OT: Dishwasher Recommendations? - Axiom Message Boards

Dear Friends,

In my ongoing efforts to ascend out of the inner circles of Bukowinski's Dishwasher Hell, I need your opinions.

Our current abode "features" a vintage 1997 Kenmore/GE budget dishwasher that - until recently - performed its assigned task with an audible gusto that totally belied its utter inefficiency at actually removing particles from any surface. Its recent inability to maintain fundamental structural integrity has relegated its status to that of a built-in dishrack, and continues to rob my family of valuable post-meal bonding time while forcing us to endure the heartbreak of dishpan hands.

So, we shop for dishwashers. As with all things that plug in and have buttons, we obsess. We build charts. We read reviews. We agonize over measurements and manufacturer technobabble. That's when I thought of all of you.

We spend a lot of time in the kitchen, and have made significant (and prudent) investment in a dual-fuel range and a vent hood that - when fully engaged - WILL prevent your seasonings from making the journey down from your shaker to the pan below. So, we will get "a good one" rather than saving money and regularly cursing the "not so good one".

We will get a stainless front and interior. We care about washing ability, quietness, and loading flexibility. We like the idea of an adjustable top rack, but it may not be necessary depending upon configuration. We do regularly wash large items (commercial cookie sheets, etc.). I still have a bit of research to do, and am still obtaining bids. Availability is a very serious issue for some vendors (Best Buy has some excellent prices, but they are back-ordered until June).

The leading candidates so far are things like (prices are plus delivery and tax):

Kitchenaid KUDI02FSS $918.
Kenmore Elite 13773 $969. This is basically the same as the Kitchenaid, except it includes some upgrades to the Kitchenaid P series line (adjustable top shelf, etc.).
GE Profile PWD9280LSS $950
Jenn-Air JDB1090AWS $820.

Jenn-Air and Maytag have basically the same guts. I have not heard good things about Frigidaire. LG and Bosch/Siemens are out of the question due to their point of manufacture and/or drying systems. I understand that some online retailers (ABT, AJ Madison) have good prices, and the shipping is basically a wash compared to WA sales tax, but I would prefer to buy locally.

Your opinions and recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Although I use a Bosch, another one I considered was the GE Monogram Link

Thanks, HomeDad! I sort of forgot about the Monogram line (we have a GE Profile Range with which we are VERY satisfied). Looks a little expensive for the SS one, but clearly a new option. Thanks again.

We have a Miele and I would never recommend it. It doesn't clean well at all. Waste at over $1K just to have a quiet machine.

I recommend going w/ the standards, Maytag/GE/etc. Consumer reports can probably give you a good rec.

Our cleaning ladies even complain about our dishwasher. They said the $500 ones from Sears are the best ones, in terms of cleaning. Seeing as how they clean houses and kitchens for a living, I'd trust their rec.

Thanks, OSB. I had definitely planned to stick to "the standards" for a variety of reasons.

Interestingly, we had a Miele vacuum that was FANTASTIC - until it needed a replacement motor after about a year. It was "fixed", but it never worked worth a damn after that. I also vividly remember using both super glue and duct tape on its attachments multiple times. Got a Dyson now and life is good.

We just replaced a GE with water-retention problems with a Maytag 'JetClean II' (MDB7601AWW) but I am not sure if it comes in stainless - we went with white. We've had it for a couple of months and it is great so far - very quiet, very good cleaning, and best of all, no leaks!

I also got a wonderful deal on delivery, but I fear Sears is not long for this world. We bought this dishwasher at Sears because they had a 10% price guarantee. I showed them the Home Depot sale price and they agreed to the 10%. It had to be ordered, which I expected, and I was prepared to go to a store and pick it up. But get this - I could not have the discount unless I got it delivered. How much is delivery? It's free!

Amazing. But anyway, the dishwasher is great - hightly recommended, and a little over half the price of the units you mentioned.

-Brian n8wrl

Hey, that's great Brian. Thank you.

The wife wants a stainless interior, too, which drives the price up a bit. However, Maytag and Jenn Air differ only cosmetically, so your good fortune is meaningful to me.

We've always used Kenmore products since we got married and have had great luck.

I found a website a short while ago that listed 'who makes what'. As I recall, Maytag owns Jenn Air.

-Brian n8wrl

If you haven't already looked into, make sure you check the db rating on all the models, I literally have to put my ear against our dishwasher to see if its running, now I don't have to turn the TV up when doing the dishes

I agree Homedad, also calibrating with an SPL meter helps.

Automatic dishwashers.....cleaning ladies?? You mean that sort of stuff actually exist?

Our Whirlpool dishwasher absolutely refuses to clean dishes properly unless they have been pre-washed in the sink beforehand and the last cleaning lady(?) we had got to the point where she wanted more money and the phrase "No habla Ingles" cropped up every time we asked her why the work wasn't getting done. I've heard she since went on strike, celebrated 'Cinco de Mayo' and now things are going well for her. I'm glad!

Good luck Tom!

That was a little too political and stereotypical for comfort, BB.

What, do you think I'm lying Peter? Not a damn thing stereotypical or political about the truth.

Ignoring the racism...

Tom - one thing we were told to look for is a "plumbed" top uh... jet thing... some of them (even in your price range!) just kind of gravity feed the water down from the top... if there's a pipe that actually seals and allows that water to be pressurized apparently it works a LOT better. We got one that fits UNDER the rack and sprays up... for all my glasses.

Also, look at tall tubs... all I wash are Pepsi glasses, but the bakers around me say they're good for cutting boards and baking sheets.

Ours even has a turbidity detector... it monitors the water going out and if it finds there are still food particles after the rinse, it automatically adds another rinse.

Bren R.

Tom, you apparently have decided to pass on the used/newly replaced unit Pete has in his possession.

We were forced into doing some dishwasher research a few months ago. However, I remembered the Homeowner's Warranty that came with the purchase of the house. Faster than you can say "freebie, except for the $75 deductible", the entire dishwasher was essentially rebuilt and has been working famously ever since.

Your list of choices was similar in scope to our summary. However, all of the research pointed us to Kitchenaid for all the right reasons (features, reliability, workmanship, etc). Price aside, the user info and reviews I ferreted out point to this line as the one you want at the end of the day.

A bit pricey, but quality tells in the end. We normally back off one or two from the top of the line (esoteric features you pay for and don't use). Kitchenaid is my recommendation and it will also make Mrs.Tom happy, thereby giving you a little peace along the way.

If she doesn't like the dishwasher, I'd suggest Pete's approach - buy her a kayak.

It is OBVIOUSLY all about making Mrs. Tuttle happy

She wants a sailboat, not a kayak. It is not a realistic approach at this time.

I narrowed the choices to the Jenn Air 1100 and the Kitchenaid F front in either the I or P line. She is going to choose between the two when she has some time to go to the store with her pans, sheets, etc. I think we've (again) reconsidered the finish, and may save a couple hundred by going with black instead of stainless.

Gentlemen, thank you very much for your help. This is a great community.

Will you be installing it yourself? I have a few recommendations, if so....

In reply to:
and may save a couple hundred by going with black instead of stainless.

I dunno, I used to be a fan of stainless when I saw it in show homes, now that I see it in real life situations... it's really REALLY hard to keep clean... especially in a dishwasher... which takes slight spills loading and unloading... and then the venting of steam...

In reply to:
Will you be installing it yourself? I have a few recommendations, if so....

Recommendation #1 - don't ask Peter to help you.

Oddly, and plumbing is NOT my forte... I had no problems installing ours... well, besides the necessary water running down into my armpit from disconnecting the old feed line.

Bren R.

If your water supply is already plumbed with a something that can accept a screw-on reinforced braided metal hose, it'll make life a whole lot easier. The right parts, regardless, help, too.

In reply to:
It is OBVIOUSLY all about making Mrs. Tuttle happy She wants a sailboat, not a kayak. It is not a realistic approach at this time.

Soooo...
Did you ever get that camera you wanted Tom?

Mark, I got the camera not all the lenses I need. A camera is NOT a sailboat. Besides, as Ken hypothesized, she seems to rather enjoy the camera in the short time we've had it.

I don't know if I'll do the install. I could, but I'm pressed for time. Likewise, I currently have flexible copper with compression fittings running all the way from the supply to the appliance; I don't feel like sweating a new fitting on there, and the supply is too far from the dishwasher to use ONLY the braided hose. So, I might let somebody else do the swearing for $100 this time.

Bren, I'm with you on the stainless.

In reply to:
Tom - one thing we were told to look for is a "plumbed" top uh... jet thing... some of them (even in your price range!) just kind of gravity feed the water down from the top... if there's a pipe that actually seals and allows that water to be pressurized apparently it works a LOT better. We got one that fits UNDER the rack and sprays up... for all my glasses.

Also, look at tall tubs... all I wash are Pepsi glasses, but the bakers around me say they're good for cutting boards and baking sheets.

I agree with Bren. We bought a dishwasher last fall that was everything Bren described and it works great. I don't believe that there is a perfect dishwasher but some definitely work better than others. In my case the wife's choice was GE Max with stainless front. (She is a very neat and organized person so cleaning of the front is not an issue for her.) The dishwasher has performed very well and works well with the small Cascade pouches.

Just get the Bosch. I bought all SS Kitchen aid appliances for my house when I built it (whatever their high end line was). The dishwasher works well, but it’s not nearly as good, or as quiet as the Bosh that three of my friends have.

The Bosch is the best dishwasher I have ever owned, not only the fact that you can't hear the thing, but it will clean anything.

Don't know if this matters to you, but I just saw this in the news.

Just a stray dishwasher installation thought. These puppies will vent some heat/steam and it goes upwards. I got some advice early on that when installing a diswasher, if you can put a couple of coats of some type of moisture barrier on the bottom side of the counter (assuming it is wood, pressboard, MDX, etc) before putting the dishwasher in there, it will save some aggravation later on with that material absorbing the moisture and getting all funky. Might be helpful.

Good tip, Ray, I forgot to mention... when we installed the new dishwasher, I installed it flush with the cabinet face frame, not flush with the cabinet doors as the old one was (personal preference)... so I sealed the underside of the counter top with clear urethane.

Bren R.

Gentlemen, another "Thank You".

Peter, yes it matters. Thanks for passing it along. Unfortunately, I believe that now Whirlpool owns not only Maytag/Jenn-Air but also Kitchenaid, Amana and Roper. At least at the moment, UAW brothers and sisters are assembling Maytag/Jenn-Air products.

Thanks Bren. This is one of those things that is difficult to gauge for effectiveness. Is the countertop in good shape because I did it or would it matter if I hadn't. A couple of bucks worth of urethane is a cheap price for peace of mind (and possible expensive kitchen re-work avoidance).

I've actually applied a couple of coats of urethane to my wife, but she has wrinkled anyhow.

urethane does that when exposed to too much friction.

In reply to:
Thanks Bren. This is one of those things that is difficult to gauge for effectiveness.

I can't say for sure it's helped here either... but it was suggested so I did it... in the month that the new one's been installed, the counter top hasn't rotted... MUST be proof positive! *laughs*

In reply to:
urethane does that when exposed to too much friction

And if you don't sand the original stock lacquer off first.

Ray's wife hates us already and has never even met us!

Bren R.

Well, here's my story so far.

I bought the Kitchenaid KUDP02FRBL (black).

We went (with our commercial sheet pan in hand) and examined various models yesterday. Consensus between the wife and I was that the general loading, layout and feature set of the Kitchenaid was hard to beat. We found that the supposedly comparable Kenmore had fewer cycles (that ended up mattering) and a much cheesier silverware rack. The Jenn Air's fatal flaw is its non-adjustable rack system. The GE was just more money for no apparent reason. My wife just could not get past the unorthodox drying system in the Bosch.

Peter will be over to my house this weekend to do the install. I'll make sure there is plenty of beer.

Thanks again, guys. Your input and guidance are valuable, as always.

In reply to:
My wife just could not get past the unorthodox drying system in the Bosch.

Hyperventilating monkeys?

Bren R.

I thought you bribed Ken to do it.

Uh oh.