Best place to find Denon / Yamaha on line??

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My 'replacement' 745 has seven issues with it and HK is sending me yet another 'replacement'. I've had enough though. My 20 year marriage with HK products is finished. This next 'replacement' will be going up for sale as an un-opened box. I'm not bitter, just disappointed. HK used to have a great product. It would seam that something has happened to their QA over the past few years.

So now I'm considering the following two AVR's because they have the HDMI audio processing and bass management I need:

Yamaha 2700
Denon 4306

I don't need or even want video processing, but it looks as if I'm stuck with it to get HDMI Lossless-PCM multi channel audio processing. I can not find any pre / pro's that have this either.....I've looked.

Buying local is not an option for me so I'm looking on the net to find an on line authorized dealer. So far all that I've found sell at MSRP. With all the problems I've had with HK, I will only buy from an authorized dealer.

I've not ever owned Yamaha or Denon, so I don't really know where to look. Any other places??

I bought my 3910 here with no problems Dakmart and they are authorized.

You can also check this for Denon dealers Denon

Sorry to hear that, Mike.

I've had good experiences with both 6th ave and Vann's.

I don't know about Dakmart. Looks like they only sell refurbished units. I don't know about that....makes me a little nervous considering my luck with electronics.

All the listed Etailers on the Denon sight are asking MSRP, tha's just ridiculous.

I called another place, Hippo's, and they have some fair prices. I checked and they are authorized too.

Anyone know of any on-line Yamaha dealers?

Etronics is a great site for yamaha receivers online, and gets great reviews from the user base.

Here is the link for the RX-V2700 priced at $1099 USD.

Here is the Denon 4306 priced at $1599.99 USD.

Looks like shipping charges from Etronics to Alaska is $87.21 USD for 2nd day air. Hope this helps, Etronics looks to be a great site with awsome deals (So I have heard)

I almost bought the RX-V2600 from them (because they deliver to Canada) but the import taxes were way too much to justify. I ended up getting the RX-V659 (which I have yet to break out and use yet since I bought it in November!!! The day is coming soon!)

Have you considered the Elite VSX-84TSXI. It has 4 HDMI in, 1 out. Perhaps it doesn't do the processing you're looking for though...

I recently researched denon and yamaha and have some information concerning which models are more readily online.
there is also identical, and nearly identical models, that have 2 model numbers
here is a link to that post
hth
randy link to other post

Thank for the link Robb......

No, I haven't looked at Pioneer. I suppose I might as well seeing how I just want to use the receiver as a Pre / Pro.

Mike, you didn't fully describe the features that you want, but I gather that, because of your other equipment, you're not looking for full upscaling in the receiver. If so, the new Yamaha HTR-6090(nearly identical to the 1700 in the RXV series)may fit your requirements. J&R is a authorized internet dealer for the HTR series(disregard the price shown; click for the special price and they'll send you $699.99, and shipping to Alaska would run about $50).

John,

I believe that the amps used in the RX-V series are of higher quality. Although the HTR line has the same specs as the RX-V line on some models, I think the RX-V line has a higher quaity build and amps (I am only basing this on "what I have heard".

Thanks John.

To specify what I’m looking for…..

HDMI audio processing, not just switching. I need (want) something that will actually process the new lossless multi channel PCM audio streams off HD/DVD and Blue Ray players. All HDMI 1.1 audio supported receivers are “supposed” to be able to do this, but some just wont. My HK 745 for example is one of them that won’t. Even though HK says it will, it simply will not. Not just mine, but numerous other users have reported this and HK is denying it. I’ve given up on being their test mule as their tech support will not listen and I can’t get an HK engineer on the phone. Nuff said about that I reckon…..

I love the versatility of the HK’s audio set up. The individual channel set up, multiple X-over points, surround mode default settings, etc. Whatever I get has to have that same versatility.

One thing I’d really like to have is an OSD that will overlay onto an HD video stream (720P and higher). The HK will not and I don’t think the Denons will either. I’m not positive, but I believe the Yamaha 2700 will do this. I can not find in its manual any reference that it will not.

I have an external video processor (VP-50), so I do not need any video processing in the receiver or pre / pro. Whatever I get has to have a 1080P video bypass function. Not many will do this.

So far through my studying and reading of manuals, there are NO pre-amp / processors with the functions I’m looking for on the market with the exception of the Anthem D2 and AMV 50. Both of them also have integrated high end video processors and a hefty price tag. I’ve called NAD, Adcom, Lexicon and Rotel. None have what I need. And all of these pre/pro manufacturers all have the same thing to say about HDMI. “HDMI is still broke and we are waiting for the next version of 1.3 before we get serious about incorporating it into our equipment”…. I can’t say I blame them either.

So far, only the 2700 and the 4306 (and higher model demons) have what I’m looking for.

I’m not all that concerned with power as I plan to go with an external amp(s) as needed.

Mike, it appears that you have reached the bleeding edge.

Yea on my denon all aspects of the OSD do not work with all resolutions. I havent completely decoded the manual yet, but the ability to quickly check the status or bump up the volume of a given channel is an overlay, and is restricted to certain resolutions and video input constraints. I have Denon 2807

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One thing I’d really like to have is an OSD that will overlay onto an HD video stream (720P and higher). The HK will not and I don’t think the Denons will either. I’m not positive, but I believe the Yamaha 2700 will do this. I can not find in its manual any reference that it will not.

Quote:

Mike, it appears that you have reached the bleeding edge.

Yah, I know. It wasn't by choice that I'm looking either. I was perfectly content with my HK 7300 which had NO HDMI capabilities. My 'great plan' was to sit back and wait a year or two and then upgrade. When my 7300 committed suicide and HK sent me this 745 ‘replacement’, I was forced into this current dilemma. But seeing how I'm here now, I might as well put my money where I'll have the least amount of buyers remorse that I know I'll inevitably have no matter what I get.....

Etronics has the 4306 for a great price http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=denavr4306b it's just that Denon won't honor the warranty because it was sold for less than MSRP. HOWEVER - Etronics has a 3 year extended warranty from MACK for $60 - still a >$500 savings and (I guess) an A-stock item as compared to Dakmart's B-stock WITH Denon warranty.
I ususly get the short end of the stick on things like this, but if the MACK warranty covers all that it says it covers, the difference will pay for a second set of QS8's. Just depends on how one looks at it.

Scott

Robb, everything that I've studied on this point(at least from sources that I consider to be relatively reliable)indicates that the amplification is essentially identical and that the differences are cosmetic and a relatively minor feature or two. In particular, Yamaha addresses this directly and distinctly in one of the informative FAQs here .

Quote:

the differences are cosmetic and a relatively minor feature or two. In particular, Yamaha addresses this directly and distinctly in one of the informative FAQs

I concur.

at one time I spent some time thinking about this.
I came to the conclusion that a company could manufacture on the same assembly line, and use different parts, possibly only ones with better tolerences, on this same line. they could even build them the same and assign the model numbers by lot according to spc quality data. There are endless possibilites i could never consider. they all have one thing in common. they all cost money.

What I dont believe could happen is for a company to build similar products, yet spend additional dollars on one subset of the products, yet not attempt to differentiate the products to the consumer. Where is the return on investment ?

Ultimately, I feel this is done to protect the high end retailer, whom the manufacturer has had a relationship with for years. It gives them a unique product, and keeps them from having to compete on price with the big box retailers. I have no doubt the high end retailer has greater expenses. For one thing he *should* have more knowledgable salespeople whom he compensates (commission) to retain their employment. I also believe that some of the same salespeople will find it necessary to provide a further differentiation of the products to keep food on the table. Not necessarily lying, for in fact the wattage is measured and quoted differently.

hth
Randy

quote:

the 4306 (and higher model demons)

Demonic indeed, Mike, but it may have what you're looking for. If by "multiple X-over points" you mean different frequency points for different speaker groups, the 2700 doesn't do that either.

Quote:

quote:

the 4306 (and higher model demons)

Demonic indeed, Mike, but it may have what you're looking for. If by "multiple X-over points" you mean different frequency points for different speaker groups, the 2700 doesn't do that either.

John,

Are your sure about that? I thought for sure that each channel was adjustable like the HK's. Not only that, but I was under the impression that the 2700 had a parametric EQ that could be tweaked differently for each channel. If your right, then the Yamaha's are definately off my shopping list.

I admit that I did not spend much time with the manual yet, and I tend to scan them anyway. One of those ADD traits I enjoy so much…. If you happen to be looking through the manual, can you tell me what page it is listed on for the channel adjust??? I’ve got four manuals open now on four windows and I’m bouncing back and forth between them.

I have also just added another AVR to my shopping list too! A brand I had not ever given a second look to. It’s a Marantz SR 8001. I’m speed reading its manual now. I’m pretty impressed so far…... Too impressed to believe it will do everything the manual says it will. Is Marantz a good line? I really don't know a thing about them. I always thought they were low end junk for some reason and can't even recall why I thought that.

MIke, take a close look at ecost and Denon's refurb units there. I've purchased from them twice (and 3 of my friends have also done so) and have been very satisfied.

I believe 12-18 mos ago there was a lengthy discussion here and several positive comments about the ecost experience. It's hard to ignore the pricing, especially when the problems in a unit have already been identified/fixed.

Thanks Ray, I will.

Dammit John, you were right. What do you do, read AV manuals as a hobby? The 2700 applies the same X-over to all speakers set to small. So does that Marantz. I might be stuck with the 4306.

Man, this is a tough call; all three units look to be excellent in their own rights, with their own negative attributes.

Yeah Mike, good that I've been watching the game and just got on. Otherwise I would have had to get back into the manual to give you the exact page(my memory isn't that good!)if you still needed it. As you noticed, the parametric equalization of course applies to each individual speaker, while the bass crossover is just a selection from the several frequencies listed and is applied to all speakers.

Since you're having so much fun reading manuals, note that the Onkyo 804 provides for different bass crossovers for the different speaker groups.

Mike, just another stray thought. I don't know of you have considered HK, but they have their own online refurb store.

Lol, half the stuff in their refurb store probably came from Mike

Mike, I'm not exactly sure of all the criteria you are looking for in a receiver but the specs on the 4306 and 3806 are very similar with the 3806 being about 700.00 cheaper.

Thanks HD.

Two more manuals digested……I’m about sick of reading manuals BTW. I picked a bad time to quit drinking booze. I should have got all this figured out first cuzz I could really use a stiff drink about now. The 3806 is about the same as the 4306. It has multi X-over points for each channel too. That’s good news. I’ve found that the 80’s blend a little better with a lower X-over than the rest of the speakers. I’d really hate to loose that feature. I think I’ve become a complete audio geek…..

The 4306 has USB, Ethernet / PC interface, and I-pod interface of some sort that the 3806 doesn’t. I couldn’t care less about all that crap. My HT is for movies, not ripped music or looking at pictures off a memory stick. The only real drawback is the 3806 only has two HDMI inputs verses the 4306 which has 3 HDMI inputs. I’d prefer three for my three HDMI sources. If my friggin VP-50 worked right I could run all that into it and have one HDMI input into the receiver…..but as my luck with electronics would have it, the VP has intermittent audio drop outs so I need to run everything through the receiver first. Suppose I better figure out if that third port is worth $700. I’m thinking not. I’d rather spend that on a case of Cakebread’s Cab..

John,

User reports that I’ve been reading are not all that great with the Onkyo getting along with HDMI. Multi channel 96/24 PCM from the HD / BR players in particular. There really aren’t that many that do from what I’ve been able to read, so that’s not necessarily a bad thing to say about them. So far about the only AVR’s that seam to be doing well with this are the new Denons and the RX 1700 / 2700. The new Marantz AVR’s do fairly well with the PCM 5.1 96/24 streams, but they will not do any PLIIx or other post 6/7 channel processing. The Denons apparently will and the Yamaha’s will also, but they down mix it to 48/24 before post processing, which pretty much defeats the whole benefit of 96/24 in the first place.

I really have become an audio geek.

For what it's worth, I picked up the 2700 over Christmas in advance of my axioms showing up (which just did) and I've been playing with the HDMI and other functions. At first I couldn't get 1080p passthrough working - only the component connection from my Wii would feed and pass on over HDMI. However after some rearranging of gear, whatever dropout that was happening with my stubby cables (3 foot seemed so much longer when I ordered them!) were being stretched cleared up and now it's working flawlessly. I haven't noticed any degredation in picture quality for what it's worth. While I'd rather have hooked everything up directly to my new Samsung, it wasn't workable with only 2 HDMI inputs on the set and 3 (with more to come

) HDMI sources.

Also, you mentioned the ability to handle PCM audio over HDMI I think. It does do this if I you're asking the question I think you are (and I was before).

I'm sure you already found it, but AVS has a good thread going on the 1700 and 2700: AVS 1700/2700

Finally...I'm sure you can find cheaper places, but I bought my 2700 from ABT electronics out of Chicago. I emailed them wondering if they'd offer a discount since I was looking to buy my Samsung 6188 and the 2700. The request ended up in the hands of corporate sales and the woman I worked with was excellent. Throughout the process she stressed that if I had any problems at all to call her directly and she would get them fixed now. Including soaking up return shipping costs etc.

The fact that I saved $350 from the web listed MSRP on the 2700 and got the 6188 for $150 less than anywhere else reputable I could find on the web felt like a bonus. The overall service alone would have been nearly worth it after some of the horror stories I've read elsewhere.

Wow, long winded. Hope it helps. As you can tell I'm a big fan of the 2700 and I won't begin to tap it's potential till the rest of my axioms show up. If you have questions, let me know. The impact will probably seem less for you since you apparently had "nice" gear before.

Good luck.

Nick