I just can't help but to post this here as I'm so pissed reading people trash Axiom @ avs, blu-ray forum, and audioholics.

It's everything I can do not to post replies there telling these idiots to shut the F up! But I know I would just be feeding the trolls. Good god I need therapy! I mean I read all audio forums because I enjoy it so much, loving the information and gathering more knowledge.
But Christ! Now I can't even come home from a long day at work and relax reading forums without coming across this BS.

Even JC, Ian and Allen have tried to intervene to no avail...

Thanks for advising us. I've been watching it too but I didn't have the kahoonas to bring it up again.

It is some of the same nasty characters that we have dealt with here. While they have been largely run off from here, they keep showing up elsewhere with their vile & poisonous trolling, even in forums that are not Axiom related. I hate to say it, but this cannot be good for Axiom as it is so negative & never ending.

Honestly, I don't know why anyone in their right mine would act that way & continue on, on & on with their diatribes. There seems to be some mental & personality deficiencies with that group of posters.

Personally, I would like to see the blu-ray.com Axiom thread closed & deleted. It just serves no purpose anymore since that bunch recently arrived. They have completely poisoned a once good forum...

TAM

The blu-ray mods are cracking the whip as I type right now, they have already deleted a bunch of posts. It looks like the whole thread may go, time will tell...

You do have to wonder how this affects the companies bottom line. Personally I think the few that bash just have some sort of personal vendetta against Axiom and this is some sort of payback in their own feeble mind.

Seems there are more speaker designers on these forums than carter has pills. At least they think so but none of them have put their own product to market. Bullshit as I see it, just bullshit.

If it's not comb filtering they argue about it would be something else about Axiom that gets their panties in a twist.

The Axiom forum is really the only audio forum i actively participate in.. I may search the others for something specific... I have glanced at the Axiom bashing threads.... My impression is that they are a bunch of Ignorant fucks... please pardon my language... I don't think i would classify myself as an Axiom fan boy... I am happy with the products that i have bought from them, and continue to buy more..... What other company can you email the owner of the company and get an answer pretty quick? I'm sure that all those who don't like axiom have the owner of their speakers home phone number right? The other day i was nearly chatting with Ian over e-mail, we both were at the computer and checking e-mail at the same time.... I had a question about a special request for my LFR's. Without going into details, Ian was more than willing and quite helpful with my special request..

I own other brands of speakers as well, and am quite sure that i would never get this level of service from other brands.. If they did offer this level, it would be at a VERY steep price........

And we have a winner. Both Pure-Evil (better know as Jinx in these here parts) and gtpsuper24 joined this forum, unwisely misbehaved, and had their lunch handed to them by the forum members. They lost their temper and, since then, have remained so full of hate that both have been on an Anti-Axiom campaign all over the internet. They are, indeed, previous Axiom owners, and, as such, have the right to post their dissatisfaction with Axiom products. But they pass themselves off as unbiased, and that is not the case. They should make their bias known.

Does anyone anymore? Ever? Anywhere? For anything? Publicly?

'Tis too bad. The first time I ever used the web to research a purchase, maniacally, was for all my a/v gear. As soon as searches brought me to forums and threads, I checked out immediately. Reading posts by people (I don't know and could give 2 shitbits about) argue over something I'm really insterested in doesn't provide the kind of info I've ever been looking for. I'd like to think that any reader who was paying attention could instantly see anger and venom, and therefore, discount any opinions that are that extreme and personal-agenda laden. Ha! Who'm I kidding?

OK, which one wins the naive-comment-of-the-day award.

Combfiltering exist but.
People complain about it and buy home cinema array of speackers from 5.1/2 to 7.1/2.
Check at the speackers config from most people that post messages on forums who complain about it.

Monophonic and monophonic /large band is the way to go if you must avoid at all cost combfiltering.
Everyone go get some
Mono is the way to listen music.


To avoid combfiltering less mic for recording is a must.
I think we should all go back for Mono source.


that's pretty strange.
I'm still fine with 2.0 setup and i do like to watch movies in cinemas...


something is wrong.

I was a part of the mess over at Blu-Ray.com So was JC. I tried to get onto the good sides of the bashers, and even tried to calm things down, just to have it continue on and on... Heck, several people gave one of my long posts a "+1" and even stated that it was the most refreshing post in the thread. But it went in the toilet again. My last post was that I was unsubscribing to the thread since it had gotten worse than the product posturing over at AVS. I haven't gone back.

This is definitely my most frequented forum for any and all of my hobbies. A/V related, I still go over to AVS but it is mainly to check in on theater build thread, or the owners threads for my new projector or receiver, oh and a few demo disc threads. I stay away from anything speaker related because I just couldn't give a flying fart about those "discussions". I'm super happy with my Axioms, I really don't care about anything else. It isn't like I want to spend the time and money to "move up" to whatever the next level is.

So I say, "Piss off" to those people that totally trash this hobby with their crap-ass agendas and their rhetoric about something sucking when it doesn't. Those jack (long pause since I don't normally get this angry here, but I'll post it) asses can take a flying leap off of whatever their nearest tall structure, and I wouldn't care... Ok, I'm not saying that anyone should go kill themselves, but you get the point.

I agree Nick, especially about the troll!

This is why the only two forums I frequent are here and a gunsmithing one.

Bren R.

That's a great pic Bren! This forum here is pretty much my 1st and only forum I frequent (I won't count 5 post dabbling elsewhere). My real life is what counts, not posting on a forum. I have remained here however since the majority on this forum are rationale people even if they have different points of view, and I get great information that helps me enjoy my real life. Not to mention part of my daily laughs come from here too.

Cheers,

Rational. We're also spelling Nazis.

Bren R.

It seems people like this are all over the internet and it is not only Axiom. Believe it or not, and one can read this for themselves, but on the "Secrets" website they were reviewing the latest rendition of the Yamaha Blu-ray player and the reviewer stated in his conclusions that for the money Yamaha was asking, a buyer would probably be better served by taking the equivalent and buy the Oppo BDP93 instead. They almost immediately got responses from individuals stating the review was unfair and Secrets was just a "mouthpiece" for Oppo because they advertised on their site. Never mind the fact that the latest Oppo players have been probably the most widely reviewed in the history of the planet along with the very positive outcomes they have received. These people also actually believed that these reviews were destroying many retailers livelihood!

Of course the writer at Secrets had to respond by saying that from now on I guess the only equipment they could ever do reviews for that would satisfy these complainants was on equipment that never did or would advertise with the publication. Totally ridiculous and the beat goes on. I would hope, although democracy is fine, in my opinion, people like this should be shut down since they contribute nothing, raise animosity and the site gradually loses its credibility. Just look at Audioholics and AVS, prime examples of this kind of nonsense.

This is just my though.

I read forums in french and english language.
Not about one brand but all just by curiosity.

There are peoples who buy a product feel happy and never look back nothing new.
some will try to find something that could change the way they hear music from a sound reproduction system.
So they buy new products and sell old one.

It's a choice.

Other peoples will look at a brand topic and add comments about design,technics,everythings they would like to see implemented.
They can do it.

If engineers give on purpose tweacks for them will they buy products from this brand again ?
I dunno i'm not them.

Now you all explained it well
There is a big difference between bashing/trys to destroy a brand and learning audio experience by:
listening products.
Asking questions about experience with products.
looking for positive/negative strenght.
and giving/receive advices.

If i dig infos on blu-ray.com
it's leading to a silly talk-show.

It's really rare something like this happen.

People here have earned my friendship and respect by eloquently and joyfully sharing their experiences.

I like what Dan wrote.

I'm more interested in having fun than in "being right". There are so many things in life more important than arguing with angry people on the Internet. I'm going to spend my time and energy on positive relationships.

You are all dear to me and a valuable part of my daily life, as is the happiness I get from my various audio and video systems.

Kumbaya.

Now I'm Getting Verklempt.........

Trolls need to realize that everything they put out there on the 'net becomes public domain. It's one thing to say you don't like something, but entirely another to go all over forums/websites and put a company down at every opportunity. Many comments made are approaching slanderous, and there are lots of fingerprints if anyone/company wanted to do something about it.

Adrian, you forget... The internet allows complete anonymity, it's not like the forums track peoples IP address or anything......Oh, wait....

I'm with you Bren, this is the only audio/video or audio only forum I visit. I do visit a fishing forum but very seldom post, some of those characters are a little too red behind the neck even for my southern self.

Just putting this out there but JCB activity has been suspended by blu ray forum mods....sounds like some had a legitimate beef...although I do agree some have taken their remarks a bit to far and far to often...IMO

The thread over at AVS was just offically locked but you all might want to read what admin...(Dave Bott) has posted!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=21872498&postcount=130

I love it. Same guys on AVS as on Blu-Ray.com saying the same things. Getting a "public" (it really isn't public) forum backed into a corner being forced to make a decision. What a bunch of crap.

Incidentally, it was alleged that jcb is Axiom's own Jc. If true, his affiliation should probably have been disclosed.

OH, I started reading the AVS thread. I love how a few of those guys play off of each either. Pure-Evil saying blah blah blah, then good ol' GTPSuper comes in like he doesn't know what PE is talking about, but is going to "check it out". Well duh. GTP was a major 'contributor' of the trash talk. Of COURSE he knew what was going on.

As someone else posted there, a number of companies had employees on the forums, but most got fed up from the abuse and left. What a shame. You have someone with intimate knowledge of the company and product line, and they get so much bashing that the resource is no longer available.

And those guys think that they are "helping"...

the world would be such a better place if everyone assumed positive intent....until proven otherwise. but unfortunately, the opposite tends to happen.

i'll have to agree that company reps should identify themselves as such to eliminate the perception of them being paid to post praise for their employer. it keeps things on the up-and-up.

i have not ever been to the blu ray forum, and have no intention of doing so. it's hard enough keeping up with this one. at avs, i just monitor one thread that pertains to my projector.

Sadly, it was him and even more depressing, he did not disclose...at first. Later he did disclose, but it was way too late. The damage was done. Hence the reason he was suspended from blu-ray.

He tried to defend axiom and change the trolls minds, but got sucked in quickly. I applaud him for his dedication to the company he so much loves, but he should have known better IMHO.

Like I said in my opening post, it was everything I could do myself, not to post and defend axiom and slam those idiots. Somehow I resisted...

This has snowballed way out of control and this could do serious damage. 4000 views and hundreds of posts between 3 forums is not good for any company. I've been reading audio forums for over 10 years and I have never seen anything like this.

I just hope Axiom can step in and undo at least some of this...that avs thread needs removed completely. At least blu-ray deleted all those damaging posts. No ID company deserves that...

It's just my opinion all, but what the hell do I know. Just venting, this whole thing has pissed me off.

Agreed.

i don't think jc (on the Blu-Ray forums) would have been successful in changing the trolls' minds. they only want to do the most damage possible.
if they had been able to get all the experiment papers from Axiom, that would have fed them with more ammunition to criticize, as if they were expert designers.

they're there only to make trouble, and let's hope it's all finished as they've had severe warnings lately.

Yea, JC's situation was just too vague for a while. "Not on Axiom's payroll, but one of their experts and tech question answerer." is just too close for some people to say he is an employee.

I still defended and will defend against utter trolling and stupidity, but it wears on you after a while.

Yes, JC should have been more forthcoming. If this was intentional, he deserves censure. I hope, and prefer to believe, it was accidental, caused by inexperience in dealing with internet company haters and total disgust at watching this outrageous anti-axiom campaign by these few individuals.

We all can accept honest and fairly presented criticism and/or disagreement with design. That ain't what these guys are about. Any attempt on their part to be rational and fair is purely coincidental. They will insult and shout down anyone who dares oppose them.

They are out to get even and one can only hope that this is exposed by their ubiquitous, excessively negative, venomous presence in any and every thread referencing Axiom and their products.

I quit reading those loudspeaker forums a long time ago. I am now at peace with myself.

I'd like to make a suggestion about all the bad "press."

I once got into BIG trouble for something I said in a newspaper interview. It was taken out of context, but...damage done.

I asked my boss if I should call the writer, with whom I (thought) I had a good and regular relationship. She was always brilliant about this stuff. She told me NOT to call anyone for anything. If I were to be ASKED, state my poisition and have done with it (and, boy, was I asked).

So, I think (just me, IMHO and all that happy horseship) that having this thread exist, especially with this title, does not help at all.

If I were a new visitor who was shopping, I sure would notice THIS thread. It may introduce a doubt I hadn't had, especially if had not, nor was I going to go to those other sites. Even though everyone has been rather level-headed, writing responses that are mostly sane and logical, any response on this Forum has a greater than not chance of becoming detrimental.

In these instsances, if accusations do actually end up on your doorstep in a manilla envelope (they have not here), it's usually best to let the paparazzi snap you stepping over it on your way out the door and just keep smiling.

I don't really know what "Guests" online actually means, but 3 of them are reading this thread right now.

(Where the hell did I put my torch and pitchfork?!?)

I suspect that all this brohaha will also drive some traffic here. We all love to slow down to look at the accident.

One only hopes that the drivers buy will come to the conclusion that this is a harmless audio site occupied by a bunch of nutbars that like good sound and to have fun. Hmm... we are not the 99%?

Fred, that is such a great post and a positive outlook!

Thank you, made me feel better.

You are so right...even before I bought my Axioms I read different peoples opinions...both good and bad...so, I decided to buy some Q4's. I'm glad I did because I am in the process of switching speakers again, but the Q's are staying.

I come here daily for a chuckle and a smile. Its nice to be able to give back from time to time.

i see that they banned a member today at blu-ray.com having to deal with the axiom thread there. wow, never thought this thing would go the distance. hopefully things will settle down and get back to normal discussions about all things axiom in a nice civil tone.

it's ok to disagree, just no need to be (really, really) nasty about it.

When was that?

I don't visit AVS regularly but it sure seems like this type of thing is closer to ordinary than not.

The opposite is why these forums are the only ones I've somewhat regularly stuck with over the years.

Now we see the source of at least some of the vitriol. (check the Advice forum)

I was an owner operator of a business in a Phoenix suburb for five years and can speak on that note. As being the owner, I dealt with City,State,and federal agencies, Vendors,CPA's,Customers,employees, and others.Papers had to be filed, Monies had to be payed, individuals had too be kept satisfied. These dealings are only some of what goes into contriving a good business model. Perceived value of product, and very good customer service is mandatory for any business competing for market share and wanting the chance to hang around.

Formally being in business I feel I'm qualified in making these next two statements. No salesman or business in this world can make someone buy something if they don't have a mind to do so. No perspective buyer is going to make a purchase from someone they don't like, or feels uncomfortable with, for whatever reason.



Most business that start out fail, as this was not the case with me, I elected to close my operation down for personal reasons. Now Axiom has been in business for over thirty years. Why has that been the case? Because they have obviously made a great deal of people very happy, with their product and their customer service, bottom line, end of sentence, period.



In the end a business can only survive with the results it supplies to it's customer base. No illusions, no faultily spoken words will be enough.

When it comes to all those NAA Sayers, and bomb throwers they should be respectfully rebuked as to an opinion other than their own. I know this may be more difficult for some(keeping a cool head)but please read the quote under my signature line as it might just put a smile on your face.

Well said, Gary.

I second that. Well said, Gary!

Sign up over there and put your story in the thread. More positive will cancel the negative. I did and everyone here should as well. WE HAVE IAN's BACK dont we?

Let's not go overboard, though. Stay positive.

I'll be doing that on Blu-Ray forum whenever feasible.

Absoulutely, all i said was how much i liked how my system sounds to me. Check it out.

I posted over at blue ray form.. Jball made a ridiculous comparison between 2 products, trying to prove that axioms were not as good as other more expensive manufactures....

I'm still laughing at your post dak! That was excellent!

Welcome......

DDuval opened a thread on our forum about this situation. Please allow me to comment as follows:

1. Ian - you always rise above this type of nonsense, and will do so again.
2. The restraint shown on the Axiom forum is to be lauded.
3. Richeydog's post was quoted because for close to a decade now, he has had the best avatars.

Hey everyone, Craigsub stopped in to say hi!

Hi Craig!

Hey guys, thanks for the warm welcome. We are just getting ready to head for a family vacation. It will be interesting to see where this all ends up when we return.

Howdy Craig.

Vacation!?! You have work to do.

Nice to see you, Craig.

Thanks for dropping in Craig, you should do so more often and I agree, Richeydog does indeed have great avatars.