if we start a beer thread, will it be hi-jacked by those who wish to discuss speakers and wine, or that addicting stuff called ht gear? the ht gear comes with no warning labels..

BigWill will undoubtedly want to talk about spirits too

So, how about that Baseball all-star game

No, seriously Dan, thanks for helping me focus my malt related ramblings in one place. Otherwise, I'd have had to start searching for "beer" in new posts everyday.

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin

Is this the beer thread? I just wrote a bunch of garbage somewhere else.

Don't you guys have jobs?

I usually lurk on this forum, but I just couldn't resist this topic. *wink* Here's my top picks.

1. Chimay Blue (Red and then White)
2. Anchor Portor and Steam Ale
3. Samuel Smith's Imperial Stout and Oatmeal Stout
4. Redhook ESB and Sunrye Ale
5. Guinness of course

Fat Tire (Colorado) and Red Seel (California) are two west coast beers you should try should you be lucky enough to live some place that can get them.

Will Said in another thread...

In reply to:

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IMHO, if it's an all malt beer (or fitting for the beer style), balanced (or fitting for the beer style), and free from defects, the argument about quality is specious. Though Becks is mass produced, it would be difficult to say it is of inferior quality to an expensive Belgian ale. Liquor is another story, however.

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Beautifully said! I could not agree with you more. Perhaps I should be more careful about using words like "enjoyable" or "preferable" rather than "good" Your point is excellent; American Premium Lagers (Miller, Bud, etc.) are technically flawless, define the style, and nobody should call them "Bad" beers. Yet they certainly lack the character and depth that I seek in a beer-drinking experience. Plus, all that rice in Bud gives me a crushing headache.

I guess the "judgement" for me relates to not only the issues of accepted style adherence and lack of technical flaws, but also to that "enjoyability factor". Some people simply prefer some styles to others, and even within style there is enough wiggle room for some significant differences. I prefer hoppier Porters and fuller IPA's; not everyone does.

Tell me more about your liquor "quality" observation - I'm very interested.

tomtuttle,

Have you had the opportunity to partake of the deliciously quaffable Bear Republic Racer 5 (Healdsburg, CA), which I consider to be the best west-coast IPA?

Robert Pirsig was the "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenace" guy right? Didn't he go crazy and kill himself? I'm trying not to think about all that veneer stuff too much.

Adapting his philosophy to blind liquor, beer and wine purchasing at stores like Trader Joe's has been good, though. Basically: buy expensive stuff that comes with crappy labels, no stories, gold foil, etc... Bound to be good, just poorly marketed.

Quality in liquor is more objective than in beer because of the distillation process. Depending on which part of the distillation is bottled, the price and quality of the spirit will be affected. The foreshots are toxic, if I remember correctly, and the feints? or last runnings are of poor quality - harsh, medicinal, whatever. Obviously, to obtain max yield (and profit) one would blend as much of the poor quality stuff as he could. Additionally, there are two types of stills commonly used: the pot still and the continuous still. From what I understand the pot still is less efficient, but is capable of yielding finer spirits (discarding the foreshots and the last stuff). Further, many spirits are double or triple distilled - removing more impurities each time. Doesn't mean it's going to taste better, but it does seem to yield stuff that is less likely to give you a hangover. I have a triple distilled single malt Scotch that I bought in quantity at $12.99 a bottle that goes down like water and causes no distress in the morning, but many connoiseurs shun it because it is too light tasting and it is a lowland malt. But the quality cannot be disputed.
Also, the amount of time some spirits spend laid up in wooden barrels improves their flavor - quality I don't know.
Regardless, all of these things that improve quality also decrease yield and should make the product more expensive to produce. In zymurgy, it's a slap bang process that utilizes basically cheap ingredients, has a quick turnaround time and demands less precision from the maker. There is little you can do in brewing beer to justify the exorbitant cost of some of these beers. Specialty malts and rare hops are just not that expensive.

The easiest way to demonstrate the differences in quality of liquor is to buy three bottles of Cognac from the same maker - one VS, one VSOP, and one XO ($20, $30, $100). Drink a third of one bottle the first night, a third of the next a couple nights later, and the last a couple more days later. Besides the huge difference in taste (in refinement of what should be the same basic flavor) between the three, you will notice that the better stuff leaves you feeling a little more spry in the morning.

Gotta go, my glass is empty.

Not that I'm a beer expert, but I do know that beer in a clear or green bottle normally equals skunk juice! It's apparenly how light affects the beer. Corona tries to get away with their skunk juice by suggesting lime with it as if were to make it more refreshing (they dare not mention masking the skunk taste!). I admit it...I fell for it about 13 years ago while in college and thought it was such a cool concept because of the lime. That was before I was choosy about my alcoholic beverages. Now it makes me ill thinking about it because I hate skunky beer.

Ahhh, drinking in the young days (late 80's) reminds me of even more sickening memories...Sun Country Wine Coolers (in the 2 liter bottles), MD 20/20 (Mad Dog), Malt Duck, and all the other cheap alcohol at the time.

To think of all I've missed with teetotaldom. I imagine the job will drive me to drink one day. I'm taking notes for that very occasion...

Peter, I've not had that beer. Thank you very much for the recommendation - I'll look for it! I like a good West Coast IPA, but don't get Brits (or certain others) started on the topic of "true" IPA. There are those change-resistant folks who deny that American application of Columbus/Cascade/Chinook hops to that style is an abomination rather than expansion to a new and distinctive style. I used to really groove on that big hop nose and grapefruity flavor. But the palate fatigue is just killer - after a couple, I really can't taste much of anything. If you can get a good one on cask, then you've got something.

Will, thanks so much for sharing. I know too little about distillation, and your tutelage is welcome. You nailed the Zen reference; much of that book revolves around a search to define "quality". It seemed pretty deep when I was 18. In retrospect, it seems a bit ponderous and self-indulgent.

I really like Kentucky Bourbon. What should I be drinking?

Sonicfox - interesting that you should bring up the whole "light struck" issue. I discovered a few years ago that the CANNED version of Heineken is absolutely transcendent compared to the horrible bottles I'd been subjected to on the West Coast all these years.

I don't know a whole lot about bourbon other than what I know I like. Some possibilities:
-Blantons is the best tasting I've ever had. Costco had it for awhile but they're all gone. Was $38 a bottle there. Must be better bourbons but I've never tasted any.
-Makers Mark is a good all around bourbon. Not so expensive that you feel like a fool using it in mixed drinks, but is also smooth and tasty enough to sip straight.
-Jim Beam is as low as I'll go. I use it only in mixed drinks. Found it on sale for $13 per 1.75L bottle and stocked up last year. It's harsh straight, but doesn't seem to cause too much internal damage.
-Evan Williams Single Barrel was absolutely an awesome deal when it first came out, but prices have climbed. It could be my imagination, but it also seems like quality dipped.
-Elmer T. Lee is good. Especially if you can find it under $20.
-Wild Turkey ain't bad. I prefer the 101 proof.

I don't know if you like your booze straight, but try the good stuff warm, without ice or water, in a nice glass. Take little sips, let it sit on the palette for awhile, and go slow. You won't get drunk, but you will get mellow.

For bourbon & Coke, Makers Mark can't be beat.

This could be sacrilage, but the way I (and my wife) figure it, we don't drink enough to waste time with the cheap stuff. In other words, I use medium-good quality liquor in everything, including mixed drinks. No matter what the scientific evidence says, a fine tequila in a margarita tastes better, has a wider soundstage, transcends the live experience... Oh wait, wrong thread.

Ah yes, Jim Beam. That is the key ingredient in my wife's family's "Bourbon Slush" recipe -- a hit at outdoor concerts and BBQs.


1 750ml bottle Jim Beam
4 cups strongly brewed tea
1 can lemonade concentrate
1 can orange juice concentrate
plenty of water
plenty of sugar

Place all ingredients into a large container and put in freezer. Give it a good stir every few hours. When it reaches a slushy consistency, serve it up!

Gott'a love this.. Electronic gear, music and movies, and adult beverages, all on the same site.. Too cool..
So, can we get someone to put together a list of all the better brews and suggestions that have been listed ?
Isn't it kind of interesting, as one can grows older (I didn't say necessarily wiser) one begins to slow down and enjoy the simpler pleasures life offers ? Such as a fine painting, a well writen book, a great movie, and of course, the perfect potation to complete the moment.. Ahhhhhhh....
Here's a funny thing.. I find myself sort of role playing with a lot the movies I watch these days.. We have the sound, the picture, why not the taste ??
If it's a old murder mystery type, I'll have scotch/rocks.. If a action movie, beer, but imported or made by the same country as the primary role in the movie.. Following me here ? James Bond, you guessed it, "Shaken, not stirred".. French/wine, cowboy/wiskey, Greek/Oyzo, etc, etc..
Next time you drop in Hunt for Red October, be sure you pour yourself a shot of Vodka.. I mean, Waadka..

In reply to:

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be sure you pour yourself a shot of Vodka.. I mean, Waadka..

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Just don't go all "Ya tebya lublu" on us after you take a few shots. There's nothing worse than a blathering drunk who keeps saying he loves you in Russian -- with a bad accent, nonetheless.

I buy a lot of Woodford Reserve. I used to buy Makers Mark until I tried the Woodford.

Hey MIKEY, I recall that you are in OC. If you haven't already, go check out Hi-Time Cellar in Costa Mesa. HUGE selection of everything. It's a two story emporium of everything alcoholic. Decent prices, not the lowest on everything, but they do run some smoking sales on stuff.

Thanks Mark.. You know, I've been told about that place a couple of times.. I'm in Huntington Beach, like ten minutes away, and never make it over there ? Go figure..
Looks like ZeN will be stopping by this Saturday to give my system a listen.. I'll stop by Hi-Time and grab some suds..
What's best in this area again ? I'm not much on all the ales, micro brews, and such, as I love and drink mostly the beers Hecho de Mexico.. I've injoyed many a fine beer, but with all those brands, makes, etc, I can't keep up with it..
Any help, again, would be appreciated..

Huntington Beach sounds pretty nice right now - it is an even 100 degrees outside right now in Corona. My favorite Mexican beers are the Dos Equis Brown and Green, Bohemia, and I reckon Negra Modelo is OK. If you like Corona (the beer) you probably won't like most of the beers these guys have been mentioning. Try some of the Czech pilseners you will find at Hi-Time, some are just awesome on a hot day - nice balance of malty sweetness and fine hop bitterness. Of course, German lagers are usually excellent. The best of those I ever had was Kulmbacher Reichelbrau on tap. Haven't seen it in years, though I haven't really been looking. Bavarian wheat beers are always nice on a hot day (Weihenstephaner is a good one, but you can't go wrong with any of them). Lastly, try Lindemann's Framboise. Its a Belgian beer fermented with raspberries (3.99 at Trader Joes).

Are you referring to the lambics? Yummy twice-fermented brews. Once without the fruit. A second time with the fruit. Mighty tasty.

I sense a poll coming *wink*

Lambics....YUMMY anything from Belgium is SO good

Yeah, my wife loves them and I have to admit that I'll sneak a gulp off hers when she isn't looking. I tried for years to make something comparable with mixed results. Mine were decent beers, but nothing like the real stuff. Turns out there are a lot of homebrewers trying the same thing. They import small wooden barrels from Belgium, use Belgian ingredients (their raspberries are apparently different than ours), and do their best to imitate the crazy yeast strains in that beer. After hearing all that, I told the wife it couldn't be done.

Gotta love those wacky Belgians. We have a Framboise on special occasions (like New Year's eve) instead of champagne. It's so pretty, rich, and effervescent. But the Lindeman's is quite a bit sweeter than most Lambics. Stale hops, wild yeast, wood, fruit... and still a beer. Love it.

I like the Bohemia best of the Mexican beers by a wide margin. But, especially on draught, you can successfully argue that the best Vienna lager in America is a Mexican beer (Dos Equis Amber).

I thought I posted earlier, but must have spazzed out....

Wanted to thank you all for the bourbon suggestions. I've been devoted to Maker's Mark for many years, but will expand my horizons as you've outlined and as the local gov't outlet allows.

Thanks again Mark.. Sorry about the temp out your way.. I guess that explains your interest in the COLD an bubbly
Yeah, living a few blocks from the beach is hard to beat..
I just made a print of this thread.. Will take it to Hi-Time Cellers tonight and fill my little cart to over-flowing..

Hey I can contribute here!

You've probably seen these before, but along with malpropisms, I like historical references to our common phraseology:

It was the accepted practice in Babylon 4,000 years ago that for a month after the wedding, the bride's father would supply his son-in-law with all the mead he could drink. Mead is a honey beer, and because their calendar was lunar based, this period was called the "honey month" or what we know today as the "honeymoon".

Before thermometers were invented, brewers would dip a thumb or finger into the mix to find the right temperature for adding yeast. Too cold, and the yeast wouldn't grow. Too hot, and the yeast would die. This thumb in the beer is where we get the phrase "rule of thumb".
I've gotten quite a few email about this one. Here's what seems to be the consensus on the real story: The term "rule of thumb" came from colonial-period USA, there was a law that stated that a man wasn't allowed to beat his wife with anything larger around than his thumb.

In English pubs, ale is ordered by pints and quarts. So, in old England, when customers got unruly, the bartender would yell at them to mind their own pints and quarts and settle down. It's where we get the phrase "mind your P's and Q's".

Beer was the reason the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock. It's clear from the Mayflower's log that the crew didn't want to waste beer looking for a better site. The log goes on to state that the passengers "were hasted ashore and made to drink water that the seamen might have the more beer". Furthermore, some anthropologists speculate that Neolithic people made the switch from wandering and hunting-gathering to farming in order to raise grain to brew beer.

After consuming a bucket or two of vibrant brew they called aul, or ale, the Vikings would head fearlessly into battle often without armor or even shirts. In fact, the term "berserk" means "bare shirt" in Norse, and eventually took on the meaning of their wild battles.

In 1740 Admiral Vernon of the British fleet decided to water down the navy's rum. Needless to say, the sailors weren't too pleased and called Admiral Vernon, Old Grog, after the stiff wool grogram coats he wore. The term "grog" soon began to mean the watered down drink itself. When you were drunk on this grog, you were "groggy", a word still in use today.

Many years ago in England, pub frequenters had a whistle baked into the rim or handle of their ceramic cups. When they needed a refill, they used the whistle to get some service. "Wet your whistle", is the phrase inspired by this practice.

Sorry, acx

Honey Moon does relate to honied mead, but is a practice of the Anglo Saxons, maybe the Celts before them.

"Rule of thumb," relates to an English legal concept carried over into the New World by the common law. A man was permitted to beat his wife with a switch, but the switch could be no thicker than his thumb. Hence, the "rule of thumb." We've come a long way.

Not to pick nits, but there are a few varieties of mead - only one of which contains any malted barley. I believe that type is called "braggart".

Braggot - mead with ale
Cyser - mead with apple juice
Pyment - mead with grape juice
Metheglin - mead with spices or herbs

Meads vary significantly in sweetness and carbonation level.

Good ones are really yummy. Bad ones taste like bug spray.

Bug Spray! Yummmmmm!

I only made one mead. I still have a couple bottles left (vintage New Year's Eve 1997). When stuff lasts that long you know it sucks.

I couldn't decide which style to make so I did them all at one time. Starts out like cheap white zin, finishes like Martinelli's with a shot of brandy in it.

Rolling Rock is my old standby. Just tried a new one from California called Sierra Nevada, since I'm from there I had to try it, very tasty light ale and nearly 6% alcohol. Tsing Tao is a very nice light beer from China. Then another favorite I can't seem to find around Chicago is Henry Weinhard's Private Reserve.

Taj Mahal, a big tasting Indian beer which goes great with nuclear Vindaloos.

Sierra Nevada is what I usually suggest to people trying to move up in the beer world from Bud, Coors, or MGD.

Tasty, but it doesn't bite.

Move to Chicago and lose your favorite west coast beers, eh? On the upside, you have a plethora of new regional breweries to sample from. I remember having some excellent beers from Philly that I haven't seen available here in soCal for a long time. Don't remember the names but they were very distinctive: medium hopped, nice malt sweetness. Kind of like Sam Adams but more malt and a different hop finish.

On the way back from opening day at Del Mar we stopped at Karl Strauss in Carlsbad for dinner and beers. Their oatmeal stout was nice without the oily tannins of some oatmeal stouts. Reminded me more of a cream stout, but without the sourness. Amber lager was blah. Red Trolley Ale was very nice, excellent, in fact. Their Belgian red imitation was one of the better fake Belgians I've had, but still can't seriously compare to the real deal. So many Belgian style ales seem to just be laden with off flavors that aren't working together.

The place was also a bit pricy as brewpubs go. If you guys in LA/OC make the road trip to Del Mar, I'd recommend the San Marcos Brewery instead. It's a little out of the way, but worth the extra few miles. More convenient would be the Rock Bottom in the Irvine Spectrum - the "Chicken-Fried Chicken" is awesome, huge and cheap. The beers only so-so.

Don't let the beer thread die!

So in other words, they're really not like Sam Adams?

Same color. And also came in a bottle.

If you remember those ones from Philly be sure to post them...I'm in that area and am always on the lookout for some new good ones to try. It's nice having so many microbrewers in the area. Yuengling Lager is pretty good..started out local but they've been growing...not sure if you remember that one.

I'm in the D.C. area this week (Bethesda / Chevy Chase, to be exact) visiting my company's HQ and was wondering if anyone knows of some good brews to be had or brewpubs to be visited in the area.

???

I really only know about downtown DC area. But if you can get into the District, there are several very good ones.

Brickskeller
1523 22nd St., NW
Washington, Washington DC
Phone: (202) 293-1885

Has a unparalleled selection of bottled beers - some really obscure stuff. Strong English beers from various vintages. On Embassy row, a bit of a walk from the Metro, but not bad. A mecca. Food was only so-so for me. Funky little brick basement kind of ambiance.

Capitol City Brewing Co.
1100 New York Ave., NW
Washington, Washington DC 20005
Phone: (202) 628-2222
There is another location on Mass Ave - I like this one much better. It is in the same building as the Smithsonian Postal Museum in the old Post Office next to Union Station. (This is not the Old Post Office Pavilion, which is a spectacular place in another part of town, but I digress). Modern, medium scale brewpub. Credible beers. Big menu. Cool place. Easy to get to. No reason not to go.

District Chophouse & Brewery/ Rock Bottom Restaurants, Inc.
509 7th Street NW
Washington, Washington DC
I see that this place has been purchased by Rock Bottom. Pity. When I was there a couple years ago, it was still independent. Spectacular meats - Ruth's Chris quality (and pricing). And some of the most memorable beers I've ever had, including an imperial stout aged in oak that absolutely reeked of vanilla. Sublime. I'd call first. Near the basketball arena.

John Harvard's Brew House
1299 Pennsylvania Ave. NW
Washington, Washington DC 20004
Phone: (202) 783-2739
In the basement of the Warner Theatre. REALLY good place. Good food. Outrageously good beer, including something on cask usually. Very highly recommended. Easy walk from the Metro (sorry, can't remember the line/stop) and from the Mall.

While it's not a brewery, you can get incredible food and a fine selection of wonderful beers at the Old Ebbitt Grill, a DC institution with great art, dark wood, and a private club feel. Busy, but worth it. Not far from the White House.

Enjoy yourself. Let us know how you make out.

Yea, I miss some things about California, least of all the smog, but I did try a new one the other day, it was a berry and wheat flavored beer. A little strong but pretty tasty, I wouldn't drink it everyday, but it was a nice change of pace beer. I wanted to get more Sierra Nevada, but my g/f wanted to try this instead.

Bump! Long live the beer thread.

I'm judging homebrew at the Western Washington Fair later this month. It's my only "professional" beer judging gig. Should be fun, as always. Sometimes, you get really memorable beers at these competitions. Like the year I was judging the Fruit/Herb category and had the, um, honor of evaluating what I can only assess as the definitive Beet Beer. Incredible color, and it really expressed the ingredients. But I really don't care for beets much...

I've got a few quarts of 5 year-old Scottish Ale/syrupy shiite left. I'm sure you would find it memorable. I remember what it tastes like, that's why I use it to marinate wood chips for my BBQ.
Everytime I crack one open, though, I give it another try - just in case it smoothed out. Nope, same old shiite every time.

It might make a good beer can chicken (a.k.a. "violated" chicken).
Highly recommended method of cooking chicken. If you haven't tried it, you're in for a treat.

try substituting sweet vermouth for the beer, a delightful twist.

What do you do...marinade the chicken in beer? Boneless skinless?

Cut the top off a can of beer. Stick can of beer in a whole chicken's port hole. Grill until cooked.
more detail

no, no. take a can of beer, and completely open the top. drink 1/2 of the contents. after cleaning a chicken and removing the neck etc, stuff the can up it's butt. (that's why it's also called Beer Butt Chicken). remove the warming rack (s) from your grill. place the chicken upright on a cooking grid. turn grill on on the opposite side of the grill the chicken is on. you are using indirect heat. close the lid, temp about 350 degrees. cook about 20 min per pound. for the last 5 minutes, turn on low heat under chicken. be sure to watch the bird so it doesn't get toasted. then enjoy.
ps. maybe not allowed here, but we also sell gas grill parts.
pss. cleaning tip: to clean your grill, take a piece of tin foil. place it shiny side down on the cooking grids, and light grill on high. close lid, and wait. when you feel the fire dept is about to pull up, it's done. brush off residue.
dan

I probably should comment on the potential toxic hazard created by burning the water insoluble ink off the beer can inside a bird.
Then there is also the internal lining used by some companies to keep the beer 'fresh' that may not combust into particularly nice compounds.
But hey, enjoy the flavour!!
(If you use canned Guinness at least remove the widget first ok?)

And eating food cooked over a fire can give you cancer, but you have to die of something. If you eat healthily you don't live longer -- it just feels like you do.

My cans always come out relatively intact and undamaged --not scorched or oozing poinsonous ink.

However, if you're still paranoid, you can always substitute the can for a wide-mounth jelly or pickle jar. It just happens that the aluminum can is the perfect chicken butt plug.

Thank you peter for the lovely description of possibilities but i think i will stick to using materials that i know are free of anything produced by Dupont.

what about Nylon?

I won't cook nylon inside the bird either.
Nor polyester.
I don't believe they would be much better than the ink.
(Studies pending i'm sure.)

It was my good fortune to be able to go out to the lake yesterday and drink mass quantities. However, judging by my hangover today, one of those beers may have been of inferior quality. The suspects: Molson Canadian, Bass Ale, Sam Adams, Bud Light, Stone Pale Ale, Main St. Brewery's Wit, IPA, and Pale Ale. I'm guessing it's the Molson.

Mornin' BigWill.. Was it hot this weekend or WHAT ?!?
My wife and I also got out of town and took a trip up to the cabin.. Barton Flats, on the way to Big Bear..
Finding some bottles of Sam Adams in the fridge, I couldn't recall if I had brought it up there to get it out of the house, or as a special treat for my next visit ?
Upon popping the cap and taking a long slow pull it all came back to me.. Yuck, Banished Booze !! hahaa
Lucky for me I had stashed some Tecate up there, so all was not lost..

i,m leaning towards Bud's Light

I'm betting on the Bud Light, too. Bud uses quite a bit of rice in their mash, and it always gave me a headache until I realized the connection. Some chemist could probably explain how the size of the protiens from the different grains impacts the molecular structure of the final product, but I'd just want another cold Full Sail.

It is ALL ball bearings nowadays.

Just came back from Albertson's with a 12er of Pilsner Urquell for $11. Didn't sound real tasty at the time (and still doesn't yet), but that's too good a deal to pass up.

Had that homebrew competition yet, tomtuttle? I'd like to hear the story.

Liquid Solutions

It's basically the wine.com for beer. I just happened across this link on Fark. Looks very interesting actually. 408 different types of beer listed. Oh the possibilities....

Hey Will, not yet. It is scheduled for Aug 24. Unfortunately, there is the very real possibility that I may have to move that weekend and be unable to judge. I'll keep you posted. Thanks for the link, Adam.

Nice link Adam. Pretty good prices too, though I didn't check shipping costs.
A site I check before travelling is www.beerme.com. It has directories and reviews of breweries and brewpubs all over the US. Useful for telling you where there at, if nothing else.
Cheers!

www.realbeer.com is a good one, too.

Just needed to bump this thread up

I am TOTALLY enjoying "Terrible" by my friends at Unibroue in Quebec. It is a dark Belgian style at 10.5% ABV. I defy ANYONE to find a better beer for handing out Halloween candy and catching up on the forums. Oh sure, that's a pretty narrow functional use, but hey, this is a simply scrumptious beer. Really. Could be the best beer of all time.

Next up - Jubelale: the winter seasonal from Deschutes Brewery in Bend, OR. yum yum yum yum yum. You guys should be jealous.

Did I mention that they PAID me to judge at the homebrew competition at the Western Washington Fair last month? Life is SO good!

Jubelale is quite nummy. It's one of the better seasonals. Another good one that has recently become "un-seasonal" is Pyramid Brewery's Broken Rake.

BUMP!

Here's a great article on beer and the people who love it:

http://www.realbeer.com/news/articles/news-002060.php

better no let the bride see this report. while she usually has ONE glass of red every two to three days, she did have a beer last night with pizza while watching nemo. as you all are aware i do enjoy harpoon, and to keep peace with her, bucklers too. now being introverted, i better make the coffee and open the front door so customers can enter the building. oh yea, forgot my empties this morning to turn in at the packie on my way home from work, damn. if she sees the empties stacked in the garage, it's kinda a give-away.
dan

I can't drink much alcohol anymore -- bad experiences. But it's good in the long run (that I have basically stopped).

No lol, no AlcAnnon or anything; just a few hangovers...

as an underage (frehsmen college)and fairly inexpierenced beer drinker, i am still on the crappy stuff-natty light, PBR, coors, keystone

anyways, they all suck. what is a cheap dark beer?

Natty Lite is a great underage beer. Cheap dark beer sucks ass. Until you're of legal drinking age, free beer is the best kind.

the beer is free(keg beer-frat life)

but when i go to bars, i've been trying the hard alchohol.

but i am still looking for a cheap(not natty light cheap) dark beer(prefer dark) that i will taste good

ok-what are good dark beers

how would you rate sam adams?

Sam Adams is my favorite available-everywhere beer, but I don't think of it as "dark". To me, "dark" generally means stouts or porters... Guiness is the obvious choice there.

Ugh..Guiness. It's like dinner in a glass.

Not that it's a beer so to speak, but woodchuck cider rocks!

Just looking at my bar sign over the computer brings a tear to my eye...

Not to mention any beer that encourages a tap handle like this: http://cgi.icq.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3251663558 has to be cool.

man, you're a man on a mission..underage drinking...what would mom or dad say?
i enjoy the following, and i should qualify this by saying i drink lite beer only when it's the last resort.
harpoon ipa
sam adams boston ale
bass ale
these are only a few. my preference for hard stuff is johnny walker black on ice; forget about the red. but remember, sip it, don't drink it like beer or you'll never find the door so you can get home. naturally, having a teenager myself, and, for you legal types, i don't endorse underage drinking.
dan

I found some Harpoon here in Ohio. The Ale and the IPA are both really good.

The flavorful, cheap beer I used to enjoy was Weinhard's Dark. It is definitely NOT up to the style standards of Porters or Stouts, but my experience is that those types of craft beers are never cheap. Like most things, you get what you pay for.

I've long advocated drinking less quantity but higher quality. But, I can't say I advocated that when I was 18.

Sampled a couple of fabulous beers over the weekend, of similar style. Each was ~11% abv with monumental residual sweetness and body. Eku 28 is from Kulmbacher in Germany. Amazingly smooth, but almost cloying. Dogfish Head Immort Ale was from CT (I believe) and had much nicer hop balance. Each had characteristics reminiscent of Skullsplitter and Samichlaus, two other huge holiday beers.

I'm still REALLY enjoying this year's incarnation of Deschutes Jubelale.

I love the huge hoppy beers. I have two cases of Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale at home... that's good stuff.

harpoon ipa
never heard of that

in canada drinking is 18 or 19 right?

anyways, i didnt drink in high school, just college

and the drinking age should be changed to 18. what is 3 years going to do for you?

what is 3 years going to do for you?
when you're 75 maybe a lot.
harpoon india pale ale, the again, as mentioned sierra nevada pale ale is tasty too. recently tried a vermont brew, one of otter creek's. can't remember the name , not bad, but then again, 1/2 bass ale and 1/2 guiness is a holiday favorite of mine too.

Those out of balance beers just don't make sense to me. I absolutely love malt but not like that.
I remember a few years ago Samuel Adams made a beer they called a "triple bock" - tasted just like soy sauce to me. Those German and Swiss beers you mentioned aren't as bad as that stuff, but when you consider the legions of flavorful, quaffable beers available - one must ask, "Why punish the palette with such syrupy shiite?"

Thanks for the reply, Mark. I always enjoy talking about spirits with you.

On a "drinkability" and pure "enjoyment" scale, I'd agree with you. Those styles that are DESIGNED to be at the absurd extremes of a particular flavor component can be challenging, and are not really intended for a large serving size. I remember the SA Triple Bock; I was thinking about pouring it on pancakes.

And let's not hold harmless the over-hopped IPA's while we're at it. Again, particularly West Coast versions are intended to have 70+ IBU's of Cascade/Chinook/Columbus type hops (grapefruit city). But that level of bitterness has simply ceased to appeal to me; those beers are surely as one-dimensional as the strong, syrupy, malty varieties I mentioned earlier.

AND I think it is wonderful to have all of them!! Quaffability is not the only goal. Having a unique sensory experience, and tasting a profoundly expressed flavor can be a very joyful part of life. I guess I'd liken drinking Eku 28 to eating hot peppers or skydiving - not something I'd want to do every day, but a great opportunity to experience part of our world.

Has anyone tried Pumpkin Ale, by Buffalo Bill's Brewery (Hayward, CA)? I'm not sure if it's available outside NorCal.

It's definitely what I call a single-serving or one-bottle beer, but it's very enjoyable, nonethless. Tastes like you're drinking alcoholic pumpkin bread.

I haven't tried it, but I know Blue Moon's Pumpkin Ale is fairly decent. I know it's a Coor's beer, but my wife and her friends really like it. It gets her usual Michelob Light out of our fridge, which is nice.

I'm really into Goose Island's Octoberfest right now.

Anyone know when Anchor's celebration ale comes out??

It's out already (I think?) in the SF Bay Area, home of the brewery.

Thanks,

I'll check Sam's Wine here and see if they have any in stock.

I believe that both Anchor *Christmas* and Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale are already available, along with the seasonals from other NW brewers (Winterhook, Winterbrau, Wassail, Jubelale, Snow Cap, etc.). Yippee!

I've had the Buffalo Bill's Pumpkin; I believe it is available year-round. As you said, it's an interesting experience more than a session beer. But it definitely expresses its Pumpkinhood eloquently.

BUMP!

Just wanted to chime in that I bought a bunch of wonderful beers for Thanksgiving festivities.

Besides the previously-extolled Jubelale, I've now had a chance to savor this year's Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale and Full Sail Wassail. The Sierra is typically hoppy, but lively and fresh. The Wassail is darker (like the Jubel and Snow Cap), with strong alcohol notes and a dry nuttiness that I enjoy.

Don't miss Hennepin, a Belgian farmhouse-style ale from Brewery Ommegang in Cooperstown, NY. It is a long-time favorite of mine, and we used it to toast the passing of HOF'er Warren Spahn, who died yesterday at 82.

We always have a bottle of Lindeman's Framboise at holidays; love the intense, sweet/tart Raspberry flavor. Try it instead of Champagne.

Did not enjoy Perla, a Polish Pils. Just not as good as the Bohemian classics. Golden Pheasant is a satisfying new one (to me) from the Czech republic.

Still looking forward to Santa's Private Reserve from Rogue, La Fin du Monde from Unibroue and a few other tasty treats. Plus, we bought a five-litre can of Beck's at Costco the other day - session beer for after we've sampled the good ones.

Happy Thanksgiving, friends.

- Tom

Not sure if these two have been noted already. Affligem dobbel boch and Sami klaus. The affligem is simply the finest tasting beer ive ever had. Pop the cork, let it set for a moment, then pour it into a widemouth glass. He who finishes off the bottle is in for a treat. A beer for sipping not for guzzling. The Sami Klaus is a different story. I try to limit myself to two as it is expensive and potent. Make sure you have an inexpensive back-up to finish off your nite. You wouldn't want to waste this beer once the goggles are applied.
Cheers
Billy

HIJACK!!!

was wondering about good hard liquor drinks people like

i currently like, although my expierence is somewhat limited, jolly ranchers and long island ice tea. For those that dont know, jolly rancher is ussually made with apple or watermelon schnapps(i prefer watermelon), and vodka. if making a lot, a lime drink mixer(or whatever drink mixer) is used. The drink is served chilled or over ice

Include recipes!!

i personally have 2 favorite mixed drinks:
#1 mix ice with johnny walker black
#2. mix ice with dewars
dan

Hey Billy - tell me more about the Affigem. Is that the name of the brewery or the beer? What is the country of origin?

Good one, Dan. I prefer to buy American, so my fav mixed drink is Maker's Mark and ice.

Cheers, everyone!

Okay, sorry, I found it - Traditional Abbey ales of Flanders. Sounds great! I'll look for them.

Tom, I'm disappointed in you. I thought for sure you would prefer your whiskey straight. I find all liquor better warm (except crap like peppermint schnapps and maybe vodka - but who drinks that straight?). Not "warmed", but room temperature. Or in the case of cognac, warmed by the palm of my hand.
With ice in the glass I feel rushed to drink up before it melts. It also freezes up the taste buds.

Hawkson:
Tequila Sunrise, Whiskey Sour, rum & coke, nothing fancy.
But, depending on where you live, you might want to take advantage of the local fruit to make margaritas and daquiris. In my area strawberries are abundant. The advantage to having them locally grown is that you can get them when they've been picked ripe rather than green (not the ones from grocery stores, they've been picked green for longer shelf life). Strawberry margaritas are best with super-ripe, almost rotten strawberries (frozen-thawed are better than supermarket-fresh), good 100% agave tequila, FINE triple sec (but not too much, don't want them syrupy), sweet & sour, lots of powdered sugar, and FRESH lime. Blend using crushed ice. Serve in appropriate glasses and watch the ladies get plastered.

Mark - you're right, of course. I was just trying to say something witty regarding the "mixed drink" query. It IS a waste of good whiskey to have it touch anything except a clean glass before it hits your lips. That being said, there is room in my life for all sorts of experiences, and I sometimes stoop to ice or even (gasp!) a whiskey sour.

We've been drinking Margaritas on the rocks lately (although I wish I could afford REALLY good Tequila....). The magic formula seems to be 4 Tequila, 3 Triple Sec and 2 fresh lime juice. Tequila gives me a very different feeling than alcohol.

Happy Thanksgiving!

This thread deserves a bump.

Thanks, Peter. I think it's a sign when Craig is posting the URL for the beer thread within other threads.

I'm still infatuated with beers from Quebec's Unibroue. Recent favorites include Trois Pistoles and Terrible. Great, rich, clean, fresh beers.

I also had a chance to drink Widmer's Winternacht, which struck me as vastly superior to prior years' offerings.

Finally, everybody should have a bottle of Lindeman's Framboise Lambic on hand for the holidays. We much prefer it to champagne. While it is quite sweet for a Lambic, my wife (and her mother) are crazy for that big, pink, fizzy raspberry richness.

Happy Holidays, friends.

That Lambic was my first ever, and is still my favorite. Have you tried their other flavors? I believe there's a peach, among others.

If you can get the Lindeman's on draught, do it. Transcendent, I tell you.

There is a Peche, Kriek (cherry) and another - Cassis or Currants or something, I believe. I like the Framboise the best.

Most, if not all, other Lambics are much less sweet. But hey, there are days to evaluate style and days to purely enjoy. I'm clearly in the middle of a long stretch of the latter. Hope you are too.

What do people do to eggnog these days?

[looks around embarrassed]
Pour it on malt-o-meal

Yeah, I know...

leave in the fridge for others, or throw it away after 2 weeks to make room for beer or white wine.

A few years back we attended a rehearsal dinner at the Yardhouse in Long Beach (CA), and they had the Lindemans for something like 13.95 a yard!!! I did the math, found it was much less than the store price and proceded to drink all the girly beer I could drink. That stuff is outstanding!!!

Tom, et al, have you had a chance to try the reincarnation of Lowenbrau Munich stateside? I drank a sixer the other day on the way home from the dentist. Maybe the years have clouded my memory, but I remember Lowenbrau Munich as an outstanding, truly exceptional, malty lager. Distinctive, herbal and far smoother than the Zurich version. The latest version seems to be more an imitation of Miller's corn-based Lowenbrau than the original Munich I had years ago.
I guess my experiences with the original Lowenbrau Munich made me partial to the brand. Once when I was riding my motorcycle back from Vegas and got caught in a sand storm, I holed up in a little desert motel. The liquor store next door carried 40oz bottles of Lowenbrau malt liquor. If my memory serves me right that stuff was GOOOOOD. Have never seen it in a store anywhere else.

Yeah, that stuff (lambic) is good. I need to break out my bottles. Hmm... not driving anywhere tonight!

My eggnog is the organic stuff from Trader Joe's (it's much, much better than Safeway or whatever, but i haven't tried their regular), which is about 8-10 oz eggnog, 1-2 oz milk (to thin it a bit), and 2 oz whiskey. Yum!




Oh my god, I just posted in the beer thread.

You simply cannot beat real home made eggnog.
It is nothing like that store bought stuff. After one glass you can choke on the richness of the froth.
After two glasses the spiced rum kicks in.
After three glasses, you may hallucinate you are some guy named Peter....

Got a recipe? 'Cause I've got some pasturized eggs here...

Actually yes, we do have a good recipe.
I'll talk to the wife tomorrow about it. She and the fetus went to bed.

However, you need snow. It works best this way.
You can use a freezer but i find it picks up some of that freezer flavour while it chills.

Unfortunately, all I've got here is rain. (being, as I am, in the SF Bay Area).

I like my nog with a little "Old Charter" or "VO" or "7".

On my travels a couple of weeks ago I had the opportunity to sample 10 or 15 different kinds of Asian beer. All pretty good (disclaimer: I'm no connosieur - is that even how you spell that word???) and all had a North American style. You can certainly see the Anheuser/Busch influence. My understanding is that the major Chinese brewery Tsingtao (pronounced 'shingtao') aligned with Bud and has been a major influence on every brand in the area.

My personal favorites though, were Beer Lao (found everywhere in Cambodia) and LaRue Beer (found mostly in Vietnam). But there were lots of good ones to choose from and in those 2 countries, a can was routinely had for $.50

The other great thing was Red Bull was everywhere in those countries - and they free-pour booze so all the drinks are damn strong!!!

This thread needed a bump!

And I wanted to thank Sid for the helpful comments about the Asian beers he sampled.

I highly recommend Pike Kilt Lifter Scotch ale. Very strong, wonderfully malty and rich, but nicely balanced. A recent and enthusiastic favorite.

Now, could somebody please rename this thing to include the "OT" prefix so that nobody gets confused or offended?

Nice bump, Tom. Babys in my lap frequently now so my eloquence will suffer. Had an occasion to try the Unibroue La Maudite. Not bad. Reminded me alot of many red homebrews I made where I packed alot of 2 row and crystal malts into the mash.

Unibroue?

I'm deeply offended. In high school my buddies suggested I try to get on the WWF with the moniker "Otto Von Unibrau". You obviously never considered that any of us here would be "uni-browian".

Settle down over there. I've been known to do some "top o' tha nose" plucking, myself...

But to bring this post back on topic, I recently had a beer called Brown Shugga' by Lagunitas. This is not a beer you can down quickly. At 9.9% alcohol, it would mess you up.

Here's a review.

I live in Chico, right next to the Sierra Nevada brewery! It's the largest independent brewery (in the US?). The owner is a great guy, and they have awesome food for reasonable prices. It varies from pizza to hamburgers to steak. They're currently growing their own hops for specialty batches. They also have a very nice auditorium. He hired local workers to put in custom marble staircases, murals on the walls, and all sorts of things. Beats the heck out of the Budweiser plant.

My personal favorite is Sierra Nevada Wheat with a lemon. Crystal Wheat is pretty good as well. Pale Ale is the commonly seen varient. Has anyone tried a Bigfoot? They have a reputation. There are quite a few other ones. I'm not big on Celebration (Seasonal Winter Ale). Their brown ale is alright for a dark beer.

Chico State is known as a huge party school. I think they got #2 in the last Playboy list. The previous list had them at #1.

Time to drag this one out again!

I had my first taste of barleywine yesterday at a local bar&grill, and I apparently started out with the best one available in the US: Rogue Ale's Old Crustacean Barleywine. Talk about a meal-of-a-beer! I had no idea what I was in for. Semi-sweet, thick, and very tasty. Just one made me hand my keys over. (The alcohol content is similar to wine at over 11%!)

So I'm minding my own business wandering through the various forums here to pick up whatever information I can from the collective knowledge about audio, speakers and Axiom stuff. All of a sudden......BAM - BEER THREAD. Yeah, this works!

I live in Rocheter, NY and this is where they make Genesee beer. (Genesee is an old celtic word that loosely translates to "aardvark sweat"). However, I grew up in Pittsburgh. While I saw mention of that fine pilsner Rolling Rock, I have seen no mention of Pittsburgh ambrosia - Iron City Beer. The beer of the Steelers. The nectar of the Ohio Valley. I grew up quaffing this by-product of the Monogahela River and it is a little known treasure.

I should also mention that ordering surf & turf in Pittsburgh will get you a plate of Kielbasi and Carp. No matter, the Iron washed the steel mill pollution away. It also does a nice job restoring a pitted or rusty paint job on your car.

It's funny how the mid-west calls them "kielbasi" despite there being a large Polish population there.

(Polish was my first language. Kielbasa is the singular term for Polish sausage, and kielbaski is the plural.)

Now you've got me crav gowompki (stuffed cabbage rolls) or a nice bigos (hunters stew). drool...

Whenever you feel like cooking, I'm there. Just no borscht. Unless it's your grandmother's.

I'm not crazy about those kielbasa, but a good linguica is sublime. Either BBQ'd, with scrambled eggs, or on a pizza... mmm yummm.

Right on, Peter! That sounds like comfort food, to be sure.

Thanks sincerely for the language lesson. I love stuff like that. Especially when it's about sausages.

I'd like to nominate Ray for best Axiom newcomer or some kind of fluff nonexistent award. He came to the right party, IMO. Ray, is Rochester close to Albany/Troy? I was at the Brown and Moran Brewery in Troy some years ago and had a truly memorable meal with some great beers.

Regarding the Old Crustacean - you're right. That is a big, big, beer. And, as Rogue was one of the pioneer craft breweries of the Northwest beer renaissance of the 1980's, it set a standard of sorts. But not a standard without controversy; barley wine is a traditional english ale type, but the West Coast versions are much more aggressively hopped than their progenitors. So much so that, like IPA, many beergeeks favor connoting a completely separate style (American IPA, American Barleywine, etc.). The only other recourse is to fight continually about whether beers like Old Crustacean are "overhopped for the style".

Rogue's brewery is on the scenic Oregon coast in Newport. Great place. Great beers.

Tom - my entire life is built on a solid foundation of fluff! Thank you for the nice welcome. Troy/Albany are about 4hrs. away by car. I haven't heard of the brewery, but I try to frequent micros when I can. They usually put out a good product. I also notice the beer gets better the longer I sit there testing it.

As for the rest of you guys, while the linguistics exercise was very fulfilling, I have reached max salivation levels reading your posts. In the final analysis, I'm usually less concerned with how to say/spell it as long as there are seconds available!

From a philosophical perspective, I've always felt that the question of which came first , the chicken or the egg, was too esoteric. The more important question to be debated there should have been "was pizza or beer first".

Excuse me, I am going for a snack.

Beer to the resuce!

This evening my wife was rushing to complete a stir fry before she had to head out. She read the label on the suace she had bought and saw that it made 4 servings, so she dumped the whole bottle in. She realized too late that for 4 servings you're only supposed to add a half-cup. Beer cuts the salt quite nicely.

my wife uses beer as the starter for beef stew. beer seems to tenderize the beef as well as adding flavor.

It is entirely possible that the only beer worse than Iron City is Iron City Lite.

Unfortunately, I can't muster an argument to this statement. I will say however, the IC Light is not quite as effective at removing barnacles from the barges that ply the Ohio River.

In reply to:

---

It is entirely possible that the only beer worse than Iron City is Iron City Lite.

---

Obviously you've never tried Club beer!

What do you beer nuts know about mead?

Mead is for pansies.... j/k

Actually, I've had decent mead and I've had horrid mead. Properly made (not over-spiced) I find it quite enjoyable and thirst-quenching.

Do you have to make your own, or can it be bought?

You can get it at bevmo.

I had to stop drinking mead. It started to make me feel "pretty". Might work if I could find beer nuts with the shells on or some really big, manly pretzels laced with testosterone.

I'm with Peter. Meads vary from sublime to Bug Spray. My personal efforts tended towards the latter. To me, the best ones are the sweet, dessert wine type. Like late harvest Reisling, but honey flavored.

It is actually quite difficult to achieve a sweet mead, because honey ferments out completely. It is not uncommon for a dry mead to have a specific gravity "thinner" than water because there are literally no residual sugars. Sweet meads require very careful yeast management whereby the strain of yeast is susceptible to being "killed off" by the increasing alcohol content during fermentation.

Spiced mead is called Metheglin. Mead with fruit is called Melomel, with malt "Braggott". Love those names. Check out the
BJCP Guidelines for more info.

There are many fine commercial Meaderies. They are typically small, local operations. A good wine shop should be able to help you.

twodan, you can also use beer to soak your wood chips before BBQ'ing. I've reserved a few bottles of bad homebrew (was supposed to be a Scottish ale, but it is just WAY too sweet, syrupy and strong) for that purpose. Works real well.

Sipping on a cognac tonight. It was labeled as an XO but only cost $20 at Trader Joes. Claude Chatelier or something like that. For $20 it's a good buy. Very strong orange flavors, a little wood/tobacco, and a bit of heat on the finish, but pleasant and very clean nonetheless.
The Portuguese beer "Super Bock" they have at TJ's is definitely something to not write home about - unless your letter starts, "I had the most unremarkable beer today..."

I just finished a 40 of Cobra Malt Liquor. Best buck 49 I've spent in a while.

BigWill,

I've yet to try any beer with "Bock" on it's label that I'd buy again. (And that's before I found out bock means goat!) It's strange because as far as I know a bock is just a dark lager. Perhaps tomtuttle can recommed a good bock?

good idea, never thought of it. but, one can't forget beer can chicken either.
dan

In reply to:

---

Obviously you've never tried Club beer!

---

I've never even heard of it. Is it regional?

Ayinger Celebrator Doppelbock is probably the best bock I've tasted. The Paulaner Salvator is worth trying too.

Right on, Jason. Excellent choices on the Bocks.

Bock is a traditional, strong German lager style, not necessarily dark in color. They are distinguished by not only their strength, but also a sweet maltiness. Traditional German brewing techniques include a decoction mash, whereby the temperature of the mash is elevated in several steps by removing part of the mash, heating it and then returning it to the main mash. This technique develops tremendous depth of malt flavor, and can be easily discerned in the best German beers. Since they focus on displaying malt, Bocks are probably the best example of the melanoidins created by this process.

Doppelbocks like Jason recommends are the "biggest" examples of the style (and my favorites as well - especially the Paulaner). However, there are good pale bocks as well. I just can't think of any that are brewed in America off the top of my head.

It is an economic problem, really. Making lagers in general is more expensive because the fermentation takes longer and requires refrigeration. Consequently, you have probably noticed that most "craft" breweries focus on Ale styles rather than Lagers. Budmilloors beer factories still make lagers profitably largely because of not only economy of scale, but also because they require less of the basic ingredients (Bud is not very flavorful for a reason) and stretch their grain bill with less costly fermentables (rice and corn instead of barley).

Many of the American bocks that you see are not very good because they exist more as a marketing ploy rather than as a stylistic expression of the brewer. I don't know that I would recognize Shiner Bock as a "bock" in a blind tasting, for instance. The American brewing tradition came primarily from German immigrants, but post-prohibition economics dictated that marketing was more important than adherence to traditional styles and techniques. It is simply impossible to do decoction mashes in huge quantity, yet companies wanted to diversify their offerings - hence, let's call the "dark" beer our "bock".

In general, if you can get a Bock from a local craft brewer, it will probably be pretty close to style, but to me, nothing can compare to a fresh, carefully handled example from Deutschland.

Hey Mark, thanks for the tip on the Cognac! Keep those kinds of tidbits coming, please!

Hi Jason,
Club is a Labatt's product that I assumed was a widely available Canadian beer (but maybe I was wrong). I actually thought they took it off the market after all those teenagers went blind a few years back!

And all this time I thought teenagers went blind for a different reason...

Two current favorites.

Hefe Weizen from Feierlings Brauerei in Freiburg Germany (amazing time had enjoying lazy summer afternoons in 91) Zum Voll!

Belgian White beers. I don't know the particular brand, but I tried it for the first time at the Zeitgeist bar in San Francisco (mission st)

Excellent, James! You must have a good local shop, because the Feierlings is not widely distributed.

For the white (wit) beers, I like the Blanche de Chambly from Unibroue a lot. Hoegaarden is the standard. Is Celis still making beer? That was a good one, but we don't get it in the NW anymore.

Beer lovers rejoice! New research shows that drinking beer is just as hydrating as drinking water. Feel free to substitute a beer for any/all of those glasses.

Good 'ol Canadian scientists have their hearts (and guts) in the right place.

Been drinking Bell's Belgian White at my favorite bar. very tasty. The wife loves it too which is a bonus!

Colt .45?!?!?!?
Even when I was 16 I was able to recognize that stuff as swill. I prefered the Bull at the time, but Mickey's and King Cobra would also do. The best thing about the Bull is getting all that glitter on your hands as you peel off the label in a drunken stupor.

Bell's is, I think, one of America's best breweries. I am only fortunate enough to drink their beer if a buddy or I get near Chicago and bring bottles back, which is very very rare. Great, great beers. You lucky sod.

this will be printed for the bride to read. lately she has been buying "free range" grocery items. i have mentioned bottles of beer or scotch are not caged during their maturing processes; didn't impress her.
dan

JasonG,

Thanks for the tip on the Paulaner Salvator. I bought the last 3 bottles from the store I went to last night. I cracked one open as soon as I got home and enjoyed every last drop -- minus the ones my wife nabbed.

By the way Tom,

Took your advice and tried the Lindeman's Framboise - fantastic!

BTW, I much prefer the Framboise to the Peche. The Peche was a little too sweet for me.

I'm glad you liked it... Paulaner's Oktoberfest and Hefe-Weizen are both good examples of their respective styles as well.

I had the opportunity to try Sierra Nevada's Bigfoot Ale tonight for the first time. I took one sip and broke into laughter. According to the label it is 9.6% alcohol, and according to my mouth the other 90.4% is hops extract. It's tasty, but ridiculously exaggerated. Sierra Nevada claims that it rates ninety bitterness units (IBUs); by comparison, Sierra Nevada Pale Ale has 37, and Budweiser is in the neighborhood of 15. I'm glad it's finally available in Ohio.

Hey there, give credit where credit is due!!! I believe I mentioned the Framboise first - check page 18!!!

C'mon guys, Shiner Bock. No discussion needed. It's the best beer you can find. For Valentines they made it with Chocolate @ $12 a bottle (32oz i think)

Shiner Bock is only good when compared to other Texan beers.

Hehe. Thanks Tom. I was actually drinking the Feierlings at the brauerei in Freiburg Germany.... Like I said. Amazing summer of 91

James, good for you! I'm jealous.

I respect the tradition, scale and Texas-ness of Shiner. I want to reiterate my other comments on that brand; it can be a fine beer, especially depending upon the atmosphere, circumstances and your expectations.

But it ain't no Bock. Even Shiner enters that beer as an "American Dark Lager" at the GABF. So, it is competing against Weinhard's Dark, maybe Leinenkugels, etc. It is not the same STYLE of beer as Paulaner or other true bocks brewed in Germany or at craft breweries in the US. "Shiner Bock" is an expression of marketing, but not an accurate stylistic classification.

Mark, maybe my recommendation on the Framboise was just more memorable than yours Whatcha drinking nowadays, anyway? I've been mostly on Maker's Mark, neat, lately. Can't complain.

Shiner is good but a better Texas beer is ZiegenBock.

Any one familiar with a french ale called Fisher Amber? It's my new fave.

Tom, last night was Makers Mark - on top of Pilsener Urquell and Pete's Wicked Brown. Tonight: cheap wine, BBQ porterhouse in the rain and some cognac. You know you're a fool when you're BBQing in the rain.

I'm a little familiar with that Fischer stuff. Drank a ton of it acquiring those flip top bottles for homebrewing (too lazy to sanitize caps you know).
It's not bad, but don't end your quest for the perfect beer yet.

Hey Tom, I just had myself a big bottle of Stone Ruination IPA. Tremendous hop bouquet! The beer itself was good - a bit out of balance - but that bouquet was awesome!

In reply to:

---

Shiner is good but a better Texas beer is ZiegenBock.

---

Ziegy is actually an AB product available only in Texas. Not that it matters, I guess.

I'm late to the conversation, but I'll give you a couple of suggestions:

Boulevard Pale Ale - Kansas City
Alaskan Amber - Alaska


Don't know if they have been discussed, but they are both oustanding!

I like some of the Fischer Beer. It often suffers from bad handling and, like Heineken, tastes skunked to me. Is Alsace in France nowadays? Harumph.

I've not had that Stone beer, but they do make some good ones. Are they the ones who make "Arrogant B*stard"? That's a hop monster too.

I had a Piraat ale last night. Bliss, I tell you!! It is a non-abbey Belgian Trippel (10.5% abv). Hoppier than I'm used to for the style, but not at all out of balance. Really delightful. Highly recommended.

This thing needed a bump. I don't sleep at all well when the beer thread gets down to page 2.

I'm going to Florida in a few weeks. Is there real beer there? My previous visits indicate "not really" as an answer.

I like Red Stripe on a hot day (it's Jamaican, though, not Floridian).
I'm not the Belgian connisseur you are, Tom, but I tried a few recently. I had a big Duvel, a blue Chimay and a white Chimay on Super Bowl Sunday. I thought the Duvel was excellent when you consider it's alcohol content, but not worth $6. The Blue Chimay was a little disappointing - IMO not as good, not as rich and raisiny as the LaTrappe Dubbel I sometimes splurge on. The Cinq Cents, I thought, was pretty impressive. Not something I feel comfotable drinking on a daily basis ($8!!!), but excellent. Thanks for reminding me to pop for a special brew every now and then.
Oh, and the Unibroue does compare favorably to the Belgians - good tip.
Anybody up for an Old Rasputin from North Coast Brewing(?)? Very nice HEAVY stout. Much like BJ's Tatonka.

This week I dipped into Unibroue territory and tried both the Maudite and Fin du Monde. Both excellent, but I think I prefer the Fin du Monde because I can drink it faster.

I checked out the website and it says that Maudite can be aged -- and will take on port-like qualities. Has anyone been patient enough to set a bottle aside in the back of their fridge for this?

I'm also wondering if any of you beer nuts -- that's the proper parallel to wine snob, right? ) -- have the proper drinking glasses for the different styles of beer you enjoy.

So many names of beers, so many we cannot get in Canada.
How about for the Canucks, a little Big Rock to bring some sunshine into their day.
(Incidentally i own some stock in this company. Buy BIG boys!!)

SEE HERE

"InterbrewAmbev"?!?!? There is something REALLY wrong with that.

I'm not a beer historian, per se, but this global development is reminiscent of the consolidation of American breweries that took place throughout the 1960-1980's. Respectable regional breweries were bought out and closed, with the brand names living on as pale imitations of their former selves. I'm deeply saddened to see this kind of thing happen. Pretty soon, the only thing anybody will be able to buy is one brand called Budmilloors. I mean really, on a global scale, how many soda pop companies are real players besides Coke and Pepsi? It reminds me of the movie "Demolition Man" where, in the future, the only restaurant is Taco Bell.

So, I implore you, support your local brewery. If you don't, we could all be doomed to spending an inordinate amount of time homebrewing.

Thanks for sharing, Chess.

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...we could all be doomed to spending an inordinate amount of time homebrewing.

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And lordie knows how much boiling wort stinks up the house. Yecchhh!

I'm going to have to disagree with that statement, Peter!

I think boiling wort smells really great! I mean, malt and hops - what more do you want? Besides, if you're doing full boils of man-size batches, you're probably outside anyway.

I have to admit that I've only smelled boiling wort once when a friend was trying his hand at homebrewing. And I should probably mention that the end result was absolutely horrible. Could the two things be related?

AAAARGH, Tom. You're makin' me want to get out in the garage, dust off the wort chiller and mash up some barley.

Oh but wait, it'll take 8 hours or so to make a beer and clean up, a few hours of labor here and there, and I'll have to wait another 2 mos to drink it.

Maybe next winter.

Doesn't sound like it's wort the effort...

Peter, that's what I concluded. It's all a matter of context, time, and the value of "hobbies". Before my kids were born, I had the time for hobbies, and felt fulfilled by making beer. Now, time is more precious, and I don't feel like I need more "interests" than I have.

Plus, I have a better job and I drink less, so I can afford to buy what is satisfying. But I have two really nice, big brewkettles, about 6 pop kegs and other crap in my garage that I can't seem to bear the thought if getting rid of.

I've got 4 year old hops and barley, Tom. You got any older than that?

looks as though the beer talk has run its course, but i have seen some mention of alcohol. if you are into sippin' whiskey, take a shot at KNOB CREEK.. it is super smooth, with just a sweet hint of maple. started drinking it about a year ago and never looked back. dont insult it by mixing it with coke, just slow sip it. very good stuff.

I've never had a maple flavoured whiskey but i have tried a maple liquer made right here in Canada.
It was...ummm. .. a tad sweet.

BigJohn, ever try Blanton's? That is my personal favorite (mixed with grape KoolAid, of course).

Okay, just for the record, the beer thread may have "lulls", but it will never, ever "run its course".

BigWill's right about the Blanton's. I've only had it once, but it was memorable. I don't like Knob Creek enough to pay 50% more for it than I pay for Maker's Mark. I liked Booker's a lot, but I can't afford it at all.

But EVERYBODY knows that the best mixer for premium bourbon is Purple Gatorade. Sheesh.

I honestly don't know if I still have any hops in the freezer. They'd be about that vintage, though. The malt is long gone. I understand that Lambics use "aged" hops.

My wife would kill me if I mixed my premium bourbon with purple gatorade... I don't remember the name offhand, but it's absolutely fantastic stuff. I'll post it when I get home.

Since the discussion is taking a bourbon direction, I'll mention Jack Daniel's in passing. It's just right for the sitting on the deck after golf and sipping, mixed only with ice. With that in mind, I recently ran across Jack's new, older brother - Gentleman Jack. It's charcoal filtered a second time and aged another couple of years.

Smooth is such feeble word to approximate it's contact with your mouth. Almost none of it gets down your throat, rather it evaporates on your tongue and lingers like a soft Kentucky night in August. It's like a fine liqueur with an attitude. It's also damned expensive.

Here we are... it's Black Maple Hill Premium Single Barrel Bourbon, aged 16 years. Fantastic stuff. Mind you, I've never had bourbon before this, other than Jack Daniels, which I didn't like (Side note: According to one website is not bourbon, due to the manufacturing process or something. No offense meant.) It's almost like congnac in its tendancy to evaporate in your mouth, similar to Ray3's posting about Gentleman Jack. Great stuff.

How about a link to that there old bourbon, kcarlie? I was fixin' to set Ray straight about JD when you done it for me. Why am I talking like this? I'm drinking cognac tonight, mon ami.

You guys are right. As I sit here inspecting my friend Jack's vessel, Isee that this is actually a sour mash. The Gentleman, however, is angel's ambrosia. I had to stop drinking cognac Will; it made me feel pretty.

Because that ol' bourbon doesn't have a website... I tried to link to the Bevmo listing for it, but their thing doesn't work with links. Here's the name, if you'd care to search for it yourself: Black Maple Hill Bourbon 16 Year.

Obviously I don't drink enough these days... It just makes me sleepy!

Here's a direct link:

Black Maple Hill Bourbon

$65.99 buys alot of Iron City beer.

Yeah, but this stuff is probably going to last me over a year.

hmmmm Never been big into bourbon - I'll have to check some out.
What about single malts?
Just perused the liquor cabinet - Lagavulin, Aberlor 15, Cragganmore, Dalwhinnie, Springbank unfiltered, Balvine Doublewood - may have to take a tour of Scotland tonight..

I've got Lagavulin 16 year. It had a very smoky flavor initially, but it seems to be mellowing. Very tasty, although I'm afraid I have to drink it on the rocks rather than straight. That's not a big faux pas, is it? (again, I don't know much about Scotch; this is my first bottle...)

tomt, i like makers mark also.. i just been digging on the KNOB CREEK, plus, it isnt 'that' much more expensive than the makers mark. the touch of maple, is exactly that, a touch.. i wouldnt consider it overly sweet at all. i have never tried bartons before.. i only started drinkin' alcohol here in the last few years.. mainly a beer drinker. being in texas, i have a connection to the shiner products.. plus, really enjoy going to fredericksburg for some micro-brew.. best beer in texas.. gillespie county..

Ken, are you saying that the Lagavulin is 'breaking in'?

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'breaking in'

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Sound the alarm!!

Yeah, that'd be about right. If you use higher quality glasses, it tastes better, too. {evil grin}

I think that whiskey and whisky (of quality) is best enjoyed straight. If you don't like it that way, then you ought to be drinking wine coolers. Just kidding - a little.

Ouch!

Maybe I'll just drink it how I like it. :-P

Sorry about that, kcarlie - I reread that last post today - sounded a little harsh. Really though, I have found that fine whiskey, cognac, tequilla, rum (yes rum!), all taste better (sweeter and more mellow) at room temperature. Au naturale, the way The Maker intended it to be.

WARNING WILL ROBINSON!

You've encountered people who drank tequila on the rocks?!!! Blech. Or cognac?!

I'll have to do further experiments with my Scotch and Bourbon, but I agree with you on the rest.

discovered a great conac. i'm sure i will spell it incorrectly, but here goes pierre ferrod. they have three blends. i find the least expensive the smoothest. it makes VSOP taste like nail polish remover, though i've never tried it.
dan

Tequila on the rocks sounds a little bit "ick" to me too. However, most people think that when I drink Tequila and tonic.

You might make a face - but with a good silver tequila... the best I've tried is "El Tesoro" is fantastic with tonic and a couple of lime wedges.

If you like tequila and have not tried this brand... you owe it to yourself to taste it. It beats the pants off what many people consider the "best" tequila they've tried - Patron.

I love El Tesoro tequila, though I prefer the reposado to the silver. I like the extra complexity that aging in wood gives it.

Yup, that stuff is fantastic.

I've read good things about that tequilla, but have been unable to part w/ $50 for it. Do you know what quality of Scotch, Cognac or Bourbon you can get for the same price? Tequilla is, after all, kind of a wild - yet simple and uncomplicated - liquor. Costco had 1.5L bottles of a silver called Milagro that was absolutely of the finest quality. Not as boldly flavored as some high dollar silvers, but it was smooth going down and easy on the head the next morning.

DL30: With a scotch collection like that maybe you can field this question for me. Ever try Talisker? I've been told it's plenty peaty like Lagavulin, which I much say I am a huge fan of. But I haven't tried it, and at ~$50 a bottle I'm always tempted to pop for something tried and tested instead like Oban or Cragganmore.

BigWill,

The only reason I've had both the El Tesoro Silver and the Reposado is that my roommate at the time was having a party while I was out of town. When I got back, I noticed that there was only a shot or two left in the bottle Reposado (which had been nearly full prior to the party). I told him how much it cost me and asked him to replace it. He accidentally got me the silver instead. I was a little miffed that it wasn't an exact replacement, but it was a chance to try something different.

I hope he enjoyed those margaritas!

Peter, El Tesoro is the brand that I have heard much buzz about, but yet to try. One day...

Highly recommend Talisker - I've tried Laphroaig, Craggenmore, Glenmorangie and the commercial stuff like Glenfiddich. The only one I've ever bought more than the first bottle of was Talisker. I drink it with an ice cube and a dash of water ... and I don't consider myself a scotch drinker - I'm more of a beer and vodka person.

ringmir: I don't think I have ever tried Talisker, but SeanF gives it a good rec. If it's similar to Lagavulin then I would give it a go. I love the peaty scotches although sometimes Laphroiag seems toooo peaty, almost like chewing on a chunk of peat.

Back to beer. For those in Chicago, If you are a fan of Guinness, Go to Mulligan's in Roscoe Village. They have $3.00 Imperial Pints as a daily special. It's kind of a unfriendly bar, but they have 5 real dartboards as well to pass the time between ordering more Guinness....

El tosoro is a good one.
If you ever get the chance you have got to try
Jose Cuervo Reserva de la Familia
very pricy but absolutely unreal, without a doubt one of the best ever made

i just noticed the beer thread was falling down the chart, so i thought i would get it back to the top..

while at the bar the other night, i strayed from my usual lone star(gotta stay loyal to TEXAS), and ordered a pabst blue ribbon.. now, the last time i had one, was when i was about 12 years old, i used to steal them from my dads stock.. anyway, it wasnt bad.. it had a little bit of a sweeter taste that i dont like in beer, but definitely drinkable..

bigjohn

PBR is where its at.

The only beer more "poundable" than PBR is Guinness.

I prefer Old Milwaukee to PBR. I did an A/B comparison a couple of years ago at the river using three cases of each and a spongy beer cozy. Old Milwaukee all the way.

You guys are killing me. Stop it. I mean it.

Okay, I was in Florida on business recently. It is a beer wasteland. Talk about a complete lack of beer culture. There was virtually no market penetration for ANY kind of draft beer in typical restaurants. Bottles of Heineken is about the best you can do. Pitiful. I like my beer living, please.

I came home and finished off some Sierra Bigfoot to compensate. Totally luscious. Didn't somebody say it was too hoppy? I'd disagree; it needs that many IBU's to balance out the huge malt/alcohol profile.

I had a Rogue Shakespeare Stout and a Fish Mudshark Porter last night. Huge, remarkable, wonderfully rich beers from the Northwest.

Thanks for the bump. I really enjoy hearing the stories about what everyone is drinking. Except that bullsh*t about PBR.

hey in defence of the cheap beer, it gets me pants-sh*#ing drunk just as well as a case of fancy lager. And in the end, isn't that all that really matters?

Sid, sid, sid. You know I can't let that slide

"cheap" beer is inexpensive (and tastes bad) because it uses less malt, hence fewer fermentables, hence less alcohol. It simply costs more to make strong beer because doing so requires more ingredients.

Most budget domestic lagers (Budmilloors, PBR, etc.) are 3.2% alcohol by volume (ABV) because that is the maximum strength allowed to be sold in grocery stores is many states. The vast majority of craft beers whether lagers or ales, exceed that amount, some by 300% (like Sierra Bigfoot and other barley wine style ale).

So, yeah, you CAN get just as blasted on cheap beer, but you have to drink many more of them, ingesting more fermented adjuncts (like rice, which gives me a screaming headache), and dispensing more, um, by products.

So, for me, even if I'm just trying to get loaded, I'd rather drink three good beers than nine bad ones. It's more enjoyable and more efficient.

Tom
you're quite right. We're lucky here in Canada where really the weakest beer available is 4%. Most is around 5%. I'm actually blessed with a resistance to hang-overs so the extra beer consumption never hurt me.

Unfortunately, what I find in Manitoba (and especially rural MB) it is really difficult to find any kind of specialty/microbrew beers, and when you do, they're usually very expensive. Very few rural bars have anything on tap (Coors or Bud best case). When I'm in the big city (Winnipeg) though, I won't touch anything but 'live' beer. Harps is my fav!

No, if you want to get drunk, buy a bottle of 151. Enjoy your stay in the hospital!

Besides, drinking isn't all about getting drunk. Taste does enter into this...

good choice Ken. You could always try the Everclear too if you want to forget your worries (or who you are, or where you live, or control over your mind and body) for an evening.

Another great option that I like to partake in is home brew from a local Hutterite Colony. They can make just about anything into wine - dandelions, rhubarb, rasberries, chokecherries, and the list goes on. They often mix it up using old 5 gallon plastic oil containers (probably cleaned out first, but likely not well) and bottle it in old liquor bottles. The alcohol content varies wildly, but one thing is for sure - it'll knock you on your A!

My thoughts exactly, Tom. Thanks for reminding me about barleywine again. My last was an Old Crustacean -- and I had no idea it was as potent as wine. I'd like to try some others to compare and contrast.

Hi Peter - Don't they still have a barleywine festival at some brewpub in SF? The Toranado maybe? You should check it out.

I once had the great good fortune of judging barleywines at a very prestigious homebrew competition in Seattle - at 8:30 on a Saturday morning. My co-conspirator was renowned beer writer Larry Bausch. We did a great job, and I loved the beers (most amateurs willing to invest the time in a barleywine know what they are doing), but my palate and my equilibrium were both pretty much shot well before lunch time.

The Rogue you mentioned is fabulous. I really like the West Coast style, which is massively hoppier than traditional British counterparts.

Ah Tom the next time i'm in Washington, i will have to stop by.
My beer palate has been on hold as of late. Even the wine consumption is on the downturn mostly b/c of short term time constaints.

However, today i have another computer to build. Looks like all i have left in the fridge is some Newcastle Brown (mmm, nutty goodness) and Boddingtons (mmm, bittter goodness).

I think this thread is up for the longest ever.

Do you think there is a more worthy topic for a perpetual thread?

I really like Boddington's in a can with that widget nitrogen thingy. Smooth and creamy.

Definitely ring me up next time you're in the Northwest. We have a humdinger of a baseball stadium in Seattle. Baseball is kind of like Hockey, but without the ice, fighting, clock and pads. You might really like it.

Bump.

Needed to increase my post count.

ObBeer: I enjoyed the Half-Pipe Porter from Employee-owned Full Sail Brewing in Hood River, OR. It is one of their seasonals. Very full-bodied and delicious. A great example of one of my favorite styles.

What do you guys like to do with Gin? The wife bought a bottle of Sapphire on impulse, and it's really not in my wheelhouse, mixologist-wise. Chill a glass, shake with ice, whisper the word "vermouth" and pour is about all I can bear to do.

Give it to other people.

Gin makes me feel like I'm going to hurl. I don't know why...

Gin and tonic with a lime is about the only thing I'll do with it. Sometimes I'll even add a dash of cran for some extra flavor/color.

I believe gin was invented so you had an absolute foolproof alternative in the event you could not, under any circumstances, find anything else to make you sick.

Gin and tonic is my favorite morning drink in Vegas, but I generally avoid them at home. Gin and pink grapefruit juice is alright, too. Don't Long Islands have a shot of gin???

The only libation I'll drink in the morning is a Bloody Mary. The best ones are thick and from scratch with fresh horseradish.

use the gin to clean lawnmower parts or auto parts

Thanks, you guys have been REALLY helpful.

Try the pink grapefruit juice, Tom.

Noooooo! My wife and I are starting to do some serious number crunching to figure out if we can afford to buy a home in the SF Bay Area in the next year or so. She has decided that switching from real and delicious beer (my term), to contaminated water (e.g. MGD) will help us save toward a downpayment.

There are only two bottles of Anchor Summer Beer left before the 12-pack of MGD is all we have. I think I'll hide those Anchors in the back of the veggie drawer.

Sell the wife.

Good beer is a quality-of-life issue. How much are you REALLY going to save by being miserable?

I'd just pledge to drink less, but of the same quality. I regularly exhibit what my wife considers to be poor behaviour by expressing a preference for water rather than the draught beers listed by a server at a restaurant.

Just say no to MGD.

My thoughts exactly -- the drinking less part, not selling the wife.

I won't touch the MGD. Beer strike!

Just come over here. I'll give you good booze. But no beer. Good booze is a better investment!

I thought this thing needed a bump.

I tried the fresh-squeezed, sweet, pink, Texas grapefruit juice with the Bombay. I like Texas better with every one of bigjohn's posts. Glorious. Really. But I still like vodka better than gin. Fresh-squeezed juice totally rules. We buy Costco cases of navel oranges just for that purpose. I can't bear to do the per-glass cost accounting.

Peter guzzled that case of MGD, but just won't admit it.

I conducted a double-blind test and proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that good beer tastes different than spring water. I know how relieved you all must be. Results will be published in an upcoming journal of some ill-repute.

Got some Modelo in cans recently and it was delicious; I've basically made a pledge to only buy canned beer if the supplier handling could possibly funk my mellow. That is, Mexican and Dutch beers (you know who you are) - your west coast distributors are leaving your product in full sun on the loading dock, and it stinketh mightily.

The seasonal offering from Deschutes is something called "Cinder Cone Red". Kind of malty, but still pretty aggressively hopped with noble-type hops (not citrusy at all). It's kind of nice, but did not give me goosebumps.

I also recently had LaConner Pilsner (small brewery north of Seattle). Much too full-bodied to be in style, but nice and clean. I think they fiddled with the yeast and fermentation temperatures so that they could get a Pilsner-like Michaura M-55, no wait, *beer* to market without compromising the effect of slow throughput in the brewery. It's a lager style beer with suspiciously ale-like tendencies.

They raised the price of Maker's Mark at the packie. We don't call it "the packie" here of course, but I just like that term so much that I'm going to promote it ceaselessly. Love that Maker's Mark. How was it again, Wicked Pissa?

Is there a cigar thread somewhere? I know nothing about them, and have no desire to be "a smoker". But every few years I have the good fortune to be in mid-load when a friend shares one with me, thus effectuating a unique satisfaction, especially when accompanied by dark beers.

Do you guys use coasters? Is the table you set your drink on during HT in front of, behind or to the side of the listening position? How do you feel about that? Done any studies on the effect of a liquid-filled, semi-cylindrical object within the audible field?

Hey, this whiskey's water! (cite that quote, anybody?)

Are you drinking right now Tom?
That was a heck of a post.

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Hey, this whiskey's water!

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Either Daffy Duck or Bugs Bunny... in a dreamlike state (at a mirage?) in a Looney Tunes cartoon, no?

Bren R.

No, chess, unfortunately. Not yet. But soon, very soon.

Bren got it in one! Daffy. I love Looney Tunes.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Guinness.
(sorry, had to chime in.)

hey, beer is back.. !!!

tom- i couldnt help but notice you mentioned drinking some modelo.. i will mention a few other good mexican beers to try.. i am sure you have had them, or heard of them, but i figure i am at least doing my best to keep the beer thread alive..

stay away from corona, that is the 'coors light' of mexican beer.. very generic.. average

i like sampatico.. only in bottles(all i have ever seen) it is a dark beer, very full flavor. very rich taste.

tecate.. this is the 'budweiser' of mexican beer. hearty, full, and robust.. good sixer for the lake will do anytime.

carte blanche.. this is my beer of choice when in mexico. it goes down smooth, and easy. dont get you too drunk, but thats good when in mexico. and it seperates you from all the tourists who are drinking corona. it isnt great, but not bad either.

and my favorite.. dos equis & tres equis.. stands for 2x's & 3x's. its common in the US, but i still like it. it has a very hearty, thick taste. it has a slightly unpleasant odor when you first open the bottle, but the flavor is fantastic. much like sampatico, just not as sweet.. almost bitter, but not very.. the only difference i can tell between the 2x and 3x, is the 3x seems darker and thicker.. heading toward a guinness texture, but just not that thick. but totally different flavor(reference to guinness for thickness only purposes).. by far my favorite mexican beer. at least of the ones i have tasted.

as you can tell, i am not a professional beer explainer?? i just call it as i taste it. if you havent had any of those, try em.. good range of texas/mexican beer.

enjoy.

bigjohn

Excellent thread!

I'm going to have to plug my favorite local brew - Penn Gold as I am enjoying one right now. It is a nice and tasty German style lager similar to what you would find in Bavaria. I favor the German lagers over anything else. The Penn Brewery also makes Penn Weizen (great) and Penn Pilsner (okay I guess, if Pilsners are your thing).

If you ever find yourself in Pittsburgh, make a stop at the Penn Brewery for some German beer brewed in accordance with the Reinheitsgebot (the German beer purity law). You can even get a beer there in the large 1 liter glass mugs as in Bavaria. Its reassuring that the owner learned how to make beer in Germany. My German fiancee loves this beer but forever maintains that Kolsch from Cologne is the best in the world. These Germans are very provincial about their beer so I tend to agree with her. : ) I didn't read the entire thread but I would enjoy reading about great places to find beer in other cities. I shall dig back in the thread and maybe I'll learn something new.

I also enjoyed Shiner Bock while living in Texas and beers from a Kalamazoo, Michigan brewery. Can't remember the name right now, however.

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but forever maintains that Kolsch from Cologne is the best in the world.

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That's Köln, mister... the Cologne spelling makes it look so... French.

I have to admit only recently did I know Cologne was the Anglicized version of Köln or Koeln - half my family's German, we've never been afraid of the umlaut.

Bren R.

Umluats sind ja wunderbar!

Oh Peter! I just love it when you talk French!

Bren & pmbuko (edit), I don't know the code for one of those umlaut thingys so I went with Cologne. Of course, I could have used the latin Colonia but that would have been ridiculous.

holy schnikeys! I just read Ray3's initial post in this thread. The guy is a yinzer! I didn't mention Iron City because, well, I honestly wouldn't wish that stuff on anyone. I buy a case every now and then though. You gotta have a cast iron stomach. And he's right, when tailgating for a Steeler game, not drinking Iron City is punishable by death.

Being new to this forum this is one of the post I have tried to read most. I have been stationed here in Italy for roughly 2 years and Bavarian beer is by far one of my quest..that is to try them all. And having been stationed in the great N.W., now there is a place that also has great beer, just to think of all those micro breweries. But now I have to save all these names of beer that everyone is talking about for I have 2 more weeks and I finally will be back in the US and I can order my Axioms and SVS...been holding off waiting to get back to the States before I ordered, but I have talked to Amie many times in the last 6 months or so and have ordered many samples. But anyway back to the beer I have to say my favorite beer over here is Franziskaner..one of those Bavarian beers. I hear that you can get it in the States but it taste nothing like the .5 litre over here.

Anyway good reading and a great group of people here!!!

Semper Fi

tom, recently tried otter creek copper ale, a vermont made brew. it has displaced harpoon in the 'fridge. my vessel of choice is a wine glass. reminds me of a fine woman when i look at it in the wine glass. nice round body, and fine head. my wife appreciates that analogy, yae right.

So, having just moved from Philadelphia to Boston a year ago, there's a few beers I sorely miss and hope I can find up here (although, for the most part I know I can't).

1) The Philadelphia staple is Yuengling Lager. Nothing too special, just a very pleasant, smooth lager that I am quite accustomed to drinking.

2) Victory Hop Devil is one of my all time favorite beers. If you like hops, and get a chance, you should try this beer. I can't explain it any better than the quote on that page.

3) Weyerbacher makes some excellent beers. In the winter I would suggest getting some of the Raspberry Imperial Stout.

4) Flying Fish Abbey Dubbel, something I drank way too much of when I should have been studying.

5) The last is Stoudt's Scarlet Lady, another of my favorites. And I must say that I would rather spend a night this lady with again than some of the other ones I knew in college. (Certainly not all however!)

where are you in bean town? sounds like a short road trip is order. i'm in pembroke, down near marshfield, bout 40 minutes south of boston w/out rush hour traffic.
dan

OK,
Went out lastnight and found a couple of new Belgium beers. The first was Chima Pares Trappistes- a very good dark beer should be considering it is 9%vol and it came in a .33ltr bottle. Very good beer strong but excellent body..at least I thought so...after a few of those I tried the other: Dubuisson "Bush" Amber...good beer but after having a few of the others the mix was not the thing to do and I could have not been in the testing mood then. The Bush beer was 12%vol and it had more of a strong alcohol presence. I dont know if any of the 2 Belgiums have been mentioned before but I must say that I did enjoy the Chima.
New guy trying to build up post count I guess. If anyone knows of some really good beer over here that I should try let me know. It has got to the point I really dont know what all I have tried so I started putting the beer caps that i have tried in a glass so I could keep up with it. Dont even ask what my wife thinks about this.....

Semper Fi

one of my partners in crime just pointed me to: www.beeradvocate.com. free registration, and appears free beer events. hit me with the stupid stick if this has been brought up before.
dan

How funny, I just went and checked out the site. The funny part was is that I actually started filling guilty about my beercap glass and you were trying to tell me I needed help...or a larger glass.


Semper Fi

I'm in Belmont at the moment, but moving soon. Not entirely sure where, all I know is: eastward!

Has anyone commented or tried the Czechvar "Budvar" the original Budweiser? I have slowly started to move to a lighter beer due to me moving back to the States, I call it: weening myself off the tit, I guess you could say. It is truely a great tasting beer, a lot lighter than what I'm used to and it comes in a .33ltr bottle vise to the regular .5 ltr. Anyway for those of you that are not familiar with this beer this is a link that I found to be quite intresting. http://home.att.net/~marcobrau/czechvar.html.
Anyway this is one of those topics I tend to hope keep alive..this is really a important subject...beer that is!


Semper Fi

Hey Wyn,

Thanks for the bump - and for posting your drinking impressions while in Europe. I am jealous of your beering experience (that's right, I use "beer" as a verb. Gotta problem with that? Anybody? I didn't think so).

You'll be able to find the Chimay in the states. It is fairly widely distributed. Orval is another Belgian we can get here.

It's a good plan to "wean" yourself off of real beer. Depending upon where you are stationed next, you will almost certainly find the selection exasperating relative to your current wealth of choices. Beer Culture seems to vary widely in the US; while states like WA, OR, CA, CO (and many others) have many craft breweries, I know for a fact that Florida is a wasteland.

I adore Budweiser Budvar. Great great beer. It is actually very difficult to make a beer that "small" that is so flavorful. Again, though, I don't see it where I live.

BevMo apparently carries it -- at least online.

UUUUUUUMMMMMMMMM!!!!!

BEER!!!!

bigjohn

LOL! Trust John to get right to the heart of the matter. John, I wish I could sit down with you and watch a ball game sometime (assuming you like some sort of ball game, of course). You're a kick.

well jack.. if you are ever in san angelo(doubt it), you are more than welcome to come over and watch a COWBOYS game with me. the houston TEXANS(they picked a stupid name, kinda redundant) are starting to get fun to watch too. my wife finds me rather worthless during football season.

on friday nights, we go watch local high school football.. saturday day, we go watch the local college games. saturday night, i am usually watching college ball on TV, or playin poker with my buddies while we watch a college game. of course, sunday is full with pregame, noon game, 3 o'clock game, 7 o'clock ESPN game.. then highlights.. then, of course, monday nights game.. all in all, my weekends are pretty full.. but, i always seem to find the time to have a few beers in the middle of all that.

i cant help it. i am an addict.(to football)

bigjohn

I like Czech beers. I don't think I've had the Budvar, but Trader Joes carried 500ml bottles of a primitively packaged Czech lager shortly after the Iron Curtain came down. It was very good. Blue and white label... Any idea what that could have been??? Budvar's label is red, right?

Yes, its Red and Gold. I will go out today if possible and see if I can locate the blue and white label one. I leave here Friday..so much for opsec. Anyway, the beering has been a blast over here and I just came from Wa. State and what a wonderful beer state it is. But I do have an extensive bootle cap collection of what I have tried over here, but by far my favorites are Franziskaner Hefe-weizen and some of the local "roso birra alla spina" Red beer on tap! Good stuff.

Semper Fi

Anyone tried San Miguel beer from the Philippines? The local brew better, and packs a meaner punch, than the export variety. Cheers.

San Miguel...OOOooooh...nice. Was Stationed in Okinawa for a while and I really like that beer. True, local is way better. As a matter of fact I have Pan de sal "sweet bread" on my desk right now. I come all the way to Italy and my neighbors wife is Filipino. La dolce vita!!!

Semper FI

You know, while I haven't looked in Boston, I used to be able to get Franziskaner in Phildelphia. Check this page and take heart I don't recall at the moment where you said you were returning to, but in general it can be found over here...

San Miguel seems to be like the Budweiser of SE Asia. There were ads everywhere in Vietnam and Cambodia for it, strangely enough though, it wasn't always the easiest beer to buy. Most small stands/shops had domestics only at a fraction of the cost of bottled water!

Thanks ringmir,

I had a friend that just went back to L.A. and she stated that she found Franziskaner there but it came in a little green bottle and was like $7-$8 a six pack, over here I was getting it at $3.00 a six pack until two months ago and it went up to $4.50 a six pack and these are .5 ltr bottles. Also I mentioned yesterday I was going to see if I could find the Blue and White labeled Czech beer, well to say the least yesterday was a beutiful 75 degrees and I already had a cold sixpack of Budvar at the house so I ended up sitting outside drinking this wonderful cold beer while looking at the southern Alps. When I finished the Budvar I noticed my friends left some Holland Grolsh, not a bad lager considering they advertise they have have been brewing since 1615, but to me hands down the Budvar was better at least at the moment.......

Semper Fi

Wow. It sounds like beer heaven over there.

I guess we're lucky here in the midwest... lots of great microbrews in town (Omaha) plus great beers nearby, Boulevard in KC and New Belgiun Brewing Co in Ft Collins (Fat Tire)

Oh yeah, there are very good micro-brews all over the states (except Florida, apparently), but they are usually imitating beer styles developed in Europe hundreds of years ago.

I don't know about that... the American pale ales are pretty distinct from their European ancestors.

I said "usually".

I don't think the Indians brewed (but the Aztecs made "pulque" I believe - a kind of low alcohol wine made from Agave) so it could be argued that the New World brews are all bastardizations of existing beer styles.

The California style of hefe-weizen is simply wheat beer with the "wrong" yeast strains used. Anchor Steam is a lager brewed at warmer west coast temps. Our American Pale Ale is probably along the lines of the original IPAs from Britain. Our current over-hopped IPAs may be an original, eh? I had a 4oz sample at the local brewpub last week and I think I can still taste it.

The hoppiest IPA I've ever tasted is Bear Republic Racer 5. I like it.

Dick's Beer claims to make the hoppiest IPA on the market, but I've never tasted it.

I'd agree with Big Will; I'm not sure there is a truly "original" style of beer from America, although the Anchor Steam Beer is unique.

Stylistically, there are some derivatives that are sufficiently different as to negate meaningful comparisons with their progenitors. Specifically, the west coast IPA style that incorporates Centennial/Chinook/Cascade/Columbus hops in obscene quantities rather than the traditional Goldings, Fuggles or other English varieties. The resulting "grapefruit" flavor is unmistakable. Same deal for Barley Wines, and to a lesser extent, robust Porters.

I was kind of thinking that I no longer really adored IPA's until I came across Dogfish Head 90 minute IPA from Delaware. It is just fantastic. Huge beer at 9% ABV, and very hoppy with 90 IBU's. Yet amazingly balanced and drinkable. Very highly recommended. That's the real trick; to make a fantastically hoppy beer that does not taste ONLY like hop resin.

hehe...Dogfish Head....if you want a beer that will wrap your night up in chains and sink it to the bottom of the ocean, try their WorldWide Stout

Just don't expect any memory of the evening to ever surface

Ack! I've been remiss! When I was in Colorado last week, by I had some great local brews. The one that stood out most was 90 Shilling, from Odell Brewery. 90 Shilling, from Odell Brewery Very easy drinking with good balance between what one would associate with both lighter and darker beers.

Hey, the beer thread is hoppin' again!

That Dogfish Head brewery looks like like they're willing to experiment. They must finish with a wine or champagne yeast to get that stout up to 18%, eh Tom?

I'm not sure that their revolutionary new continuous hopping method would be any different than regular frequent hop additions, but...

You guys make me want to out and buy some fancy beers.

If you are ever passing through the Montreal Airport, stop at Moe's and get a Rickard's Red on tap. Good blend between light and dark with out the heavy aftertaste of most dark beers. they've just recently starting selling it bottles.

Sean

How could one stop at Moe's and not get a "Flaming Moe"?

Replying to my own post, mostly because tonight was an excellent night. I have discovered that indeed all the beers I loved in philly (and listed in my old post) can be obtained at a select number of liquor stores and bars up here in boston.

You know, as many great beers as there are out there, you tend to settle down with a subset of them. And it's just not a happy thing to move and not be able to find them anymore. So tonight, when I found them, lets just say I had my fill And brought a few home for tomorrow!

I am delighted to report that I had the great good fortune to spend Tuesday evening in the company of pmbuko at my home. I considered starting a "Let's Stalk Peter" thread or something, but with 3000+ posts, he really doesn't need his own thread.

We beered. Exuberantly. Joyously.

Along with my lovely bride, we enjoyed Hofbrau Original, Elysian ESB, Piraat, North Coast Pranqster, North Coast Old Rasputin, Piraat, Young's Old Nick and Rogue Old Crustacean. And homemade brownies with homemade caramel ice cream and caramel sauce (god, there's a dessert that desperately needs a catchy name. Just Eat It, perhaps).

We conversed comfortably. We listened happily. We became instant friends.

And yes, he remains surprisingly tall.

good lord.. peter gets around like a ferris wheel at the county fair.. your the third person that has commented on a visit from him..

i got $10 bucks that says he aint even got no stereo.. he just buddies up to all us for good tunes, free beer, and great food.

i will be lookin for you peter.. i got some warm pearl, a christmas fruitcake, and the yoko one 2 disc greatest hits to change your evil ways!!

bigjohn

What Tom says is true. In a desperate attempt to shrink the globe -- well, the country at least -- I'm on an unofficial and unsanctioned tour of Axiom owners' homes.

Tom's house was the third stop on my tour, and I had the luxury of an entire evening that I didn't have on my second stop (sorry Ajax!). Tom's family was wonderfully welcoming and I felt at ease very quickly. After all, they have an indoor dog. I've never met an indoor dog family that I didn't like.

During my visit, I was spoiled with good company, good beer, good music, and good dessert. The end result of it all was that I was much less interested in critical listening and was having quite a hard time keeping the silly grin off my face.

I returned to my hotel room just after midnight and slept very well. Beer was still on my mind the next day, so for dinner I looked for a good brew-pub and found the perfect spot: Pike Brewery (not far from that place where they throw fish all day). In addition to brewing their own beers, they have a great selection of foreign beers.

To go with the chicken wings appetizer, I ordered a Kilt Lifter Sotch Ale. Delicious! Next I ordered an Ayinger Celbrator Doppelbock to go with the fantastic Reuben sandwich. It was amazing, and even came with a little white plastic goat souvenir.

No apologies necessary, Peter. Because of my responsibilities, I regret that our visit was necessarily brief and that I was unable to show you some real hospitality. But, I was sure glad you came by, and I enjoyed your company tremendously.

Shortly after your visit, I said some nice things about you in a post to your brother Adam. He tried to disabuse me of those silly notions, but I assure you he was unsuccessful.

Next time you visit family in the area, circumstances permitting, maybe we'll be able to do it right. I'm looking forward to it.

Once again, Deschuttes has failed to disappoint. I bought a sixer of Cinder Cone Red Ale over the weekend. It's my new favorite.

Ok guys, just thought I'd drop in and share. I'll be having my first Beer Flight Wed. night at a local fine dining restaurant all served by the girl I'm talking to/dating. Their list is incredibly unique. They carry 9 Belgian ales (YUMMY) and 2 are Trappists (Chimay and Achel). That helps my quest to try all 6 Trappists, and so far I'm halfway. They did carry another Belgian that I can't remember the name of but only 1000 cases of it are made each year and WOW!!! was it great. Plus it's only $12 for the big bottle. Anyway, here's a question for you guys. One of the styles on the flight is a German "Smoked" ale, so has anyone tried a "smoked" ale? It should be very interesting, needless to say. They also carry a kelp ale.

I have not had one, but in my homebrewing adventures I've read a few recipes for them and thought about making one. Seems that you just smoke the grain for several hours before you proceed with anything else. I've read that it generally adds a slight smokey finish, depending on the duration of smoking and the amount of smoked grain used.

I'm going to reply to my own post, I just wanted everyone to know that I have finally made it back to the good ole USA, actually living in Jacksonville Arkansas. Went to the Class Six "beer store" and they had some very familar beer that I was enjoying in Italy, so it wont be too bad. Actually I'm just glad I'm back on line and can once again enjoy this site. This is the first post I've read so I have alot of catching up to do.

Semper Fi

Well, welcome back to this side of the pond.

I'm sure Arkansas is no substitute for Italy, but you deal with the cards you are dealt.

Now, comes the fun part...

WhatFurrer

Welcome home Wyn! Thanks.

Well, last night I plunked down almost $10 for a 4-pack (count 'em -- FOUR) of North Coast Old Stock Ale, vintage 2003.

Vintage, for a beer, you ask???

Well, the box says this beer will improve with age and recommends cellaring it for a year or more! Have a look at the brewery's description:

As a continuation of North Coast Brewing Co.'s commitment to quality, our Old Stock Ale is crafted in the tradition of our critically acclaimed Pranqster Belgian Style Golden Ale and Old Rasputin Imperial Stout. It's brewed with classic floor-malted Maris Otter Pale Malt and Fuggles Hops imported from England, so it's a beer to be served proudly.

Like a fine wine, North Coast's Old Stock Ale is intended to be laid down. With an original gravity of over 1100 and a generous hopping rate, Old Stock Ale is well-designed to round-out and mellow with age.

We know it's hard to believe that this exquisite beer can actually improve, but trust us. The waiting can be an excellent exercise in self-discipline and the reward is built in. It's been vintage dated so you'll know how long the clock has been running (of course the Solomon-like approach would be to buy some for now and some for later).

We suggest a year's cellaring to let the complex flavors develop, but the longer you wait, the greater the drinking enjoyment.

For maximum enjoyment do not serve this beer cold. To fully appreciate the complex flavors we recommend serving Old Stock Ale at room temperature. This release is limited to 1200 cases.

This may just be the most complex beer I've ever tasted. Definitely a sipper, and it really does taste better at room temperature, too.

Hey Peter. Where does North Coast Old Stock Ale come from. I ask, because so many businesses in my area call themselves North Coast "this," and North Coast "that."

Yuh see, we're on the southern shore of Lake Erie, and across the lake is that foreign country, Canada. So, that means we're on the North Coast of the United States. Isn't that clever? Of course that's true for the southern shores of Lake Superior, Huron, and Ontario as well as Erie. So conceivably, North Coast Old Stck Ale could be from anywhere between Minnesota and New York.

http://www.northcoastbrewing.com

This brewery is in California, so North Coast means it's north of San Francisco, basically.

So much for my logic. LOL

I've had several different bottle conditioned ales before and they were all better a year after I bought them than the day I bought them. Don't wait too long though (ie, 2 or 3 years), and don't let them sit at room temperature. If your choices are refrigerated or 70s-80s, go with refrigerated (although 50s is really ideal.) It really does round out and mature the flavors in the beer. The beer I'm fermenting in my basement as we speak is going to sit in bottles for a few months before I drink it (except a bottle or two of course...I'm not that patient)

Bottle-conditioned is absolutely key to cellaring beer. You must have live yeast in the bottle in order to age a beer, and it must be strong (and preferably also quite hoppy). And you have to be prepared for "change", which is not to everyone's taste "improvement". Oxidization WILL occur, and not everyone fully appreciates the sherry-like notes imparted.

But yeah, those North Coast beers rule.

I discovered through years of homebrewing, and reading about homebrewing, that live beers can mellow and improve with aging BUT...
-not at warm temps!!!
-not for too long
-and, if you're going to serve them cold, let them sit in the frig for 1-2 weeks.

That last bit is true of any live beer. Letting it sit in the frig for a week or two will encourage more yeast to fall out of suspension and hibernate at the bottom. As a result, the beer will be smooother and cleaner. It seems hop oils and husk proteins like to cling to the little yeast cells. The more cells in your glass, the more astringency you will taste. Pour smoothly and all at once to avoid pouring the yeast pack into your glass.

BTW, that Pranqster is not to my liking. I'm tasting hefeweizen malt liquor when I drink it.

I might have to buy some more and keep it hidden in the back of my closet, where the temp is pretty constantly cool -- probably around high 50s to 60ish. Is that too warm? If so, then the fridge will have to do. Also, should I lay them down or keep them vertical -- any diff?

High 50s to 60 should be fine. Not sure if it matters but I would store it upright to help it clarify.

What if I have a centrifuge?

I think 60F is too warm; I'd put them in the fridge. If they have cork stoppers, put them on their sides.

I tried the North Coast Old Stock; it reminded me very much of the Northwest-style winter warmer beers (Jubelale, Snow Cap, Wassail, etc.). Very tasty.

The comment about cork is right on, don't want the cork drying out just like a bottle of wine. If you regrigerate it you are techincally "lagering" it (prolonged storage at temperatures between 32 and 45 degrees). The beer will not benefit from this unless it was fermented using a quality lager yeast. If the label claims it's an ale, refigerating it is likely to drastically slow any bottle maturation it may undergo because its simply too cold. Granted, I think that's better than letting it sit out at high temperatures for any lengthy period. What I guess it comes down to is, if you are going to drink it in less than 6 or 8 months, you'll do fine to leave it at 55 degrees. If you plan to let it age longer, or you think you'll be pushing temperatures closer to 65, then you ought to refrigerate it.

The last bottle conditioned ale I had was Victory V-10. I left it at about 60 degrees for 8 months, and it improved significantly.

I still think you should stand the cork finished bottles up in the frig for awhile before cracking them open. If not... remove the bottle from the frig, carefully maintaining its horizontal posture, have a friend remove the cork and another friend ready with the glass to catch the flowing beer.

You ought to refrigerate it for two or more days before drinking anyway so that the beer isn't flat when you open it. And pour in one smooth motion so as not to disturb any sediment. By the way, I just sampled my beer when I moved it to the secondary fermenter... darn tasty if I may say so. Hoppy but smooth, with a subtle underlying sweetness.

I didn't know you were still brewin'. Awesome, you have more energy than me my friend.

Extract? Grain? Batch sizes? Beer styles? You go for all the latest gadgets or do it Flinstone style? Papazian vs. Miller? You gotta tell me more.

I've got Papazian's book. Pretty happy with it. I don't have all the latest stuff and can't do all grain, just the core parts for 5 gallon batches from extract. 5 gallon kettle, 6.5 and 5 gallon carboys, airlocks, etc. All in all I really enjoy it, take a couple hours out of one day to get a new batch going. Then an hour or two a week later to put it in the secondary, and then sometime in the next 3 weeks or so get around to bottling it. Not too much time really since you get to spread it out, and you get your own home made brews. Perfect for a poker game or bbq Right now I'm brewing a recipe a guy at the local homebrew store gave me. I need to get a hydrometer next so that I can get a more accurate idea of how alcoholic my beer is. My method right now is, drink a few and see how I feel...

As styles go, I like more flavorful beers generally. So I tend towards IPAs and porters. I'm on my way to catch a plane for San Francisco at the moment though so I can't elaborate too much. If I can get on over there I will, otherwise I'm going to have a lot of reading to do in a week...

Back from SF. Had a great time. On the beer note I tried Speakeasy's "Prohibition" and thoroughly enjoyed it. On *my* beer note, it's now bottled and I will be enjoying it in two weeks or so.

or at least, it may have been responsible for it.

Read this article to find out more.

Interesting article, but I can't help but feel like it's a soft sell ad for crapass American swill beer. " America's brewers don't claim to make the beer of eternity, but we are proud to provide Americans with beers of exceptional quality today." Eurch!

I was down at my favorite store yesterday and picked up this bourbon:

http://www.hitimewine.com/istar.asp?a=6&id=163121&csurl=%2Fistar%2Easp%3Fa%3D3%26dept%3D85%26class%3D%26subclass%3D%26manufacturer%3D%26pos%3D30

Big, bold bourbon. Huge carmel, smoke and earth flavors. Pretty damn good for $16, but it is not the smoothest most refined bourbon around (though it is far from raw, too).

Okey dokey, as threatened, to give you Axiomholics a place to express yourselves - here is the newly bumped beer thread.

ObContent: WhatFurrer brought up Anejo and other boutique tequila. Personally, I can't afford the stuff, though I would like to. Am I the only one who perceives "good" tequila as markedly more expensive than comparable brands of different kinds of spirits? I mean, I know you CAN spend lots of money on good hooch, but it seems to me that a decent bottle of Bourbon is $30-40 and a decent bottle of tequila is $50+. And there is very damn little tequila between the rotgut and the premium.

Draught beer rarely gives me a headache. I don't know how you guys can drink multiple american megabrews on weeknights. Good for you; I'd be a mess.

I've found pretty good tequila around $40, but I'm afraid I haven't really started dabbling in the really interesting, boutique brands. I've just had the superpremium from known brands, such as (yeah, I know) Cuervo something-more-expensive-than-1800-in-an-interesting-bottle and Herraduras Tres Generacianos. (I will now slaughter Spanish spelling!)

Oi! Muy muy incorrecto!

Which language are you guys going to slaughter next?

I'll have to second your impression of tequila pricing, Tom. $40 bucks will get you a very nice bottle of bourbon or Scotch.
I try to keep it in the $20 range for tequilas : Puerto Vallarta ain't bad, but it's very light; Herraduras Blanco and Reposado are both lively, but the prices have gone up from $20; Milagro is a silver that goes down like water, but it's prices have risen too; Cuervo Tradicional is 100% Agave.
I currently have a bottle of Cazadores Reposado ($50 for a 1.75L), which is very good. I also have a bottle of del Dueno Anejo ($20 for 750ml) which is not.

When it comes to tequila, I generally go for Sauza Hornitos. It checks in around $25 and I think it's excellent at that price. Definately my tequila of choice. If I want to put in more, I go with Patron. The only time I'll go cheaper is if I'm throwing a party or something, and then I just get Cuervo.

This reminds me that I need to try a bottle of tequila a coworker of mine gave me. He takes an annual month-long vacation to Mexico to visit his family, and one of his cousins either works for or runs a company that makes tequila. He brought me back a bottle, but I've yet to crack it open.

What is it - the brand name?

Hey Andrew - thanks for the recommendation. What happened to your avatar today?

Last night, I had a (reliably delicious) Black Butte Porter with pizza from a favorite local hole-in-the-wall. Adding to the pleasure was our venue next to the outdoor, 50-meter pool on the shores of Puget Sound in which my daughter was jubilantly enduring yet another swimming practice. Of course, I had to be clandestine about the beer, but you'd be not at all surprised how well a nice porter slides into a coffee travel mug.

Often, the ability to savor the beer in the glass is really about the people and the place. That was the best beer I've had in a long time.

Something wrong with my avatar? I see it fine...hmmm

Edit: immediately after I posted this, my avatar vanished.

2nd Edit: then it came back...? odd...

Today, Coors and Molson's got together to form the worlds 5th largest brewery.

tom, you "sneaky pete". what kind of an example are you setting for the kids? is what my you know who would have said to me. i can picture you now...dark glasses, baseball hat, and a coffee mug in a brown bag; you rascal.
dan

My wife always gets pissed when I sneak in beer or booze, please tell me yours does, too, Tom.

It's called El Jimador, BigWill. Peter and I tried it last night. It's nice - smooth and decent flavor, but nothing to get excited about.

(my 100th post!)

just stay clear of tequila that is in bottles that look like guitars or cactus.. thats a guaranteed sign that its not worth a bose!!

i had to jack twodans joke. cause i still find it funny!!



bigjohn

Bigjohn,

Your avatar is not showing up, dude...

Feel better when I see the Texas flag displayed here...

Obligatory content: Don Julio Tequila is smooth, senor`.

WhatFurrer

i see it on my post?? is it not here again?

maybe i need to go verify that the link is still good?? ringmir was having probs also..

i might have to go find a different flag..

bigjohn

My wife is the one who most often -- which is not that often -- sneaks booze around here. And the coffee travel mug is the container of choice.

Unless of course its 'bourbon slush' she's smuggling, in which case a large-mouth Nalgene bottle works great.

I see the flag, too.

There.....is......one......flag!

OK, good.. must have just been a glitch in the matrix.. they must have been changin a program.

bigjohn

Don't tell me I'm the only one who gets that reference (other than Ken) ...

Of course my wife was appalled. More than usual, even. It is exceedingly rare for me to pull that kind of stunt. My genetic code requires me to do something stupid periodically to remind her how utterly simple Men are.

As far as an example for the kids goes, I'm a firm believer in not glamorizing alcohol. My kids routinely see me drink ONE beer with dinner, 3-4 nights a week. I always offer them a taste. They rarely accept, and invariably find it yucky. It's just a beverage.

American liquor laws are retarded, with the possible exceptions of Vegas and New Orleans.

Looks like the avatar thing is fixed. Disturbance in the force.

Nope, you're not the only one who got the reference...

Looks like it may be an issue with my browser here at work as I can see all other avatars but not Johns'.

I even cleaned my cache and still no TX flag...

Oh well, I will check to see if it appears when I log in at the house...

WhatFurrer

My first trip to Vegas when I was 17 was awesome. Drinking and gambling in every casino we stopped in - $.25 Old Milwaukees and well shots at the Westward HO! Complimentary bloody mary/champagne fountains. Walking the strip and downtown, riding in taxis, all with a bottle of beer in hand! Much better than Disneyland.

don't worry Peter, there are a few of us.

On a sad, somewhat related note, Jerry Goldsmith (I sure hope that's how he spells Jerry) passed away today. The entire film industry must be reeling from that one.

In reply to:

---

The entire film industry must be reeling from that one.

---

Pun intended, right?

You guys going to share the reference or not?

my goodness, i didn't catch that...it must have seeped into my subconsious. I certainly didn't mean to make light of his death.

BigWill,

Check out the Star Trek:TNG episode "Chain of Command" parts I and II (#136 and #137, respectively).

The reference I made was to star trek: "there...are....three.....lights!"

if that's the one you want explained....it just shows I am indeed a dork.

Edit: it seems someone has already provided much more information than my lazy self...heh

It's "There are ...four ...lights!"

Not 3.

Now you decide whether I'm telling the truth...

Hmmm. I thought there were five lights, but I've always been impressionable, especially after extended periods of torture and eating raw taspar egg.

And here I was thinking you guys were making literary references that went over my head. I feel better now.

yeah I am wrong, there's four lights, and he remains unconvinced that there are five.....or does he?

Speaking of all this TREK...

Anyone going to the convention in Las Vegas?

I wish I could...be interesting to say the least.

WhatFurrer

i remember seeing somewhere that a hotel has put in a whole mulit-million dollar star trek experience at one of the casinos in vegas. apparently, its supposed to be better than 3-D, they are calling it 4-D.. it incorporates, live action, with animatronics, with video, and sound, and lights, and etc..

my brother-in-law is a big trekkie, and he wants to go to it real bad..

bigjohn

Jeesh. Get a room.

Okay in the interest of bringing this inherently OT thread back to itself...

Romulan Ale. Discuss.

btw, Deschutes Brewery strikes again with a new summer seasonal called Twilight. Fabulously fresh and balanced, with enough hop flavor to be interesting but not too citrusy.

Romulan Ale-my thought is that it is surprisingly potent for something that is termed an ale. It's also a weird color.

Klingon Blood Wine. Discuss.

Romulan Ale looks strangely similar to Blue Cream Soda...

WhatFurrer

I'll have to make some of that sometime...think I could just dump a crapload of blue food coloring into a light ale?

...I hear a 2nd one is in the works too, this one really is a must see, perhaps esp if you hate trek

errrr i guess it was out or straight to video?

www.trekkies2.com

Speaking of beer and Vegas... a friend with a real German wife, born and raised in Bavaria I think, went to the HofbrauHaus in Vegas and apparently she got all misty eyed. They said it was the real deal. You can find 10% off coupons in the ubiquitous hotel magazine.

http://www.hofbrauhauslasvegas.com/

Holy Moley! Thanks for sharing, BigWill. I had no idea. It does seem that they tried to make it authentic.

I've been to the Hofbrauhaus in Munich. It was one of my very favorite places that I have ever visited. Go figure.

Like I needed another excuse to go to Vegas...

Tom, a store very near my house has Czechvar @ $7.99/6 pack. They wouldn't sell me just one bottle! How's that stuff compare to Pilsener Urquell?

I prefer Budweiser Budvar (nee Czechvar) to Urquell; I find it slightly softer and sweeter. Or, at least I did in Prague. Bwa ha ha ha ha!!

tom, maybe it's time for a beer shoot-out. skip the tv sets, avr's and speakers. i would guess we all can afford a six pack or single to back up your test results. guess the only major stumbling blocks would be imported vs domestic, and cans or bottles.
does this need it's own thread?
dan

LOL!!

If BigWill and I ever manage to span the thousand miles between us, you can be sure there will be a Axiom Beer Shootout Report. As to whether we'd have the discipline to do it double-blind, well, it depends on your definition of double-blind

I have probably already mentioned that I am a Certified Beer Judge, so I actually have some experience with and guidelines for psuedo-objective tasting. Once upon a time, some friends and I did a series of tastings of commercial beer using scoring sheets and double-blind conditions. The problem was, we found that the time it takes to actually analyze, score and debrief the beers really detracted from the experience of "drinking a beer with friends".

In homebrew competitions, I typically can judge only ~5 beers per hour, while drinking 2-3 ounces of each. You owe the brewer thoughtful analysis and comments. Depending on the style, it becomes very difficult to give credible feedback beyond about 8 beers - fewer for stronger or hoppier styles. Palate fatigue.

That being said, it can be fun and informative to pick a style, assemble some examples, have the designated steward serve the beers, and try to describe what you like and why using the style guidelines.

I never submitted any of my beers for review by the judges, Tom, but I did talk to some judges who were rating homebrews for customers of a particular supply store. They weren't happy campers - it seems everybody was submitting their "problem" beers and these guys had to drink it. LOL

I did share an oatmeal stout with the head brewers of BJs in Brea years ago. It was a good one (hard for me to say how good it was - it was my baby). They were polite in their praise, but not effusive.

I've done totally unprofessional judging of cordials (homebrew liquor!). There was a lovely Irish Cream that I still have in the fridge... Needless to say, I was totally $#!^-faced at the end of the evening...

bigwill,
where did you find Budvar (never heard it called Czechvar)? my wife is off-the-boat czechoslovakian (slovak) and i've travelled there several times. her dad is a beer nut and he prefers budvar over pilsner. i love them both but like pilsner better. i didn't know you could buy budvar in the states. every time someone from her family comes to visit, they bring budvar or gambrinus or zlaty bazant. awesome all, but budvar and pilsner are the best!

dave

I don't know where you're located (i'm in soCal). There is a "new" chain out here called BevMo (maybe Beverages and More?) that carries the Czechvar. Also HiTime Cellars in Costa Mesa - though they had run out as of 2 weeks ago.

http://www.hitimewine.com

It's a great store to visit and they also ship stuff (i'm sure it costs $).

Not to turn this thread into a wine thread, but I'm heading off to wine country in Temecula next week. Anybody have knowledge of the wines from that area?

Well, I just returned from my gambling/drinking binge in our local wine country. At risk of sounding snobby, I suppose I should have asked something like, "Do you really think the lining in a can of Keystone gives it a bottled beer taste?", or, "What's better - OE or the Bull?" JK

Hey, hey, hey, 4 in a row.

I bought some of this wine on my trip (click on the Meritage):

http://www.mountpalomar.com/wines/wines.htm

It was my 2nd favorite from all the wines we sampled over two days. Unfortunately, the best wine we sampled does not appear to be available online. Maybe if you call them they'll hook you up (it's the reserve Cabernet from Sperling Vineyard):

http://www.mauricecarriewinery.com/

Gratiutous post, solely to break BigWill's string.

Hey, I care about this stuff and really do appreciate the trip report, I just don't have anything pithy to say at the moment.

Well, I am drinking some Sandeman's Founders Reserve Port, and it is mighty tasty, fwiw.

Going to Philadelphia today for a week. Pretty psyched about it too. I'm going to pop by the microbrewery (Iron Hill) in my home town, maybe swing by Victory too if I have time. Probably bring back a case or two of Yuengling.

I think I said the same thing on page 4 , but I'll say it again: I really like the Philly beers I've tried .

Bump. Somehow this thread made it down to page 2. That's completely unacceptable. After attempting to hijack a thread in another area with beer-related items figured I should bring the discussion over here, where it belongs.

What are some suggestions for good watering holes in Colorado Springs, CO? I'll be there for 2 nights in a couple of weeks on business. I'd like to get some tasty beer while I'm there. Thanks.

Pete

ANY BAR- HAVE AN ORIGINAL YELLA BELLY..

as red sovine likes to call it, some 'caalarada cool-aid'!!

bigjohn

Good on you, Pete! I was thinking the same thing.

I'm also a little concerned that the Politics thread is getting more views/posts than this one. Priorities, people!!

I'm sure the Coloradans will be along to answer your question correctly.

I've visited the Springs a couple times, although I've not beered there enough to be a local expert. However, I would not miss Phantom Canyon Brewing. Great place, GREAT beers.

I understand "good" watering hole. I'm just having trouble with the concept of a "bad" watering hole. Doesn't compute. The whole thing gets to that old joke that when you are reviewing the female clientele, the only difference between a 4 and a 10 is eleven beers.

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only difference between a 4 and a 10 is eleven beers

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quit lying ray!! you would take a 4 home after a shot of tequila and a rub on the thigh.. oh, wait, that was me.

here is a good question. being that the majority of us are intelligent, common sense kind of people.. why do we continue to drink heavily, knowing that it will just set us up to make some real bad decisions sometimes?

i have always wondered that about myself.

bigjohn

Don't worry about it.

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being that the majority of us are intelligent, common sense kind of people..

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Hey, speak for yourself!

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Hey, speak for yourself!

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i cant, the beer wont let me!!



bigjohn

bigjohn, I continue to drink heavily because I can't find anything that gets close to making me feel as lousy as a premium hangover. I once attempted "death by tequilla". That was, perhaps, the best hangover I ever had. Even now, just typing the words cuases my eyelids to hurt.

Well I guess it's back to the beer we go. I have to add another Belgian to my list. Come to think of it, I can't say that I've ever had a bad Belgian beer. Is there actually such a thing? Anyway, I had a Duvel last night. The bottle opened with a nice "psssss" Poured the glass and for a second there I thought it was Champagne. Nice golden color, BIG head on top, and LOTS of carbon. Taste was rather delicate and with all the carbon it tickled my tongue at first. The finish was a full of that wheaty taste and lingered for several minutes. Definately one worth picking up again.

Duvel is nice. Subtle, clean, strong.

Tom got me on a Belgian kick earlier this summer. By far the most impressive of the bunch was Karmeliet Tripel. Softer, yeastier, WAY fruitier than Duvel. In fact it was the fruitiest tasting beer I ever had that didn't actually claim to have fruit in it. Strong kiwi and pear finish, bready yeast flavors, great head retention and crystal clear. Expensive, but great.

Thanks again for the heads up on that one, Tom.

Funny you should mention Duvel.

The other night, I had a Maredsous 8, which is brewed by Duvel under license for the Maredsous Abbey. It was a delicious dubbel, reminiscent of (but not identical to) Duvel. As you said, very highly carbonated, but rich and complex. I am always amazed how such strong Belgian beers can be not only complex but also light in body. I'll drink it again, and can recommend it without hesitation. Shoot, I'm just happy to be able to get beers like this at my local grocery store.

I wish our stores carried more Belgians. My ultimate beer quest is to find Westvleteran (and to try all of the Trappistes). Fortunately one of our better stores has learned that Belgians are quite popular around here and in the last year have gone from stocking 1 (Chimay Red) to 5 different Belgian brews. I just hope that this trend continues. For some reason Hoegaarden is VERY popular. They got in 2 cases worth last Wed. and sold all of it by that Fri. *grumble* I'll have to keep an eye out for that stuff.

Tom, I'm probably telling you something you already know, but mash temperatures affect the amount of fermentable sugars available to the yeast. Mashes at the lower end of the temperature range result in beers high in alcohol and low in body (all/most the sugars are converted by yeast into alcohol) while higher temp mashes result in lower alcohol brews with fuller, sweeter malt body. And Belgians are known to use adjuncts like candi sugar, too, right?

In the case of Belgians, the complexity in the flavor tends to come from the yeast strains used. Belgian yeasts contribute esters to the final brew that imparts some characteristic flavors (generally regarded as banana & clove flavors). If you make a beer, and then ferment half the batch with a belgian ale yeast, and half with an american ale yeast, the resulting two beers will taste quite noticeably different. And the one with more "complexity" to the flavor will certainly be the belgian.

ringmir, those beers you were making should be close to drinkable now, huh?
I'm definitely going to try to get back into it myself. I'm going to get a large frezer chest and use it as a fermenting cellar/storage cellar. Maybe be able to brew in the summer.

<--- He wants some of your first batch.

Both of you, and your missus, are more than welcome. Maybe when you guys make your first Disneyland trip?

Indeed...the ESB I made I've been enjoying for a while. I have a Belgian wheat I need to bottle, I'll do that by saturday. Next brew session is a vanilla cream stout, probably do that in a week, to drink come winter.

Vanilla cream stout would be a cream stout with vanilla bean? extract? couple scoops of ice cream?

How about an authentic hemp ale? I was thinking about that the other day. Would you dry hop with the dope? Use it in the mash (it would then be boiled)?

For the vanilla cream stout I am planning to brew up a cream stout, and while it's in the primary I'll soak 3 good quality vanilla beans in a small amount of vodka. Then I'll add that when I transfer it to the secondary.

For a hemp ale I don't know what to tell ya. Dry hopping is great for adding aroma, but does nothing significant to flavor or bitterness. If you added it in the boil, it would extract more of the oils and whatnot, but you would probably drive off any flavor or aroma depending on how long you boiled it.

I was more interested in extraction of the active ingredient rather than flavor. It's irrelevant, though. I haven't so much as seen a piece of weed since 1989.
It seemed like an interesting proposition - one that would certainly be popular up there in the Bay Area. Think how much of that beer you could sell in the parking lot of a Dead concert!

You CAN buy hemp beer up here: Humboldt Hemp

Keep in mind that hemp and marijuana are not the same plant. They are cousins, but there is no THC in hemp.

Oh! I thought it was the same stuff. That explains why nobody smokes their ropes.

Interesting idea! Not sure how well it would work, since THC supposedly needs to be "activated" by heat at fairly high (ha!) temperatures. I don't know if I believe that, though.

Regardless, the effects of ingested THC are markedly different from inhalation. Onset can take hours, for one, and the effects tend to last longer and be far more intense. Plus, depending on your recipe, you frequently only get the THC and not any of the other psychoactive cannabinoids. That's one of the reasons why medical marijuana patients prefer to smoke rather than use Marinol, the (legal) prescription synthetic THC pill.

Speaking of alcoholic beverages that would appeal to Dead concertogers, though, I have heard stories of extracting the psilocybin from magic mushrooms by soaking them in vodka. I'm not sure who's crazy enough to be interested in drunken tripping (I'm not), but if anyone is, I imagine it would be the same sort of person who is still following the Dead around.

Maybe when I go to Bonnaroo again next year, I'll throw some pieces of portobello in a bottle of Five 'o Clock and try to make a few bucks off the dirty hippies stoned enough not to know the difference

Funny stuff, Josh. You have a lot more sense than I did at your age - but that ain't saying much.

BigWill, You're forgetting that part of doing well in college is learning to master the art of bullshitting. Don't let him fool you into thinking he's smart.


Just being hard on you josh. You're our favorite college student (who's currently in the country).

*BUMP* Ok back to page one. You guys are slacking.
Anyway, thought I'd add a few things. First off, the Belgians have been dethroned this year. Westvleteren Abt12 lost to AleSmith Barrel Aged Speedway Stout in the RateBeer Best Summer 2004. GO USA!!!!

Also, I picked up a 6 of Hoegaarden (WHO-GAR-DEN) this weekend and I must say that this is the one beer that I could drink at any time other than winter (Stout and Porter season). It is by far the smoothest and most unique wheat beer I've had thus far. Well maybe a tie with Duvel. Anyway thought I'd let you guys know.

since it was bumped, i will add a story!!

i got out of the house for the first time last night since the baby was born, and went to drink a few and smoke some cigars and watch MNF with my buddies. i was in a hurry, and short on cash so i stopped at the convience store and they had MILLER HIGH LIFE in a 32 ounce tall-boy can for $1.49. now, i have NEVER had MILLER HL.. i have had miller lite, and genuine draft, but never the original. to be honest, i dont like miller lite or the GD, but a bargain is a bargain!! i looked in the beer cooler for something else to fit my needs, but there was nothing standing out to me. so, i grabbed 2 cold cans, a bag of pork skins, and headed toward the counter.

once i got to my buddies house, i pulled out one of the cans and sat it on the coffee table, and went to the kitchen to put the other can in the fridge. well, when i got back, they were all looking at me like i had grown a penis out of my forehead. their look of astonishment was rather unsettling.. i assured them it was OK, i hadnt been abducted by aliens, and that i was trying it out cause it was cheap. i mean, i got diapers and stuff to buy now.. i cant be wasting good money on expensive beer.

so, i pop the top and raise it up for a smell.. **sidenote**, a 32 oz can feels about like trying to drink from a 55 gallon drum. OK, take a whiff, and its not too bad. not great.. they are still lookin at me, so i think the penis on my head has gotten bigger.. finally take a drink, and to my surprise, its not all bad. it seemed a little bitter, but not unbearable.. it got easier with each drink, and by the second quarter, it was just like any other beer. i decided to start pouring the next can in a glass and keep the can in the fridge, it kinda got warm at the bottom of the first one. it went down fine, and i am proud to say that i have found my new choice, that is, as long as it stays $1.49 a can!! i am the consumate bargain shopper!!

BTW- i think this goes to prove, i am just a beer whore.. i have found that i will drink any beer, dark or ale, regular or light, cold or warm, thick and thin, expensive or cheap!! it dont matter very much at all.. to be honest, i think i have only turned 2 beers away in my whole life.. one was a samual adams, YUCK.. and the other was a german beer that had stuff floating in it.. the barback said it was to add flavor, i just felt like i was drinkin from some cowboys spit cup!

OK, story over.. point and laugh if you want, i dont care!!

bigjohn

I would point and laugh just on general principles (and because you invited me to), but I'm very much in the "whatever makes you happy" camp. I'm glad you enjoyed the Miller. I've found that those beers taste better if you can't smell them. No headache?

So, there was not ACTUALLY a peni$ growing out of your forehead, then?



Thanks for sharing!

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I've found that those beers taste better if you can't smell them.

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Which is why they'd better be close to frozen if I'm even going to bother cracking one open.

It's sad when you are looking at a AV site and the longest thread is about beer. But then again, it is beer.

Has anyone tried Stone Ale. They make some great stuff. I live in San Diego and seem to be surrounded by Ale houses. Green Flash (so-so right now but will grow) Pizza Port (international gold) Carl Strause (Nice after work beer) and Stone (all around great. With 3 out of the 4 within a 10min drive it is like hitting a gold mine in San Diego. With all of these great houses around me I think that I have to tell you all the New Castle Brown is the winner hands down. If you have not tried it do yourself a favor. It is a "Brown" but drinks like a very rich lite.

Really there would be much longer threads if all the posts about their respective topics were confined to one place. What happens though is that topics are raised and forgotten and re-raised, over and over again in various threads. The beer thread just helps us to refrain from thread jacking with beer comments.

Found a beer that I liked. It's Flying Dog Horn Dog. It's a barleywine style, and I really enjoyed the complex flavor. And it didn't have that nasty aftertaste that always makes me want to gag when I drink beer. Anyone else tried this one?

You're a lucky b*st*rd to be living in San Diego.
I usually stop by the San Marcos Brewery on my way to Del Mar every summer, but I've been wanting to visit that PizzaPort place. And I was unaware that Stone operated a brewpub. Whereabouts are both of those places located, if you don't mind?

I haven't tried that Flying Dog, but I do love a good barleywine. I can get some more for you to try.

Cool.
This one's got quite a bit of a kick.

Pizza Port is in Solana Beach, about 1 mile from the Del Mar Race Track. If you know Del Mar well then exit Lomas Santa Fe (off the I5). Head west on Lomas Santa Fe untill you hit the Pacific Coast Highway 1, turn right and the Pizza Port is on the left right as you turn onto Pacific Coast Highway. Easy to find but if you get a little lost then ask, everyone knows where the place is. Good beer.

www.pizzaport.com

Stone Brewing is located in San Marcos, about 20 min NE of Del Mar. They make Arogant Bastard Ale along with a few others. Fridays are great days to hit that place up.

www.stonebrewing.com

Green Flash brewing is located in Vista, about 20 min NE of Del Mar. They have daily taistings as well and the Brew Master is one of those guys that will keep the beer running free without a limit on the taistings. He will also tell you everything there is to know about beer making.

www.greenflashbrew.com

Awesome, thank you very much.

I really like the Stone Pale Ale - perfectly balanced IMO.

Not a big pale fan from anyone. Have you tried New Castle Brown Ale?

I've probably tried about 2,000 of them.
My wife likes them quite a bit. I prefer something with a bit more alcohol if I'm spending my own money. I tried to make a Newcastle-style Brown Ale at home but I just couldn't stand to make a beer that weak.
BJ's Red comes in at around 7-9% ABV and has the same kind of flavor - just concentrated. Another you might like is the Gordon Biersch Marzen - which can be found in bottles at the supers.

BJs is great, but I think they do pizza better than beer. Man I love that stuff, but they're only down south.

Ok, I might as well come clean now. I drank not one, but TWO CANS OF MILLER HIGH LIFE today. My friend was throwing a white trash party, and that's what I brought. The secret to making it taste good is to first take a sip of Keystone Light, then use the Miller HL to wash the nasty flavor away.

my sister-in-law stopped and stayed with us this weekend. she has been on a 5 day road trip from cali to austin.. anyway, she brought me a 6-pack of west coast beer. it is called 'extra pale ale' from the slo brewing company in san luis opisbo. i assumed it was from a micro brewery there, til i read the label on the bottle, and it says "bottled in chicago, ill"..

without being too harsh, i would say i didnt care for this beer at all.. when it says "extra pale", thats exactly what it means. the beer had a very stale , unpleasnt taste to it. and it left a bitter aftertaste. definitely not a beer that i would drink on a regular basis. i will finish the six pack just because i cant let it go to waste, but i am terribly unimpressed with it as a whole.

bigjohn

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I created a monster! In its short life, the politics thread has already managed to overtake the beer thread! waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! drink more people, then the politics don't matter so much! (the previous statement is a load of crap, btw.)

ringmir, you're going to pay for that. The Karmic backlash will be terrible, I'm sure. I had already noted with immense sadness that the serious, albeit civil, discourse on the politics thread had overtaken the joyful wanderings of the beer thread.

Obbeer:

I like the Stone beers a lot. Any brewery that makes credible strong beers has my respect and gratitude. It seems to me that there is slimmer margin and lower sales volumes compared to chick-friendly beers. Stone (and others) are creating big, satisfying beers for real beer drinkers.

The SLO beer is probably just another marketing ploy. There are lots of beers that exist in name only, being produced by the beer factory du jour. I've always hated Pete's Wicked for that reason. There are others, including the once-venerable Sam Adams. Beer needs a sense of place; an inorganic marketing campaign impugns my sense of joyful drinking.

Peter, I hope you feel better after unburdening yourself. You are welcome home any time, prodigal beer drinker.

Newcastle is one word. Sorry - Mark will undoubtedly berate my sense or propriety, but that was killing me. It's known as Newkie Broon to natives, btw. I like somewhat sweeter and stronger beers, personally, but that is clearly the standard by which all Northern English Brown Ales are measured.

Deschutes Obsidian Stout is fabulous with vanilla ice cream.

Gordon Biersch Marzen, another San Diego beer. I had my wedding reception at Gordon Biersch Beer Garden in San Diego. Beautiful place for a wedding (chick thought), great place for a wedding with beer (guy thought)

My bad on the "Newcastle" spelling

lomb7, I had my wedding "reception" at the GB in Vegas. Couldn't have been happier.

bigjohn, SLO Brewing used to have quality beers. I haven't had one lately (years) so I can't comment, but I agree with Tom that many excellent beers are being ruined by marketing, accountants, and multiple brewing locations. Add Redhook to that list Tom.

BJs was incredible when their first brewery opened years ago in Brea. The brewers there were great guys and really did a good job making BIG, BIG, BIG beers. They were kind enough to be my yeast suppliers for a couple of years. They frequently made beers that were so high in fermentables that the yeast (wyeast 1056 most of the time) would conk out as the alcohol content rose above 10%. 5 pints of that stuff ($2 pints at happy hour!) was about all I could handle.

Anyways, their quality suffered when they opened new breweries and tried to have each site specialize in making only one or two beers. Don't know how good they are now.

One of these days I'm going to make a barleywine...haven't gotten around to it yet though. I figure I'll toss in some champagne yeast to finish it off when the yeast conks out on me. Have you ever used wyeast 3021 or 3347? Or white labs wlp715? I'm going to have to look into it, figure out which is best...

I believe on a couple of occasions I had a reason to use champagne yeasts, but I just used the dried version. Both of those you listed seem like good choices I suppose. With the proper ale yeast and some energizer I believe you can get up to about 11-12%, but the champagne yeasts are more often used.
I'm sure you know this already, but super strong brews require a lengthy mellowing time in the bottle - a year or more sometimes. Hard to wait that long. You'll also need proper cellaring facilities.
I cleaned up my garage and rebuilt some brewing equipment this week. Got it all ready to go, except I need a new mash tun. Ice chest style, infusion mash tun. Any thoughts on design, copper vs PVC, or maybe used on line sources?
Thanks

I have been doing extract brewing for a while and am looking into making "the move" to all-grain myself. I'd probably set up something like this for my mash tun. There's some variations where instead of the slotted copper tubing people use the stainless steel hose braid that some flexible tubing comes wrapped in. I've heard that with a little trial and error people get 75-80% efficiency with a simple setup like this, so I don't think you can beat it for cost effectiveness. Looks like a pretty simple saturday project if you've got a torch, otherwise the stainless hose braid is probably easier and supposedly works just as well.

Yeah, my friend made a copper one like that. I've also seen PVC versions, which strike me as easier to assemble (I'm torchless).
The primary advantage to going all grain is cost. You may not notice any improvement in your beers (assuming you're using some specialty malts now in your extract beers), and the grain creates a lot more work and possibility for problems like tannic harshness and infections.
OTOH, when you hit a good one there does seem to be a little more "pride of the creator" in your enjoyment of the beer.

Yeah, I am using specialty malts, pretty frequently actually. I know it's cheaper...the draw for me is the artistry of it more than anything else though. So long as you can stick your temperatures properly, everything should work out nicely. You should look into the stainless hose braid option. This has a few pictures of it under the "cooler detail" header down the page a bit. If you go with PVC make sure you get something "food grade" that can tolerate the temperatures without releasing any nasty toxic chemicals...

Hi guys,

I don't really brew any more - I'd rather spend any given Saturday with my kids than washing buckets. But I made my share of beer (and then some), having brewed >100 batches all grain. I am convinced that some brewers are engineers, some are cooks, and some are scientists, but we are ALL janitors.

My mash tun is a cooler with the PVC manifold. You need to use the kind of PVC that is rated for Hot water (not the regular, white kind). I don't know the lingo, but it is kind of tan in color. My joints are NOT glued (just shoved together), because I am not convinced that the PVC cement, even for that rated pipe, would be impervious to temperatures near boiling, and I want to be double-sure I can get it absolutely clean each use. The PVC is easier to work with, but you still should get on that sweating-copper-joints-with-a-torch bandwagon. I mean, it's a big, fiery thing! Closest you can come to a flame thrower in suburbia! Insert Tim Taylor noise here. It is not difficult to do, and you simply CANNOT make perfect creme broulee without a propane torch; it is the only way to carmelize/harden the sugar on top without heating up the custard underneath. My wife is convinced that I am borrowing her kitchen tool when I need to do plumbing, rather than vice-versa.

I'd disagree somewhat with my friend bigwill about the inherent qualitative differences between extract and all-grain brewing. I feel that I can pick out an extract beer, even a well-made one, virtually every time. There is something about the residual protien and residual sugars that just isn't "there" with extracts. Likewise, the ability to mash the specialty grains with the rest of the malt (rather than do some infusion during the boil) actually reduces the tendency to leach astringent compounds from the grain. I don't think that properly-made all-grain beers are any more susceptible to infections than extract beers; in each case, you just have to be careful what happens AFTER the boil. It's sanitary at that point regardless of how you got your sugars.

It takes more time. But man, there is NOTHING like the smell of a barley mash! And you have much greater control over the entire process.

Look at it this way - extracts are basically "canned food". If you are going to spend the time, money and energy to make something truly delicious, don't you use FRESH ingredients?

I will go to all grain, it's just a matter of when really. There are other problems with extract too. It's impossible to get the color of a beer right, you're reliant on consistency of the extracts, etc. As for the torch, I've already got an acetylene torch so...yeah. It's a fun thing to own. I've done some minor plumbing work with it, so putting together something for a mash tun doesn't seem too complicated. Ever want to get a bbq going in a blizzard? No problem, large torch tip, fingers crossed that you don't overheat the grill... (oxy-acetylene of course is even more fun, but then it's fingers crossed you don't burn through the grill.) I am the engineer type of brewer myself. I think your classifications are spot-on. There's organic chemistry for the chemists, procedure and equipment for the engineers, and culinary freedom for the cooks.

Thanks for your expertise, Tom.
When I mentioned an increased chance of infection in all grain beers, I was referring to the likelihood that ringmir will be storing, pouring and measuring his malt in the vicinity of his fermenters, bottles, bottling pail, etc... In that situation there is an increased chance of the lacto-bacillus bug getting started. Just makes sanitation of even greater importance.

I'm going to start back up this winter. The old lady quit her job to be stay-at-home mom. It's either start brewing or start drinking Lucky Lager.

Mark, you're right, of course. I did not consider the environmental impacts of living with grain when considering the all grain brewing process. I'll just shut up now and leave it to you "Active" brewers

Do they even still make Lucky Lager? That was a legendary beer. Loved those picture puzzles they used to have in the caps!

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Loved those picture puzzles they used to have in the caps!

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Lone-Star beer still does that.. i have a buddy of mine that has a whole jar full of the lone star puzzle caps.. they are fun when the parties slow down.

i have never had lucky beer, but i would suspect lonestar is better??

bigjohn

No way, Tom! Don't shut up now. That was just my INTJ personality not being sensitive enough to your feelings. Seriously, I would love to be able to discuss homebrewing with you guys.

Just as seriously, I was actually scouring the ads for some Old Milwaukee sales, but I didn't find any. That's a cheap beer I can live with. By Xmas, though, I should have some nice homebrewed ale available (maybe start with a stout or porter) - if any of y'all are coming to soCal.

If anybody needs a vintage Schmidling Malt Mill, I might be able to help you

Okay, this is a totally shameless, Str$$m-free bump. Criminy, what a train wreck.

Mark, one of these days, you and I ARE going to drink beer together. It might be one you've made, it probably won't be one I have, but it will very likely be the best beer I've had in a long while.

I'm going home to my lovely wife and charming children now. There will be Deschutes Obsidian Stout and Mirror Pond, Paulaner Oktoberfest (yippee!) and Elysian Porter to choose from when I exit my vehicle next to the beer fridge in the garage. The distance from the bottle opener to the glass will seem interminable.

You guys should go listen to some music sometimes. And maybe roast a pig or something.

I'll take "Prattling Off Topic" for $200, Alex.

Have a great weekend, friends.

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I'll take "Prattling Off Topic" for $200, Alex.

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[Alex]You've found an Audio Daily Double!

[Tom]I'll wager $1500, Alex.

[Alex]Very well. In December of 2000, this person was awarded the year's Foot in Mouth award for uttering the following:

"I think that 'Clueless' was very deep. I think it was deep in the way that it was very light. I think lightness has to come from a very deep place if it's true lightness."

Is that a real quote, pmb?

unfortunately, yes.

Do I win if I googled it first?

Do Jeopardy™ contestants have access to Google? Hmmmm???

My guess is Alicia Silverstone, since she acted in it (I'm ashamed to admit I know that).

Bing! Correct!

BigDaddyTom,
I tried that Deschutes Mirror Pond Pale Ale yesterday. Very good, but I prefer the Stone Pale Ale or the pale at my local brewery. The Mirror Pond had a great malt body; a noticeable, yet not too assertive, hop presence; and a clean finish. About halfway through the bottle, though, that citric tartness of the Cascade hops was all I could taste. I don't really like Cascade hops that much.
I'll try the Stout next time.
Did you ever notice any difference in your beers by cracking the malt yourself as opposed to having the store do it? I always bought in bulk, so the first batch would use freshly cracked (previous day usually) malt and the next batch or two would use stored stuff.
Is that malt mill a little dinky one or a big one?

Hey bigwill,

I can't disagree with your perceptions of the Mirror Pond. It always tastes fresh, balanced and reliable to me, but it does definitely present the hops in a non-nuanced way. The Stout and Porter are just super.

I always cracked my grain the night before.

The maltmill is not commercial-grade; it is for the homebrewer. I'll snap a pic if I have a chance. Nicely crafted American product, but homebrew shops are now more able to accommodate this kind of service than they were 10-15 years ago. Back then, I was buying sacks of grain as a co-op venture with my club because there was no credible local retail homebrew presence.

I'm thinking that If I tell you guy's I really like MGD.............you may come down on me a little. What can I say, I like the stuff which is odd for me as I don't like a lot of US made beer.........or Canadian for that matter. I tend to drink MGD, Corona and every now and then Sleemans.

MGD is not bad. It's a slamming type of beer. Avalanche is one of my favorite then Blue Moon white Belgian Ale.

I personally think you should drink what you like. I don't think less of folks who choose to drink bud light for instance. It only bothers me when they refuse to *try* other beers.

beer is good.
war is bad.

I nominate rigmir for the "post of the year" award. (Since there is a lot of misunderstanding going around these days, I feel it necessary to explain that I'm completely serious about what I just said. I laughed aloud when I read the post, and marveled at its simplicity, its lucidity, and it's profundity. I liked it.)

Wish I'd said that!

Not many breweries in the Middle East.

Tom, wanna trade that malt mill or a mash tun for my humidor?

Yeah...finished brewing up a brown ale last night, transfered it to the carboy, drank some sccotch and a few homebrews, came on here, and saw the politics thread progressing along and the beer thread off the page. Figured it needed a bump. So, IPA in hand, that was what I came up with... *shrug* Glad it gave you a chuckle

Hey ringmir, one way to get some malty authenticity to your extract beers is to use a few pounds of whatever (specialty malts or even a few pounds of 2 row) in a small icechest as sort of a mini-mash. I used to use an old Coleman jug with a spigot on the bottom, barely sparge at all, let the wort collect and settle in a bucket or pan, and then siphon it off into your brewkettle - leaving the debris behind. Not the best way to do it, but if you don't disturb the grain bed too much and don't sparge too much, you may like the results. And you'll get a feel for the extra work grain brewing entails.
Are you using any sort of temperature controlled brewing area? Or is it cool enough where you live to just let the carboys set on the ground?

I do some mini-mash with most of my brews actually. Generally not more than 2 lbs of grain though. I think it does help a decent amount. Eventually I'll move to all grain, but I'm moving around too much still to accumulate that much equipment. As for the weather, I'm in Boston right now, so if I leave the carboy in the basement the temp holds right around 70. A month ago I had to run a "swamp cooler" set up on it or else the temps would have been around 76. In the winter I'll have to see, I'm hoping it will be cool enough at the rear of the basement (away from the furnace and all) to be within lager temps. If not I'll move it up to my room and make sure the thermostat stays in the ale range. At my old place I just left the carboy in my room in the winter and it stayed in the ale temperature region.

Bump.

Hey beer experts. Any suggestions for good Marzens or Double Bocks to celebrate the coming fall and Oktoberfest??

For traditional German styles, the classics endure - Hofbrauhaus and Paulaner. I know, not inspired. Of course, if you can find a local brewer with the guts to make those styles, toss a nickel in his cup. Problem is, I don't think you can get the depth of flavor in those big lagers without doing a decoction mash and enduring a good, long fermentation - both aspects being technically and economically beyond the reach of most small, craft breweries.

They had HB Oktoberfest at Costco. What a country. Life is good.

I just knew that the beer thread would not leave us.

Tom Tuttle, we have a brewery here in Pittsburgh that makes a German style lager, Hefeweizen, and a few seasonal beers. Throw a nickel in their cup indeed; I support this place at least once a week. : )

Two questions: has anyone been to the Hofbrauhaus in Cincinnati

and

has anyone ever tried Fat Tire beer? I heard its good.

btw, about to celebrate Oktoberfest this weekend:

http://www.pennbrew.com

[Good times!

(can't get the URL to work)

To nitpick...a Hefeweizen is a traditional German style, but it's technically an ale. Lagers are fermented using a bottom fermenting yeast as opposed to ales where the yeast is top fermenting. Additionally the temperature ranges are different, lagers are fermented (and aged, referred to as "lagering") at cooler temps than ales.

A few commercial examples (not that you can find them everywhere):

Octoberfests:
Paulaner, Hacker-Pschorr, Ayinger, Hofbräu, Spaten, Goose Island, Samuel Adams

Double Bocks:
Paulaner Salvator, Ayinger Celebrator, Spaten Optimator

God, how I love Ayinger Celebrator.

Yes, Peter, but you know it can never work

Andrew's got it covered on the classic examples. Great beer time of year. I forgot about Goose Island. Full Sail used to brew an ENORMOUS Fest beer. I mean really, steroids. Big and chewy, but so unlike the subtler versions as to be nearly out of style. Recognizable and wonderful, but silly strong.

We'll never catch the politics thread in number of posts, but the quality of life is much better here. Anybody drink any good or new beers with the onset of football season?

I did not know there was a Hofbrauhaus in Cincy. New reasons to travel to Ohio! I was very interested when Bigwill alerted me to the existence of the one in Vegas (which I've also not seen, yet). Is the one in Cincinnati also an authentic reproduction of the hall in Munich?

I've been to the one in Munich. Neener neener.

Fat Tire is the cash-cow of New Belgium Brewing in Fort Collins, CO. They make great beers. Fat Tire is reliable and can be quite good if you get it fresh. I've found that it is better on draught, and is a welcome site in places where it might be the only beer with character in bars that serve multiple variants of Budmilloors. I like the stronger styles they brew better, but Fat Tire is a pretty nice amber beer, with a depth of flavor (from the yeast) uncommon in mass-market American beer.

If I come to Pittsburgh, can I eat all the yummy food and stuff without having to drink Iron City?

Tom: I think the one in Cincy isn't a reproduction but its run by the folks in Munich. Actually, I think its in Kentucky but right across the river is Cincy. Many times I've pondered a road trip there.

I've been to the Hofbrauhaus in Munich also. Did you check out Augustiner Keller also? Ohhhhh, there's nothing like an evening at the bier garden.

My lady is from Cologne so, by birthright, she is forbidden to appreciate the Bavarian or Helles style lagers over the Rhineland beers. Its Kolsch all the way for her.

Yeah, if you find yourself in the Burgh, I definitely recommend that you shun Iron City for the Penn Brewery or the Sharp Edge Beer Emporium (fine Belgians, etc.). Sometimes I think Iron City goes down as smooth as broken glass.

Costco in my area has the Spaten Oktoberfest at $20/case - not bad. I like the Paulaner a little better, but wtf it's Costco. I would love to try HB Oktoberfest - never even seen it. Celebrator is tremendous and expensive.
IF ANYONE EVER HAS THE CHANCE TO BUY SOME KULMBACHER REICHELBRAU (the pale one) PLEASE, PLEASE GRAB ME AS MUCH AS YOU CAN CARRY!!! I had semi-erotic dreams about that beer for a long time - it goes great with mushrooms (mushroom appetizers, of course ).

screw that sissy german beer......I'm working on a keg of Arrogant Bastard ale right now. Oh wait, I need another pint......One of the benefits of being a bachlor with a kegerator......

Costco has kegerators for about $300. Kegs of many tasty micro brews are about $120. There's just something special about a fresh draft first thing in the morning after a hard night of partying.

Oh, time for another.....later.

Ok guys, since this weekend is Octoberfest I figure I might as well celibrate, but I haven't really ever explored many German beers. I'm too stuck on Belgians at the moment. Anyway, I have had Spaten Optimator, and Beck's dark before and I enjoy them both. However, I turn to you guys for some German suggestions. Preferably no Lagers or Pilsners though. Thanks in advance.

Nice....Arrogant Bastard always gets 2 thumbs up from me. As long as I can distinguish up from down anyway.

I'm highly partial to their pale myself.

I'd suggest that you check your local brewpub for keg prices - you'll likely find a good deal on something. I believe my local brewpub has kegs in the $80 range. The beers can be hit or miss, so it may be wise to sample a few before purchasing.
My buddy recently acquired a kegerator from costco - it's about the only thing he wants to talk about any more (not counting T&A, poker, and trips to the river).

Ok so this thread was almost off page two...needed a bump.

I made a beer for my mother this past weekend, hopefully it'll turn out well and she'll like it. (She's not a beer drinker at all.) I took a risk and decided to make a vanilla milk porter. (Essentially a milk stout with no roasted barley.) I figure, if nothing else it will be unlike any beer she's ever tasted. The desired result is a healthy dose of vanilla underlying a moderately sweet, creamy porter. Something to drink cold with a slice of apple pie at christmas time. She recently got elected as a district justice in my hometown, so the beer is being dubbed "JudgeMental".

when i was at the grocery store on tuesday, i noticed they have beefed up their beer section, and enlarged it to include lots of import and microbrew beers. so, i grabbed a six pack, and told my wife i was gonna try a different one each week. i grabbed a sixer of St Pauli's Girl. i know, i know, its kind of common, but i have never had one, and i liked the picture of the girl on the bottle

BTW- i never noticed til tuesday, but the HUGE display of beer at the store is almost like art.. it was a 7ft high, 30ft long mural of colors and textures, and designs. i found it somewhat mesmurizing to look at.

i think next week i will try an italian beer that looked interesting. i have an idea, maybe i need to make a list of hopefuls and post here for ya'll to advise me on. it will at least keep the thread alive on a weekly basis. ?

bigjohn

I had made a similar "art" observation once regarding beer displays. There's this place called Springfield Beer Distributor in Philadelphia that I used to frequent all the time. It's basically a huge warehouse with pallets of beer. They're arranged in isles and grouped by brewery, and each pallet has a different type of beer. The first time I went in there, I felt like I had entered a beer museum or something. It is a wonderful thing, and I haven't been able to find any store remotely close in size up in Boston.

Thanks for the bump, Andrew. And especially for the update on your brewing art. I brew vicariously through you and others now, as I lack the time. So keep those updates coming.

Sounds like you are really out on a limb with the JudgeMental (great name, btw!). I'll look forward to hearing more about it. All-grain or extract? Congratulations to your Mom; that is extraordinary!

I've been saving the six-pack holders from beer for years. I figure someday I'll cut them appropriately and make a collage of some kind in the garage. The art can be wonderful. Much more whimsy in beer than in wine.

ObTastingNote: I had a Three Philosophers belgian from Brewery Ommegang in Cooperstown, NY the other day. They make a beer I really like (Hennepin - a Belgian farmhouse-style ale). The Three Philosophers was billed as quadruple-fermented blend of their Belgian ale with Lindeman's Kriek. Well, it was rich and effervescent, but it did not express the lambic or the fruit with any kind of eloquence. Disappointing.

bigjohn, I like that ST Pauli's better than Becks. Expresses more of the German malt character that I love. I just picked up a little 5L mini keg of Kulmbacher Pils (no Reichelbrau! ) for this Saturday's games. I'm looking forward to it.

ringmir, that beer is out there, man! Making a good clean simple beer not challenging enough for you?

Tom, got any thoughts on the best methods for dry hopping/aroma hopping? I've tried Hallertau plugs in the secondaries, flash boiled pellets of many varieties in the secondaries (couldn't get up enough nerve to just dump them in there), and HEALTHY quantities of aromatic pellets at the end of the boil. Just never seemed to be able to get the nose I wanted.

ringmir, how do you feel about shipping north?

LOVE that Kulmbacher! Love the 5L kegs! Fun.

Mark, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not exactly in brewing trim right now; you know I really gave up after my kids started to be interesting. However, I'd offer the following.

I share your concern about sanitation and hop additions in the fermenter. My most successful dry hopping did not involve bottles; I have several corny kegs and only rarely bottled. There is obviously much less chance of anything funky happening if your beer stays refrigerated and is force-carbonated. Bag o' plugs in the keg.

As to variety, I know you don't like the cascade/chinook/columbus varieties because of the citrus flavor, but maybe if you use them just as a dry or finishing hop, you would get the aroma punch you want without the grapefruit you don't. I've never been big on noble hops in homebrew; I always liked to make big-bad ales, and felt I needed either the American C hops or Fuggle derivatives to get what I wanted. YMMV.

bigwill- i drank 2 of the st paulis girl last night while watching survivor, and liked them very much. there was definitely a 'hearty' touch to it, but it was not at all over-bearing. i was talking to one of my friends, and he said to try it at 'room temp'.. ? ah, no.. i like beer cold.. not real sure why he would even suggest that?

i think next time at the store, i will write down a few of the ones i am interested in, and post on here for suggestions. i really think i will like about 90% of the beers i try, but i would prefer some back-up from ya'll. every once and a while, i get one that is down right bad, and then i get angry for paying $7-$8 bucks for the six pack of beer that i will have to force myself to drink. perfect example, samuel adams.. WAY too hearty and bitter for me.. didnt like that beer at all!!!

i trust in ya'lls beer experience, and hope you can lead me in the right direction. after years of lone-star and shiner blonde, i figure its time to branch out a little.

bigjohn

John, on the room temp beer question: A lot of the potential flavors in a beer are significantly subdued when you drink it very cold. So far as I am aware in general, the colder your food, the less you can taste it. Obviously there are some beers that don't have much taste to begin with, but others will taste different at room temperature than they do cold. Most people wouldn't recommend drinking any beer at room temperature except very rich brews like stouts and barley wines.

In reply to:

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So far as I am aware in general, the colder your food, the less you can taste it.

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This is most likely due to the nature of liquids and vapours. Considering that the taste buds can only distinguish 4 basic flavours (sweet, sour, bitter and salty) the majority of our ability to "taste" comes from the nose. Aromas from a cold beer would be more subdued as the vapours released under such temperatures would be less than if it were warmer.
Secondly a truly cold beer may also numb the taste buds ni the mouth thereby dulling the detection of the 4 basic flavours. A brutally bitter beer should be less bitter embibed bitterly cold.

Anyone here a food scientist?

I believe I have read that the taste buds are desensitized to "sweet" at colder temps. The reason why ice cream doesn't seem overly sweet. When that is applied to beer making, the brewer must make his beer to be consumed at a specific temperature in order to balance the malt sweetness and the hop bitterness.
bigjohn, in Europe they frequently drink ales at cellar temps from what I've heard, but I doubt anybody drinks lagers at summer time Texas temps!

Has anyone heard of the German practice of serving certain styles of beer with a warm water bath? My German teacher in high school said that some pubs (is that what you call them in Germany) would give you a bowl of warm water to set your mug into to keep the beer warm.

At the time, I didn't know any better, but now it sounds pretty revolting. Room temp is one thing, but warm??

Well, we could go to Speisekammer and find out! They seem pretty traditional... the waiter looked at me funny when I didn't order beer...

Mmmmm. Now that my cholesterol is back down to a healthy level (woo hoo!), I'm anxious to check that place out.

We just went with my parents last weekend. Jen had some hefeweizen samplers, and they were pretty tasty. (had to keep it vaguely on topic!)

I love their sauerkraut.

In reply to:

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the waiter looked at me funny when I didn't order beer

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you get the same thing around here when you try and order pepsi.. oh wait, we already had this discussion...

bigjohn

Just picked up three great beers on my way home... Bear Republic's Hop Rod Rye, Stone Brewing's Stone Ruination, and Dogfish Head's 90 minute IPA

Gonna be some good drinkin' this weekend.

Oh stop it! I've got a 6.5 hour drive ahead of me yet today. No time for beer when I get home!

Where the *%&! are you?

Berkeley, but somtime early tomorrow morning I'll be in LA.

I've been wanting to try that Ruination Ale. Tom seems pretty high on the Dogfish Head as well. I'd be very curious to know what you think of them.
I called in sick today and cracked open my mini keg of Kulmbacher Pils. Pretty good. Very herbal, fine bitterness, fine carbonation (can't stand beers with big bubbles), nice malt body, but not quite as huge and toothy as my dream beer - Kulmbacher Reichelbrau.
Speaking of "want", anybody watch "Survivor"? I'm bummed they voted out Dolly - she was absolutely smokin'.

People still watch Survivor, that carefully-orchestrated, over-produced monstrosity specifically designed to shut off the cognitive portions of your brain?!?!

Yeah, I know. Don't know why I watch it. The only other stuff I watch is CSI, the news and college football. A guy can be excused for one weakness, eh?

everyone I know who watches Survivor says the same thing.

What do you think about CSI:Miami? I'm not sure why I watch that one...

Didn't you meant to say:

"What do you think about [removes sunglasses] CSI:Miami? [puts sunglasses back on]"

Damn! You're [removes glasses,pauses] right, Alex! [puts glasses back on]

Alex: Poor honey, let me just pat your head some more, you poor, poor dead person, dead before your time, now I'm going to cry [hugs dead body]

Alright then.....back on topic:
(You can take that survivor stuff to some less important thread!)

I've got a 90 minute IPA poured for myself here, and my thoughts are as follows...

A nice golden amber, slighty off-white head, fine carbonation, a decent amount of lacing in the glass. The nose is definately cascade hops(I suspect dry hopped with it, the bottle says it's dry hopped but doesn't list which hops), but less so than something like Victory hop devil. The flavor is pretty tough to describe, there's a lot going on in this beer. First, for something that clocks in at 9% ABV, this beer doesn't pack the alcohol whallop one would expect. Don't get me wrong, the alcohol is certainly there, but it's buried underneath so much hops, toasted and crystal malt that you don't really notice it. For me, the first sip is an explosion of hops, piney and citrusy. That fades to a kind of thick sweetness, balanced out by a tremdous amount of bittering hops and a distict malt undertone. Halfway through a bottle, the alcohol content begins to make itself known by a very faint warming of the throat and chest as it goes down. The aftertaste is reminicent of grapefruit, and lingers seemingly forever. I have a feeling I'll be tasting this beer untill I brush my teeth and go to bed tonight.

ringmir, that description sounds EXACTLY like the first time i drank cough syrup when i was a kind.


Just kiddin.

That was a good description, ringmir, thanks. I'll bet you can still taste that beer today, eh?
That IPA reminds me of many I've had. Tastes like spruce. Not my cup of tea.
Slightly off topic, I had another bottle of the $2 Charles Shaw Shiraz that won some gold medals at an int'l tasting event. Smells like a lumber yard - must have been aged in some very fresh barrels.
Tried CSI Miami, couldn't get into it.

OK, i DO watch survivor also.. dolly was a cutie, and she raised sheep for a living.. good country girl.

i dont watch ANY of the autopsy shows.. i think there are about 5-6 combined on the different channels.

st paulis girl is now my supersticious favorite. i won good money playing poker while i was drinking it saturday night.

i would sure like to try a 9% alcohol beer!!! i think the highest i have ever had was 7%.

bigjohn

Duvel is a good beer at 9% abv. Smooth as could be - maybe the reason for its name?

Love playing poker too. What do you guys play?

In reply to:

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What do you guys play?

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it depends on what mood we are in..

the majority of the time(75%), we play standard no limit hold'em.. it cracks me up that this particular game has gotten sooooo big here in the last 2 years, and i have been playin it since i was a kid(literally). when i was in elementary, we used to play it with M&M's.. my dad was a big card player, so i grew playin poker, gin, spades, hearts, rummy, and then learned uecker once i got into the army. i cant remember a family gathering when we didnt have some sort of card game going.. anyway, got off track..

we usually play no limit hold'em, but often just do dealer choice. 5 draw, 7 stud, mexican sweat, omaha, etc.. and my buddies like to roll dice, but i aint into that..

we just have fun, and keep the money at minimums.. but, saturday, we had 7 guys show up to play, and it was payday, so they wanted $20 dollar buy in, winner take all.. i got some good cards, and 4 hours later, i was victorious.. i ended up buying more beer and pizza for everyone, and then watched the rest of them roll dice the rest of the night. they were mad cause i wouldnt roll with them and let them get their money back.. boo-hoo..!! they know i dont roll the bones!

bigjohn

It's euchre where my family comes from (Indiana). I'm curious if you learned different rules... Peter has this rule where you can steal the deck (!) and he'd never heard most of the myths and hints (sit with the bathtub, etc.).

I've always liked 7 card stud, but the hold 'em tournaments on TV have got me hooked.
Different game when you're playing $2-4 hold 'em than the no limit game, I discovered. Gotta play a lot more hands and call more bets. And slow-play. And crank those free beers as fast as you can.

steal the deal, Ken, not the deck.

ok so, poker is a much more reasonable thread-jacking for this thread than "Survivor". Personally I'll play some poor-man's hold 'em every once in a while ($0.25 $0.50 blinds, low limit). This way if I'm the big loser for the night I can still chalk it up to "cost of entertainment" and not feel like I'm walking away pants-less. But I'm really not much for gambling in general.

Could you guys at least give a passing mention to the kind of beer you usually drink when gambling? Sheesh. And last time I checked, watching reality TV was not the sort of activity with which one typically associates consumption of delicious beverages. So yeah, smoking, drinking and gambling go together.

I recently had a Porter from St. Peter's Brewery in the UK. It was really fabulous - much more robust and hoppy than most traditional English beers. It was in great condition, too.

On those rare occasions that I play hold'em, I generally drink Knob Creek Bourbon. Sometimes I smoke a cigar. I tend to prefer a maduro, generally from among Padron, Ashton, Avo, Hoyo de Monterrey, Macanudo, or CAO.

Going to be bottling a brown ale tonight and transfering the JudgeMental (vanilla milk porter) to secondary and adding the vanilla to let it sit another few weeks. I'll siphon off a sample and let you guys know how it tastes.

In reply to:

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I generally drink Knob Creek Bourbon.

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On the off chance it didn't occur to you - if someone calls and asks what you're doing, I wouldn't mention you had a hand full of queens and were sucking on a Knob.

Bren R.

Oh now that's just damn funny.

Hmm... maybe I shoud switch to Woodford?

Y'know, I think bigjohn was asking for advice in expanding his beer horizons, but was shamefully ignored.
How about Boddingtons, Newcastle, and Old Speckled Hen?

bigwill- actually, i am going to the grocery store this afternoon, and will have a short list of beers that i am thinking about trying. i will put the list on here, and see what ya'll think. maybe do a poll if i can figure out how to do one?

i think i will get some italian beer that i saw last time i went shopping. they make great food and great wine, chances are the beer should be pretty good too!!?

BTW- i will check and see if they have any of the ones you have listed.

bigjohn

John, you've gotta compile a short list of beers that you drink regularly and enjoy, that way we'll have a starting point to make suggestions.

a short list.... OK.. well, i have to admit, i am kind-of-a simple guy, so i usually drink the regular american favorites.. but, i will add in all the ones i have liked.

regulars- bud light, lone star, shinerbock, shiner blonde, original coors(yella-belly), and as of late, MGD.

mexicans- dos equis, sampatico, tecate..

others- molson, arctic bay, ice house, killians, becks.

a few beers that i have had that i REALLY didnt care for are samuel adams, guiness, and an extra pale ale from northern california.

OK, there ya go. suggest away!!!

bigjohn

BigJohn,

You'd hate my beer of choice Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.

Being a Cubs/Bears fan I'm obligated to recommend Old Style it's pretty much like Red Star but if my memory is correct Old Style gives more umm gasious emmissions with a shorter delay time

We might not win but we'll sure stink up the house!

Leaf

Lets see, not sure what you can get over there, but I would try maybe:

Stoudt's Gold Lager
Brooklyn Brown Ale
(And if you want something 9%, but expect a lot of flavors with this one)
Chimay Grande Reserve (Blue label)

In reply to:

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Old Style gives more umm gasious emmissions

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HEY.... football, beer, and farts.. what could be better??

i have seen old style, so i might give it a whirl..

ringmir- i have written those down on my grocery list, and if they have one, it will try it.

thanks for the suggestions ya'll.. i will let ya know what i get tomorrow.

bigjohn

Red Stripe from Jamaica is a good beer. Not something that Tom or ringmir will get all excited about, but I think you'd like that one, bigjohn.

Hey now, red stripe is good stuff! Just because I lean towards hoppier and more full bodied brews doen't mean I can't enjoy a good crisp lager on a hot day

Yes, Andrew, but are you "all excited" about it?

Red Stripe is good lawnmower beer. Personally, I think the problem with it is the water. But I am speculating irresponsibly.

Bigjohn, I like bigwill's recommendation about Boddington's. You might also rediscover Heineken; buy it in cans, not bottles. Really. Finally, you might like some of the (now disappearing) summer beers made by various breweries. If you see any Kolsch or Cream Ales, those would be good next candidates, too.

Winter beers are released! I had a Deschutes Jubel Ale the other night. Rich, alcoholic and aggressively hopped, as always. Anybody seen Sierra Celebration yet?

What's wrong with the water, Tom? Not enough mineral content? That helps make it so light, sweet and clean.

i actually had a red stripe the other night at the bar.. i was 'paying off' a buddy of mine who won a football bet, and he is a bartender.. i told him the least he could do was buy me a beer after i delivered his winnings.. he asked what i wanted, and i said "dealer choice".. so, he gave me a red stripe. he also gave me a mexican beer that i had never had before.. it had the same similar taste of a corona.. kinda bland.. but i liked the red stripe.. it was light, and smooth.. if that is considered a lager, then i would say that is the kind of beer i prefer.. i cant stand the heavy, samuel adams type beers.

bigjohn

Mark, I was certainly too glib. I'm not sure there is anything "wrong" with Jamaican water per se, and I certainly don't have time to do an in-depth study of the typical mineral content of the water used in Red Stripe beer.

However, you know that there are any number of minerals that could be present in brewing liquor that could impact a number of the processes, from starch conversion to hop utilization. As to which ones appear (in a perhaps disproportionate amount) and how they might impact the ultimate flavor of Red Stripe in particular, I must confess that I am speculating wildly.

I suppose the bottom line is that I've never gotten as excited about that particular beer as some other people have, and I have also not been able to put my finger on "why" that is. Since I can't isolate why I don't find the hops, malt or yeast compelling, I'm blaming the water.

Jamaica has a huge bauxite industry, and I understand that, on any given island, the water supply can be inordinately saline compared to more traditional supplies of larger scale. So yeah, it could be the minerals. Get some scientist in here.

I am often reminded that some brewers are cooks, some are engineers, some are chemists, but we're all janitors. I'm a cook; I like the ingredients best. Some people like to build systems that move liquid around; they are engineers. Some people really know what's happening in the pot and fermenter.

I mean, it's a competent beer and I understand people liking it. I just don't think it's very interesting or distinctive. With cost and calories as criteria, I drink elsewhere. You know, Budweiser is "light, sweet and clean".

Certainly Red Stripe is an unremarkable beer from a connoiseur's standpoint, but it tastes like a quality 2 row lager with very, very subtle hop and yeast presence and a nice malt sweetness. Not as spicy or thin as Bud, eh?
It's not my all-time fave but I thought bigjohn might like it - and he does!
bigjohn, German hefe-weizens (and some American hefe-weizens, but NOT PYRAMID) you will likely also like. Maybe Tom knows of a nice dunkel, too? I can never remember the brand names by the time I'm done with them.

Stop trying to make me do double blind tests of beer I don't like.

I don't really see dunkel-wiezens or dunkel lagers very much. Beck's and St. Pauli both make a dunkel, don't they?

How about those Asian beers like Kirin, Tsingtao, etc.?

A nice, light real German lager like Hacker-Pschorr or Spaten?

I like the suggestion of Newcastle Brown. Also, Downtown Brown from Lost Coast Brewery in the, ahem, Humboldt Nation, is wonderful.

So, bigjohn, go drink something already!