Right now I have a LG 37LB5D, Oppo 981HD and a set of logitech computer speakers connected to the dvd player. So I'm upgrading to my first serious setup. On the advice of a friend I ordered a pair of M22s, a vp100 and a pair of the QS4s. I've also ordered a Yamaha RX-V663. I want a SVSound sub, but I just can't decide which. I think I should get one of the cylinder shaped ones in the 325w class. As you can probably tell from my choice of speakers I have a fairly small room. I watch a lot of movies but I suspect once all this is hooked up I'll probably listen to more music. I suppose my question right now is simply how deep does my sub need to go. The different models are tuned down to 25, 20, and 16 hertz. Don't worry about WAF as there is no wife. ;-)

~Drew

Deeper is always better. In my humble, humble opinion.

Ken, he said "no wife".

Oh, wait.

3a, the cylinder subs are ginormous. Seriously, just get a decent box sub (Axiom, Hsu, SVS, etc.) and be happy. The new Axiom EP350v3 is getting pretty great reviews.

lolz

Whatever it ends up being there is really only one spot for it to go in my room. Luckily it should sound good there too. I figured the cylinder subs would go in that corner nicely. Right now I'm leaning toward the 2 smaller ones. I think the 46" tall one is just insane.

From what I remember the taller subs will play lower but with less output (not as loud). The middle sized one is usually a good compromise. I haven't heard any of the SVS subs, but I'm trying to go off of memory when I was researching things a few years ago.

Of course, if you're in a small room any output is pretty loud.

If you plan on movies only, SVS is a fine choice. However, you may tire of it for music. I say may because I've only heard the 12-NSD and even though it had fantastic slam, I grew tired of the boom boom for music. The 350 on the other hand is a very musical sub. In your small space, the 350 will offer you tremendous presence for movies and well-blended bass for music. To give you an idea, I listened to the 350 in my 4,000 cubic foot space (which opens up to the rest of my house) and found it to be more satisfying than my EP600 for music. For movies, it didn't have the presence of the 600 but then again, look at the kind of space that I was working with.

Even though my place is small I really like it. I do however want a place that is a little bit bigger when I move so I wanted the system to be able to scale. I figured when I moved I could add the other 2 channels for a 7.1 system and maybe add a nice amp and use the RX-V663 as a pre/pro.

Does anyone know if a TV that has HDMI in will pass the audio stream on to the optical/coaxial digital outputs? I've been asking around but no one seems to know.

That i'm not sure about either, but typically a device that outputs HDMI video also has alternate audio connections that you can split to your receiver at the same time.

Nope on the HDMI sound passing. It has to do with DHCP.

Why do you want to pass the sound through your display?

The Yamaha only has 2 HDMI inputs while my tv has three so I thought I might be able to connect it to have 4 total and audio going through the receiver. I suppose if I need more HDMI inputs for the receiver in the future I'll have to get a switch. Right now I can only see needing 2. One for a Bluray player and one for my dvd player.

This upgrade is all the fault of my decision to get a pair of Shure SE310s during a deployment. Those little things are amazing. Something like 110db signal to noise. I don't know how deep they go but I've noticed deep bass lines in songs that I didn't know were even there before.

I guess I should get the middle sized sub so I can trade some of the power that I don't really need for longer extension. I don't remember the exact dimensions of my living room but I'd put it somewhere between 1500 and 2000cuft. I think this really should be an impressive setup.

Does anyone have any suggestions or info on speaker break in? I read somewhere that someone's new SVS didn't sound very good at first but after a week or two it became much more musical and the extension lengthened a bit.

That someone probably got used to the sound of the SVS after a week. There is a good article on speaker "break-in" from Audioholics and I will paste an informative excerpt from that article:

"Required break in time for the common spider-diaphragm-surround is typically on the order of 10s of seconds and is a one-off proposition, not requiring repetition. Once broken in, the driver should measure/perform as do its siblings, within usual unit-to-unit parameter tolerances.

Probably the most common approach used by manufacturers who purposely take the time to break in raw drivers is to apply a sine wave signal, at a frequency equivalent to the unit's free air resonance, delivered at amplitude sufficient to thoroughly stretch out the spider, without damaging the unit, of course

An alternate approach referred to in the literature is the use of broad band noise. However, this approach is inefficient when compared to the sine- wave-at-free-air-resonance approach.

Break in, however, isn't necessarily a discrete step, purpose built in to the driver or loudspeaker system manufacture process. Does that mean loudspeaker systems produced by a manufacturer that doesn't break in the drivers require breaking in by the consumer? No, not necessarily.

Quite often, spider break in occurs when the driver is tested, before and/or after placement in the cabinet for which it's intended. Driver testing by signal stimulus at some point (or points) in the manufacturing process - if done at levels sufficient to break in the spider - generally makes further break in unnecessary. Hence, a finished system will not - in so far as its drivers are concerned - require further break in by a consumer once taken home from the dealer."

There have been many flaming wars in many forums about speaker break-in. Perhaps someone from Axiom can provide an expert opinion on the topic, but my understanding is that most speakers would have been broken-in well into the first musical track you play on them. Some manufacturers probably talk about a break-in period on the order of days to weeks. I wonder if this is less based on science and more on a profit-based motive as some customers will eventually acclimate and accept the sound of their speakers.

John

I fly RC helos and in that world there is a definate break in period on the batteries. For the first few cycles you don't want to work the batteries too hard but in this case it sounds as if you just need to connect the speakers and enjoy them. The sub on the other hand I had figured that maybe the components are a little stiff initially being that they are much larger and need a little exercise before they start to really sound good. I figure I'll just connect it all up and start the concert. :-D

speakers and/or subs don't break in, your brain is what is getting used to the change, at least that is what the manufaturers will tell you.

Speaker (no matter how big or small) characteristics do change over time. Sophisticated instrumentation and careful testing proves this. Does it make any difference to your ears? The answer is absolutely not!

Time, maybe 15-20 years down the road your speakers may lose some resiliance. I highly doubt there is any break in period from when the speakers arrive at your door and you first turn them on before you can start enjoying them to their full benefit.

In fact, my 80's Pioneers sound the same as the day I bought them, but of course I'm sure my brain is broken in.

Ah, I hadn't thought of that. I am trying to do everything through my htpc, so I don't need lots of hdmi inputs. The 663 is at the top of my list right now.

Most people in the industry will tell you its your ears that are breaking in to the new sound, not the speakers breaking in, a few will tell you it is the speakers.

Take your pick.

AS I have said a few times on here, speaker break-in suggests wear and if there is enough audible wear in a few short hours, then I wouldn't want to that speaker after 5 years of use.

I currently own the PB12-NSD, the one Mojo mentioned, and it hits pretty hard and is definitll hard to blend with the M80 for music, for HT it is awesome. I am waiting for the PB13 Ultra and am hoping it will blend a little nicer for music, by all reviews it should. Unfortunately the dealer up here has a 4 week waiting list

Jason,

Who's the dealer?

I just noticed SVS isn't shipping anything as far as I can tell until 15APR so I guess I might have my speakers by then and I'll get to see how they sound without a sub. Should also give me a lot of time to decide which sub to get.

If you want all your speakers to look the same, get an Axiom sub.

I've had the opportunity to listen to a PCi 20-39. In my opinion this sub is ok for HT, but I didn't care for how it sounded listening to music.

DG. Can you give us some detail? This is one of the subs I wanted to look at.

danmagicman7 did a big review including a faceoff between the Hsu STF-2 and SVS PCi 16-46, with photos.

STF vs PCi

That SVS really is BIG (five drawer dresser high, same footprint as 10" box sub).

Where is Dan?

And where is Mary (SonicFox)?

Are these members pulling a Mojo on us ?

By the way, Mojo, I wanted to ask how the working out was going. I hope you're still making time for it. Like, put weights on your fingers while you're typing up new posts here.

Didn't Dan go to China to study or something?

Charles, the working out is going great. Thanks for asking. I've gained 10 pounds .

I was surprised to find this out but then I realized that my clothes are fitting looser in some spots than others. So I am gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time. I'm going to let up on the weights though and focus on cardio more as I don't want to bulk up.

Yeah, Dan did go to China but I know that they have internets there too unless he's at a Budhist temple .

Good to hear the working out is working out. I've focused only on cardio. I should consider weights at some point, but my job is almost entirely picking up and moving stuff around, so I don't have much motivation to do that when I'm off. But I'm pleased with the progress I've made for toning up my muscles. I'm still 17 lbs lighter than I was, and I seem to be maintaining, so yeah, obviously I've just lost a good deal of fat and gained a little bit of muscle.

Ooh, Dan should bring back a monk as a souvenir... because human smuggling is always funny?

The problem with doing just cardio and no weights is that one may end up looking like a stick figure. I fortunately don't have that problem because under my 70 pounds of fat lies an incredibly muscular physique just waiting to be unveiled .

Talking about China, I almost went there after Grade 12 to compete in tournament fighting. The coin came up heads so I went to university instead.

Thanks for that link Doormat. I missed that thread somehow.

You mean that instead of "as an engineer" you could have been prefacing your replies with "as someone who will crush you"?

LOL. No, I am not very big at all actually. Although my son thinks I am but he's only 11 . Now Jason on the other hand...he's a real Hulkster.

Hulkster? thanks, but not so much any more, have lost alot of muscle mass over the last 15 years, which is what prompted me(that and my 2 sons) to get back into shape a few years ago but being 40+ now, Father time is making it much more difficult to recover from hard work outs, that and the fact I only get about 5 hrs of sleep a night doesn't help either.

I would recommend to both of you to continue the weights and use lighter weights but much higher reps(20ish) to keep the upper body in tune with the lower as most cardio focuses on the legs. The higher reps and lighter weights will pretty much eliminate any bulking up. It is true heavy weights lower reps does cause you to bulk up, but you want to gain muscle as it burns more calories than fat does, which makes it easier to stay leaner.

I usually hit the weights 2-3 times week and 15-30 min of cardio AFTER the weights and on the non weight days do 30-60 min of cardio. I haven't done much of any of this since I passed out at work and gave myself a concussion from the face plant into the concrete in January and had a bad cough for a month or 2 leading up to the loss of consciousness. I was then diagnosed with pneumonia at the hospital while they stitched up my head(only 4 stitches I was very lucky).

I did my first 2 miles in about 6 months yesterday and ended up coughing for the rest of the day. I will try again tomorrow.

That's good advice. Thanks.

Well based on a review I saw on here I decided to change my order to a pair of QS8s instead of the QS4s. The guy also said my order would ship 1APR. I'm kinda wondering if he was just messing with me since he said April fools day...

Since my speaker should arrive "soon" I suppose it's time for some n00b questions.

First off, I'm going to use bananas on the receiver end of the speaker wires as there isn't much room for a direct connection so my question is should I cover the bananas with heatshrink to prevent any shorting or other accidents?

Second, is there an "optimal" height for your tv/screen? I like where mine is now but if I want to place my vp100 below it I need to raise it an inch or two.

You shouldn't need to put extra shrink around the bananas. Just make sure the bananas are secure. I have some like these and they don't fit all that snug. The ones that flange out are more secure.

I like the TV at eye level. If it's too high it gets fatiguing to constantly look up.

A couple of inches higher should not matter, optimal is whatever you find comfortable.

I got the ones from monoprice. I was going to use some RC style high current ones but I couldn't find just the connectors for the ones I really like. These are similar...



It's funny that since I got the ipod dock for my receiver I've been listening to my ipod more than I watch tv these days.

I read somewhere that about one third of your TV screen should be below eye level. That seems about right to me. Whatever looks good to you.

I was just curious what the "experts" thought. Been looking at subs again and noticed that the SVS PB-10NSD actually has a better response graph than the 20-39pci and it's cheaper to boot. Can anyone think of a reason not to go with the PB-10?

Oh yeah and I wouldn't have to wait till the 15th to order it...

Order it try it out and if you don't like it send it back. I have the PB12-NSD and the pounding it is capable of is great for HT, but the more I listen to music the more the thump annoys me. It hits a little to hard, I would suspect the 10 to not hit as hard. It really is up to you as some people really enjoy the extra hard hits with music, just not me.

After looking around a lot more I decided on the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus. I figure I can "pull the plug" if the deep bass gets to me. It looks as if it's actually more accurate than the SVS subs as far as a flat frequency response goes. With the plug installed it's +/-2db 18-180hz. I think it's a really good deal for $550 shipped. Might go nice with their new pre/pro whenever they release it. One of the reasons I was so interested in the svs cylinder designs is that they're down firing. Somehow that just really seems like a good design to me. This one is a down firing sub as well so that was another reason to like it.

My speakers showed up this morning Heard a pounding on the door while I was in te shower Of course knowing it was the fedex man I ran to the door nearly killing myself to catch him before he left with my speakers. Supposedly my sub is out there somewhere on another fedex truck out for delivery. Should be a fun weekend. Time for some lunch and some wiring

Yippee!!!

Sweet!
When we moved into our new house the first thing I unboxed were the new Axioms and my old receiver and CD player. Not another box got moved in until I had some tunes going.

WOOT!!! Sub arrived in teh BIG fedex truck. Outlaw Audio REALLY knows how to pack a sub. Axiom did a pretty good job too on the little bookshelfs as well but I've never seen anything packaged so well. Anywho, so far everything sounds great. I want to get a nice jazz SACD or two to impress the ladies with (am I right CV? ) and to show off the system but I'm not entirely sure what to get. I think I'm really gonna like this setup. The Outlaw sub seems to have the right mix of music and punch so far. "When the levee breaks" by A Perfect Circle sounds great.

I still need to pick up AVIA II and a SPL meter but YPAO seems to have done a pretty good job so far.

Ha ha, I don't know if you're right. I haven't actually had any luck with the ladies. I'm very good at the daydreaming, though.

Proto,

I suggest Oscar Peterson: We Get Requests.

This is an exceptionally well-recorded CD. On my system, the soundstage extends well-beyond the speaker boundaries in stereo mode and sounds even "larger" in PLIIx. When in PLIIx, I like listening to this one with a phantom center.

It seems my VP100 has a damaged driver. I was wondering what difference there is between the vp150 and vp100. If it will make the center have a bit more oomph I might upgrade while I'm at it.

Other than the distortion from the left driver in the vp100 everything sounds great and I definately recommend the outlaw audio LFM-1 Plus for anyone on a budget. Took me a while to figure out how to get the sub to sound good but I think I figured it out. I need the volume on the sub around 4 (out of 10) and then the amp can handle it from there.