Ok, I know this is an audio forum, but I own axioms so I figure I can post this question. I have to post here because there is no way to get a clear answer from individuals on avs. They love their projectors. So. Getting to the question. I have finally decided to get a projector, but have been waiting for the 1080p projectors to come to a normal price point. My budget is still toward the lower end, but depending on what is said. I could do something else. WAIT and buy later. I would like to know who on this board have these projectors and can compare them to what they had previously. Are the new projectors better to the naked eye or are last years just as good? Is last years epson as sharp as the ae 2000 or sanyo? Heck for that matter how does the last years ae1000 (panasonic) stack up against them. I can't tell you how many reviews I have read and how many horror stories I have read about projectors exploding the bulb WAAAYY early or having breakdowns too early. Overall I would just like to hear everyone's experiences with projectors and their feelings about the difference in picture quality compared to previous models. The reason for the three listed is they seem to be the ones that I have read the most about. Deciding on which projector to buy has got to be the most nerve racking experience I have ever had. It seems I read a great review, then a horror story about how one has all sorts of problems. That is why I came to this board. I figure most people here would give me honest opinions that I can use. So all of your help would be wonderful. thanks in advance.
Oh, my room is 26 x 10 x 7.5 coverted basement with no windows. THE CAVE!!! It will be mounted about 18ft back or could be a couple feet closer if I had too.
Thanks
Interesting question. I don't know how many 1st hand reviews you will get here as I don't think many people have anything above 720p, myself included. Sirquack may have some insights as he did at least a little looking at the Z2000 as an upgrade from his Z2.
I am sure that you know about it, but Projector Central is great resource for information.
Here are some links for everyone:
Sanyo Z2000Specs Review Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 1080 Specs Review Panasonic PT-AE2000U Specs Review
Thanks, yea I do read those websites everyday. I almost hate waiting for the next review to show up. It is just frustrating. First I worry that the new projectors won't make me as happy as my old 720 hitachi ultravision 65s500 but I WANT the movie experience with the big screen. I believe I can safely do a 100 inch or 106 screen. I plan on watching hd dvd and hd sat and blu ray down the line. I got the a2 for 98 at walmart. The picture is amazing. Anyway,I want the picture to be sharp clear and colors correct and the blacks to be black and not gray. In other words I want the picture to look how it is supposed to look. My tv right now does that and I would hate to have buyers remorse and have a product that won't satisfy what I am looking for.
I was also going to recommend PC's website, Nick beat me to it...I have the Z2 (4yrs old or so) and over the air HD stuff looks amazing. Even standard DVD's over my HTPC at 720 resolution look amazing.
The contrast on the newer Z5 (720p) and Z2000(1080p) are like 10times better than my Z2. I guess we can't tell you if you will like a projected image over a LCD or Plasma, but for me it is all about having a movie theater in my home. We never go out to movies anymore, why would you, unless you can't wait until the DVD's come out.
I am going to wait until the Z2000 or other 1080p projectors come down some more before I get the bug.
I picked up a 1080p projector this past summer (Mitsubishi HC5000) with a 106” screen. After much research, I came to the conclusion that at any given price point you would be hard pressed to notice any difference in the brands. They all have their own strengthens and weaknesses which you would never notice unless you tested them side by side.
I agree with what Randy said. I've looked into upgrading my Z2 with a 1080p this Christmas, but I've decided to wait until the prices drop. I'll be watching HD-DVDs and Bluray from my HTPC, it still looks good in 720p.
I can’t comment on the projectors you listed, but I’ve got the PT1000U. It replaced the PT900U. When I swapped the 900 out for the 1000, at first I was kind of disappointed. There was an immediate improvement, but it just wasn’t as much of an improvement as I was hoping for. Resolution is better, but not significantly so. Where I did see a marked improvement was in regards to color, contrast, lumens and improved blacks.
I have recently been trying my hand at display calibration. I am using Calman V3 software and an Eye-1 pro meter. After about three solid days of figuring out gamma curves, color space and temps, I was able to dial the projector in to as close to perfect as one could expect. I have since learned that this projector is one of the easiest to calibrate (I don’t think I’ll be doing display calibration for a living). You do not have to go into the service panel to adjust gamma, primary and secondary colors. It also has a very simple to use wave form monitor that will allow you to set contrast and brightness perfectly. No other projectors that I am aware of (at this price point) is as adjustable as the 1000.
Another thing about the 1000 is that it just works….. It is not finicky with different resolutions, formats, frame rates, PAL/NSTM, or other HDMI components. The damn thing just works without any bugs or quirks. If you follow the owner’s threads at AVS, pretty much all the projectors have weird issues that owners bitch about. You don’t see that with the 1000. Complaints are far and few between.
If you’re wondering how the picture compares to the rest of the 1080P units out there, sorry, I don’t know….. I have only seen mine. I will tell you that the image is nothing short of eye candy when you pop in a good BR or HD disk. When folks come over for the first time they just stare like zombies….. I have a few friends who no longer go to the movies. They wait unit I get the disk on BR or HD so they can watch the movie at my house.
Where I would like to see an improvement is the ANSI contrast ratio. After I calibrated the projector to the HD 709 color spec at a D65 temp, ANSI C/R was a measly 130/1. On / off was 1200/1, but the ANSI sucks. I think this is what you should look at. Don’t pay attention to opinions based on what users think is a good picture, but look at actual 709 and D65 calibration results of each unit. They don’t lie and they don’t have opinions. They are just numbers, but important numbers to be looking at. After a projector is properly calibrated to these standards, those 20,000/1 contrast ratio numbers that are printed on the box get popped. Those great numbers are obtained by measuring the unit with the lamp on high (which no one uses) and in dynamic mode (which blows out the high lights, shadow detail, color spec and color temp). It usually takes a combination of filters, increased contrast, lowered brightness, tweaked gamma and primary RGB adjustments to bring the image in line with true color specifications. After you do all that, the display is typically operating with a heck of a handicap and those rated numbers no longer hold water.
Knowing what I know today, if I were looking for a new projector, I’d probably go with the Panasonic 2000. While the JVC RS1 gets touted as the contrast king, it also comes with a lot of baggage. The stupid thing is twice the cost of the Panasonic, and its predecessor (RS1) has too many odd problems that I wouldn’t care to deal with. The RS2 may prove to be a better machine than the RS1, but I just don’t think the price is justified, considering how well the Panasonic performs.
Thanks for the reply. So where do I find these measurements? As you know most of the reviews done on these things hardly use numbers, most are opinion based for the most part with little use of figures. Also I know what 65 color temp is, but what is 709. How do I learn about that? I myself have been interested in learning how to calibrate, but from what I have read from you I am not sure if I have a degree able to understand it. So if I understand you correctly the increase in resolution from 720 wasn't the most important jump. It was the picture quality of color and other factors? Everybody preaches pixels, but is it not as important as it sounds? I just want to be able to see the most clear and sharp picture possible. I don't want to feel as if I have to focus the thing. If I can get a beautiful picture and not have to pay 1000 extra to get it that would be wonderful. I find myself wanting 1080p but if it sounds like other factors are more important. Are there 720 projectors that give a better all around picture for less?
Rec 709 is just a color standard for HD sources that, in simply speak, could be considered a reference that a calibrator tries to match when adjusting the three primaries colors. There are three different colors (red, green, blue) and they are all adjusted to accurately display the total grey scale between white and black.
If you really want to read up on calibration some, Calman (calmantv.com) has a great beginner’s tutorial. It takes a few reads, but after the second or third time, the pieces fall together.
Even though there isn’t a substantial difference between 720 and 1080 in regards to resolution, I’d still go 1080P over 720P. Marantz and Sim2 make phenomenal 720 projectors, but boy are they spendy…. +10,000. If you go 1080, you will be able to use 1080P/24 off BR/HD disks, which is quite a treat. Otherwise, you are stuck with a de-interlaced and downscaled image sourced from 1080i.
It’s hard to find actual data off these projectors. It’s out there though, just keep looking. A good source is some of the calibration forums. You can usually do a search on a particular projector and see what the pro’s are getting. Unfortunately, I think you’re out of luck finding much on the projectors you’re looking at. They’re too new.
Other things to be looking at is projector noise (noisy projectors are distracting), how much lens shift they have (both vertical and horizontal), whether they will V-stretch HD image in case you decide to with a scope screen, warrantee, cost of replacement bulbs (some are $600 and up)… and a few other things I’m not thinking of right now.
Thanks alot for the info. I will read up on that. It sounds interesting and may help me out. So in your opinion you would go with the 1080p and do you think I would notice a difference between any of the current new 1080p units or last years? IS the difference between a panny 2000 THAT much better than say the cheaper sanyo z2000 or the older cheaper epson1080 home? If you don't think there would be I would just get the cheaper of the three.
I know nothing about the Sanyo. I chose the 1000 over the Epson because the Epson is noisy and my projector is mounted directly over my head.
I have been trying real hard to not read up on the new projectors, especially the 2000 because I don’t need a new one, but knowing myself, if I start reading, I’ll buy something (how's that for comma use). What I will say is what little I have head about the 2000 has me very curious. They have made some improvements over the 1000. Considering the improvements and the fact that it’s HDMI 1.3, I’d go with it over the 1000. Prices on these things are pretty good now. (at least $1000 lower than when the 1000 first came out). You’ll probably want HDMI 1.3. It supports deep color, which doesn’t say much because it’s doubtful we’ll see that any time soon on disks, but one other advantage that 1.3 has over 1.1 is auto lip sync. Even though it is an audio perk, I suspect the display will have to be 1.3 as well as the source and the audio processor to establish a link. I read a blurb in my Denon 3808 manual that IF the display is 1.3, auto lip sync could be enabled. I haven't played with it yet, but that does give me some cocern. I am sensitive to lip sync and was looking foward to this new auto lip sync function.
OK, I purchased a 61" LCOS over a year ago and for a while was thinking of just using my old reliable CRT downstairs in the entertainment unit and putting a screen over it that I could pull down for movies.
During my months of research I had it narrowed down to the Panny AE900 and then the 1000 was just coming out. My projection TV is JVC, but for a projector I would go with the panasonic. Picture was outstanding, contrast was great and the reliability and customer satasfaction with owners on digitalhome.ca was solid.
At one time Cannondale bikes had the highest brand loyalty in their market. Meaning Cannondale owners almost always bought another Cannondale as their next bike. Panny projector owners seemed the same and to me that means they are doing something right.
good luck