier, amplifier, amplifier, amplifier. *wills it delivered*
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 06:28 AM

you should listen to them with only the back speakers connected.
the sound should be quite different than running only the front ones.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 06:28 AM

Ha ha, good call.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 06:29 AM


Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 10:12 AM

That is awesome, Charles! I'm excited for you.

Hope those amplifiers get delivered soon.
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 10:20 AM

from what i see on the photo, the back of the left speaker is towards some open space, much larger than for the right speaker; i think you should try to make that more even as i suspect you'll get very different sound from each speaker if they stay in this position.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 10:55 AM

Originally Posted By: J. B.
from what i see on the photo, the back of the left speaker is towards some open space, much larger than for the right speaker; i think you should try to make that more even as i suspect you'll get very different sound from each speaker if they stay in this position.


Yes, this is a problem, but unfortunately I have zero room to play with. What I'm going to do is construct something I can fill that entry with when I'm listening to anything seriously.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 11:09 AM

Originally Posted By: CV
Originally Posted By: J. B.
from what i see on the photo, the back of the left speaker is towards some open space, much larger than for the right speaker; i think you should try to make that more even as i suspect you'll get very different sound from each speaker if they stay in this position.


Yes, this is a problem, but unfortunately I have zero room to play with. What I'm going to do is construct something I can fill that entry with when I'm listening to anything seriously.


A floor to ceiling poster of Regina mounted on a partition made of MDF?
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 11:13 AM

Originally Posted By: St_PatGuy
A floor to ceiling poster of Regina mounted on a partition made of MDF?


You're a problem solver!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 12:10 PM

Charles, is that only a 2 channel Emotiva?
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 12:27 PM

Originally Posted By: CV

Yes, this is a problem, but unfortunately I have zero room to play with. What I'm going to do is construct something I can fill that entry with when I'm listening to anything seriously.


The first thing that came to my mind is a pocket door, I don't know if you have space in that wall or not...


Glad you hooked up the front drivers and can use them while your waiting on your amp....
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 01:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Ken.C
Charles, is that only a 2 channel Emotiva?


It's a three-channel. Almost enough.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 01:44 PM

So! Close!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 05:05 PM

Charles,

when you ordered your speakers, did you specify the custom feet? Or, are these what all the first batch are coming with?

The reason i ask, is i did not specifically ask for the custom feet, and now the standard rubber feet are the default option, this was not the case when the first few of us placed our orders...

Shawn, Steve, did you LFR's come with the same feet that Charles got?

Thanks.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 05:11 PM

I didn't order anything custom.
Posted by: stevej

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 06:48 PM

Mine came with the same feet Charles got and I didn't order anything different. The only thing I ordered extra was the center channel with the DSP.
I have mine set up and like Charles the axiom logo on one speaker came off. No big deal. Will glue it back on. I am running mine with an Emotiva XPA-5. I know there have been some concerns about the Emotivas with the 4 ohm speakers. I ordered it early enough to try it with my M80s. I cranked them up to 110 db with my SPL and left the room and let them run for about an hour. No problems with the amp.
So I have the LFRs hookep up and ran Audyssey on the Onkyo. I am running the LFRs and the VP180 with the XPA-5 and the 4 QS8s with the Onkyo.
I really like the LFRs. In my opinion there is an improvement when running in 7.1 but the real improvement is in 2 channel stereo. These speakers are amazing in stereo. I am still playing around and listening to them and I am not really good at putting my opinions in words, but will be glad to answer any questions anyone may have. If I don't answer right away it is because I am in the basement listening to these great speakers.
I also moved my M80s upstairs to the living room and my wife loves them over the M22s. So we both win.

Like I said, they sound great in stereo and I have been listening for a while with just the LFRs. Not even using the EP500. The sound is really amazing including the bass. So if anyone has been thinking about these speakers for just stereo I can't imagine you would be disappointed.

Going to go listen some more.
Posted by: solarrdadd

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 08:08 PM

Originally Posted By: stevej
Mine came with the same feet Charles got and I didn't order anything different. The only thing I ordered extra was the center channel with the DSP.
I have mine set up and like Charles the axiom logo on one speaker came off. No big deal. Will glue it back on. I am running mine with an Emotiva XPA-5. I know there have been some concerns about the Emotivas with the 4 ohm speakers. I ordered it early enough to try it with my M80s. I cranked them up to 110 db with my SPL and left the room and let them run for about an hour. No problems with the amp.
So I have the LFRs hookep up and ran Audyssey on the Onkyo. I am running the LFRs and the VP180 with the XPA-5 and the 4 QS8s with the Onkyo.
I really like the LFRs. In my opinion there is an improvement when running in 7.1 but the real improvement is in 2 channel stereo. These speakers are amazing in stereo. I am still playing around and listening to them and I am not really good at putting my opinions in words, but will be glad to answer any questions anyone may have. If I don't answer right away it is because I am in the basement listening to these great speakers.
I also moved my M80s upstairs to the living room and my wife loves them over the M22s. So we both win.

Like I said, they sound great in stereo and I have been listening for a while with just the LFRs. Not even using the EP500. The sound is really amazing including the bass. So if anyone has been thinking about these speakers for just stereo I can't imagine you would be disappointed.

Going to go listen some more.


that's great news stevej! the emotiva amp thing was from a very long time ago and it was not with the XPA-5. i too have an XPA-5 and run a pair of M80v3, a pair of QS8v3 & a VP180v3 and it never even gets hot; just warm is all. amp wise your good to go using the XPA-5 for your LFR's.

when you get a chance could you throw a couple of pictures of the LFR setup. and i'd love to hear (pun intended) some more about your thoughts after you have gotten some more listening time in.

what types of music are you listening too? what medium (SACD/DSD, DVD-a, HI-REZ FLAC, CD) also, what are you playing said medium with (an oppo or what) and lastly, what pre-amp are you using?

thanks a lot buddy, enjoy your new speakers and their gear. also are you using RCA OR XLR interconnects?

thanks for your time!
Posted by: grunt

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 08:14 PM

I noticed you said that you ran Audyssey, do the preouts on the Onkyo bypass the Audyssey or still implement it?

Also what’s Axiom’s take on using Audyssey with the LFRs especially considering that Audyssey recommends using only direct radiating speakers? I’m also curious what effects running Audyssey will have concidering the speakers have specific left and right DPS boards.
Posted by: stevej

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 08:57 PM

I am using an Onkyo 3007 an a preamp. Using cds on a Pioneer Elite cd player. Listening to mostly older rock such as Doobies, Chicago, Journey, Foreigner, etc. Also some country. Will get some classical out later and give it a try.
I am using RCA from the preamp to the DSP can't use XLR. Am also using RCA from the DSP to the XPA-5 but have XLRs ordered.
Will get some pictures in the next day or so. Need to get the room in order first.
Grunt, the Audyssey worked with the preouts. But it did have the XLRs set to -6. so I am not sure it liked the speakers.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 09:11 PM

Charles, a couple weeks ago it was me who suggested that there was no good reason for you not to enjoy the full use of the LFR1100s while waiting for the new amplifiers. You replied that you could be "patient", but as I suspected, now that they've arrived you're "very eager" to hear them in full operation with DSP. The new amplifiers certainly should be nice, but they're not essential for the full operation of the LFR1100s at this time.

As I mentioned before, feed player to DSP, DSP front driver outs to front inputs on Onkyo 708, DSP back driver outs to surround inputs on 708. Set receiver for 4.0 operation, of course, and connect speaker wires. Simple, and tonight you can start enjoying your speakers as they were designed to be heard.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 09:19 PM

Dean, the pre-outs on any receiver necessarily have to include any processing which has taken place farther up the line. If the processing, such as Audyssey, has been turned off, then of course it isn't there to go out the pre-outs.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 10:10 PM

Originally Posted By: JohnK
As I mentioned before, feed player to DSP, DSP front driver outs to front inputs on Onkyo 708, DSP back driver outs to surround inputs on 708. Set receiver for 4.0 operation, of course, and connect speaker wires. Simple, and tonight you can start enjoying your speakers as they were designed to be heard.


I decided to go ahead and try it out, but I'm running into difficulty. I can't seem to find the mode that takes the four channels straight through to the speakers. Direct only outputs 2.0, and I don't think I want to apply any of the Dolby, DTS, or THX modes, do I? I can't seem to find a mode where it simply says "Multich" or whatever. It's either Direct in 2.0, or one of the music, movie, or game modes.
Posted by: stevej

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 10:26 PM

Hey Charles would all channel stereo work?
Posted by: stevej

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 10:30 PM

Spent some more time listening and trying the different surround modes. They sound really good in surround, but I really do like just the LFRs in stereo. And I also like them without the sub. Anxious to hear what others have to say once they give them a listen. So far I am really impressed. Not one bit sorry I spent the money on these speakers.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 10:34 PM

Originally Posted By: stevej
Hey Charles would all channel stereo work?


I wouldn't think so. I would think that would just copy the front signals, not let the back signals from the DSP through, but then I'm not the most familiar with all of the workings of these modes. I've just been sticking with Dolby PLIIx Music mode, since I assume it's not doing too much to the signal, right?
Posted by: stevej

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 10:38 PM

I am not familiar either, maybe John will be back on with his knowledge on this. Hope you get to listen to them soon. I am anxious to hear another opinion on them.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 10:53 PM

Sure you do, Charles. Set the receiver speaker menu for 4.0, i.e., mains, no center, surrounds, no back surrounds, no sub. Then choose a mode(e.g., Dolby)just as if you were playing a 5.1 DVD(instead of CD)in the player.

Steve, no, all channel stereo wouldn't work. It duplicates just the mains(not what's in the "surround" channel)in the surrounds.

Edit: Charles, looking at this again, it just struck me that the DSP output is analog and is going into the multi-channel analog inputs on the receiver. So Dolby, which is a digital mode, wouldn't be correct. If your receiver is still the 708, I'll study the manual for a usable mode, but just off the top of my head, it would seem that Direct would give you the four channels coming in on the multi-channel analog inputs, not just two.
Posted by: stevej

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 10:54 PM

Thanks John. I knew you would be along with the answer.
Posted by: solarrdadd

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 10:57 PM

if your using an onkyo receiver or pre-amp you should use either Direct or Pure Audio (pure audio is engaged via a button on the receiver/pre-amp front face) this bypasses all processing and should give you signal straight from your input either into the receivers or pre-amps DAC or if you are using your transports DAC then the signal in your receiver or pre-amp would then go straight out to the amp via said pre-outs.

for LFR purposes, i'd recommend setting them as large or full range. they got broad shoulders and can take it! happy dishing!
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/07/12 11:52 PM

Originally Posted By: JohnK
Edit: Charles, looking at this again, it just struck me that the DSP output is analog and is going into the multi-channel analog inputs on the receiver. So Dolby, which is a digital mode, wouldn't be correct. If your receiver is still the 708, I'll study the manual for a usable mode, but just off the top of my head, it would seem that Direct would give you the four channels coming in on the multi-channel analog inputs, not just two.


Thanks, John. So far, Direct is definitely only 2.0. And yes, my receiver is still the 708.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/08/12 12:04 AM

Okay, I'll study the manual. But just to be sure, you do understand that the speaker menu has to be set for four speakers, not two. It's as if you're playing both front speakers and surrounds. Without studying, it would seem that Direct would have to take all four of the analog inputs and without any processing send them out after amplification through the front speaker and surround speaker terminals to the front and back drivers.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/08/12 12:06 AM

Yes, I understand. I had it set for the mains and the surrounds, nothing else.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/08/12 02:13 AM

Well, I've spent some time on the 708 manual. In particular p.38 describes the listening modes and appears to clearly indicate that Direct applies to multi-channel, not just 2-channel sources. If the back driver output from the DSP is plugged into the correct multi-channel surround inputs on the receiver, it should be amplified and come out the surround terminals. There is also a separate "Multich" mode, but the description indicates this is for PCM(digital)use, although it could be tried.

It should be verified that the back drivers are operating by connecting the front speaker wire to them. Also, the back driver speaker wire should be connected to the front drivers to confirm that there's no sound.
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/08/12 03:01 AM

My idea was to use a receiver with multi-channel analog inputs, was to take a dedicated playback device (like a CD player), and run it into the DSP's inputs, then take the DSP outputs, and run front channels into the L&R mains, and the rear into the L&R surrounds, and then power the speakers with the outputs on the receiver.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/08/12 03:29 AM

Right, Chris; that's exactly what's being suggested here. Unless there's some failure of communication, Charles is reporting that the multi-channel analog main speaker inputs are receiving the DSP output and powering the front drivers , but the back drivers are silent.
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/08/12 03:57 AM

Yes, John, that's what was happening.

Chris, instead of a CD player, I used my portable MP3 player (or in my case, FLAC).

I know the back drivers work because they were operating when I would put it into DPLIIx Music mode. However, I put my system back to how it was before I tested that the DSP was outputting the rear driver information. I had double-checked that they were going into the correct multi-channel inputs on the back of the receiver, but even so, there's that little bit of doubt that makes me think I should have triple-checked. So it could be either of those things (or a glitch in the receiver's functionality), but I think I really will wait for the amp this time. I'll tell you what, though; I really can't wait to have an equipment closet with easy access to the back of all of my gear via the room on the other side. That will make all of this reconfiguring so much less of a headache.

By the way, my dad had a big sheet of wood that we cut to block the entry behind the left LFR, so that should give me reflections on that side, at least. It's not pretty, and I still don't have the space to play much with placement, but at least it will give me an idea on the LFR sound.
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/08/12 07:13 AM

Hmm, odd. I've had both Sony and Pioneer receivers, they both have offered an analog, multi-channel input selector (not a surround mode, but a dedicated input) that just passed the input to the output with only the volume control in between. I don't know how you'd tell yours to do that.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/08/12 07:21 AM

Yeah, the Onk doesn't have it as a discreet input, just as something that can be assigned to another input. It's quite annoying, really.
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/08/12 08:18 AM

Originally Posted By: grunt
I noticed you said that you ran Audyssey, do the preouts on the Onkyo bypass the Audyssey or still implement it?

Also what’s Axiom’s take on using Audyssey with the LFRs especially considering that Audyssey recommends using only direct radiating speakers? I’m also curious what effects running Audyssey will have concidering the speakers have specific left and right DPS boards.


Audyssey should absolutely NOT be used with the LFRs. The algorithm used will not be able to deal with the omnidirectional radiation pattern and will apply whatever EQ it deems fit to BOTH the front and the back sections since they are technically on the same channel. It will also interfere with the correction that the DSP is already applying. PLEASE, do yourself a favour and turn it off! wink
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/08/12 08:23 AM

Originally Posted By: stevej
I am using an Onkyo 3007 an a preamp. Using cds on a Pioneer Elite cd player. Listening to mostly older rock such as Doobies, Chicago, Journey, Foreigner, etc. Also some country. Will get some classical out later and give it a try.
I am using RCA from the preamp to the DSP can't use XLR. Am also using RCA from the DSP to the XPA-5 but have XLRs ordered.
Will get some pictures in the next day or so. Need to get the room in order first.
Grunt, the Audyssey worked with the preouts. But it did have the XLRs set to -6. so I am not sure it liked the speakers.


One small point of clarification that might not be obvious: Whatever connection method you choose for the DSP must be used for both the input and output. Never mix RCA inputs with XLR outputs or vice versa. If you do this the DSP box is no longer unity gain (level in = level out) and there is a risk of clipping the input before reaching the limits of the system.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/08/12 08:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Andrew
Originally Posted By: grunt
I noticed you said that you ran Audyssey, do the preouts on the Onkyo bypass the Audyssey or still implement it?

Also what’s Axiom’s take on using Audyssey with the LFRs especially considering that Audyssey recommends using only direct radiating speakers? I’m also curious what effects running Audyssey will have concidering the speakers have specific left and right DPS boards.


Audyssey should absolutely NOT be used with the LFRs. The algorithm used will not be able to deal with the omnidirectional radiation pattern and will apply whatever EQ it deems fit to BOTH the front and the back sections since they are technically on the same channel. It will also interfere with the correction that the DSP is already applying. PLEASE, do yourself a favour and turn it off! wink


I suspected Audyssey would be a nogo with the LFRs, thanks for the confirmation Andrew.
Posted by: stevej

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/08/12 09:06 AM

Thanks for the info Andrew. I guess that is why the speakers sound so much better in direct mode stereo since it by passes Audyssey. And I guess I will leave the RCAs in instead of using the XLRs I have on order.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/08/12 10:18 PM

Chris, I'm not really following the difficulty that's being experienced here. The 708 has a full set of multi-channel analog inputs and a Direct mode which can apply to it, so that the volume control would be the only sort of processing which would be in effect.
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/08/12 10:45 PM

Then we're both stumped.

Uh oh! smile
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/08/12 11:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Andrew

Audyssey should absolutely NOT be used with the LFRs.


I guess i won't have to many Audyssey questions for you after all John.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/09/12 12:32 AM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
Originally Posted By: Andrew

Audyssey should absolutely NOT be used with the LFRs.


I guess i won't have to many Audyssey questions for you after all John.


I have never calibrated mine and it sounds amazing.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/09/12 12:54 AM

Yeah, Chris; after studying the 708 manual I went over the process step-by-step. Charles connects 2-channel analog source to DSP inputs, then connects DSP front outputs to 708 multi-channel analog front inputs and DSP back outputs to 708 multi-channel analog surround inputs. Then, Receiver and On are pressed on the remote to turn the receiver on. The multi-channel analog inputs are selected by pressing BD/DVD. A mode, probably Direct since no further processing is wanted, is selected. If the 708 front terminals are wired to the front drivers and the surround terminals to the back drivers, all drivers should be working unless something in the DSP and/or receiver is defective.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/09/12 01:07 AM

You may be guessing wrong, Alex. First, there's the separate calibration step which doesn't involve room EQ. Also, even assuming that there would be a conflict between the DSP processing on the LFR1100s and the Audyssey room EQ processing on them which would make it inadvisable to combine them, the Audyssey processing in most implementations can be set to bypass any EQ on the front speakers and apply it only to the other speakers.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/09/12 02:03 AM

Originally Posted By: JohnK
You may be guessing wrong, Alex. First, there's the separate calibration step which doesn't involve room EQ. Also, even assuming that there would be a conflict between the DSP processing on the LFR1100s and the Audyssey room EQ processing on them which would make it inadvisable to combine them, the Audyssey processing in most implementations can be set to bypass any EQ on the front speakers and apply it only to the other speakers.


So, did i read that right... You just got yourself back on the hook? Well, when i eventually buy a new processor that is......
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/09/12 03:29 PM

I got a partial delivery today. 1 LFR, and the DSP box. I wound up opening the LFR on the front lawn, due to my ceiling being to low at 95" high... Here is the aftermath..


Here is the LFR between one of the M60's and an EP-600

And without the grills.


Here are some photos of the DSP box, Charles took some as well.

I got a close up of the Axiom logo, this is CNC machined out of the 1/4" aluminum, i though it was a very nice touch.

Here are some photos of the back, i got the optional center channel board. The XLR connectors are neutrik connectors which i though was a nice.



I connected all of the XLR's, i though i would take a photo with the cables connected because looking at the connections empty is one thing, but seeing them filled is something completely different.



Also, the power supply in the DSP box is pretty darn big.. I was VERY tempted to take the cover off of my DPS to take some internal photos... However, i decided i would leave that to someone at the factory, and leave my warrantee intact.
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/09/12 03:49 PM

take the top off , they will never know.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/09/12 04:04 PM

So the unit is capable of providing fresh-squeezed OJ as well?
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/09/12 04:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Socketman
take the top off , they will never know.


if i posted photos of the insides, it would be obvious.. wink


Mark,

Yup, from Florida Oranges...


Actually it was what i had handy.... The Fedex guy showed up just before i started peeling it....
Posted by: Gary Vose Sr

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/09/12 05:02 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
Originally Posted By: Socketman
take the top off , they will never know.


if i posted photos of the insides, it would be obvious.. wink


Mark,

Yup, from Florida Oranges...


Actually it was what i had handy.... The Fedex guy showed up just before i started peeling it....


Alex great looking front yard! With all that very thick and lush green grass, with no weed to be found. OOOHH, and that audio gear doesn't look half bad either. grin
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/09/12 05:20 PM

That doesn't look anything like my yard.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/10/12 07:23 AM

Despite other photos lately, your shot with the LFR between the M60 and EP600 is the first time I truly realized how freaking big these things are.

Also, is that your dog's paw in the photo of the rear of the DSP without wires?
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/10/12 11:15 AM

Murph,
When i was looking at the size of the LFR's, i realized that they are actually a bit taller than the EP-600.. I thought putting the LFR in between the M60 and 600 would allow a greater number of people to realize the true size.. For those with M80's Amie's photo will help as well.

Originally Posted By: dakkon



yes it is his paw, his paws are about the size of a grown mans palm... Below is what he was doing for the majority of the time while i was unpacking the new arrivals... He did not share my enthusiasm..




Here are some other photos. The chassie of the DSP is made of 1/8" thick steel, which i think is part of the reason why it is as heavy as it is.. As well as the power transformer.. The transformer is much larger than i was expecting.




Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/10/12 07:48 PM

It was nice of someone else to take the cover off of theirs, and send you the pics. wink
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/11/12 03:35 AM

I received my other speaker today,I would not say that they sound "better" than my M60's.. But, different, very different. One area that i noticed immediately was that the LFR's blend better with the EP600's than the M60's did. When listening to music with the M60's, it was apparent when the 600's were doing the heavy lifting. With the LFR's that is not the case, which should be expected. My L/R/C are all set to full range (so, they receive 20khz-20hz, i have not changed any settings all), and the 600's crossovers are set to 80hz. Right now each of my LFR's are 13" from the wall and slightly toed in, which increases the angle of deflection of the rear speakers.

Originally Posted By: stevej

I am not really good at putting my opinions in words

I think like Steve, it is hard to convey the experience of listening to the LFR's. .

The closest thing i could compair it to, is akin to attending a concert at a Opera/symphony hall, where there has been intentional design elements implemented to promote the dispersion of sound, by having some of it reflect off of the walls and ceiling prior to arriving at your seat. Others can say whether this would be a somewhat accurate portrayal of what they are experiencing or not. This is my best attempt at conveying my experience today.



Posted by: stevej

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/11/12 11:27 AM

I think that is a pretty good discription. I also did not notice a huge difference between the LFRs and the M80s when playing music in one of the surround modes. But I really think they open up a lot more in stereo. And the bass is quite impressive.
In surround I don't think that is a knock on the LFRs but just speaks to how good the M60s and M80s are. But I am still playing around with positions and settings to see what works best. Also I am not in a very big room right now (16 x 13), but sometime in the near future I am taking out a wall and will be in a 16 x 23 room. I think that may make a big difference also.

Will try to post more in the next few days, but my time is a little limited for a couple days so won't be able to play much.
Posted by: Gary Vose Sr

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/11/12 02:07 PM

Don't forget about break in time for your new loud speakers. With the LFR's having more drivers, one being a 6 1/2" woofer, you might want to try lowering the cross over down to 50-60 Htz on the subs. This would allow the loud speakers more time to go solo, before those big honking subs kick in. Transition should still be seamless between the speakers at that point. Will this have a positive responds? I don't know it's just a suggestion. Also play around more with the speaker placement as well. Good luck
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/11/12 09:36 PM

Gary, it's safe to forget about break in time after about one minute, and since the LFR1100s have been tested at the factory, the time's up.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/11/12 10:21 PM

Right now the LFR's are in the same spot that I had the M60's, this was the sweet spot for the M60's. Once i get the outriggers back from powder coat and installed on the towers, then i will see if their sweet spot is different than what the M60's was.

Maybe Andrew or Ian could give us some guidance as to what type of placement they have found sounds the best with the LFR's? My first impression is that using the sweet spots from my M60's seems to sound pretty darn good.


For the time being, i do not want to make changes to any settings. After i get the outriggers installed and the speakers get settled into a more permanent location, then i will get out the SLP meter to see if any levels need to be adjusted, and then at that time i will possibly revisit the cross over settings... Also, i left the boundary compensation is set to on.


What crossover settings ect are others using?
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/11/12 10:39 PM

I have found that the LFRs can benefit from being spread a bit further apart than the M80s and then toed in a little more to account for the increased separation. Also, feel free to experiment with the boundary switch. There is really no hard and fast rule to suggest which setting will sound best in a particular room, so go ahead and try both settings.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/12/12 02:05 AM

Thanks Andrew, that is what I wanted to know before I fire up my babes. Looking forward to it.
Posted by: cohesion

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/16/12 03:52 PM

Hi,

In this post you mentioned powder coating your outriggers. Am I correct in assuming that you didn't want them black? If so can you please provide some details about what colour you're getting and where you sent them? I'm also thinking that black may not work for me.

When you get them back please post photos! Thanks!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/16/12 06:12 PM

Originally Posted By: cohesion
Hi,

In this post you mentioned powder coating your outriggers. Am I correct in assuming that you didn't want them black? If so can you please provide some details about what colour you're getting and where you sent them? I'm also thinking that black may not work for me.

When you get them back please post photos! Thanks!


These are the outriggers i was referring to.. They will be a textured black finish, i should have them back from powder coat this week.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=380140&page=1
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/17/12 09:59 AM

I finally got my XLR cables and got the LFRs fired up. OMG are these speakers ever great. They make the whole room sing, the soundstage is huge.I thought the M80s were good but these are just incredible,WOW.
At first I thought I had turned up my subs, but the LFRs have some serious bass, the DSP does a wonderful job blending my VP160 with the LFRs too. The speakers are well worth the money and the wait.
Posted by: Gary Vose Sr

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/17/12 11:11 AM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
I finally got my XLR cables and got the LFRs fired up. OMG are these speakers ever great. They make the whole room sing, the soundstage is huge.I thought the M80s were good but these are just incredible,WOW.
At first I thought I had turned up my subs, but the LFRs have some serious bass, the DSP does a wonderful job blending my VP160 with the LFRs too. The speakers are well worth the money and the wait.


Hey SBrown don't hold back, tell us what you really think of those new speakers. laugh
Posted by: solarrdadd

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/18/12 05:55 PM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
I finally got my XLR cables and got the LFRs fired up. OMG are these speakers ever great. They make the whole room sing, the soundstage is huge.I thought the M80s were good but these are just incredible,WOW.
At first I thought I had turned up my subs, but the LFRs have some serious bass, the DSP does a wonderful job blending my VP160 with the LFRs too. The speakers are well worth the money and the wait.


don't know if you already mentioned this or not but, what brand XLR cables did you go with? also have you gone with a brand different than the ones you have and if so, which was better?
i currently use monoprice XLR cables from my pre-amp to my XPA-5 amp and was thinking about the potential for change. thanks for your time.

back on topic, glad you really like the speakers and nice quick comparison to the M80's. please keep us posted.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/18/12 06:18 PM

I have only bought and used one brand XLR cable here: http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopexd.asp?id=949


Did I mention that I love these speakers. wink
Posted by: solarrdadd

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/18/12 08:17 PM

thanks buddy! wink
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/18/12 09:32 PM

Shawn, I especially enjoyed the extra $5 for "Burn-in" on the cable, and the "Cryo Treated". No specific charge for the cold, but maybe that's why they charge about 4-5 times as much.

Good to hear how much you're enjoying your new speakers.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/18/12 09:52 PM

Your welcome solarrdadd.

I thought you might like that John, you know me and my cable and wire. smile
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/19/12 12:09 AM


Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/19/12 08:26 PM

Here are some more photos of the outriggers.

I think i am leaning towards getting somes of these to replace the stock rubber feet..
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-vibration-control-levelers/=ihacnv





Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/20/12 08:56 AM

Which ones on that page? The square ones are pretty cool-looking.
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/20/12 11:05 AM

Those square ones are 3" square!

Gotta love McMaster-Carr 3700+ pages of just about everything one could need.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/20/12 11:08 AM

Amie, i will be ordering part number 6330K41


The square ones you saw use a 1/2inch rod. The holes that are tapped in the outriggers are 1/4" 20, the size that the "stock" screw is.. So, the above product will work with the hole/threading that i put in the steel. I don't want to do any more cutting on the outriggers since they are powder coated, i dont want to risk messing up the finish...
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/20/12 11:10 AM

*Sigh* it's good that I'm not in charge of ordering parts! Looking forward to seeing the finished product when the new feet come in!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/20/12 01:12 PM

I just ordered them, they will be here on Tuesday....

is ok Amie, McMaster carries a crazy amount of hardware.. So, anyone ordering parts from them has to know exactly what they want, as they have so many variations that pretty much look the same from the photos.


I will post more photos when the new feet come in... I "think" that at that time the outrigger project will be finished....


With the outriggers on the LFR's are nearly impossible to tip over, i ordered a digital hanging scale to measure how many lbs of pressure it is going to take to tip them.

Here is a photo of the current setup. I even moved the dog beds this time grin


Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/20/12 02:11 PM

Ooohweee! Love those little blue lights! Looks great! What tunes are you rocking on the new speakers?
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/20/12 03:31 PM

Cameron Carpenter Revolutionary SACD

And the digital classical musical channel from Time Warner.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/20/12 06:09 PM

The best of the Brady Bunch would have been a funnier answer!
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/22/12 02:24 AM

Axiom Audio Factory Tour - July 20th, 2012 (SoundStage! Global)
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/22/12 02:36 AM

Interesting read and some nice pictures. There's certainly plenty of thought going into the production of the products. I really do need to visit Axiom sometime and see it in person.
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/22/12 06:16 AM

thanks for the link CD; very interesting reading.
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/22/12 03:39 PM

That is quite an undertaking for Ian and Amie .Very impressive factory and amazing that so much of it is built right here in canada. I really liked the look of the M80's in silver. In the article they stated that brystons speakers were being tested int he listening area, they look exactly like the LFR's ? It will be interesting to know what the differences are both technical and price wise.


richahrd
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/22/12 04:40 PM

Richard,

Here is the Bryston thread.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=97007.320

I was thinking about getting the Bryston speakers.. The price range discussed is going to be 10k$ range for the active crossover version.. The price is why I jumped at the introductory price on the LFR's, for about 1/5th the cost i couldn't pass it up.
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/22/12 08:35 PM

dakkon you spelled my name wrong , either that or i did sheesh,better go check birth certificate.
happy sunday

Richard
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/22/12 08:41 PM

From looking at the pictures of the bryston in the listening room, the woofers seem to have a more busty look about the surrounds for longer xmax i assume.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/22/12 09:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Socketman

richahrd


Originally Posted By: Socketman

Richard


*Confused...*

I think you fat fingered your name...? What was the result of the verification of the birth certificate? I have been known to submit a typo on occasion...

The woofers are 8" axiom drivers..
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/22/12 09:49 PM

Turns out you were right grin Bigger than the LFR???
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/22/12 10:52 PM

I am glad i was able to clear that up for you bud...


Yes, I'm pretty sure that the Model T's are larger than the LFR's.. Amie, or Andrew would probably be able to compare the size of the two... Also, i don't know if you noticed or not. But, the active version of the Model T's will require 3 channels of amplification per speaker.
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/22/12 11:25 PM

I did the unthinkable and actually clicked on your link and read the last 5 pages of that thread. Though similar looking they are entirely different from what Axiom is doing.It all sounds very interesting, though both are way out of my league financially and doubt i will ever hear them.

Richard
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/22/12 11:27 PM

So, you have the first 17 pages to read then ya?


I'm sure Ian will have a pair of LFR's set up at the next Axiom get together at the factory..... Save some vacation days smile
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/23/12 06:39 AM

The Model Ts are taller, wider, deeper and heavier. In fact, they are so large it wouldn't be possible to courier them - they exceed every one of FedEx's restrictions!
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/25/12 01:36 AM




Here are the new feet. They arrived today..
Posted by: Murph

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/25/12 07:27 AM

Cool. It looks like it is about to take off like a rocket.
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 07/25/12 07:55 AM

Very nice! You're all tricked out now!
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 08/16/12 11:33 AM

Some new images to share . . . Burled Walnut LFRs at coat 4 of an eight-stage coat. These are going to be beautiful!!



and in the booth



and another booth view


Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 08/16/12 11:58 AM

That's puuuuuurdy!
Posted by: cohesion

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 08/16/12 01:35 PM

If I'm not mistaken these are actually a custom finish called Carpathian Elm Burl, although it is similar to Burl Walnut.

Looking very nice!
Posted by: Gary Vose Sr

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 08/18/12 03:23 PM

Between it's looks, and soon too be sound, I can only think of one word. MAGIC!!
Posted by: FireGuy

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 08/19/12 08:28 AM

Has anyone done a professional review on the LFR's yet? I haven't see anything ..sure hope I'm not missing anything.

This is all I've been able to find:

http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/axiom-audio-m100v3
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 08/19/12 08:30 AM

I think they've only shipped in very limited quantities, so there probably ISN'T a review pair available yet. And I can guarantee the review won't be at Audioholics.
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 08/19/12 10:13 AM

Six moons has always treated Axiom very fairly. I would get them a pair.
Posted by: FireGuy

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 08/19/12 07:24 PM

Or SoundStage. Doug Schneider (& company). I've always enjoyed and respected his work, especially with Axiom products.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 10/22/12 12:22 PM

Ian said there is new code for the LFR DSP box, so I'm sending it in to get it updated. cool
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 10/22/12 08:25 PM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
Ian said there is new code for the LFR DSP box, so I'm sending it in to get it updated. cool



What?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?........... did he happen to post what the differences are between the two sets of code?
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 10/22/12 08:30 PM

No, but he said he would be interested to hear my thoughts when I get it back. It must be a substantial improvement, I'm hoping.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 10/22/12 10:13 PM

I doubt substantial, more like noticeable.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 10/22/12 11:29 PM

OK.. cry ruin the party!
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 10/23/12 12:28 AM

I meant substantial, as in worthwhile!
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 10/23/12 02:12 AM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
Ian said there is new code for the LFR DSP box, so I'm sending it in to get it updated. cool


Hmmm.... I wonder if I should send mine in, too, or wait until the time after this time. Maybe I can send it in when I'm trying to do NaNoWriMo so I'll have a reason to use my system less.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 10/23/12 07:44 AM

Originally Posted By: Jakewash
I doubt substantial, more like noticeable.

Originally Posted By: SBrown
I meant substantial, as in worthwhile!


How about, "So noticeable that it is substantially worthwhile."
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 10/24/12 01:52 AM

Nice!
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 10/24/12 04:48 PM

Substantially nice, or noticeably nice?
Posted by: cohesion

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 10/26/12 02:10 PM

Some Notes and Feedback on Unpacking My LFR1100's

I got my new speakers delivered a couple of weeks ago and finally had time to unpack them. Thought I'd share some of my thoughts in case it can help future purchasers.

Mine were a pair in a custom finish. They came in two big heavy boxes plus an extra smaller, less heavy box for the DSP. In fact, the speakers themselves were packed in the same way as the M80's, that is, upside down in a box. The idea being that you open the top of the box, remove the top packing foam, and then install the feet on the bottom of the speaker before turning the speaker right side up and lifting off the box. Well, that approach worked OK for my M80s but in this case not so well at all.

In my opinion, the LFR's are simply too big and heavy to be unpacked this way. The main problem is that the outriggers are packed down further in the sides of the box. Thus there's no way to get to them to install them until after the speakers have been removed from the box and are already sitting upright. This means another cycle of turning the speakers upside down -- this time without the cushioning of the boxes -- installing the outriggers and feat, then turning them back on their feet again. (In my case, the bolts to attach the feet proved to be missing from my shipment, so I'll need to try again once they arrive!)

Would it be possible to ship the speakers in a different style of box, one that would open from the front or side and have the speakers already sitting on the outriggers and feet? Or if not, how about shipping the outriggers and feet in the same box as the DSP? Then it would be easy to open that box first, get the required hardware out, and attach it to the bottom of the speakers right away.

I must say that I found the LFR's difficult to move around, too, as the drivers on both front and rear make it hard to get a hand hold. Would it be possible to include some kind of removable grab bar or something?

Finally, each speaker came in a cool looking Axiom Audio bag inside the box. Avery nice touch! Funny though, each bag was a bit dirty. I wonder if the insides of the boxes aren't totally clean?

Overall, the speakers look terrific and I expect they'll sound even better. Will try to post some impressions after I've had a good listen...
Posted by: AdrianD

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 10/31/12 10:12 AM

Thanks cohesion for sharing; waiting for the audition results.
Posted by: brwsaw

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 10/31/12 11:11 AM

+1
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 10/31/12 04:08 PM

That's some good feedback, cohesion. The initial impression one gets after delivery is the unboxing and that's an important thing to get right, especially with high dollar items such as the LFR system. I'm definitely looking forward to your impressions on the listening experience! smile
Posted by: Amie

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 11/01/12 09:39 AM

I'm so excited I hardly know where to post! Two new reviews today - the Epic 60 v 160 got its first review and so did the LFRs! Since this is the LFR thread, let's start with that:

Quote:
"The LFR1100 is absolutely crystalline in its output and the level of detail is just mind blowing. I cannot believe I am saying this, but it is literally like having the artist in the room with you. I know what you are thinking and I have heard that expression a million times as well only to be let down when I put it to the test, but in the case of the LFR1100 and my listening sessions it was true for me. The idea of having a true full-range speaker capable of delivering on its promise was foreign to me, until now."


Read Dale Rasco's whole review here:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/s...al-speaker.html
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 11/01/12 09:56 AM

Well, THAT sucks.




Now I want them.
Posted by: J. B.

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 11/01/12 10:18 AM

the people at Axiom make me sick for wanting to upgrade; but if this happens, it will not be before i move to a larger apartment.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 11/01/12 05:19 PM

I can't wait to get my DSP box back from the code update, I would always walk to the bathroom from the living room and swear there was someone talking out the bathroom window.

Its the damn LFRs playing tricks on me! grin
Posted by: fredk

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 11/01/12 08:25 PM

Quote:
... Of course the LFR delivered the introduction without any issues, unless you count the lights dimming from the amount of power required to run the LFR’s at that volume.

At last a speaker for those that crave amps with huge power... grin
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 11/01/12 08:37 PM

That's why they made amps too! laugh
Posted by: cohesion

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 11/06/12 08:18 PM

OK I delayed sending my DSP box back for the upgrade to get my LFRs fired up. My I initial impression is that the soundstage is very noticeably better than with my M80's for stereo music. I've not tried any surround sound yet.
Posted by: cohesion

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 11/06/12 08:18 PM

OK I delayed sending my DSP box back for the upgrade to get my LFRs fired up. My I initial impression is that the soundstage is very noticeably better than with my M80's for stereo music. I've not tried any surround sound yet.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 11/09/12 09:22 AM

Got my DSP box back last night and will be hooking it back up on the weekend. Will let you guys know if it is substantially noticeable or not.

But then...I haven't heard it for awhile, so how am I to tell a difference. wink
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 11/11/12 10:07 AM

Well, the wife and I were watching some bluray concerts last night and the code update for the LFRs.....WOW. I suggest to anyone who hasn't sent the DSP box in,do so now! Amazing,thanks Ian.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 11/11/12 10:42 AM

Shawn, can you elaborate on "WOW"? laugh
Posted by: CV

Re: Exciting News From Axiom! - 11/11/12 12:31 PM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
Well, the wife and I were watching some bluray concerts last night and the code update for the LFRs.....WOW. I suggest to anyone who hasn't sent the DSP box in,do so now! Amazing,thanks Ian.


I'm excited to have a movie night after I get my VP180 and the DSP for my LFR1100s back.

Out of curiosity, has the code for the DSP you can get for the M80s been updated as well? I would think the code for them would be more straightforward, and probably not needing to be refined much more than the first iteration.