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As mentioned in another thread, I'm considering using an AVR as a pre/pro, with a separate external amplifier for 7.1 sound. My HT use will probably be 50% movies and 40% gaming, so I just need some extra headroom for the occasional loud passages/effects. I don't want/need to pay a lot extra for subtle differences in sound (*COUGH* tube amps *COUGH*). My media room will probably be around 3500 cu ft, but I don't listen to things THAT loud.

My initial thought is the Yamaha RX-V659 paired with the 7-channel Emotiva LPA-1 (125 WPC in 8 ohms, 225 WPC into 4 ohms). Since the 659 probably has enough power to drive the surrounds (possibly even the center speaker, too), I'm now trying to find a 2-channel or 3-channel amp, since I may not need all the power that the LPA-1 provides. Since the LPA-1 is $500, I'm looking for something that costs less than that; otherwise, I'd just get LPA-1. Any recs? Thanks.

I think you'll be hard pressed to find a much better option, but some people have had very good luck with the Onkyo M-282, available from Vanns for $200.

You might also consider buying a nice, used piece through Audiogon or Ebay. Frankly, I'll be surprised if a mid-priced AVR does not provide what you need all by itself. I'd get the Yamaha (or whatever) first, and then decide if you have a decibel deficiency.

I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as most around these parts regarding amplifiers but if I were a betting man I'd say that you may be hard pressed to find any decent multichannel amplifier for under $500 (new), but you can probably find something used.

Have you looked at the Outlaw 2200 Mono Blocks? A couple of folks here have them and give very good reviews.

Check out ADCOM.COM. They have great amps, that aren't very expensive. They also have a trade in program, where you send them old equipment and they give you a discount.

Also try Audiogon.com They have used audio/video equipment from many great brands.

Sweet! I just went to the ADCOM web site and they have a new refurbished product link! There is a good price on a five channel amp!

I think the only way you will get a better price would be to try a Pro Amp. I have never tried one so I have no idea what the results would be.

I think the LPA-1 would be a fine choice. Keep in mind that if you are using 7 channels in your HT, the amp delivers only 50 watts a piece to channels 6 and 7... I still think that would be enough power to drive the surround backs, so I don't see that as a problem.

I know there are some other Marantz lovers who occasionslly post on the forum, but in my mind, and for the "bang for the buck", I think you'd do well to consider this site. It sells Marantz units returned for some reason or other, some units totally new, all with a 1 year warranty, with the option of purchasing a 1 or 2 year extension on the warranty for a very reasonable addition. The new units come with a full 3 year warranty included in the price. I would highly recommend the SR 4600 (80W/ch, what I have) or the SR5600 (90W/ch), if you want to stay under $500. They come with a programmable remote that will easily replace the remotes you normally use for other stuff you use with the receiver, such as TV, DVD player, cable box, etc.

Just a thought.

Again.

Dennis, if you should need more than two extra channels of amplification, the LPA-1 would be a fine choice, as would be Tom's suggestion of the Marantz for two channels. The 659 should be excellent to buy at this time and neither of the separate amplifiers mentioned as supplements offer significantly more power per channel. The key word above, however, is "need"; try(the 659)before you buy(separate amplification). You may find that the 659 is entirely adequate for your needs; if not, then you can spend more money at that time, but a problem that may never develop shouldn't be assumed.

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I don't want/need to pay a lot extra for subtle differences in sound (*COUGH* tube amps *COUGH*)
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have you *COUGH* heard *COUGH* tube amps in your system?

Thanks for people's suggestions so far. I do plan on getting the RX-V659 first and try it in my system before deciding if I need a separate external amp. My concern about the 659 is that its specs show it consumes only 400 W as a whole unit. That's an average of less than 60 W per channel. On the other hand, the Emotiva's specs states that it consumes up to 1200 W, so I don't worry about it hitting 125 W on each channel. I realize that not all the channels will need that much power all the time, though that's still a significant difference in power. I won't know until my house is finished whether I need that difference.

I'm also still trying to decide between the M60's vs. M80's. If I do go with the M80's, I'd like to have lots of power to feed them; otherwise, what would be the point in getting them?

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My concern about the 659 is that its specs show it consumes only 400 W as a whole unit. That's an average of less than 60 W per channel. On the other hand, the Emotiva's specs states that it consumes up to 1200 W, so I don't worry about it hitting 125 W on each channel

The consumtion rating of a unit has nothing to do with the power rating.

>>My concern about the 659 is that its specs show it consumes only 400 W as a whole unit. That's an average of less than 60 W per channel.

Audioholics.com did a review on this budget RX-V659 reciever and discoverered that it delivers MORE than the 100wpc rating that Yamaha gave it. It actually delivers 120wpc all channels driven.

In short, the RX-V659 is a helluva deal.

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My concern about the 659 is that its specs show it consumes only 400 W as a whole unit. That's an average of less than 60 W per channel. On the other hand, the Emotiva's specs states that it consumes up to 1200 W, so I don't worry about it hitting 125 W on each channel

The consumtion rating of a unit has nothing to do with the power rating.

Really? I figured that the consumption rating is the ceiling of the possible output from the receiver. The actual amount to the speakers is less than that due to powering the circuitry and generated heat. Am I missing something? I assume it's not possible for an AVR/amp to output more power than it consumes ...

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>>My concern about the 659 is that its specs show it consumes only 400 W as a whole unit. That's an average of less than 60 W per channel.

Audioholics.com did a review on this budget RX-V659 reciever and discoverered that it delivers MORE than the 100wpc rating that Yamaha gave it. It actually delivers 120wpc all channels driven.

In short, the RX-V659 is a helluva deal.

I agree the at the RX-V659 is a great deal, that's why it's my top choice currently. However, it does not do 120wpc ALL CHANNELS driven. If you look at the last page of the Audioholics review, the 120wpc is for 2 channels.

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My concern about the 659 is that its specs show it consumes only 400 W as a whole unit. That's an average of less than 60 W per channel. On the other hand, the Emotiva's specs states that it consumes up to 1200 W, so I don't worry about it hitting 125 W on each channel

The consumtion rating of a unit has nothing to do with the power rating.

Really? I figured that the consumption rating is the ceiling of the possible output from the receiver. The actual amount to the speakers is less than that due to powering the circuitry and generated heat. Am I missing something? I assume it's not possible for an AVR/amp to output more power than it consumes ...

It happens all the time. Take the Rotel RB 1080 for instance. It's consumption rating is 550 watts but it is rated 330 x 2 watts @ 4 ohm. The same goes for the RMB 1095 a 5 channel amp, its consumption rating is 1200 watts but can produce 330 per channel.

I'll let someone better suited to explain why, you reading this JonhK

Okay, Dennis, the misunderstanding is over the fact that the 400 watt consumption rating is an average rating and isn't a rating at maximum power(and never is, unless it specifically says maximum or full power). The most commonly used consumption rating is one with all channels driven at 1/8th power(this is taken from a UL required test for overheating, lasting 30 continuous minutes), which is very roughly the average power that would be used in playing a CD. While the usual class AB amplifiers are about 50% efficient at full power, efficiency continually drops off at lower power and is around 20% at 1/8th power. For example, a 7x100 watt unit operated at 1/8th power would put out a little under 90 watts total, and at around 20% efficiency would consume 400-450 watts in doing so. So, there's no inconsistency between seven 100 watt channels and a 400 watt consumption rating, although those not familiar with the consumption rating sometimes loudly claim that this is impossible and is evidence of fraud.

As Audioholics among others has made clear, an all-channels driven test is a torture test which can be done in the lab, but doesn't represent a realistic scenario for home use. The basic two-channels driven required by the FTC for a power rating is more realistic. The 659 and other similar units has plenty of power for the vast majority of home setups.

John, thanks for the very informative post. So, if I'm trying to add up the total power draw of my components in order to determine if I'm overloading my circuit (or to determine if I need an additional circuit), what value should I use for the 659? 700W?

Dennis, don't even try to add up the power draws; there're too many variables. However, in theory, if all seven channels would put out 100 watts(extremely unlikely in the real world, even momentarily)the power consumption at about 50% efficiency would be around 1400 watts. The average figure is about the closest approach to reality.