Now that I’ve got this DSLR camera and a few hundred really crappy pictures, what’s a good photo editing program?
I tried the software that came with the camera, and I’m not all that happy with it. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but it’s just too basic.
I think I need noise reduction. No, I know I need it….
I’d like to be able to combine shots taken where there is extreme exposure setting differences (like a really bright sunset over a dark mountain peak). I don’t know if there is anything that will do that, but I was thinking if I could take two pictures of the same thing, with two different exposures, I could cut and paste?? I dunno, maybe I’m just dreaming, but that would be cool.
I’m still using JPEG, but think after I figure this thing out, I’ll use Raw + JPEG, so it would be cool if I didn’t have to use two separate programs to convert and process.
That six hundred dollar Photo Shop is too expensive for me.
I’ve looked at about a dozen different programs, and really don’t which one to get. I figured I’d ask you guys before I go downloading a bunch of trial versions.
I'd like to stitch panoramas too.
Mike, you might consider the more affordable
Adobe PhotoShop Elements. The name explains it. It might still be too "basic" for you, but I can't say.
You can find a lot of
opinions,
reviews, and tips and tutorials on the internet.
Adobe Photoshop Elements TechniquesPhotoshop Elements Tutorials and User ResourcesThe above were found by simply by googling "Photoshop Elements."
I know the price of photoshop is steep but there really isnt anything that comes close.
Which camera did you end up getting?
The
GIMP is an open source free software which I believe is capable of doing anything Photoshop can. I've downloaded it, but I haven't figured out how to use it yet. It certainly looks like it has a LOT of features though, so I guess it's worth giving it a shot...it's free!
Thanks Alex. Elements was already on my list to look at. I had not read all the reviews though, thanks for the links. Adobe also has one out called Lightroom that looks pretty good too.
There’s one out called Bibble that’s getting a lot of praise.
I’m also looking at Helicon Soft that looks promising.
http://www.heliconsoft.com/index.htmlCorel Paint Shop Pro is another one that a lot of pro’s use who refuse to dump $600 on Photoshop.
It’s all quite daunting…..
Bray,
I went with the Olympus Evolt 510 with two kit lenses; 14-42 and 50-150. One of the reasons I don’t want to spend six bills on software for it is I want the 7-14 super wide angle lens, and it costs $1500.. so I’m saving my pennies for it.
Thanks Mary…. I had not seen that one yet. I’ll check it out.
I use Lightroom from Adobe. It's pretty easy to use and you can download a 30 day trial to see how you like it. If you are on a mac you could check out Aperture (again, 30 day free trial). Also a good program. I chose lightroom because it works on both PC and MAC. So far it's been great for organizing my photos and correcting er, enhancing.... my photos.
I like paint shop pro. It used to be made by Jasc but I think adobe bought them up or something.
It was about 100 bucks the last time i looked.
The new version, Paint shop pro XI is $70 at Corel.com
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Thanks Alex. Elements was already on my list to look at.
Think nothing of it, Andrew. My pleasure. 
Elements 5 will do everything you'll need and, if you look around, it can be had for under $50. Add the latest Adobe RAW Converter and you've got about all you need. I've an older version of Photoshop but I never use it anymore.
As for combining images to get HDR (high dynamic range) Photomatix does a great job and is very intuitive.
There are many great noise reduction applications, some freeware and others shareware. Noise Ninja is among the best. Noiseware Community Edition is free and very good.
For panos try Autostitch, the easist and one of the best there is.
If you'd like to try some perspective correction download ShiftN, a nifty little freeware application. It easily corrects architectural lens distortions, etc.
As you can see, I like freeware whenever possible. If it's a great application I'll donate.
As for RAW, I'll bet you'll be shooting RAW exclusively very soon. You just have so much more flexibility over jpeg. Unless I'm shooting quick family photos I stay with RAW.
Hope this helps, arkiedan
Overall the answer is Photoshop. Photoshop Elements is a good choice if the high price tag of Photoshop is a turn-off. As for both, you can download a 30-day free (full function) trial from Adobe to see which one works best for you. Also, if you are a student (like that 1 unit into photo class at a community college) you can get Photoshop for almost half off.
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I think I need noise reduction. No, I know I need it….
There is some basic noise reduction ability in Photoshop. if you really need something serious (like shooting ISO3200 1/2 stop underexposed then pushing) you may want to look into something like Noise Ninja.
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I’d like to be able to combine shots taken where there is extreme exposure setting differences (like a really bright sunset over a dark mountain peak). I don’t know if there is anything that will do that, but I was thinking if I could take two pictures of the same thing, with two different exposures, I could cut and paste?? I dunno, maybe I’m just dreaming, but that would be cool.
Masking and layers in Photoshop is my personal favorite, but there are also some HDR abilities. With RAW you can actually do this sort of thing from a single exposure that is just processed multiple way (ie one for the sky, one for the ground, etc.)
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I’m still using JPEG, but think after I figure this thing out, I’ll use Raw + JPEG, so it would be cool if I didn’t have to use two separate programs to convert and process.
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That six hundred dollar Photo Shop is too expensive for me.
The student discount is ~$299. Go take an intro photo class at a college (and drop it after you buy if you really want). Photoshop elements is cheaper, but doesn't have all the features... but may have everything you need. Try them out!
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I'd like to stitch panoramas too.
Not really something that I've been able to do well in Photoshop (I've not really tried). I use the Canon PhotoStitch software that came with my cameras.
-Todd...
What Todd said.
Except, I really think Elements will end up being "enough" for you.
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Andrew. My pleasure.
Whoops!! Sorry Jack. that's what I get for typing while thinking.... I am in my 40's now, ya know...
OK..... I'm going to download all of em... Elements, C3, PSP, and this Bibble I keep hearing about. Light Room looks cool too, but I've been reading that ya still need Elements or C3 to augment it.
And I thought picking out a camera was a tough call.
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Andrew. My pleasure.
Whoops!! Sorry Jack. that's what I get for typing while thinking.... I am in my 40's now, ya know...
No problem, Mike. And no apology necessary. I got a good laugh out of it. 
And believe me when I say I understand, completely, anyone who has reached the point in life where trying to keep more than one ball in the air at a time means there will be soon be balls on the floor. (LEAVE IT ALONE, PETER! 
..........you too, Amie 
)
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anyone who has reached the point in life where trying to keep more than one ball in the air at a time means there will be soon be balls on the floor.
Note to self--after age sixty, stop buying boxers.
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Note to self--after age sixty, stop buying boxers.
Gimp was a huge piece o' crap for years until it was given a thorough cleanup. Now it's pretty nice. The wife uses Photoshop and has menus and windows opening and closing so fast I can't keep up without getting dizzy. But then she is a graphic artist. I use the Gimp on the rare occasions I want to manipulate a photo. Paintshop Pro was the favorite of the marketing folks at my last job. And it's still cheap.
I’ve downloaded Paint Shop Pro XI, Bibble Pro 4.98 and I tried to download Photoshop Elements 5. PSE is a 450 meg download that took me five hours. When I tried to install it, I got an error. Five hours wasted on that one….
Paint Shop Pro will not recognize my camera’s RAW files (too new I guess), but I can play with JPEGs. Bibble recognized the RAW files. So far, I have to give the nod to Bibble. It’ll take me years to figure this software out entirely, but what I’ve figured out so far is pretty darn cool. It has Noise Ninja and it works wonders on some shots that I messed up and forgot my ISO setting was set to 400 (they had lots of noise). It cleaned them up very well. The Noise tool on PSP didn’t do as well.
I’m still playing and have an Elements try out disk on order. If I like it, I’ll try the mack-daddy version next.
Now that the proper resting place for Alex's balls has been settled, I will add that I use Photoshop Elements and find it to be excellent.
Very full featured (BTW - buy a book of instructions you like for it). Has way more than an average 'crop it, touch it up, kill the old red eye" needs. Unless you are going to become a power user, it has waaayyy more than enough.
Does a nice job of cleaning up / restoring older photos you scan it as well.
Thanks for the original input on this one Alex.
Hey guys, it's Ray! Hi Ray! Did they kick you off the golf course or something?
Probably threw out his back with too much relaxing. I hear that happens to the differently-aged.
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Now that the proper resting place for Alex's balls has been settled, I will add that I use Photoshop Elements and find it to be excellent.
Very funny, very funny. 
Hello Ray my friend.
Well all balls deserve a good resting place, regardless of age or frequency of use…….
I happened to be wandering through Wal-Mart yesterday and they had Elements 5 with a $60 price tag on it. Not being able to pass up a good deal, I bought it.
For the past few days I’ve been playing around with Adobe Light Room 1.1 (trial download), and I think I’m going to stick with it for my Raw file editing. It’s super easy to use and fast. I prefer Bibble’s approach to how you transfer files and its batching process, but this LR appears to have everything I need for general picture adjustment, a great library module, great printing module and even a module for web specific picture editing (that I haven’t played with yet). I doubt I’ll need to do much more with any pictures in Elements after I get through with them in LR. $300 is pretty expensive though… I also prefer Noise Ninja that Bibble uses over LR’s noise reduction, but I suppose I can always buy that program and plug it into LR (maybe).
I have also just realized that I need a new printer. I printed out some 8X10’s and they look horrible. Oh well, I want to print some 16 X 20 / 32 prints anyway.
And then there’s the new lens(es) I want. Man this new hobby of mine is as expensive as A/V. I think I’m completely screwed now.
16x20 prints are going to cost you as much as the A1400...
I don't even have a printer for home anymore. I figure if I want something printed, it'll be something important and I'll have it printed professionally, as opposed to printing out random and pointless stuff just because I have a printer at home. I've only had a couple of things printed in the last several years, so I suppose I'm saving money so far.
Sorry - been travelling. Hi guys
I ended up buying Photoshop Lightroom and Elements and have been playing around with Raw files in LR quite a bit. According to my DSLR for dummies book, the author recommends converting Raw files to a Tiff format, as they have the least amount of compression.
Well I did some tweaks to about fifty shots in LR, then exported them as Tiff, uncompressed. My 10.2 meg Raw files turned into 57.1 meg Tiff files. Is this right?? At this rate and as many pictures that I’m taking, I’m going to need a lot more memory real quick. I was expecting the file size to go down, not be 5X larger….. .
I would recommend exporting them to jpeg. I'm not sure why they chose tiff. Did it mention setting a max (in pixels or cm or inches) to the photo?
I use Lightroom (very happy with it) on my PC and MAC both. I fix my mistakes (shoot in raw) then export to jpeg. The jpegs are still largish (3-5MBs) that look pretty good (if I say so myself). If you want I can send you a link of the pictures I have taken.
james
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According to my DSLR for dummies book, the author recommends converting Raw files to a Tiff format, as they have the least amount of compression.
My 10.2 meg Raw files turned into 57.1 meg Tiff files. Is this right?? I was expecting the file size to go down, not be 5X larger….. .
You answered your question with the first part of this statement. TIFF is an uncompressed file format, so the highest quality, but it results in very large files. The reason they are larger than the RAW files is that they have been processed (just think about all the extra data that is generated while your computer chews on the RAW file when you hit 'process').
JPEG is more than fine for all but the most critical of images. I prefer to save things that I have put significant time editing as .PSD (photoshop format) or .TIFF, as they will have no compression. I then save them as .JPG when needed. One thing of note, JPG will recompress the file each time you save... so if you open a file, save it a thousand times, then open it again there will be a decrease in quality (kinda like making serial copies of music). So the 'best' solution is a non-compressed file system (.TIFF), but for most things it really doesn't matter.
For most things, a JPG lvl12 is more than enough. The industry print standards are 300dpi saved as a .TIFF, but I've done side by side prints from JPG and TIFF and there is no noticable difference at 12x18.
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At this rate and as many pictures that I’m taking, I’m going to need a lot more memory real quick.
Honestly, storage is cheap compared to the cost of retaking many images (oh yeah, don't forget to have back-ups). Not all files need to be converted to .TIFF just for the sake of it. Keep the RAW files and process the ones you need. If you are just doing a batch processing that doesn't take much time you may just want to make a JPG and reprocess the RAW file if you ever need a non-compressed version (the nice thing about LR, etc. is they can save the settings you used to process an image to apply later).
When you start getting into serious layers, etc. you can get some really large files very quickly. I have a single image file (.PSD) that's up around 500MB... I don't even want to think about how large that would be if I converted it to a layered .TIFF file.
-Todd...
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TIFF is an uncompressed file format, so the highest quality, but it results in very large files.
TIFF can also be LZW compressed.
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The industry print standards are 300dpi saved as a .TIFF, but I've done side by side prints from JPG and TIFF and there is no noticable difference at 12x18.
The nice thing about receiving photos in TIFF is they retain their chroma resolution for image processing before going to print. Also, it should be mentioned that any "ink" prints (on a press or desktop printer) should be done from a CMYK colour space file (for 4 colour) or LAB colour space file (for hexachrome), while a traditional "photographic" print (to photographic paper) should be done from an RGB color space image.
Bren R.
Thanks Todd. I thought I did something wrong..
I’m still figuring out how to use LR 1.1, but can tell already that I better figure out a smart way file my photos.
How do you store / file yours? And after I download my raw files onto the computer and tweak them in LR, can I export them as JPEG and still find the Raw file? I’m not clear on how that works.
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How do you store / file yours?
Each memory card goes into a folder. The files are renumbered as follows:
YYMMDD_C####
Y = Year
M = Month
D = Day
C = Card Number for that day (1-9 then a-z)
#### = Four digit number created by the camera
An example from this weekend: "070729_10123.JPG", "070729_10124.JPG", etc.
This allows each file to have a unique number (ie. no two files will ever over wright each other). Because of this I can then move/copy all sorts of files wherever I want without worrying about missing giles.
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And after I download my raw files onto the computer and tweak them in LR, can I export them as JPEG and still find the Raw file? I’m not clear on how that works.
I don't use LR, so don't know how that handles things file wise. For me, when I have RAW and processed files they have different file extensions (.CRW, .TIFF, .JPG) so can be saved together in the same folder.
As for organizing the folders of files to know what is where... I have a really good memory so that helps... but with each file (from the above memory cards) I will give it a simple name:
MM_DD_YYYY - Name
An example from this weekend: "07_29_2007 - SJGP 1", then "07_29_2007 - SJGP 2", etc.
With most photo catalogue programs (I personally use iView Media Pro) you can then create previews for all of the files in a folder... with iView I can save each of these as separate files... typically one for each day.
-Todd...
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16x20 prints are going to cost you as much as the A1400...
sniff-sniff.... I had to pass on the A1400. Reality set in July 31 when I had to make “the call” and I realized how silly it is for me to think I need 1400 watts for a 12 X 16 room. The 80's and 600 are overkill with my POS back up AVR.
So I bought a printer... Just ordered a Canon iPF5000 with an extra set of ink cartridges ($1400). I hope they don't realize where I live before they ship it because I got free shipping and shipping that beast second day air will be mighty painful.
If you need someone to help calibrate your computer monitor and that new printer (so prints come out looking like what's on your screen), I'd be happy to do it for free -- minus airfare, of course. I've gotten pretty good at it in the last month at work.
Can you calibrate my projector too??