So, we're at the point where wedging 3 littles in the backseat of a Volvo wagon is becoming less than pleasant, particularly for long trips. So we're looking at a (used) minivan, since we both hate SUVs, and minivans really seem more utilitarian. My preference is for Siennas and Odysseys, 2006 or newer.
One wrinkle is that the Sienna is available with AWD, which seems to add a premium of at least $5K, if not more. Since we might be moving to snowy-land, that's a consideration--or should it not be?
Anyone have any direct experience with these or strong opinions in any which way (other than "minivans suck")? It's not as sexy as Tom's Mercedes, but maybe when my kids are a lot older...
We rented a Chrysler Town and Country a few weeks ago, and my wife liked it well enough. I found it to be overly tall and it was somewhat lacking in the handling department. That's probably par for the course, but it really felt like an older Ford Taurus to me. I despise Tauruses.
Are "crossovers" off the table?
I need 7 passengers and relatively large cargo capacity.
Ken, we still have a minivan (a 99 Ford Windstar). It is incredibly, annoyingly, practical. For utility-driven satisfaction, you simply cannot beat it.
Personally, I think they are MUCH better where it counts than a crossover or SUV. Do not overlook the absolute bliss of a sliding door in a parking lot. You and everyone else can simply get in and out much more easily than with a conventional swinging door.
Sure, we often make the foghorn sound when navigating the SS Tuttle Ferryboat, but that thing has taken us all over the western US in comfort.
If I were going to buy a minivan, I would not consider anything except the Honda and Toyota. I have a colleague with a brand-new Chrysler Town and Country, and it is luxurious but buggy. I don't trust Dodge.
I don't know how those newer, nicer models are configured. I found that having separate climate zones for the front and rear made a big difference for us. It might be standard nowadays.
I'm probably useless on the AWD question. I know that's too big a premium for where I live.
It's okay. Really. It's the right thing to do. You're living the American Dream.
I heard today that gas is going up to $6 a gallon. That should do a good job of squashing the American dream.
We've been driving a '05 Toyota Sienna since our twin boys were babies. We've had no serious problems (actually no repairs except batteries and tires). Consistently get 26+ mpg on the road. It's a great kid hauler-not too comfortable for adults in the back 5 seats. With good snow tires it handles snow and ice ridiculously well. Nothing too exciting about the vehicle-just has been real solid for us.
Tom, you must have lucked out with your Windstar. Anyone I've known with one had trans failures, intake manifold failures, electrical problems and/or serious rust problems amongst others. My friend told me his wasn't very economical to boot although they may or may not be partly due to driving style. If I'm looking at a 7 seater, I'd start with one of the Lambda platform SUV's from GM, which are roomy, and pretty much as economical in the real world as most comparable minivans, but that's just me.
I used to have a Chrysler mini-van. It had trans problems. I think that they put a car transmission in these things. Their heaver than a car so the trans don't last as long. I don't know if that's true across the board, but that's the problem I've had.
We used to have a Honda Odyssey, my wife loved it until we found out for that particular year they had transmission problems, although ours never had a problem we decided we didn't need a van as well as a Suburban, so it got traded in. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Odyssey, and if we ever get rid of the Suburban I would get another Honda minivan. Also with their front wheel drive I found it easier to drive it in snow than my Suburban in 4wd.
I would suggest staying away from the Chrysler minivans unless you are going to lease it and give it back when the warranty is up. I haven't seen much difference between any of the current minivans from Nissan, Toyota or Honda, all of them are pretty well designed and have few problems. The AWD option would be a personal choice as most FWD vehicles are very good in snow.
We're on our second Odyssey. Bought a '99 (just off lease) in 2003, with around 60,000 miles. Drove it 7 years, and put a total of 187,000 miles on it. Replaced it with an '08 last year, with only 16,000 miles. Love them both. Couldn't imagine not having one with 3 kids. Inevitably, we will have one or two of the kids friends tagging along, or a set of parents.
Drive both the Honda and the Toyota. The Sienna will be quieter and smoother on the road, but the Odyssey will handle better. If you decide on the Honda, be sure it is an '05 or newer. That year they installed the transmission out of the Ridgeline. Lots of transmission problems prior to that.
As a side note, both ours are/were the base "stripper" versions. As much as I would love to have all the toys, we keep them forever, and there is way less to go wrong with base models.
(Sorry for the grammar, but it's midnight, and I'm tired)
As others said, I'd stay away from the Windstar, I bought one used and had nothing but problems for 4 years before the transmission finally busted.
I just got a 2010 Dodge Caravan a few month ago and even though I don't know what the future will be, I like all the different compartments to put stuff, I love the easy folding seats and the ESP that comes even with the most basic model has proven itself useful this canadian winter. Others might have had problems with Chrysler, me I had (and still having) a good experience with it. In 2003 I bought a 1999 Cirrus with 118km and, except maintenance, I didn't really have any problems with it. In 2006, the transmission line broke due to rust, when I took it to the mechanic, he told me that I was lucky the transmission didn't brake. Even though it didn't, it has never been the same and it's getting worst every year. Now, 5 years later, the transmission still didn't brake but when it is cold in the morning, the gears keep on slipping during the first 5 min. The card has now 330Km and even though I am not repairing it anymore and I am just waiting for it to die, I refuse to throw it out while it is still drivable
Even if it doesn't mean anything, that's one of the reasons I went with the Dodge Caravan, the other one being that it is cheaper than their japanese counterpart.
I think overall that it is a good value and am happy with it but if I would have had more money to spend on a minivan (not that I would want to
) I would get the Odyssey, it looks good (for a minivan) and just feels more upper class when driving it compare to the Dodge.
My Dodge cost $8k for repairs in it's last 3 years. Two trannies!
Toyotas have had roll-over issues in models from a few years ago.
On my 3rd Odyssey lease. Don't want a van, but as long as I have to have one, it'll be a Honda.
Besides Mark and I both drive 'em and are happy. How much more definitive can you get?
So what I'm hearing is AWD ain't worth it. I can live with that. Sounds like Odyssey is the way to go, but my wife has the ultimate say here.
She also says that I dislike SUVs more than her, so any recs on 5-0 years old, 7 passenger ones with decent mileage that would go for less than $20K used?
Volvo XC90. Here in southern ontario there are lots of 2006-2007's in the low $20's.
Ken, I have to echo a lot of what Shawn wrote. Also preferred the '08 Odyssey on the road over the Sienna, as the Sienna felt a little boat-like. There's road noise on the Honda, but it's a trade off I took. Also ditto what Shawn said about transmissions.
Though there's no a lot of respect, Motor Trend's TV show did a van shootout last week and the Honda won. It's a redesign from the years that you're looking at, but if you decide to buy new for some reason, it might be worth looking up. The Toyota was not in the top four out of the six tested.
I don't mean to sound arrogant in saying this, but don't necessarily rule out new if a great bargain can be made. We bought our 32+K Odyssey for 23+K because the economy was down, gas prices were up (big vehicles weren't moving at all) and it was a 2008 when the 2009 had just come onto the lots. We got a moonroof, leather, etc...for $2000 more than the Chrysler dealer wanted for USED Town and Country vans that were 2 years old and with less features.
The only thing I don't like is that our previous '97 Plymouth had an absolute flat floor, whereas the Odyssey's is bumbly with seat latchpoints and uneven besides. Not an issue with seats in it, but I carry cargo and nothing slides in easy, though it'll take a sheet of plywood on the floor and some like the Hyundai and Toyota wouldn't.
Finally, wait just long enough to find out if the plave you're going to live might warrant AWD. Probably not, but you'd hate to buy a van and THEN wish you chose something different.
Consumer Reports April auto issue should be on the stands, and you can check reliability for different models at different years.
AWD is nice but.... Costs more, a little more maintenance, changes buying tires a little, poor fuel economy. But I like it.
I really had no idea Ken was considering living in a plave.
That changes everything.
I say find a nice retro volkswagen van from the 70's.
I say find a nice retro volkswagen van from the 70's.
Put a mailbox in front of it, shoot out the tires, and voila!, you're home.
Don't forget to paint some flowers on it.
Wow, got to page 3. Pretty good, for us!
I have owned a Dodge Grand Caravan and I currently own a Kia Sedona. I would get a Honda Odyssey if money is not an object. I got the Kia used at a great price and it is better than the Dodge, but that is not exactly high praise.
If Kia is under Hyundai's wing, they should keep getting better. I saw the new Optima, built on the Sonata platform no doubt, very attractive car, looks very Euro-upscale.
I think that minivans generally get better gas mileage than 7 passenger SUV's. The XC90 is rated at 16/22 compared to 19/28 for the Odyssey.
Tom, look up a 2wd Acadia on your US fuel chart for comparison. The Canadian fuel guide has it almost the same as the Odyssey.
Ah! I did not know that an Acadia had a third row of seats. My mistake - sorry.
No need to apologize ole boy!
Also the other GM siblings, the Traverse and the Enclave should get the same kind of mileage being they have the same platform. Also, believe it or not, you can get a RAV4 with 3rd row seating.
Yeah, Peter has one of those. We'll have a look at them. But my general take away from this thread is: Odyssey, don't worry about AWD.
The XC90s in California are not nearly so inexpensive as in Ottawa, unfortunately.
I have long had a soft spot in my heart for Highlanders, but that's probably because I've seen a hydrogen powered one, and hydrogen powered cars are cool.
Ken, i just thought of it today....what about the Ford Flex?
You know, I kind of like how those look. Sure, it's a jumbo station wagon, but it's got a certain authenticity that SUV's and crossovers lack.
Still, when I'm moving carseats around, I want those big openings afforded by sliding doors.
I've always thought the Lesbaru Outback was cool, but it won't seat 7.
I think the Ford's hideous, and I honestly don't have a lot of trust in American auto manufacturers.
A '59 Caddie could probably hold at least 7 people....maybe more in the trunk if your name's Vito.
Doesn't hold carseats so well...
It appears that Ken finally decided to
sell his VolvoCongrats and good luck!
Now let's go and get some wimmin.
Never gets old.
For those not in on the joke, I will just say that
Bill Cosby Is a Very Funny Fellow - Right!Especially at 2:52.
In minivan news, I have a friend who is being stationed overseas, and he is looking to sell his 2006 Odyssey. I haven't seen it yet, but he says it's got about 120,000 miles, and I know he's maintained it well. He originally asked $8000 but says now he'll part with it for $7000.
Gail has been looking at minivans for some time to replace her 2002 CR-V. She'd be the daily driver. She is very interested.
Looks like models of this year and mileage sell for $10,000 - $15,000 in this area. I imagine his asking price is closer to the wholesale trade in value, from the little research I've done.
Any thoughts?
That's a lot of miles, but sounds like a pretty good deal.
I know. I don't want to have to replace every part in it over the next few years.
So, you think "what you want" is somehow relevant? Cute.
Hey! I wear the pants in my fami -- oh yeah, Gail wears pants too. Harrumph.
Awww Maaan! I hate it when you get to the punch line and all you see is 'Image Blocked'.
Regarding the 2006 Odyssey, (or any Odyssey in general) there are 2 things to scrutinize:
1) Find out how many times the tranny fluid needed to be changed in the 120,000 miles, and make sure each one was done on time.
2) If they towed ANYTHING with it, RUN.
I can't stress this enough - you will have problems if you don't.
Look Here I have personally experienced this twice with V6 Honda vehicles.
As a side note, Honda started to use the heavier duty transmission out of the Ridgeline truck in the Odyssey around 2008. Still not perfect, but they do seem to be better. Just sayin'
Thanks, Shawn. I'll check out the transmission info. Just last nght my wife said, "Oh yeah, and it's got a towing hitch!"
That way, she can pull your doghouse behind her if you don't buy her what she wants!
