Got Wood?

Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Got Wood? - 03/19/09 07:05 PM

Adrian and I have been PMing each other with woodworking stuff, and it occurred to me that there are a few others here that are woodworkers.

Anyone want to join a woodworking gang?

Well, it'll really just be a PM thread, there's no leather involved or anything....

Though if it's OK with everyone, I could put a Frank Poncherello poster on the wall....next to Norm Abrams'.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/09 07:11 PM

Who supplies the viagra?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/09 07:18 PM

Everyone must wear an Al Borland checkered shirt, by the way.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/09 07:21 PM

I live in New Hampshire, and Adrian lives in Canada.

That means we have extra shirts if someone needs one.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/09 08:57 PM

I don't have any checkered shirts, but there's a 10" belt driven table saw in the corner of my bedroom. Does that count?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/09 08:58 PM

I'd like to be a woodworker, but I don't have the space. Or the spare money at the moment.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/09 09:19 PM

 Originally Posted By: fredk
I don't have any checkered shirts, but there's a 10" belt driven table saw in the corner of my bedroom. Does that count?
Sounds like Jeff Foxworthy...
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/09 09:56 PM

Sure...wood working is one of my 'other' hobbies. My new mortise cutter arrived today! No more cutting them with my drill press and chisels!
Posted by: Zarak

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/09 10:12 PM

I think I'll stay away from any threads that talk about who's sporting wood.
Posted by: BrenR

Re: Got Wood? - 03/20/09 03:48 AM

Does it count if I just work other people's wood?

You know, like strip, fill, sand and oil or urethane other people's wood?

Bren R.

(yes, Peter... I left that wide open)
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 03/20/09 04:58 AM

Count me in, although I don't get as much time to play with my wood as much as I would like. \:D
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 03/20/09 07:35 AM

I had a wisecrack remark about that Jay involving butt hinges and biscuit joiners but I realized I sounded too much like Larry the Cable Guy.

Other than that though, I'd enjoy a wood working thread. I'm no master craftsman so I'll think of it as taking a virtual apprenticeship.

This weekends project involves putting new shocks and a front diff skid plate on my Jeep. Oh wait, none of that involves wood.

Actually, one of my prized possessions used to be a super detailed, hand carved Jeep with painstakingly carved working leaf springs. The detail was incredible and the maker called it a 'toy' and was selling it for only 40 bucks. He must have put months into the thing. Alas, it rolled off of the shelf of our old house during Hurricane Juan and Cosmo, my trusty dog, decided he should be helpful and pick it up for me. He couldn't quiet figure out how to get his teeth around it securely so it was three chomps before he had tight and brought it over to me all proud with his tail wagging. What could I say, except, Good Dog!
Posted by: medic8r

Re: Got Wood? - 03/20/09 09:12 AM

Heck, we've got the beginnings of our own Blue Collar Comedy Tour! That's some good stuff raht tharr...
Posted by: medic8r

Re: Got Wood? - 03/20/09 09:16 AM

I want in!


Posted by: Argon

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 08:49 AM

I am not sure if this topic is pertinant to this thread - but here goes.......

I posted in another thread my agonies over purchasing from the Factory Outlet or waiting to save enough to go to the Custom Wood Shop. One of the regulars - Zimm, I think - suggested that I go with the Outlet and then do my own wood veneer. Couple of questions:

Axiom's Custom Wood Shop - does anyone know how thick or substantial their veneer is? From all the raves and reviews, I understand it to be of high quality - so the point of the question is could I even come close to replicating myself?

Wood Veneer in general - I am - ok - with wood working. I would not say that I could call it a hobby because I don't do enough of it - but I am ok at it and could call it a pleasant distraction. The thing about me when I do something - like home repair or improvement I generally overkill it and do it better than most that I could hire to do it. So.....having said that, how difficult a job would it be to do the veneer here in the home?

Thirdly, what type of veneer would I be looking for and where would a person typically get that veneer? I think Zimm recommended Paper backed?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 10:04 AM

Argon, I think Charles(Zimm) recommended paper backed for ease of installation for the first timer, non paper backed is a different type of installation. There are some tutorials on the 'net about veneer installation/applying usually on some of the veneer suppliers, for eg. this one .
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 11:17 AM

Yeah... Zimm is the Veneer guy!

Honestly, my original purpose in posting here was to see if there were 5 people that might be interested in "getting together" off the forums in a PM thread (limit: 5 people). I know I've enjoyed "off the forum" PM threads, as you don't have to worry about things being "public" or politically-correct. I guess the PMs seem to me like five guys talking at a table, instead of five guys talking in into mics on a stage!

It seems like there's more than five that might be interested, though... so why not try this in the forums? For all I know, it'll die out after a week. Or, it could end up like the wine-lover's thread or the beer-lover's thread... though I assume that one has much wider interest! \:\)

Anyway, I'm going to start by introducing my "woodworking self"... hopefully others will chime in with their woodworking alter-ego...

Like many, I became interested in high school Wood Shop classes. I never really was interested in metalworking or any of the other shop classes.

In my senior year, I built this as my first project... (I don't remember for the life of me how I passed the time until I built this):



In hindsight, it was pretty simplistic, but served it's purpose well for a few years in college.

There was a woodworking lull after high school until Joyce and I bought a house in 1990, at which time I bought a Craftsman tablesaw, a Delta bandsaw a Delta drill press and a house-brand 6"x48" belt / 9" disc combination sander. To this point, I've never really attempted furniture, but always built practical, needed things, often for my business.

My old editing and duplication station. Only photo I could find... Ignore the blurry parts on the fringe, it was part of a montage where it was "morphing" into other photos to produce this whole big, morphing promo piece that I created before I knew anything about Photoshop. It had "under counter lighting" above the audio and video mixers (oooohhh....aahhhh), a section designed for rackmount equipment and a separate section to hold globs of VCRs for duplication:



An oak copystand... You mount a still or video camera (facing down) on the column, put flat artwork on the base to photograph it. The pieces on the sides were adjustable and held lights on an angle to avoid reflections:



A little more recently, a mobile workstation in Maple to house my duplicators and a single disc printer (my duplication capabilities have increased, but I still use this station):



The only decorative thing I think I ever built was this oak/glass enclosure for a model car for a friend... really more of a joke-gift than anything else, but decided to do a "this is your craftsman grandfathers' workbench" photo of it as a self-assignment. A little heavy on the soft focus, but I didn't know Photoshop at that point either... or I would now back off on the soft focus \:\) :



Anyway, I've never built a table or a chair or anything that qualifies as furniture... mostly practical stuff.

With my decision to not photograph concerts this year, I decided I'm going to spend more time golfing, kayaking, woodworking and taking on projects around the house. So, in the last 6-9 months, I bought a Jet jointer, a Jet 1.5 HP dust collector system (and built a PVC infrastructure for it), a router table and bigger Triton Router, and recently, a Ridgid tablesaw and Ridgid Planer. I've also bought a TON of smaller things here and there... lots of pipe clamps, blades, Router bits, and various contraptions of all types. Next, I'm looking at Dovetail Jigs and like Mike, I want a Mortiser. Last night, I bought an Incra Miter Gauge that's on sale at Amazon (ENDS THIS WEEKEND...HURRY, HURRY!!) \:\)

I need to prioritize home-improvement projects over coming "furniture" projects, but I'm revamping and reorganizing my workshop area to prepare for all this. First up is drawers/cabinets for the workshop, then I'm going to rebuild a section of drawers in the kitchen.

OK, who's next??
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 11:33 AM

OK, if we're doing this show and tell thing...

This is the first (and only) thing I've ever built. I'm very proud of it (although there were a few bumps in the road), and I really enjoyed doing it.



It's made of white oak, which was a joy to work with. It also has doors now (this was taken back when I had the M50s).
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 11:53 AM

Wow, Ken... very very nice! Nicer than anything I've ever built! Where's the photos with the doors? \:\)

Was it made from plans or are you one of those people that make it up as you go along??? Sure doesn't look it!!!
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 11:59 AM

Well, mine is nothing to write home about, but this was my first project. It's very simple, but I'm proud because I built it from scratch. A couple of amp stands for my tube amps:



Both of my Grandpa's worked with wood. One was a carpenter and the other liked to whittle. I've always enjoyed admiring woodworking but have never really jumped into it like I've wanted. I hope to get some ideas sparked from this thread!
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 12:00 PM

Yeah, Ken, I still can't believe that was your first project! That looks really nice!!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 12:25 PM

The "home improvement" route is what has started me off into the woodworking hobby. Back in high school, woodshop was probably my favourite course of all, something I always looked forward to...on the flipside, I disliked machine shop so it was only natural that I become a Tool & Die maker and work in a M/C shop for over 20 yrs later on

So, a couple of years ago, I began renovating my home, which is now 17 yrs old, not that old but, needing some updating. I decided to start with some 3/4" hardwood floors throughout the main floor, so I ripped up all the broadloom, bought a Makita belt sander and took out the peaks in the floor and shimmed the lower spots. I had to replace one 4x8 floor section because the patio doors had leaked and rotted the floor area next to them...the sliding doors were replaced with twin garden doors. Next, a 3/8 subfloor was laid down, with a layer of tar paper stapled over top as a vapour barrier and to allow the hardwood to move with temp/humidity changes. The wood I chose is called Acashi, it grows in Africa and has a very rich reddish-brown patina and very intricate grain to it....it is mistakenly referred to as African Walnut, when in fact, it is in the Mahogany family of woods.

Since I was redoing the entire main floor, I figured I'd also repaint the walls and change the crappy 3" baseboards to some 4 1/2" baseboard as well as install some chair rails, wainscot, picture rails ect depending on which room and also add crown moulding throughout the house.

Next, I redid the washrooms and powder room, tearing up the lino and replacing it with ceramics using the concrete board/thinset style of installation, afterwhich I replaced/updated all the faucettes (I still haven't replaced the lighting yet).

In the kitchen, I redid the cabinets in off-white melamine(from natural oak), added a granite backsplash, trimmed the underside of the cabinets and installed puck lighting. The lino floors were redone in ceramics using the concrete board method, this time I cut some of the tiles into quarter sections to create a custom/staggered look, which turned out nicely. I added various transition pieces for the ceramic/hardwood steps, then changed the beautiful builder's 'globe' lights with a 2x4 flourescent in the main kitchen and a light/fan in the breakfast nook.

I've done a few other renos on top of these but, as such, I've accumulated a number of tools to do these projects...Porter Cable compressor, Bostitch floor(cleate) nailer, 12" sliding Craftsman Mitre saw, Ridgid table saw, Makita belt sander, ect. I've also picked up a few tools (when the price was to good to resist) that I will use down the road, perhaps to build a cottage or workshop(Bostitch Framing nailers, F28ww and the Strapshot nailer, bostitch palm nailer and Milwaukee roofing nailer).

So, lately I helped one of my neighbours build an armoire for his sister out in Quebec which he will deliver next week, and it has perked my interest to try making some furniture or something other than doing home reno's. I know I'll need a lot more tools still, I've recently picked up the 13" Ridgid planer and am presently looking to buy a Router and Biscuit Joiner(will need a jointer someday too! and clamps, a band saw, oscillating sander...)

Sorry about the lack of pictures, I need to pick up a decent(but not expensive) digital camera and I'll post some shots if I can(also of the speakers!)

So, I hopefully we can get a thread going here, where people can get/give advice re woodworking or if someone sees a good deal on some equip't they might want to pass along, feel free.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 01:25 PM

Mine was definitely from a plan--found it in a magazine at my friend's house. He said we could knock out a couple in a weekend. My wife purchased the wood for the project, and over a year later, I finished the cabinet! That's when I got clearance to order the M50s.

My friend's cabinet is still $200 worth of cut pieces of wood sitting in his garage. Weekend my ass.

Adrian, sounds like your project just snowballed. Glad to hear that it turned out well. As for a camera, I recommend one of the little Canon Powershots--they're quit inexpensive (~$100) and take decent pictures.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 02:03 PM

Nice cabinet, Ken. You should try a new project....Yes, my renos did snowball, lol, but it was worth it.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 02:04 PM

Unfortunately, the woodworking tools I have access to are over 100 miles away. When I have a house... ahaha. Like I'll have money for tools after I buy a house. ;\)
Posted by: CV

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 02:17 PM

 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
With my decision to not photograph concerts this year [...]


Oh, no! No Regina concert pics for me!

And that was a great little history of your woodworking experiences. I would love to know how to make stuff like that, but it's such an intimidating hobby to me.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 04:37 PM

Well, so far, Regina isn't scheduled.

Jack will be mad at me, though, as Diana Krall is !
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 04:39 PM

Adrian, I had decided I wanted you as a neighbor even before reading about the armoire!

I really, really envy all that "handyman" knowledge. There are SO many projects in this 110-year-old house that I would love to try, but it really scares me to bite off more than I can chew!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 04:40 PM

Sean, I don't remember how you made use of both those pieces(??!!??).

I only see feet on one?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 04:56 PM

Mike:
What kind of Mortiser did you get? I was kind of eyeing a Jet desktop...
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 05:12 PM

110 yr old house is a little different than a 17 yr old house as far as renos go Mark. It would be nice to capture/take advantage of some of the history in your area/house if you started any projects, though.
As far as tackling new projects goes, I think being in the toolmaking trade helped alot...having to solve problems as they arose when building machinery, you didn't have too much time either so you needed to come up with a solution, then make the parts in the shop. I tend to look at alot of things in respects to "how they are made" and "I can make/do that".
Beware about renos though, you may find yourself starting into other projects along the way....I'll do the bathroom floor in ceramics...hmmm, maybe update the plumbing while I'm at it...heck, if I update the plumbing I'll install a new shower unit...gotta install a new toilet with matching faucettes to go with that....I wonder how much new cabinets are?
From the work you've showed us, I'm sure you'd be fine tackling some reno projects, Mark. Just don't try to get away with cutting corners in the wrong places, and don't talk yourself out of a project because you think it's overwhelming. Start with a smaller job to fertilize your ego a bit before you build a third story above your house
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 05:13 PM

 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Mike:
What kind of Mortiser did you get? I was kind of eyeing a Jet desktop...
Is that one of those chain mortisers?
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 05:35 PM

The only pic I can find of my last big project



There are shelves just above the coats now.
Posted by: CV

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 05:38 PM

Wow, are the white stripes on that jacket made out of halo material?
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 05:56 PM

Yes, my son is an angel ;\)
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 06:11 PM

Jay- Nice!! My sister needs / wants something like that!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 06:16 PM

 Originally Posted By: Adrian
Is that one of those chain mortisers?


Nope. Of course, I don't know what a chain mortiser is!


Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 06:25 PM

Example of a chain mortiser
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 06:35 PM

Pretty cool!

I've always wanted to build a log home. Is that all I need?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 06:39 PM

You don't even need that, just a swiss army knife from what I've heard.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 06:43 PM

Anyone own a router out there(the wood kind of course)? I'm looking at a Triton router, seems to have some good features on it, also considering a Milwaukee.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 07:26 PM

I'll abstain re: the router since we've already PM'd about it.

What you were saying regarding the Home Improvements is exactly my problem. The two major areas where I want to do work (the kitchen and the main bathroom) really will require a total rebuild as far as I'm concerned.

For example, here is our pantry, off the kitchen:


We have to replace the faucet and sink. If we do that, we have to rebuild the counters from where the old big-azz sink was. And, we have to redo the backsplash.

I already need to redo the drawers (not visible on the lower right) and the floor is dark, ugly and in poor shape. Oh yeah, the floor is asbestos too.

Our main bathroom is the same type of thing. We only have a freestanding tub that we converted with a portable shower hose, permanantly mounted (the plumbing side of the tub is in front of the window, so there's no wall). If we remove the tub, we would likely replace it with a standing shower and it would need to be moved to another location. To do that, we would have to move the radiator. Replace the old sink, cabinet and toilet, and we would have to replace the flooring. This is the bathroom that is prone to pipe freezes in the winter, and the pipes go right above the windy in the pantry photo. So, it would be dumb not to take care of that while we're doing everything else.

Before we know it, we've got $20,000 worth of work to do in the bathroom and $50,000 in the kitchen!

So yeah.... I'm hesitant to get myself into it! Especially with the "frustration factor" of having a kitchen or your main bathroom (only place to shower!) under construction!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 08:38 PM

For the kitchen, why not consider keeping the cabinets but replacing the doors only, replace the counter top(a nice granite one) and new sink, and backsplash. Then ceramic the floors. I'm sure you could do this for less than $5G total, probably less than $3 if you bought yourself a Freud rail/stile cutter ;\) You could make your own counter top from 3/4" ply and ceramic the top of it, as another option(cheaper, still looks nice).

You can get a stand-up shower/tub combo if you have the room for it. Some of these are in 2 or 3 sections to make it easier to move into place and install, also some have a closed top vs open top. Getting involved with a lot of plumbing changes is something I'd only do if you're going to stay in your house. Why not get a couple of estimates with no obligation, you might steal some ideas from the contractor!

Without getting too personal, Mark, are your pipes exposed on the outside of the house?
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 09:25 PM

Good idea on the thread Mark. Many years ago when internet forums were the ‘new’ thing, I stumbled onto one called Badger Pond Woodworking. I was very fortunate to get some sage advice when I first started dabbling in woodworking. I had conversations with some very reputable individuals and authors of books. Sadly, the forum was shut down as it was being run from an individual’s home PC and he just couldn’t afford to keep it running. I haven’t found another since then that had the same friendly atmosphere. It was similar to these boards…..

So anyway, my history with woodworking is about like everyone else’s. I am self taught and consider myself a novice. I learned quite a bit watching Norm’s show. He’s one of my hero’s..LOL. Working with my hands is something I enjoy. It really doesn’t matter what it is, it just comes naturally to me. I have no other talents, unfortunately… Woodworking relaxes me. My day job can be pretty stressful and this is a good distraction for me to ‘turn it all off’. I love the smell of fresh cut hardwoods and the hum of a finally balanced table saw. I build all sorts of stuff. From furniture (no chairs!) to cabinets to houses. I justify the expense of tools and machines by the fact that they cost less than what I would pay a professional to do for me. I do some odd things for friends / family and they pay me what it costs me for materials and tools, plus they do me favors (it works). I have an LLC and one of my ‘companies’ is md woodworks. I also do odd remodels, finish work and act as general contractor for home building (md construction). I make just enough to show a profit and keep the IRS from hunting me down. My other business is md motor works. I build high end street / strip and race engines. I haven’t done much with this the last two or three years though. I don’t really have a shop large enough for engine stands and woodworking machines. Plus, assembly lube, grinding dust and sawdust don’t mix well…. Some day I hope to be in a position financially where I can make enough to make ends meet doing this, but not so much I no longer enjoy it. That’s the ‘plan’ anyway. I suppose I should mention I absolutely HATE finishing. I do not have a spray booth, so everything is by brush and it friggin sucks.

Mark,

I love the maple desk. Is that curly maple? Very, very nice work. The mortise cutter I bought is a Delta bench top. It’s not the one I want, but I do not have room for a free standing unit. I went with Delta because I already have a set of cutters that I bought years ago with a Delta drill press attachment. I never did use it because I went out and bought a Rigid drill press and the attachment won’t fit. I ordered it from Amazon and they sent it to me with free shipping. All other places I looked wanted about $250 to ship one to me. It was a no-brainer. I have a cabinet to build that I plan to use M/T joinery, so I hope to try it out next week.

I also use a Rigid table saw. I see that I’m not alone. I really want a cabinet saw with a 50” fence, but I just don’t have room for one. The Rigid sucks when working with sheet goods, but I’ve learned to deal with that. I use an Incra miter gauge, have for years and absolutely love that thing. You’ll love yours too.

I built my own router table. I used Norm’s router table plan and love it too. I use a 3 ½ horse Hitachi plunge router with it. I made it a wee bit larger than the plan, but basically followed it pretty close. If anyone is in the market for a router table, I recommend building this one. The plan even comes with a video. It’s straight forward and simple.

A few other tools I’ve acquired and use frequently: Jet 6” joiner, Jet 12” bandsaw, Rigid 13” plainer, Jet dust collector, Porter Cable 24” dovetail cutter with adjustable templates and sliding dovetail template (the ‘old’ style). I have several routers, but always tend to grab my old faithful Porter Cable. I use a Dewalt biscuit cutter a lot too. Then of course there’s a few grand worth of misc router bits, table saw blades, dado cutters, jig saws, Betsy clams (never, never can you have enough clamps). I have an assortment of pneumatic nailers and staplers. My favorite is my old Makita 18 gauge brad nailer. Another thing I use all the time is a table saw sled that I built. I use it for cross cutting panels on the table saw. I can’t believe how long I struggled without this thing.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 10:06 PM

Rigid table saw here as well.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/09 10:28 PM

 Quote:
my decision to not photograph concerts this year


Okay, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

I mean, if you weren't forsaking this gig for something during which you could lose a finger or worse, I'd really wonder about you.

I jealous of all y'alls talent and skills.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/09 04:20 PM

 Originally Posted By: Adrian
For the kitchen, why not consider keeping the cabinets but replacing the doors only, replace the counter top(a nice granite one) and new sink, and backsplash. Then ceramic the floors. I'm sure you could do this for less than $5G total, probably less than $3 if you bought yourself a Freud rail/stile cutter ;\) You could make your own counter top from 3/4" ply and ceramic the top of it, as another option(cheaper, still looks nice).


See, this is why I need you as a neighbor. You're so confident that you make this stuff sound easy! (Well, I already have bought a rail/stile bit set in anticipation of this and other projects!). And, what do I do with the asbestos-laden flooring? Bury it in my my neighbor's backyard?

I actually would only replace the cabinet doors (and matching face trim). Part of the "experiment" within building that spice rack was matching the finish to the finish that's (freakin') everywhere in this kitchen.. including the walls!

I'm not sure how well I would do with the granite or tile counters. I really think I'd have to leave that to experts.

Much of the problem here is that nothing is exactly square or level, so everything always has to be jury rigged.

 Originally Posted By: Adrian
You can get a stand-up shower/tub combo if you have the room for it. Some of these are in 2 or 3 sections to make it easier to move into place and install, also some have a closed top vs open top. Getting involved with a lot of plumbing changes is something I'd only do if you're going to stay in your house. Why not get a couple of estimates with no obligation, you might steal some ideas from the contractor!


Yeah, the enclosure is what we were planning. We're planning on being here for a long haul, because it's a good location for the business.

 Originally Posted By: Adrian
Without getting too personal, Mark, are your pipes exposed on the outside of the house?

No, but they are above that pantry in an area that's just open to the rear porch roof. I cut a good sized hole in the pantry ceiling and was surprised to see a large uninsulated area that had air at about -15° pouring out of it as if it were a wide-open window. I put a square of plywood over it and told myself I'd cut it bigger in March/May and try to see exactly what's up there!
Posted by: Argon

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/09 04:40 PM

I have a regular "Day" job - my wife and I also buy houses and fix them up. The original intent was to flip them but the bottom fell out and we fix them up and rent them out. We went slow enough that we were not impacted. We bought all the houses low enough that the rent we collect is almost double the mortgage payment. When you buy houses like this, often you get into serious renovation work. It amazes me that people will just ignore water leaks until their entire bathroom or kitchen floor is rotten - including the joists underneath. My brother showed me the ropes - the first time you take your circular saw and set it to 1 1/2 inch deep and then cut the floor out is a bit intimidating. SO - you get into some rough woodwork when you start sistering joists and jacking up sagging floors.

On the lighter side, I have built cabinets where I took some fir that had fine grain and routed down a side to make it look like the tongue and groove paneling that was frequently used in the 60's. They came out pretty good. One christmas I did a lot of trays for all the ladies in the family. I'd post some pics if someone can point me to a thread that walks me through the pic posting process........
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/09 04:55 PM

Posting photos on the Axiom boards isn't too bad.

Open a free account at Photobucket.com. Check out this FAQ and the "Photobucket Overview" questions on the left. You'll want to make your photos smallish so they don't end up gigantic when posted.

After you've uploaded images, hover over the image that you want to post here in the forums. A little box will pop up under the image. Move your mouse over the bottom one and click it to copy it (on some computers it will copy the info as you click it, others you'll have to copy the info).

Now, in the Axiom forums, click "paste" in a text box when composing a message and it'll put in all the right info. You can preview your Axiom post to make sure it worked!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/09 04:57 PM

I've considered fixing up/selling homes before but never tried it. In a good housing market, I'm sure it's a viable way to make some coin. In the US, do they hit you on Capital Gains tax like they do in Canada. Here, if you sell your primary residence, you are not taxed on any capital profits but if you sell a second house or cottage which is NOT your primary residence the gov't dings you for something like 50% of the gain(assuming there is one).

Mark, I have no idea what one does with asbestos.... ;\) maybe send it to China so they can make toys, drywall, or clothing out of it or something...
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/09 05:17 PM

 Originally Posted By: MDrew
My day job can be pretty stressful and this is a good distraction for me to ‘turn it all off’. I love the smell of fresh cut hardwoods and the hum of a finally balanced table saw.


I feel the same exact way. I have a running gag with Joyce where I come up from the shop at the end of the day, act like I just remembered something important and say "CRAP! You know what I forgot while I was down in the woodshop?" She feigns along and asks "what?" and I reply "Everything!" with a smile!


 Quote:
I also use a Rigid table saw

Which one? I just bought the 3630 for $330 because Home Depot


was making room for the new Granite-topped ones. It's not the cabinet saw I planned on retiring with, but better than my Craftsman as it has a much better fence and better rip capacity, dust collection, great mobile base setup... etc.

 Quote:
Jet 6” joiner, Jet 12” bandsaw, Rigid 13” plainer, Jet dust collector {{SNIPPED}} I use a Dewalt biscuit cutter a lot too. {{SNIPPED}} My favorite is my old Makita 18 gauge brad nailer.


It's funny how many tools we have in common. I forgot to mention in my "about me" post that I bought a Porter Cable bicuit joiner and compressor/3 gun setup that I love!

Good to have you in the gang! If I could ever build a piece of furniture as nice as Ken, a wine room as nice as yours, or the rest of my house as good as Adrian, I'd die a happy man! \:\)


Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/09 05:37 PM

My some of you have nice toys. My table saw is a Rexon. Never heard of them? They're made in the same factory as all those brand name jobies, but cost a lot less.

I can't say I have made a lot. My first major piece was an aquarium stand I made in a class at my local college. Got to use their shaper, planers 'n stuff to make it pannel construction out of cherry.

My last project was a canoe seat using hand cut mortice & tennon joints. It was surprisingly easy.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/09 05:48 PM

$330.00 is a steal for that table saw Mark. Mine was $350.00 CN, it's the portable version of the Ridgid.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/09 05:51 PM

Ummmm....photos?

C'mon, Fred..... you know the forum rules.

We're just letting Adrian off the hook at the moment because he's building a camera from a wood block.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/09 05:53 PM

 Originally Posted By: Adrian
$330.00 is a steal for that table saw Mark.


Yeah, that's why I couldn't pass it up. I still had enough left over from the CFO's "WoodShow Budget" to get the planer, and everything else I wanted except a dovetail jig, so why not? \:\)
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/09 05:55 PM

I,m waiting on a chunk of Bubinga from Cameroon, they take the best pictures.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/09 05:56 PM

Only if you're willing to carry around all that weight.

I build my cameras out of basswood. \:\)
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/09 06:12 PM

BASSwood would be good for subs wouldn't it?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/09 06:23 PM

Funny guy!

Of course, lots of people call it BASE...one of my pet peeves!
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/09 08:19 PM

I use the table top Rigid saw as well with the folding stand, need a bigger garage or dedicated room to use anything else. Anything I use has to be put away and be as compact as possible, we actually park cars in our garage too, which was very nice today considering the foot of snow we just received
Posted by: RickF

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/09 08:23 PM

You guys are just way too talented. If the need ever arises I'd probably do *OK* with framing and rough out but with finishing, I'd have to leave to you experts.

Great stuff guys!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/09 08:59 PM

Amazon has a Hitachi M12VC 2 1/4hp router for $103.91 right now.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/09 09:15 PM

Not sure if any of you might be interested in this sort of thing but I am a member to this and there are some good benefits, monthly magazine, how to books(extra cost) especially for those in the States, special pricing on some things and such. You also get a chance to try out some new tools for reviews and such , if you are so inclined.

http://www.handymanclub.com/Main/default.aspx
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/23/09 09:06 AM

Mark,

Regarding your asbestos floor, I know a thing or two about abatement. I can give you tips for removing it safely, per regulation, but that will have to be via PM or phone.

Today is a road trip. I need to drive about 600 miles to get some more 'stuff'. I'm making bass traps this week.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/09 01:23 PM

I don't have any pics handy, but I've knocked out a number of rough projects - large area decks, monster swing sets (w/ fire pole, rock wall, two towers, bridge, etc, etc) and some basic tables for outdoor use.

I built our kitchen table, but nature gets most of the credit. I found a 4 foot tall camphor burled tree trunk at a flee market. Cut it to size, and put a plate of glass on top to make a table for all our meals. I promise, there is no table like it. Love it or hate it, it is unique. Holes and colors and swirls - the damn think looks possessed and liquid, and I could not get it out of my head once I saw it. (Those without my undeniable creative genius might see wood impersonating dog crap! But what do they know...) All I did was cut it and oil rub the top, so I don't claim it as wood work really.

Needed seating so I built what I think is called banquet seating - think a bench in a corner with seating along two sides. The top opens so we gain a good bit of storage area at the same time, and can seat 6 or 7 for food and drinks.

My father was an inventor of sorts, DIY'er extreme, and owner of a manufacturing company so I had access to metal and wood tools all my life. I love to create things, but the practice of law has stolen most of my time for such pleasures. That project to redo the look of my speakers was actually one of the more fun projects I have done in some time. Nice to break out of the comfort zone every now and then. (And for the record, that swing set was the most difficult project I have undertaken...probably ever.)

Yes, yes, I'll try to get some pics!
Posted by: onn

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/09 02:40 PM

 Originally Posted By: Zimm
monster swing sets


I see a lawsuit in someones future \:o
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/09 03:30 PM

 Originally Posted By: onn
 Originally Posted By: Zimm
monster swing sets

I see a lawsuit in someones future \:o

You have no idea how appropriate your comment is. I'll cut to the chase, but suffice it say we had a Griswold Family meeting. Everyone wanted one of those big play sets. Then I got the price. "9,000 what; Ma'am, I hope you mean pesos." So, I said "I can build one even better!" I had it mapped out in my mind, but the details kill you, and I had taken for granted the amount of R&D the big boys had access to. (Not to mention skill!)

Well, flash forward post construction. Many pints of blood lost, many complaints of "the one in the picture had this, and why is this here, and SHUT UP AND START SWINGING!"

You see, my brilliant idea was that instead of paying for some place to have the kid's birthday party, I would have the party at home and offset the construction cost. That worked. But when 35 5 and 6 year olds showed up and attacked the play set, all I could think was "how do I get all these parents to sign a waiver before some one bleeds without causing a panic". I actually started making mental notes of which parents had paid enough attention that I could argue they willing accepted the risk obviously presented by the swing of death.

And in my defense, the idea of a bridge, with monkey bars on the underside along with the swings, was very sound in concept. Who could known a 5 year old is too dumb young to realize crossing the monkey bars while another dumb equally young 5 yr old is swinging, while yet another is kicking sand on them from the bridge overhead would, without a doubt, result in a collision. Shocked, I know. Who could have seen it coming.

But, it is a cool play-set! Damn it.

*No children were harmed in the making of this satirical retelling of fact, so save the calls to Social Services!*
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/09 03:38 PM

 Originally Posted By: mdrew
Mark,

Regarding your asbestos floor, I know a thing or two about abatement. I can give you tips for removing it safely.


Mark, the trick is to break it into very little pieces and transport them to the dumpster without a breathing apparatus. Wait; that might be wrong. Better check around.


*Obviously joking Mark, my DIY handbook says run from asbestos as fast as possible. *
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/09 04:35 PM

Really, having the "Bed 'O Spikes" under the Monkey Bars might have been mildly reckless.

"Thirty Five kids at this Party? Really? I only remember 33 actually arriving here. I honestly have no recollection of the other two. Try on what glove?"
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/09 04:42 PM

 Originally Posted By: mdrew
Regarding your asbestos floor, I know a thing or two about abatement. I can give you tips for removing it safely, per regulation, but that will have to be via PM or phone.

Today is a road trip. I need to drive about 600 miles to get some more 'stuff'. I'm making bass traps this week.


Thanks Mike! I didn't want to bother you with this yesterday, but I just might take you up on your offer! We've been here with this floor for almost 20 years, so there's no rush on my end. I have started to wonder though, whether I could tackle putting in a Pergo-type floor but of course I'd have to deal with removal of the old one first!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/09 04:43 PM

The "Slide of Fire" is more entertaining any-hooo!
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/09 05:17 PM

Mark,

Depending on your sub floor, you could always screw/glue some 3/8 AC over it and then lay the laminate over the AC. This is a common practice. Transition strips between this area and other rooms would take up the differing floor heights.

If you decide to remove the old flooring, the difficult part for you wouldn’t be the removal, but the disposal. Removal is simple really. The hardest part is putting plastic up EVERYWHERE but the remediation area, and also taping the plastic. Then you have to dispose of the plastic as well as the material.

But, even if you did remove it yourself, from a regulatory perspective, it’s still there. Remediation is only “officially” recognized if it is removed by someone holding a fitness card. Oh, and if you ever sell the house, and you know it has asbestos flooring (or the appraiser), you may have no choice but to have it removed. It’s no different than if you have an underground fuel tank, you have to get soil samples tested and prove the tank isn’t / hasn’t leaked. If the samples show hydrocarbon levels, you get the joy of paying someone to remove the soil and dispose of it.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/09 08:06 PM

 Originally Posted By: mdrew
Mark,

Depending on your sub floor, you could always screw/glue some 3/8 AC over it and then lay the laminate over the AC. This is a common practice. Transition strips between this area and other rooms would take up the differing floor heights.

If you decide to remove the old flooring, the difficult part for you wouldn’t be the removal, but the disposal. Removal is simple really. The hardest part is putting plastic up EVERYWHERE but the remediation area, and also taping the plastic. Then you have to dispose of the plastic as well as the material.

But, even if you did remove it yourself, from a regulatory perspective, it’s still there. Remediation is only “officially” recognized if it is removed by someone holding a fitness card. Oh, and if you ever sell the house, and you know it has asbestos flooring (or the appraiser), you may have no choice but to have it removed. It’s no different than if you have an underground fuel tank, you have to get soil samples tested and prove the tank isn’t / hasn’t leaked. If the samples show hydrocarbon levels, you get the joy of paying someone to remove the soil and dispose of it.


Yeah MARK! Don't laugh (or make me laugh) at my spike trap monkey bar set, or the slide of fire, or the fireman's pole that lack the clearance to get you down without a brush burn, when you have an old fuel tank under your house! Let's see you cross monkey bars over that!

(And yes, it was the slide from hell. I may have misjudged the angle while building, by 10-45 degrees, or so. Let's just say we had to re-engineer the slide after the party. I had forgot about that kid that basically got sky-kicked by the girl coming down at 98 mph. Fun day for all. All 33, or however many left that day.)
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/09 08:25 AM

I'm no expert but when they removed asbestos from the basement of the building I work in, it was like a scene from a sci-fi movie. The hallway leading to the work area had a sealed tent where the workers entered, stripped down and entered a second tent which housed showers for the way out and that led into another tent where they put on their special suits. All of the outbound air went via giant tubes to a huge filtering unit that exhausted outside.

Scary stuff.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/09 09:31 AM

We haven't worried TOO much about our kitchen floor, as we were told, in that particular application, it wasn't too big of a deal to live with or remove.

We have asbestos on some of the pipes in the basement, though, and in some areas it's kind of "broken open". It's hard not to think about it as I hope to spend more time down there....
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/09 09:32 AM

So Murph, if I hire you to come down here and set up a high-level network, you DON'T want a cot in the basement?

Just checkin'.....
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/09 10:39 AM

The expert who gave us a learning session at our Health and Safety committee meeting before the cleanup told us that for the most part, asbestos is only dangerous when disturbed as it's rate of just 'breaking down' and going airborne is extremely slow. Normally when undisturbed, asbestos in a a wall or something is often safer just left there than removed.

That being said, the asbestos insulation on the pipes in the basement was much like your situation. It was exposed, breaking open and chunks could flop around. It's very brittle so this can create airborne particles. In fact, I can't offer an opinion on your basement but I'd feel more comfortable having an expert look at it, if you haven't already.

So no, I'd love to visit New Hampshire again but I'll be putting up a tent in your backyard.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/09 10:44 AM

Actually, we got estimates of around $2500 for removal right after we bought the house. I'm guessing that's about $7500 now.

If we had kids, or I was spending lots of time down there over the years, it would have been removed immediately.

As it now stands, it's just the occasional cumputer Geek down there for a night or two, and I have to believe all that deep coughing they do the week after is cleansing their system of anything bad.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/09 11:54 AM

 Originally Posted By: MarkS Johnson

As it now stands, it's just the occasional computer Geek down there for a night or two, and I have to believe all that deep coughing they do the week after is cleansing their system of anything bad.


Mark, be careful. I don't want to alarm you. There is a ton of asbestos litigation around here and I know several attorneys that do that kind of work, on both sides of the table. The particles can't be coughed up, that's the problem. The little glass like crystals cannot be removed from the complex web of the lungs, and result in mesothelioma (lung cancer). It is rampant around here as asbestos was a common product in the oil and gas manufacturing sector in the 50s - 80s. It's fine unbroken, but if your dealing with busted up stuff, seek help my friend. At least wrap it up so the particles can't escape if you are not going to remove it.
Sincerely, Chicken Little
Posted by: onn

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/09 12:00 PM

Mark one thing to think about is if your furnace is in the basement it may be drawing fibres into your ductwork and throughout your house. Since I don't know your setup it's had to tell. Had you had your home tested for asbestos fibres?
Mel N.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/09 12:09 PM

Mark is going to wish he never raised this issue.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/09 12:31 PM

Charles, you know I was kidding about anyone else being down there, right? I wasn't sure, as you had no smilies in your post!??!

You're right that it needs attention, though. I DO know that... but we also know that no one else gets exposed but us, and we spend very, very little time down there. The only reason I'm giving it more thought, is that I'd like to plan on spending more time down there with my new-found woodworking re-interest. \:\)
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/09 12:33 PM

 Originally Posted By: onn
Mark one thing to think about is if your furnace is in the basement it may be drawing fibres into your ductwork and throughout your house. Since I don't know your setup it's had to tell. Had you had your home tested for asbestos fibres?
Mel N.


Actually, we have a gas-fired steam boiler, so there's no air moving around. Seriously... thanks for the concern though! \:\)
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/09 02:22 PM

Anybody else disappointed by Mark's complete lack of freaking out here?
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/09 02:35 PM

He's not ::running away doing anything......::
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/09 02:59 PM

We should call his wife and let her know Mark is keeping a dark secret in the basement.



Edit:...and there is asbestos down there.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/09 03:01 PM

Really, I'm just afraid that if some asbestos guy is poking around there, he might question the fresh earth in the corner....
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/09 03:32 PM

Just tell him you had a leak in the foundation, that usually works, ummm...I saw that in a movie.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/27/09 09:12 AM

Anyone here doing dovetails?

I might pick up either a Keller setup or a PorterCable 4212 or a Rockler. I've wanted to try dovetails for awhile, but at the moment have many projects needing drawers.

Any input appreciated from you "dovers".... \:\)
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/27/09 09:51 AM

I could be wrong, Mark, but I always thought that Porter Cable was more-a-less the standard for dovetail jigs. I haven't used one, but watched a demo of one at the Woodworking Show in T.O. As far as I know, when you make dovetails, you are making both adjoining pieces at the same time...one piece sits vertically in the jig and one horizontally with a stagger to it(half the pitch of one dovetail to the next). Both are cut at the same time, as would be done in the PC jig...I think that Keller jig you would make each piece separately by the looks of it, something to consider. As I said, haven't used one before, just an observation but I don't think you'd go wrong with the PC.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/27/09 10:18 AM

I use the Porter Cable 24” Omni Jig. I’ve had it for about six years, so it’s not their newest system. I’ve been interested in buying the new system. It looks pretty simple to set up and use. Mine is an exercise in re-learning every single time I use it. The new one looks much more user friendly. When I was looking for jigs, I almost bought the Leigh, and wish I would have got it instead. The Leigh makes adjustable dovetails and is fairly straight forward to set up and use. The P/C makes standard width pins as well as variable spaced pins if you buy the additional template, but it’s not quite as adjustable as the Leigh. I have the template (as well as the sliding dovetail template) and have used it a couple times. It does OK.

Out of all of them, I’d still stick with the new P/C omni or Leigh. Don’t screw around with those little cheap jigs though. They’re a waste of money.

http://www.leighjigs.com/home.php
http://www.deltaportercable.com/jigs/omni/
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/27/09 12:13 PM

Mark, I have the PC 4212 (I think). They change the digits per jig, but as for the unit, it does work very well. I would spring for the extra jig package (which I don't have) as the mini-jig would be nice for small work and price to buy separate is more expensive. But it is easy to use, and I am no dovetail king. Frankly, I successfully built one box on it and have not used it since. Not its fault, just have not need a dovetail. It is a very solid unit, not flex or slide. I had an old hard plastic design before can could never get a decent result from it. No experience with the others - but the Leighs with the movable fingers do look like a great idea, if the execution is effective.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/09 03:34 AM

 Quote:
I almost bought the Leigh

That reminds me of a store I could hang out in for hours. These guys design and manufacture their own tools as well as carrying a great sellection of quality tools from other manufacturers.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/09 08:50 AM

Fred, I haven't been to Lee Valley for years, indeed it is a store that one can get lost in...they have products in there for woodworkers, I've not seen anywhere else.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/09 12:32 PM

I buy a lot from Lee Valley. They have the best darn pencils made, plus a gazzilion other cool things. Warning: do not shop on line while drinking. Lee Valley and Amazon especially.
Posted by: Kruncher

Re: Got Wood? - 03/30/09 01:51 PM

For you craftsmen:

DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat metal bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest and flings your beer across the room, denting the freshly-painted project which you had carefully set in the corner where nothing could get to it.
WIRE WHEEL: Cleans paint off bolts and then throws them somewhere under the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprints and hard-earned calluses from fingers.
ELECTRIC HAND DRILL: Normally used for spinning pop rivets in their holes until you die of old age.
SKILL SAW: A portable cutting tool used to make studs too short.
PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads. Sometimes used in the creation of blood-blisters.
BELT SANDER: An electric sanding tool commonly used to convert minor touch-up jobs into major refinishing jobs.
HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board principle. It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable motion, and the more you attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your future becomes.
VISE-GRIPS: Generally used after pliers to completely round off bolt heads. If nothing else is available.
OXYACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for lighting various flammable objects in your shop on fire. Also handy for thawing pipes while also burning surrounding materials.
TABLE SAW: A large stationary power tool commonly used to launch wood projectiles for testing wall integrity.
SKILL SAW: A powerful electrical powered device designed to rapid cut wood into pieces that are too short. The name has nothing to do with those that own them.
PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used, as the name implies, to strip out Phillips screw heads.
STRAIGHT SCREWDRIVER: A tool for opening paint cans. Sometimes used to convert common slotted screws into non-removable screws and butchering your palms.
HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent to the object we are trying to hit.
UTILITY KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of cardboard cartons; works particularly well on contents such as seats, vinyl records, liquids in plastic bottles, collector magazines, refund checks, and rubber or plastic parts, clothes and fingers.
DANG-IT TOOL: Any handy tool that you grab and throw across the garage while yelling 'DANG-IT' at the top of your lungs. It is also, most often, the next tool that you will need.

Can't take credit for this; here's the source.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/30/09 02:35 PM

\:D
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/30/09 02:39 PM

That's a good one, there.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 03/31/09 12:21 AM

That was REALLY enjoyable! \:D
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/31/09 01:02 PM

If anyone wants to see the Playset'O'Death or the possessed tree-stump table I mentioned above, I added a couple pics to my album (at p. 3).
I got wood.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 03/31/09 01:22 PM

The stump table is very cool!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/31/09 01:31 PM

Charles, how did you attach the glass? I'm, stumped
Posted by: CV

Re: Got Wood? - 03/31/09 01:33 PM

Very nice.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 03/31/09 01:33 PM

friction?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/31/09 01:36 PM

The Deaf Monk is involved I'm sure...some kind of atomic forcefield, I think.
Posted by: DaveG

Re: Got Wood? - 03/31/09 02:38 PM

The table is awesome.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/31/09 03:44 PM

Thanks, I love the table, up close it is just a wild piece of nature. To get the glass in I just left the stump and the glass outside. Hurricane Katrina did the rest - a perfect slice! At least that is what I tell the kids.

Actually, it was a good bit of work getting it cut with a chainsaw and then hand planing it to near level and smooth as glass, with hand rubbed linseed oil. Then attached with a large lag bolt through the center of the glass. I had hoped to avoid the bolt, as the inside under the glass came out really beautiful. But kids kept almost flipping the glass off so I had to bolt it down and cover with the cut-off. Makes a nice optical curiosity. Then I build the banquet seating around the corner, and wallah! Seating for 6 or 7 in a nook to small for a 4-person table and chairs. Saved a good bit of $$ and got something unique that I really like - the Holy Grail of DIY, for me anyway.

Funny thing is, we used it so much that I got the green light to toss the dining room table and use that room as the HT. All the work paid off!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/31/09 04:21 PM

Really, really cool! \:\)
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/09 03:45 PM

Anyone else think the price of power tools is starting to creep up slowly. Don't know if it's the exchange rates or not, but I'm not seeing as many deals out there as 2-3 months ago(Amazon incl). Also, the $$ of TVs seems to be going up as well...in some cases 20+ % from what I saw yesterday.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/09 04:08 PM

The economy is picking up, well stabilizing a bit, old stock not bought as Christmas is gone, new products arriving, it had to happen.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/09 04:20 PM

They've realized that I'm done with purchases, so they can't make it up in volume anymore!

Of course, I'm still likely to get a dovetail jig and another router this weekend.

After that though, I'm quitting cold turkey. Yessiree! I'm done!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/09 04:21 PM

Hey... anyone up for a "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" photo-frenzy of our workshops?
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/09 05:03 PM

No peaking behind the curtain...
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/09 07:27 PM

If by "workshop" you mean a garage and minibarn full of tools that are endlessly moved around as needed (or as they get in the way of something else,) then no, I don't think anyone really wants to see that.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/09 11:16 AM

I will send a pic of my friends workshop. He is an incredibly gifted wood worker (hobbyist) and just built a stand-alone garage. Turns out, the front door was too small for the wife's car (strange how that happened) so he turn it into the best wood shop I have seen outside a professional shop. 12x6 cherry workbench, hardwood floors, vaulted ceilings, air and 110/240 at every location, and lots of room to move around from workstation to workstation.

Mine, half a garage with a "layered" approach to organization.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/09 11:42 AM

I too, am utilizing the layered approach, both in the garage where most of my metalworking tools are "neatly" piled around the perimeter on benches, and in my basement where the bulk of my woodworking tools(so far) are precisely placed in various places such as under the stairways, beside the furnace ect...

When I started my home reno's, my backyard, driveway, kitchen, family room ect became my workshop depending on the job I was working on. Eventually I'd really like to build a dedicated woodshop...and metalshop...and Home Theatre...and....
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/09 02:17 PM

I think Joyce and I are going to refinance what's left on our mortgage to take advantage of the lower rates. We've met with someone already and it looks like we can have the same monthly payment, but pay the loan off earlier and get a big bag of money besides. We'll use that towards renovations in the kitchen, bath, plumbing, electrical and asbestos removal (Murph will be so proud of me!) \:\)

We've got an 8x10 dirt-floored, walled-off root cellar in a corner of our basement that we've never made use of. As things are getting a bit tighter down there in the workshop, I think I'm going to clean it up, put in a cement floor and a dedicated 20 amp circuit. Then I can put the dust collector and compressor in there making the shop quieter and giving me more elbow room.

I have a Jet 1.5HP dust collector... the package with the 1-micron filter and remote control:



I've loved the remote; I just throw it in a pocket and turn the DC on from across the room when ready to work at each machine. I'm realizing it might be a problem for this application, though, as the Remote /Timer control unit has no "bypass". So, if I put the unit in a separate room where the remote and sensor can't see each other, I can't turn it on/off. Even a switch outside the room won't do any good, as I'll supply power to the unit, but not "trigger it on".

So, though I've never felt the need to do it in my HT, I might actually be looking for an infrared repeater for my workshop!!??!!

Has anyone here ever converted a dust collector to RF so they could use an MX-850 or a Harmony Remote in their shop??
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/09 03:42 PM

It's not super quality compared to more expensive solutions but for 50 bucks, you'd get an automated solution for your dust collector , two remotes (one credid card sized for your pocket) and a lamp module to turn on the operating room style lights when you need to sticth a finger back on after a table saw accident.

X10 Starter Kit.

Later you could add more modules for turning on your shop stereo, the shop coffee maker and annoy your wife by playing with the lights in her parts of the house.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/09 04:30 PM

Bear with me...I'm feeling less-than-bright today as if someone dimmed me remotely with an X10!

I don't see how this unit will work, as simply switching power to the DC will NOT turn it on. Plugging the DC in does not power it up, as there's no "hard" power button to leave in the "on" position. The X10 site isn't giving me info on how it works, just why it's so cool to have it.

I'm thinking I really need something more of an infrared repeater that I can hang (or fasten) in front of the DCs sensor, and be wired to a receiver outside of the room where my existing remote can point.

Am I making sense or do I need a nap? Zzzzzzzzzzz.........
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/09 04:44 PM

I just went to Jettools.com to see if there was some tech support. While there, I decided to check on my exact unit and it seems like all the models with remote control now use RF!!

I guess I'm not the only one to run into some issues!
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/09 04:46 PM

You need a nap, a nap and a cheap IR repeater. It ain't rocket science, as they say around here. If the remote is IR, the put a receiver in your big room, and the transmitting in line of sight of the dust collector, and open a beer. I have used a Recon (I think?) and a Terk Leapfrog. The Leapfrog cost about $50 but works much better than the $20 Recon. But, if you only need on/off, I would try the cheap one from somewhere with a good return policy. My problem was it was not overly accurate - channel 753 was 73, then 53, then 3, then I threw the remote, yatta, yatta, yatta.

In fact, I still have them and don't use them. I'm keeping the Frog for use to control the outdoor speakers (since my RF connection is broken to zone 2 now that I have a HT!). But if I can find the various plugs and eyes, I'll send you the old one. If it works, great, if not, trash it. PM me if you are interested. For the price you might prefer not to wait for met to find it! That layered thing can be tricky.

Also, look at Smarthouse (or smarthome?) .com. They have tons of options for IR repeating if you want to go upscale with it - nice wall plates, etc.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/09 04:56 PM

Thanks Charles! I very much appreciate the offer, but let me research it a bit more. I just read a post where a guy "removed" the remote section off the unit and just wired an extension and plug onto the now-exposed wires.

If I go that route, I can just have the electrician install a remote-operated switch on the circuit before the outlet. I think. \:\)

Again, thanks to both of you.... let me research it a bit more.

Maybe I should just install a window to the "room". Naaah, I wanted to build clamp racks over that wall! \:\(
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/09 05:06 PM

Mark, why not get one of those portable clamp racks with wheels? that way you can always put it in your way.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/09 05:28 PM

Exactly why not!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/09 06:58 PM

Smarthome has some ethernet controlled IR transmitters. I have one living out in my desk that I used in our old office to remote control an AC unit in the server closet.
Posted by: NDinUSA

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/09 07:24 PM

Mark,

Have you looked at the "Long Ranger" (Sounds like a porn movie) from Penn State Industries. It's an RF remote that I use on my DC. They have models for 110V or 220V. It works great. No need to point it to the DC to turn on/off. I only wish my DC was as big as yours \:\(

Gene
Posted by: richeydog

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/09 08:15 PM

 Originally Posted By: NDinUSA
Mark,

Have you looked at the "Long Ranger" (Sounds like a porn movie) from Penn State Industries. It's an RF remote that I use on my DC. They have models for 110V or 220V. It works great. No need to point it to the DC to turn on/off. I only wish my DC was as big as yours \:\(

Gene

Mark has a big DC?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/09 08:29 PM

Why, Yes.

Yes I do.

Gene- I'll check it out right now!
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/09 08:43 PM

Men with big DCs should have this book.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/09 08:46 PM

Have it? I ghost wrote it!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/09 09:36 PM

You still owe me $$ for being the subject matter.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/09 09:44 PM

But my photographer's fees outweighed (ahem) your modeling fees....
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/09 10:13 PM

You charge a lot, don't you Mark?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 06:30 AM

Enough that I need to expand my workshop feetage.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 07:09 AM

Sorry, I did not realize that the unit could not be left in an [on] state then just activated by applying power when I suggested an X-10 solution.

And yes, it is one of the most "insulting to our intelligence" web pages ever made, but sometimes it is a really cheap solution to a remote on/off issue, but not in this case. Although, if you bypass the IR receiver as per the post you read, it should work. At least until you lose the little keychain sized remote.

Actually, why don't you get the electrician to wire it up so that it automatically turns on anytime a circuit dedicated to a powertool is turned on. There could even be a timer that leaves it on for x seconds after you turn the powertool off.

YES, this would be the solution you need to avoid all that undue exercise that walking all that distance to flip a switch. ;\)


Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 07:16 AM

A guy in a woodworking forum has had luck with a "lawn and Garden" remote that will handle the load, but it's got the same problem in that it switches power on to my DC, but then the "soft" buttons or remote is still needed.

On another topic Murph, did you ever buy that router? I'm still going back and forth and back and forth.

I have a Triton 2 1/4HP mounted in a Rockler table, and would like to get a second router for handheld and dovetail jig use.

I have been playing around with this purchase for 6 months now, and keep changing my mind (the stupidity of THAT is pi**ing me off!)

I can't help but wonder:

Frequently I see sites (stores) that help narrow your choices down to some final items for consideration. Does anyone know of a site that does this with routers?

For instance, there are 244 models available (probably not far off, which is why the "finder" would be helpful):

The questions could be:
*Do you intend to mount this in a table? (Now down to 118 choices)
*Do you need a 1/2" or 1/4" collet? (Now down to 56 choices)
*Do you want variable speed? (Now down to 22 choices)
*Do you like D-Handle style? (Now down to 4 choices)

Yadda, yadda, yadda..... eventually finding your way down to a single, few, or "best match" choices.

Anyone know of anything like that for routers? Coincidentally, I know several other people that are in the same exact situation, and find the number of choices dizzying.

I'll probably get a PC 690LRVS. If I don't , I'm gonna build that freakin' website! Well, pay someone to build it for me at least! \:\)
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 07:23 AM

 Originally Posted By: Murph
Actually, why don't you get the electrician to wire it up so that it automatically turns on anytime a circuit dedicated to a powertool is turned on. There could even be a timer that leaves it on for x seconds after you turn the powertool off.


Yeah, honestly, if I remove it's "remote" capability and just wire a heavy 3-wire plug on it, all my options open up. That's probably what would need to happen. Then there are RF controlled "outlet" switches that would work.

The "auto on with tool on" thing won't work because I'll have tools on three different circuits when the electrician is done.

Your X10 solution still might be the best... with a little DC surgery on my part!

Of course, I think I posted above that JET now uses RF-remotes with their units. For all I know, I can just buy that as a part that will replace my infrared part perfectly?? (Probably $150!!)
\:\(
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 07:35 AM

Yes I did. I was playing with it last night as a matter of fact. I think I mentioned in my PM that my budget got shrunk so I had to scale back my list of higher end models. I ended up with this one.

Mastercraft Maximum Router

I normally shy away from Mastercraft tools but their Maximum lines are usually exceptionally good. It had reviews on several independent woodworking sights comparing it to much more expensive models like Porter Cable and Dewalt (Dewalt'scontractor grade line, not their new consumer line junk.)

Might not be the right choice for a daily user like yourself but I'm confident it will do my half dozen projects a year quiet nicely. Also with the 80 dollars off sale and my 79 dollars in Canadian Tire rebate coupons I've been hording for years, the price was too good to be true.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 08:17 AM

Daily user? HA! My router gets use once every few weeks... I don't get down there nearly as often as I'd like.

Sorry, I DO remember you telling me that you got that router. I guess I was just hoping you'd be the first patron of the website! \:\)
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 08:27 AM

Patron or developer?

Hey, I just noticed that my new router fits all of your criteria, including both choices in all the 'either or' questions. Well, except the D-handle but I fall in the not liking those category. I'm even happier now.

Now if my wife would just settle on a design for the plant stands she demands be my first project, I could actually get to work.

Second project will be a nice storage box for my rather large chess pieces made from sand. I wonder if it should be waterproof in case the tide comes in....


Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 08:56 AM

Hey, if you can be the developer, great! It ought to be a success for the number of people I know who are inumbdated with router choices! I keep going through a cycle of thinking THIS might be the one, but then it's not VS, or it's heavy, or something in the reviews throws a caution flag. It's driving me up the wall.

So, we start with the "narrowing down" feature. Then we start adding reviews. The site catches on so well that we have sponsers begging us for ad space and we bid it out month to month. Only 5 sponsers allowed at a time, but it's a minimum of $5K per month. They'll do it because WE'LL have the power! Mwaaaah-Haaaa-Haaa!

I _think_ I'm looking for a 1 3/4HP (light weight), 1/2" collet, variable speed router, possibly with a D-Handle. The D-Handle comes in because some of the choices that I otherwise like are getting mentions in reviews of "awkward to turn off/on", "dangerous switch position"... stuff like that. So I was thinking a D-Handle because of the trigger control.

That, and I saw Norm using one! \:\)
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 09:42 AM

Sorry, my web development days are 10 years behind me and it was just a few side projects for internal office stuff. Things have changed so much I wouldn't know where to begin. With your research into templates and such, you now have more expertise in modern web design than I do.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 10:17 AM

HA! Your second wrong assumption this morning.

My research into templates most cenetered around a few simple criteria: Does it maintain aspect ratio for photos, is there provision for video clips, and is it bright and shiny? \:\)
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 12:23 PM

Audiophile Dog can not hear you complain!


Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 12:26 PM

Man, I love that dog. \:\)
Posted by: CV

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 12:28 PM

That's not Audiophile Dog. That's Assassin Dog listening in on his target's activity.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 01:57 PM

Audiophile dog would not be using headphones that crappy.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 03:10 PM

Shhhh, he just threw them on as a ruse to avoid web development work.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 03:11 PM

Mark, Milwaukee makes a nice D-handle for a reasonable price...no, I don't own one, but when you get yours tell me if it's any good.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 04:25 PM

Yeah, I was looking at this one as one of the top contenders. It might get trumped though, as I received a sale notice from Rockler with the P-C for $99!!! Hell, I might buy two!

I've joined a NH woodworkers group and have a meeting tomorrow morning. On the way back, I'm hoping to pick up a dovetail jig on sale at Woodcraft and then go to Rockler for the router!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 05:01 PM

Mark, do you have a link for the PC, I couldn't find it on Rockler. Sounds like an excellent deal.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 05:40 PM

Sale Flyer
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 05:50 PM

I like my Bosch. It was hard to decide on, as you say, but I can't say a bad thing about it really. But I don't use a router enough to really endorse it. Good quality, sturdy, well thought out. Beyond that, it did not make me the craftsman I'm certain I truly am, so take some points off for that.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/03/09 05:52 PM

Thanks, I see there is a mail-in rebate though, probably only available to US customers I'll email Rockler or PC to find out.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 04/04/09 09:56 PM

I never have gotten used to D handle routers. I have a Bosch, but don't use it, ever. I always grab my little PC. http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-693LR...38896431&sr=1-6
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 04/04/09 11:21 PM

My day was full of win wood. Some people finish their basements. Today, I (mostly) finished the storage area under the stairs. It will likely be a useful (contained) play area for the kids. Stick-on vinyl floor tiles, a few 2x4s, some 1/2" plywood, plenty of nails, and some LED rope light has transformed the dark cave into an inviting space. \:\) I still need to put up 1/4-round trim to finish it off, but it's good enough for the kids to use in the meantime.

I have some pictures on the camera that I can post...
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 04/04/09 11:22 PM

Sounds like a nice little project.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/05/09 09:48 AM

 Originally Posted By: pmbuko
I have some pictures on the camera that I can post...


This is the Axiom forum. You're not really waiting to be asked, are you? \:\)
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/05/09 10:18 AM

 Originally Posted By: mdrew
I never have gotten used to D handle routers. I have a Bosch, but don't use it, ever. I always grab my little PC.


The D-Handle of your router is exactly what I got yesterday: Porter Cable 691. I like the D-Handle for the trigger control, so I can start it with two hands on it instead of one hand looking for a switch up top. Because it's the same 690 motor as your kit, it's pretty light (which is what I wanted, as I have the Triton in the router table).
My first router was a Skil plunge model that had a sealed rocker switch right on the handle. After using that, I could never figure out why manufacturers put the switch up top, instead of someplace you could actually reach while holding on to it the way it was designed to be held. I mean it's not THAT big a deal and tomayto - tomahto and all that! \:\)

I was on my way from a woodworker's meeting to a Woodcraft to get the dovetail jig on sale...and then was going to go to a Rockler to get the PC690 on sale. I asked at the Woodcraft store if they price-match, but they didn't have a 690 in stock anyway. But then she said she'd take $50 off the D-Handle version to get the price pretty close. As I said, I liked the idea of the D-Handle, and it saved me a 1-hour ride each way to Rockler, so....

At the meeting, the guy was demoing dovetails for drawers and drawer slides... perfect timing for me! \:\) GREAT organization for $30/year. I get discounts all over the place and they even have a full color magazine that they publish 4X a year. The Guild of New Hampshire Woodworkers has over 500 members... evidently one of the largest woodworker's groups out there! I'm psyched!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/05/09 02:29 PM

Congrats on the PC, Mark. I too, can't understand why manufacturers don't put the switches in a more convenient/safer location on their routers, something I like about the D-handles.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/05/09 03:12 PM

Silly, silly me. I'm on the Axiom forums, yet didn't post a pic. I swear, if my head weren't attached.....

Since these PC Dovetail Jigs don't have dust collector options, I think I'll build a little "clampable" platform for it that will hold the red dust collector thingamabob.

I got the dovetail jig with the extra template for miniature through and half-blind dovetails and miniature box joints 'cuz I might try some small-box projects for kicks...




Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/05/09 05:13 PM


Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Got Wood? - 04/05/09 05:20 PM

Good to see your buying into my family name Mark. \:\)
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/05/09 05:27 PM

I thought your family name was "Axiom", Randy?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/05/09 05:38 PM

Randy Cable? I had no idea...

Sounds like what you get when electrons excite the wire in Monster Cables...
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 04/05/09 05:39 PM

Good idea with the small jig template, really expands the projects you can use dovetails on.

Enjoy the sawdust.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/05/09 05:58 PM

Mark's gonna dovetail his front door to the frame, no need for security devices.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 05/02/09 09:38 AM

I had been keeping my eye on the pricing for this DeWalt stand to use for my Ridgid Planer:


When I first saw it on Amazon, it was something like $120 for eight weeks while I kept prioritizing other things. Then it jumped to ~$180 where it has been for months... so I planned on building one. It's come down a bit lately...

Yesterday, I saw and bought this at Sam's Club for $165 instead:



Mee Likey! \:\)

For what I would have to pay for the wood, castors and draw slides, it would have cost me the same in the end. I might even buy two more, putting them back to back with a homebuilt "bridge" top to make an assembly bench.

I've been keeping my eye out for tool stands/carts, etc. for awhile, and this is the best deal I've come across by far. The reviews on the Sam's Club site are excellent; I plan on assembling this today and will see for myself. I'll post back if anyone is interested. It sometimes seems like there's always a need in workshops for tool stands / rolling carts so I thought someone here might be interested...

I'm spending the day re-organizing my workshop...it's so out of control right now I can't even find a horizontal surface to work on anything!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 05/02/09 10:03 AM

Mee likey too!

Speaking of Amazon, I see some of their prices changing on a daily basis, sometimes as much as 25-40% over night, then back and forth(?).
I had my eye on the Bostitch 15 gauge nailer...a while back I could have picked one up for around $100 US, these days it's North of $150
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 05/02/09 10:12 AM

I have about 100 items in my Amazon basket.... seriously. I had always made good use of my wishlist as a reminder of a CD that someone recommended or a tool that was "best reviewed" that I know I'll be looking for someday. But I've emptied my wishlist into the "save for later" part of my shopping basket.

When doing this, everytime you go into your basket it shows you what prices have risen or been lowered on the items. It gives me the opportunity to "jump" if there's a good price decrease. I check daily! \:\)
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 05/02/09 12:18 PM

Oh great, just what I need - another clever internet shopping tool.

I meant the Amazon thing, Mark, not you.
Posted by: CV

Re: Got Wood? - 05/02/09 04:03 PM

 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
When doing this, everytime you go into your basket it shows you what prices have risen or been lowered on the items. It gives me the opportunity to "jump" if there's a good price decrease. I check daily! \:\)


I do this, too, but not for anything practical.

But yeah, I like how it's a good way to both save and spend money simultaneously.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 05/02/09 04:41 PM

That cart is really, really nice. It went together very easily...lots of screws but it's designed with threaded inserts so there aren't nuts to deal with {INSERT JOKE HERE}.

Every piece fit together accurately and obviously. Every part had a sticker with a clear, simple part #, which way is up and which way is the front. Instructions and illustrations were in clear English. It was absolutely the best-designed assembly I've ever dealt with.

I'm not joking here: I'm going to make it a point to write the manufacturer to give them a pat on the back for doing it SO right and I'm going to write a review on Samsclub.com (I've never bothered writing a review though I live on Amazon).

Further, I'm going to buy four more of these and use them as a base for a new workbench/assembly table.

No kidding, I can't believe how good these are, and at the price, they're a steal!
Posted by: CV

Re: Got Wood? - 05/02/09 04:43 PM

I'll have to tell my dad about it.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 05/04/09 08:21 AM

Shouldn't you be building your own tables???
[[insert silly, grinning emote of choice here:]
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 05/04/09 08:46 AM

Believe me, I'm aware of how much more charm it would have if I built the cabinets myself with Maple-front drawers and dovetail joints, etc...

But the reality is, I have a "to-do" and "to-build" list that's 50 items long. I'm not looking for projects to build even now, and when the whole refinanced mortgage "rebuild the kitchen, rebuild the bathroom, rebuild the basement, redo the whole house plumbing, redo electric work, redo the landscaping, redo the kitchen floor, redo yadda, redo yadda" happens, I'm going to be inundated to keep up with contractors.

So yes, I would love the charm of "do it myself", but I'm too much of a realist. I could get four of these cabinets assembled in 5 hours and be done with it....except for building a thick Maple top! \:\)
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 05/04/09 08:47 AM

And, by the way, aren't you supposed to be posting photos of some plant stands?
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 05/04/09 10:53 AM

True, but the last two weekends were filled with Jeep work and next weekend looks like it will be filled with lawn and yard work. Of course, now that my big workbench is no longer a big pile of parts, I could probably do a little here and there on some evenings.
Posted by: HAY

Re: Got Wood? - 07/14/09 11:44 PM

One of 3 wood working projects I've every done.



I had some hardwood flooring pieces with flaws that I put to use after using a fan box as a center stand for a year or so.

It's actually solid and well balanced. It doesn't compliment the HG Cherry much but I'm not sure if I want to stain or paint it....as it doesn't distract either and the planks are pre-finished already.

I've also been thinking of trimming the top piece so the VP150 is exactly the same length or slightly longer...
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 07/15/09 08:14 AM

Vary nice!!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 07/15/09 08:17 AM

Yeah, nice job!

I'd miss the cooling center fan, though, and I bet it vortexed the center channel information straight out to the listener!
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 07/15/09 09:54 AM

That's why he has a square room! Mark has a fear or vortexes.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 07/15/09 10:03 AM

Actually, I have a vortex-shaped room because I'm afraid of squares.

You were close though!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 07/18/09 04:32 PM

Any fans here of pocket hole joinery?

Yesterday and today, I've been working on a project that my wife has wanted done for 17 years...since we bought the house. Our washer and dryer are in the basement, but the dryer was never vented outside. I had it going into a bucket with holes around the top and a few inches of water on the bottom. The problem with venting it outside is that I didn't want to lose the window at that spot.

So, I took out the current window and built a "box" to hold the vent hose that corresponded to the levels and contours of the deep window (The foundation is brick). The box takes up the left third of the window opening, and I built a new window for the right two-thirds of the opening. I had never built a window before.



I planed some wood down to about 1/4" and made T-shaped splines that fit in the groove for the glass, but decided the frame would be stronger with pocket hole screws. I had been doing some pocket-hole stuff for a few months now, but this time I plugged the holes. I have to say, this frame is really, really strong and with the plugs in the pocket holes, they're hardly visible. (The window is going to be painted white anyway).



I'm finding that I want to use pocket holes more and more because of their strength and simplicity, but seeing how well they plug, I might even start using them in visible areas with contrasting plugs ( Walnut plugs in Maple, for instance ).

It feels awesome to get a project done that's been on my list for 17 years!!!

So, any other pocket hole fans?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 07/18/09 04:34 PM

The only real project I've ever done used pocket hole joinery for most of the carcass. Since it's all internal, however, I didn't use plugs. It's a pretty awesome technique, and I love that the set I used had those nifty square head screws.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 07/18/09 04:59 PM

I have not used that method. Have not paid off the saw-dust gods with my biscuit joiner yet, so I'll have to put it at the back end of the list of tools to buy. Looks great. Nice work.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 07/20/09 09:43 AM

Well, first I was simply going to make fun of this statement...
...."but this time I plugged the holes"....

But then I got curious to know if you made yourself a jig for that or used a bought one. If you made it yourself, lets see it!

I'll stick with my serious question but I'm filing your quote away for future reference.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 07/20/09 10:26 AM

Naaaaah, didn't make it myself. I bought a Kreg Jig. I like it a lot and am using it more and more!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 08/05/09 11:19 AM

I'm looking at getting a 2 1/4 hp router kit with both bases(fixed and plunge), you guys have any suggestions? I was leaning towards either the Milwaukee 2 1/4 fixed/plunge kit(5616-24) or the Bosch 1617 EVSPK "BP"(BP=Bonus Pack; ie edge guide). My only concern about the Bosch is that there are some negative comments about the switch malfunctioning, I also looked at the Triton 2 1/4 plunge kit but have read that there are some quality control issues with it, although it has many excellent and innovative features on it.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 08/06/09 02:57 PM

Hey Adrian:
I liked both the Bosch and Milwaukee based on what I saw in stores and read in reviews. I've never used either, so I don't have firsthand experience.

I have the Triton 2 1/4hp mounted in my router table and like it. It's a very good value if they still make it available in the kit with a bunch of accessories for a little over $200 US. There are some things that take a little getting used to, such as the power switch "cover plate", but as you said, there's some innovative features. I've never used it handheld...only in the table. I like it enough that I told myself I'd get the 3 1/4hp version for the table if I ever wanted something bigger in there.

BTW, I'm loving that PC D-handle 1 3/4hp router. To be able to start it / stop it with a trigger while both hands are on it is great. I also like the D-handle itself as opposed to holding a couple of knobs.

D-handle revolution!!!!
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 08/06/09 03:24 PM

 Quote:
D-handle cup revolution!!!!

Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 08/06/09 03:50 PM

I have the Bosch and love it. The power switch is not well thought out but versitle machine overall and on sale is a good deal.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 08/06/09 03:53 PM

Mark, do you have any issues with the build quality of the Triton? For the record, I only saw a couple of user reviews that complained about it and to be fair, there were some quality issues on the Milwaukee's, Dewalt's and Bosch as well. I'm somewhat leary about Bosch electrics, I've heard a disproportionate number of complaints about their motors crapping out in some of their tools(esp drills). I can get the Triton for under $200 CN which is pretty good considering the features and extras they supply with the kit, though it is also a dedicated plunger. Speaking of D-handles, Dewalt has a kit for the 2 1/4hp DW618 that gives you all 3 bases...plunge, fixed and D-handle which might be worth looking at. I too, am interested in the D-handle because of the switch location and I believe the unit would be easier to control in many situations.

Mark, your PC is a 1 3/4hp is it not? how do you find the power vs your 2 1/4 triton. I've noticed that some 2 1/4hp routers by companies such as Hitachi are only 11 amps where some of the others are 12-13 amps. Also, Milwaukee's 1 3/4 is rated at 11 amps, same as the Hitachi 2 1/4!!

Amazon $$ on the Milwaukee (1 3/4hp)dropped today....hmmmmm
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 08/06/09 03:54 PM

Hi Charles, did you get the plunge/fixed kit on your Bosch?
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 08/06/09 04:19 PM

Yep. Very quiet. Don't use as much as I would like, but very happy with quality of motor and number of third party acc avail.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 08/06/09 04:29 PM

The Bosch 1617EVSPK with both bases and bonus pack is $199 on Amazon at the moment.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 08/06/09 04:36 PM

I specifically wanted the 1 3/4HP PC for handheld use, while the Triton is specifically for table use. Because of that, I've never really done a direct comparison between the two. The bigger bits have been used in the table / Triton only. While the smaller / simpler bits are used in both, the smaller bits don't do much to test the routers' capabilities either for me to compare.

I haven't had any issues at all with the Triton, but in all fairness, when it only sits in the table and only gets turned on once every few weeks, I haven't exactly pushed its' limits either.

When I was shopping for the Triton, though, I wasn't seeing anything particularly negative about the router... (though Amazon reviews show that every router has some detractors).
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 08/06/09 04:54 PM

Many of the "reviews" on Amazon should be taken with a grain of salt no doubt.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 08/09/09 03:37 PM

I was seriously wanting the Milwaukee 5616-24 except one of the reviewers questioned the repeatability of the plunger, specifically that the motor wasn't clamped too well and was moving under load when plunging. I'm wondering if the cutter was actually pulling out of the collet on him: saw this problem when I used to work in the machine shop alot, if you weren't using a side lock on the tool holders(ie using a collet instead). The Bosch is a good deal and has a lot of extras with it, but why are they only offering a 1 yr warranty? what's wid dat? everyone else is 3-5 yrs.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 08/11/09 07:38 PM

So which on did you get? And don't you DARE say "none yet"!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 08/11/09 10:54 PM

I'm getting the Bosch, with one minor catch...it's getting delivered to my Aunt in Washington, so it'll be a while before I actually receive it. Hopefully the 1 yr warranty won't be a problem, I still don't know why such a highly rated router would have such crappy coverage.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 08/12/09 08:41 AM

You went with the Bosch? Seriously? ::runs away snickering::








No, seriously, I think it's a good choice!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 08/12/09 09:17 AM








\:\)
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 08/14/09 01:18 PM

(Did I tell him about the motor failure on my Bosch after 12 hrs of use, or did I forget? Oh well, no matter at this point ...)










;\)
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 08/14/09 01:42 PM

I could swear your avatar was using his middle finger there, Charles.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 08/14/09 01:50 PM

In his mind, it is.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 08/14/09 02:02 PM

\:\/
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 08/14/09 11:45 PM

I did contact Bosch and ask them about the switch failures that they had on the 1617and they said it was due to sawdust build-up in the switch because it wasn't sealed, and they changed to a sealed design in June of 2005. As long as mine wasn't sitting in a warehouse for 4 yrs, I'm sure I must be getting one with a new switch.
Posted by: RickF

Re: Got Wood? - 08/15/09 08:45 AM

Nothing to add here.

I just wanted to see this thread title 'Got Wood' next to Jack's 'A Thing of Beauty' thread. ;\)

\:D
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 08/15/09 08:47 AM

LOL....

Funny, this Vero Beach stranger is....
Posted by: RickF

Re: Got Wood? - 08/15/09 08:51 AM

Mornin' Mark!

Nobody wanted to do anything today due to a tropical wave so this Vero resident is off today.

\:\)
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 08/15/09 10:03 AM

Is Mornin' Mark like mornin' wood?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 08/15/09 10:26 AM

In the sense that I'm a d**k, yes.
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: Got Wood? - 08/15/09 11:04 AM

That probably mean you have adequate steel bracing?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 08/15/09 12:26 PM

No, it's all about squirting glue.







I think we'd better get back to talking about woodworking now!!!
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: Got Wood? - 08/15/09 12:27 PM

Yes. A subject where you're very hands on...
Posted by: CV

Re: Got Wood? - 08/15/09 12:28 PM

 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
No, it's all about squirting glue.


They're coming out of the woodwork now.

What was the second thing you said?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 08/15/09 12:39 PM

Now you've misspelled the second word of your post!

I REALLY need to walk away from this!

My problem is that I (finally!) watched The 40 Year Old Virgin last night, so my head (!) is in (!) that kind of humor!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 08/15/09 12:50 PM

 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson


I REALLY need to walk away from this!
It's difficult to walk with hardwood.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 08/17/09 05:31 PM

Thought I'd pass this one along, Princess Auto has these Dewalt Framing Nailers on sale right now, web only, for $128.88 CN(about $117 US)!! The sale just began today AFAIK...don't know if it's a promo from Dewalt or not, but it's a while supplies last thing. I just ordered two.

Might be ideal for you guys building a dedicated HT! \:\)
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 08/20/09 02:26 PM

KRAP! just got an email from Princess Auto, basically "due to high and unexpected demand....yadda...yadda...we had to cancel your order. How many nailers did they have, I ordered the day they went on sale. F%ckink Krap!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 08/20/09 02:29 PM

Well, I ordered three and I was told I got the last ones.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 08/20/09 02:33 PM

(one for each nailer).
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 08/21/09 05:55 PM

If anyone knows of some good deals (ie clearance)on any of the brand name router bits like Freud, Porter Cable ect, please post or let me know if you see anything decent.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 08/21/09 06:01 PM

If I see them first, I'm going to buy three of each till their gone.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 08/21/09 06:20 PM

May you be stricken with Bukolitis in the groinal region. \:o
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 08/21/09 10:23 PM

what about my gone? Nobody ever thinks about my gone. *pout*
Posted by: Zimm

New Equip table? - 08/28/09 11:49 AM

Well, I have not done much wood work lately, so I'll submit this embarrassingly simply bit of wood work I did this week just to feel like part of the group. The long version - I built two rectangles from an old bed frame, filled it with old law books and put a $40 piece of scrap black granite on top and named it "table". I'm not happy with it, and I expect I'll go back to the floor setup I had before, but the lack of contributions got to me, so here it be:



Posted by: Adrian

Re: New Equip table? - 08/28/09 09:50 PM

That's kewell, Charles. Where on earth do find a 'scrap piece of granite', the books aren't hiding an epitaph by any chance are they?
Posted by: Zimm

Re: New Equip table? - 08/29/09 02:50 PM

Big sign in front of the granite store said remnant sale, so I stopped by. I paid $40 for that large (heavy!) slab of beautiful polished black granite (with rough edges that I kinda like, kinda don't). I really just wanted some 18x18 pieces to make floor stands for the components, but who can pass up a $40 granite table (with some light wood work added).

I had to restrain myself as they had several some damn fine "scraps" that were actually fully finished (bull nose at all edges) 36x96 table tops for $400. All kinds of deals if you can manage the stuff. Really heavy and hard to handle - even this "little" piece. Plus the diamond blades needed to cut the stuff gets expensive to just play with.

Check locally, my might be shocked what you find and use without modification.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: New Equip table? - 10/03/09 02:18 PM

Yes, I bought a Steel City Mortiser last weekend as there was a pretty good sale at a local Woodcraft and I got a further discount from my Woodworker's association. When I get a few small projects done in the shop, I'm going to attempt my first real piece of furniture, and that was the perfect excuse to buy a new tool! \:\) I also picked up a heap of Maple and Curly Maple for the little table with drawer I'll make for the living room. Maybe I'll document some points in that project once I get into it... It's cool to just be able to buy cheaper rough wood and joint and plane it myself.


Posted by: Adrian

Re: New Equip table? - 10/03/09 02:48 PM

Mark's a Mortisian.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Got Wood? - 10/03/09 02:53 PM

I forgot to mention that I bought the last one...just in case you wanted one Adrian!

Sort of a pre-emptive purchase....
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 10/03/09 03:12 PM

Well, I talked to the guy and he said he only had "1" defective unit left, so I passed. ;\)
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 10/03/09 03:36 PM

LOL... Touché! \:\)
Posted by: Murph

Re: New Equip table? - 10/05/09 09:56 AM

 Originally Posted By: Adrian
Mark's a Mortisian.


I hear they leave cryptic symbols in wooden pyramids built into all their work.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: New Equip table? - 10/05/09 10:15 AM

That reminds me... if I'm going to build a piece of furniture, now I have to buy one of the little name-imprinting-burning thingies... Just to confuse people, I'll use my name but with Charles' personal logo....
Posted by: Zimm

Re: New Equip table? - 10/05/09 11:36 AM

I see the toy, now where is the furniture?????? Make some sawdust man!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: New Equip table? - 10/05/09 11:46 AM

I have a couple of small projects I have to knock out first.

One, in particular, which if not done first will have me getting nasty IMs here!
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: New Equip table? - 10/05/09 11:58 AM

All these new tools are probably just raising everyone's expectations of your craftsmanship.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: New Equip table? - 10/05/09 12:02 PM

Crap.

You're probably right.

For myself, too. So I just sold everything but a hammer with a broken handle, a screwdriver that's messed up from opening paint cans, and a 6' tape measure from a dollar store.

NO MORE PRESSURE!
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: New Equip table? - 10/05/09 12:06 PM

Well, you still have your teeth.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: New Equip table? - 10/05/09 12:08 PM

Owwww....Owwww...OWWWW!

Not now!

Now stop posting, so I CAN STOP!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: New Equip table? - 10/05/09 04:38 PM

A "morteether"?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: New Equip table? - 10/22/09 04:59 PM

Norm Abram Closes 'Yankee Workshop'
Posted by: Adrian

Re: New Equip table? - 10/22/09 05:16 PM

That's too bad. Oh well, I guess the networks will replace it with another awesome reality show.


OUCH!!.....STOP HITTING ME WITH THE BESSEY CLAMPS< MARK!! AAAAAAAAHHHHH!!
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: New Equip table? - 10/22/09 05:34 PM

Can I have it?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: New Equip table? - 10/22/09 06:03 PM

Let him have it, Mark!!! heh, heh!!
Posted by: bridgman

Re: New Equip table? - 10/31/09 11:47 PM

 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
So I just sold everything but a hammer with a broken handle, a screwdriver that's messed up from opening paint cans, and a 6' tape measure from a dollar store.


That must be tough. If it helps, you can use my workbench :


Posted by: pmbuko

Re: New Equip table? - 11/01/09 12:09 AM

Nice! If you want to use it in the winter, you can build a fire in it to keep warm. \:\)
Posted by: bridgman

Re: New Equip table? - 11/01/09 12:40 AM

Yeah, all it needs is a granite top and a shoulder vise and I'm set.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: New Equip table? - 11/01/09 05:45 PM

OK, that's one project out of the way (cannibalizing the sorry-looking structure on the right to make firewood racks). I guess the next project should really be a workbench.

My favorite wood so far is "pressure treated", but if you look carefully in the middle of the third rack of firewood you should be able to see the curly maple ;\)


Posted by: Adrian

Re: New Equip table? - 11/01/09 06:03 PM

Phhhttt! anyone can clearly see, that is a piece of birdseye maple. Nice try bridg! \:D
Posted by: michael_d

Re: New Equip table? - 11/26/09 11:34 AM

Forrest table saw blades?

I’m told to generate a list for Santa every year, as no one can figure out what to get me. It’s time for a new table saw blade. I’ve always wondered just how well Forrest blades perform, but never bought one. When I need a blade, I need a blade and usually get whatever Freud blade I can find at one of the box stores. If I am gong to do a lot of ripping, I’ll swap out my 80 tooth blade and throw in a ripping blade but usually, I have the 80 toother in the saw. It looks as if Forrest has three different blades out now. They only had the original out last time I looked.

So does anyone have experience with Forrest blades?

I think I’m going to put a new Incra miter gauge on my list too. I have the original and I see they now have one that allows you to miter for and aft. That’s one thing that my Incra has always bothered me with – can only miter one direction. If anyone has the new Incra, let me know what you think about that as well please.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: New Equip table? - 11/26/09 05:33 PM

Can't comment on the Forrest Blades as I've only used 12" Freud(imo very good), 12"Craftsman(not bad), 10"Ridgid(very good) and 7 1/4 Dewalt(so-so) blades on my various saws. However, have a good look at the carbides on any saw blade...it should be thick for strength and for resharpening and should be of a good micro grain quality as well as being consistant all around the saw blade. By this, I mean that a lot of the cheaper blades have poorly brazed, thinner or inconsistant carbide thickness as well as an inconsistant grind as you compare tooth to tooth.

Forrest has been around for a long time so I'm sure they make a quality product and made in the US as I understand.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: New Equip table? - 11/26/09 06:16 PM

I use Forrest Woodworker II full-kerf blade right now; I had a Forrest WW II thin kerf blade previously. Both have been great in quality of cut and convenience of not having to swap blades back and forth.

I've never used a Freud Fusion before, but have heard good things about it as well. Personally, I like the way the Forrests can be returned to the manufacturer for resharpening.

I can respond to the Incra questions as well, but I'll have to get home first!
Posted by: michael_d

Re: New Equip table? - 11/26/09 07:15 PM

Cool, thanks. I'm also looking at the Incra fence system for my Rigid contractor saw. I just can't fit a cabinet saw in my garage, so I'm looking at getting a better fence for it and the Inra looks pretty slick....

While I'm at it, how about Tenoning jigs? I'm tired of doing them over my dado blade and am looking at the Delta and Jet models. I'd prefer to stick with a table saw jig verses router.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: New Equip table? - 11/27/09 02:11 AM

Mike, please let me(us)know how that fence works, I have the same saw as you \:\)

That is one nice looking fence.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: New Equip table? - 12/01/09 08:15 PM

Dangit..... Now I'm looking at table saws. Grizzley has some killer deals right now. Must resist.... must resist....
Posted by: michael_d

Re: New Equip table? - 12/22/09 04:50 PM

 Originally Posted By: jakewash
Mike, please let me(us)know how that fence works, I have the same saw as you \:\)

That is one nice looking fence.


Update:

So as I indicated before, when I started looking at the Incra TS fence, I started looking at table saws too. I figured that if I was going to sacrifice floor space to accommodate the Incra, I might as well upgrade to a better saw. (nothing wrong with the Rigid, but it does have its limitations). Grizzly has a 25% off sale on a 3 HP cabinet saw and after they ship it to me, the cost was going to be around $1200. I typically do not buy used machines / tools, as I have no idea how well the owner treated them (and I am very anal when it comes to taking care of my tools), so I usually buy new. I figured I might as well see what’s on Craig’s list. Someone had a Delta Unisaw listed for a grand, very little use with a Rockwell Unifence. I took a drive and checked it out. It was bought new, never used at an auction by the seller. He used it one day, then put it up in his loft where it’s sat since 2002. It still had the motor shipping bracket installed and the plastic on the name plate. I couldn’t walk away from it…. So I was in the garage with my dial indicators setting up the table and figuring out how to build some fill tables when the UPS guy showed up with some peculiar looking boxes from Amazon for my girlfriend. One was damaged, so I did the only thing a caring boyfriend would do and made sure that her stuff wasn’t damaged. First thing I saw was Incra on the boxes……!! I let her know that if that was my Christmas present, and it was my fence, I wouldn’t mind if she gave it to me now, verses Christmas day. Long story a bit longer, I finished installing the Incra on my new, used Unisaw and built filler tables last weekend. I spent a couple hours playing with the fence and absolutely love it! The saw is a pleasure to use to, but the fence is incredible. If you’ve been seriously looking at one, don’t hesitate and buy it. Amazon has it on sale right now for $340 or thereabouts. The only negative I can think of now is it does take up a lot of room to the right of the saw. When the fence is to the right for wide rips, the T-fence sticks out into the air about 30”. If you can work with that, the only other ‘negative’ I can come up with is it is somewhat of a pain to store if you need to pull it off the saw. I’m not sure what I’m going to do about that yet. Probably make a hanger to hang it on a wall when not in use.

Now I’m pining over the Incra fence and lift for my router table…….
Posted by: jakewash

Re: New Equip table? - 12/22/09 06:06 PM

Lucky you, Christmas arriving early and all. I may jhave to add one to my list of 'things to buy' when I move into the new house.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 01/26/10 01:48 PM

A small project but I took forever to finally get building this prototype but it is finally done. It is a pine version of a plantstand that I want to make in hardwood now that I know it works. I didn't have a design to go by, just a picture in my head of a picture I once saw in a magazine so I built the first one out of cheaper pine rather than waste some nice hardwood.

The top has 4 section "sandbox" if you will. The idea is that you fill the squares under the glass with sand and add seashells, starfish or whatever.



One part I'm having trouble with is joining the dividers. I temporarily tacked these in but I suck at carving odd shapes where they join in the middle. Any suggestions for my HW version to improve the join there, other than 'take my time'?


Posted by: Potatohead

Re: Got Wood? - 01/26/10 02:35 PM

^glue and wood filler \:D
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 01/26/10 02:39 PM

Here's my genius answer: Use a router on a solid piece of wood. \:\)

Start with a square of wood of the right dimensions and thickness.
Mark the dividers, choose a router bit with the desired profile, and then route around those divider lines.

Ta da! No joining necessary.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 01/26/10 02:45 PM

Filler, Ha! Actually, I already did that on the above but the picture was from before.

Peter, are you suggesting that I route the divider as one solid cross out of a large piece of wood? Hmmm, that would make it look awesome. It would take some very imaginative clamping near the end though so as not to accidentaly break it while routing. Great concept though, I might try it just for the challenge if nothing else.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 01/26/10 02:46 PM

Or, if cheaper is needed for hardwood, use 4 arms with V cut at ends to form center of the +. If not load bearing, it should hold with glue.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 01/26/10 02:51 PM

Then if you're feeling extra dextrous, chisel out the radiused corners...
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 01/26/10 02:53 PM

Seems like Peter's idea might be a bit impractical--and expensive, for a piece of hardwood of the right dimensions.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 01/26/10 02:55 PM

I assume that you want the dividers to have that curve to their tops? Otherwise it would be quite simple... Just chisel out slots the width of the opposing piece in the bottom and top of the respective pieces. You might even be able to do that with the curved dividers.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 01/26/10 02:59 PM

yes, they need some kind of curve on the tops or they look too 'stickish' in there.

Yes, a large block of hardwood would be expensive, unless I had a use for the resulting four smaller squares. I find I always find a use for my scraps eventually.

V cuts could work.

I admit suckage at hand carving or chiseling.

You guys are just full of great ideas, as always.

Edit:
Err Wait. Peter, I think I now understand that you meant that the solid piece would actually be the entire top piece of wood. Thus not using 4 pieces for the outer frame.

That was actually my first design choice for the hardwood version but I always run into trouble routing inside edges in big pieces of joined pine so I did it this way for the beta. I think I still envisioned having to add dividers after routing out the big center square but I certainly could do it in 4 smaller sections.

It would mean rounded outer corners where the glass sits but i gues that could be corrected afterwards. Except I'm back to my suckage at hand chiseling again.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 01/26/10 04:55 PM

Charles Idea is a good one, IMO. 4 pieces cut with a 'V' at one end to join in the centre. Another alternative might be to make a cross out of square stock with a dado cut into each piece where they join, then after they are secured as one piece, router the inside edges to make it purdy. If you don't mind spending the coin, get a wainscotting bit to make a perfect join...probably not practical unless you have some other projects to use the bit on. Other than that, a tube of caulk for $1.99, can hide a whole lot!
Posted by: NDinUSA

Re: Got Wood? - 01/26/10 08:08 PM

Cool table! If you have a router table you could use these.

http://www.toolstoday.com/c-354-window-sash-assembly-router-bits.aspx
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 01/26/10 09:46 PM

I'd probable keep them square, cut dado's for the side pieces to slide into. Then route the edge profile up to the point where they intersect on a router table. You can then just use a sharp chisel to profile the intersection.

Nice table by the way. Looks great.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 01/27/10 05:55 AM

Hey Murph, I don't have any helpful suggestions (what else is new?) but I wanted to say that the stand looks awesome! Really, really, nice job!
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Got Wood? - 01/27/10 07:06 AM

I thnk this is what Zimm is suggesting. I'm not a woodworker, but unless this is too difficult or not feasible, IMHO I think mitering the ends of all four pieces would look good, particularly with the curved top edge. It would also echo the mitered corners of the table top.

P.S. That table is really nice.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/10/10 06:26 AM

[old man voice]This country is going to hell in a handbasket![/old man voice]

Did you not know it wasn't a SawStop saw when you bought it? Then WTF?
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/10/10 09:26 AM

As one of the evil ilk of lawyer/inventors I'd be very interested to know the real details of the case. Maybe that plaintiff just hit the jury lotto because you seldom hear of a jury doing something like that. Sometimes you get anti-big business, or certain prejudices that can trigger outlandish rewards, but wood working is not in that realm. You get as many anti-plaintiff mindsets as "hand out the money" mindsets, and it take a majority (if not unanimity) to get the verdict.

Now, a very common lecture in any business course or early law class is the Ford Pinto case - i.e., saving $0.10 per car because that total was higher than the expected payout to the dead and injured of the badly designed part. That kind of documentation will trigger a pissed-off jury to penalize you.

Yes, it is jury nullification to some extent. At the same time, it is a way for society to bring the laws immediately up to the accepted social morals of that little area - one district court. It will either stop there or spread to state legislatures.

I'm too lazy to go see what actually happened here, but I doubt this is a radical shift in America's trip to hell on the wings of a hand-basket. Really, my laziness in researching this rant is more indicative of that fall.

Finally, Mark it is sad to see someone of your potential so addicted to their hobby that they have to read a string of other people's comments - none of which are journalist or have a TV show...how can you trust them – just to get their sawdust high. Get better man.

Oh, and i'm thinking of buying some of those Axiom computer speakers, anybody tried those. I hear they are bright and will cause my McIntosh Amp to trip b/c they are .005 ohms. Guide me.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/10/10 09:49 AM

I never even read the comments below the article...
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/10/10 09:50 AM

Anyone else notice that all the new table saws seemed to be equipped with a riving knife.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/10/10 09:51 AM

That's by law now....

From that article: "In 2009, Underwriters Laboratories (UL) will require that all new table saw designs include a riving knife."
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/10/10 09:52 AM

I wonder if they have a retro-fit for my Ridgid t-saw? you have a Ridgid too, don't you Mark?
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/10/10 09:59 AM

UL is not law. You can buy a table saw that is not UL approved. But it does imply you should seriously consider having it as it has proven to cause less injuries, thus the UL rating.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/10/10 10:02 AM

 Originally Posted By: Adrian
I wonder if they have a retro-fit for my Ridgid t-saw? you have a Ridgid too, don't you Mark?


Yes. Mine is Ridgid too. ::Runs away giggling::

Ok, back and more serious now: Yes, I have a Ridgid 3660.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/10/10 10:27 AM

 Originally Posted By: Adrian
I wonder if they have a retro-fit for my Ridgid t-saw? you have a Ridgid too, don't you Mark?


You can’t really retro a riving knife. The arbor carrier is what holds the knife and it ride up / down with the blade always keeping the same distance to the blade. There is a close retro that a guy has been selling called the B.O.R.K. (Bolt On Riving Knife). I don’t know what happened, but I can not find his web sight today.

Walnut acre woodworking.com

I use a Biesemeyer snap in splitter on my unisaw. It works well. Not sure what's available for the Rigid.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/10/10 10:59 AM

I've seriously considered buying a SawStop professional saw, because I'm tired of retrofitting stuff on the Ridgid.

I really think the only thing that stops me is that I just don't have as much room as I'd like, and a relatively non-level floor prevents me from easily moving the saw into another position to, say, give me room front and back for a loooong rip cut.

I've wanted an updated miter saw for awhile, and am wondering about picking one up today. It seems like the Makita's are pretty much top-rated, and Makita is just introducing a newer line that doesn't seem to be as well-reviewed as the older saws. I'm thinking about getting an older one while it's still available.

Any thoughts?
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/10/10 11:06 AM

Its got a laser-ray, buy it!
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 03/10/10 11:09 AM

I've been looking at a new table saw for a while now but not seriously as there are other things I need more. It works great for it's price level except that the rip fence doesn't self square anymore. I know you should always check it anyways but some are better than others and this is definitely one of the others.

I too share the challenge of an uneven floor. I work in my garage and the floor is mostly sloped into the middle into a drain for all the melting snow you drag in with you in the winter. Tools get drug around to the empty spots when needed.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/10/10 11:12 AM

 Originally Posted By: Zimm
Its got a laser-ray, buy it!

I'll probably shoot my eye out!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/10/10 12:51 PM

Murph, one of the reasons I bought the Ridgid Tablesaw was for it's excellent fence, it seemed better than many of the others I looked at...stays square and clamps extremely well. That, plus the $350!! I got it for at HD.

Mark, I don't think you could go wrong with the Makita, Bosch or any of the other name brands out there, but I would avoid the Craftsman. Unless they've made some changes to the design flaws on the one that I have owned for a few years(dual bev 12"), I wouldn't recommend it. Those flaws include binding of the sliding mechanism while in mid-cut(dangerous) as well as very poor dust extraction. The motor has also become quite noisy as well.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/10/10 12:56 PM

Unfortunately, I think the dust extraction sucks (or doesn't suck) on any except the Festool.... and I'd never get Joyce to agree to $1300.....
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/10/10 01:23 PM

Buy it for HER birthday!
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/10/10 01:51 PM

Footprint wise, a cabinet saw takes up less floor space than a contractor saw. My floor is uneven as my floor drain is in the middle of my garage. I just found a spot on the floor where all the rollers sit squarely with the saw stable. I then painted some reference marks on the floor that I roll the saw to and all is golden.

Adrian, I had trouble with my Rigid’s fence. My journey to a better fence led me to the purchase of a slightly used Unisaw and Incra fence. I absolutely love this set up and wish I had done this years ago. I like the Incra so much I bought one for my router table.

If I was looking at brand new saws, the Sawstop would be my first choice. I’ve seen them up close and I think the quality is higher than Powermatic or the Unisaw. They are very nicely put together. The blade stop is just a great bonus.

Here’s a pic of my saw with cantilevered rail and infield table support. It helps keep the footprint smaller for those uneven floors….



I built the router table so I could move the Incra from the rear to the side for dovetail work (makes it easier to reach on the side). I've since built a little oak pod for the Wixey in the pic.




Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/10/10 02:01 PM

That's all B.S. That is not a workshop. I saw that room at the Delta showroom. No dust. No scraps. No kid's bikes. No blood on the saw...no duct tape.

Complete B.S.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/11/10 10:09 AM

Too Funny.... LOL

Does anyone have a good tip for cleaning glue off K-body clamp bars? I've been putting off cleaning mine for too long.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 03/11/10 11:04 AM

My Father-in-Law has a Saw Stop saw and it has had a few false activations of the braking mechanism and this is not a cheap thing to fix once it is set off. I beleive this is why the other companies avoided this technology.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/11/10 12:39 PM

I asked around a little about a retro-fitting riving knife with mixed response....one older fellow, who's quite knowledgeable re woodworking, at my local HD said he thought Woodcraft or someone made a kit to retro-fit older table saws, but I checked with a local woodworking store he recommended and they said they hadn't heard of any...'yet', but he thought some companies might bring one out at some time.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 03/11/10 02:11 PM

I just don't see exactly how a riving knife is that much better than the blade guard/divider already on the tablesaws that everyone simply removes to do the more intricate cuts, dado's etc. I would bet a riving knife would be removed more than it is left on.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/11/10 02:24 PM

I've seen riving knives that sit lower than the height of the blade so they can stay installed, on the otherhand if the knife is above the blade, it'll need to be removed for non-through cuts which would be a pain as you infer, Jay. I've had wood bind on me while I'm cutting, esp when I did my hardwood flooring and had to rip some hardwood lengthwise. The riving knife is much more robust than the normal divider and is there to stop the back of the already cut wood from binding on the cutter and creating a dangerous kick back. I've been lucky so far, no kickbacks, but I've had some binding/burning a few times so if there's a retrofit available I'd certainly check it out.

BTW, nice shop Michael!!
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 03/11/10 02:47 PM

Most dividers I have seen utilize antikickback pawls and they actually work pretty good........ if they are installed.

After some looking around I think the Riving Knife is the new version of this old stand guard and does allow for some slightly better safety as some knives do appear to be able to stay on for those non through cuts as Adrian mentioned.
Posted by: Sloped

Re: Got Wood? - 03/11/10 04:28 PM

On the new tables, the riving knife simply pulls out and snaps in. It's completely tool less (except for some operators) so it's not an inconvenience at all. It's better than the pawls in that no markings/indents would be placed on the wood should it be utilized.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/11/10 05:56 PM

A riving knife, sitting lower than the top of the blade, can also bu used on non-through cuts.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 03/12/10 02:41 AM

I wonder if the saws will have multiple knives to make them more useable in the varied situations we put the saws through.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 03/17/10 12:04 PM

I have found these little splitters, anyone tried them?

Also saw this item which looks interesting, although I am not sure I could get used to running my hands right over the top of the blade, even though I know they are well away from it.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/17/10 12:14 PM

The GRRR-Ripper looks like a good idea, although it would be easy to make your own version of it.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/17/10 01:08 PM

I wouldn't use them. When you need a splitter, you REALLY need it and flimsy plastic things would not work IMHO. Just last week I was ripping some 5/4 oak with an attitude. I sure was glad I had my metal splitter.... The most popular splitter / guard mentioned most on the wood working forums seams to be the Shark Guard. You can buy the guard, splitter, ZCI or combination of all. I almost bought one, but liked the Biesmeyer better because it just clicks and in removes without tools and I hate gaurds in general. But the Beiz is only for Unisaws.

SharkGaurd…
http://www.leestyron.com/sharkguard.php

I think the gripper would collect dust. Too much trouble to set it up. I make my own push sticks. They are just simple T-handled things made out of plywood with the handle about six inches high.

I also have board buddies, but don't use them very often because I can't use a push stick with them in place.

Really, but best defense is to carefully set up the fence to run about .005" out of parallel to the blade and just good old common sense. I set my table to blade with a dial indicator. I made a simple jig out of oak that is a T that the dial mounts to. I set the blade to miter as close to perfect as I can, then set the fence to the right miter to be .005” out in the rear. I also have a 10” plate that I use, but you can get away with using the blade. The plate can also be used as a sanding disk, and that’s usually what they call them when you go to order one.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/10 01:05 PM

Anyone work with veneer much?? I haven’t, just vinyl laminate. I imagine they are similar to work with, but maybe not??

I ask because I’m thinking about covering an EP 600 I have with Hickory veneer. I have Hickory hard wood floors and would like to put this sub in that room. The sub has Boston Cherry vinyl on it now. I think I can run a ROS over the case to rough it up a bit(after I pull everything off of it), then use contact cement to adhere the veneer and use a laminate trimmer to cut off the excess. Maybe sand the seams down a bit, then finish them.

Trying to navigate around the non-90 deg corners is going to be a bitch. I think Axiom groves the veneer somehow, then rolls it over the corners.

Any suggestions / ideas / insight would be appreciated before I tear into this thing.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/10 01:19 PM

Yep. Done that. Happy to help if you need it. The sub is more of what you are going for I think. [img][/img]

Go to this page and see what I did. Sorry, but the page is now a bit of a mess with the veneer project spread around. But let me know if you want to know more. Ribbon Striped Mahogany over black
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/10 01:21 PM

I must have removed some of the project pics, but the sub was a black veneer before I did the project. Key detail I guess.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/10 01:41 PM

I have the micro splitters to which you refer. Second best thing to a riving knife. WTH???? Is everyone here a woodworker/finisher? And why aren't any of us working right now?

And remember, though it can look realy sharp painted and all smooth and shiny, MDF edges don't take kindly to much contact.

Anyone planning on no vinyl or veneer, be careful, Plus, Axiom's bare MDF option is just as much $$ as veneer (Wonder why???)
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/10 01:44 PM

The way they build the speakers is that the vinyl is actually applied to the MDF, then they're folded. Bare MDF wouldn't have the vinyl, by definition, so it's probably a custom build.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/10 01:56 PM

Really? So the cabinet is assmebled like a waterfall joint w/ all the joint angles cut, then laid face-down onto the sheet goods?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/10 01:59 PM

As far as I know, yeah.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/10 03:10 PM

The raw cabinet material is MDF sheets with the vinyl pre-applied. These are fed into a CNC machine that cuts deep v-shaped fold lines just a hair's breadth away from the vinyl. It also cuts dados for internal bracing and holes for drivers, ports, and rear terminals into the back of the sheets. Then, glue is applied to the v-cuts and dados, braces are inserted, and the cabinet is folded into its final shape.

It's a pretty effective process and is why Axiom cabinets are so seamless.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/10 03:13 PM

I'm surprised the veneer will bend as sharply as they get it to bend. When I try that it cracks. Impressive.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/10 03:17 PM

This is the way the vinyl speakers are assembled. Vinyl is flexible. I suspect the VaSSallo wood finishes are done differently.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/10 03:28 PM

Ah, yes. Good point. I built some computer speakers last week for giggles and got a decent bend from the veneer but then cracked an edge on the face forcing the issue. Thankfully they were test subjects with left over veneer.

NO, I won't take pics. They are not cute...but sound okay.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/10 04:33 PM

I would imagine that both the species of wood veneer as well as the grain direction would play a part in how much you can bend it, not to mention if it is paperbacked/reinforced as well.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/10 04:45 PM

Not sure about the species, but that makes sense. The grain and backing clearly have a big role. I use 3M backed and that let's them bend pretty good, but 90 degrees is too much unless you bull-nose it.
A truly skilled friend of mine uses pure wood veneers, no backing. He says if you wet it correctly and do certain steps you can bend any veneer to any shape. But he makes beds from 3" thick mahogany, so I am not about to say 'just do it like he does'.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/10 04:49 PM

Charles, did you use one of those veneer edge trimming tools on your project?
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/10 05:02 PM

I did. Should have spend much more on it as my last little project has a big tear from using a dull blade.

The cheap little plastic edge tool does the job but buy lots of extra blades and replace as soon as you grab at all on a cut. I was surprised how good a corner could look just using that tool.

You can't really see but the sub above has two trimmed parts meeting at the edge showing. The gap is less than you would expect from using real wood for the sides with good miter cuts, which is all I can ask for.

But not to the quality of Axiom where it looks like one piece of wood.
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/10 09:27 PM

 Originally Posted By: michael_d

Trying to navigate around the non-90 deg corners is going to be a bitch. I think Axiom groves the veneer somehow, then rolls it over the corners.


For a picture of a cabinet ready to be assembled, gives you an idea of how the vinyl fits into the 'fold', see the pics posted on our '04 Axiom Factory tour.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/10 09:46 PM

Umm, what pics?
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/10 10:43 PM

Thanks, PM, for sharing the process. Makes total sense. My M60/500 QS8's cab's. are seamless and a great veneering job, even if everyone but me is using CNC. The application of the catalyzed finish isn't great though, as there are grain voids in the finish in places (which shouldn't even exist on maple), but I was too lazy to complain, and not willing to live w/o 'em once they were here.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 11:18 AM

I had not seen those pictures or that thread before. Thanks for sharing Chess.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 11:22 AM

 Originally Posted By: Zimm
I must have removed some of the project pics, but the sub was a black veneer before I did the project. Key detail I guess.


The speakers look very good. Unique.

How did you adhere the veneer to the vinyl? What do you use to trim it with? Can you ask your friend what the techniques are for bending it around corners?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 11:37 AM

Michael, check a few posts back re trimming the veneer, there's a special(inexpensive) tool for this such as the Bennett Veneer Trimming Tool. Basically a handle with a small, sharp, replaceable, planing knife in it.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 11:45 AM

Oh...thanks Adrian. I'm still on my fist shot of espresso. Takes me three or four to become human.

So how do you cut the sheets to a rough dimension before adhering them to the work?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 11:57 AM

I haven't done any veneer work, but like others here, I've often wondered about doing the exact same thing as yourself...veneering some nice wood over vinyl. From what I researched before, I believe there are some specialty saws like this one from Lee Valley or maybe a very sharp Xacto or utility knife perhaps?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 12:11 PM

Also found this cutter that might be usefull, or something similar to it.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 12:32 PM

I would think a flush cut router bit would work well for trimming edges smooth
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 12:39 PM

Ya, me too. I have a small Porter Cable laminate trimmer but I will not be able to flush trim the corners of the EP600. They are not 90 deg. I'd have to make some sort of wedge jig to match the angles. Sometimes that works, if you don't run out of bit length.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 01:08 PM

michael d:
Lee Valley is a great suggestion, even if they are Canadian ;-)
Don't miss out on my favorite toy store, Rockler. Lee Valley's service is awesome, too!

A very good source is "Veneering & Inlay," by Jonathan Benson (Fox Chapel Pub., 2008).

You can rough cut with a blade on a cutting surface, scissors, or my fave, a rotary scissors (looks just like a pizza wheel).

May find them @ some woodworking places/sites, but any decent sewing/fabric store would carry a good OLFA brand one.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 03:08 PM

 Originally Posted By: Adrian
I haven't done any veneer work, but like others here, I've often wondered about doing the exact same thing as yourself...veneering some nice wood over vinyl. From what I researched before, I believe there are some specialty saws like this one from Lee Valley or maybe a very sharp Xacto or utility knife perhaps?


I highly recommend the 3M VHB backed veneers for the non-pro (like me). It cuts with scissors for the rough cut; the pressure sensitive adhesive is rock solid once it sets. Then use one of those cheap edge trimmers and you get good edges. Look at the 3/4 inch edge on the towers. You have three edges in the shot (against the cabinet, and two meeting on outside edge), and not much evidence it is not a solid piece of wood. I will warn you that curves on the cutting edge can be problematic, as can non-90 degree edges.

For example, the front of the subwoofer baffle is not perpendicular to the top or sides. Thus the type of trimmer I used had trouble getting a perfect edge. I was not happy with the outcome. Those other trimmer designs might work better, but I would avoid the router based designs. Too much damage potential where a razor will suffice. Can't imaging having a "little" router error on top of your EP sub. \:o

I'll try to find my source data. We had a thread on here about it, but it has been several months.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 03:29 PM

I see they also have a type of glue you can apply yourself to the raw, or paperbacked veneer then set it with a household iron to activate the bond.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 04:08 PM

My gifted friend said the iron method does work - and he would not say that about a product that did not give a great finish. But the 3M peel is so easy because you don't have to mess with glue. If you are going with glue, then skip to the pure wood without a backing. But that can be harder as the backing gives you some flexibility.

Have I made my lack of expertise clear enough yet?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 04:18 PM

Obviously, veneering is a learned skill where results should improve with practise. The one thing I've seen(on veneersupplies.com and similar sites) is that most of my* favourite veneers are in the "raw" type which probably isn't the best place to start learning.

Do the paperbacked veneers come in the various matchings(bookmatched, slipmatched ect) or do you have to match the edges yourself? anyone know?
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 04:21 PM

I think they add the 3M to the veneer on-site, so you could get matched. But some of the exotic stuff does not fit standard sizes I think they avoid trying to add the backing. I want to do a Sapalee speaker soon. Love that stuff.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 04:28 PM

Thanks guys. I had no idea veneer came in stick on version. I have only seen the solid wood type that's about 1/8" thick.

Bob - I buy from Lee Valley. I agree, great place to shop. I love their pencils and graph paper.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 04:34 PM

Michael, if you haven't tried already, check out Veneer Supplies. They have lots of info, and some really nice veneers or Google "wood veneer", there's loads of info on the web.
Posted by: michael_d

Jewelry Armoire - 03/25/10 04:56 PM


Just finished my last project. It was a lot more difficult than I thought it would be when I said “sure, I can make you one of those honey”. It was supposed to be her Christmas present, missed that, then it was going to be her birthday present, missed that date too, then it was going to be her valentine’s day gift….. ya, missed that one too. Now I’m calling it her belated Christmas / Birthday / Valentine’s Day present.

It’s all red oak and the case joinery is Mortise and Tennon. I built in around the dimension of the jewelry tray inserts I bought from Rockler. I sized the drawer inside dimensions 1/16” larger than the inserts, and then designed it out from there. I got the idea from some mission stile units that were listed on Amazon.

Final fit and glue up.



Ready to stain.



I hate making drawers....



Stained, ready for poly and assembly.



Drawer inserts that started this thing. (NOTE: do not follow the mounting instructions for the lid supports. I did, which is why there are holes on the lid. A mirror will go there to cover them.)






Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 04:59 PM

Yep. The veneer is the easy part. Finishing it to meet the quality of the wood is the real bear. This picture does not help but I tried to piano finish the black to contrast the satin finish ribbon mahogany. Looks ok live, and has actually aged better.
[img][/img]
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 05:00 PM

Oh, that's nice. Drop some real craftsmanship right when I post a pic of my experiment. I'll meet you behind the gym after school!
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Jewelry Armoire - 03/25/10 05:03 PM

I wish I felt comfortable cussing on the boards, because what I want to say is "Holy #*$(#&, dude!" That's a piece of fine furniture. I'm sure she'll say it was worth the wait. Wow. \:o
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 05:05 PM

Michael, et al: This caveat is only for those of you who might receive psych services, but aren't getting good psychotropic drugs ;-) Be careful about this woodworking thing. I was on and off for almost a decade. Then, I went so bananas with doing it after I got downsized from my last position and had a year off, that I had to turn pro to justify (and deduct) my spending habits. So, now I'm self-emp, a crapload poorer, but far more content.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Jewelry Armoire - 03/25/10 05:24 PM

Michael d; Awesome job, great design! And from the looks of the background, if you aren't pro, you've got the space and already flushed a ton o' cash on clamps alone. Are you hiding stuff from view, like an 18" flatbed planer and a whole Festool Collection in the corner? You go!
Posted by: RickF

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 05:26 PM

That's incredible work Mike!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 05:39 PM

Very, very nice, Michael.

BTW, getting back to some of the veneer questions and applications, there are veneer "softeners" available, both professional and homemade style. That might be helpfull when applying over curves or for easily damaged veneers like burls.
Posted by: RickF

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 05:52 PM

Most of this woodworking stuff is all Greek to me, but those two angled devices Michael has hanging on the wall is something I can relate to.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 06:02 PM

Yah, those are some big door stops.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 06:07 PM

Adrian, Rick: Since you both have been around this site for some time, could you answer a question? In the three days I've been at this site instead of doing what I should be, I have been a Newbie, a Frequent Flier, and now a Hobbyist. Not that I have aspirations, but how does one become a "corner sewer?"
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 06:19 PM

Thanks for the compliments fellas. This little project wasn’t particularly fun. I’m glad it’s done. I’m finding the smaller things are, the more difficult they are to build.

Bob – Ya, I’ve got a bunch of money invested in this “hobby”. If the market hadn’t have tanked, I’d be semi retired right now and wood working was going to be something to keep me busy and help pay some bills. For now, and the past several years, I build stuff for friends and family and they end up buying me stuff in return, like a router lift or a case of wine I want. They get something they want, the way they want it and I get something in return that I want, plus I get to do something I enjoy doing.

No Festool stuff yet, but I have been eyeballing a Domino for a while now….. My next toy will be one of those oscillating drum sanders Jet makes.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 06:20 PM

Be carefull, Rick. I think this is a trick question....
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 06:26 PM

Mike, as always...awesome. You are a Master Craftsman!
Posted by: RickF

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 06:31 PM

 Originally Posted By: Adrian
Be carefull, Rick. I think this is a trick question....

Yea that's what I was thinking Adrian, I was waiting for you to reply first.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 06:59 PM

Beautiful work, Mike.

BobKay - your title thingamabob is based on post count. Somebody who cares more than I do probably knows where the chart is.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 07:22 PM

TomT: Thanks for the info. Thought I was being fiddled with;-)
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 07:27 PM

Mark/Adrian: So, not only afraid of solvents, but afraid of "trick questions," too?!? And I thought there were no girls on this site.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 07:39 PM

Michael d: Well, that's a good deal for all concerned. Clients are a whole other beast. They tell me what they want. I then try to convince them how they should want it. What did you get in exchange from Mrs. d for such an artful piece? C'mon, didn't you sweat and get dirty doing it?
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 07:50 PM

 Originally Posted By: BobKay
Mark/Adrian: So, not only afraid of solvents, but afraid of "trick questions," too?!? And I thought there were no girls on this site.

No girls here, only men with square rooms.

Tom. I thought your title was determined by your threadjack count.

Thats some colleciton of fancy clamps ya got there Mikey!
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 08:41 PM

I don't think you can ever have enough clamps Fred..... Sure wish I had more, but those stinking K bodies are expensive as hell.

Bob, she got me an Incra fense for my table saw, a WWII 48T blade and a Delta M/T jig for Christmas. We are not married so I get other things whenever the mood srikes. \:\)
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 09:06 PM

 Quote:
Sure wish I had more, but those stinking K bodies are expensive as hell.

I know I sure can't afford them. They look like really nice clamps though.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 09:26 PM

The Jet clamps are supposed to be very good clamps as well.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 11:11 PM

Michael d: Well that covers the obvious as well as any inuendo.

I have quite a few Incra products. Like them all, a lot. Too $$, so have always waited 'til the "next thing" and gotten some great deals on "last year's models." Seems like you got some good things goin' all around, m.d. Good for you!
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/10 11:25 PM

Clamps: Beacuse of the $$, I have always waited for sales on K's, regardless of brand. Revo, Bessey, Jet, have 'em all, up to 72." I do mostly case work, so they're a must. They all have their +/-'s and do what I need. I am fond of things teutonic, so I'm a bit partial to the Bessey's. But hey, ever clamp a 10' cabinet? So, yeah, still got gobs of black pipe and Pony's. Even have articulating arm Bessey's for non-90's, like holding a ballister to the handrail for nailing. There i$ no end.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 03/30/10 08:48 AM

Picked up this Freud Dado set for $50 bucks while I was away. Open box but not a single scratch, bolt tightening mark or even a dulling of the logo on any of the blades. Definitely never used.
Groovy! Excuse the pun.


Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/10 03:55 AM

Found this table/work bench for those of us with limited space.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/10 09:11 AM

Thanks, Jay. That looks like a pretty nifty table. I've been toying around with the idea of setting up a workshop in my garage (I live in an apartment, but do have a garage) and am under the impression that I can do some woodworking. It's not a bad price, either--$150 at Amazon.

Looks like the accessories can add up quick.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/10 10:04 AM

Pretty cool concept. You would definitely have to plan out your work stages well though. Of course I should be doing that now regardless I suppose.....
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/10 11:32 AM

 Originally Posted By: St_PatGuy
It's not a bad price, either--$150 at Amazon.

Looks like the accessories can add up quick.
I can't find it locally up here and shipping it from the States makes in a $250 table for me, so I will still have to build something similar on my own.

As with most things the accessories cost more than the original piece of equipment
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/10 12:29 PM

It looks like a pretty clever work station but as Jay mentions, I think people should price out all the accessories before they decide on purchasing it...looks like it could get Ka-chingy.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/10 01:50 PM

It is the price you pay if you want both space saving and convenience
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/10 06:31 PM

Jay, I found a couple of reviews on it and it sounds like it doesn't provide a particularly flat surface.

Cool idea though. I wish there was a way for me to set up a portable router table on my apartment balcony. I don't think this table would quite do for me though.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/10 07:42 PM

I would think any one of the table top router tables would work for you.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/10 11:36 PM

It needs to be portable.

Edit: OK, table top. I have not been happy with the tabletop tables I have tried.

I know what I want, I just don't have the $ to buy it.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/10 04:25 AM

I was thinking of something like this.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 04/04/10 08:19 PM

Back to veneering….

I picked up a sheet of 4’ X 8’ straight grain cherry. All they had was paper back, 10 mil. As soon as the 500’s show up, I’m going to…gulp….fingers crossed…atempt to veneer the 600. Wish me luck.

A fella at SMC (my other internet haunt) posted a link to a sight where a guy restores old Klipsch horn speakers. He does an amazing job and has step by step tutorials with lot of pics. It didn’t help me as I’m not going to do anything the way he does it, but it is a good sight to waste some time at. http://www.voltiaudio.com/index.shtml
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 04/04/10 09:55 PM

I'm interested in your project, Mike. Are you going to build a vacuum press, use contact cement, the heated glue method or what?
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 04/05/10 12:33 PM

 Originally Posted By: michael_d
Back to veneering….

I picked up a sheet of 4’ X 8’ straight grain cherry. All they had was paper back, 10 mil. As soon as the 500’s show up, I’m going to…gulp….fingers crossed…atempt to veneer the 600. Wish me luck.

A fella at SMC (my other internet haunt) posted a link to a sight where a guy restores old Klipsch horn speakers. He does an amazing job and has step by step tutorials with lot of pics. It didn’t help me as I’m not going to do anything the way he does it, but it is a good sight to waste some time at. http://www.voltiaudio.com/index.shtml


Remember the old measure twice and cut once, and you will be fine. Errors I made were (1) placing one grain pattern in the wrong direction, (2) cutting along a curve with a dull blade, and (3) over sanding near the corners between layers.

Also, I found my guide for finishing the veneer lacquer .

Good luck.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 04/05/10 01:51 PM

Charles, did you use the KTM-9? Did you spray it? How was your experience?
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 04/05/10 01:57 PM

On the black oak laminate I spraid the KTM-9 surface prep spray but used a regular water lacquer - Daft I think? The surface prep worked well, but trying to get piano gloss on black is a challenge. Very senstive to overspary. The results were ok for a first attempt, but not as good as I hoped for. Can't blame the KTM product. But it is an expensive product compared to those available from Rockler, etc.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/05/10 02:33 PM

That's probably where you need a good 'down draft' spray booth Charles, to keep the overspray from floating around and settling on the sprayed surfaces.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 04/05/10 09:46 PM

 Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
I'm interested in your project, Mike. Are you going to build a vacuum press, use contact cement, the heated glue method or what?


I really want to avoid going down the road of bags and equipment. Once I do, I’ll just end up spending a bunch of money on stuff I’ll rarely use. Heck, twenty years of woodworking and this is the first interest I’ve had in doing it. I plan to use a water based contact cement because I read that petroleum based can bleed through and mess with the finish – and I can’t find any iron on adhesive (I’d rather use that). I’m going to run a sander over the corners to sort of round them a bit. Then I plan to adhere the front first, working from the middle with a laminate roller, then ‘attempt’ to roll the laminate over the rounded corners without cracking it. I’ve played with it some, and it’s pretty pliable. I think I can do with without using veneer softener. I hope so anyway. I’ll need to make a template for the driver and air port out of ¼ MDF first so that I can use it re-rout those openings in the veneer. Well that’s the plan anyway. I got the 500’s hooked up and calibrated today (oh boy, oh wow!!) so I’ll start this project tomorrow. If you don’t hear back from me, then I’m pissed off and sanding the thing down to paint it black…..
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/05/10 10:10 PM

Michael, have you checked out Better Bond Heat Lock Glue ?
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 04/06/10 01:58 PM

 Originally Posted By: michael_d
I’m going to run a sander over the corners to sort of round them a bit.

I'm no expert, but based on my limited experience, I would advise not using a powered sander. I would try a real high grit paper or 00 steel wool by hand first. The veneer is so thin powered may piss you off early in the game. You are talking about a small total area to sand so no real time difference.

 Originally Posted By: michael_d

Then I plan to adhere the front first, working from the middle with a laminate roller, then ‘attempt’ to roll the laminate over the rounded corners without cracking it. I’ve played with it some, and it’s pretty pliable. I think I can do with without using veneer softener. I hope so anyway. I’ll need to make a template for the driver and air port out of ¼ MDF first so that I can use it re-rout those openings in the veneer.


That sounds right. I did not make a template, and regret it as the fact was the worst part. I repeated that failure on my recent computer speakers - see how well I learn.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/06/10 02:04 PM

Be carefull using steel wool on your project if you are going to use water based stain or clear coat, it can cause tiny rust spots in your finish.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 04/06/10 02:20 PM

I clean with naptha after, but yes, you want to avoid rust. It messes with the imaging and shrings the 1st order reflection.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/06/10 04:52 PM

Everything you describe as your intended process will work, since I assume you're going to sand the corners of the MDF cabinet and not the veneer before applying. However, I'd take the advice and not use power at all. MDF can disappear really quickly in a pink cloud and there's not enough thinckness to powersand veneer. And I wouldn't go below 150grit for edge sanding after applying and trimming the veneer. (I use 180).

Also, I place cut, straighted coat hanger rods on my cemented substrate. Then posisition the veneer. Remove the rods one at a time as you roller your way up the surface.

We've seen your work. You will do an awesome job, no doubt.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 04/06/10 05:51 PM

I used a combination of ROS, block sanding and hand sanding. The dam port is glued together and I couldn't remove it. I had to sand it flush with the case and use wood filler. Just finished coating the cement. I'm waiting for it to dry, then the fun begins..... I'm committed now. This might have been a mistake.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 04/06/10 05:55 PM

Is it wrong for me to be a little excited by that air of uncertainty?

Pictures? Audio?

Looking forward to learning from your adventure, Mike.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/06/10 05:58 PM

Mistakes are temporary things. Mastery isn't never making any, it's being able to resolve them. Even if this goes south (I doubt it), you could still give 'em another go.

Besides, you're doing this for everyone. We all wanna know about this and you're the first guy ever at the end of the rope being lowered into the unexplored abyss.

You go. We are (safely) in rows behind you!
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 04/06/10 06:10 PM

Right on, Bob!!

The Abyss! You Go!


Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/06/10 06:15 PM

Do you think we'll hear from him again tonight, Tom? Hate to think of him up all night, stuck in his shop 'cause he slipped on and fell in the contact cement.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 04/06/10 07:11 PM

I'm not worried about any glue mishaps. Only Michael can contain Michael.

But I'm not waiting up. ;\)
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 04/06/10 09:21 PM

Waiting for the back glue to dry to stick the back down. With I would have done that first, dangit. But....so far so good. I'm documetning my adventure. So much for my tempate idea...... Didn't work. Had to cut the holes by hand.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/06/10 11:52 PM

Had to check on your progress. Knew you'd get it all to bend to your will. And I didn't want to add confusion, but I would have hand cut the veneer out of the driver holes anyway. You're doin' it. Good luck with next phase, Michael.

And remember... this is soooo much bigger than you now ;-)
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 04/07/10 09:11 PM

Just waiting for the Poly to dry now. I tried some poly spray in a can this time. Don’t think I like that crap much, but I can’t brush gloss to save my life, so it did come out better than what my brush skills would have accomplished. Should be able to buff it with some beeswax tomorrow and put it back together. I hate finishing….. I took a few pics throughout the process so I can put together a step by step tutorial. Maybe tomorrow if I have time.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/07/10 11:25 PM

Very much looking forward to your final result. Sure they'll look great.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/10 03:36 PM

I don’t have much spare time, so I’ll make this brief. If anyone wants to try this and has specific questions, I’ll answer them as they come up.

I used paper backed cherry veneer. It’s .018” thick, so I’m guessing it’s 20 mil. You can get 10 or 20 mil. I chose this species to match the cabinets in my kitchen which is part of the great room where the 600 is going.

I wasn’t sure if the veneer would roll over the leading edge corners without cracking, so I rounded them down a bit. I used a random orbital sander with 150 grit paper. I then used a sanding block to make sure that whatever radius I ended up with would be consistent from top to bottom.



The port will not come out without destroying it. It is flanged at both ends and there’s no way to get it out without cutting it in half. I decided to sand it down flush with the cabinet. I ran some sheet rock screws in to secure it, and then filled them with filler.



Because I wanted to roll the corners, I needed a total veneer width of 47 ¾”. The sheet is 48 ½”, so it was important to set it just right. Once the veneer touches the case, there’d be no moving it with destroying it. Contact cement sticks like crazy. I used a water based cement made by 3M. It worked very well. I rolled it on to the veneer and the case with a 4” foam roller, let it sit for about 30 to let it dry, then prepared to adhere it. I also marked the center of the case leading edge and the center of the veneer to position it. This veneer is much more pliable than I thought it would be, so I had to use a bunch of spacers to keep it from sagging and touching the case before I wanted it to. I used a 2” laminate roller, starting in the center of the sheet of the leading edge and worked my way out. After the leading edge was secure and flat, I just rolled it around the corners, pressing it down with my hand then following up with the roller.




Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/10 03:37 PM

Trimming this stuff is pretty painless. I used a utility knife and changed blades often. I left about 1/16” and used my sander with 150 grit to sand it flush. I figured this would be safer than trying to trim flush. If it is not perfectly square to the edge, it will be visible and the joint will not look right. I found that if I score the paper side on the cross grain cuts first, it would cut much easier.





I did make a template out of parchment paper so that I could find all the holes later. Glad I did……. I used my utility knife to cut everything out, working to the edge by making the holes larger in steps till I could see exactly where the final cut needed to be. A little hand sanding with 150 grit finished the cuts off.






Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/10 03:40 PM

After all the edging was done, I ran over the veneer with 220 grit, then 320 grit. I don’t normally stain wood. I like the natural look and I pick my wood species for the desired look. Plus, cheery will darken all on its own. In a few months, it will darken up quite a bit. I used 3M spray adhesive on the labels to stick them on the cabinet. The little plastic Axiom badge is secured by means of two little pegs. I didn’t want to deal with drilling holes just right in the veneer and broke them off. The adhesive works well enough.









I need order a different grill to match the cherry now. The black looks like crap on the natural cheery.





Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/10 03:41 PM

Looks great Mike and you make it sound so easy. \:\)

You are doing what I hope to do someday to my system. My wife and I have talked about it especially since we moved into the new house, luckily she likes the high contrast the stock light maple has with the rest of the chocolate stained maple, so I/we are in no rush to do it right away.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/10 03:46 PM

Mike, as always, that looks totally awesome. I'd kill to have some of your woodworking skills....
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/10 03:50 PM

Fantastic outcome. Nice work and good photos. For the grill, I always liked the stainless mesh that somebody did on here. It would look nice against your rack, but it is a polarizing look. Some hate it, i loved it.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/10 04:07 PM

Beautiful job, Michael. What kind of clearcoat did you use and how did you apply it?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/10 04:52 PM

 Originally Posted By: Zimm
It would look nice against your rack


Snicker-Snicker.

I bet it would look great up against your equipment too!

Snicker-Snicker.
Posted by: RickF

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/10 05:34 PM

Awesome job Mike (as usual) ... what do you have in mind for the grill?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/10 05:38 PM

I would suggest a couple of steaks and a skewer of garlic shrimp to start.....
Posted by: RickF

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/10 05:40 PM

And cold beer ... can't forget the beer!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/10 05:42 PM

I guess I could have said "beer battered shrimp" but your right, a beer battered chef is more fun!
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/10 06:24 PM

Mike, as always, that looks totally awesome. I'd kill Mark to have some of your woodworking skills...
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/10 07:08 PM

 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
…I'd kill to have some of your woodworking skills....


Thanks for the compliment Mark. I’ve seen some of your work too. I think I just have more tools than you, but certainly am not any more skilled. And I’ll never have your photography skills, as those can’t be learned….

 Originally Posted By: Adrian
What kind of clearcoat did you use and how did you apply it?


I just used wood conditioner, then sprayed it with Minwax, fast dry Polyurethane. It took two cans to get three coats. It turned out a lot better than I thought it would at first. Kind of expensive though. I just need to bite the bullet and get a sprayer.

 Originally Posted By: RickF
... what do you have in mind for the grill?


Not sure, probable Burnt Sienna. I haven’t made up my mind yet.

Thanks for all the compliments guys. It really wasn’t all that hard. Just takes a lot of patience, which is something I lack so anyone should be able to do this without a lot of effort.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/10 08:01 PM

Beautiful work, Mike. Cherry remains one of my favorite wood grains.

Oh, and I love your house. That listening chair looks very inviting!
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/10 09:36 PM

Beautiful job Mike! Its nice to know that it is possible to redo the finish on our speakers.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/10 09:39 PM

Nice work! Edges all look great, and if they're good enough to satisfy you, I'm sure they're as good as the pics make them look. Would love to sit in that chair one day. \:\)
Posted by: CV

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/10 11:35 PM

I'm always amazed when you share your work, Mike. Just think if you had patience.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 04/09/10 05:45 AM

Hey, you posted more pics while I was typing my first response. The finished product looks great! It gives me even more desire and hope of doing the same.
Posted by: davidsch

Re: Got Wood? - 04/09/10 07:36 AM

Beautiful work, Mike.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/09/10 09:41 AM

 Originally Posted By: michael_d
I’ve seen some of your work too. I think I just have more tools than you, but certainly am not any more skilled.


Somehow you guys have confused my love/enthusiasm for woodworking with thinking that I know what I'm doing.

I'm actually pretty inexperienced in woodworking. You've just been hearing about it the last couple of years because I've started getting more interested in it and am "building up" my workshop. Most of the things I build are FOR the workshop... kind of an incestuous hobby so far.. but I'm hoping to build some small furniture pieces someday.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 04/09/10 09:53 AM

 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
 Originally Posted By: Zimm
It would look nice against your rack


Snicker-Snicker.

I bet it would look great up against your equipment too!

Snicker-Snicker.


Wow! How did I not see that...
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/09/10 10:42 AM

Very nice work. Great job matching edges. Always a trick with my shaky hands.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/09/10 03:29 PM

Mike: There. It's over and done. Well done (like always). You have now satisfied the curiosity of countless people and put yourself (well the EP600) in grave and mortal danger for our edification. You f'rock! Your loghome is way cool, too!
Posted by: Glitchy

Re: Got Wood? - 04/22/10 08:29 PM

Well it's "Produced", but it's all real. I'm around it every day so sometimes I forget what it really is from concept to a product.

Thought some of you might enjoy this:

"Please take a look at Fast Company's coverage of Corvo, designed by Noé
Duchaufour-Lawrance. The article includes our video for Corvo - it's the
most romantic documentary you'll ever see of the creation of a chair. You
can also find the video on Noé's Discover page."


Fast Company
http://www.fastcompany.com/1607452/chair...deo?partner=rss

Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/22/10 09:43 PM

Thanks for that, Jeff. Saw that chair somewhere just last month---I.D., Metropolis? Can't recall. I was taken then with it's proportions and the scooped out rail. Tres slick.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 04/25/10 02:22 PM

FYI: Regarding all the veneer talk lately, this month's Fine Woodworking has a great section on curved veneer methods, and various projects.

Best FWW I have seen in years - for my interest, anyway.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 12:17 AM

I'm about (holds up thumb and finger) this far from starting a Bbigwyres-style rant about woodworking. After finally admitting that the sawed-off oil drum I was using for a workbench needed some improvements (a granite top and tail vise were mentioned) I figured I would put together something with a 2x4 frame and 3/4" plywood top. A bit of research on the ol' internet quickly revealed that only the lowest of primates would ever use something like that, and that much better workbenches could be built with almost no effort and the most common of household tools.

Right.

The first and most obvious less was that there is a dire need for a standard definition for "common household tools". According to what I have read, common household tools include a jointer *or* a planer (although of course a *real* man would have both), a set of exotically shaped chisels (presumably accompanied by a grinder to keep them sharp), a drill press, something called a dado set, and some kind of table saw on which to mount said dado set. Oh yes, and every project requires a different set of drills in the 1/64 - 4 inch range, implying somewhere on the order of 175 drills to cover the range.

I'm back to the 2x4 frame and 3/4" top design. If that's not sufficiently solid I can always fill it with concrete.

If you need all those tools to build a damn workbench how many tools do you need to actually make something ON the workbench ? How long does it take to build up all that stuff, and where do you keep it all ?
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 01:08 AM

This barely qualifies as as a "got wood" post, but I'm almost done renovating the kids' bathroom and am very happy with it. The goal was to do it cheaply (<$500) and I succeeded there, even after buying a $179 miter saw (Ridgid, with a laser cut line). The main impetus to work on this bathroom was that there was a bit of subfloor that more or less disintegrated right by the tub, most likely due to water damage from previous residents.

I started a couple weeks ago by ripping out the old vinyl floor tiles, removing the toilet, wall-mounted sink, baseboards, and anything else attached to the walls (medicine cabinet, tp holder, towel rods). I cut out a section of subfloor the entire length of the tub about 1' wide and replaced it with new plywood. Then I painted the ceiling (white) and top-half of the walls (medium blue).

I've never done drywall or tile before, and I didn't want to start, so I kept the pinkish tiles in the tub surround and covered the bottom 44" of the remaining walls with mdf beadboard panels, painted white. This helped hide the drywall that had a few too many visible patch jobs. Then I installed a sheet of vinyl flooring and added the baseboards, caulking all around the edges and agains the tub to water proof the room as much as possible against my splashy kids. \:\)

My wife bought a used pedestal sink and a toliet from a local re-use store (good way to save money!) and I installed the toilet today. I would have had the sink in, too, but I need to get a part for where the P-trap meets the wall.

Silly me, I have no pictures yet, but if you bug me, I'll post some.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 01:16 AM

So. . .where are the pics?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 06:29 AM

No, seriously. Where are the pics?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 10:26 AM

I like how you're talking about replacing all this stuff, cutting up the subfloor, etc, and then you balk at tile and drywall. ;\)
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 10:51 AM

 Originally Posted By: bridgman


If you need all those tools to build a damn workbench how many tools do you need to actually make something ON the workbench ? How long does it take to build up all that stuff, and where do you keep it all ?


The third word reveals your underlying problem. Use the word, "need," only when you're spending the $$ or telling your wife about it (fools rush in). You're merely supposed to covet this stuff, then acquire it. Now, to justify, you have to "play" with it to learn how to use it. Then you figure out what you could use it for. After that, you make space for it. Got it?

Oh, and I think you mean drill bits. 175 good drills would cost over $20,000. You "need" only one. I have eight (get the picture?). A set of really good bits (30 sizes +/-) is about $50.00. I have more than 350 bits lying around somewhere(s).

Ooooh! Look at the new Festool Domino joiner! I know I "need" that for something important! And soon!
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 10:53 AM

Sorry. Typo. I do not have 350 bits. I meant 250. I'm not that outta control.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 11:12 AM

 Originally Posted By: pmbuko
I've never done drywall or tile before, and I didn't want to start, so I kept the pinkish tiles in the tub surround and covered the bottom 44" of the remaining walls with mdf beadboard panels, painted white.

That really IS a funny coincidence, because I'm planning the exact same thing for the walls in MY pink bathroom:



I'm letting a plumber take care of a new shower/surround, toilet, sink and vanity (as we're having the entire plumbing system replaced) but as far as the walls go, I had the exact same plan: Assuming that the tiles coming off the old horsehair plaster were going to leave a mess, we're planning white wainscoting to be applied directly over the tile, with molding along the top to not only trim the edge, but make up for the difference in depth (thickness).

Edit: Oh, and Joyce also wants to paint the walls above the white wainscoting a sky blue! \:\)
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 12:02 PM

That lens sure makes the bathroom look roomy. \:\) The one I'm working on is small, and there's no way to capture it well with any of my cameras.[s][/s]
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 12:06 PM

That was shot at 12mm on a full-frame camera.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 12:15 PM

Looks good Mark, but I think you missed a few opportunities for more pink in "Man Cave". \:D

Your bath looks like my house when we bought it in 2004. When new in 1998 apparently there was a massive sale on every shade of pink, in every fabric and paint available. We have gotten rid of near all of it, but every now and then you look somewhere and a bit grew back. Hard to kill pink.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 12:50 PM

Peter, if you're using MDF wainscoting in a washroom, make sure you seal it good, both front and backside. MDF does not like the the type of moisture and dampness that you get in a bathroom.

Mark, just how much farther does that window go into the corner, anyhooo? \:o
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 01:02 PM

I already got my "Master Bathroom down-to-the-studs-and-back-again" merit badge. Those were NOT the Good Old Days.

I am impressed by all of you, and am currently successfully resisting such projects, despite their obvious merit.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 01:18 PM

I have a 2nd bathroom that I reduced to removing the walls and the studs about 8 years ago, due to a massive amount of mold in the walls. I've been waiting for the bathroom to grow back, but so far no luck.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 01:56 PM

 Originally Posted By: Adrian
Mark, just how much farther does that window go into the corner, anyhooo? \:o


Half the window is blocked by the shower curtain. The new tub/shower is going to go up against the back wall, after the radiator is moved. That'll open up the rest of the window.

This bathroom looks just as it did when we bought the house 20 years ago...except for jury-rigging a shower setup (it was a tub only).

Tom, I get no points on my man card on this. Outside of the wainscoting thing, I'm only writing a check. I keep telling you guys "Just because I've been buying lots of tools, that doesn't mean I know what I'm doing!"

I was originally going to build the cabinet for the sink, but I even copped out of that when Joyce saw one she really liked at Home Depot. I've got WAY too much on my list of Things To Do to get into "optional" projects! \:\)
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 02:15 PM

 Originally Posted By: BobKay
The third word reveals your underlying problem. Use the word, "need," only when you're spending the $$ or telling your wife about it (fools rush in). You're merely supposed to covet this stuff, then acquire it. Now, to justify, you have to "play" with it to learn how to use it. Then you figure out what you could use it for. After that, you make space for it. Got it?


Ahh, now it makes sense. So my problem is that I haven't gotten to the "coveting" part yet. I'll work on that.

 Originally Posted By: BobKay
Oh, and I think you mean drill bits. 175 good drills would cost over $20,000. You "need" only one. I have eight (get the picture?). A set of really good bits (30 sizes +/-) is about $50.00. I have more than 350 bits lying around somewhere(s).


I wasn't sure whether things like hole saws counted as drill bits. It seems like you either need a lot of different-sized hole saws or you need to be able to pirouette while holding a jigsaw without falling over and cutting off your nose.

While we're talking about workbenches, I was reading Chris Schwarz's workbench book which talks about matching your workbench design to your clamping needs. That made a lot of sense, so I thought about a few likely projects and what clamping would help.

The most obvious project was a set of Muskoka chairs (Adirondack chairs south of the border) which require long angled cuts to make the slats. Normally I would put my foot on the board, start cutting until I reached my foot, awkwardly move my foot out of the way while holding a spinning circular saw, put my foot back down behind the saw, and then complete the cut. I tried to imagine how a super-duper workbench would simplify this but without a lot of success since any of the fancy hold-down thingies would get in the way of the saw. I guess the obvious answer is "if you have one of those fancy workbenches then you're probably going to have exactly the right handsaw to zip through the cuts in a matter of seconds, and a handsaw won't run into the hold-downs", but that line of reasoning only made things seem worse.

Would the right solution be for your bench to have a set of dog holes running along one of the edges so you could clamp the board lengthwise between a fixed dog and a dog in the tail vise, close enough that the cut could overhang the edge of the bench ? Presumably the dogs could be adjusted sufficiently low that the base plate of the circular saw would not hit the dogs during the cut ?

I kinda get the impression that only hand tools are to be allowed near Precious Precious Bench so maybe the whole idea of using a circular saw to make the cuts is wrong ;\)
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 02:24 PM

 Quote:
Just because I've been buying lots of tools, that doesn't mean I know what I'm doing!

You think I knew what I was doing when I started the bathroom? \:\) I actually had visions of properly coping out the baseboard and top rail trim to make perfect corners, but I quickly ditched that in favor of 45° cuts, close enough, fit, and using caulk and paint to hide the sins. \:\) As it is, I only had two inner 90° corners to deal with.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 02:34 PM

 Quote:
start cutting until I reached my foot

The visuals on that one are a little scary.

Now to put that coveting to work all we need to do is rearrange a few sentances...

 Quote:
The most obvious project was a set of Muskoka chairs (Adirondack chairs south of the border) which require long angled cuts to make the slats.

 Quote:
so maybe the whole idea of using a circular saw to make the cuts is wrong

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. Coveting and justification all in one. You, my friend, need a cabinet saw and a nice taper jig ;\)
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 02:48 PM

All this talk reminds me of an old adage I've always liked.

I don't want a boat. I want a friend with a boat.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 02:58 PM

You almost have it correct, Tom.
I do want a boat, but I want a friend to take care of it for me.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 03:01 PM

I want one of those hot, bikini-clad women I always see on boats.

Oh, and a good cheeseburger. And a nice, cold beer.

Now that I think about it, I don't need the woman....
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 03:02 PM

 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson

Now that I think about it, I don't need the woman....


There's that "need" word again.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 03:12 PM

to Bridgeman: Yes! Everything counts! Hole saws, forstener bits, brad points, chisel points, up cut, down cut, hammer drill bits, spade bits, et al.

Shop around for the cheapest bench you can find. I found one from Poland for $99. Then, I reinforced it and redrilled the metric dog holes. So, when I put the first router gouge in it, I didn't feel so bad.

And be careful with your "weekender" techniques. You could get very hurt.

Repeat after me: I want a table saw, I need a table saw. It's for my own safety and I'll work more precisley and efficiently.
Do it! Do it! Do it!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 03:16 PM

'til you're satisfied.....
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 03:25 PM

Whatever it is....
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 05:18 PM

I had no idea such a thing as a taper jig existed, let alone was available from LV. I had also never heard of a cabinet saw; researching that also answered the pending question about what the heck a "hybrid saw" was. Thanks !

So I guess maybe I don't need a workbench at all ;\)

re: the taper jig, if you extend the saw cut to the other end of the wood it seems to touch the little bracket thing that pushes the wood along with the jig. Are those brackets supposed to be sacrificial, or is there a good reason the photographer stopped in mid-cut ?
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 08:35 PM

 Originally Posted By: bridgman
I had no idea such a thing as a taper jig existed, let alone was available from LV.

This is going to be harder than I thought. Your homework for the next week is to spend two hours per night on the lv sight randomly clicking links. How the heck are you going to covet that which you do not know exists??

 Originally Posted By: bridgman
re: the taper jig, if you extend the saw cut to the other end of the wood it seems to touch the little bracket thing that pushes the wood along with the jig. Are those brackets supposed to be sacrificial, or is there a good reason the photographer stopped in mid-cut ?

I don't think its meant to be replaceable, otherwise they would list the cost of replacements. Unfortunately I havn't gotten past the coveting stage on this little jem because there is no [practical] place in my apartment to set up my table saw.

I keep thinking that the housing stupidity in this country will come to an end so I can remidy that situation, but it seems I vastly underestimate its 'strength'.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 04/26/10 11:37 PM

Since Sean bugged me about it, I just uploaded some pics of the bathroom project. The sink isn't installed yet, but I set it in place for the photos. The hole you can see in the floor behind the pedestal in the first two pics is now covered with a white register. The last pic shows the pink tile, though it looks more like tan in the pic.







You can't really see it in the pics, but the floor has a sandy texture to it and looks kind of like this:



Besides the sink, I still need to pick out towel rods and a tp holder, find a white cabinet to mount over the toilet, and mount a white shelf over the sink.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 04/27/10 05:16 AM

My latest creation, a simple laminate center that resembles a granite inlay with a Maple surround thaat is stained choclate in color. I was very surprised at how well it matched the color of the chairs:






Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/27/10 05:20 AM

Nice job to both of you!

Peter, your tile looks less pink than mine, unless that's just the photo.

Jay, very nice! The color combo works well!
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 04/27/10 08:55 AM

Nice work you guys!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/27/10 11:12 AM

I guess if you list your email address on your profile on some woodworking forums, you might occasionally get an email like I did:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Manager

How are you!

I am frack wang,sales manager of Xuzhou Baoqi Wood Product Co.,LTD from china.We are specializing in manufacturing and
exporting plywood products. I am glad to know that you are dealing in plywood products,so I send this email with the hope
of doing business with you.

Here are our product catalogue as below:

construction plywood: filmfaced plywood black film and brown film 1220*2440/1250*2500

commerical plywood: Okoume plywood,Bingangor plywood,pencil cendar etc

fancy plywood: Teak,walnut,Red oak, Maple,Cherry etc

Other species: MDF,Hardboard, blockboard etc

The specification could be upon your request.

I hope you could be interested in the above.It will be appreciated if you could give me a
chance to service for you.Thanks.


Best Regards
http://www.baoqiplywood.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/27/10 11:14 AM

I think I'll reply to let him know that spiritual messenger cats don't have rectums. That should get him scratching his head for awhile.....
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/27/10 12:02 PM

 Originally Posted By: BobKay

Repeat after me: I want a table saw, I need a table saw. It's for my own safety and I'll work more precisley and efficiently.
Do it! Do it! Do it!


In my opinion, there are very few 'rough' projects that you can't do with a decent tablesaw, a drill, and a few basic hand tools (chisels included).

If you Google "how to table saw" and "Table Saw Jigs" you will find a ton of articles on how to do many things you thought you needed other tools for, but don't. Mitres, dadoes (without a $100 dollar dadoe set,) grooves, rabbets, squaring wood, box joints, tenons, basic jointing can even be done if you build a jig... and many other surprising things.

A lot of times, all you need is the appropriate jig that is often built from scrap wood and when you see it, you go "Doh! That's so simple. Why didn't I think of that?"

Eventually, you will want a miter saw for quicker cuts but a table saw will do. Then you start to want to do more 'finished' pieces and you will wish for a planer for perfect sized and smooth wood. Then a router to add some curves and even to add new ways to do things that you used to do on the table saw, like dadoes. A band saw makes curves and shapes fun, and a drill press eventually simplifies many things, but I got along without one pretty well until very recently.

It is a slippery slope of never ending upgrades for sure, but I agree with Bob. A good table saw is like your first good set of speakers. Start there and build up the rest as you can.

Note:
I feel safe is saying this, not because I have so many years of expertise, but because I recently have gone through the same build up process over the years to the point I'm finally satisfied that I have all the basic tools I need. In fact, I've come full circle because I now want a better table saw. LOL!!!

P.S.
Although I don't neeeeed to, I'm buying a much nicer sliding, compound miter saw from a buddy of mine. Actually it's more of a trade as his price was a bottle of scotch.

Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/27/10 12:08 PM

I want a garage. All y'all can shut up.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/27/10 01:47 PM

Last year, a single outdoor parking space here went for 300k.
It's in an dark alley, but the pattern on the brick pavers is very, very nice.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/10 03:14 AM

Hmmm. For the price of a good table saw I could buy one of these ...

http://www.thebestadirondackchair.com/product_details.asp?id=67

... and skip the whole pending workbench/chair/saw/bottomless pit fiasco ;\)

Decisions, decisions...

Thanks for all the advice so far. I do have to agree that a table saw would make a big dent in all equipment requirements I have been complaining about. I already have a miter saw and enough firearms to cover drilling requirements between 1/4" and a couple of inches (stand further back for larger holes).
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/10 11:14 AM

Hmmm Bowmanville. Ok. Good. Unless he acquires some ballistic "drilling tools", I should be safe.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/10 04:30 PM

Wood shops always center around the table saw. It is the workhorse of the shop. A router table would be a close second place for me. I use the two every project I get into. If you buy wood in S2S, a planer and joiner would be the third and four choices.

If you do not find joy in working with wood, don't bother buying anything. Just have someone else make it for you and you'll be money ahead. If I sold all my 'stuff', I could buy no less than four of darn near everything I've ever made. However, woodworking helps me keep my sanity.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/10 05:04 PM

 Originally Posted By: michael_d
If you do not find joy in working with wood, don't bother buying anything. Just have someone else make it for you and you'll be money ahead. If I sold all my 'stuff', I could buy no less than four of darn near everything I've ever made. However, woodworking helps me keep my sanity.

Yeah, I guess I really need to decide if I enjoy woodworking, or just need the finished product. I never really considered whether I enjoyed building things or not - it was more along the lines of "building your own lightsaber" ie if you have and use certain things (like adirondack chairs) you are expected to have made them yourself.

I realize this was probably obvious to everyone but it wasn't obvious to me.

Thanks for all the advice and putting up with the dumb questions. Guess I'll go ahead and build a workbench and then think about whether I enjoyed it or not.

Oh, and Murph - when I make holes in things I always take care to point "down" not "east" ;\)
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/10 05:23 PM

 Originally Posted By: bridgman
Hmmm. I already have a miter saw and enough firearms to cover drilling requirements between 1/4" and a couple of inches (stand further back for larger holes).


I never thought of using firearms to make a hole in wood. The tearout's probably a bitch, though.

If you had a table saw, you could easily make a workbench. Also, a workbench isn't very useful if you're not big on hand-planing, sawing, etc. It takes up more footprint than a tablesaw (unless you have a 5' outfeed table like I do) and won't come in very handy if you're assembling a bookcase or a cabinet. A home made assembly/finsihing table (the biggest you can fit with overkill lighting) is preferable.

So, table saw (and you do not need a cabinet saw!), sliding dual compound miter and a router (table expands possibilities greatly) and you're in biz.

Seriously, all bigboy/bogtoy yap here aside, you could actually make a living with those three things. How do you think I got the $$ to get all the stuff I don't need?


Posted by: bridgman

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/10 06:32 PM

Rifles make an extraordinarily clean hole, even in metal. I was amazed the first time I shot a .303 at an intake manifold.

No the intake manifold was not attached to an engine at the time.

Shotguns definitely give you a ragged edge (probably requiring a rasp for initial cleanup) but have the advantage of instantly and infinitely adjustable hole size.
Posted by: Glitchy

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/10 06:41 PM

 Originally Posted By: bridgman
Rifles make an extraordinarily clean hole, even in metal. I was amazed the first time I shot a .303 at an intake manifold.

No the intake manifold was not attached to an engine at the time.

Shotguns definitely give you a ragged edge (probably requiring a rasp for initial cleanup) but have the advantage of instantly and infinitely adjustable hole size.


Years ago, I was doing a job out in the Ca desert (enviromental clean up) on an old 50's/60's JPL site for testing jet engines and I guess rounds. The 6"-8" holes thru the 1 1/2" plate steel, were very clean! The concrete bunkers were sortof a hint.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/10 06:47 PM

Back in WW2, those German 88's were so powerfull that on a light armoured vehicle, they'd often put a hole clean through one side and out the other before the shell exploded, or clean through a jeep WITHOUT exploding.
Posted by: RickF

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/10 07:02 PM

Build the workbench John!

I built a 13' x 28" deep workbench from 4x4s and 3/4" plywood several years ago and it comes in handy for just about anything I do in the garage, I love it ... It's also excellent for storing and collecting junk as well. ;\)
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/10 09:20 PM

If you’re set on building a bench, take the time and expense to make it right. You don’t need to make it out of butcher blocked hard maple, but you really should use hard wood. Oak works well and it’s fairly cheap. You can use fire or pine for the verticals, but don’t use it for anything else. Softwood will twist and bow on you and you’ll cuss at it every time you try to assemble something because it won’ be flat. I’ve done this three times now, because I went cheap twice. My current bench works very well. I build it 28” wide by 7’ and it’s about a half an inch shorter than my table saw so I can use it for an out feed table. On one side I have an open tray for ‘stuff’ I use all the time, like scraps of sandpaper, glue scrapers, straight edges. I built it sturdy as hell with 4” fir legs and 4" X 1" Red Oak for the table top support spreaders 12" O/C and 3/4 MDF screwed to the spreaders. I then use ¼” hard board for the top, screwed to the MDF and it's edged with oak. After a few months or so, I’ll just yard out the hard board and screw a new sheet down. This way I don’t feel bashful about beating the hell out of the top as if it was a pretty maple top. I do all my glue ups on this, stain on it, sand, port work on cylinder heads, file ring gaps, whatever. I also installed bench dogs and a screw on the bench, but I never use it. I usually just clamp my stuff down with quick clamps if I don’t want it moving around on me. I also have good, lockable casters so I can roll it out of the way. I buy my casters from Woodcraft, they are excellent.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/10 09:57 PM

A replaceable top is a great idea. I'll have to remember that if I'm ever in a place to do this sort of thing myself.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 05/11/10 12:53 PM

I finally finished the bathroom this Sunday. Got the sink drain part I needed and installed everything and caulked. Prior to this job, my caulking skills were pretty shoddy, but now a wet finger, rag, and bucket of water let me make for some smooth, clean lines. My wife went to Target for the accessories and now the room is complete. Kids are now kicked out of out bathroom so we won't be seeing toothpaste stains all over ours. \:\)
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 05/11/10 01:09 PM

I have been looking at plans from here. Once I have the mudding and paint done in the garage, a new bench and wall cabinets are on the build list. First up, I am going to build this to make ripping 4x8 sheets easier. They do have a fancier plan but I can't justify the cost to build the carriage and I like the simplicity and tilt out of the first one.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 05/12/10 12:54 PM

Traded a bottle of "The Glenlivet" to a friend for his 10" Sliding compound Mitre Saw & table to replace my non-sliding and sometimes less than perfect Ryobi.

It's just a "King" and it may be as old as the scotch I gave him so he probably got the better deal price wise but because it's an older model, the sliding pistons go through tubes that run the entire length underneath the cutting platform so there is absolutely zero wobble. Came with a good finishing blade and a table decked out with some plywood shelving too so in all, I'm pretty happy.

It's long cuts are way more accurate than my previous saw's short cuts. My old worked OK for what it was but even without sliding, there was some blade wandering that kept it less than accurate when you needed a perfect angle.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 05/13/10 08:50 AM

Request::
I'm looking for plans for a slightly more complex than average painters easel. Desired features would be.
- Folds down for better portability.
- Clamps the canvas board in place
- Fold down pallet
- Perhaps in the folding process it creates some storage for supplies.

Here is a picture of pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. I'll be using this pic to eyeball the construction if I can't find actual plans.Sorry for the large pic.



If you happen to run across actual plans, please pass them on, thanks.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 05/13/10 11:57 AM

I bought one like that from Costco years back for my father, I found this one on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-GRUMBACHER-F...4QQcmdZViewItem

Might be cheaper to buy one from here:

http://www.aswexpress.com/discount-art-supplies/online/2553/art-supplies/4

Just found this site, very cool:

http://www.artisteaselplans.com/arteasel/
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Got Wood? - 05/13/10 08:54 PM

I took a quick look around at table saws and the entry level ones look a bit flimsy. Am I better off looking for something big, solid, inexpensive and used ?

I ran across these two which seem to meet all the above criteria :

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-tools-equipment-Table-saw-W0QQAdIdZ192695885

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-...QAdIdZ204809234

Thoughts ?
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 05/13/10 09:11 PM

 Originally Posted By: bridgman


Thoughts ?

Those are some funny looking portable easles. ;\)

I would take a look at the first one. Looks like an old beaver saw (very well built). If possible you want a belt driven saw like the first. Generally the motors are more powerful and will do better with ripping or lage pieces of hardwood. The belt will also protect the motor from burnout in heavy use.

The arbour on some contractors saws can be quite out of square or have significant runout.

The contractors saw will do fine for light duty and occasional use though.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Got Wood? - 05/13/10 09:57 PM

Thanks, Fred.

Re: the easels, a couple of months ago I saw a great design for a folding gun rack (for shotguns on an outdoor sporting clay course) that looked like a few tweaks could turn it into a pretty fair easel. Had storage when folded down and everything. Will see if I can find it.

Murph, are you looking for "light and easy to carry" or "rock solid and easy to move on its built in wheels" ?
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Got Wood? - 05/15/10 10:44 PM

OK, I finally understand my troubled relationship with woodworking. Seems like I take great pleasure from designing things to make from wood, and enjoy using / showing off the finished product, but the bit in between (the "making sawdust" part) doesn't seem to do much for me.

Nevertheless, I just finished unloading a large carload of lumber (it's amazing what you can fit in the back of a Dodge Magnum) so I'll either be proudly posting pictures of workbenches and outdoor furniture over the next few weeks or you'll simply never see me in this thread again ;\)
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 05/15/10 11:22 PM

That's an interesting conundrum. Are you an architect? \:\)
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Got Wood? - 05/16/10 11:31 AM

Yeah, or at least the hotly debated software/hardware equivalent. That particular mix of likes and dislikes has always worked out really well in the professional world (assuming what you design actually *works*); it just doesn't seem to work so well in the garage.

I would love to say that I have a great eye for landscaping but no great love for implementing the designs, but when it comes to yardwork I think I'm just lazy.

Anyways, I'm going to try telling myself that I'm only building prototypes and see how that works out. The nice thing about prototyping is that you can use cheaper wood ;\)

Speaking of cheaper wood, the quality of construction lumber at the local Home Depot seems to have gone up dramatically; a couple of years ago the 2x4s and 2x6s were twisted, heavy with water and oozing pine sap, now they seem to be light, straight, and even claim to be kiln dried at more or less the same price as a few years ago.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 05/16/10 12:48 PM

 Originally Posted By: bridgman
Speaking of cheaper wood, the quality of construction lumber at the local Home Depot seems to have gone up dramatically; a couple of years ago the 2x4s and 2x6s were twisted, heavy with water and oozing pine sap, now they seem to be light, straight, and even claim to be kiln dried at more or less the same price as a few years ago.

They(HD) also seem more friendly this last couple of years...I don't think it has anything to do with all the Lowes stores popping up all over Ontario the last 2-3 years. ;\)
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 05/16/10 01:43 PM

Murph: I really think you'd have a hard time making a French Easel (that's it's official name). The telescoping legs alone would drive you crazy. Plus, it's gonna get all slobery anyway.

A half-french comes w/ a folding palette to accomoadte the smaller size, but no one I know liked the pallettes anyway. We usally made our own.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 05/16/10 01:45 PM

 Originally Posted By: fredk
 Originally Posted By: bridgman


Thoughts ?


The contractors saw will do fine for light duty and occasional use though.


I make cabinets for part of my living. I have done so with the same contractor's saw for 10 years. A really good one, or a hybrid, will do fine for anything but a production shop. Really.
Plus, who wants to have to deal with a 500 lb. gorilla if you don't have to. And spend 3x the $$$.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 05/16/10 06:00 PM

What saw do you have Bob?
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 05/17/10 11:49 AM

I have the Ridgid Contractor saw (mines an older version) and plan on building it into a larger table assembly like this once the garage is painted. Delta, General, are a few good names in belt driven saws, IMO. Busy Bee Tools sells a Craftex saw that looks to be of reasonably good quality for the money. Makita and Bosch sell a saw similar to mine that look good too.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 05/25/10 10:18 AM

The wind made kayaking too much like exercise over the long weekend so I spent most of it building this cedar lounger that I had been planning since last summer.



Fort those wondering what the odd wooden and strap contraption is on the wall behind it, it's a kayak rack with the arms in the up position to make for more room when they are not there.

I also finally stained the sand table I had posted long ago. In doing so, I quickly realized that the cats had already scratched the thing to pieces. I was going to resand and start over but the cats are not going anywhere so I'm going to call it "character" for now.


Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 05/25/10 10:30 AM

 Originally Posted By: bridgman
I took a quick look around at table saws and the entry level ones look a bit flimsy. Am I better off looking for something big, solid, inexpensive and used ?

I ran across these two which seem to meet all the above criteria :

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-tools-equipment-Table-saw-W0QQAdIdZ192695885

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-...QAdIdZ204809234

Thoughts ?


I have been away from the boards for a while but wanted to thank you for taking the time to find those links. Very Helpful.

And also, thanks Bob for the terminology lesson. That was very helpful in looking for more pictures for ideas and finally, thanks for the warning about it's complexity. ;\) Unfortunately, that only serves to encourage me. Luckily though, the wedding I planned on making this a gift for is now delayed another year so I will have lots of time to enjoy the bonfires that my failed attempts may produce.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 05/25/10 10:42 AM

Murph:
Both those projects look awesome! Was the lounger from a plan?
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 05/25/10 10:45 AM

Your garage must have smelled awesome while you were working on that lounger. I love the smell of cedar. Also, although I'm sure those scrapes look worse in person, they do add a bit of character to the table. \:\)
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 05/25/10 08:05 PM

Nice work, Andrew!
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 05/25/10 10:53 PM

Thanks all and yes, the smell of cedar in the garage was indeed awesome.

Mark,
My plan, so to speak, was a chair that we already owned for a couple of years and a tape measure. I'm pretty sure I could clean up all my scribblings over several sheets of scrap cardboard into something that might make sense to others, if you are interested.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 05/26/10 06:39 AM

Thank you for the offer, but it was really curiosity.

We have some wetlands in the backyard and if I were to ever try to enjoy myself by sitting out there unprotected, I'd be bitten head-to-toe by mosquitoes.

So, yes, to beat everyone to the punch: I wear a condom when I'm out there so I won't be unprotected.

We have a screened porch which works just dandy for me, but a lounger like that would take up too much space.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 05/26/10 12:01 PM

Well, that could have been more fun.

Eagerly awaiting Mark's 6,000th post.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 05/26/10 12:10 PM

Sorry to disappoint... it wasn't very epic!
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 05/26/10 02:22 PM

Epic fail?
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 05/27/10 10:46 AM

Some people love getting the latest gadgets to help them do their work more efficiently. Others, like the guy I'm linking to below, do things by hand just to hone their skills.

Check out this fully hand-tool-built double-dovetailed box: http://lumberjocks.com/Woodhacker/blog/5139
\:o
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 05/27/10 12:09 PM

Whoa. I wouldn't have the patience or skill to do the first set of dovetails without a more 'automated' jig. Much less cut it up and cut dovetails in my dovetails.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 05/27/10 12:25 PM

I was surprised he didn't use a dovetail saw to make the side cuts on the joint, then go to a fret saw to cut the bottom.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 05/27/10 12:28 PM

No need to fret about it Adrian \:\)
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 05/27/10 01:12 PM

HaHa! I saw what you're getting at.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Got Wood? - 05/27/10 05:31 PM

I guess I'm not cut out for woodworking. My first thought was that there must be a big market out there for peel-and-stick dovetails, mortices and tenons ;\)
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Got Wood? - 06/03/10 04:20 PM

OK, dumb question. When you want to draw out patterns for pieces that are a few feet long, what do you use for paper and where is the easiest place to find it ?

Note that I have much easier access to stores that sell farm supplies than to stores that sell art supplies.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 06/03/10 07:19 PM

A roll of butcher paper, maybe?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 06/03/10 08:17 PM

Bridg, try giving Currys Art Supply a call. They carry lots of art and drafting materials and have a location in Whitby on your side of T.O.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Got Wood? - 06/03/10 09:39 PM

Thanks guys. As long as I don't have to go into downtown TO, art supplies are fine ;\)

Butcher paper was my first thought but I had no idea if it even existed any more, now that meat comes in little plastic trays made from a quart of oil. If it still exists, guess I'll look for that first. Presumably I should look for a roll of butcher paper rather than just buying a side of beef and asking to have it wrapped in paper... then again summer's here and I haven't smoked any beef since... yikes, 2 years.

Edit - I guess the other option is to pick up a 2x4 sheet of cheap hardboard, draw directly on that then cut it out to make patterns. Definitely cheaper than a side of beef.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 06/04/10 12:45 AM

But a smoked hardboard sandwich is not nearly as delicious.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 06/04/10 02:13 AM

But certainly adds to the fibre intake!
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 06/07/10 04:25 PM

You would be better off with 1/4" MDF than hard board. You can shape it with a sander and have a nice edge for router bit bearings or guide bushings. I use it for patterns quite often. I gave up on paper years ago. It tends to move on you.... MDF and double sided tape works great.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Got Wood? - 06/07/10 04:31 PM

OK, will try that as well, thanks !

I already picked up the 1/8" hardboard but it was hardly a huge investment ;\)
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 06/07/10 04:38 PM

I read that as halberd, originally. That would be a very small weapon.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Got Wood? - 06/07/10 11:12 PM

Not if you were only 1/4" tall.
Posted by: Potatohead

Re: Got Wood? - 07/06/10 02:35 AM

Hey guys

I am bumping this thread because I need some help and/or advice.

I have an alder guitar body coming shortly which I want to stain translucent green. I tried to find some alder scrap around here somewhere but I guess I didn't look hard enough, I couldn't find any. So, I just went to Home Depot and picked up some knotty pine, as I read online that it stains similar to alder, other than being a slightly lighter colored wood.

Fast forward to today, the pictures below are really the best I have been able to get it. I have done the following:

- Wet the wood to raise the grain
- Sanded lightly with 120, then 220
- treated with Minwax pre-stain conditioner (water based)
- Sanded lightly with 220
- Applied stain (Minwax water based).
- Wipe off stain after about 2 - 3 minutes

The following is the result, but the grain looks weird to me. Keep in mind this is still wet with the second coat of color and no clear yet. The grain seems lighter than the actual wood, when in past experience with staining, it's usually the opposite. This is also just barely pressing the cloth to remove any stain, which is why there is a line or two in it. If I press hard, the area that are light green in the pictures go almost back to bare wood.

Am I doing something wrong, or is this just the pine at work? It looks ok I guess but it's not what I was picturing.








Posted by: Zimm

Re: Got Wood? - 07/06/10 12:38 PM

I would go with lacquer. Look at Luthiers Mercantile Internationals website. They have a detailed how-to on guitar finishing using KTM-9 lacquer. You can also look at the KTM-9 web page as they have several useful links.

good luck.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 07/30/10 03:41 PM

Need help.

I have a vintage Rockwell contractor saw with a 220v motor. I got it from my father-in-law. I am not a craftsman, but I do occasionally produce adequate results at DIY projects around the house.

Well, the fence basically disintegrated. Critical plastic piece that attaches to the hook for the back rail is shattered all to heck.

The current rails are heavy (cast iron?) and round. It does not seem that I can find "just a fence" for these rails.

It doesn't make sense for me to drop $400-500 on a fence system considering my expected level of use and the age of the saw.

It doesn't appear that I can get into an Incra, Vega, Biesemeyer, UniFence, etc. on my budget.

Plus, I'm actually pretty baffled by and skeptical of the process by which I'd install a whole new fence system including rails. I'm also concerned that the state-of-the-art brands mentioned above might not "fit" my saw.

I am pondering a Mule Accusquare.

Help?
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 07/30/10 03:58 PM

Having use the Incra for a while now, my suggestion is to suck it up and buy one regardless of your saw. As long as your table has two mounting holes on each end (front / rear), you can make it work. If you buy a new saw later, move the Incra to it. Amazon has them for $394 with free shipping. The draw back to the Incra is it takes up additional floor space and the T-bar sticks out quite a ways when ripped wide stuff. But damn, it sure took my wood working to a whole new level of perfection. I like it so much, I put one on my router table.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 07/30/10 04:13 PM

sh!t. I was afraid you were going to say something like that.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 07/30/10 04:16 PM

Is a 220v saw convenient for your location, etc?

If it were a cabinet saw and you thought you would make good use of it, I could see replacing the fence. For a "contractor-style" saw, I'm not so sure I'd put the money into it.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 08/02/10 08:24 AM

To me, 90% of what makes a good table saw is the fence and a solid miter gauge that slides without wobble. The rest is really just a frame for an electric motor and I find even cheaper saws have enough power to spin a blade well enough for a good cut.

If the "Vintage" part is something that is important to you, then why not spend a couple of hundred for an new fence. If you are not attached to the saw, then perhaps it's time to shop for good used saw. But remember, a really good table saw with a fence that won't make you angry, like mine does mad, will end up costing you wayyy more than a new fence, even used.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 08/02/10 11:29 AM

Well, I had a 220v outlet wired in the garage years ago, so it's as convenient as anything else that plugs in. Having the extra amperage definitely makes things go more smoothly; it seems like a very powerful motor.

I'll probably just bite the bullet and buy a Incra or a Briesemeyer fence system.

Thanks for the guidance, guys.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 08/10/10 03:40 PM

I FOUND A STRIPPER! FINALLY!

Just an FYI.

I am always unwilling to strip for a client. I'll do it for myself, but that's 'cause time and money aren't as important then.

I only said "yes" this time, because it was for a friend I've known since we were 11. He lives in a 100 yr old house with casings and moldings with profiles on top of profiles.

Peel Away #6 is my new best friend. Not entirely easy breezy, but the best yet. No elbow at all, just gentle scraping with proflie scrapers and I got off 4 layers of paint and at least as many coats of varnish(es). $60 a gal. Worth it all.

But I'm still never gonna tell another client that I can strip for them, too. Family and friends only.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 08/10/10 04:07 PM

Something to look forward to in Dwight.


mmmmm.... maybe not.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 08/10/10 04:38 PM

Canada's best strippers always came from Mississauga.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 08/10/10 04:48 PM

I had a really nice chat with one of them in Montreal. Is it me or is it just plain wierd to have a conversation about your hometown with a woman getting naked in front of you?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 08/10/10 04:56 PM

What if she was lap dancing to a guy from Big Bone Lick Ky, or Dildo NFLD....

"I want to tell you about Big Bone Lick...."
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 09/13/10 05:10 PM

For those of you "Woodies" out there w/o a real dust collection system, check out this amazing price.

The great Jet that I bought two years ago changed my life, my attitude about being in the shop, cleaning up, waiting for dust to settle or get sucked into ceiling mounted filter unit, just went on sale at Jet.com (and dealers??) for $200 less than I paid in '08. It's the only 115v unit out there w/ a steel filter cage that can pull 1100 cfm w/o needing 220v. And it's not 98" like most of the good ones. I think it's about 76.

Year after year, I bought toys instead. It should have been the first thing to come immed. after the table saw and dual-bevel slider 10 years ago.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 09/13/10 06:35 PM

I bought one of those a couple of years ago too, Bob. Model 1100 something or another, with the 1-micron filter and remote control (wish it was like the new RF ones, though!)

And just before the Axiom trip, bought the ceiling mounted air cleaner while it's on sale, too. Haven't done anything with it yet, it's still in the box. But I always told myself that I'd get one once I got all the asbestos out of the basement. (I didn't want one before, because anything with a fan would have stirred things up...!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 09/13/10 06:37 PM

BTW, Joyce easily OK'd that purchase right after I used the belt sander for a couple of hours with the basement door open to the kitchen.

Yup, next day she told me to buy one of them sawdust things.

Now I'm trying to figure out how to get an external amp to be her idea.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 09/13/10 07:06 PM

Tell her the extra heat the amp will produce will save you money on the heating bills this winter. smile
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Got Wood? - 09/13/10 08:57 PM

But let the house get really cold before you discuss it...
Posted by: Ray3

Re: Got Wood? - 09/13/10 09:40 PM

Ok, I admit it - I was totally fooled by the title of this thread.

I made a similar mistake a few years ago and that's why I own a DVD of "Free Willy"
Posted by: sonicfox

Re: Got Wood? - 09/14/10 04:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Ray3
Ok, I admit it - I was totally fooled by the title of this thread.

I made a similar mistake a few years ago and that's why I own a DVD of "Free Willy"


I don't quite know what you mean, Ray. Can you explain in detail? grin
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Got Wood? - 09/14/10 11:11 PM

And he's not even British.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: Got Wood? - 09/15/10 12:56 AM

I think fairway woods should be made out of wood. Therefore, I play with Powerbilt Citation Persimmon driver, 3 and 5 woods.

Titleist Tour Blades. I miss the Titleist Balata 90s.


I've seen Mark Johnsons's picture. He's had too much coffee.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 09/21/10 11:07 AM

Mike Jarvi makes a bad-ass one-piece bench.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3utt2Y5aH0
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 10/30/10 10:57 PM

OK, It's not necessarily wood-related, but at least it's a tool: Anyone have great ideas for uses for angle grinders?

Last time I visited my mom, she mentioned that the railing on her front porch (which she now relies on) hurts her hand because of it's heavy rust. It's embedded in the cement patio, so it's not coming out without redoing the whole thing. I figured a grinder is my best bet to get it in good shape before repainting.

This DeWalt seems highly rated.

I've never used one before and wonder how else I can make use of one to justify buying it.... Google tells me I can cut tile, remove mortar to re-point brick and sharpen my mower blade. There's gotta be more than that!

Ideas? Adrian? smile
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 10/30/10 11:15 PM

If you're thinking about other uses for a grinder once this job is done, I'd look at the variable speed 12 amp Makita grinders, either the 9565CV 5" or the 9564CV 4 1/2"....I'd take the 5" myself. This grinder has variable speed for various types of profiling(like diamond cutter profiling and hole drilling on marble/granite counter tops) which require much lower rpm's than regular grinders have. The advantage of the 5" over the 4 1/2" too, is that there are a number of 5" contour blades on the market for cutting through granite and roughting out for an undermount sink application. A variable spd grinder will run about $140-ish but offer more versatility than a reg grinder imo...Bosch also makes a VS grinder but I much prefer Makita. Check out Toolocity if you're interested in working on countertops/stone.

Mark, have you considered renting a sandblaster to take the rust off the railing?
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 10/30/10 11:44 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Anyone have great ideas for uses for angle grinders?

Last time I visited my mom…

I felt the need to isolate that part of your post. smile
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 10/30/10 11:48 PM

Sounds like a Hitchcock episode.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 10/31/10 06:53 AM

Hey Adrian:
No, I hadn't considered a sandblaster, because I figured the rental would cost as much as buying a grinder. I'll have to check out the VS ones.... I don't see myself cutting much granite, though, despite the state I exist in...

Peter, that sounds more "Oedipussy" to me, so "ewwww".
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Got Wood? - 10/31/10 08:10 AM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
pussy" to me, so "ewwww".


I thought I'd isolate this revelation grin
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 10/31/10 08:44 AM

grin
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 10/31/10 11:20 AM

I would second the sandblaster idea, it would be quicker and less back breaking. If you do go with the grinder, I would recommend a knotted wire brush to start then a sanding/flapwheel disc for all but the worst of areas.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 10/31/10 03:32 PM

I don’t like to advertise this ability, but I have spent several thousand hours behind a welding hood, using grinders and crawling around pipes and boiler tubes with mirrors. When friends find out that I am an “X” welder and boilermaker they come up with all kinds of things they would like me to do, so I just don’t tell them this about my past as I gave up that trade many years ago due to carpel tunnel, sooty snot, slag in my ears, digging crap out of my eyes, etc. So having said that, if you are set on buying a right angle grinder, I personanally would not buy anything but Milwaukie. I’ve tried them all and the Milwaukie is the only one that won’t trip or bun up with heavy or prolonged use. They are also better balanced for one handed operation and have a user friendly (RE: with gloves on) on / off switch that you don’t have to look for. I would get the 4.5” and pick up some flapper disks. The flapper disks will leave a nicely polished finish, depending on grit. You can also get 1/16” cut off disks, which come in very handy at times.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Got Wood? - 10/31/10 03:41 PM

Originally Posted By: michael_d
I don’t like to advertise this ability


I say the same thing all the time. Oh, wait, there's that "dis" prefix..........Dammit eek !
Posted by: CV

Re: Got Wood? - 10/31/10 05:03 PM

"I don't like to advertise dis ability," huh?
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Got Wood? - 10/31/10 06:56 PM

Advertise (promote) this ability (but I have a disability).

It was just a sporadic inane comment poking fun at myself. I see how it's ambiguous though smile .
Posted by: CV

Re: Got Wood? - 10/31/10 07:21 PM

Oh, I know what you were saying. I was just being a dork, which was a stretch for me.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Got Wood? - 10/31/10 08:00 PM

Oh man, a stretch? HEHEHE

Can't truly tell whether someone is being serious or facetious in some messages. Plus, my humor is warped when it's pertaining to my disability.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 11/01/10 12:19 PM

Originally Posted By: michael_d
I don’t like to advertise this ability, but ... balanced for one handed operation ... flapper ... nicely polished ... very handy


I just felt like quoting somebody out of context today. Thanks, Mike!
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 11/01/10 12:27 PM

I'm glad that I could be the source of so much amusement. Now I can consider this day's work complete and I can start drinking.

Charles, don't be so hard on yourself, you're a geek, not a "dork".
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 11/12/10 05:12 PM

I haven't bought a grinder yet, as the project likely will get pushed back to Spring. I was looking at face shields on Amazon, though, and I love the way some purchases get combined:


Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 11/12/10 05:13 PM

Must be close to Halloween.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 11/12/10 05:14 PM

If they didn't use the word "frequently", it would lose so much humor...
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 11/14/10 06:39 AM

I just wish they would standardize dust ports.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Got Wood? - 11/14/10 08:32 AM

Just quit putting your finger in it.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Got Wood? - 11/14/10 04:16 PM

Originally Posted By: CatBrat
Just quit putting your finger in it.


That's what she said...
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 01/05/11 10:30 AM

I just found the perfect table saw for townhome/condo/garageless/shopless people (like me):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ruwZdaPjbs
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Got Wood? - 01/05/11 10:35 AM

Hmm. When I think table saw, I'm thinking cutting big sheets of plywood, which this thing probably won't do. But it is interesting, though.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Got Wood? - 01/05/11 10:42 AM

That's very cool and innovative. It's the perfect tool for building tiny things with angles and notches smile.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 01/05/11 01:20 PM

Interesting idea, but judging by how fast and how much pressure you apply to push a cut through, I'd be very careful where my fingers are.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 01/05/11 02:21 PM

Quote:
I'd be very careful where my fingers are.

I keep mine at the ends of my hands.

They seems awfully convenient there.

Why do I think I'm getting a finger from Caledon right now? smile
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 01/05/11 03:15 PM

I'll mail it(my finger) to you.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 01/05/11 03:19 PM

Call me Mr. But-ter-fingers
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 01/05/11 03:47 PM

I have missed Emo.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 01/05/11 03:53 PM

Originally Posted By: pmbuko
I just found the perfect table saw for townhome/condo/garageless/shopless people (like me):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ruwZdaPjbs


Way cool thingy. Great for stock cuts. Not so much for sheet goods. But then, who's looking to cut sheetgoods in an apt./ twnhse, etc. I'll bet you can snarf a decent port. tab. saw for less than this machine. I didn't notice any dust collection either. A huge problem in one's studio apt. BridgeCity gets consistenetly good reviews.

Just go get it, Peter, and report back to us.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 01/05/11 04:26 PM

I loved Emo's album, but I've never seen UHF.

I think that saw runs $900..... (!)
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 01/05/11 04:47 PM

There are way cheaper ways to cut a finger off.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/11 02:52 PM

OK, I need a new circular saw and you need a new subtopic as this thread has been sadly dormant since January.

7 1/4 blade. 15 amp minimum.
Price? -- An essential tool but not one I use a lot so preferable under $200 Canadian. At least after sale pricing.

Things I need in a saw besides obvious things like 'decent quality' and 'power'.
---------------------------------
1. Most importantly, a good base that feels solid at every depth setting and bevel angle. I've been playing with them in stores this weekend and some models seem a bit loose when angled.
2. A good view of the blade from all angles. I can't stand not seeing the blade from the right side, when needed.
3. 56 degree bevel angle
4. Positive stops for common angles on the depth and bevel sliders, assuming they are accurate. Not a 'must have', but would be a 'nice to have'.
5. A simple but often missing feature. Engineered to not blow all of the dust up your nose.

Things that are not as important.
-------------------------------------
- This is not a tool I tend to use for long periods at a time so weight is not a big deal for me as opposed to someone who does a lot of rough carpentry for a living.
- The blade it comes with. I already own several blades of various types so if the stock one is not top notch, I'm not too concerned.

All opinions, experiences, stories of lost digits, etc. will be very much appreciated.

Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/11 03:24 PM

I'd go for one of the worm drive saws from Dewalt, Skil, Bosch ect....yah, they weigh more and cost more than a sidewinder, but they're stronger and torquier imo. I've got a dewalt hypoid-gear similar to the worm drives, it glides through 2x lumber like nothing. Only complaint is, it's got a higher centre of gravity than the worm drives due to the configuration of the motor/hyp gears. A lot depends on what you're primarily using it for...lumber I'd go with the worm gear, plywood or boards you might prefer a sidewinder as they're lighter(not inferring lighter is necessarily better though, I in fact, find the heavier worm/hypoid gear saws to be more controllable...personal pref).

Hmmm...after checking, I think the max bevel angle on these saws belongs to the Dewalt worm drive at 53*.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/11 05:54 PM

Magnesium Skill worm drive is by far the best and what you will find at most construction sights. I hate direct drive circular saws. They tend to kick back. The mag Skill is light enough to use with one hand, all day long. I have one as well as a brute Milwaukee. The Milwaukee is rarely used.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/11 09:52 PM

The Skil is the "original" worm drive, but nearly every professional review I came across rated the hypoid Dewalt(DW378) as the superior saw. Alas, Dewalt has replaced it with the worm driven 535 recently.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/29/11 11:10 AM

Well, now that the rough boys have weighed in, a little opposition is in order.

I have had a Milwaukee worm drive for over 20 years. It weighs north of 16 lbs. When I encounter need for it, its use is apparent--- and rare.

It's kind of difficult to mention "circular saw" and "accurate" in the same sentence. With a really good one, you'll get great, accurate cuts. But, never rely on a circ saw's tool markings for accuracy.

Use it correctly: proper blade depth, use a rip guide, stand where you should, don't over-reach, have the work properly supported, etc. and you'll be fine. Spend way less, too.

I've had several, but I'll go for my Porter Cable 7.25" anytime. It's the only one available for lefties. I'm R-handed, but I prefer the L-hand model (as do some friends), because I can keep sight of the cutline more readily. It also has one of the biggest base plates around.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/29/11 11:29 AM

Can't comment on reviews, I don't read them. People who have time to write reviews are not out working. Like I said, Skill is what you find at the construction sights. They are comfortable to use and the magnesium saws are very light. I've seen a few of the Dewalts, but they are the exception, not the norm. The Milwaukee is reserved for the 4" wide stuff because they will cut through just about anything - but they are too heavy to use all day.

I do not use these saws for anything but construction work where 1/8" is good enough and it's usually at a remote sight with generators and bang boards for power and a pickup for the break table. I do not cut on saw horses either. I prop the board up on the crook of my foot / ankle and let the weight of the saw do the work (keeping the cut at least 18" or so away from my leg).

For any sort of accuracy, I use my Dewalt 12" compound miter saw, and then the table saw for even better accuracy.

Circular saws are crap for accuracy. That's not what they were designed to do unless you want to move to a Festool at about $1000.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/29/11 11:58 AM

Originally Posted By: michael_d
I do not cut on saw horses either. I prop the board up on the crook of my foot / ankle and let the weight of the saw do the work (keeping the cut at least 18" or so away from my leg).


Michael, you do such beautiful woodworking with your hands, but you should value your other body parts as highly. I understand that you (and a few of other "freestylers" I know) have managed to do tool acrobatics without consequences for years or decades.

More than one of them has already had their date-with-destiny moment. Luckily, I've never been around on those days to witness it.

I needn't wish you any skills, you're too competent already. But I do, quite sincerely, wish you the best of luck in keeping your future free from harm.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 03/29/11 03:21 PM

I've been really happy with my Rigid 7 1/4 saw. It has some nice quick bevel features.

http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/R3200-Circular-Saw/EN/index.htm
Posted by: NDinUSA

Re: Got Wood? - 03/29/11 09:23 PM

I'll second BobKay's recommendation. Porter Cable is a good choice. I like the Porter Cable's base plate too. I use the Porter Cable to size panels on the floor (even though I have a Jet cabinet saw). The Porter Cable's base plate rides perfectly against a saw guide.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 03/30/11 08:06 AM

Thanks all! I knew I'd get lots of great information.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Got Wood? - 03/30/11 01:21 PM

I spit on my tile cutter blade cause that's how I roll..... Just sayin'.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/30/11 02:42 PM

I was looking under the "Forum List" and saw....

"Got Wood? (Fallen&can'tgetup)"!!!

...that's funny raht there.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Got Wood? - 03/30/11 07:02 PM

HAHAHAHA!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/15/11 07:52 PM

Murph!!! do you want a Dewalt DWS535 worm drive saw for only $149!!! check your pm's!!! yuh no good, tree bark chewin'.... laugh
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/15/11 07:54 PM

Murph only checks his PMs once in awhile. He was last online on the 11th.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/15/11 08:00 PM

Pm on April 2nd...don't know how long the saw is on sale for, or if he already bought one. It's on sale locally.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/15/11 08:35 PM

Adrian, just buy the last one! smile
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/15/11 09:51 PM

laugh
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/18/11 09:55 AM

Thanks for thinking of me Adrian. Yes, I suck at spotting that flashy envelope thingie. It's almost like I'm color blind to it, yet I know I am not.

Wouldn't you know, that is the exact model I bought and payed about 60.00 more for it saddly and that was a sale price. As mentioned in my return PM, it is being returned. It has developed a very nasty noise after just a few light uses and sounds like it is ready to blow it's parts out through the casing.

Even though I have been away a week, I checked and it is still on sale at Mississauga hardware. I may just do a return instead of an exchange and order it after all, depending on shipping costs.

I'm also looking at the Makita 5007MG Magnesium saw now that I have time to reconsider. I have talked to a couple of contractor/carpenter friends of mine and they both HIGHLY recommend this saw. They buy worm drives for the heavy lumber work at construction sites but prefer this saw for home type use as it's a lot lighter but the quality and ease of use is equally high.

That being said, they did agree that you can't beat a worm drive for all day heavy cutting. They also agreed that Dewalt (the contractor grade stuff, not the cheaper home lineups) seem to last the longest on the worksights. Much longer than Skil, if really roughly treated.

At Adrian's sale price, I'd actually end up paying more unless a sale pops up so I'll likely be sticking with the dewalt.

I looked at the Skil models too but locally could only find the $210 dollar model and it wasn't included in the sale at the time I needed one right away.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/18/11 04:45 PM

It's still on sale, Andrew, although some guy from N.H. was trying to buy out the remaining units according to the salesman laugh . The Skil has been the worm drive standard for a number of yrs, the only complaints I've read on them are usually to do with the base being somewhat subpar/flimsy.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/19/11 08:06 AM

Traded the old in for a new Dewalt last night, same model. The lady at the service desk gave me an additional $20 gift card for "not being cranky about returning a tool like the last guy." whom I might add, was conveniently still in earshot.

After that brilliant display of vengeful sarcasm that happened to result in my benefit, there was no way I could ask for a return and buy elsewhere.

Sometimes life is fun.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Got Wood? - 06/03/11 03:50 PM

Just bought this Paslode cordless framing nail gun today. This ought to make my home projects go a lot smoother (I hope). I'm no good at all with a hammer. Lot's of memories of missing the nails with it.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 06/04/11 11:05 AM

You've never given me any reason to hate you, Brian, so don't start now.

I have so much invested in compressors and air tools, that I can't justify the $$, but they are tres cool. Have fun!
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Got Wood? - 06/05/11 01:52 PM

With the assistance of many pneumatic and electric tools, I just finished building a mantel for the fireplace in our living room. Mrs. Classic has been bugging for years for the thing and I finally caved. I'm having trouble with posting pics directly from our Mac site, so if anyone (ahem, ... Peter...) can help educate me in this regard, I'd appreciate it. Any way, here is the link to the site. Only 3 pics to scroll thru...
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 06/05/11 02:20 PM

The "easiest" way I grab direct links to images hosted on a me.com site it to use the Web Inspector that's part of Safari's Developer mode. I was able to grab links to your pics with it. Unfortunately, you can't show picture in your post since the URL doesn't end with an image file extension.

http://web.me.com/southernvogue/The_Man_Room/Photos_files/Media/IMG_2551.jpg?derivative=web

http://web.me.com/southernvogue/The_Man_Room/Photos_files/Media/IMG_2556.jpg?derivative=web

http://web.me.com/southernvogue/The_Man_Room/Photos_files/Media/IMG_2558.jpg?derivative=web
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 06/05/11 02:21 PM

Looks great, btw. smile
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 06/05/11 02:23 PM

Scott, looks good!

I love the wood flooring, too.
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Got Wood? - 06/05/11 03:05 PM

Originally Posted By: St_PatGuy
Scott, looks good!

I love the wood flooring, too.


Thanks! Santos Mahogany. Got it on "clearance" from Lumber Liquidators jsut after Katrina. For a product marked clearance in the showroom, the data of manufacture on the box was 4 days before it arrived at my house, hence the tremendous cupping. Not happy about that, but we just tell everyone it's "hand carved" wink
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Got Wood? - 06/05/11 03:07 PM

Peter, thanks! And thanks!... That's what a kept getting, too; non-extension ending links that wouldn't show the image directly. eliminating the rest of the phrase results in nothing...

Thanks again.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 06/06/11 12:39 AM

Freaking Wow, Scott!
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Got Wood? - 06/06/11 07:21 AM

Thanks, Tom. It only took 4 extra trips to get more lumber due to the cutting mistakes, making the project ~$100 more than it should have cost. I was used to single profile crown molding and unknowingly picked up some double profile. It's supposed to cut down on the scrap. Supposedly all one has to do after a corner cut is flip the board over and cut the opposite bevel and the scrap is a 1/2" wide sliver rather than a 5" wide "V" shaped scrap. Who Knew? Apparently not me! The other expensive mistake was the dentil piece at $30 a stick, I marked the top of the board for the width I needed rather than the bottom... All rookie moves, but I haven't done wood working like this in over 5 years. The finished product looks nice and Mrs. Classic couldn't be happier - 5 years of hinting and bugging finally paid off for her.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 06/06/11 07:33 AM

Originally Posted By: BobKay

I have so much invested in compressors and air tools, that I can't justify the $$, but they are tres cool.


You're crazy.
That gun doesn't look anything like Tre Cool or multiples of him.


Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 06/06/11 08:49 AM

Hey Scott, that looks beatiful! Nice job!
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 06/06/11 10:19 AM

Great, Scott! Super pro design/build. Got it all, ogees, crowns, dentils, flutes, rosettes.

Can I spec stuff out and just send it to you to make?

And, in New Orleans, isn't a wet bar a redundancy?
Posted by: cb919

Re: Got Wood? - 06/06/11 11:22 AM

Great looking work around the fireplace Scott. Nicely done!

To bring things back to a more basic level, I am halfway done a pergola on my deck. Here's a pic of some basic 2x4 construction:


The boards running perpendicular overhead will be added later this week or next weekend. While it's pretty low tech I am happy with the way it's shaping up so far.

Cheers,
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 06/06/11 01:46 PM

The technology is 2ndary to the result, which looks great, Dan.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 06/06/11 04:26 PM

Scott, very nice job

Dan, the pergola looks good.
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Got Wood? - 06/07/11 12:07 AM

Originally Posted By: a401classic
With the assistance of many pneumatic and electric tools, I just finished building a mantel for the fireplace in our living room. Mrs. Classic has been bugging for years for the thing and I finally caved. I'm having trouble with posting pics directly from our Mac site, so if anyone (ahem, ... Peter...) can help educate me in this regard, I'd appreciate it. Any way, here is the link to the site. Only 3 pics to scroll thru...

I quite like the flooring.
What kind of wood is that?
in this thread about getting wood...
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 06/07/11 01:40 PM

Nicely done Scott.
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Got Wood? - 06/07/11 05:33 PM

Hi Chess!

It's Bellawood's Santos Mahogany sourced from Lumber Liquidators. This is the 3/8" thick solid t&g. Very hard and therefore brittle - carfeful nailing required. Also, allow a couple of extra weeks to acclimate. We wound up with bad cupping and a few blow outs due to the expansion. All in all I'd do it again without hesitation - but I'd also let it get happy in my humid garage for a couple of weeks before installing.
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Got Wood? - 06/07/11 05:35 PM

Thanks Mike. And belated Happy BDay!
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Got Wood? - 06/10/11 02:38 PM

That Bellawood is describing their wood surface coating as a 100 year, aluminum oxide finish.
Our problem, like many others, we have dogs.
Dog nails DESTROY wood floors.
BUT, most laminate products have an aluminum oxide surface which the nails cannot penetrate.

If Bellawood puts that surface over top of real wood, then i'm already a fan of the product (assuming #2 that they buy wood from sustainable source producers).
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Got Wood? - 06/12/11 09:14 AM

When we bought ours, the boxes said 50 year protection, so maybe they have made some improvements, but I think it has a lot to do with the hardness of the wood underneath the coating. This santos mahogany is the hardest wood I've ever worked with and the area at our computer desk is showing signs of indentations and light scratches, but the surface coating is holding up well. We have some neighbors that also installed Bellawood flooring - cherry I think - and they have a dog. Even with the hard coating, their floor is trashed.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 06/12/11 10:46 AM

I'm in tons of different houses every year. I see lots of surfaces that surprise me or disappoint me.

With some exceptions, if a product has a name that prefixes the word 'wood,' one should pause. Screw Bob Vila. He's getting 6 figures a year for his name on that product alone! I'd shill for covering my floors in 3" of dryer lint for six figures---every year!

In the long run, the real thing will give you lots more options in the future to address its eventual (and inevitable) finish-wear problems.

Also, real (solid-3/4") wood that's a bit beat up will still look better than a mfgr'd. product equally distressed. Or go with something that looks good beat up, like Southern Yelllow Pine, or reclaimed, etc.

And remember, the darker the wood (or stain color), or the glossier the finish, the more it will show scratches and gouges.
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Got Wood? - 06/12/11 11:34 AM

Originally Posted By: a401classic
When we bought ours, the boxes said 50 year protection, so maybe they have made some improvements, but I think it has a lot to do with the hardness of the wood underneath the coating. This santos mahogany is the hardest wood I've ever worked with and the area at our computer desk is showing signs of indentations and light scratches, but the surface coating is holding up well. We have some neighbors that also installed Bellawood flooring - cherry I think - and they have a dog. Even with the hard coating, their floor is trashed.

And hence the problem with dog nails and any wood product (you should see our low window sills at the front of the house).

There are only two ways that i see around the problem.
Either you have a light coloured floor such as the maple (or other wood unstained) such that the dog nail scratches won't show up against a dark finish; or you get a laminate floor.

It is likely we will choose the laminate flooring since we will always have a dog and won't be putting in a light colour wood. We put laminate in the basement and people have asked if it was real wood. It has a surface texture that is deceiving. It is a Tarkett 'hand scraped' product.

Now what to choose when we change out our present all wood windows. Interior colours of PVC are limited to white or almond, neither of which goes with our house, or we get all wood again or a wood laminate interior finish (again subject to dog nails on the lower windows).
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 06/12/11 12:03 PM

Then again, there's always marble, granite, tile, slate, etc. You could even terrazzo the sills. Concrete?

Chess, maybe you don't have a materials dilemma. Maybe you have a canine behavior dilemma?

You could do 'em in wood and keep an 8' length of matching wood, already finished, around.

Cut fake top sills so that they fit really snuggly over the real sills, or 18 ga. 'em in. When they get trashed, flip 'em over. When that gets ruined, go cut off another length and replace.

Other solutions:

*Rubber-bottomed knit mittens
*Adopt a very short or disabled dog
*Learn to appreciate the design possibilities of barbed wire.
*Board up the windows, only 1/2 way though

A final serious solution: Paint. It's the easiest thing to quickly and completely repair.

Ulitmate solution arrived at by having four: Get over it. All of it. You live with a dog!
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Got Wood? - 06/14/11 12:19 PM

Originally Posted By: BobKay
Then again, there's always marble, granite, tile, slate, etc. You could even terrazzo the sills. Concrete?

Chess, maybe you don't have a materials dilemma. Maybe you have a canine behavior dilemma?

You could do 'em in wood and keep an 8' length of matching wood, already finished, around.

Cut fake top sills so that they fit really snuggly over the real sills, or 18 ga. 'em in. When they get trashed, flip 'em over. When that gets ruined, go cut off another length and replace.

Other solutions:

*Rubber-bottomed knit mittens
*Adopt a very short or disabled dog
*Learn to appreciate the design possibilities of barbed wire.
*Board up the windows, only 1/2 way though

A final serious solution: Paint. It's the easiest thing to quickly and completely repair.

Ulitmate solution arrived at by having four: Get over it. All of it. You live with a dog!

Oh i hear you Bob.
We've thought about all these options.
Unfortunately dog training only goes so far unless you have 8h a day to make a police dog type dog. Keeping them from occasionally putting paws up on a low lying window as rabbits, squirrels and birds run by is a tough thing to train into a creature whose nature is to chase these things.
Knowing that is why we are trying to consider some more sturdy options for the sills and trim of the affected windows as they get replaced over the next few years.

Wood doesn't work as it splinters, although fairly easy to repair. Our daughter took a splinter under the fingernail the other day so we really have to consider something to avoid mishaps with the younger son. That aside, wood windows need alot of exterior maintenance compared to anything else and they are the most expensive; so that option is just not going to happen.
PVC is tough but limited for interior colours.
A wood veneer over PVC (what they term here as a hybrid window) is likely going to be our choice since small repairs are easy and in the long term, a new veneer could be placed overtop, or the whole sill replaced while keeping the window pane (reduced cost compared to replacing the whole window).

Selection of household finishes has in part revolved around having dogs. The problem has never been options for colours or style but usually more related to material type (until i started looking at the limited options for windows).
I quite like some of the laminate floors. Some look very real and also have texture. Although a real wood floor still looks like the better wood in comparison, i'll take a laminate floor instead because i would rather have a dog than a pristine looking real wood floor.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 11/16/11 08:24 AM

Question because I never worked with Cherry before.
I thought that might get your attention.

I am building a large frame for a friends oil painting, 36x42ish. She wanted it created in cherry which I have never worked in before. I picked out the best board I could find but when I planed it clean, I realized what a strong variation there is in color in cherry wood. The light and dark areas have a really strong contrast.

She choose Cherry because she wants a very particular particular wood/stain color that she saw on a much smaller photo frame but I can't see how she is going to be able to get even coloring on this much larger project now matter how I plan my cuts.

I'm leaning on a tung oil or shellac to highlight the contrasting colors instead of trying to hide it (which will likely be unsuccessful with a stain.) This will give it more of a funky look but the painting is a bright, funky, modern art kind of deal anyways.

A high gloss black paint was also suggested for the classy look but I could have used cheap old high density MDF for that. In the end it will be her choice.

Thoughts?

Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 11/16/11 09:33 AM

So this is your cherry cherry?

That's it. Got nothing helpful. Bob will be along to make us all feel inadequate soon anyway.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 11/16/11 11:56 AM

Murph: Unless you choose a fairly perfectly colored piece of cherry, you're gonna get color variations that can run from cream to brown.

The best way to color it is with wood dyes, not stains.
If you want more info about dyes/stains, PM me.

Shellac will change the cherry (depending on the shellac's base color). It usually adds (amber) yellow, thus making cherry look orange (eeew).

I have made frames (and some none-too-simple ones) out of MDF. If you mud all the cut edges with a vinyl spackle (like Crackshot) and sand them before priming, you can achieve an amazingly seamless look that will never reveal itself as MDF. Then you can do black or whatever color you like. (Or just use poplar or maple instead of MDF and make your life easy.)

Coloring wood is more difficult than most woodworking projects.

i.e.: sand up to 180 grit; 1st dye (One color dye or stain usually doesn't look natural), sanding sealer, sand, stain or 2nd dye, sanding sealer, sand, 3 coats of wipe-on poly, steel wool and wax
(not Butchers or any floor wax). Viola! [sic]

MDF and paint is lookin' awfully good, now, eh?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 11/16/11 12:06 PM

Lotta work.

Is she cute?
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 11/16/11 12:12 PM

MURPH! Your order's in!

Where do you want us to put those road-to-hell "good intention" pavers?
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 11/16/11 01:01 PM

Thanks Bob,
Great advice there. I definitely don't want any "eww" coloring.

In a larger piece like a table or a headboard, the changing color would look very nice but in the thinner strips for the frame, it will look out of place.

I think I'll show her some dyed (thanks for that hint too)scraps where there is a sharp band of contrasting colors and let her decide. I have some old Wood Essence, Bordeaux colored dye from a corner table this spring. (Don't laugh, it's what they wanted.) It's close to the color she wants and will let her see the effect.

Yes, life would be simpler if we didn't let the customer/friend decide what they wanted. It would be great if I had as much knowledge as you then I could at least try to lean them in the right direction before I'm half way into it, but I'm just a newb who says yes to anything because I really enjoy building stuff.

And Mark,
She is certainly not uncute, but technically it is for her daughter who is also not uncute but is underage.


Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 11/16/11 02:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Murph
I definitely don't want any "eww" coloring.


Bob just really has a thing against orange-colored wood.

Don't you, Bob?

(Bob came up the other day and decided my orange-tinted tongue and groove in my kitchen has to go!) smile
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 11/16/11 03:25 PM

Ha! When we first bought our waterfront land we built a small cottage like house on it while we saved for what we really wanted. It also had had tongue in groove flooring that ended up much more orange than we wanted. Wasn't bad for a cottage type decor but I'll concur with Bob, it has to go.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 11/16/11 03:27 PM

I've always thought that it looked like it belonged in a cabin in Maine, but always felt it would be sacrilege to paint the wood. Plus, Joyce always liked it.

Now that Bob called it Orange, I think she'll be good with it going as well!
Posted by: Joe_in_SC

Re: Got Wood? - 11/16/11 06:16 PM

I work with a lot of cherry. It's one of my favorite woods, and I would never stain it. The lighter sapwood is not considered a defect so there will usually be some on most boards. For something like a frame where the pieces you need are relatively narrow, just rip off the light sapwood and use it for firewood. Cherry with a natural finish like tung oil will darken over time to a beautiful rich color. If you try to stain the sapwood to match, the color won't change and eventually it will be very obviously different.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 11/17/11 09:46 AM

Thanks Joe.

Your advice would be sound but sound I'd have to buy another 4 boardfeet of wood to avoid all the sapwood for this project and her budget is slim. That would be another $50 to $60 dollars. Had I been more experienced, I would have known to factor the waste into my original estimate. She is just paying for materials as I'm doing it just for fun. Live and learn.

I may have a working solution though. My sister-in -law is also a painter. I may paint this one (albeit a waste of nice cherry) and give it to her as a Christmas present and then build a second out of another wood more suitable for thin cuts of wood.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 11/17/11 09:47 AM

I would think it would depend on how you cut it. I happen to like multi-colored wood.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 11/17/11 10:57 AM

Originally Posted By: Joe_in_Ct
I work with a lot of cherry. It's one of my favorite woods, and I would never stain it. The lighter sapwood is not considered a defect so there will usually be some on most boards. For something like a frame where the pieces you need are relatively narrow, just rip off the light sapwood and use it for firewood. Cherry with a natural finish like tung oil will darken over time to a beautiful rich color. If you try to stain the sapwood to match, the color won't change and eventually it will be very obviously different.


Right on, Joe! And cherry is uber UV sensitive. Leave a book there for a few months and you'll always know where it was.

Totally agree about coloring certain areas and not others showing as it ages, especially with chehwy, since it changes color so much over time.

Problem is that you're trying to match a particular existing wood color that she likes.
Hellbound!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 11/17/11 11:02 AM

Hey Bob-
What's that trick for darkening Cherry where you leave the wood enclosed with an open jar or dish of __________ ?
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 11/17/11 11:04 AM

JP's urine?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 11/17/11 11:24 AM

Nah. That's a slurry of drug samples and Alfredo making it too unpredictable.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 11/17/11 11:39 AM

Good point! No two Alfredos are ever the same.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 01/22/12 12:31 PM

I'm looking to build a new cabinet for my disc duplicators and printers. This was my original rough idea, though I think I've decided to build a cabinet from scratch rather than modify my existing setup as this drawing shows. I bought a monitor arm mount to install on the outside left side of the cabinet so I can keep the top of that lateral file cabinet to the left uncluttered...as well as getting the monitor to eye-height while standing. The arm will allow me to push the monitor flat against the side of the cabinet when not in use. For reference:



So, I thought it might be a good idea to also get a keyboard/mouse shelf mounted on the side as well, but I can't seem to find what I'm looking for. If the mounting plate (on the LCD end) of an LCD mounting arm could be rotated back to a horizontal position, I could mount a board on there to hold a keyboard and mouse. But I've never seen an arm that would allow the TV/monitor to, in essence, face straight up, so I don't think that will work either.

So, in thinking about it, I came to the conclusion that I really only need that "board" to pivot out....then back to being flat against the side of the cabinet. So, I came up with this:



The small "block" above and below the shelf would, of course, need to be tight to the board so that the board wouldn't droop from slop at the joint. But...if I make those blocks tight, there will be wear in the joint over time. I'm thinking that if there were a low-friction material that I could install on the friction points, I can keep it all tight without the problems.

Any ideas/thoughts on the design itself? Any ideas, specifically, for keeping this tight to avoid the droop without the problems associated with doing that?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 01/22/12 12:40 PM

Have you considered using a trunk hinge, Mark? they usually have one long narrow arm combined with a squarer mounting face. If you use blocks of wood, a couple of nylon washers might work for you.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 01/22/12 12:46 PM

Adrian, are you thinking something like this?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 01/22/12 01:04 PM

Maybe I should have referred to them as strap hinges.

Like these.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/18/12 02:15 PM

So guys, I'm finally starting a little shop. Bought a Craftsman table saw off of craigslist yesterday, and now I'm looking at circular saws and shop vacs. Any preferences in either arena? I'd like to stay fairly cheap (say less than $200, 300 for both combined), and I need to be able to cut 4x4s and 2x6s at this time.

Here's the project:
http://www.sunset.com/garden/backyard-projects/ultimate-raised-bed-how-to-00400000011938/
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/18/12 02:32 PM

Of course, finding the lumber is proving to be surprisingly difficult, at least since we're looking for redwood or cedar. ?!
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Got Wood? - 03/18/12 02:33 PM

I made 2 raised gardens in my backyard about 12 years ago. Using this kind of lumber seems like a preferred way to go, I used treated landscape logs. It's held up fairly good, but I used long spikes that are impossible to get out. The wood is getting old and the top row has rotted. Probably need to use my reciprocal saw and cut downward into pieces and remove. Then immediately build back up using some wood like in your photo.

I placed landscaping cloth on the ground, and lined it with plastic (sides only) before filling with dirt, to keep any chemicals in the wood from leaching into the good soil.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/18/12 03:18 PM

Ken, I bought a Ridgid vac a few years ago after (I think) Consumer Reports rated it a Best Buy. I've been very happy with it. It has large wheels that can roll over a cord, doesn't tip, the hose doesn't pull out... all those simple things that caused me much frustration with my older Craftsman.

The other thing that always pi**ed me off was the stiff hose (insert joke here) that came with both of them. I bought an upgraded hose that flexes much easier, is heavier duty, and is longer than the original.

I'm no help with the circ saw; I don't use them much. I've got an old SkilSaw and a couple of battery-operated Ryobis that came with different tool kits. The Ryobi's are handy for a quick, low-demand cut only.... I would go with a corded saw for my first one. (Saves the cost of batteries, too).
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 03/18/12 04:56 PM

This looks like a circular saw-only job. Much easier to do outdoors and to manage longer lumber. I say this from experience trying to make my job-site table say do more than it was designed to do.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/18/12 07:00 PM

When Murph was asking a few months ago, I think that the Porter Cable got the most votes, though many good brands were suggested.

I like the PC, because it's available for right or left handed.
I'm a righty, but I like that a lefty saw lets me see the cut line better. It also has one of the largest base plates around, so it doesn't tend to rock. Street $$ is about $135.

Cheap tools can torment you like learning to play on a cheap guitar. They will fight you and the results will be inferior.

Welcome to the bottomless pit of tool desires, Ken!!

Edit: And yes on the Ridgid vacs. Be sure to choose one that accomodates bags. With a bag, the filter never gets clogged, nor does the dust that it doesn't catch blow out the exhaust.
Yes also on Mark's better hoses (the ones with steel coil ribbing). Their only Achilles heels is the power switch, but they're easy to replace (about $8) after removing 26 screws.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Got Wood? - 03/18/12 07:18 PM

I bought a Porter Cable circular saw a month ago from Lowes for $85. I've not used it a lot, but seems to be a good one.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/18/12 08:07 PM

Ordered a Porter Cable. Thanks, guys!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/18/12 08:18 PM

Mark, is this it? http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-WD1450-14-G...6182&sr=1-1
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/18/12 08:29 PM

I don't see it at Amazon. Here it is at Home Depot.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/18/12 08:34 PM

Holy jeebers.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Got Wood? - 03/18/12 09:03 PM

Lots of cedar up here....what you got?
Posted by: cb919

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/12 07:59 AM

Hey all, speaking of cedar:
I am planning on putting up some cedar shingles to cover some outside areas of my house next weekend. I have not done this before, although it looks quite straight forward. Just thought I'd check if there are any 'gotchas' to be careful of with you wood knowledgeable folks.

I am planning on using a pneumatic nail gun. Any tips, tricks etc...? (Type of nail, tricks to apply, align etc...) Thanks!

Edit: While researching I get conflicting info on need for underlay and if you should use breathing or nailing strips or if you can just nail directly to the existing wood wall.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/12 08:50 AM

Any recommendations on vacuums that aren't Mark's uber-vac 4000?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/12 08:54 AM

Mine isn't uber. This is uber.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/12 08:55 AM

or this.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/12 09:36 AM

Originally Posted By: cb919
Hey all, speaking of cedar:
I am planning on putting up some cedar shingles to cover some outside areas of my house next weekend. I have not done this before, although it looks quite straight forward. Just thought I'd check if there are any 'gotchas' to be careful of with you wood knowledgeable folks.

I am planning on using a pneumatic nail gun. Any tips, tricks etc...? (Type of nail, tricks to apply, align etc...) Thanks!

Edit: While researching I get conflicting info on need for underlay and if you should use breathing or nailing strips or if you can just nail directly to the existing wood wall.


My older home is covered in Cedar shingles. I plan on repainting it sometime soon and will probably have to replace some of them. When I have a door and window removed I'll need to cover a much larger area with new shingles. Sorry, not much help here, but I think they were just nailed in place. Not sure what kind of nails yet.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/12 10:39 AM

I like the Rigid shop vacs as well. I didn't know you could stuff a bag in them, but that sure does sound like a great idea. Finding somewhere discrete outside to beat on a filter for ten minutes is a PITA.

I use Skillsaw- worm drive, magnesium saws for lumber. http://www.amazon.com/Skil-SHD77M-72-Mag...681&sr=1-17

But if I were to buy one today, I might just give the Makita a try. I like that its grip is angled up like the Dewalts (but it's not a Dewalt). http://www.amazon.com/Makita-5377MG-Magn...681&sr=1-14
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/12 11:03 AM

How about the less expensive Ridgids? I see that home depot has one for $50, which is probably not the best choice, but there's also a $100 one that doesn't look bad. The main complaint on both is the exhaust port which tends to blow everything behind it across the room or something.
Posted by: BrenR

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/12 01:03 PM

I lucked out in the Shop Vac department... dad owned a carpet cleaning business... I got possession of the "steam extractors" (really just giant wet/dry vacs)

The larger one always reminded me of an R5-D4:


The smaller of V.I.N.C.E.N.T. from the Black Hole:


Bren R.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/12 01:27 PM

I have a couple of Rigid Vacs. They do have quite an exhaust kick behind them which can blow dust and such around if aimed in the wrong direction. Other than that, they're pretty good. Look for a good sale on them though before pulling the trigger, unless you need it right away.

Also, for circular saws, I'd look at one of the worm or hypoid gear saws if you plan on cutting 2X lumber mostly. They're heavier overall but that can be a good thing when cutting lumber. They're torquey too.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/12 01:39 PM

The upper Ridgid vacs, like my model, have a "diffuser" on the exhaust so it's not a problem.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/12 01:51 PM

Oh, you can buy a diffuser for $12 for any of them, I think.

Already got the circular saw, so we'll see how it goes.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/12 05:00 PM

Ken I have two Rigid vacs, neither were expensive. Under $100. I used the piss out of one when I was building my house. Out in the rain, dropped it twenty feet once, and it took more trips down stairs that I can recall. Plus, the damn things will suck the paint off a car - OK an exaggeration...

If you bought one of those silly direct drive saws (non-worm), turn it around. I HATE those F-ing things. They are horrible for kick back and downright dangerous for lumber. The only ones worth having are the little 5"'ers for ripping sheet goods down to a manageable size. The mag worm drives are pretty light. I can carry one around while walking walls installing top plates. The little extra weight helps as you just stand the board on edge, cut it vertically letting the saw's weight drive the cut.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/12 08:05 PM

This is what i got. Not sure whether it's direct drive or worm; nothing seems to say.

Judging from the shape of the worm drive saws, this ain't one. Judging from the price, those are going to have to wait.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/19/12 08:11 PM

Isn't that the one that has a reputation for blowing up in a fireball and horribly scarring the user?

Anyone?
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 03/20/12 07:18 AM

+1 to Ridged vaccs. I replaced an aging Shop Vac brand and it has been a much better unit. I don't recall the model but it didn't have Mark's little bicycle basket on it. I also recall that he changed his to wicker anyways so his is not exactly like the photo.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/20/12 07:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Murph
it didn't have Mark's little bicycle basket on it. I also recall that he changed his to wicker anyways so his is not exactly like the photo.


Hey!

It's not like I installed the little bulb horn!

At first....
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 03/20/12 07:32 AM

For the cedar shingles, I've done a lot of that over the years. It's best to use a nail with a large flat head. This means you likely can't find ones that will fit in an air nailer that are suitable. Sorry, but for this job, you can't beat a good old fashioned hammer. I've watched contractors use air nailers and it seems they spend more time fidgeting with the pressure so as to not split the shingles, than actually shingling. On the plus side though, you will have lots of split kindling lying around for campfires.

At many points, like on the top couple of rows or when you come up to windows and things, you will be faced with making a number of smaller shingles. Traditionally, you measure then score it with a very sharp knife and snap it in two. This takes practice but you will quickly get the hang of it. Thinner sections will easily cut straight through.

However, a good that hint I will pass on is that if you happen to be able to keep a portable table saw handy then you can speed this up a lot. Measure one, use it to set the fence on the table saw and then you can cut a bunch exactly the same length with little effort. Just don't cut too many at a time. Things are rarely as square as you would think and so you may need to adjust the length now and then. I also waste less shingles this way because I have not perfected the score and snap like the 'old folks'.

My last bit of advice, spend a bit extra on a good, comfortable nail pouch. You will be wearing it a LOT.

Easy work but long and repetitive. However, in my opinion, you can't beat the comforting look of a cedar shingled home.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/20/12 09:43 AM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Isn't that the one that has a reputation for blowing up in a fireball and horribly scarring the user?

Anyone?


LOL, Mark!
Posted by: cb919

Re: Got Wood? - 03/20/12 09:50 AM

Thanks Andrew, that really helps. I'll forgo the nailer and do it the old fashioned way - here I come fat thumb!!! I already have the nail pouch, it was just more of a screw pouch from doing my decking. grin

I have also been advised to double up on the bottom row. I assume this is to make sure all seams are covered with no leak through to the wall, is that correct? Does having the bottom row twice as thick cause any issues with laying the next row?
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/20/12 10:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Ken.C
This is what i got. Not sure whether it's direct drive or worm; nothing seems to say.

Judging from the shape of the worm drive saws, this ain't one. Judging from the price, those are going to have to wait.


Bummer, you bought the one saw I'd have done my best to convince you not to buy. Well when you do use it, just be slow and careful and don't let the blade bind up on you by trying to cut anything but a very straight cut or unsupported wood, or it will kick back towards you in an attempt to cut your arm off.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/20/12 10:55 AM

And THEN comes the fireball.

Don't use eye protection- the fireball will sear it to your face.

Nah, really, you'll be fine.

Probably.

Well, maybe "probably" is overstating it, but you'll possibly be fine.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 03/20/12 11:07 AM

Originally Posted By: cb919
Thanks Andrew, that really helps. I'll forgo the nailer and do it the old fashioned way - here I come fat thumb!!! I already have the nail pouch, it was just more of a screw pouch from doing my decking. grin

I have also been advised to double up on the bottom row. I assume this is to make sure all seams are covered with no leak through to the wall, is that correct? Does having the bottom row twice as thick cause any issues with laying the next row?


Yup. Definitely double up the bottom for that exact reason and no, you will have no problems nor will the effect be visible when it's complete.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/12 08:15 AM

Ne, ne, ne. Dan, no nailgun on cedar shingles. There are nails for just such a purpose. The tops of the shingles are very thin and you need a headed nail to hold them properly. There are guns that will accomodate, but they're too expensive for a little job ($250-300).

I, too, thought the actual application of the shingles was pretty simple. I was wrong. While still not rocket science, I'd check out a HOW-TO book chapter on it.
Posted by: cb919

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/12 08:30 AM

Thanks guys, I THINK i am set now, but I am also aware that I will learn as I go. I am going to shingle 2 areas of the house and one of them is partially hidden by bushes and is the smaller surface area, so I will start with that one to hide and learn from my mistakes there so that when I get to the big area that is front and center on the driveway approach to the house I'll be a non-paid professional! If it turns out good I'll post pics. If I hack it I won't post pics but just tell you how awesome I am. grin
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/12 09:18 AM

So, we win either way? Cool!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/12 09:24 PM

Picked up slightly less wood than I'll need for the project today! Rats.

But hey, it smells good. I went with cedar.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/12 09:38 PM

Look at the bright side, at least you have enough to make up for the "Aw, sh#t!" moments.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/12 09:42 PM

Well, given that I have 10 8 foot 2x6s and I need 4 8 foot lengths and 4 4 foot lengths per box... I hope I won't have any aw sh#t! moments in regards to that. If i can't cut a board in half, well, I have a problem.

I think I have enough length in 4x4s to accommodate any potential moments.

We'll what else I need, but first I need to make my sawhorses.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/12 09:48 PM

Ken, having extra lengths of cedar in the garage is not bad. Think of them as manly-men air fresheners?
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 03/21/12 11:50 PM

Originally Posted By: St_PatGuy
Ken, having extra lengths of cedar in the garage is not bad. Think of them as manly-men air fresheners?

Hmm... No women in the house. Maybe I can put a few in my bedroom?
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/12 12:11 AM

The moths will stay out of your undies. . . .
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/12 12:18 AM

Except for the ones wearing checkered Al Borland t-shirts.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/12 12:21 AM

Do those come with beards, too?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/12 01:18 AM

The moths or Fred's undies?
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/12 11:11 AM

Originally Posted By: Ken.C
If i can't cut a board in half, well, I have a problem.

Don't forget to subtract the width of your blade for each cut to get your actual final cut lengths... grin
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/12 11:12 AM

Oh yeah.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/12 07:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Adrian
The moths or Fred's undies?

I got... the non-bearded kind.

Of

undies.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/12 08:48 PM

You said that in a Shatner voice, didn't you Fred?
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/12 10:53 PM

Originally Posted By: fredk
Originally Posted By: Adrian
The moths or Fred's undies?

I got... the non-bearded kind.

Of

undies.


Fred, I think that the best way for you to keep moths out of your undies is to get a girlfriend. Of course, to prepare for the "3rd" date, you'll have to call in a professional. Don't sign any of those contracts for monthly service right away, either. You can call and schedule another treatment if she dumps you. Or, you could get lucky and meet the Orkin Girl.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/12 10:55 PM

Ken, be sure to wear protection when cutting cedar. The airborne particles are quite toxic. You should probably wear a dust mask, too.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/12 11:10 PM

Originally Posted By: BobKay
Ken, be sure to wear protection when cutting cedar. The airborne particles are quite toxic. You should probably wear a dust mask, too.


I imagine Ken wears a Darth Vader mask in the workshop.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/12 11:21 PM

Originally Posted By: St_PatGuy
Originally Posted By: BobKay
Ken, be sure to wear protection when cutting cedar. The airborne particles are quite toxic. You should probably wear a dust mask, too.


I imagine Ken wears a Darth Vader mask in the workshop.


...and protection!
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/12 11:23 PM

Originally Posted By: BobKay

...and protection!


He has Stormtroopers for that!
Posted by: CV

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/12 11:51 PM

If only Darth Vader could be protected from George Lucas's tinkering.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 03/22/12 11:57 PM

The Force can't help him there.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 03/23/12 12:14 AM

Originally Posted By: BobKay
Originally Posted By: fredk
Originally Posted By: Adrian
The moths or Fred's undies?

I got... the non-bearded kind.

Of

undies.


Fred, I think that the best way for you to keep moths out of your undies is to get a girlfriend. Of course, to prepare for the "3rd" date, you'll have to call in a professional. Don't sign any of those contracts for monthly service right away, either. You can call and schedule another treatment if she dumps you. Or, you could get lucky and meet the Orkin Girl.


Nah, not my type.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/23/12 12:42 AM

I'm always amazed by the influence Star Wars had on so many of you. It's because I was an adult (well, that's questionable, even now) when it all started, so I'd have to be a loser to be that affected by it. That's not me talking. Everyone felt that way about "hangers on." Star Trek (on TV--- B & W TV!) was from when I was a teen, and we went nuts for it, but we had all gotten over it years before it became a film franchise. People (guys) who didn't get over it by end of summer vacation, 1968--those are the losers I'm takin' 'bout.

There doesn't seen to be an over-riding cultural phenomenon that all-coloring from my childhood. Most of the 'iconic" TV shows from the mid 60's lasted 2 or 3 seasons (like Star Trek), so we were always on to something else. We were the first children raised with television, so "on to something else" was the post-War attitude of, well, everyone (the REAL Mad Men). I will say that the British Invasion was a HUGE distraction. So were movies (no cable, no VCR). Films were rarely franchised back then, short of the few "007" sorts of things. Movies didn't have numerals, Arabic or Roman, after their titles, unless it was to confuse you, like "Butterfield 8" or "8 1/2." If the screenplay were original, that was OK. If it had been a book, and you had read it, it was uncool to see the movie, sort of like, "We have a televsion, but we only watch PBS."

So many writers changed everything for all of us, Ken Kesey, Burroughs, ... I was going to continue the list, but I realized I'd be naming authors that you may have been forced to read in high school or college that were newly published when we read them...ow.

It's interesting to see the lasting impact that your own decade's pop culture left on you. It's definitely different from ours.

The weirdest thing is that so much of the music has remained as part of the culture. I didn't listen to anything at all that my parents did. None of us did, well, except for that weird Kenny Finn who only bought marching band records and ended up in the Air Force. Now, I see my friends of 40 years loaning out their 60's and 70's vinyl to their teenage grandkids (OK, sons). Some if it hasn't been seen in years, because their young adult kids "accidently" packed those Zep records when they moved out after college 20 years ago.

We never expected it to work out this way. I've though about it for a couple of decades and still can't decide whether it's cool or creepy.

I know, this shoulda been in another thread, but it's only "Got Wood." It's not like this thread is sacred to anyone who isn't from Easter Island or hasn't failed all current ED treatments.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/23/12 12:45 AM

Originally Posted By: fredk
Originally Posted By: BobKay
Originally Posted By: fredk
Originally Posted By: Adrian
The moths or Fred's undies?

I got... the non-bearded kind.

Of

undies.


Fred, I think that the best way for you to keep moths out of your undies is to get a girlfriend. Of course, to prepare for the "3rd" date, you'll have to call in a professional. Don't sign any of those contracts for monthly service right away, either. You can call and schedule another treatment if she dumps you. Or, you could get lucky and meet the Orkin Girl.


Nah, not my type.


Cool photo. Can't remember the name of the photogapher, but that was a famous LIFE or LOOK magazine image shot in post-War (there it is again) Italy.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 03/23/12 02:28 AM

The photographers name would be Orkin, making the girl in the picture the... and still not my type.

American Girl In Italy was the title.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/23/12 08:24 AM

Ah, thanks for reminding me, Bob. Guess I do need to get that shop vac before i start. Gonna be raining this weekend anyway, rats.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 03/23/12 08:41 AM

Is it just me or does the guy on the scooter have a giant head?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/23/12 08:54 AM

It's normal-sized.

The street, buildings, moped and other people are all smaller than normal.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/23/12 09:35 AM

Now that you mention it, Murph, it does look rather badly photoshopped. All I know is that never happened to me in Italy.
Maybe I needed those laced sandals with my satin hotpants, tank top and knee highs?
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 03/23/12 10:40 AM

My log home is western red cedar. When I was building it, I spent a great deal of time with a 9" grinder and sanding disk profiling the door and window openings, the flats on the logs for receptacles and switches and misc other areas. It took me one time (the first time) of doing this without a dusk mask to realize why bugs don't like cedar. I got horribly sick. So ya, listen to Bob.... Cedar dust is pretty bad stuff to be inhaling. You can probably get away without a mask for rough cutting a few boards, but definitely do not try to sand the stuff without a mask.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 03/23/12 10:54 AM

I think his body is just small in comparison to his normal-sized head.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 03/23/12 12:23 PM

Reminds me of one of my favorite Flight of the Concords episode when Jermaine phones Bret in a panic because he slept with an Australian and thinks he is trapped in her apartment.

Bret: Did she look Australian?
Jemaine: No, not particularly...in the face, I suppose, but not bodily.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 03/23/12 11:47 PM

I bought a Rigid shop vac that was a 'special buy' at home depot, I picked it up for $45 and it is the best shop vac I have owned. I have recently added one of these and the filter stays very clean.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/12 07:58 AM

What does that do?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/12 08:07 AM

Ken, a cyclone device such as that allows all the heavier chips, etc. to drop into it so you're not clogging up the vac itself nearly as often, and allows greater efficiency.

Think of it in terms of the vac providing the suction for the process, but not the end-reservoir for the stuff you vacuum.

I've never really looked into them for my own use, because I don't want to have to drag something else around the shop.

They're popular, though, and almost all dust collection systems now use cyclone designs for greater efficiency.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/12 08:09 AM

Oh, so it's like that bit in the episode that made me stop watching Numb3rs where he uses some contrived math to make you want to buy a Dyson!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/12 08:38 AM

Well, I've never watched Numb3rs, but I'll just go along with it and say "Yeah. It's JUST like that!" smile
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/12 09:25 PM

I think I've said this here before, to much ridicule, but I buy big girl pantyhose at the dollar store. I cut the legs into about 10" lengths. If you stretch a piece over your filter, it'll keep the fine dust from clogging the accordion ridges. When the stocking gets covered, you can, without actually lifting the top of the vacuum totally off it's base, just use a stiff-bristled brush to knock off the clinging particles and you've got full suction again.

Hmmm?

Challenge!

Compose your own 4-sentence paragraph that includes the words:
pantyhose, filter, accordion, stiff-bristled brush, suction and clinging. That makes me almost almost wanna try to write another one myself.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/12 09:36 PM

Originally Posted By: BobKay

Challenge!

Compose your own 4-sentence paragraph that includes the words:
pantyhose, filter, accordion, stiff-bristled brush, suction and clinging. That makes me almost almost wanna try to write another one myself.


And. . . .do it without giggling.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/24/12 09:52 PM

The first instrument I learned to play was the accordion. I had to practice for at least an hour a day or my mother would beat me with a stiff-bristled brush. Sometimes she would sneak up from behind and and strangle me with her old pantyhose. When she heard too many wrong notes, I would try to filter out her screaming by making more suction on the bellows. I hate to feel boogers clinging to my nose.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/12 11:39 AM

Grabbed the cheap-o sale $50 Ridgid vac yesterday along with a muffler. Seems to operate, although it is quite loud, even with the muffler. Who cares, so's the rest of the stuff.

Finally used the table saw this morning as well. It seems to be in relatively good condition, although the blade may not be all that and a bag of chips. It seems pretty well balanced. Haven't done the nickel test. Just trimming some 2x4s that I cut with my Japanese hand saw to size so I can build sawhorses.

Once I have the sawhorses together, I can start on the cedar with the circular saw. I'm assuming it's not a good plan to cut long (8') boards on the table saw with a 5 foot wide table? It's been awhile since I've done the whole table saw safety thing, so I'm being very cautious.
Posted by: whippersnapper

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/12 11:49 AM

Originally Posted By: BobKay

Challenge!

Compose your own 4-sentence paragraph that includes the words:
pantyhose, filter, accordion, stiff-bristled brush, suction and clinging. That makes me almost almost wanna try to write another one myself.


"The unit had so much suction it picked up a pair of pantyhose that got stuck in the filter. The resulting cacophony from the electric motor whining and air whistling through the clinging hose reminded me of the time my neighbor started taking accordion lessons. I ultimately resorted to beating him about the head and shoulders with a stiff-bristled brush before he decided to change hobbies."

RATS! That was only 3 sentences...
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/12 12:20 PM

Thanks for the effort, Whip. I chortled, guffawed and gakked.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/25/12 01:53 PM

Just read some stuff on using a table saw and realized that I was being rather foolish about doing my cross cuts. I just need to generate some scrap lumber so I can make extended miter fences and all that good stuff.

Kinda hard to do when I'm just doing cross cuts.
Posted by: cb919

Re: Got Wood? - 03/27/12 07:29 PM

Originally Posted By: cb919
If it turns out good I'll post pics. If I hack it I won't post pics but just tell you how awesome I am.


Cedar shingle update since I know you've all been dying with anticipation. Well, no pics yet! grin

Actually it's because it's taking about 8 times longer than I thought and I've only been home 1 day since last posting this. A whole 5 rows of shingles are up. I will be home tomorrow night for the next 4 days so should be able to git er done.

While I am most definitely a hack, it seems to be turning out pretty good so far.

More to come on the weekend - and hopefully some pics.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/12 07:34 AM

Originally Posted By: cb919
Originally Posted By: cb919
If it turns out good I'll post pics. If I hack it I won't post pics but just tell you how awesome I am.


Cedar shingle update since I know you've all been dying with anticipation. Well, no pics yet! grin

Actually it's because it's taking about 8 times longer than I thought and I've only been home 1 day since last posting this. A whole 5 rows of shingles are up. I will be home tomorrow night for the next 4 days so should be able to git er done.

While I am most definitely a hack, it seems to be turning out pretty good so far.

More to come on the weekend - and hopefully some pics.


Don't worry, getting started always takes the longest. After a while you realize that other than keeping a straight horizontal line, shingles actually look better the more random they are so you stop being so fussy and then things just fly along.
Posted by: cb919

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/12 08:29 AM

So true. The top of my garage is not level - actually it's out almost an inch over 16 feet, but my roof line where the shingles will end is dead level. So i have been putzing around with making the 1st row parallel to the garage, then taking an 8th or so out of each row after that so I will get to level slowly before I hit the soffits. Then I had accidentally offset my strapping spacing vs my shingle exposure (rookie maneuver). So by the time I got all of that straightened out i had wasted most of a day. I wish I could bill my wife by the hour for this!

Here's a question I have for you experienced in this application - what do you do when you when you get to the top row right under the soffit? If I nail like all the other rows, the nail heads will show since it is the last row. Do you use finishing nails? I can't seem to find any instructions for this particular question. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/12 09:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Ken.C
Just read some stuff on using a table saw and realized that I was being rather foolish about doing my cross cuts. I just need to generate some scrap lumber so I can make extended miter fences and all that good stuff.

Kinda hard to do when I'm just doing cross cuts.


Ken, I'm putting my usual wise-ass stuff aside for this.

You've GOT to go out and get a good table saw book, immediately!

The possibility for injury is ever present. If something shoots back at you, you could need to go to the ER.
I've used "techniques" that you're not supposed to and I've come very close to paying for it. A piece 3/4" x 2.5" x 16" once hit me in the gut. I was wearing a t-shirt under a sweatshirt under a hoodie and the welt it left was huge and it hurt like hell, for a few days. Had that been my head...

Please be careful. You still need all of your digits to diaper.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/12 09:45 AM

Originally Posted By: BobKay
You've GOT to go out and get a good table saw book DVD, immediately!

Fixed that for you, Bob. A DVD would enable you to see the techniques, live....rather than the still photos a book offers.

Ken, let me see if I've got something here....
Posted by: cb919

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/12 09:49 AM

+1 I was ripping a door trim once using an ill advised technique and the trim was jettisoned from the saw and impaled the wall behind me. eek Thankfully I was off to the side and no harm was done except for a hole in my garage wall. I have been anally careful ever since as table saws now scare the crap out of me. I much prefer to use my compound miter saw whenever possible.

Edit - actually should have posted this in the 'stupidest thing you've done' thread that we had going a while back.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/12 09:56 AM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Originally Posted By: BobKay
You've GOT to go out and get a good table saw book DVD, immediately!

Fixed that for you, Bob. A DVD would enable you to see the techniques, live....rather than the still photos a book offers.

Ken, let me see if I've got something here....


I totally agree, Mark, but I don't have a laptop or a TV in the shop. See, I learn something from you everyday. I did not know that dvd's were "live." Had I been aware, I never would have gone bluray. Or maybe you just think that, 'cause you've gone all 3-D like on us.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/12 10:21 AM

I think a book would be better in my case.

I'm not ripping anything for this project, and I'm trying to be extremely cautious, but the more info, the better.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/12 10:55 AM

Just cut the damn wood already, Ken. whistle
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/12 12:14 PM

Don't rush him, Peter! remember he's using a dangerous saw .
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/12 01:01 PM

I miss Jim Candy.
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/12 01:33 PM

Originally Posted By: BobKay
I miss Jim Candy.


you mean john candy?? or gym sock
Posted by: BrenR

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/12 01:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Socketman
you mean john candy?? or gym sock
Like the Belushis, Jim Candy was the younger, unfunny one. shocked

Bren R.
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/12 02:01 PM

Originally Posted By: BrenR
Originally Posted By: Socketman
you mean john candy?? or gym sock
Like the Belushis, Jim Candy was the younger, unfunny one. shocked

Bren R.


yeah, i agree which is wy i couldnt understand anyone missing him.

gym sock (jim salk)
Posted by: BrenR

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/12 03:12 PM

Oops... Jim Candy was older.

Bren R.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 03/28/12 03:32 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Originally Posted By: BobKay
You've GOT to go out and get a search for good free table saw book DVD, Youtube videos immediately!

Fixed that for you, Bob. These readily available free videos would enable you to see the techniques, live....rather than the still photos a book offers.


Fixed that for you Mark.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 03/29/12 05:29 PM

Originally Posted By: BobKay
I miss Jim Candy.


I'm sooo sorry. What a blunder! I meant Gym Candy.
Posted by: cb919

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/12 07:20 AM

Cedar update - still not done due to life getting in the way, but below is a pic of progress. I am actually much further along than that pic but I wrapped up at dark last night and was too lazy to walk back out on the driveway for another pic. And i am now traveling the next 3 days for work again, then it's Easter weekend, then... Completed pics should be posted in another year or so - after Nick and Ben's basements are long done! wink


Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/12 08:30 AM

Looks good so far, Dan!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/12 08:37 AM

Originally Posted By: cb919
still not done due to life getting in the way

Stupid life. It's always in the way!

It's looking great, Dan...especially against the stone!!
Posted by: Adelin

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/12 09:38 AM

Really nice work.
I need you help me for my own box/storage smile


It remember me when i walked in switzerland.
There was bunkers with anti tank gun inside.
They used any material that could hide the concrete with on pair items found in the bunker area.

I'm sure you work for the army :p
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/12 09:57 AM

You go, Dan! Lookin' good, lookin' good. It's a big improvement over the original. I get all goosebumps when I see chalklines that long! Oooh!
Posted by: cb919

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/12 10:18 AM

Originally Posted By: BobKay
...I get all goosebumps when I see chalklines that long! Oooh!


Those friggin chalk lines is part of what is taking so long. Trying to set a 16 foot line plumb with no help takes a while! I've never moved a ladder back and forth more in my life. mad Still, sure feels good when you step back and view your progress after several hours.

Thanks for the tips from you and Murph!

BTW, ads do abound again on the left column of the forum.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/12 10:25 AM

No way to set up planks for a scaffold?
Posted by: cb919

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/12 12:27 PM

Good thought, but no, I can't easily set that up. I'd rather the time lost than the money lost for investing in a scaffolding setup.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/12 02:45 PM

I can see you've been a cedar-shake-scribing fool as well. So worth it. The filler piece that was the transition from the old clapboards (?) to stone is nowhere near as clean a look. And I don't think that losing some of the depth of the stone reveal is a loss in any way----certainly not in exhange for the shakes.

A cup hook (or a 2.5" finishing nail) and a second ladder would help with the chalk lines. Scaffolding and planks are for poosies. (I'm guilty of skywalking, too, but Mark is on point---way safer and more maneuverability.)

What's going to happen to them after the installation is finished? You've been doing great so far, so don't piss me off now.
Posted by: cb919

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/12 04:28 PM

Originally Posted By: BobKay
...
What's going to happen to them after the installation is finished? You've been doing great so far, so don't piss me off now.


.:Runs away and researches before hopefully posting the response that will not piss off Bob:.

Seriously though, my plan so far was to let them weather for a season and then pick out a nice stain for next year. I have not researched this, it's simply what I think at the moment. Open to suggestions as always!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/12 04:35 PM

Originally Posted By: cb919
Open to suggestions as always!

Be careful- Bob can get very suggestive!
Posted by: cb919

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/12 05:25 PM

I was hoping someone else who is good with wood could chime in! grin

Could I tee that up any better?
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/12 05:30 PM

Originally Posted By: cb919
Originally Posted By: BobKay
...
What's going to happen to them after the installation is finished? You've been doing great so far, so don't piss me off now.


.:Runs away and researches before hopefully posting the response that will not piss off Bob:.

Seriously though, my plan so far was to let them weather for a season and then pick out a nice stain for next year. I have not researched this, it's simply what I think at the moment. Open to suggestions as always!



Ahhhh! That is zackry what I was hoping to hear, Dan! Smart man, that Dan.

Edit: Oil (alkyd) base only. Keep in mind, though they initially look better, the more opaque the stain, the shorter the life.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/12 05:44 PM

Originally Posted By: cb919
I was hoping someone else who is good with wood could chime in! grin

Could I tee that up any better?


Sorry ya got me again (though I have been someone else, and more than once), bu' 'twasn't a wood question, 'twas a "residential exterior surface coatings preparation and application technician" question.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/12 05:53 PM

Originally Posted By: BobKay
Edit: Oil (alkyd) base only. Keep in mind, though they initially look better, the more opaque the stain, the shorter the life.

Bob, is this a typo? I always thought the LESS opaque, the less protection it offered?
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/02/12 07:00 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Originally Posted By: BobKay
Edit: Oil (alkyd) base only. Keep in mind, though they initially look better, the more opaque the stain, the shorter the life.

Bob, is this a typo? I always thought the LESS opaque, the less protection it offered?


Good catch, Mark, but, no. (Kreiss, at least someone is paying attention!)

Color opacity is determined by pigment loading (how many actual grains of the color "stuff" (don't make me get into the "stuff") are in the vehicle (the oil (alkyd) or water base).

The quality of the product is in the vehicle, which contains binders, drying agents, or retarders, etc., and some sort of varnish which will determine the ultimate finish (for paint, not stain). The quality of the color is mostly in the pigment--- quality AND quantity. The more pigment you add, you're taking up space that should be for the vehicle, so the binding properties (above all others) are compromised.

It's the same reason why you can't tint a primer to a deep base color. The ratio of pigment to primer would get all whacky and the long-term performance (mostly adhesion) will suffer.
Posted by: BrenR

Re: Got Wood? - 04/04/12 05:51 PM

Originally Posted By: BobKay
Good catch, Mark, but, no. (Kreiss, at least someone is paying attention!)

Nothing TO catch... you spoke correctly.

Opaque stains also build up and flake like paint. Ugly.

Keep it clear! Werd!

Bren R.
Posted by: cb919

Re: Got Wood? - 04/04/12 06:30 PM

Roger that! Though that's where I would have gone anyway since I like the natural wood and stone look. At least I get to procrastinate on the staining efforts for a year.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/04/12 10:06 PM

So, here's a couple of pics of the garden beds I built (upside down for now, but... )

I even managed to do it with power tools and only minimal removal of important body parts!




Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 04/04/12 10:19 PM

Looks good, Ken! You did a fine job.

What are you planning on growing?
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/04/12 10:20 PM

You go, tool guy! Good show, Ken. Glad to see you had at it. I'll bet the kids would like you to leave it on he grass just like that, but fill it with sand!

With something so substantial (the vertical members) to nail/screw into at the corner joints, you could have saved some $$ and left out the metal brackets, but they won't hurt.

Ken's one of us now---"one of us, one of us, one of us!" (Ever see Todd Browning's "Freaks," from 1934??
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/04/12 10:36 PM

Ken, I recently found my way to pages with a raised bed design (maybe you sent me the link?) and I noted that I really liked the idea of attaching pipes to enable covering the beds.

Nice work!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/04/12 10:41 PM

That's exactly the post I was working off of. I have the materials for the pipes, but I haven't put them on yet (obviously).
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/05/12 08:15 AM

Nice Ken. Looks good and sturdy.

Only somewhat related but somehow this reminds me of a funny story. Two summers ago I visited a friends back yard that looked like a disaster zone. In lieu of levelling his lawn for a pretty good sized inflatable swimming pool, he decided to build a wooden platform for it. Of course, the platform exploded before it was even 3/4 full of water. The pool was destroyed and his lawn looked like a frog swamp.

This has no bearing on your build Ken. It looks great. Just thought I'd share the story.
Posted by: cb919

Re: Got Wood? - 04/05/12 09:48 AM

Looking good Ken. Great idea on the pipes for covering. This makes me want to redo my 4 year old raised bed now - way better build than I managed back then. What are you planning to grow?

Cheers,
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/05/12 10:54 AM

Uh... plants? Hadn't gotten that far. Tomatoes, maybe cukes, possibly corn.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/05/12 11:03 AM

If your kids like watching helicopters fly overhead, I suggest a crop of hemp. Free airshows, Woot!!
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/06/12 09:22 AM

Originally Posted By: Murph
If your kids like watching helicopters fly overhead, I suggest a crop of hemp. Free airshows, Woot!!


I only made some suggestions to you about building the planters, Ken. If you're gonna do that with them, you'll need a completely different set of instructions. Call me. My friends from Mendocino just sent me info on a new helicopter-navigation-jamming app.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 04/07/12 08:39 PM

I thought I would throw this link up again. Its the curved cabinet build using the curvomatic thing.

Looking good!
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 04/07/12 09:21 PM

Originally Posted By: fredk
I thought I would throw this link up again. Its the curved cabinet build using the curvomatic thing.

Looking good!


Wow, thanks again for the link, Fred. It is awesome to see the step by step process of the build.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 04/07/12 11:26 PM

The guy has both the cool tools and the skills needed to weild them effectively.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 04/07/12 11:35 PM

Definitely fun and interesting to watch.
Posted by: cb919

Re: Got Wood? - 04/27/12 11:02 AM

Cedar shake update - almost done, waiting on final trim board for the top row nail cover. I want a 1x6x16 to finish off the top edge, but they don't make those standard apparently. So I have placed a custom order for the board from 'the place where they make cedar' where I bought the shingles from. I could have put up 2 1x6x8's but I'm not in a rush and would prefer the clean look of a single trim board. BTW, this is all using eastern white cedar instead of the western red that Home Depot, Lowes etc... commonly sell. Here's a crappy bberry pic of the almost finished covering:


Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/27/12 11:09 AM

That looks great, Dan! You'll feel proud every time you pull in the driveway!
Posted by: cb919

Re: Got Wood? - 04/27/12 12:09 PM

Thanks Mark, though as you can see the driveway needs some work too....old houses, the work and expenses never end, eh? (There, I just put a Canadian stereotype in text)
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 04/27/12 12:59 PM

Dan, it really does look beautiful. Between the stone siding and the shakes, the overall effect is very elegant.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/27/12 03:32 PM

Great job!!!
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 04/27/12 05:50 PM

Looks good! When's the cedar shake warming party?
Posted by: cb919

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/12 09:12 AM

Thanks guys, I am pleased with the result. And thanks for the tips I received - they really did help

Fred, the party will be when I finish the 2nd section under a bow window that still needs to be done - I tactically kept that part out of the photo. blush
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/12 11:09 AM

CB, are you going to stain the cedar? i built a cedar pergola last year, i treated it with Thompson water sealer, but need to stain it this year..... The fresh look of cedar is amazing eh? not to mention how your driveway my smell right now, with all that fresh cut cedar right above the garage door wink .


Thompson sells a sealer with a stain... The Thompson product makes the water bead up and roll off of the wood, like a carnauba wax on a car. Pretty amazing..
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/30/12 09:09 AM

Ummm question. If you planned on staining it, why did you use water seal first? All that beading will now apply to your staining efforts as well. Hopefully, the Thompsons has mostly worn off but I'd bet there will be patches where it makes things difficult for you.

Edit: I took out my negative statements on Thompsons products as they were not helpful.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/30/12 09:27 AM

I wonder if a trisodium phosphate wash and a good rinse would help?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/30/12 09:30 AM

I don't get it.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/30/12 09:41 AM

Oh, that's because I wasn't making a joke. Seriously, a wash with TSP and a really thorough rinse may help from allowing the remaining Thompson's film to interfere with the application/absorption of the stain.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/30/12 10:46 AM

Now I really don't get it.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/30/12 12:36 PM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
i built a cedar pergola last year, i treated it with Thompson water sealer, but need to stain it this year.....

Ken, I think the point is that stain needs to sink into the wood to work correctly. If dakkon put Thompson's Water Seal on the wood last year, the stain won't absorb into the wood this year the way it should.

The TSP might be a way of removing the Thompson's so the stain can absorb into the wood!
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 04/30/12 12:44 PM

Just use the undo button!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/30/12 12:55 PM

Geez, my sense of humor must really be off today. Neither Bob nor Mark's posts seem to be funny.
Posted by: medic8r

Re: Got Wood? - 04/30/12 02:44 PM

Wait. Bob and Mark are sometimes funny?
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/30/12 03:01 PM

I understood where you were going Ken. It was funny. Mark is just having one of his helpful days.
Posted by: cb919

Re: Got Wood? - 05/01/12 08:21 AM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
CB, are you going to stain the cedar?


I am planning on letting it weather naturally for a year and then will plan to stain/seal sometime next summer.

Cheers,
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 05/01/12 09:18 AM

Way ta go, Dan!
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 05/14/12 11:17 PM

Here's a video featuring a kind of love that Bob can really get behind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZU1B8kb8EQ
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 05/14/12 11:27 PM

Romanticizing the mundane always holds an appeal for me. Reminds me of The Fuggs' "Symphony to an Unknown Drainpipe."

He did manage to make it sexy, didn't he? Where're my shop rags?

What you find out there is amazing, but Peter, ya gotta start giving it a rest, or by the time you're 50, you're neck will no longer be able to support the thickness of your eyeglasses.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 05/14/12 11:34 PM

You probably have a point.




Probably.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 11/17/12 12:41 PM

Speaking of dead threads...

So I was looking at dado blades today (for no good reason), and I came across the concept of "zero clearance inserts" for tables saws. I was curious and it sounded like a good idea, so I did some more googling. Finally came across this website.

Now, this procedure/method generally sounds like a REALLY BAD IDEA(tm) to me, but I was curious what the real woodworkers thought.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 11/17/12 12:55 PM

It worked well for me. I put in a smaller blade to get the proper clearance, put the insert in, clamped it down, and turned the blade back up very slowly until the slot was cut.

Now, I have a belt drive table, so if the blade binds, at worst I need to buy a new belt. I did have a finger on the off switch the whole time.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 11/17/12 12:58 PM

Hokay, maybe it's not as crazy as I thought.
I suspect there are other things I need to work on with this saw first, though. Like the alignment, and probably cleaning it all over.

Pain in the butt.
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Got Wood? - 11/18/12 12:31 PM

I have a friend on a budget who is considering using the new Rustoleum transformation kit to do his eighties kitchen cabinets.
http://cabinets.rustoleumtransformations.ca/

Anyone have any advice, or use this first hand?
Any experienced comments on quality of this product?
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 11/19/12 07:11 AM

On the zero clearance insert. It's well worth the time or $ spent. Especially if you do small pieces. If you get a dado blade, you will want to make another for that. Obviously the normal insert will not work if you get into larger dado sizes and the entire gap left from no insert at all is pretty wide. Unless the pieces being cut are big, it becomes more of a necessity than just to prevent chipping.

If you make them. Do be careful and use a VERY sharp blade and strong clamps. Starting with a thin blade like Fred mentioned is a good idea as well. I tried it with my old utility blade in and once it got so far it started pushing vs. cutting. Switched to my new kerf blade and the problem went away.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 11/19/12 10:01 PM

Zero clearance inserts are a must to make clean cuts with no tear out.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 01/06/13 05:13 PM

So today I did some playing with the saw, just to re-familiarize myself with some stuff. Ended up doing a tongue and groove joint with a couple pieces of plywood using just the regular saw blade. I'm rather proud of myself, even if it did take me 2.5 hours of fiddling.

And yes, I know it would be a *&!^ of a lot easier with a dado, but I'm waiting to buy stuff until I see what my parents got me for Xmas.

Of course, I was a lot more proud of myself before I realized that I can't add or subtract to save my life, and the board I had made was still not big enough for what I intended to use it.

So back to the tongue and groove cutting, but then I ran out of light. Sigh.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 01/06/13 07:37 PM


The most enjoyment I get out of wood working is figuring things out. Well done Ken.

Now go do the same thing with your router! Just don't forget to cut with router going in the right direction or it'll climb away from your straight edge and across the sheet / board - then the floor... Guess how I know that.... Pretty friggin scary being chaced by a router with a carbide bit looking for your ankle.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 01/06/13 07:51 PM

Ah, you understand!

Unfortunately, I don't have a router yet. I think my upcoming shopping list looks something like this:

1. Pocket joiner kit
1.5 Blu-ray player
2. dado blade
3. upgraded fence for the table saw (cha-ching!)
4. pulley 'n' chain kit for the saw
5. router
6. router box

Project list:
1. shelf for kid's TV cabinet (dead easy!)
2. shelf for our closet (easy!)
3. cabinet for kids' toyboxes (probably sorta easy?)
4. crown molding in living room
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 01/07/13 07:47 AM

Sounds like a fun weekend.
If you keep mastering different joinery types then you can move the pocket joiner kit further down the list. I'm not trying to sound all experty though. I have one and it's great for many things.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 01/07/13 07:56 AM

I love pocket hole joinery and use it frequently when one side of the joint won't be seen. Quick, strong and simple.

Edit: But I'm not experty either! smile
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 01/07/13 08:14 AM

As near as I can figure, the only kind of joint I can make right now with the tools I have is the tongue and grooves! I guess if I got the dado blade, that would expand my options greatly, but I really do like pocket hole joints.

I've been sorely tempted by biscuit joints, but it seems silly to have such a large/expensive tool that only does the one thing.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 01/07/13 08:40 AM

Actually, table saws are usable for lots of types of joinery. You just have to be imaginative (aka look them up) and you usually need to make a jig to do it properly. It's great for half-lap or even bridle joints. Just look up how to make a simple jig to make the deep vertical cuts safely.

Another simple homemade jig will let you do fancy box (finger) joints on a table saw. Obviously it takes a lot more passes with a regular blade but you would be surprised how fast you can go on small items like decorative boxes and stuff. For bigger projects, you would soon get bored and head to the hardware store for a dado blade.

P.S.
Making homemade jigs and using them to easily do things that look like they should be experty (like Mark) is one of the biggest joys of woodworking.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 01/07/13 08:58 AM

Yeah, I need to look into making jigs. Now that I have a fair amount of scrap wood, that will be easier.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 01/07/13 09:32 AM

One of the wood working magazines did a test on biscuit joints. They proved that the biscuits did not add any strength over glue whatsoever. So really, they are nothing more than a nifty device to help hold boards together and in alignment while the glue dries. For hard wood, I prefer M/T joinery. With sheet goods, I generally stick with dados. I don't screw with shouldered joints either.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 01/07/13 10:39 AM

Me? I'm just perty.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 02/03/13 07:46 AM

I'm thinking I probably need to totally tear apart my table saw and re-build it. Yay. Anyone have any experience with these? I can get the link belts elsewhere for about half the price, so I'm not sure if the pulleys are worth it. I do know my saw has a fierce vibration, and the v-belt is definitely, definitely worn the heck out. Anything else I should be considering?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 02/03/13 09:20 AM

Eh, I bought the kit. Could probably use as much help as I can get on this saw. Also ordered a mobile base kit for it, so I can get it out of the way in the shed and/or move it around more easily to cut big stuff.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 02/03/13 07:47 PM

Sometimes you can drill a hole(s) at the heavy spot on the pulley to help balance it if it is the cause of the vibration.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 02/04/13 10:37 AM

Can I come watch you install it and record your cursing?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 02/04/13 10:42 AM

Absolutely. I'll need someone to help me move the *&!%ing thing around.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 02/04/13 12:05 PM

Webcam, please.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 02/04/13 12:19 PM

Can I do pay-per-view with Skype?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 02/04/13 12:38 PM

Does anyone here do any turning?

I'm _finally_ starting to get a little time in my workshop, and I've always been intrigued with wood turning. It seems that it really is a different animal than most activities in the shop... i.e., there are turners who couldn't build a Shaker stand and there are many otherwise talented and experienced woodworkers who have no experience in turning.

I bought a Jet Mini Lathe back in July when Rockler had it for close to half off (including the $100 gift card you were given that I had no doubt I would use). This was during the time that my Dad was ill, though, so I never even took it out of the box until 2 weeks ago.

The journey of lathe chisels to buy, learning about sharpening (buying one sharpening system and likely buying another very shortly) and learning the techniques themselves is pretty involved.

There is a local woodworking school that has a very good reputation and I see that they're offering a turning class, starting in May, that runs once a week, three hours a night, for fifteen weeks. At $275, that strikes me as a bargain and I think I'm going to enroll.

So.... any wood turners here?
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 02/04/13 01:11 PM

"wood turners". Heh heh heh.

It's been a slow turning, from the inside out.

Be careful.

Class sounds good.

Yeah, I got nuthin', but wanted to acknowledge your post anyway.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 02/04/13 02:53 PM

I think turning can be pretty meditative. Much like stone carving, you have a block of material and desired end-state. You just have to remove the stuff that doesn't need to be there. smile

I expect you to be turning giant custom speaker cones before too long.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 02/04/13 03:01 PM

How long is "too long"?
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 02/04/13 03:55 PM

Ask my wife?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 02/04/13 05:34 PM

Hold on.... I'm turning a drum head to give you a rimshot.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Got Wood? - 02/06/13 07:47 AM

Check out the router table on sale as Amazon's deal of the day.
Posted by: medic8r

Re: Got Wood? - 02/06/13 08:22 AM

Here's the link.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 02/06/13 10:29 AM

Stop tempting me.
Posted by: medic8r

Re: Got Wood? - 02/06/13 11:15 AM

I know, I know. I don't have to lead you to temptation. You can find it yourself.
Posted by: Ray3

Re: Got Wood? - 02/06/13 11:19 AM

Originally Posted By: Ken.C
Stop tempting me.


"FREE Super Saver Shipping".

Just sayin'
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 02/06/13 11:30 AM

Pfft. I've got amazon prime. I just spent about that much on new pulleys and a base for my table saw, as well as a replacement blade for my dozuki.
Posted by: medic8r

Re: Got Wood? - 02/06/13 11:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Ken.C
a replacement blade for my dozuki.

Gesundheit.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 02/10/13 05:36 PM

Oh boy. Well, I got the table saw on the wheeled base, which is awesome. And I got the old pulleys off the saw. But I got the arbor pulley off wrong (ie, I banged on it), and I also can't get the replacement one on. Will have to look at it another time with a cooler head.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 02/10/13 08:36 PM

Phew. Looks like I got away with it. Everything still spins fine, although I still can't get the new arbor pulley on (or the key out of the axle). I may just invest in some grease and see if I can't get the dang thing to go on without removing the key. It's soaking in WD40 right now...

Also ticked at myself that I stupidly cut one of my boards to the wrong size--too short. And this is the plywood, so it ain't cheap. Guess my design is changing again.
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Got Wood? - 02/10/13 08:42 PM

you must have gone to the same woodshop school I did, measure once cut twice - switch to backup plan LOL
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 02/10/13 08:44 PM

Nah, I've been really careful most of hte time, but, as usual, I got in a hurry and didn't think. Moved the tape measure to make my measurement (to 2 inches, to be more precise), then didn't think about that on the other end. Hey presto, board 2 inches shorter than I wanted. But a nice straight, well measured 2 inches shorter...
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 02/11/13 09:51 AM

Originally Posted By: Socketman
you must have gone to the same woodshop school I did, measure once cut twice - switch to backup plan LOL

Nah, he cut it exactly the length he wanted. He just wanted the wrong length. smile
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 02/12/13 02:16 PM

Anyone own a DW735 Planer(Dewalt)? Reviews are excellent on the planer but loads of complaints on the low quality knives Dewalt is supplying with it(poor wear characteristics) . I can get a great deal on the planer 'til the end of this month but the knife issue is bothering me...there are after-market replacements although they seem to get mixed reviews.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 02/12/13 02:31 PM

I own a Dewalt planer but not that one.

I got a tiny nick in one blade disappointingly early on but they are reversible, so I just flipped it over. Eventually, I sharpened them. I can't really say if I felt they dullened quickly or not as it is my first set of blades. Nothing to compare to.

My advice would be to buy some oversized Japanese water stones & angle guide and sharpen them yourself. A good set of stones doesn't take long to pay for themselves compared to buying blades. Also pretty much required for maintaining chisels and hand planer blades.

Kind of fun too. There is something strangely satisfying about creating a mirror finish on your now deadly sharp chisel.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 02/12/13 02:35 PM

Hey, Murph, are there any instruction sites you recommend for sharpening? I've got a Japanese stone and a guide of some sort, but I've never gotten good results.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Got Wood? - 02/12/13 03:14 PM

No, but I got a woody.

Click Here
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 02/12/13 04:40 PM

I bought a WorkSharp 3000 a few weeks ago that I like. I think I'm also going to get this Woodcraft kit specifically for doing my lathe chisels.

I used that WorkSharp on my old, cheap bench chisels and it got them to better than new. Ditto on a hand planer blade.

I have a 6" Jointer and a 13" Planer though, and I'd like to see what the better system would be for those blades.

Ken, sharpening seems to be an art in itself, and there are people who are really anal about it. I decided to bypass that learning curve and throw money at it. You may (or may not) want to Google "scary sharp" for one methodology.

FWIW, one of the biggest reasons why I'm willing to throw $$ at a system specifically for the lathe tools is that they require frequent sharpening....and if I have to step every 10-15 minutes to sharpen, I want THAT process to be accurate, repeatable and very, very quick. I'm not going to pull out a series of stones to take 10 minutes sharpening for every 15 minutes of wood turning.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 02/13/13 08:56 AM

Hey Mark,
Here are some key things I learned from my neighbor back when I lived in my hometown. He was a master carpenter and by "master" I mean he was like a 6'3" Yoda of woodworking. I wish I had spent more time over there before he passed away but wood working wasn't exactly a priority for me when I was young. However, he would often teach me a few things as I needed help with repairs because my Dad's job kept him away all days except weekends.

It was actually only a couple of years ago that I bought stones again but his advice is still sound.

Basic Tips
- Some stone types take longer to pre-soak then others. Make sure they are sufficiently saturated or they don't work/get wrecked.

- Keep the surface good and wet but without rinsing off too much of the slurry buildup. It's actually the slurry that is doing a lot of the cutting.

Here was the key for me that he pointed out. It removed all of my previous frustrations.
- When I started, I wasn't rubbing long enough with the lower grits so I was wasting too much time and energy with the higher grits. If you keep checking, you can see the polish area build up as the blade starts to flatten against the stone. Don't switch to to a higher grit until you see the Entire blade surface is polished. That means it is now flat and the higher grit will now touch it all evenly. If the higher grit can not touch the entire blade evenly, then you are just wasting your time.

- Use a honing guide to hold the blade at the correct angle. Especially for hand planer blades where the correct angle is super important. Most guides come with an angle setting tool to set the various proper angles.

- Pick a guide that has a bevel mechanism. That is to say, when you have it perfectly sharp and polished, you twist a lever or whatever and it raises the blade angle just a degree or two. Do three or four more passes over the stone to create the sharper bevel angle right at the tip of the blade. This extra bevel makes all the difference in the world.

- I built a wooden jig that locks the stone into my water tray (an old, square tupperware cake dish I salvaged). I glued some rubber pads to the bottom of the dish to keep it from slipping on my bench. You obviously need need to be able to hold the stone steady. A tray is not required but it will mean that you don't soak and stain your bench from all the slurry.

- I have a sheet of plate glass that I picked up from a window shop and a small bottle of silicone carbide grit. If you suspect that the stones are losing thier perfect flat shape. Pour some grit and water onto the glass and rub your stone all over the glass. The glass is naturally flat and the resulting slurry will true up the stone.

Stones (you need more than one.)
I have four different grits of stones. I find the reversible, 1000/4000 is all I need if I don't get lazy and let the blades go downhill to far.

I have a 200 that has come in handy when I have chipped a blade on a surprise nail and have to take a lot of metal of to get it flat again. I also pull it out if someone brings me a really old or beat up blade that needs a lot of work.

I have an 8000 that is really just a polishing blade but I find even the 4000 gives me a mirror finish. I only use the 8000 when I'm feeling particularly energetic or want to feel like a samurai.

Why bother?
It sounds like a lot of work, but once you realize you can and should use the lower grit longer than you think, it actually becomes quiet fast and effective. Sometimes it just feels nice to do something old-school as well. I also find it safer for my more valued chisels as I'm certainly not praised for my steady hands.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 02/13/13 09:02 AM

Question for you Mark?

How do you plan on sharpening the curved lathe tools. Tim, the wood Yoda mentioned above (not The Toolman), had a huge hardwood block where he had a strip cut into it by each one of his lathe tools. He had sticks of some kind of rubbing compound that he rubbed into the channels. He then rubbed the lathe tool down the channel that was naturally the perfect fit for that tool.

I've seen this technique and the compound described in Lee Valley catalogs but I've never owned a lath or carving tools so I've never tried it. His tools were always razor sharp though, so I know it works.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 02/13/13 10:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Murph
Question for you Mark?

How do you plan on sharpening the curved lathe tools.

As linked to earlier, I plan on purchasing a WoodCraft sharpening kit that consists of an 8" slow-speed grinder and Wolverine jigs (shown here on YouTube).

It seems like it's a very fast way to touch up your lathe tools as you're turning. My understanding is that lathe tools really don't need a mirrored, ultra-sharp edge the way bench chisels and planer irons do. The jig allows you to maintain the proper angle.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 02/13/13 10:39 AM

Excellent, thanks, Murph!

To be shamefully honest, I'm not even sure what grit my stone is without looking at it. Obviously I need more than one...
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 02/13/13 10:53 AM

Apologies Ken for putting Mark's name at the top of my post to you. I probably had my question in mind about the curved lathe tools when I did that.

Mark.
Thanks for the vid. I wasn't envisioning the tool for rotating the round blades on the wheels. Although my old sharpening Yoda would probably have gasped at the jagged edge and uneven bevel it showed as a result in the video. However, you are no doubt correct. You probably just do not need the level of precision on a lathe tool that he would have aspired to.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 02/13/13 11:01 AM

The other sharpening system that I've already bought (the WorkSharp 3000 sytem), has worked extremely well for my chisels and plane irons. What I still have to explore is what will work best for my power planer blades and Jointer blades.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 02/13/13 11:08 AM

I forgot to mention the second use for the plate glass and the honing compound. That's how I sharpened my plane blades. I use a home made guide to keep the correct angle and the larger surface of the glass allows me to rub the entire length of the plane blade evenly.

I'm sure there is a quicker, powered solution but this works for the amount of times I feel I need to do my plane blades.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/09/13 04:53 PM

Finally got warm enough weather today to finish installing the pulleys and link belt on the saw. It's gotta be the best $60 I've spent in awhile. It sounds better, feels better, and cuts better. Fence is next; I'm looking at a Vega Pro 40. Any opinions?
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 03/11/13 08:23 AM

Still running with the stock fence on my Ridgid saw. It definitely could be better but it's better than many and stays true once you carefully set it up.

I think an upgraded miter gauge will be my next add on. I'd like to get rid of the slight looseness in the t-track slide. It's tiny but makes me paranoid.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/11/13 10:20 AM

See, it's the "carefully set up" bit that I'm trying to avoid. The Craftsman fence could be said to be true if you carefully set it up, but it takes about 10-15 minutes to really get it right.

Anyone running an aftermarket fence?

I also got a couple things done on my project--the carcass of the shelf is assembled, and I put together the top for it last night. Pretty happy with how that looks, with pine framing and a maple ply center. A few nicks and dings here and there, but they add character, right?
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 03/11/13 10:24 AM

Pictures??? Where are the pictures???
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/11/13 10:42 AM

If it's not raining, I'll take some pics tonight.
Posted by: BrenR

Re: Got Wood? - 03/11/13 01:09 PM

This has been my latest project:



Cocobolo inset on the forestock and as a recoil pad spacer, and there's one inset into the skeletonized grip cap:



(that's right after gluing and before shaping, of course)

Still have to do a curved inset down the pistol grip.

Bren R.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 03/11/13 02:54 PM

Impressive Bren!
Shaping the stock must have been a real labor of love. Great job!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/11/13 10:10 PM

Piiiics pics pics pics:


The top




Part of the carcass (on end)




Another shot of the carcass, showing me getting out of hand with the pocket holes




Close up of some dings in the plywood on the top




My new arbor pulley and link belt




A finished shelf, which I was basically using as a test for finishing for this bookcase.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 03/12/13 10:40 AM

Looking good!
Your pocket hole jig is sure paying for itself.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/12/13 11:01 AM

Especially since it was a present!

Yeah, I misremembered the instructions on the side pieces as "two inches apart" rather than "two inches from the side, then 6-8 inches apart."
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/12/13 11:09 AM

It'll be "extra strongly"!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/12/13 11:19 AM

Like I'm gonna waste the godawful expensive screws on all those holes!
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 03/12/13 11:26 AM

Obvious use... Put Blue LEDs in those holes.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/12/13 12:18 PM

I love it! smile
Posted by: BrenR

Re: Got Wood? - 03/13/13 11:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Murph
Impressive Bren!
Shaping the stock must have been a real labor of love. Great job!

The stock started out as a cut blank off a stock duplicator - it's got the right basic shape to start with. Not like I began with a chunk o' tree or anything. Too many specific measurements to start from scratch with drop, cast and length of pull to just "wing it."

Though they do normally make them from the factory to fit a guy about 5' 7" I think... 13 1/2" length of pull is pretty standard... I'm 13 7/8" for a carbine or skeet gun, 14 1/8" for a rifle or trap gun.

Still waiting for spring to finish shaping it... every time I run my hand over it, I find another spot with a flat on a curve.

Bren R.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/25/13 05:20 PM

I've taken on a few projects in the shop over the last two weeks and thought I'd share them with those that are interested.

I purchased a Dust Deputy Cyclone unit for use with my shop vac. I have a 1-micron HEPA filter on my shop vac, and I love it's power. But emptying it and cleaning the filter is a pain in the butt and messy. So far, the cyclone unit is working great- all the debris goes into an easy-to-empty bucket, and nothing goes into the shop vac itself to clog the filter.



I built this cart based upon plans from WoodSmith. I didn't follow the plans exactly, but modified the idea for my needs. For starters, rather than building the platform, I bought a cheap cart from Harbor Freight Tools. I also built a storage trough for vac accessories and to wrap the cord and hang the hose:



When the bucket needs to be emptied, the 45-degree fitting slides right off the top of the Dust Deputy and the hinged part lifts up to allow the bucket section to slide right out. The hinged part also keeps the whole top of the cyclone more robust. I really like the unit as a whole, but if you hang a heavy hose on it and pull it around, the top of the bucket (where the cyclone attaches) flexes more than I'd like. So that hinged piece prevents the top of the cyclone from bending forward.

The next thing I did (last week) was to finally setup the Jet Mini Lathe I bought almost a year ago. I had it mounted on a miter saw stand temporarily, but that was in the middle of everything. So I re-purposed this old steel workbench with a beefier top and enclosed the back and bottom with a piece of white masonite to make the area brighter and easier to clean of shavings. I've found very quickly that using a lathe requires sharp tools (that liked to be sharpened frequently) and that "freehanding" it didn't work. So I bought a new, larger grinder with a Wolverine Jig as part of a Sharpening Kit that Woodcraft put together and mounted it right alongside the lathe so I can take a step to the left and quickly re-sharpen a tool.



As usual with me, I can never do something simple. It always grows into some huge multi-faceted project. That would be fine if I had the time to complete said project, but it usually means nothing gets done because I'm waiting for it to all come together. Well, I took some good steps on a huge project: A miter saw work station. For starters, I mounted a huge Jet air cleaner on the wall. This air cleaner was purchased two years ago. See? I TOLD you guys I buy tools but never use them!!



In this next photo, you'll get a better idea of how it will all be laid out:



I purchased two workbenches (again, from Harbor Freight) because they're cheaper than if I bought the wood. Plus, if I had to build the two workbenches it would have been another two years before I started the project! I have a 12" Dual Compound Sliding miter saw that's a beast. I don't use it as a portable! Anyway, it will be mounted on a "bridge" between the two leveled workbenches (my floor is not level, so everything starts off as "wrong"). You might be able to see that I mounted heavy-duty levels on the legs of the workbenches.

The top of the saw will be even with the tops of each workbench so I can handle very long and large pieces. I'll build a fence for the top of each workbench to keep things square to the saw.

The area behind and above the saw (under the air filter) will be somewhat enclosed in a "hood" with a 4" port to go to my big dust collector. In addition, the saw has a 1.5" vac hookup. In the photo, you'll see a wall-mounted shop vac on the left and a yellow box on the wall outlet to the right of the center area. This is a switch that will cause that shop vac to turn on whenever the saw is powered on.

I'm also going to build a bit of a "tray" and mount it in front of that air cleaner's platform. This will give me a place to keep safety glasses, pencils, etc., and it hanging down in front will also block glare from the fluorescent light that I'll mount under there.

This photo does, admittedly, show the area much more "open" and clean than usual. I had an electrician come in this morning and install four new 20-amp circuits and those outlets on the back wall. There are two 20-amp circuits in that outlet that has the yellow box, and there are two more 20-amp circuits continuing down the left side of the photo and through the wall on the left.

That wall separates out an old root cellar that's about 8'x10' (a root cellar has a dirt floor. I think the point was that it stayed cooler for people who do canning of veggies and stuff....though I don't really know for sure). Joyce and I have never made any use of that room. But the reason I had those two isolated circuits run into there is that I plan on putting in a cement floor and moving two bulky (and coincidentally noisy) tools into there: The dust collector and compressor. I might even put some insulation on those walls to absorb some of that noise. Rick, I'll be looking to pick your brain on cement!

For all the joking about me turning 50 next month, I feel like I'm kind of re-assessing my life. I'm tired of working so many hours and the more I move towards setting up this workshop as I want it, the more I'm being reminded over and over that being in the workshop brings me immense joy. I'm spending more and more time down there each weekend. I have a couple of cheap DJ (read: loud!) speakers down there so my activities always have a soundtrack.

Of course, the ultimate goal is to actually build stuff. Right now it's somewhat odd in that I'm using the workshop to simply improve the workshop. But although there ARE many times of immense joy, I'm frustrated that it's still so disorganized (I still haven't gotten it back to where it was before I disassembled it all for the asbestos removal) and there are too many instances of doing what I did yesterday: Pay $10 for two long bolts to mount that grinder only to later find a box of 30 of them that were left over from a project several years ago.

Each of these steps of late move me towards having the workshop set up properly so I can work without frustrations.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/25/13 05:42 PM

Very cool, Mark! I know who to call for a wheelchair ramp smile.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/25/13 07:44 PM

Originally Posted By: GodOfWood
I didn't follow the plans exactly, but modified the idea for my needs.

But of COURSE you did. And I bet you put in those radiused corners, too. You modest so-and-so. smile
Posted by: jakewash

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/25/13 08:06 PM

I have had my DD for a couple years now, Best accessory I have added to the shop in a long time. Last summer I re-did my garage storage/workbench and added a miter saw station with the DD mounted beside the table. Hmmmmm........can't find the pics I took, guess I should clean up and take some new ones.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/25/13 08:44 PM

Gotta say, Mark, I need some in progress shots of your builds to make me feel better about my own meager talents. Because your finished stuff is puuuuuurdy.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/25/13 09:34 PM

Thanks guys! But it's still utilitarian..... I haven't yet attempted any real furniture.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/25/13 09:58 PM

Wait, you have all this stuff in your shop and you haven't done any real furniture? Time to get cracking, man!
Posted by: CV

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/26/13 12:44 AM

Great stuff, Mark. I should show my dad. He would be impressed, I'm sure.
Posted by: medic8r

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/26/13 08:38 AM

Mark, that's awesome stuff. Will you do the same for me if I buy you some Olive Garden? I'll make sure to include the Black Tie Mousse Cake!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/26/13 08:44 AM

JP, you know I'll do anything for Black Tie Mousse Cake.

Oh, I would do anything for Cake, but I won't do that.

No, I won't do that.
Posted by: Murph

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/26/13 08:51 AM

I am jealous of all your stuff Mark. Very well thought out.
Most of all though, I'm jealous of all your space.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/26/13 11:05 AM

Very impressive, Mark. I envy your skills, organization and space. I hope and trust that all this sawdustery is bringing you joy.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/26/13 11:13 AM

I want some black mouse cake too.
Posted by: Murph

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/26/13 11:47 AM

Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Very impressive, Mark. I envy your skills, organization and space. I hope and trust that all this sawdustery is bringing you jJoy.


Fixed that for ya Tom.
I expect she avoids the workshop but maybe if he builds her some furniture.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/29/13 05:22 PM

Just to prove that I screw up (often), here's a problem for which I can't figure out a solution.

I like to put those electric "candles" in the windows over the Holidays. Joyce doesn't. She's concerned that the cat or dog will knock one off the window sill and start a fire or, at the least, get glass in their paws from the broken bulb.

So, this past season, I decided to build a wooden "bracket" that would slide over the edge of the window sill and, if necessary, be screwed into the bottom of the window sill.

So, I checked the thickness of the sills, built a prototype, and tried it on five different windows. Perfect. I bought the wood and setup a little assembly line to make them all. I glued the pieces together. And they didn't fit.



They are made from equal-length pieces of (IIRC) 1X6, 1x2 and 1X4. The 1X2 is the "spacer" that determines how tightly the top and bottom pieces hug the windowsill. And, evidently, the 1X2s I bought and used to build these were not quite as thick as the one in the prototype I built.

Now, I can throw these in the trash and start over. But I also figured I could save these by taking some of the thickness off the area marked in green or the area marked in red.

This is the candle holder shown upside-down:



I tried using a grinder with a sanding disc on the "red" area. But I couldn't get all the way into the corner as needed. I just tried using bench chisels on the green section, but either it was messy going against the grain or, with the grain, I couldn't get the chisel into position.

So.....

Can anyone think of a tool that could "get into the groove" and remove wood from the green section or the red section?

I've been keeping all of these in a bin in my workshop while I try to think of a solution.

As I type this, I'm thinking more and more that I should throw them out and start again.

But there MUST be some tool that could do this???!!!!?? smile
Posted by: medic8r

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/29/13 05:24 PM

Beavers. Beavers are good for eating your wood.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/29/13 05:29 PM

Do you have a M/T jig? If you did, you'd just clamp piece to it, set the distance to the TS blade and rip away. If you don't have a jig, you can sill figure out how to run the piece by the TS blade, keeping it at 90 deg, but not pinching the work between the blade and the fence.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/29/13 05:37 PM

Yeah, that's probably how I'd go about it, albeit not as carefully as I should. You should be able to get the red part easily that way.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/29/13 07:55 PM

I DO have one Michael! I'll have to take a look at that option in the morning! Thanks!!
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/29/13 10:29 PM

Wow, Mark, that is awesome!!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/29/13 10:31 PM

Mike, do you mean that you shouldn't use the fence at all, or just be careful that your fence is properly at 180° to the blade so you avoid binding?
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/30/13 09:10 AM

Saw evenly through the center piece, and glue in a thin extender piece of something. Wood, plastic maybe.

Then put on some Rolling Stones music and paint it black.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/30/13 09:31 AM

That's actually a good idea. Cat. I hadn't thought of that. I'll have to see how small the nails are that I used, but an old blade that goes through nails safely might do the trick if they were small-gauge pins.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/30/13 09:35 AM

Anyone have any tips on evening out wood without a plane? Here's what I mean: I'm assembling a bookcase/cabinet and one of the legs was about 1/8" too tall on the top, reaching over the sides and top braces. Obviously the top wasn't going to be on solidly, so I grabbed my handy fine toothed hand saw saw and went at it. Which of course produced an angle downwards rather than a nice 90° cut. I think a plane would have worked better, although the bit I was cutting was only a 1x2. How could I have done this better? As it stands, this thing will be about 1/2 wood putty...
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/30/13 10:04 AM

Photos? With red and green highlights? grin

So, you're basically asking about trimming down a 1X2, cutting cross-grain, on a piece that already IS installed or not installed?
Posted by: michael_d

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/30/13 11:28 AM

Originally Posted By: Ken.C
Mike, do you mean that you shouldn't use the fence at all, or just be careful that your fence is properly at 180° to the blade so you avoid binding?


I always take care when ripping something small. Bad things tend to happen. When you pinch anything in between the fence and blade, chances for something going wrong go up. This thing of Mark's just looks to me like an opportunity for something to go wrong if he were to try and rip it without a jig. I treat router tables with even more care. Never, never trap the work between the fence and bit.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/30/13 11:35 AM

I've had badness happen with binding on my fence, but I put it down to having a crappy fence that was poorly set up. Fortunately, no one was standing in the target area. The piece of wood hit the door of my shed pretty hard, though.

Clearly I need to look up what a M+T jig looks like.

Mark, you've got it right. The piece is installed. I've already messed it up, but if it happens again...

I'm also trying to fit several other pieces of 1x2 between uprights (making the cross on an H) that I cut sliiiiiiiightly too long. So I've been trying to trim them down with a very small, high tooth count saw and then sanding them to fit. Kinda works. Sorta. I'll probably cut the rest on the table saw once I have one of my example pieces almost exactly the right size. Of course, I'll have to do it freehand, since my fence doesn't go out to ~4ft. Nor do I have space for a fence that does 4ft, sadly. Not that it would WORK with lengthwise 1x2s, now that I sit here and have a little common sense about it. Maybe with a jig it might, but that's kinda beside the point right now.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/30/13 12:31 PM

A tenoning jig:



Basically, it's designed to safely hold a vertical piece safely while riding in the miter slot. I haven't had a chance to see how it would work with one of these pieces yet.

Ken, aren't you talking a crosscut? I'm unsure what you mean by your fence doesn't go out to 4'. If you're crosscutting that 1X2 to be a touch shorter, the miter gauge would be used on the saw. A fence is used when ripping long pieces.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/30/13 12:37 PM

THAT'S SO COOL LOOKING. No way could I afford one of those... Those are way less expensive than they look.

Crosscutting the 4'. Yeah, I know about the fence length. Which does raise the question, how wide a fence do I really need? I'm looking at a 40" to the right one, but the one below it is only 26". I kinda want something in between. Just thinking out loud here rather than doing it in the shop where I'll hurt myself by doing something stupid. Just wish I could get more precise cuts with a crosscut. It's frustrating.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: The Mother of all wood posts! - 03/30/13 01:58 PM

I have the Delta jig. I love it.

A good fense makes everything sooooo much easier, better, more enjoyable, etc... After installing one, I was immediately pissed at myself for not doing it sooner. If you're wondering, the fence I went with was an Incra. I liked it so much, I did the same to my router table. The fence is just freaking cool. Kind of a PITA for space though. The T-bar sticks out quite a bit.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 03/30/13 06:55 PM

Ken you might want to consider making a cross cut sled or you can buy one
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/30/13 06:58 PM

Ken, do you have an extension attached to your miter gauge?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/30/13 08:18 PM

I don't right now. I do have one lying around I use from time to time. Today's cuts went fine, I just clamped my example piece to the stock in one place then both together with the miter gauge, and got pretty decently sized cuts.

So the assembly on the cabinet is all done, save for attaching the top, which I am finishing separately from the rest of it for ease of coverage. Oh yeah, and putting plugs in all those extra pocket holes I drilled.

Sadly, I need to trim the end off of all of those plugs for a good flush fit. Ah well. A bit of hand work, and it doesn't need to be precise.

First coat of shellac is on both sides of the top, and I'll probably toss on a second coat on one side tonight.

Crosscut sled looks like a good idea, thanks Jason.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 03/31/13 11:51 AM

That's a nice looking fence, Mike, but I think it's a little too expensive for me, and the space limitation would be difficult. My "shop" is our shed, which is not tiny, but it's also probably only about 15' square--and my equipment isn't the only thing in there. I should probably just go with the 26" Vega, but there's always that bit that says, hey, you MIGHT want to rip a 40" wide piece of plywood... Or worse, a 30" wide.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 03/31/13 12:01 PM

Ken, I've got a big capacity fence (52", I think) and the rails seem to be more in my way than anything else. Not to mention it's awkward to cut sheet goods without help.

I bought a set of these when they had a great sale price on three lengths together as a kit, and I only use THEM now when cutting sheet goods. Put a decent fine-tooth blade in a circular saw and the results are actually very good.

The only thing I don't like is that I have to spend some extra time setting it up to make absolutely sure it's set up square.
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Got Wood? - 03/31/13 06:07 PM

Those work great when a table saw isn't handy or doing the one man show and your pickup is the helper.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 03/31/13 08:53 PM

For large sheets I built this rack minus the guides. I wish I had taken the time for the guides, it would save time clamping straight edges onto the sheets.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/13 12:12 AM

Someone I see about twice a year. Was a carpenter all his life. Then a couple of years after retirement, lost 2 fingers to a table saw. If someone with that kind of experience can lose fingers easily, it keeps me from wanting a table saw. I've never even used one before.
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/13 01:50 AM

A lot of lost fingers are those of experienced carpenters who don't share our fear .They make table saws now that stop when your finger gets near the blade. I love wood working, really relaxing and keeps you in the moment, its meditative for me and gives a great sense of accomplishment regardless of the outcome. smile
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/13 03:10 AM

I was struck at how casually Adam Savage handled his table saw (and other tools) when I was watching a little web short of his on making a gun case. It was actually pretty frightening at the same time as it was impressive. I certainly take a lot more time setting things up, and my saw gets turned off the instant I'm done cutting the piece. That said, I still do stupid things (see half of this thread), but I try very hard to be safe with my fingers.
Posted by: brwsaw

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/13 03:25 AM

Wish I had a shop, tools and the ability for Zebra wood.
I'd consider custom sleaves for the M80's.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/13 06:59 AM

I'd like a Sawstop cabinet saw. Not only for it's safety features, but because it's a very well designed saw anyway. I'll wait till I have better shop space, though.

Ken, I watch a lot of woodworking TV shows and I'm always amazed how close they let their fingers get to that blade. I'm probably more timid than I should be, nut will oftentimes find another tool or method if a tablesaw cut just "doesn't feel comfortable to me".
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/13 07:49 AM

Ken, for making small, flat adjustments to small objects, another quick and easy option is a benchtop belt & disk sander. They have guides to keep your piece square and with gentle pressure, you can be super accurate.

You can pick up benchtop sander for a hundred bucks on sale and feel like you have gotten your money back in no time at all. Also, it's one of the very few power tools where a decent but relatively inexpensive one, works as good as an expensive one. The one thing to look out for is some "super cheap" ones are hard to set up and keep the guides square.

Mark, not having a proper M&T jig, I probably would have fashioned a jig out pf scrap wood to support and slide the piece as I ripped it across the tablesaw, as suggested. Essentially, it would have fit inside your "J" shape turning it into a solid block again. Add cap pieces at the ends to keep it from popping out during cutting. Also, by having it a solid piece with caps at the end, there is no place for tear out.

Always lots of ideas for any problem eh? That's one of the things I like about woodworking. The problem solving.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/01/13 09:21 AM

Originally Posted By: Murph

Always lots of ideas for any problem eh? That's one of the things I like about woodworking. The problem solving.

Murph, that's funny, because that's one of the things that I've always enjoyed about woodworking as well.... and likely why my lack of ideas with particular problem was bugging me.

I'm still working on my workshop of late. I'm both excited that I'm getting it into "workable" condition (lots of problem-solving here) and equally frustrated that I have no room to work.

I used my biscuit joiner for the first time yesterday with the small blade for face frames (making cabinets of drawers). The tool doesn't go back in it's molded case with it's current setup, so I left it out when I was done. I must have moved it 8 times yesterday because I have NO freakin' horizontal surfaces to use until I get organized. Yet I can't get organized till I have a place to work!

Business has been quiet lately. I won't mind that at all if I can just make some progress in getting this shop set up!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/07/13 03:57 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
I'm still working on my workshop of late. I'm both excited that I'm getting it into "workable" condition (lots of problem-solving here) and equally frustrated that I have no room to work.

I used my biscuit joiner for the first time yesterday with the small blade for face frames (making cabinets of drawers).

I got back to this project and finished it today. I now have 6 very deep drawers (28" with full-extension drawer slides) to start organizing stuff and get it all off the horizontal surfaces.

Even though these two cabinets were only for the workshop, I treated them as an exercise towards eventual nicer stuff.

God, I love my workshop when I can actually work in it!



Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/07/13 04:13 PM

Installed:

Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 04/07/13 05:53 PM

Mark, I am in awe of your wood.



Let me rephrase--I am in awe of your woodworking skills. I wish you would make more stuff and post all the time in this thread.
Posted by: CV

Re: Got Wood? - 04/07/13 06:00 PM

Mark, you're awesome.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 04/07/13 08:06 PM

Really nice.

Furniture for your shop. Overachiever.
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Got Wood? - 04/07/13 09:45 PM

Would you mind coming over and building me a chest of drawers to replace my parents beautiful mahogany chest. My sister took it home with her when she came to help me clear out my basement. wink

Really nice work, Mark. I have wood envy.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Got Wood? - 04/07/13 10:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Ajax
I have wood envy.


Thought I'd only ever hear Bob utter that around here.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 04/07/13 11:50 PM

I love the juxtaposition of the nicely finished drawers with the utilitarian bench legs.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/13 05:07 AM

Ha! I put in that workbench when we bought the house. It's 16' long if I remember correctly and the base is all 4X6s. It's rock-solid, but for good or bad, I followed the "level" of the floor so the workbench top is not level. OTOH, if I had built it to be level, one end of it would be thigh-level. smile
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/13 08:39 AM

Peter, they're not utilitarian, they're distressed.

Mark, like I said on facebook, those things are gorgeous. If this is what you can do when you've "never made furniture," I expect the wood equivalent of the Sistine Chapel out of your next project.

My humble shelf is so close to finished, I can taste it. That's not a metaphor, by the way, I got some shellac in my mouth yesterday.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/13 09:10 AM

Originally Posted By: Ken.C
My humble shelf is so close to finished, I can taste it. That's not a metaphor, by the way, I got some shellac in my mouth yesterday.


Ken, were you the kid in preschool that ate the paste?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/13 09:13 AM

Nope. The one who fell down a lot, I think.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/13 09:39 AM

Originally Posted By: PopeBobAltarBoy
Originally Posted By: Ajax
I have wood envy.


Thought I'd only ever hear Bob utter that around here.


Excuse me?
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Got Wood? - 04/08/13 06:06 PM

Originally Posted By: PopeBobThe53rd
Originally Posted By: PopeBobAltarBoy
Originally Posted By: Ajax
I have wood envy.


Thought I'd only ever hear Bob utter that around here.


Excuse me?


grin wink
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/09/13 08:43 AM

What? No lock rabbet joints for the drawers?????

Other than above !!SCANDAL!!, it looks great! Nice work!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/09/13 09:11 AM

I thought I'd get crap for not having dovetails!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/09/13 02:50 PM

Today's project:

I built this "audio equipment box" a few years ago but never finished it. I decided that I could free up lots of space on my workbench if I could get this off of there and wall mount it.



The design goal was to allow ventilation while blocking out dust. There are lots of big ventilation holes on the top that will be covered with speaker cloth, and those "slots" on the sides will be covered with the speaker grilles that I had saved when I trashed the two JBL subs that I had back in the day. I just drilled out four holes on each side to install rare-earth magnets and broke the "tabs" (?) off of the speaker grills to attach washers. I ran short of magnets and had to order more, but will attach the other grill on Thursday.



The front has a piece of plexi in a frame, but the whole thing is hinged to swing up to reveal a small shelf under the "hood". This is sized to hold CDs and a telephone or two. The holes on top allow me to hear the phone ringing, but everything will be protected from dust once I put the speaker grill cloth over those holes on top. Speaking of grill cloth, you can see one of the cheapo PA speakers in the background of this shot. These didn't have grill covers, but rather had exposed drivers. I bought the grill cloth originally to cover the front of these. Cheap or not, I figured that if I allow sawdust to get on/in the drivers, they would have a much shorter life.



Here the unit is wall mounted and the right-side grill cover is installed.



I haven't wired it yet, as I want to take Buddy for a nice long walk while the weather is at it's best. But I'll wire it up tonight.

I can't be without my music for too long down there! smile Any time I moved, setting up my stereo was always my first priority so I would have music to enjoy while unpacking!



Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/09/13 03:03 PM

I am having flashbacks to the comic "Sylvia" which sometimes featured "The lady who does everything more beautifully than you."

Very nice, Mark!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/15/13 06:40 PM

Bought an oscillating multi-tool to help with the reno's. Awesome and useful tool for cutting thru nails or lumber in hard to reach areas like the kitchen bulk-head I just tore out.

Also scored a DW735 planer for $449 the other day, woot woot!!!
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 04/15/13 06:46 PM

Pics or it didn't happen.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/15/13 07:09 PM

We've been taking a lot of before/after pictures, Tom. At some point I'll have to post some pics...redoing the kitchen now.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/15/13 07:21 PM

I would like one of those DeWalt planers. If I had known you were going to buy one, I would have bought out the store's stock. grin
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 04/15/13 07:32 PM

Looking forward to hearing more of your story, Adrian.
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Got Wood? - 04/19/13 09:56 PM

Not that i've been following this thread too closely (man you guys post alot eek ), but i may have a project upcoming.

We're going to buy a Big Green Egg tomorrow and are trying to decide whether to purchase the $700 pre-built table or to build our own. I'm working out the cost of wood but it will depend on whether we use basic materials or something more interesting (e.g. pine 2x4 framing or cedar framing, generic deck board surface or an "exotic" species for a surface, etc.).

This is a fairly simple project by woodworking standards, but i don't have a workshop, just a garage that needs to have the cars backed out and a bunch of things tarped over before i can do any dusty ripping on the table saw. Plus i don't have use of the garage for this activity for much more than a day or two (i could do the finishing/staining work in the basement though).

Here's an idea of the table from the store.
http://www.biggreenegg.com/eggcessories/nests-tables-mates-shelves/long-table-for-egg/

A few other table ideas:
http://silverspider.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/big-green-egg-table-cedar-ii.jpg
http://static.cl1.vanilladev.com/biggree...b5787e80ed9.jpg

Some of the more interesting surfaces we would consider for the main table top:
http://www.windsorplywood.com/Sycamore_Finishing_Lumber.aspx
http://www.windsorplywood.com/Walnut_Finishing_Lumber.aspx

Anyone have any thoughts to add?
Should we buy or build? (time alotment to build may be a factor and notably we cannot use the new bbq until the table is together)
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Got Wood? - 04/19/13 09:57 PM

On another note, some of you may know this website but i just came across it.
GREAT tips!
I wish i had known this before i first tried to stain a maple table for the wine cellar.

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/coloring-blotchy-woods/
Posted by: real80sman

Re: Got Wood? - 04/19/13 10:19 PM

Chess, you will love your egg. My biggest regret was not buying one before I left my last job. (We were a BGE dealer) Try to get them to throw in an extra gasket, as a high percentage of people will over-fire the egg within the first year. The gasket doesn't survive.......
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Got Wood? - 04/19/13 10:24 PM

Originally Posted By: real80sman
Chess, you will love your egg. My biggest regret was not buying one before I left my last job. (We were a BGE dealer) Try to get them to throw in an extra gasket, as a high percentage of people will over-fire the egg within the first year. The gasket doesn't survive.......

Is that the wool fibre gasket or the high temperature option?
I've read there are two (one is an 'upgrade').

I certainly hope i don't get the egg up to too high a temperature. After all, i DO want to cook on it, not process iron ore.
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Got Wood? - 04/20/13 06:07 PM

Well i don't got wood, but i do got a large Big Green Egg now.
Posted by: real80sman

Re: Got Wood? - 04/20/13 08:01 PM

Originally Posted By: chesseroo
Well i don't got wood, but i do got a large Big Green Egg now.

“but I do got charcoal.”
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/20/13 08:31 PM

Finished my toybox shelf today! I will post pictures tomorrow, but right now my daughter is sleeping in the room that it's in.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/13 07:06 PM

And I'll get to that picture sometime...

In the meantime, recommendations for a miter saw? I'm not listening to Michael, since he'll recommend one that costs more than my house. wink
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/13 09:02 PM

Here I am, replying to myself. Here's the pics:


The top, which I am particularly proud of. Ignore the poor pocket hole filling and plugs on the inside...


Occupied with the bins.


And another shot occupied. I really like what shellac does in terms of depth of finish and bringing out the grain, as well as the lovely satin/gloss you end up with (even without all the wax I put on it.) Like I said before, I built this from pine 1x2s and maple plywood.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/13 09:17 PM

Ken, I think that's awesome! Great job!

I have two miter saws that I like: A beastly Makita 12" slider and a much-more-manageable DeWalt that I use as a "portable".
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/13 09:18 PM

BTW, did your daughter just wake up from April 20th?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/13 09:46 PM

Heh, no, just got distracted. And then the kids made a mess.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/13 09:48 PM

So Mark, do you have the laser for the DeWalt? I have to admit, the geewhiz factor of a laser appeals to me. If it works.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/13 10:18 PM

So I'm thinking the DeWalt 717, with one of their stands and a Freud 80 tooth 10" blade. I'm really happy with that blade on my table saw, but I'm kinda wondering if maybe I should get a lower tooth count, just so I have both available. But I'm honestly not sure when I would use the lower count blade. Advice, oh wise ones?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/13 10:35 PM

Ken, depending what you will be using the mitre saw for, I would get a DUAL beveling saw of 12", with sliding bearings for the extra width capacity and if it were me I`d also get one with a tall fence which is necessary for jobs like crown mold. Dewalt, Makita, Bosch etc, all make nice saws so I`d look for the best deal on any one of them. I`ve been using a Craftsman 12" dual bevel slider for a few years with various Freud and Hitachi blades...it's a reliable saw, but I wouldn't recommend it due to some poor design features that are somewhat dangerous imo.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/13 10:39 PM

Ken, my Ridgid miter saw is available for long-term loan. I'll likely have little use for it in the new rental and it'll save me having to move it if you keep it in your shed and use it at will. If I do anything with tools

I found that the laser was pretty accurate. If you find that it's not shining right on the cut line, you can adjust the angle of the beam with a little hex nut.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/13 10:47 PM

Thanks Peter. Let me bounce it off of J. She pretty much gave me carte blanche to purchase tools for projects today, so... wink

Adrian, I don't really have space for extremely large tools (my shed/shop is about 16x16 and is rapidly becoming full of tools, bikes, toys, etc...) so a dual bevel sliding 10 is about what I'm looking for.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/13 10:49 PM

Personally, even though my saw is equipped with a laser, I always bring the saw down to the line before I turn it on and cut it. Remember, the laser only works from one side, so to speak, as you have to compensate for the blade width if your setting up from the opposite side. The laser sounds like a good idea, but in reality I find it uneccessary.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/13 11:20 PM

I like the laser and use it all the time. It makes it so much easier to cut in the right spot.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 04/28/13 11:23 PM

You could use one these in tight spaces but it is pricey. This is the one I want to buy if/when I can afford it.

http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?pid=GCM12SD
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Got Wood? - 04/29/13 12:07 AM

Wow $800 at Lowes. I paid about $100 for mine at Lowes and working just fine, but don't use it all the time, so should last me.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 04/29/13 01:26 AM

Really beautifful, Ken.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/29/13 07:02 AM

That Bosch is earning a great reputation and it certainly takes less space than other-brand equivalent sliders.

As always, you have to look at what your needs are. I got that big Makita because it allows me to crosscut very big pieces down to size, which I wouldn't feel I could do safely on my own on a table saw. But I'll admit that it was too heavy, awkward (and maybe even delicate?) to bring to and from my parents' house all the time so I bought the DeWalt for use on a stand.

The Makita has a laser and the DeWalt doesn't. Personally, I like the laser. Yes, it only aligns with one side of the blade, but that means 50% of the time it's used. It's not really necessary, but I use it.

There's never a substitute for a good blade. Cleaner cuts, less strain on the motor, and safer to boot. High tooth count is good, because it's not a combination blade...it's crosscuts only (obviously). The blade that came with the Makita was very good and meant I didn't have to buy another. I DID buy some "lesser" blades though for when I'm cutting PT 4X4s or PT 2X16s!
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/29/13 07:49 AM

Really nice job Ken. That shelving unit thingie looks great.

Nothing to add on the saw choices as it's all great advice above. I'll just also echo that having a couple of different blades is often overlooked but almost as equally important as having a good saw.

At a bare minimum you want two blades to work with. A 'quality' finish blade with 100 plus teeth and then also a faster crosscut blade. A high tooth blade is definitely better when doing finish work (cabinetry, small parts, etc.) but it cuts an awful lot slower & will slow you down if your just doing framing or rough cuts (building a deck, house etc.) Sometimes you will just want to slice and dice.

Contractors & savants, like Mark, will have two miter saws at a job site to save time. One with a cheaper (in case they hit nails on reclaimed lumber) but faster cutting crosscut blade and another saw with a higher quality, 120 tooth finish crosscut blade. This cuts down on blade swapping or getting lazy and not swapping to the better blade when needed. The saw with the low tooth number blade is (at least around here) referred to as the "chop Saw".

A personal pet peeve.
An inexperienced store dude might suggest a good "combo blade" as a more simple solution but but remember that a "combo" blade normally refers to a table saw blade that it is designed for both cross cuts and for ripping. Since you physically can't rip in a miter saw, the 'combo' part is kind of wasted. Hopefully they are just borrowing the term to refer to a middle of the road crosscut saw that is decently fast but still doesn't chip too much.

Another note:
Table saw blades can be freely swapped into a miter saw and vise versa (assuming they are the same basic size 10", 12") but once again, the right blade type for the job is what counts the most.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/29/13 08:56 AM

I did not realize that there was a difference between table saw blades and miter saw blades. I will have to double check what I have in my table saw!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/29/13 09:11 AM

If you have the wrong kind, it can explode into a fireball!!! grin
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 04/29/13 10:04 AM

Eh, that's not the most dangerous thing that saw can do.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/29/13 10:16 AM

It's a pretty big explosion. By "pretty", I mean "huge". And, by "huge", I mean "pretty huge".

And, of course, by "pretty huge", I mean it's big.

Don't mess with me on this. I have years of describing things in "huge" terms.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/29/13 11:36 AM

Nobody bit?

It's because I have that huge miter saw!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 04/29/13 11:52 AM

Better keep this thread on the rails before Mark starts bragging about his 12" slider...

I believe it's been brought up before, but Dewalts saw BLADES are the weak point on their saws. Freud make some nice blades at reasonable cost and their heavy duty/industrial blades are better than the "regular" Freuds found in your local HD or Lowes.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 04/29/13 12:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Ken.C
I did not realize that there was a difference between table saw blades and miter saw blades. I will have to double check what I have in my table saw!


Actually what I was saying is that table saw and miter saw blades are indeed mostly the same and are interchangeable from one to the other. It's just the "Combo blade" that is 'kinda' table saw specific because it is designed for ripping as well. You could still use it on your miter saw though. Huge explosions aside, of course.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 04/29/13 03:03 PM

"boom!"
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Got Wood? - 04/30/13 12:46 AM

Ken, that looks fantastic! You really did an awesome job on it.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Got Wood? - 05/02/13 10:12 PM

Good video/lesson on table saw kickback .
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 05/03/13 12:16 AM

Holy crap. That was close.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 06/02/13 09:59 AM

So I've been thinking about buying more power tools... 'cause. I don't have any current projects that would need more than I have/have borrowed, but I've got some cash burning a hole in my pocket.

So I was looking at a router setup, but BOY that seems like a huge money sink. There's a router, a table, a table insert, a fence for the table, bits... Still, it seems like a shop essential to help me take my woodworking to a higher level.

Any recs on decent equipment? I'm thinking that a benchtop table will work best for me in the space I have, since I don't think I've got room to do a table saw attached table, as convenient as that would be.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 06/02/13 01:16 PM

IT kind of depends on what you would be using the router for, Ken. You might consider getting the router first, I'd suggest a 2 to 2 1/2 hp plunger type/fixed base kit, to familiarize yourself with it. I have a Bosch 1617EVS with both bases, so far only used the fixed base to make some homemade plinth blocks out of 1" mdf sheet cut into strips. I'd like to get the Milwaukee 5625 fixed base for an in-table installation someday...that router is a beast!!
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 06/03/13 09:02 AM

I agree that the table is not "required". Although, having said that, I use my table much more than I do using the router on it's own.

You can buy a table that has the fence and various inserts included. However, you still need to spend some $ to get a good one. Cheapos = extremely hard to adjust the fence and the insert fittings can be a wood ruining, catch point if they are not perfect. In short, if investing in a table, don't go for the budget ones. Wait until you can get a good set up.

Another option is to build your own. If you check out wood working magazines, there are constantly new plans for all sizes of router tables, from simple to complex. Most home made versions allow you to get a much superior product without spending the premium on the really high end tables. It will still be an expensive project vs the budget models but you will be much happier and have bragging rights.

You can do pretty much anything, router-wise, without a table though and even with a table, there will still be times you need to disconnect it and use it freehand. In fact, it will make you really wish that you owned two routers so you can leave one permanently affixed to the table.

So I agree. Buy the router first and learn how to confidently freehand it. Then, as cash allows, use it to build yourself a nice table.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 06/03/13 12:23 PM

Any opinions on this one? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00779N...;pf_rd_i=507846
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Got Wood? - 06/03/13 03:40 PM

Ken have a look at Skil. I bought an 1830 which takes both 1/2 and 1/4 shank bits. It has a light which is super handy with all the dust flyin around. If you into round overs at all they are mostly 1/2 shank bits.Lots of stuff you can do with the router. I made dado's for my stereo cabinet, cut holes for speakers using a circle cutting attachment.Also the 1830 can be a fixed base or plunge which is handy.
Posted by: Joe_in_SC

Re: Got Wood? - 06/03/13 07:25 PM

As expensive as the router seems, over time the bits and accessories will likely add up to a lot more. I have several routers and dozens of bits, and a homemade table. It's an extremely useful tool that can do joinery, edge shaping, circle and curve cutting, rabbets, dados, grooves and much more.

My advice would be to invest in a good 2+HP 1/2" router with a plunge and fixed base. Start out with a basic set of carbide bits and add to it as the need arises. I tend to buy mid-quality bits and replace them when they invariable chip or get dull.

You can definitely make a serviceable table for well under $100 out of some melanine and a T-track kit from Rockler or the like. Having a stationary set-up dramatically increases the usefulness of a router.

If you feel the need to spend a little more money on routing, there are a couple of things that I use a lot. One is a laminate trimmer, which is great for light duty edging and round-overs. The other is a Leigh dovetail jig. It's pricey but makes true dovetails (not the hokey rounded corner ones). The purists may flame me for this, but I can make a dozen drawer boxes in a couple of hours that you can't tell from handmade.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 06/04/13 01:28 PM

I have several routers. Out of all of them, I still find myself reaching for my 'old' trusty PC 690 that I've had for about 15 years. It's just damn easy to use, easy to hold, easy to adjust, etc, etc....http://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-690LR-11-Amp-Fixed-Base-Router/dp/B00005QEVQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370365852&sr=8-1&keywords=pc+690+router

I bought a new Milwakii fixed/plunge kit a couple years ago, thinking to replace my 690 when it finally dies, but I still use the PC. http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-5616-24-...rds=5616+router

The 5616 is one heck of a router, and pretty comfortable, but I still prefer the 690.

If you are set on a table set up, do it right the first time. The best table router motor is a PC 7518 (you can buy the motor without base for less). A good insert with lift is mandatory. I have the Pinnacle lift and love it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlOIyGeJtOk

I use the Incra fence, and love that too. For table, I just built Norm's table from New Yankee Workshop, but made the table a bit larger. You can buy the plans and a video to build it.

http://www.symionic.com/newyankee/index.php?id=53#!/~/product/id=7916628
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 06/04/13 01:31 PM

Cool, thanks Mike! The two Porter Cable options seem like the most cost effective plan, at least if I'm going to be crazy enough to buy two of the things. We'll see what I actually end up doing; really depends what I want to build next.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 06/05/13 09:37 AM

Well, last night I built something simple, largely by hand, and remembered that great feeling of satisfaction that one gets from woodworking. My wife wanted a pattern to lay out in the garden beds for planting; a simple 3x3 of 1 foot squares. I figured I could knock that out pretty quickly out of scrap wood I had around, and I was right (where pretty quickly=~2 hours). Gotta say, chisels are awesome. That has to be the fastest I've ever built anything, and that includes time cutting some uprights for a garden fence I'm building, which is taking a lot longer.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 06/05/13 12:14 PM

Woot Chisels!!!
I figured you would bring 'stabbity' into your new hobby sooner or later.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 06/05/13 12:21 PM

Ken, I'm sorry that I'm late with this.

I use a Triton 2 1/4HP router in my router table and I like it....though it operates differently than most. It has some safety features that, for instance, don't let "B" happen unless you've already done "A". OTOH, it has built-in, through-the-table height adjustment, variable speed, and such which make it a great router for a table. I've told myself that if I needed more power, I'd but the Triton that you linked to.

Mike mentioned his PC favorite; I have a variation that I like better than the 690: The 691 which is essentially the same thing but with a "D" handle. I find it more secure and like the trigger switch as opposed to the switch on the top that most routers use...requiring you to start it with one hand off the router.

I also have a DeWalt 611 kit as a compact router, and it's awesome. Very-highly reviewed.

The thing you start to find is that many woodworkers have more than 1 router....some have 5 or 6. Different designs fit different needs. My GENERAL rule of thumb is that I use the smallest router that will do the job...simply because it's the most comfortable.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 06/05/13 12:55 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
I use the smallest router that will do the job...simply because it's the most comfortable.


With just a slight edit, there is a pretty good "That's what she said." joke in there.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 06/08/13 08:49 AM

I find it interesting that a number of routers are as powerful as many milling machines(Bridgeport, Excello...). That's a lot of handheld power when you think about it.
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Got Wood? - 06/09/13 09:56 AM

Keep in mind that routers (drills, saws, etc) are all direct drive (Skil saw worm drive not so) and that the HP rating is peak and has limited torque - put too much load on it and the motor stops. For a mill or lathe the motor power (torque) is multiplied many times over through the adjustable sheives that regulate the RPM of the too - put too much load on it and you have a broken tool or work piece while the motor keeps going.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 06/10/13 07:46 AM

I once had a bicycle accident where I put too much load on it and ended up with a broken tool. I don't recommend it at all.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 06/10/13 07:58 AM

Broken tool? That must have been wrenching.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 06/10/13 10:23 AM

Broken riser bar? Say it ain't so!
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Got Wood? - 06/10/13 08:21 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Broken tool? That must have been wrenching.


Somehow I just knew the "tool" jokes would be rolling in after that quote...
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 06/11/13 07:44 AM

I wouldn't have said a word but I knew you were expecting it.
I riff to please.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 06/11/13 08:03 AM

I please to riff.
Posted by: BrenR

Re: Got Wood? - 06/19/13 01:25 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
I please to riff.


Audience participation: "Say hello, Riff!"
Riff Raff: "Hello."

Audience participation: "Show us your mummy"

Bren R.
Posted by: medic8r

Re: Got Wood? - 06/19/13 02:30 PM

An African or European swallow?

Wait, wrong cult movie.
Posted by: BrenR

Re: Got Wood? - 06/19/13 03:03 PM

If I were a serial killer, I'd be African and European.

Bren R.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Got Wood? - 06/21/13 02:51 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson


Mike mentioned his PC favorite; I have a variation that I like better than the 690: The 691 which is essentially the same thing but with a "D" handle. I find it more secure and like the trigger switch as opposed to the switch on the top that most routers use...requiring you to start it with one hand off the router.

My GENERAL rule of thumb is that I use the smallest router that will do the job...simply because it's the most comfortable.


I have a Bosch D handle router. I just can't get used to it, so I don't ever use it. Interesting how so many of us have different preferences with regards to tools. Probably a really good justification for tool fondling at a store to make sure that whatever a person buys, it is a tool that will actually get used...

Ken - here's a couple pics of my router table with the Incra fence. There are times when I want the fence to run the length of the table, and times when I want it to the right, so I made it movable. When cutting dovetails with the Incra, I move the fence to the right side. The little gauge with cable is a digital bit height gauge that I was figuring out where to mount. I have since mounted it to the table.



Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 06/25/13 08:18 AM

That is one beauty of a router table!!!!
Please put it in your will for me.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 07/03/13 08:03 AM

So I've got a line on an 8" jointer and a 15" planer for $1K total. They're both rebuilds, being rebuilt and sold by a guy I took a sharpening class from. He's a pro woodworker and seems pretty trustworthy. It seems like a good deal to me, but there's a few wrinkles:

1. They're big and my shop/shed is small--like 12x15 small--and full of crap. They do come on mobile bases, though.
2. They're both 240V, and I am certainly not wired for that (I'm still running extension cords out the window for my table saw), so this would be a buy now, run later once I get the electrical done type of thing.

They're both Grizzly models: The jointer is a G1018 and the planer is the equivalent of a G0453, although it has legs, not a cabinet.

What do you guys think? Good deal, wrong time? Bad deal? Oh my god don't pass it up?
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 07/03/13 09:46 AM

If you do buy them now, you're going to want to get an electrician out there sooner rather than later so that you don't have $1000 worth of obstacles in your shed. smile

Also, since we're talking about spending your money, to extend your shop space, I'd consider putting a pergola in front of the shed. You could put retractable shades on the sides and top, and even install a ceiling fan beneath it. Great place to work on projects. Plus, when it's not in use as your indoor/outdoor shop, it'd be a great outdoor space to gather around a chiminea or fire pit in the fall and winter. smile
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 07/03/13 11:08 AM

I had never thought of that, Peter. We were just talking about tearing out the shed and putting in a garage, but clearly I'm talking about doing tens of thousands of dollars of work to have $1K worth of tools. It's a tough equation.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 07/03/13 02:19 PM

You could probably build yourself a nice pergola with retractable shades for ~$1k, not including the 240V and 120V outdoor electrical boxes.
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Got Wood? - 07/03/13 03:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Ken.C
I had never thought of that, Peter. We were just talking about tearing out the shed and putting in a garage, but clearly I'm talking about doing tens of thousands of dollars of work to have $1K worth of tools. It's a tough equation.



FWIW Ken, that garage will increase the value of your home immensely , (I should say it would here where I live ,may be different where you are). Plus there is nothing like working in a shop where you aren't running into yourself. Big undertaking for sure but if you love woodwork I say go for it. A guy that used to work with me built a garage from a kit he got at home hardware. Did it all himself except the trusses, all after work and weekends. Most expensive part was the cement pad.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 07/03/13 04:04 PM

Well, that'll happen at some point, but the immediate question is whether I should get the tools or not.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 07/03/13 04:05 PM

Ken, it would be hard for anyone else to help with your decision on the tools.

You'll likely have them for life, which is a good thing.

Only you can assess how deep your love of woodworking goes, and whether or not a jointer / planer would even be that useful to you (some build many projects using only pre-sized lumber from Home Depot or Lowes, never using the rougher "raw" wood that a jointer and planer are primarily used for.

These might necessitate a good dust collector. More $$.

If they are used rarely, but in your way often, then even the mobile bases won't save them from being sworn at frequently.

I guess my wrap-up is that if you are planning on seriously pursuing woodworking, go for it. If you think it will be more of a casual hobby, then hold off. The deal is pretty good considering you know / trust the seller, but it's not an amazing bargain. And tools such as these DO pop up relatively frequently when people can't really make good use of them, replace them or they're found in estate sales.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 07/03/13 08:30 PM

Thanks, Mark. I think what makes them appealing, aside from the fact the guy's a good salesman (and put up with me ruining his wet stone for 30 minutes or so) is that he's refurbishing them. I'm sure the tools pop up all the time for the same or less, but they won't be in tip top condition.

As far as the wood goes, I build nice(r) stuff occasionally when the urge and idea strikes me; most of the time I'm doing little things or rough stuff like garden beds and fences, so these wouldn't get a lot of use the majority of the time. However, when I do build nice stuff, it would be good to have the option to use more interesting wood than pine or overpriced red oak from HD.
Posted by: Socketman

Re: Got Wood? - 07/03/13 08:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Ken.C
Well, that'll happen at some point, but the immediate question is whether I should get the tools or not.


I guess you have to ask yourself if your going to build anything that requires those tools. A jointer would be great I think for getting those really square edges you just cant get with table saw alone. I would love to have fully equipped wood shop even if I am a bit average when it comes to woodwork. better equipment equals better results and a sense of gratification that can be hard to come by.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 10/25/13 09:32 AM

This is the next tool I want. And I don't even have a fireplace or wood stove.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 10/25/13 10:20 AM

I always wanted a CAT, too, for snow removal and yard stuff! Not that I would/could/should have ever bought one, but I thought they were, like, $15-20k. Nope. They are around 40k. Even if we both sold our Odysseys and pooled all of the money, we would come up $hort. Hey, I just realized, Joyce's car is almost new! That should put us over the top.

Oh, c'mon, the hospital isn't THAT far away from your house.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 10/25/13 11:00 AM

Joyce, we can give you a ride in the CAT!!(?)

I was working on her for a new lathe, but the sale ends today and I think we're going to get a pellet stove instead. It'll heat that cold kitchen that I've mentioned here (and you've experienced) as well as my workshop. Otherwise, I never want to be down there in the winter.

I have a person coming today and another on Monday to tell me if locations and venting is viable.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 10/25/13 11:30 AM

Which reminds me....
Does anyone have any info / advice they want to pass along on pellet or gas stoves?
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 10/26/13 07:06 AM

Yes, avoid rabbit and squirrel pellets. I've heard that camel dung is OK to use as long as you clean out the stove thoroughly after each use. Hope that helps.

Did you mention to Joyce how great the the CAT would be to get her to work in inclement weather?

The lathe? I thought turning was for geeks and men waaaay older than you. (Or maybe it's "men way older than you used to be?")
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 10/26/13 07:31 AM

Great. So now I have to buy a camel and feed IT before I can feed the stove?

Age is a random number. It's all a matter of how old you feel.

I feel like I'm freakin' 82.....
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 10/28/13 12:42 PM

That is one awesome machine. I can't wait until it goes sentient and goes on a telephone pole chewing rampage. Everyone knows in modern warfare, you go for the communications infrastructure first.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 10/28/13 12:46 PM

Mark I know little about pellet stoves but when you get your shortlist, do some googling on plugged augers. I have a few people who pulled brand A and went with brand B because the augers were plugging. Company A was blaming the pellet choice but company B seemed to have no trouble with any pellets.

I know, this post is useless without company names. Think of it as cautionary advice regarding a feature until I can remember to ask them what brand A was. Then I'll PM you. I don't like to globally trash-talk a company on hearsay.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Got Wood? - 10/31/13 10:33 PM

Not sure what type of unit you're considering Mark, but we just got a Real Fyre fireplace installed from RH Peterson ...looks just like a real wood burning fireplace without the cost, mess and danger of burning wood (no nice wood burning smell though).

Napoleon makes some top notch stoves and fireplace inserts too.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 10/31/13 11:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Murph
I don't like to globally trash-talk a company on hearsay.


Perhaps you've misunderstood this interweb thing.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 11/01/13 08:54 AM

Hey Adrian! Nice to see you around!

We don't have a fireplace. I light incense for that smell in the winter (Seriously- it's the only thing this house doesn't have that I've always wanted. Though if I had one, I'd likely put a pellet insert in it anyway!)

We started looking at a Napoleon funny enough. But my two primary choices now are a Hudson River Kinderhook or a Vistaflame VF170. Both are freestanding units that are more practical than pretty (it'll be in our basement).

We have a good dealer option for either of them. I just have to decide if the somewhat lower-output Kinderhook will make me wish I had a bit more output to possibly make it the primary heat source or if the higher-output Vistaflame will have me running it at a lower-effeciency "low" setting all the time.

I'm spending all my free time on a wood pellet forum learning everything I can.

That's right.

You guys don't fulfill all my needs so I've been seeing another forum on the side.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 11/01/13 08:56 AM

BTW, Murph was supposed to PM me some helpful info, but since he hasn't done that yet, I'm publicly shaming him here.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Got Wood? - 11/01/13 11:57 AM

It's true. I'm still waiting for my two friends to get back to me. I shall pass on the shaming.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 11/01/13 04:13 PM

Done. Ordered the Kinderhook. I will be able to work in my workshop this winter and, finally, after 15 years, the kitchen won't be so cold for Joyce.

I'll get some woodworking done this Winter AND likely get more pies!

Mwaaaahaaahaaa! ::Evil laugh while rubbing hands together::
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 11/21/13 04:31 PM

I finally had a chance to photograph the pellet stove today. It's hard to make it look good when it's in the basement! smile

Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 11/21/13 11:22 PM

And yet, you succeeded.
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Got Wood? - 11/22/13 06:38 AM

Ah, you rugged New Englanders.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 11/23/13 10:29 AM

Hey, its even got a window. Howcome its not in your living room so you can watch the fire?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 11/23/13 02:35 PM

I've been joking that I could put a recliner down there in front of it.

I've really fallen in love with this device! Our kitchen and basement are comfortable and cozy for the first time ever in winter, I don't mind the hands-on stuff that it requires, and I think the numbers are going to look very good for the running costs.

I DO like looking at the flame, though. I always have. I find it hypnotic, relaxing and mesmerizing at the same time. I could VERY easily see one of these in a future living room or kitchen. I honestly wasn't expecting THAT... the romance.... from a pellet stove
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 11/23/13 05:13 PM

There's a whole new chapter for JP, right there.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 11/24/13 09:42 AM

grin

You guys make it soooo worth while to come here. There is nothing better than starting your Sunday morning with a good coffee and some Mark & Tom posts.

Mark. If you and Joyce are both enjoying the stove this much, the economics make sense. Its not always just about the bottom line. If it was, we would all be listening to music on our old RCA turntable 'system' and eating gruel for breakfast.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 11/24/13 10:57 AM

Well, honestly, the stove already makes less economic sense than it would for many others. We have a Natural Gas Boiler, which is theoretically the cheapest heating source already....or at least on par with the pellets So I'm not expecting the savings that others get who are using oil, electricity or propane. Many of those people are talking about recovering their costs in a few seasons.

I just read the Sunday paper in the kitchen while eating my gruel and the kitchen was very comfortable. As a matter of fact, I didn't have any socks or shoes as the hardwood kitchen floor is warm from the stove below. And it was 14F degrees this morning with a wind chill of -10F.

Yeah, we won't get the savings that others do, but I'm thankful that is because we already have an economical main heating system. But, I was concerned that the pellet usage would increase our costs, and I don't think that's going to be the case anymore.

I have more to do, with new valves that can be put on each radiator to balance the temps around the house and, at some point, I can do a lot of buttoning-up around the house and in the basement in particular. I'm learning a lot in that other forum and know that it can all only improve from here!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 11/24/13 12:50 PM

Mark, when you say wind chill of -10, do you mean it feels 10deg lower than the actual temp, or do you mean it feels like -10?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Got Wood? - 11/24/13 01:22 PM

It "feels" like negative 10 Fahrenheit (being specific for our Canadian friends).

It's not that bad now, but it was when I was up at 4:30 this morning.

We have 25-35MPH winds (that's 40-56KPH for you in the Great White North) with gusts to 55MPH (Ahem, 88KPH......trying to stay politically correct here!) smile

In short, a sucky day to be outside!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 11/24/13 02:19 PM

Holy mc*&^%.

16 degress by that characterization here, actual 28. Cold enough for me, thankyaverramuch.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Got Wood? - 11/24/13 02:38 PM

Meh. -40 C ( -40 F) is cold. 16 is a balmy winter day.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 01/04/14 10:45 PM

Have you guys seen the Paul Sellers videos on youtube? This guy is incredible. Pretty much all hand tools, and his videos are really good. I've been watching them all day...

Example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq0p4IpCIks&list=PLD39949332C7FB168
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 01/05/14 01:12 AM

You just like his accent.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 01/05/14 06:38 AM

He sounds just like Wallace!
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Got Wood? - 01/05/14 03:49 PM

I'm not getting any sound... except the ads up front, then no sound. looks like a good series, though.

With much less finesse and skill than Mr. Sellers, I built a quick and dirty wine rack out of the cheapest pine boards I could find - but may scale it up with some nicer wood for the basement cellar when we get around to it.


Decide on bottle spacing. Drill holes.


Cut to length.


Split down the middle.


Assemble.


Test Drive.


Fill 'er up.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Got Wood? - 01/05/14 09:09 PM

Love it. There ain't nothing wrong with quick-and-dirty utilitarianism. smile
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 05/31/14 09:04 PM

I've started on (one of) my summer project(s)--a boot bench. This one, as usual, is requiring me to buy all sorts of new tools, but nothing huge. So far it's a router table, another bit for the router, some countersinks, a leather strop, and (upcoming) a dado set for my table saw with another zero-clearance throat plate.

Today I actually did some work, starting to cut up the lumber. Kinda went downhill when I made one cut too many, then cut a couple of other pieces too short, so I'm going to need to go buy some more lumber. Sigh.

On the other hand, the day ended on a good note when I discovered I'd done a pretty good job sharpening my block plane blade. I was able to successfully shoot a piece of plywood, which was just plain awesome.

Bonus points if you understood any of that...
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Got Wood? - 06/01/14 04:18 PM

What do I win?
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Got Wood? - 06/01/14 04:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Ken.C
I've started on (one of) my summer project(s)--a boot bench. This one, as usual, is requiring me to buy all sorts of new tools, but nothing huge. So far it's a router table, another bit for the router, some countersinks, a leather strop, and (upcoming) a dado set for my table saw with another zero-clearance throat plate.

Today I actually did some work, starting to cut up the lumber. Kinda went downhill when I made one cut too many, then cut a couple of other pieces too short, so I'm going to need to go buy some more lumber. Sigh.

On the other hand, the day ended on a good note when I discovered I'd done a pretty good job sharpening my block plane blade. I was able to successfully shoot a piece of plywood, which was just plain awesome.

Bonus points if you understood any of that...


With filthy language like THAT, you'd better hope lots of people get those "points."

A "boot bench," you say?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Got Wood? - 06/01/14 08:04 PM

Yeah, I got some funny looks from my wife when I pulled out the leather strop, which looks remarkably like a paddle.