Since our last three vehicles have all been Jeeps, I promised my wife that if we ever needed a second car she could choose what it will be. For my wife, that meant Austin Mini or VW Bug.

This morning, I dropped off a 2004 Mini Cooper Classic at our mechanics after looking at all I could in the parking lot. It only has 64,000km (39,700 miles) and he is advertising for $8,500 Can. and she currently has him at 7500 (The "because you work with me" price, )

He has informed us that it needs a universal on the steering shaft that his dealer claims is really hard to get right now and told him to buy the whole shaft (I think he might be being shafted as I sourced the part on several US parts sights I use.) and it needs a wheel bearing. It has already had the steering unit and steering unit fan replaced (it's an electric-hydraulic pump... if your like me and wondered, "why a fan?") and my research tells me this is a part that got replaced on almost every mini from 01 to 07 but that the replacement units are lasting. Fans are still subject to snow damage due to placement so one still must be careful if winter driving.

Cheapest one I found east of Ontario was $9,500 with a lot more wrong with it. Average seemed to be 10,500 to 12,500. So this seems to be a great deal. Even if I have to put some parts on it and she decides she realy doesn't like it (my wife, change her mind??? Never...LOL), I already know people who will buy it for the 'average' price range.

Seems like a sweet deal but I'll hold off until my mechanic looks at it. Only thing I noticed when I drove it there and spent some time with it was that the muffler was rusted way more than the rest of the underside which looked good. The muffler probably would need replacing within a year. Also there is a noise from the belt assembly somewhere. It's packed in too tight on the side to locate by ear but is likely just a bearing.

I was pleasantly surprised by the room in the front. I am 6' even and thought for sure I would be uncomfortable but I can stretch my legs out fully as long as there is no rear passenger. It's pretty tight back there though. We have no kids so meh...

Anyone have any experience to share?

Friend of mine bought a used 'S' model back whenever the gas went through the roof, can't remember the year (newer) but it had something like 60+k miles and I'm thinking he paid around $13-15k for it, had to do some minor work but other than that he really likes the car ... although now that the gas is down he's back to driving his lifted Dodge Cummins as a daily driver again.

Maybe not as cool as Pinto station wagons but they are cool cars!

Murph, a couple of things to keep in mind about the Mini.

They do get very good mileage, but you have to remember they also require premium fuel which IMO brings their 'superior' mileage down to Mazda 3 levels(below a Civic for eg). I have no doubt the Mini is a fun ride, but the premium fuel requirement turned me off somewhat, compared to the competition.

The other MAJOR thing to consider is the running costs. Repairs on Minis are extremely expensive if required. There have been some complaints about bad trannys which can cost more than the car to replace(upwards of $10G!!). I'm not sure if this is BMW gouging or if they are using pure scandium gears in their trannys or something. You might have seen on the news, over the last year or so, a woman (I think from Ontario)who had a problem with her Mini trans and BMW wanted more than $10G++ to replace it. OUCH!

The Mini has good resale value, but the running costs and premium fuel convinced me to look elsewhere in reg's to a smaller car. I am still driving my economical Z71 4x4 at the moment, and will probably drive it into the ground before getting something newer/economical.

Tharkun, a former regular around these parts has a newer Cooper. I make Coopers, Coopers beer that is...

Thanks folks.
I was not aware of the fuel requirement. What does premium equate to in octane levels in this example?

I was aware of the tranny issue. However, my research to date shows that the largest issue was in the automatic transmission. There are indeed some scary stories there. This car is a 5-speed manual.

2001 to 2003 the manual also had problems with the gearing going bad within. However, it could be rebuilt with new gearing for about 2 grand (not at a dealership), a large part of that being labor due to the fact you have to disassemble so much of the car to get it free. In 2004, the gears in the Midland 5-speed were replaced and reported to have the problem solved. In 2005 it changed to a Getrag but I didn't look into it much as it does not apply.

In any case, the 04 manual transmission in this particular car seems to have a relatively good history so hopefully it's a non issue. There is still a known issue with the shift cable detaching, leaving you stuck in whatever gear you were in last, but there is an easy and cheap proactive fix.

Still, I commend you for pointing out the potential issue. It could have been a biggie so thanks.

I think a lot of people with horror stories of pricing fiascos fall into the trap of believing that the dealers are the best place to keep taking your car after the warranty expires. Sure, they know the car inside and out but a dealer, in my experience, will never rebuild something and use no ingenuity at all in parts replacement.

Although, I must say I wasn't able to source individual parts for a recent locker problem on my Jeep and had to buy an entire 1200 housing, I still believe in leaving the dealership as soon as All warranty expires. Their markup on parts alone is enough to make you mad, even if they do sell you the right one.

Premium fuel generally means 91+ Octane AFAIK. Given the same price, obviously you want to go to Sunoco(94+ Oct).

...or, you might get away with Sunoco mid-grade, not sure of the Octane rating though. 91-92??

Thanks for sharing your research, gentlemen.

I have been thinking of a "next car" and had considered a 5M Mini, so the information is very helpful.

Thanks Adrian. I wondered if the term "high octane" by location such as Canadian vs. US standards.

My understanding of using a lower octane fuel in a car with modern fuel injection is that the computer will compensate by slowing the timing a bit for the delayed burn and the car will probably run fine (depends on the car) but it will be more sluggish, less power (again the amount depends on the car.) So I researched this too. The Mini manual says it requires 91 octane. Word from forum boards is that it will run on lower octanes but the engine is very susceptible to feeling the added sluggishness. Go too low and it will ping.

Anywhoo, I added that info for Tom to save him looking around as I did for the real effects of octane levels on a Mini Copper engine. Personally, I would be very happy with the fuel savings it will get compared to my modified Jeep, even at premium prices. I'd prefer the cleaner burn in my engine and the added power vs. the cost.

Update:
Our mechanic said that aside from the two items the owner already informed us of, the car is in excellent condition and was obviously not driven hard. Everything runs well and everything is tight from the suspension to the clutch.

Another note for Tom:
After looking at it under the hoist, I can certainly understand why you have to be careful with the power steering pump fan. It is located very low to the ground and faces almost straight downward. Snow would most certainly clog it up and I think regular cleaning would be required after any time on dirt or dusty roads. This won't be a winter car for us and I tend to poke around my vehicles when I'm bored anyways so the fan should have a happy life.

It seems this car indeed the good deal we hoped it was and it should be ours by the end of the day.

This article might be of interest to you on some of the myths and facts about 'octane'.

hmmmm, I don't think I fell into the "myth" category but one item does have me thinking where you might have confused my more/less power statement as a generality on the gas itself.

Myth:
• High octane gasoline increases power.
If your car is designed to run on 87 octane gasoline, you shouldn’t notice any more power on high octane
gasoline.

It says "If your car is designed to run on 87 octane...."
Now, what about an engine specifically designed for a higher octane? I could be wrong but it still makes sense to me that the resulting automated timing adjustments in this particular case would result in slightly less power than what the car was designed for.

If a car was designed to use high octane, it will almost definately compromise some of your power and driveability if you try regular gasoline in it. I'm not a mechanic, by any means, but I would suspect that continued use of regular fuel in an engine designed to run on higher octane ratings would eventually damage the motor, and void any warranty(if the manufacturer knew).

I don't own a Mini, but I've *almost* bought one twice. On both occasions the reason for not buying came down to a disagreement with the dealer on price. They are tremendously fun little cars - especially the S models with the manual. So long as you're ok with little cars. I am, but some people think they're too claustrophobic. I have read of a few maintenance horror stories with Mini's, but nothing outside of what one can realistically expect from a European car - they're generally fairly pricey to get worked upon.

Regarding octane... Yes, it is a myth that putting 91+ octane in engine designed for 87 results in more power. Your lawn mower isn't going to make any more power on super premium. But, it is NOT a myth when the engine is designed for higher octane gas. If an engine's management system is designed to take advantage of the higher compression ratios possible with higher-octane gas, then you will get more power when running higher octane.

In many cases, even in 'higher octane recommended' cars, you can get away with using lower octane gas because the ECU will adjust engine parameters (timing, ignition, turbo boost/wastegate, etc) to prevent knocking. But you will get less power and possibly less MPG when it does this. See the owners manual to be sure though, as there are a few very high-performance cars out there that 'REQUIRE' premium gas. I doubt a Cooper or CooperS fall into that category.

The last several cars I've owned have all been "premium 90+ octane recommended" cars. So I'm used to the premium (literally, ha!). The price difference between 87 octane 'regular' and 91-93+ 'premium' is almost always $.20/gallon. Whether gas is $2.50/gallon or $5.00/gallon. Which means it costs $2-$3 per tank extra for premium. IMHO, if your budget can't handle the extra couple of bucks per fillup, then you're probably not looking at the right car for you.

That's accurate as I understand it, Murph. But to extend it, if your car is designed for 91, 94 won't help, either.

Correct!

In my experience, cars that want 'premium' actually want 90 or 91. Cars that want 'super premium' want 93+. The only car I've ever been around that had that requirement was a Subaru Impreza WRX STi.

In my area, the common grade choices are 87, 89, and 93. Sometimes 92, very rarely 94. Thus, most of the time I go with 93. Not because 93 is better than 91, but because it's the only choice for my cars.

Oh, and one more thing.... if you're perusing forums about European cars and octane, and people are talking about gas grades of 93,95,98+, they're talking about European octane ratings. Euro gas doesn't have a higher octane content than US gas, it's just rated differently. RON vs. R/M, or something like that.... I believe that Euro '98' = US '93'

Hey Murph,

How is your new mountain bike? We've had beautiful weather here for the past couple weeks, which would be perfect for riding; hope you're getting the same, my friend.

As a side note, Teri informed me today that her friend is riding to Brazil. Yes, you heard me right, riding a bicycle to Brazil. He has the year to do it.

Now that would be an amazing ride!

You may already know this (in any case, others may not), but if your car requires 91 octane, and all you have to choose between is 89 and 93, you can mix grades: half a fill of 89 and half of 93, and the mix will be 91. Could save you a little $.

Thanks for all the confirmations folks.

And Cam, the Opus is by far the best bike I have ever owned. I have always owned cheap, heavier, 250 dollar type brands and had to constantly adjust the derailleurs and often had to choose between the highest gear working or the lowest as I couldn't stretch out both. This thing is light and gearing runs smooth and silent, almost in a relative stealth mode.

I've been putting a lot of time in on our "Confederation Trial." This trail was great for getting my bad knee back in shape because it is all from reclaimed railway lines so there is never more than a few degrees of grade. You can basically go 400km tip to tip of the Island without ever doing a hill.

Now that my knee is exercised again, road hills are no problem but I won't be playing on the alpine trails in Brookvale any time soon.

Thanks for asking Cam.

Wow, Brazil. I'd love to bike through Brazil but I have no ambition to get there on one. Sounds like a VERY long hot ride but I'm sure it will be a wonderful adventure. Please let us know if he sets up a travel blog.